>sag aftra back into the negotiating table >The union says

>>379697154
Probably because the west isn't stupid enough to pay high money for the same voices over and over.

>>379697154
Because Jap voice actors are overpaid.

>Annual income

holy shit animators in kamikazeville must be walking skellys

thats only the top who have 20 main roles on the same year

>>379697154
I wasn't looking closely at the graph and thought the stacks of money were upside down cups of ice cream.

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>>379697154
Because japanese VA also have to attend events, sing and dance.
And the number on that list is something someone like HanaKana would make, most of them are struggling to even survive like pic related and I wouldn't be surprised if Zuka started doing JAV out of desperation..

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>>379697917
>I wouldn't be surprised if Zuka started doing JAV out of desperation

>>379697154
How the fuck is the cost of living so low in japan that you can survive on less than 10k?

>>379697917

Yeah that picture is highly misleading. VA's don't earn anything special. The "A-list VA" in that picture refers to a hugely popular idol/singer who makes all that cash from concerts/singles/albums and doing opening/ending/insert songs for the anime. The VA work itself doesn't pay all that much.

>>379698157
don't they outsource the animation out to korea?

>>379697154
the standards for japanese VAs are much higher
and they do more than just voice video games

>>379698352
How the fuck is the cost of living so low in korea that they can survive on less than 10k?

Also, that really makes J-pan and K-rea seem like great places to vacation. I make more in 3 months than these nips do all year. Id be a high-rolling god.

They take their cartoons much more seriously in Japan

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>>379698157
>>379698446
It's the same everywhere.

>>379698157
They don't. They work multiple jobs at the same time. It's a huge problem with the industry, it's not uncommon at all for entry level animators to work 3+ jobs, there is no room for a social life outside of work whatsoever and proper rest is out of the question. You slave away until you get good enough and have the necessary experience to be allowed to start doing keyanimation or charadesign.

>>379697154
>Why can't VA make as much as their japanese counterparts?
Because to be a successful VA in Japan you have to be able to do a hell of a lot more than just read of lines into a microphone. You need to be able to act, do events, and be incredibly meticulous about your lifestyle. They have an extremely public job and any misstep could end their career at the drop of a hat, they are very much all about that cult of personality, it's really nothing at all like being an English VA.

>>379700269
>They have an extremely public job and any misstep could end their career at the drop of a hat
>mfw the downfall of Emitsun

dont worry mina-san ill marry animator-chan and together we'll ganbare

>>379698769
Not really, their budgets suck ass and a good part of them sell at loss, not even kidding.
Animators are the ones who get fucked in the ass in that industry, like really damn hard.

Western cartoons have bigger budget and I don't see why they couldn't distribuite it better. Then again, they keep making money so why would they want to hire a no name voice actor instead of the same 3 actors they have.

>>379700823
>tfw you will never date an impoverished animator and make sure she eats enough to keep up her strength and also fuck her exhausted body

>>379698157
They work multiple jobs

>>379700974
western cartoons don't churn out a bajillion different shows per season unlike japan. thats probably why anime quality has gone down the shitter since the last 2 decades

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Because Jap VA needs to prostitute themselves.

>>379701178
>and also fuck her exhausted unconscious body

*

>>379697462
Troy Baker.

>>379701527
Troy Baker has a wide range of voices to be fair. He can pull of a perfect Patrick Warburton.

That's why he's in fucking everything, he's like 10 VAs.

>>379698157
The common animators are literally slave laborers. They are the lowest of the low, the guys that are fresh out of art school and have yet to get any experience or just straight up have no talent, there's statistics that say like 90% of them quit within the first couple months because it's just that grueling. Most studios have an incredibly high turnover rate because of that. Of course there is ones like KyoAni that treat theirs much better, but that's far from the norm and obviously they are super selective and don't pick up anyone but the best of the best to begin with.

>>379697154
>the ones who actually work to get the product made get paid the least
>the ones working maybe an hour on the project get the most

>>379697154
Because Japanese voice actors are actually good at their jobs and actually put effort into what they do?

>>379702349
>the ones who actually work to get the product made get paid the least
That's all the guys in the middle of that scale. Production, directors, inbetweens, keys, and the various other kinds of animators, and the countless other parties that aren't represented on that chart.
The common animators that get fuck all are the ones doing all menial tasks that require little skill like using the paint bucket tool.

>>379697154
This is why anime died and nu-anime is all poorly animated, self-deprecation, bad on purpose deconstruction schlock

>>379697154
>i make more than a fucking chief animator
>dropped out of college and barely have my HS

well shit

>>379697154
A-list Jap VAs are superstars who usually have record labels.

Most English VAs, especially dub ones, are dogshit second rate actors who were too ugly or shit for Hollywood.

>>379699017
>you make around19k working at fucking walmart

>>379703851
Unless you're a manager, no, they pay you dirt minimum wage. In some states that's below $15k

>>379697154
>College Student as a profession
>17k
wot?

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>>379697917
>I wouldn't be surprised if Zuka started doing JAV out of desperation..
I wouldn't be surprised if there was pictorial evidence in the form of erotic doujinshi of it.

>>379701657
Moving the goalpost that much eh?

>>379698157
They can hardly even survive. Animators live in sweatshop dorms or capsule hotel tier mini-apartments.

>>379701398
Japan has a shitload of different animation companies, that's why you see so much "variety".
And by variety I mean shows with different titles since their content is mostly copypasted and an imitation of what was popular recently.

Only 3 or 4 studios are actually high budget anyway while the others at best need to rely on music companies to back them up because they're the ones who basically pay for popular VAs, since in exchange they get to advertise their CDs.

>It's a "weebs defend Japanese voice actors despite all of them sounding like old men, 15 year old boys, or little girls" episode
Not that it's any better across the pond but this "you have no idea how talented they are!" nonsense is laughable

>>379704031
Partly student support, partly her working part time as an information source and writer

>>379697917
>I wouldn't be surprised if Zuka started doing JAV out of desperation..
hoshii

>>379704031
shes just doing it to put herself through college, as soon as she graduates shes going legit

>>379697154
American VA are not worth shit, that's why.

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>you will never chill with diesel-chan and let her taste your salty d

>>379704257
It has nothing to do with whether they are "more talented" or "sound better" or anything of sorts.
Fact is you won't find a single high grade JP VA that doesn't star in movies or makes music, and does regular events of all kinds, be it in person meet and greets or variety show shenanigans. It's completely incomparable to what the job entails here in the west.
A good VA is a product in and itself over in Japan, nobody buys merchandise of a show or game just because Troy Baker is in it, while shitloads of franchises are carried basically in their entirety by their cast over in Japan.

>>379700787
>read her lovelive wiki
>not allowed to be filmed arm wrestling

The west has close to 0 good female VAs.

>>379705563
ashley burch

>>379705792
Well apperently she's good enough to voice Main Characters

>>379704813
>Fact is you won't find a single high grade JP VA that doesn't star in movies or makes music, and does regular events of all kinds
Wait does this mean that average looking people with good voices are out of luck?

>everyone else spends 18 hour work days, sleeps under their desk, to get shit done
>egotistical slut walks in and says "not in my butthole onii-chan!", walks out bitching that they deserve more money an hour later

>>379706519

there are some pretty homely VAs

hell even in hollywood there are some downright ugly movie stars

>>379706519
If you have enough charm and the right connections, not necessarily. There's definitely an appeal in being down to earth and homely that can be sold.

>>379706519
>Wait does this mean that average looking people with good voices are out of luck?
Average looking people can be made to look good. Plenty of seiyuu looked even below average before they made it big.
However, if you're actually ugly then you'll have a hard time.

>>379706526
>"not in my butthole onii-chan

which anime pls

>>379706519
>Wait does this mean that average looking people with good voices are out of luck?
No Sugita is ugly as fuck but he's insanely popular with fujos and homos.

Why the hell do CG animators get paid more than normal animators?

>>379697154
>Why can't VA make as much as their japanese counterparts?
Jap voice actors aren't acting school rejects.

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Voice actors already make second only to game directors.
The fact that they want to be paid MORE than the directors is what's sickening.

>>379697154
This was a good anime. S2 never.

>>379703765
That's not true at all, voice acting is it's own thing it's just that because of the way our media has evolved it's less prominent and the way you get value is different.

The actors for the simpsons for example are worth more than A-list JP voice actors could ever dream of.

>>379706519

There's plenty of non-idol VA's but the whole point of the discussion was about pay. The ones making the big bucks are the ones doing singing/merchandise etc. I mean older male VA's for example aren't naturally part of the whole franchise thing.

>>379706526
Her work is more important.

>>379707018
Now don't be rude western VAs can be good too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVrFBWT3gFM

>>379706882

It requires specialized knowledge of software compared to grunt in-between animation work.

>>379706837
Sugita isn't ugly though. Sure, he's no Adonis, but he looks pretty okay and a bit of make up does wonders.

>>379706882
That chart is somewhat misleading in that respect, "animator" refers to just the common generic artists that get picked up to learn the trade by doing grunt work right after graduating. Most of the more prominent and established animators don't work for just a single studio or company and pick up multiple projects at the same time so their actual income varies a shitload.

>>379707298
My god...
Could this... could this be... could this be true video game kino?

>>379698157
>>379698446
I live in Florida and I can survive on 10k a year. Its actually relatively easy. The problems come from the fact that I lie through my teeth to the government for food stamps because they fucking hate men and wont give me anything if I don't. I just don't buy shit I spend like 100usd a year of fun things like going out or buying a video game I also dont havea car and use public transportation. What I eat never changes because I buy only the cheapest stuff. Not everyone can live like me.

>>379697154
Don't you get tired from the constant samefagging and shilling of this topic?
No one cares, go to neogaf with this shit.

>>379707298
If we want to be really fair, Summoner Nights 6 had really bad JP VA too.
I almost wonder if the budget they were allocated for VA was like $30k so they offered it to high school and college kids looking for an internship.

>>379703851
You are assuming full time. The last time I worked at a Walmart they BANNED me from working anywhere else during my shift time and made it an immediately firerable offense. This is because they made shifts days in advance that lasted for only two or three days and called people in constantly. You don't work full time there you are lucky to get 20 hours and because the job market is so bad you cant fucking risk them fiering you because you need the money so bad so you never fucking do anything because god help you if they call you in and you cant make it.

>>379707927
>I don't know my rights

>>379708998
>USA
>working rights

>>379708998

I live in Florida bro. Its a right to work state. I watched them do it two times while I was there. Both for the same reason. Not being able to come into work twice.

>>379702349
This is why we just need to make it so that every employee gets a cut of the profits made.

>>379704031
I'm a college student and if you count all my loans and grants I technically make 15k a year without a job.

>>379709175
>>379709269
Christ. Being a burger sounds like suffering

>>379709580
But we have the RIGHT TO WORK laws. That keeps the union from taking out membership dues or focing me to join. I will walk right over the picket line because it is my RIGHT TO WORK. Overtime rules, minimum time between shifts, working conditions? Fuck you Hillary voter I have a RIGHT TO WORK 70 hours a week.

>>379697154
Because A-list Japanese VA's are forced into doing idolshit in order to make that much money.

>>379709580
"Right to work" means you have the right to work anywhere but the employer has the right to fire you. Even if they want to fire you fro something they technically cant like a health problem they can easily fire you anyways because they can just write down "Not cooperating with management" and use that excess. Its almost impossible to fight as well unless you find another manager to testify against the person that fired you but that puts them on the chopping block as well.

Walmart managers also get an extra 1k bonus at the end of every year for each employee they DON'T hire. So if your department needs 15 people to run correctly if they only hire 10 and just force them to make up the difference they get a nice 5k bonus for doing it. I worked as an unloader and we needed 32 people with 10 to 15 showing up each day depending on the volume to get shit done in the 4 hour time limit. We had like 18. Some days they would only have 5 people show up then bitched an moaned about ho it took us 8 hours to get the job done yet they just refused to hire more people.

>>379697154
They just need to change it to be a % based on total hours spent towards completing the project. You only work 4 hours a day? You get less than that guy who worked 12. Then pay out equally to everyone so the animator that put in 100000 hours gets way more than the Executive director that showed up once for an hours to yell at people to get the job done faster.

>>379710770
Then you just get people standing around for hours pretending to work.

>>379697154
>top guy still only makes 64K annually
Holy shit. This is why you get an engineering job. Because you'll never be a cute japanese voice actress.

>>379711046
Easily fixed with you know modern technology such as cameras. Companies don't want to pay people if they don't have to and will lock down that shit hard.

This is honestly one of the best alternatives there is because it gives incentive to work and do your most yet allows those that need a break for whatever reason or can only work the standard 8 hour shift to stay productive and get paid fairly.

>>379710770
that's supposed to be the point of hourly wages. the issue is that the people deciding pay who own the capital decide what the actual hourly pay rate is. That means joe game designer busting his ass in the basement could not possibly work enough hours to approach the salary of upper management or a ceo. unless you want more enforced parity in salary among employees. If you actually believe that, welcome to liberalism. I'll grab you my spare pair of Bernie Sanders underoos.

>>379704096
No, don't be retarded. Troy Baker has a decent range. Many Japanese voice actors don't. That was the entire point of the original comment.

>>379711667
Then you just "look over" reports or have meetings and the like all day. You severely overestimate how much businesses monitor their employees.

>>379711694
Bro. I believe in basic income because I understand that technology is rapidly putting people of of jobs and for some people they just don't have the skills or ability to find work anymore but believe they have the right to live a comfortable modern lifestyle.

I also understand its a pipe dream because current politics wont let that happen because we don't care about the "American dream" or "honest day's work" any more. In this way the government could actually do something that could help.

>>379710770
Yes, someone sweeping floors for 8 hours a day should totally earn the same money as the guys making million dollar deals in the building he keeps clean. They put the same amount of time in after all.
You are absolutely retarded if you think a shitty animator you can find thousands of replacements of deserves the same kind of compensation as someone that spent years working and polishing his skills until he climbed up the ranks to director and is directly responsible for the entire production.

That's an absolutely retarded stance and would lead to nothing but utter stagnation and lack of progress. Talent and hard work gets rewarded, it's the very cornerstone that got humanity this far in the first place.

>>379712424
>Yes, someone sweeping floors for 8 hours a day should totally earn the same money as the guys making million dollar deals in the building he keeps clean. They put the same amount of time in after all.

I unironically completely agree.

>>379712141
i'm actually not really sure what you're trying to say here. can you expand a little bit on what you're talking about when you say "basic income"? i'm just out of the loop on your definition of that term and i don't want to shoot my mouth off and look like a big idiot talking about something you aren't referring to.

>>379697550
HAHAHAHA

You fucking people are so deluded, you do realize that "A-Lister" refers to a person that puts in over 10x the work of a top tier Hollywood actor for only 500K a year when their counterparts can make 5 million for a single movie. Just because it says "voice actor" doesn't mean that's all they do, an a-list VA in Japan is basically required to be an idol, which means day in and day out they will be doing radio shows, live events, meet and greets, TV appearances and more. A Hollywood actor can sit on their ass all day at their vacation home, occasionally going out to film a scene or visit some dick suck ceremony (there are like 10 variations of the fucking Oscars/Emmys now, fucking pieces of shit) or some party where they talk about how much better they are than everyone else. The only actors I have any respect for are the ones that don't use stunt doubles and are actually willing to play the part they were assigned.

>>379697154

fuck this shit, if it weren't for the animators, voice actors would not be able to do shit, sure, having good VAs is amazing but let's be honest here, recording your lines isn't as hard, demanding and time consuming as animating.

T. Angery animator

>>379712819
tl;dr you get given enough money to exist comfortably just for being there and you work for luxuries.

>>379712424
>Talent and hard work gets rewarded, it's the very cornerstone that got humanity this far in the first place.
Tesla and Edison

>>379710770
You sound like a commie.

>>379712819
>foodstamps for EVERYONE
A pipe dream.

>>379713135
>muh Tesla
yes, he was smarter than Edison, and yes, Edison was a cunt, but Tesla was also full blown mentally ill in a time period where mentally ill people were thrown into places worse than prisons and quarantined from society. It would have definitely panned out differently if the same thing had happened today with our advancements in mental health.

>>379712932
this is actually a pretty classic anti-union tactic. employers turn certain groups of employees, often ones who are really valuable and know it, against other employees who are trying to unionize. other game designers should understand that their talents afford them the same right to bargain with their employers for compensation if they want, and that VAs are in no way taking your piece of the pie. They just happen to have monetary and legal support from a nationalized union, which is how they're getting these negotiations done when game companies would probably laugh in their face otherwise.

>>379713006
do you feel that this is or is not provided in our current system? how do you think this can be fixed if you answered no to my first question?

>>379713215
Proper communists would slap his shit for talking like an entitled bitch.

>>379712707
Then everyone will become janitors.

>>379713323
This, it's fucking pathetic that people see people trying to improve their conditions and instead of going "hey, maybe I should do this too" they go "FUCK YOU I'M IN THIS SHIT! STOP TRYING TO GET OUT"

>>379713427
Maybe we need more people the clean in this world, most places are dirty as shit.

>>379697154
damn, i make more than an executive producer, japs have shit lives, no wonder they only have anime of high school life

>>379713445
you should try talking to some of the people trying to unionize grad students research and teaching assistants at universities. there are huge pay and funding gaps between different departments, and universities are more than happy to tell the well-paid science students that the poorer humanities students are planning to fuck them over once a union gets started to get more money.

>>379712819
>A basic income (also called basic income guarantee, Citizen's Income, unconditional basic income, universal basic income (UBI), or universal demogrant[2]) is a form of social security[3] in which all citizens or residents of a country regularly receive a regular, unconditional sum of money, either from a government or some other public institution, in addition to any income received from elsewhere.

Basically I want to get rid of food stamps and housing assistance and all that jazz and replace it with basic income. The government calculates say every 5 years the current cost of living in your area and includes basic thins like power garbage water phone internet housing and public transportation. Then they look at what job you have and matches the gap between your income and that number. So if they say you need 30k a year and you only work 18k you will get 1k a month updated accordingly if you lose your job. This keeps the economy working because to get it you need to have a job. It just makes it so at the bottom rung of society it now does not mater what job you have. If all you are offered is a janitor job you can take it without worrying about if you can pay for your home. That way no mater what happens you will always have food a place to live and basic entertainment to keep yourself sane. To accomplish this raise taxes across the board to everyone above that threshold including businesses.

My version doesn't match the standard definition of flat free money to everyone because I want to make it so the population doesn't abuse the system and just lazes on the couch sucking up money. You have to be working.

I also want to implement a government department of work. Make it illegal to hire anyone or fire anyone. Companies send the department the openings and the qualifications needed and the government matches people to that job. To fire people they have to give a detailed report of why that person is not meeting expectations or is not doing the job.

>>379713409
No, and the answer is pretty simple imo, negative interest rates. This keeps the money constantly cycling in the economy while allowing a degree of "saving up" in order to get something nice every now and then while also meaning that working to get something nice is still something doable and desirable. You get say 1600 dollars a month, you have a negative interest of 5% so you lose 80 dollars a month if you don't spend it going up. Unless you sit on 32000 you net gain passively. (these are just example figures, other people have done better more comprehensive ones)

>>379713302
>moving goalposts
Cunning cunts steal work from actual talented people.
World is unfair, fuck off.

>>379713771
many things are wrong with this
first off, why even work unless you make over the "basic" level? You will still be making 30K regardless of the level of effort if you are below that line. Also, not being able to fire someone, that's called being in a union, and those people are lazy fucking shits who should be shot. It's a nice gesture but anyone with any form of tenure will inevitably abuse it, human nature is not anywhere near as good as you seem to think it is, they will do everything they can to take advantage of any situation they can in most cases, particularly the people that fit inside your target bracket.
>>379714071
nobody is arguing that.

>>379713771
>more bureaucracy
goddamnno.tiff

>>379713771
How do you deal with the skill gap between jobs?

Let's say you know a skill that nets you a 32k job.

Why does the janitor get his wage bumped to 30k?

This is my only gripe when it comes shit like minimum wage increases. But what do I know, I work hard labor and play vidya all day.

>>379714071
Business is also a talent goy i mean anon.

>>379714229
any real skill that isn't a joke to obtain will get you at least 60k

>>379713135
Tesla was talented in science. Edison was talented in making business deals.

>>379713771
>I also want to implement a government department of work. Make it illegal to hire anyone or fire anyone. Companies send the department the openings and the qualifications needed and the government matches people to that job. To fire people they have to give a detailed report of why that person is not meeting expectations or is not doing the job.
This is one of reasons USSR collapsed, JFYI.

>>379714229
First answer, who gives a shit, low skill workers need to eat too there literally only so many "skilled" jobs so what anyone who gets there too late is shit out of luck?

If you want to do something you find more fulfilling, go learn that skill using the money you are given and go do it. Enjoy your work.

>>379714423
Teacher. That is currently the job with the highest difference between effort put in and pay, at least in murrica.

>>379713771
This reads like a dystopia inspired by Terry Gilliam's Brazil.

>>379713771
a lot of what you're describing is how the minimum wage is supposed to work in america, as well as regulations on hiring and firing practices.

the reason the minimum wage isn't working currently is because there's super strong resistance to raising it and because it only applies to full-time employees. many corporations like wal-mart specifically keep employees under the full-time limit to pay them less.

the reason firing restrictions aren't being enforced is because our government spends way too much time sucking corporate dick to take them to court when they lay off employees to improve their bottom line.

in general, your plan is also kind of similar to what they do in china. they aggressively employ individuals and give them set livable wages, hence why there's like 7 people stocking grocery store shelves in one store. america could technically work that way, but we'd have to curb technological advancement heavily. that's what china does, as many farmers in china can't use certain tractors.

basically your plan and the american government aren't at odds in ideology, they're at odds in willingness to enforce the law.

>>379714060
are you advocating for negative interest rates for the wealthy? if so, why not just tax them and then use the money to fund already existing government things like schools that are usually super understaffed?

>>379714546

You mean highschool and primary school teachers, i.e. glorified babysitters.

Teachers with actual skill, i.e. tertiary education, vocational training, etc., get paid a decent wage.

>>379714212
>Also, not being able to fire someone

You can you just cant do it yourself for any reason you need to prove the person is not doing the job. So if he is sleeping on the clock report it. Once it is clear that the person is not actually doing the job or is unable to they are removed. Its to prevent petty bullshit or favoritism. If a spot opens up only the best most qualified moves up even if everyone hates them.

>first off, why even work unless you make over the "basic" level?
What? Those you get paid more than the basic level have mor3e money periods for whatever they want. Those not working dont get ANYTHING. Only those who work are asured the basic level. Its to make it so that you don't have to worry if the only job you can get will be able to pay for a place to live. So we don't get situations like in silicon valley where the bus drivers sleep on buses because their income literally cant buy them the cheapest apartment.

>>379714226
There is nothing wrong with bureaucracy.

>>379714229
Read above for the reasons why it is needed. Not everyone can GET that skill. There is no reason why people should needlessly suffer because they are not as skilled. If they work and put in effort they should be allowed to live a modern lifestyle without fear that they could lose everything.

If you removed all the voice acting from every game I've ever played and replaced it with text, not only would it scarcely matter in all games but a handful, it would improve them in most of cases.
Voice actors do minimal work and don't deserve to be paid a higher wage, they're not Hollywood actors, they're not celebrities, their work isn't as strenuous as they like to make out.
Fuck these entitled babies.
Meanwhile the code monkeys who actually make the game and put in 12 hour shifts and do unpaid overtime and crunch to get the product out on time are treated like disposable sweatshop workers.
Fire all these voice actors and give their pay to the programmers.

>>379714669
Because it effects everyone, the point is this way the money will constantly be moving. It doesn't sit somewhere doing nothing, which is a huge growth retardant, IMF figures put it currently at every 1% of GDP that goes to the top 10% growth rate reduces by 0.04% meanwhile if it goes to the bottom 10% it goes up by 0.34% and the reason why is pretty simple, the constant movement of cash.

This isn't even some huge anti-capitalist thing because at the end of the day that money is going right back into the accounts of the people it left, the people getting the money will spend, they will buy more stuff so you lose the money then gain it back in increased economic activity.

>>379714229
By not caring? People should be able to survive plus have money for extra shit. I'm currently a developer earning around 90k a year. I guarantee you I put in less work and effort per day than a person doing stock at a retailer. I work around 5-6 hours a day, 2-3 hours of that being actual work getting done.

Plus people fail to understand that capitalism cannot survive if you don't have a large middle class. Without people having the ability to spend money and fuel the economy everything comes to a screeching halt as people begin to save money rather than put it back into circulation. Even worse, those people that save money end up losing all of it due to healthcare costs and it causes a centralization of consumers.

>>379714941
Sorry, miswording, "the people benefiting the most from the money they get"

>>379714801
not necessarily true. much of the teaching done in colleges is done by assistant professors and 3rd year graduate students. both of these groups get paid absolute dick relative to their skill level. assistant professors get paid under 60k and often have really insecure employment.

>>379714992
What if I think natural selection should still exist and people who are not capable or skilled enough to make enough to survive should just die?

>>379713771
>give whole country guaranteed money
>still build everything they buy in overseas sweatshops

It is quite unethical. A far better thing would be to bring these jobs back and force livable wages and good conditions costing no where near the price of UBI.

>>379714807
>There is nothing wrong with bureaucracy
I envy your optimism and trust to fellow human especially human in gov.

>>379714669
>many corporations like wal-mart specifically keep employees under the full-time limit to pay them less.

This will fix that problem. It removes that incentive. Why go though all that bullshit when you can just hire someone fulltime?

>basically your plan and the american government aren't at odds in ideology, they're at odds in willingness to enforce the law.
That is a whole different can of worms that means we need to remove the current government and start over. Any government that does not do what it is supposed to needs to be removed.

>america could technically work that way, but we'd have to curb technological advancement heavily.

Not at all. If its clear they cant work because of a lack of jobs they don't have to work. They system also sorts itself out because anyone that moves specifically to abuse the systems creates the need for new jobs where ever they move to. Also its really easy to spot. "Oh you moved to this random bumfuck town with no jobs? Ok please wait a year before you can get benefits"

>>379714669
I think the negative interest rate is intended to be an incentive to spend on investment in private business/stocks/precious commodities/real estate instead of leaving money in things like bonds. Which may already be happening, as some countries' interest rates have fallen to near zero and slightly below zero since the 2008 crash.

>Animators
>A dime a dozen
>Prolific voice actors that draw people in to your project
>Rare and selective
Wow I wonder why

>>379712932
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba55wWnEn3s

Honestly being an animator in Japan is fucking depressing, these guys don't sleep, work 10+ hours a day everyday and can barely even talk, yet still say that they prefer doing what they love over anything else.
Weebs will never admit it but the way the Japanese industry actively punishes and treats the guys that make entertainment it's fucking disgusting.

>>379697154
>westrash "Voice actors"

I wonder why they cant make as much as their japanese counterparts

>>379714941
I absolutely agree, I just don't think a negative interest rate is necessarily going to either be possible or get you what you want. there are a lot of considerations to what rich people will do with their money if stashing it here is net losing them money day-to-day. they'll either buy gold or send their money out of the country. this is why i prefer progressive taxes, since taxing income made in america is and effective way of forcing the wealthy to pay up for the money they made here and it can be later spent to fix serious problems and employ people.

>>379714807
>There is nothing wrong with bureaucracy.
T. someone who never lived in a former soviet state.
You marxists should really read up on what went on for regular people in the USSR, east germany, and China before they went capitalist.

>>379715207
I am fine with that as well but the corporations will never agree to it.

>>379715226
We wouldn't exist as we do today if humanity as a whole wasn't good natured and inclined to help and be good people.

>>379714992
>I'm currently a developer earning around 90k a year. I guarantee you I put in less work and effort per day than a person doing stock at a retailer.

Yes, and you worked to get there. There is billions of jobs and talentsets to get you said jobs around. If someone decides to not give a fuck, drop out of highschool, and never learn any real skills that would get them anywhere in life then that's completely on them. It was their choice.
If you put in the effort you can live comfortably just about anywhere in the civilized world, that's a cold, hard, fact. Just fucking about your entire life you shouldn't expect to be able to live in luxury and have loads of spending money, if that were the case what would be the fucking point of anything

>>379715389
What are you talking about? Based on relative income those trash taken off the streets are still making about as much as a B list; the difference between what A and B list seiyuu makes is absurd. B list have around the skill level or a little bit higher than a top paid western cartoon voice actor for a show like the Simpons or something where they would be making millions per year, while B listers make even less than that executive producer does. I'll say it again, I believe that they are making the correct amounts, which means that western actors as a whole are wildly overpaid assclowns. The same applies to athletes.

>>379715472
Yes, yes. Big gov do wonder in Soviet Union, Venezuela, and North Korea, right?

>>379715458
Bureaucracy is like any tool, you need to use it right. If the USSR had listened to Kantorovich back in the 60s the world would be a very different place.

>>379715440
Make it harder to move finance again. It was incredibly fucking difficult to do that shit in the 40s, make it that way again.

>>379715757
Venezuela only failed because of the oil crisis. There are many ways to proof against this type of thing. North Korea is a dictatorship where the majority has no voice as with the Soviet Union. People need to have the power to change things on their own. If the government is not working like the 51% want it to then it needs to be removed. The government needs to stay in a perpetual state of flux where ANY law can be changed by the majority. If opinions change or the economy changes or if there is ANY change the past should not hinder the present. If a law, department, public official is not needed it needs to be removed cleanly and efficiently.

>>379715178
Give me your adress i will show you "natural selection"

>>379716205
Thankfully, God has graced my area with very lax gun laws and perfectly legal enforcement of the "home is your castle" laws, so as long as an intruder does not step outside of your home around here you can really do whatever you want to them as long as they die before they leave. Want to play a game of pretend, anon?

>>379716102
Yeah, because nothing is better than living in a banana republic where the rule of law shifts every decade. Venezuela failed because they stepped in to regulate every single aspect of people's lives and realized that bureaucrats actually suck at planning people's lives they neither have the knowledge or nor care if they live.

>>379715482
You might be retarded m8. I didn't work to get here at all.

I barely graduated community college with a 2.0 GPA. Not just that but I've met a few friends through my work that were literally highschool dropouts that did a 6-month CS bootcamp and landed IT roles in the low-mid 60k, higher if they aimed for an actual SDE role.

I've seen people with actual PhDs whom devoted their entire life to their research and got shit for pay / reward. If you haven't realized yet, 'work' doesn't mean shit in terms of pay. It's all about luck and the only reason why I'm earning so much right now is because I took a gamble that if I had failed I would be bankrupt and still living with my parents.

>>379716102
There's just no basis for anything you're advocating here to ever work in reality.
Why wouldn't the 51% just vote to make it legal to kill the 49% that disagree with them?

A government with that little consistency is no government at all, just a shitty mob bullying anyone not in the 51%.

>>379713445

There's just too much bad blood between the working class and unions in the US. They have been blamed rightfully for inflation but ever since the US cracked down on unions the income of the average household has been going down rather than up.

>>379697154

soooooo executive producer gets to boink everyone down the chain?

>>379716102
Shit, you are dense.
Big gov is equal to put all the power to one basket, and if the one controlling the power is rotten everyone go to shitter. "Power corrupt" is not a meme as it has repeated over and over again across human history.
Also by "People" you mean the politicians, right?

All "good system" will always bottlenecked by the operators aka humans.

>>379715725
cringe

>>379716758
CS bootcamp actually works? I'm 26, been interested with programming for a while, still not sure if I should take the plunge.

>>379716663
>Yeah, because nothing is better than living in a banana republic where the rule of law shifts every decade. Venezuela failed because they stepped in to regulate every single aspect of people's lives and realized that bureaucrats actually suck at planning people's lives they neither have the knowledge or nor care if they live.

Venezuela is suffering because it's an export nation depending on one single commodity whose price has dropped catastrophically. What is happening there is no different than what's happening in other oil countries like the middle east nations, but nobody cares about the plight of poor people there since it doesn't fit the narrative that it's a left wing government shitting up there.

I'm no fan of undemocratic countries like Venezuela, but get your shit straight.

>>379716867
But inflation is fine, the only people who lose out in inflation are the banks. And fuck em.

>>379716758
Wow this is rare sight to see

>>379717339
They do work but you have to already be in a pretty hot tech area. Good networking and a good bootcamp can get you something decent at the bottom of the totempole.

I'll always recommend going to a community college instead though. It has less of the stigma, more opportunities to see what you enjoy and in general you'll learn at a cleaner pace. Plus it's far cheaper and usually you can transfer to a larger college.

>>379718647

It takes some financial knowledge to figure this out something that workers mostly don't bother with.

>>379697154
>sells one million units
>get 2 days pay
HAHAHAHAHA

>/v/ - Video Games

I mean, I'm happy you are actually discussing like adults without throwing random "cuck" and "SJW" at people. But still, this really proves that this board is just /pol/ with a vidya flavor and nobody cares to change that.

maybe wil wheaton, david hayter, and all the other whiny unemployed fags should attend meet and greets, get a singing career, work more than 3 days a year, and stop crying on twitter.
might make their paycheck a bit higher if they pull up their bootstraps and do some damn work.

>>379719276
yeah but if you explain the absolute basics anyone can get it.

>wages rise
>prices rise
>inflation happens
>my mortgage gets eaten away by this and I end up better off

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>>379697154
Shirobako was fun

>>379715289
Everyone has a voice, not everyone is talented enough to draw and animate.

Faggot.

>>379720337

If workers knew even the most basic shit about macroeconomy the Euro wouldn't be with us to this day.

>>379720542
The vast majority of voices are dogshit terrible, and even among the ones that have potential it takes a shitload of effort to actually get them to reach that potential. The animator definitely should not be making that little but voice acting/singing is actually not easy unless they are western VAs just talking their lines with no investment in the actual content.

>>379720614
The euro just needs to have an actual central bank which can act as a lender of last resort and more unified fiscal policy and it'll be fine. Which is what they're aiming for now.

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>>379712823

>You fucking people are so deluded, you do realize that "A-Lister" refers to a person that puts in over 10x the work of a top tier Hollywood actor for only 500K a year

>>379720487

First episodes were a clusterfuck

>>379720795

I'm pretty sure the ECB and the Bundestag already confirmed that they're staying the course just this week after Macron won. Don't bet on austerity ending soon.

>>379720996
they've already announced their plans throughout 2025.

Merkel is sticking to her guns ebcuase she'll change stance when negotiating the coalition contract with the SPD if she wins and that way she'll keep the right wing of her party placated.

>>379721139

Honestly I think the Euro is a dead end and I don't give it more than five years. Macron's victory gave the euro more time to breath but the upcoming italian elections will be the real test.

>>379721436
Nah, german popular opinion has shifted to euro-solidarity.

The germans will do something after their election, weather it's schultz or merkel.

>>379720886
>he doesn't know
why do you think they quit at such a young age usually? You notice there are a few who managed to make it a bit longer, so it's not like it's a rule that they have to quit, if they have the talent they can keep going as long as they want, they quit willingly because of how overpoweringly difficult their schedule is. It is no exaggeration to say that a top end A lister will be working at fan events 12-15 hours a day, and they do not get vacations, not even weekends off, they might sometimes get a national holiday off but usually they are doing a holiday event on those days too; they are even discouraged from taking off when they are sick.