Should Final Bosses be the hardest part of the game? Or should

The final boss should be a final exam to test all of the skills you've learned in the game.

The post game superbosses should be the hardest part of the game (if there are any).

>>379299774
/thread

yes but on specific conditions
1. minimum usage of phases or have phases transition smoothly into gameplay, no 10 minute cutscenes in the middle of the fight
2. no bullet sponges or fuckhuge cunts, they are never fun
3. Test the player's skill but don't overload them. The absolute batshit insane should be for post game bosses
Basically, do the complete opposite of garbage shat out by Square Enix.

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>>379299774
This.
Strangely enough, Gruntilda the Witch is a good example of a "final exam" boss.

>>379299330
They don't need to be. Would you rather the boss fight be an awesome spectacle, or simply the hardest individual fight in the game?

They should be Soul of Cinder.

They shouldn't exist at all. They're too video gamey.

>>379301932
SoC, Gwyn and Gerhman works on so many levels that is not even fair comparing them with other bosses.

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>>379302023
I know you're joking but some people genuinely think this and it makes me sad.

>>379299330
I hate Nintendo final bosses. Literally beatable by a 3 year old

>>379299774
This.

Adding to this, final bosses should have zero gimmicks involved in them. They should be a raw test of mechanical prowess

>>379302186

>Gwyn
>Do you remember how to parry? Then this fight ends in 10 seconds

Yeah man, one of the best boss fights ever. The reason there is no cutscene leading up to it is because it would be longer than the fight itself.

>>379302315
Kirby final bosses are hype as fuck, though.
But yeah, most of their other franchises can't into final bosses at all.

>>379299774
This. Goddamn Gerhman was such a good final boss even if I got my ass handed to me a few times.

>>379299330
Yes. They should be the hardest part of the main story, and if the player beats the side content then the final boss should get a boost in power to match. And I don't mean level scaling or number tweaks, I mean they get new moves/forms/etc.

>>379302473
How would you know parrying would work?
No other bosses can be parried, so why would you even try?

>>379301693
Spectacles lose their charm over time.

>>379302473
>using shields
fucking casual

>>379302552
>Having to fuck around doing minigames and sidequests to unlock the true final boss
This sounds like a recipe for disaster if there's missable content.

>>379302646
He used the ign guide like everyone else did

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>>379302023
>For Elder Scrolls six, we decided the final boss, to use that term, should be less of an old-fashioned fight against a single enemy like Dagoth Ur or Alduin, and more of an immersive, realistic experience- something not too "video-gamey". So, that is why the final story quest was climbing that mountain all the way to the top. You could say, the mountain itself was the final boss.

>>379302748
Missable content is pretty shit in general.

>>379302905
Missable content is great. Rewards exploration.

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>>379299330
> Or should they be a challenging yet first-time beatable
What does that even mean? A challenging boss kicks your ass repeatedly.

>>379302646

Because Gwyn is almost the same size as the player, and every other creature that's about your size is parryable. Not to mention, the only thing on the run-up to Gwyn is knights, all of which are parryable. But fine, have it your way.

>WHY WOULD YOU CHECK THAT

I dunno, why did I hit every other wall in the game looking for illusory walls? I couldn't know there would be any.

>>379302981
He means that you can beat it by the skin of your teeth the first time.

>hidden boss behind a locked door that requires a key from the prologue picked up behind an illusionary wall but only during night time during a timed escort misson

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Final bosses are the culmination of everything you've learned in a video game and applying them to beat the boss.

>>379303192
>you can only get to the timed escort mission by fighting an enemy who can open doors behind a waterfall
>after you beat the enemy, he thanks you for playing the game

>>379302970
Nah it's just walkthrough-bait. It's fine if an item exists in a place only temporarily, if there's another method to obtain it later. Otherwise it can fuck right off.

>>379303192
Name two games, one opera, and one escape the room puzzle that do this.

>>379302970
It only works in games that have high replay value and/or branching story paths.

It's shit everywhere else.

>>379302315
t. Never played thousand year door

>>379303159
That's boring.

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>>379299774
fpbp
Just like this guy here

>>379303425
>the shadow queen is hard
>what is power lift

Nintendo toddlers everyone

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>>379299330
Why not both?

>>379302981
I swear this boss is somewhat luck based. If the boss keeps spamming vortex there is no real way to win unless you are OP enough to finish the fight on your first turn with Aya support.

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>>379302970
>Permanently missing a sidequest because you didn't go back to the first town and talk to a specific NPC at a specific time whilst controlling a specific party member

no it's shite

>>379300550

And a fucking balls hard one at that. Grunty is GOAT final boss.

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QUICK, POST 10/10 FINAL BOSSES

>>379303698
Sounds like Tales of Vesperia.

>have to constantly backtrack to older cities anytime you made any story progress
>sometimes you even have to visit the same location twice in a row or you miss out on stuff

Really hated that about the game. First time I played through without a guide I ended up missing most of the endgame stuff because I didn't backtrack enough.

>>379304050
It happens in a lot of Tales games.

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>>379303698
>mfw trying to get Atelier Totori's true end on my first playthrough with no guide

>>379299774
i was going to post nearly this ENTIRE FUCKING POST word for fucking word

thanks asshole

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>>379304149
>mfw trying to make the best weapons and armour in any Atelier game, even with a guide

>>379299330
depends on lots of things

If the "final boss" is the last boss to complete the main narrative, no he shouldn't be the hardest thing in the game. If by final boss, you mean the last enemy you can fight once you've cleared everything else, story or otherwise, then yes, he should be the hardest thing

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>after beating Dancer of the Boreal Valley, you can climb the ladder, go left, and find an optional area called the Consumed King's Garden
>the boss of this area is a guy who experimented on himself and turned into a dragon hybrid and when you enter the fog gate, he squishes his son into bloody paste
>after you beat him, you'll find a dragon statue and when you look at it, you'll learn the gesture "path of the dragon"
>if you go back to Irithyll Dungeon and preform the gesture next to a similar dragon statue, you'll transport to a place called Archdragon Peak where you'll fight more dragon hybrids, two giant wyverns and Gwyn's first born son
>but don't forget to hit the illusory wall behind the dragon stature where you first learned the gesture because behind it leads to the tutorial area, but it's covered in darkness
>you can fight an improved version of the very first boss here and then go find an exact copy of firelink shrine, but only a shrine handmaid is here
>you can buy Artorias' armor from her
>behind another illusionary wall, you can find the cut out eyes of the firekeeper
>if you give them to her, you can unlock an alternative ending!

>>379304281
Isn't that the whole fucking point of Atelier games though?
>A little girl's quest to make the ultimate bomb
Pretty much sums up the series as far as I'm aware, certainly was that way for Atelier Firis.
>Finally making a Blitz crystal with perfect traits, 999 quality and perfect effects
>Run to nearest boss to test that sucker out
>Remember there was this gold dragon that kicked my ass
>Use ultimate bomb that took a lot of work to make
>239 damage
>MFW
Turns out the damn thing just has massive damage resists and the bomb actually deals 2400~ damage for 3 turns which pretty much kills any boss except that specific one.

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Good
>Final boss uses a mixture/combination of attacks from previous bosses with variations on them that test your complete knowledge of the game and its controls

Okay
>Final boss uses the exact same attacks and patterns from previous bosses with no variation that merely tests your memory

Bad
>Final boss is a QTE

The final boss should have a spectacle form and a brutal form. They show off first and don't pose much challenge, then fight for their lives. Lavos and Xemnas come to mind. A single form final boss is usually lame.

>>379299774
What about true final bosses? Or do they count as a post game superboss?

>>379302981
Something that makes you exhale and feel good about what you accomplished at the end of it with some near misses and actual difficulty, without flattening your ass back to the game over screen five times and ruining the flow of the end of the game

Don't have to be THE hardest, but don't make it so killing the optional hardest boss makes last boss an absolute joke.

Talking to you FFX.

>>379305313
>final boss has a rallying cry cutscene before it, where the whole cast cheers for you from around the world and restores your HP/unlocks your true power
>you die and kill the moment
Looking at you Paper Mario

>>379299774
Well I see no point in adding anything else to the thread now. Thanks jackass.

>>379302315
>he hasn't played Sin & Punishment 2

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>>379305681
>dying in a Nintendo game

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>>379299330
SPOILER
Giygas isn't hard, but fighting it was the most climatic boss battle ever. I didn't know the secret to beating it and with all my party members down and out of pp all i could do was pray...

>>379305881
That's a Treasure game, though.

>tfw no Starfox by Treasure

>>379299774
fpbp yet again. how do we stop this bros?

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>>379301932
>A boss I one and done'd with little to no challenge, along with Gwyn
>good final boss

No.

Gannondorf to Gannon is the best example, as is Ghermann to Moon Presence.
Multi pronged first fight, then an ending giant for the real challenge boss.

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>>379303941
Xenoblade is a good one

>>379303941

both of the Bravely games

>>379302852
>Final boss of TESVI is pre-ordering Fallout 5 and the season pass

>>379299330

yes. Octavio in Splatoon is the perfect example of how a to do a final boss right

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>>379304434
I'm pretty pissed.

Do you mean to tell me the real ending besides sit down at the fire after killing Soul of Cinder first try was hidden behind an illusionary wall that deep into a random ass path???

Seriously fuck Dark Souls 3. It's where they jump the shark on every annoying aspect of Dark Souls 1.
Bloodborne truly is the king, and even I thought the "eat 3 Umbilical cords for the real ending" was a stretch.

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>>379306394
>boss uses Bravely Second against me

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>>379299330
for a single stand alone game. yes. but if its the final boss for a long running series "finisher" in which youve invested literal YEARS into then theres really only one way to do it. gameplay doesnt even matter at this point

>>379306119
This right here. Giygas was GOAT.

>>379302473
Or just equip your havels and just poise through everything. His fight turns into a matter of spamming r1 and chugging.

>>379299330
Difficult, but with a "cinematic" game over and continue to make it less "gamey" - as painful as that was to type. Kinda like Nier Automata's final ending. Or Mickey coming to Sora's rescue and playing as him to revive Sora if you game over in KH2.

>>379306762

thats what I loved about Second. The final boss wasn't between the party and the monster threatening their world.

It was a fight between two equal powers fighting for control of the party to execute their will

>>379306152
It's actually kind of interesting when you think about it. the first post often being the best post is no coincidence. Because of the way bumping works on 4chan the OP cannot bump their own post and thus are dependent on the first post for the initial bump. If the OP doesn't have a good enough post to elicit any response or only draws a bad response, the thread will quickly 404. In fact a look at statistics shows that for every thread that makes it past three to four posts, there are ten that die in infancy. Simply put, the reason the first post is often the best post is because there is evolutionary pressure on the OPs to make threads that will result in a good first post.

>>379303634
With byak's resist buff vortex doesn't do anything
The cool way to kill it is by stealing turns with private square.

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>>379299774

First post, best post. Do all the smart and handsome posters hang out at the bottom of the catalog or something?

The only way to improve upon this is make the boss itself kickass/terrifying or hype in general.

>>379306119

I remember 30 turns of hitting him with a bat, Ness refusing to die.

Next time up, I hit Pray on a whim.

>>379306740
>He doesn't like hidden endings

It's not the "real" ending, it's the alternate.

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>>379306826
I enjoyed MGS4 ending, but come on. You can't say that at all. Imagine how much better it could've been had the gameplay been there to support it?

>>379299774
Does that mean Link's Awakening Ganon is the best boss fight in the series?

>>379299330
The final boss should have 2 phases but the second phase should be stronger(different attack strings more damage) with the more hp you have left or how fast you cleared the first.

this will make it feel more clutch if you defeat it and will give you a feeling that you achieved somenthing(would be a pain to balance thou)