>Everyone maligns any type of new control scheme when twin

not sure about trackpads being better, but otherwise I agree. Analog sticks are outdated ass, but since motion controls (along with many other alternate control schemes) have such a bad reputation now I don't think analog sticks will ever go away.

>>379401948
Have you tried the Steam controller?

Trackpads on it are amazing. Haptic feedback and better material makes all the difference in the world between Steam trackpads and the laptop trackpads you probably have in mind.

The shear number of things that the trackpads on SC can be used for is mind boggling. One minute it can be camera control, the next game its a button, the next game it's 20 buttons.

>>379402359
no I haven't, I don't know anyone that owns one and I haven't heard good things nor do I particularly need one over kb+m controls.

>>379402359
steam controller is fucking ass and you're retarded OP

>>379401858

What is this retardation

>>379401858
>Gyro is superior

The only non-mobile game to do Gyro right was BotW. Gyro is finally starting to show potential, but "superior" is a stretch.

>>379401858
When you say Circlepad, are you refering to what the 3DS has? Because that is without a doubt the worst form of analog movement I have ever had to use aside from touch controls.

Analog sticks are good for movement, but I think a trackball would probably be a huge improvement for camera controls.

>>379403140
I can literally bind gyro controls into any game on PC. I'm playing the bit.trip games like they play on the Wii but actually stable. I can just turn on gyro for any first person or third person game on steam, change no settings, and it'll work great just like that.

>>379403185
That's the literal worst example of a circle pad out there. It has no fucking grip.

Sliding motion of the circle pad>>>>Flopping motion of the analog stick in terms of accuracy

>>379403091
its just /pol/tendo dumb like always

>>379402874
They're honestly great. It's hard to picture why until it's in your hands and your putting it to use, though. It's less accurate than mouse for sure, it's a controller after all, but trackpad+gyro is miles above any stick controls ever conceived.
Nobody can make a better layout for you to play a game with than yourself.

>>379402982
t. autist who probably called analog sticks gimmicks during the 5th gen if he was alive for it.

>>379403286
What Gyro controller are you using for PC? Also, what exactly do you mean by this?

>>379403390
>Lets just smash buzzwords together and see what happens.

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>>379401858
>Gyro is superior

>>379403528
Steam Controller, only one I know of that does that.

>Also, what exactly do you mean by this?
Well, I dont know entirely what you mean by that so I'll try me best to answer.
It's not just BOTW with gyro controls (For one, Splatoon, and the Zelda remakes on 3ds and WiiU ), I can and have played a huge sample size of games with gyro controls. And I can attest to the fact that it's significantly more accurate than twin stick can possibly be.

Or, if you were asking about bit.trip. I'm binding the gyro controls to work like the motion controls did in the bit.trip Wii games on their PC ports.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHbg-sNqe4w

Like for this game, I raise my controller up and down and it's smoothly and really accurately moves the paddle up and down. You can fidget with the gyro setting to your hearts content.

>>379404026
Have you ever used gyro?

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>hurrdurr twin stickz ar lame!!!111

Fucking kill yourself

>>379404051
Oh, and I forgot about gravity rush 1 (dont know if 2 or remastered on the ps4 have gyro controls)

>>379404295
I used them on PS3/Wii/3DS/WiiU.
Not a big fan.

>>379404051
Well, you've said enough to peak my interest at least. I've never see a gyro controller that didn't have jitter out the ass though. And that will kill in more precision based games. Not because a twin stick is more precise, but because a twin stick can hold steady. Even in BotW it was hard to target super fine fines with Gyro.

But, now I have a reason to check out my Steam controller again.

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>>379404518
>PSmove
>Gyro
>The Wii
>Gyro

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Why don't we just replace sticks with trackballs?

>>379404701
PS3 controller actually had gyro, was pretty bad though and Killzone is the only game I can think of that used it well

>>379404840
I would love a controller with 1 stick and 1 trackball. I'm pretty sure no one else would.

>>379404701
I meant the sixaxis that's also built-in the Dualshock 3.
Didn't the Wiimotion+ had a gyroscope?

>>379404840
Because that's weird!!!

I like how a trackball + pressure sensitive dpad is obviously the best two controller inputs but they're Freaking Weird so people would be hesitant to try them.

>>379404574
I've had no problems with jitteryness using the gyro in any game so far.

Sensitivity settings and as much customization for gyro as possible needs to be the standard, makes a world of difference, one persons jittery is the next persons responsive, one persons steady is the next persons sluggish, I dont think BOTW or any other games I mentioned have that.

>>379404840
Trackballs lack the multi-functionality of the steam controller trackpads.

>>379404970
Oh shit, didn't know that.

It might have? Probably. But thats not really the type of gyro I'm talking about.

>>379405183
yea I actually don't mind the track pad, it's a pretty good replacement for the Trackpad.
The real problem I have is replicating a good movement device. Using the other trackpad is decent, but I actually don't even like the concept the joystick is using to control movement. I'd actually way rather use pressure to control it.

>>379403509
actually i bought the dual shock like the month it was released

motion/touch control is shit for anything but casual games

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>>379405317
I might have had me an idea

What if we put a trackpad on top of a kinda big circle pad?

>>379405463
>PS3 gyro
Come see what a decade of development has done for technology anon

>>379405627
the dual shock is the original ps1 pad you stupid 20 year old

>>379405282
Not sure if the gyro in the 3DS/WiiU is more like what you meant but I don't like it.

I haven't used a Steam Controller yet so I have no idea about that

>>379402982
objectively false

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>>379401858
>gyro is superior
I guess?

>>379401858
They're really not that bad anon, just don't go trying to play first person shooters without a mouse.

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Not a single one of those can even compare to a keyboard and mouse. And I refuse to consider them as good. They're not even close. It's a divide so wide that even gabe newell can fit through it.

>>379402359
I like the trackpad on the steam controller, but fuck that Dpad.
Seriously, that Dpad is fucking terrible.

>>379406314
>no analog movement
KB+M is great but it's not without fault.

>>379406410
Dpad works if you're pressing them to activate something like in an FPS or whatever. Using the dpads without alteration for platforming is shite.

What I do is put left and right on the "dpad" trackpad, and up and down on some other button. Doesn't work for everything but I've found it to be a good solution

>>379406465

Analog movement is trash.

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>>379406637
My fucking sides

Best controller:
Steam controller trackpad
DS4 analog stick
XB1 elite triggers and face buttons
WiiU Pro controller dpad

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>>379406465

>>379401858
Half a controller with an analog stick, analog trigger, and large amount of buttons combined with a mouse with a few side buttons would be perfect.

>>379406637
no it's not.
I've actually played Fortress Forever with flightstick and mouse and I got like a 4:1 KD with soldier.
it actually enabled me to do really subtle shit with bunny hopping movements.

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>>379401858
What is this a rip off from Nintendo?

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>>379407192
>flightstick reappropriation
my nigga. playing hammerwatch/other top-down dungeon crawlers with a flight stick is surprisingly fun, like an oldschool arcade game

>>379407245
Are you really supposed to use those arrows?
How can they be this dumb?

>>379407190
Maybe add pedals or buttons to the back. It's stupid that controllers only allow use of 2 fingers per hand. 3 if you're autistic.

>>379401858
I have a steam controller, it's a really cool piece of tech, has a suprisingly responsive gyro, the haptic feedback actually helps with feedback when I thought it was a marketing gimmick, and all in all it feels like a really good attempt at an evolution of controllers, but the only fucking problem is that it works properly in like 20% of games.

>>379405836
The gyro in the steam controller works just like it does on 3ds/Wii u. I really enjoy gyro controls on those consoles when used well, but to each his own I guess

>>379406726
>>379407192

>Shadowrun devs test out whether KBM or controller is better with their game
>KBM soundly annihilates the competition

>Overwatch allows KBM control on consoles
>devs promptly ban anyone who uses it because it's "cheating" apparently

>but controllers and analog are supposedly superior

Really activating my almonds.

>>379407623
Controllers aren't superior you over desfensive PCfat. Mouse and keyboard is the best option available. Mouse with analog movement would surpass it.

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>>379407562
Two things that the steam controller's gyro does well is that a) it's usually configured to only work when you're holding some kind of aim button, making it a fine-tuning mechanism instead of the primary means of aim and b) it becomes surprisingly more responsive when paired with haptics, it feels like instead of using a gyro you're steering the controller atop an actual mechanical pivot

>>379401858
Kid Icarus Uprising had essentially Mouse controls on a stylus. it worked well. I think the Wii Remote and the Mouse are much better than a joystick

>>379407529
When did you last use it? I've had mine for a month now and can count on one hand the number of games I've had trouble making work.

RTS and Twinstick are the only two things I've found issues with so far. And I have a decent setup now for Owlboy, it just took a while.

>>379407785
I prefer mapping gyro activation to it's own button. Sometimes I want one or the other on trackpad or gyro.

>>379407623
No one's dumb enough to argue that analog sticks are better for aiming, but for movement they offer much finer control than a keyboard.
Look at racing games for example.

>>379404840
I love my trackball mouse. Dunno how good it would be on a controller though.

>>379407735
>>379408037

KBM still dominates in those areas, and the reliability of keyboard hardware far surpasses analog movement, simply because of all the tools, buttons and binds available to you at any given moment. Analog is the lazy option for people who hate customization.

>>379408334
>KBM still dominates in those areas
In racing games?
No.

>>379407896
A couple months ago, probably. It works alright when you use the trackpad with stick emulation, but that defeats the purpose, pretty much making it a less ergonomic xbox/ps3/4 controller. Mouse emulation is the entire point, but a lot of games have issues with that.
>GTAV
>nearly impossible to navigate the weapon wheel
>registers random button presses sometimes because of mouse/xinput switching
>Resident Evil games
>a huge CONTROL INPUT DEVICE CHANGED TO KEYBOARD AND MOUSE / GAMEPAD warning pops out every second
I wanted to try it with Evil Within and Vanquish, but kinda forgot about it in the end.

>>379407623
Some games are better with KB+M and some are better with a controller. Stop being an autist.

>>379408334
>racing
>kbm domintaes
Didn't read further. Get the fuck out of here.

>>379408440
>>379408597
>>379408570

Sounds like someone hasn't unlocked the true potential of the KBM.

>>379407190
I actually used to play some segments of Saint's Row 2 with a controller in the left hand and a mouse in the right. Especially good for controlling a helicopter.

>>379408498
Anon thats just you being bad at configuring it. You need to know what games have dual input support and which ones dont. Depending on the game you'll either want to go full keyboard or full controller.

>Stick emulation
Literally why. Just use joystick mouse/mouse joystick (whichever emulates mouse movement in joystick games) and put an edge spin radius on it. It's the same basic principal with more functionality.

>>379408848
Sounds like somebody is a salty faggot who can't face the facts.
- Sent from my Das Keyboard Ultimate Cherry MX Brown Mechanical™

>>379409012

>Sounds like somebody is a salty faggot
okay man, look. You can have a different preference if you want, but please keep the homophobic slurs to /pol/.

>>379408950
>Stick emulation
>Literally why.
That's exactly what I've been saying.

>thats just you being bad at configuring it
No, that's just the games being bad at supporting simultaneous mouse/xinput input. Using the steam controller in full KBM mode or full xinput mode defeats its purpose, I've got a good keyboard and mouse and a DS4 for that.

everyone shut the fuck up, you're all idiots.

https://wooting.nl

analog keyboard. figure out a way to put per-key haptics in it, and there it is. the most superior controller until brain control.

>>379408858
That sounds nice, but the excess weight of the unused half of the controller seems a little inconvenient to hold with one hand.

>>379409482
This honestly sounds gimmicky and not too comfy. A keyboard key just doesn't have enough press distance for comfortable analog control. Also, all the technical problems and incompatibilities that could steam from it could be hell.

>>379409302
>No, that's just the games being bad at supporting simultaneous mouse/xinput input
The need for simultaneous input support didn't exist until the Steam Controller did. Its not ideal but it makes sense that devs have been slow on the uptake.

Unfortunately, combining analog movement with closer to mouse precision aiming was more of a happy side effect of the Steam Controller than the intended design. It's for playing KB+M games laid back.

Also Steam Controller will do anything the DS4 can do, but better and customizable

>>379409805
DualShock2 buttons barely traveled at all, and they worked fine in games that used the pressure-sensitive buttons.

>>379410005
>combining analog movement with closer to mouse precision aiming was more of a happy side effect of the Steam Controller than the intended design. It's for playing KB+M games laid back.
If that would the case, it wouldn't have the analog stick. I would actually prefer the earlier design with four buttons in its place for emulating laid-back KBM.

>Also Steam Controller will do anything the DS4 can do, but better and customizable
Anon please. They're different. For one thing, the steam controller doesn't have a d-pad and a right stick. And DS4 is literally just as customisable, it uses the exact same steam config utility that steam controller does.

>>379410098
>worked fine
Noooo. How many throats did you slit in MGS3? And in Ridge Racer, I always had to use an overlay which actually displayed the percentage of pressure, otherwise it was barely responsive.

>>379404317
Smash TV is only eight digital directions. OP is talking about analog sticks.

When you try to do a twin stick thing with full analog, it's an inaccurate mess. There are no inherit indicators as to where EXACTLY you're pointing the sticks as they are smooth featureless circles. Until you see the result on screen, you will almost always have to correct your stick deflection.
Try playing something like Helldivers without the laser sight attachment. With no on-screen aiming guide except the tiny soldier pointing his gun in a general direction, you have to shoot to see the exact angle at which you're shooting.

Analog sticks are so bad that almost all console shooters implement that awful aim assist and camera turning acceleration garbage that only makes the game feel worse and strips even more precise control away from you. Everyone knows that analog sticks are so bad that devs have to shove all of this hand-holding overcompensating crap in their games to make them not complete shit.

>>379402359
$0.02 has been deposited into your Steam account!

>>379410320
I'd like that as an option too. A Steam controller 2 should really come with easy interchangeable parts. Sometimes you just need a dpad. Sometimes my analog stick is literally useless.

>>379410752
I actually hate valve and Gabe and steam. But fuck me. It's such a nice controller.

>>379410769
In a perfect world, anon.

>>379407462
>>379407192
i use a flight stick as a handbrake on some raycin/car stuff. set its range to be .49 to 1, and you get to use it like a real one, its neat

>>379410752
That read pretty cringy, yeah, but the first time I used it, it definitely had a wow effect on me. Those haptics are really interesting and something I'd like to see more of. I only wish more games supported it fully.

>>379411034
That's fucking kinda neat actually

>>379409482
That actually looks pretty cool.
How easy is it to set up though?

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>>379410416
>How many throats did you slit in MGS3?
It worked fine for me and I played through that game several times.

>>379411406
apparently for a lot of games it works out of the box. console, for all their dragging of the industry, laid the groundwork for analog input across the board.

>>379403374
what else has used circle pads?

>>379411731
That's pretty neat.
At 270AUD I don't think I'll be buying it anytime soon but I'm definitely going to keep an eye on it.

>>379411406
It says it's plug and play. Probably works as a normal keyboard that way though. Says it needs the official config utility to set up advanced shit.

Since we're talking about the steam controller, which has a lot of problems stemming from the simultaneous feed of keyboard, mouse and analog input, I can only imagine how unstable this thing would be.

>>379412106
same for me ausbro. don't forget, no numpad. the second iteration might be the go.

>>379411641
In that case you're pretty good.

>>379412441
Who cares about numpads?

>>379413691
don't be like that.

>>379408334
Is this one of those "you keep using that word" things where the word is analog because so far you're only arguing that kb+m is superior to current analog controllers, which literally everyone already knows.

Analog movement would still be superior to digital movement if the two were designed with the same range of motion, sensitivity, and accessibility in mind but they never are.

>>379406410
steam controller doesn't have a d-pad

it has two stick replacements in the form of touchpads, and it has a stick in place of a d-pad
the stick is terrible, put a d-pad there, nobody wants a fucking stick

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>>379401858
>Gyro is superior, trackpads are superior, circle pads are superior

>>379414432
>it has two stick replacements in the form of touchpads, and it has a stick in place of a d-pad
No, it has one analog stick, a trackpad, and another shitty trackpad that's meant to replicate a Dpad.

>>379414563
the trackpads are functionally identical, they are meant to replace the sticks

why there is a stick in the place of the d-pad, we'll never know
it wasn't like that on the original design, they knew that people were wanting touchpads instead of sticks, so they had one of those shitty 4 button d-pads, but it wasn't a crapstick

>>379401858
>whatever you call what KI:U had was superior
KI:U played like and was shit.

>>379402359
the steam controller is a pile of shit.
waste of $30

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>>379414692
>the trackpads are functionally identical, they are meant to replace the sticks
No, they're not, what are you talking about?
You can literally see the Dpad design etched into the left-most trackpad.

>>379413691
I do.
I've also been thinking about getting a tenkeyless, a separate numpad board and placing it to the LEFT of the keyboard to make more space for the mouse.

>>379414692
Using the trackpad in place of a left stick for movement sounds pretty painful.

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>>379415032
i am talking about, how from the beginning, the trackpads were meant to replace sticks
and they do replace sticks

but for some reason a stick is in the d-pad position when it should not be

>>379415182
works on my hands

>>379409482
that's literally shit outside of the four buttons you'd need it for.

>>379415390
But the trackpad on the left doesn't actually function like the trackpad on the right.

>>379415535
yes it does

>>379413691
people who aren't console fucking retards and use their pc for what it's made to do, play games, program and do math. you dumb fuck.
seriously if youre not at least programming tiny quality of life apps for your pc youre a dumb faggot, go buy a nintendo switch TM.

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>>379403280
This actually sounds legit. I use a trackball for light gaming. It's not as good as a traditional mouse but it's way better than an analog stick. Once you get the flick down it's pretty alright.

Someone make this happen.

>>379415390
Workable, but still decidedly less comfortable than an actual stick.

>>379415603
i strongly disagree
but i didn't grow up with stick controls, n64's stick made me quit console gaming

>>379414692
>try to use left track pad, finger keeps getting caught in trench
what a great fucking design

>the autists who think traditional controls are the best controls getting upset and blown the fuck out itt
Glorious

>>379415413
so put analog on WASD, Q and E for lean, and maybe some others. it's still the best control method.

>>379415798
name one game that supports analog lean...

>>379415703
what? are you using an active stylus instead of your thumb or something?
you can barely feel the indentation, the haptics give you more feedback even though they give you almost zero feedback

>>379415593
>>379403280
>>379404939
I could get behind that.

>>379415697
Well I strongly disagree as well, having been an idort my entire life.

>>379401858
>I'm bad with sticks therefore sticks are bad.

>>379415535
What? Yes it does.

>>379415864
Name one non-newfag who unironically uses ellipses.

>>379415964
if you're used to trying other things, you should give that scheme a try
it's quite comfortable with no stick digging into your thumb

maybe it's just because my fingers have next to zero fat on them that sticks feel like a major issue

>>379415973
>He thinks sticks are good
Pity this faggot

>>379416078
t. guy buying a fucking gimmick keyboard for $200

>>379416078
name one non-retard who thinks games have analog lean.

>>379415864
you're retarded.

>controller opens up new dimensions for control
>hurr durr controller is retarded because no games use it yet

get raped

>>379416209
I did. It's unsuitable to quickly changing directions due to the size of the pad and the distance you need to go with your thumb.

>>379416293
>>379416413
Not even the same guy.

>game that supports analog lean
Arma

>>379416689
WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG
>>379416456
>yet
yeah games are going to cater to this gimmick keyboard in the next 25 years

>>379401858
>>379401948
>>379403140
>>379404026
>>379404295
>>379404701
>people unironically defending gyro

what in the FUCK is going on

>>379416575
yeah it takes a few hours to adjust
how many game playthroughs did you try it with?

it didn't feel right too right to me at first, but after going through ys 1 and ys 2 on nightmare, and a run of dark souls 1, i think it's an ideal input method
much less fatiguing than a stick is when you have to deal with rapid movements

>>379417342
>haha analog control? that's retarded. dpad is superior, like games would use analog direction ever.

>>379417492
gyro has been fine the whole time, the bad parts of waggle were tracking systems based on fixed point sensors

>>379417342
Wrong what? I saw with my own eyes a dude using trackIR to lean all over the place.

>>379415535
They're usually assigned certain functions due to their position and look different but both trackpads are capable of the exact same things, you can put a "dpad" on the right one with no dpad indent guide. You can put camera controls on the left pad. You just never really would.

>>379417718
trackir is digital you stupid fuck

>>379417492
I hated gyro before trying the steam controller. Low latency and actual feedback makes all the difference.
Waggle QTEs are cancer though.

>>379417518
>less fatiguing than a stick
>thumb has more travel distance and needs to hover in air for neutral input
Are you human?

>how many game playthroughs did you try it with?
Thankfully none, I have several regular controllers as well.

>>379417564
>im a pcgamar so i can only y use kb+m plz halp
-sent from my pc with a 1080 ti sea hawk x and xbox one controller

>>379408858
I did this with TF2 for a while. Mapped jump to the trigger, reload to the bumper, and I think comms to the dpad. I remember I had a dedicated "Medic" button.

>>379417892
yeah i'm human, are you?
it's the same reason there's a difference in fatigue felt between pressing a 40g key and a 100g key
my thumb is meeting with zero resistance, all it does is gently glide atop a nice cold metal surface

>none
that was pretty obvious

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>>379417492
Gyro is significantly more accurate than twin stick can ever hope to be.

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>>379412626
It's a bit weird the first time but like everything once it clicks, it's not a big issue anymore.

Then again, I think that gyro is kinda uncomfortable.
Name games that make good use of gyro

>>379402359
yeah, i bought a steam controller. calling it mediocre is generous. the gyro is okay though.

>>379417808
Just double checked, and it's analog. Please proceed to kill yourself.

>>379419065
>analog
>headtracking
jesus christ you're a fucking retard

>>379419331
>trying to save face
It's ok, anon, it's an anonymous board.

>>379418745
Big fan of Splatoon, BotW, and Gravity Rush on Vita (I played the entire game in an office chair in the middle of my room turning in the chair to use the gyro).

As far as on the Steam Controller. I have Bit.Trip Beat set up to play like the Wii version, but with the Steam controller, and, you know, actually stable. Gonna try to do it to more of the series too but it'll probably just devolve into me playing both Runner games. Hopefully Flux or whatever the rail shooter was. Deus Ex HR is also a lot of fun with trackpad/gyro.

Been experimenting with putting buttons on Gyro since you can use set gyro to be a dpad. Right now I have it set up so in Dungeon Defenders 1 as the mechsuit class I can change my weapon by doing the exact same motion as the character. (Basically like a flick of their wrist to change weapon mods)

>>379419660
I only used the gyro in BotW in those shrines that required it but otherwise I stuck to the Pro Controller. I'll give it proper use the next time I'll play.
I have the remastered version of GR, it probably has gyro controls too. I guess I could try to setup the DS4 gyro with DS4Windows for some PC games

>>379419660
I fucking hated the gyro in Splatoon.
Moving the gamepad around was really fucking cumbersome.
In contrast, I absolutely loved the gyro aiming in the Splatoon 2 testfire. Playing in split joy-con mode was a dream because I only needed very slight movements of the right wrist to move the reticle.
It's kind of like the Wiimote aiming in Metroid Prime Trilogy but you don't need to point the controller at the screen.

>>379420752
I don't like the Gyro in splatoon as much as I used to admittedly, IIRC there was pretty much a set way to hold it that was always the middle instead of you being able to set your own neutral. I also didn't the camera stick not have up and down movement when gyro was on?

Yeah, great game, very responsive Gyro, but it's a bit barebones compared to what I'm used to now.

Fuck I dont want a Switch but the idea of Splatoon SPLITSCREEN, with improved Gyro might be enough to push me over the edge on that stupid thing.

>>379421286
>>379420752
Nevermind I misread split joy con as splitscreen