What the fuck, how come all the popular MMOs are so shit? Do

The more popular something is, the more normalfags will be part of that population.
The bigger the normalfag population, the more accommodating the game is to the lowest common denominator. Most of the time this means the game is dumbed down and boring as shit.
>project gorgon
Waiting for that game to actually feel good to play, otherwise I'm hopeful for it. I really hope the dev doesnt think movement is fine.

>>379380186
It looks a lot better than the last time I saw it, which was months ago. Looks and seems pretty hardcore, I hope the keep it like that.
Hopefully those rewards are only for early backera and it doesn't get even more cashshop cancer later on

>>379380186

Pretty much this. Peoples taste fuckiing sucks, so popular shit is often pretty mediocre.

>>379379865
because everything popular is shit and /v/ are contrarian snowflakes.

ESO is actually really good but keep continuing to ignore pls thx.

>>379381114
I'll agree, ESO was fun for a few weeks when I bought it, but the inventory management and crafting made me lose like 60% of my playtime, it's gotten too fucking tedious

>>379381251
>inventory management
>crafting
If you were on PC then addons reduce that time greatly.
>talk to banker
>click bank
>moves items back and forth according to filters within seconds
>walk outside
>interact with writ board
>automatically accepts all of them in a second
>repeat for other board
>go to crafting stations
>click addon button that automatically makes writ items (except alchemy for some reason, probably an addon for that too)

I dont know how people would be able to play on console though

>>379380186
But it took many year for WoW to accommodate.
Di you mean the entire industry is fucked up because profit?
>project gorgon
Don't reply to me.

>>379381653
>Don't reply to me.

>>379381603
Even with the addons it's tedious, but a lot of it is my fault since I have the need to hoard all the crafting materials. My bank is full nonstop, no matter how many times I expand it. And I'm not about to give in to the premium jew

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>>379379865
I like Tera, the core game is awesome but the updates are pretty fucking shitty

>>379381856


Honestly one of the things I really like about ESO is thatthe monthly fee gives good perks and doesn't hinder the game if you don't pay it. I feel like WoW doesn't need that shit anymore.

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>mfw wasting my lifeclock on shitty ToS, leveling cute lolis
send fucking help

The entire genre of MMO's was subverted by autists who hate social interaction but decided MMO's were the perfect game for them. Their autismal whining lead to devs trying to turn MMO's into multiplayer Lobby games where you never NEED to talk to anyone because devs realized these people spend tons of money on dumb shit because they have mom's credit card.

>>379382810

Actually normies ruined the social aspect of MMO's try again faggot.

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>>379383009
this
Normies don't have time to set up raids or dungeons, they literally want instant gratification the second they start the game, it's what ruined WoW, which led to the entire genre dying

>>379383123


It ruined WoW which in turned ruined everything else because people don't know how to innovate anymore.

>>379382649
Post lolis

>>379379865
Only the WoW-clones are really shit.

>>379383270
WoW was for normies from day 1. Nothing "ruined" WoW. It was always a solo MMO with very little player interaction. Did Vanilla have more actual player interaction than BC and on? Yes, but it was still nothing compared to EQ/FFXI/DaoC/UO/etc

>>379383631

Dude you're so wrong it's not even funny.

>>379383874
How?

Please explain in detail. I've played MMOs my entire life, including WoW.

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>>379383631
but vanilla WoW still kept the original MMO formula where the more time you invested, the better your character
Nowadays you can just log in a few hours a week and still be equally geared than someone that spends 24/7 on the game

>>379384050
>but vanilla WoW still kept the original MMO formula where the more time you invested, the better your character

That still goes for even the shit MMOs.

>Nowadays you can just log in a few hours a week and still be equally geared than someone that spends 24/7 on the game
No

>>379383991

Wow was super social and had a shit ton of interaction until the end of BC that they started implementing systems that get rid of it.

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>>379384228
>No
lol okay

>>379384050
Current WoW turns "the more time you invested, the better your character" to a new extreme. Significant amounts of character progression are locked behind time gates. Got a new character to max level? Now wait an arbitrary amount of time up to a week to unlock your last artifact slot so you can increase your weapon's dps and actually do heroics.


Vanilla WoW at least rewarded effort more than it did time.

45 SHAM/SK ON AGNARR THE NEW EQ POP-LOCKED PROGRESSION SERVER

tee hee

>>379384394
So Mythic raiders in WoW, for example, are worse off than people who play 2-3 hours a week?

No.

>>379384312
It was KIND OF social.

You needed groups for dungeons and raids. That's it. That's HARDLY social for a fucking MMO.

MMOs before WoW you needed to do EVERYTHING in a group. Want to travel across the world? Better get some buffs from other players or a portal. Want to level? Better get a fucking group. Want to get some gear from a zone? Best get a group you nigger.

WoW was the end of MMOs. Like you said, Vanilla had SOME social interaction, but it was killed off almost immediately, starting with patch 1.12.

>>379384050
It's what happens with vertical expansions where you're just adding new levels and content while invalidating the old one. At some point you need your new players to catch up so they have others players to interact with, don't miss out on what they just bought, etc. This is unavoidable problem behind classical progression system.

>>379384506
ya but when you log on you instantly regret giving blizzard money and then you log out in shame

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>>379384679
When people say "social" they don't really mean "doing something for mechanical gain". Grouping for dungeons is a social thing, but you're doing because you need people to a shot at that loot and very tiny minority ever did it for the joy of playing with others. Especially back then when players were generally ignorant of how games. More genuine social interaction would be what happens when you have longer cooldown periods aka when your character sits to recover after battle, long fly times, doing something menial that lats you chat at the same time, etc. This is when you kinda went to chatting with people because you weren't doing anything or were passing time. As these inconveniences were lessened or taken out entirely MMORPGs started to feel like worlds to socialize in and more like just games where you have to tolerate other morons to get your way.

>>379384976
I agree

Mmorpgs are shit, period. It has nothing to do with normies it's just you grew out of them

They are boring lifeless uninteresting grind festivals and only people with low iq play them past the age of 16

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>>379379865
I played MU back in the day.

>>379384679


Dude you had to travel in groups or get guild members to help you and shit just to finish questing in places like STV, trade chat and shit was always popping and all kinds of shit. Just because you're autistic doesn't mean the game wasn't social.

>>379385101
Yep, I agree 100%

You didn't have time for that in Vanilla WoW. You would occasionally need to wait for the healer to drink before a pull but it was not even remotely comparable to something like an EQ leveling party.

I'm just holding out for Chronicles of Elyria, it's the only MMO I've given a shit about since I stopped playing WoW several years back. If CoE turns out to be a disappointment I'll probably just give up entirely on the genre.

>>379385276
>Dude you had to travel in groups or get guild members to help you and shit just to finish questing in places like STV

No you didn't. Even on a PvP server you didn't. You could use the flightmaster to go within a 2 minute walk of ANYWHERE you needed to go. There was no danger in traveling in vanilla WoW. You just clicked went afk for 5 minutes while you flew there then walked 2 minutes. If you died, you walked 2 minutes and were back at your body with hardly any downside.

Zone wide trade chat spamming isn't social. If so, fucking AIM chatrooms had a better community than WoW.

>>379385371
>he didn't make friends with a healer to 2 man dire maul and make enough money for consumables to do raids every week

>>379379865
Here's how to make an MMO with a good community: make sure the game includes an element that makes it a social suicide for normies to discuss it in public or even admit to playing it. Make it pro-pedophilia, pro-racial purity or whatever the fuck.

>>379385734
that's basically Tera

>>379385631
Never had to worry about consumables but I sure as fuck remember farming just to respec. 50 gold every single time was such a crock of shit

>>379386127
I played a ret paladin all through vanilla and BC. As Alliance, so I didn't even get the good seal in BC.

You don't know what pain is.

Is dragon nest fun?

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>>379386267
Why didn't you just go Reck Bomb?

>>379386842
>trying to 100-0 someone in rank 14 armor

Not sure what he expected. Should have vanished when cheapshot was about to wear off and restart. That or blind him.

>played Archeage before Trion fucked everything up
RIP in pieces.

I'm playing Ragnarok Online now because it's all I can play but it's definitely better with friends and it can be grindy. I wouldn't recommend it anymore since it's just not the same

>>379382810
>>379383009
>>379383123
>subs design games

>>379387035
I wish I had.

>>379385629


You did not play Vanilla wow.

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Giving out a free copy of ESO to the first faggot I deem worthy to join my empty guild of shitfaggots.

Contact Sagebeat#3702 for more info

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I picked up ESO on PS4 because it was super cheap and honestly I'm having a really good time and I can't believe I didn't pick this up sooner

>>379388643
Yes, I did. The entire duration of it.

>>379388983


Then you played on some shitty server because on my server (Mal'Ganis) the PVP was insane and STV was a battleground hell between horde and alliance same as TM being low 20s or low 30s was hell to level in those zones.

>>379385123
>It's a /v/ calls just tab-targeting, hotkey, high-fantasy games "the MMO genre" episode

>>379384801
So, this can only be fixed with loot drop?

>>379389530
Horizontal Gear progression systems don't run into that issue because gear is valid from a higher variety of content meaning old content isn't invalidated by new content its just different, more niche applications.

Means a New Player who wants to do X build just needs to farm X set while Old Player doing Y build can keep using Y set. It's harder to do because it requires more balancing sweeps through armor sets when new content is added.

Having a new expansion just wipe away the slate is lazy and just creates a stockholm syndrome with veteran players who are fine with losing years of progress (and paying for it because they can't really continue playing without the latest expansion).

>>379379865
We had this topic the other day. All you guys can be as vocal as you want about it, but really when it comes time to support that one MMO that caters to you and needs your help to stay alive, none of you are around to help. Perhaps nobody actually likes your shitty ideas for an MMO?
>>379380186
This would be a good point if WoW also didn't have the toughest skill based content in MMOs as well as the easiest. The only MMOs with "tougher" endgames aren't usually tougher but have extremely time consuming grind mechanics attached instead (ex. that one MMO boss in...shit I forgot the game I think it was EQ or FFXI that takes hours to kill but only has a couple basic attacks that needs to be constantly circumvented.)

>>379390478
It's a really a shame that Mythic Raiding/Heroic Raiding and Mythic+ dungeons are locked in WoW because those systems are really fun (I think Flex Raiding was one of the best modern changes WoW has made) but the rest of the game is just awful, and with Legion adding so much busywork to do to keep relevant it feels souldraining.

>>379390612
For sure, I myself wonder why they have a lot of the other stuff. Would be interesting to know how much of the other content the player base messes with. The busywork stuff though, it's obvious this was some weird attempt by them to cater to the vanilla audience (plus the hyper rare TF stuff as well), and nobody liked it. I never want them to try shit like that again.

>>379391436
Titanforged and Legendaries are what kill Legion for me. You can never "stop" playing and feel comfortable, you can never decide "yeah I'm done doing world quests" because what if you get a TF piece, or the cache drops a legendary you need. It feels so terrible to be constantly tied to playing the game but not because it really feels rewarding but because you are rolling the dice.

Meanwhile Mythic+ is the first time WoW has had small group content really compete with Raid level drops and the only constant improvement with WoW has always been encounter design and mechanics. All of this is just overshadowed by gambling mechanics.

>>379390478
No ~AA MMO has catered to an innovative design.