so his only sin was rescuing black kids from war and shooting

>I'm already damaged, Miller

Don't forget he might have made a nuclear bomb and never used it, which is the worst thing you can ever do. And then he probably disarmed it if it wasn't stolen by another version of himself.

>rescues child soldiers and gives them a basic education, something they'd never get otherwise
I'M ALREADY A DEMON

>>379247345
>"That's not the end of it either, Miller. There's more phantoms."
>"More?"
>"There's thousands of other versions of Big Boss."
>"That's not possible..."
>"Thousands of versions of you, too."
>"What the fuck..."

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Did you guys really think a series as obnoxiously anti-war as MGS was going to have you play as a warmonger killing without reason? Silly.

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>>379247960
well kojima said so....

>>379247132
What do you think the real big boss up to during '84? killing black kids?

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>>379248237
Nah, kids love Big Boss. He's autistic as fuck and gets along with them better than other adults.

>>379247960
>reverse image search that
>the largest version is 1600x900
Kill me pls.

>>379248237
Chillin' on some California beach drawing up plans for Outer Heaven with a red crayon he found in the sand.

>>379247132
this game was so stupid.
>"we are already going to hell"
>*shoots a child soldier*
>"BOSS, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!"

>>379248237
BEING THE ACTUAL GAME WE WANTED

I hate that Kojima pushed the marketing in such a misleading way. There's not much inherently wrong with the final game other than being obviously unfinished, but in the context of the intense and soaring marketing campaign that promised something completely different to what we got, it was such a disappointment.

>>379251572
he promoted the game he planned to make. then it hit 6months before release and konami cut all funding. you can see where he had to stitch the game together in an attempt to make it coherent(ish).

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Just don't say the forbidden one's name.

>>379247132
No, he had all of Big Boss's memories and experiences so he carried the weight of Big Boss's sins as well.

>>379251697
this makes me so sad

>>379251828
It's fake bullshit.

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>>379247132
No child deserves to be forced into service

>>379252019
Sweet confectionery, pls go.

>>379252324
Nigger, that shit makes no sense when you take Skull Face's actual plan into account.

>>379251673
While the cutting did happen, the game was nonetheless very misleading. All scenes we saw in the trailers that implied a moral descent of Big Boss were a ruse, in every such scene he turned out to be a saint.

>>379251362
>bad people can't have standards

>>379251362
>know we're going to hell
>"why the fuck are you freaking out at me needlessly killing children"

>>379252368
umm no sweety pie, it all still makes pretty good sense.

I'm going to nuke this thread to check if 「HE」 responds to the name. I'm sorry, everyone.


Caramel

>>379252789
umm, no it doesn't, especially if you take into account Metallic Archaea. But I guess you didn't listen to the tapes so you have no idea what I;m talking about.

>>379252871
don't make me put my trip on and embarrass the everloving shit out of you

>>379247132
we did see Big Boss become a demon and a villain. he betrayed his ideals and began to emulate Metal Gear villains. Venom isn't Big Boss, he's the embodiment of the heroic aspects of Big Boss everyone (the players) believed to be true. the problem is no one paid attention during Peace Walker and didn't understand Big Boss is a complicated, fucked up guy who decides he's going to create endless warfare to ensure soldiers always have a place in the world, all they remember is "KAAAZ I'M OUT OF CURRY XD!" then they play MGSV, still don't pay attention and blame Kojima because they're fucking retarded.

>>379252965
>don't make me put on my trip
You should just fucking kill yourself.

>>379253043
that's right pussy, hushmode.

Big Boss was never evil that's just a meme created by the patriots

>>379252980
The problem was the marketing as per >>379251572
Big Boss is inherently right to be mad at America and other countries about them treating their soldiers like cum rags, though.

>>379252980
>we did see Big Boss become a demon and a villain. he betrayed his ideals and began to emulate Metal Gear villains.
No, we didn't see this. That character was entirely absent from 99% of the game. Everything we wanted to see happened off screen and we got to follow a barebones plot of somebody pretending to be what we wanted and failing miserably. It's painfully obvious that most of the very few cutscenes were designed for trailers, with all the lines about being demons and going to hell. They're completely incongruous with the actual game. Don't act like it's some deep meta twist, Kojima already did that much better with MGS2. This is just a lazy bait and switch.

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>>379247132
It was loving his comrades.

>>379253607
>Everything we wanted to see happened off screen
It happened before the game started lmao
You're still asshurt after all this time?

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>>379253486

>>379253607
>Few cutscenes
>5 hours.
Mhm...

>>379253607
Big Boss was already a villain at the end of Peace Walker. he resigned himself to the path that would lead him to becoming a tyrant and warlord we see in MG2. MGSV we just see that in practice.

>betrays his ideals of ensuring soldiers aren't used as pawns by using Venom as a pawn in his war against CIPHER
>rather than fighting his enemies himself, he slinks to the shadows to scheme and lets others do his fighting for him like Metal Gear villains tend to do

this is painfully obvious if you see the way Venom treats his soldiers. Big Boss wouldn't have a funeral spreading ashes on his soldiers faces because after MGS3 he understood caring about your soldiers is a bad idea. and again, by the end of Peace Walker, Big Boss wanted to perpetuate endless war so soldiers always fight. in the disarmament cutscene, Venom gives a speech about trying to bring about peace.

no, Big Boss is not twirling his mustache, killing kids and cackling like a cartoon villain. he's still a bad guy. we saw the fall in Peace Walker, we're seeing it in action in MGSV.

>>379247132
Basically the moral of the story is that video games have made us all into potential Big Boss stand ins.

>>379253851
Big Boss was getting too old to be sneaking around in warzones by the 80s

The real reason why you don't get to play as Big Boss is because he's no longer a pawn (the Snake you play as in every game). He uses other people now for his own benefits, and he's basically a villain.

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>>379253758
that proves nothing

>MGS main line games are something special
>so MGS V would be a good opportunity to show the progression of Big Boss and his friends from FOX from nice guys to villains
>instead almost the whole game you are playing as someone else instead basically making the whole game a waste at least story wise

Isn't this similar to what Kojima did with MGS2?

>>379253969
didn't stop Snake in MGS4

>>379253969
No, he was almost the same age as Venom. Younger even, if I remember right.

>>379254010
see >>379253981
and >>379253851
Also we do learn about his friends from FOX, you just didn't listen to the tapes.

>>379254010
more or less. not many returning characters from MGS1 and the end of the game revolves around some conspiracy shadow government group that was only introduced in that game, and there was no real resolution.

Am I the only one that liked Venom Snake existing? It feels better knowing that BB doesn't just survive being nuked because reasons

>>379254032
David had the help of a magical suit so that his spaghetti muscles would serve him like they did when he was young.

>>379253607
>No, we didn't see this.
We did, that's what the entirety of Peace Walker is about, his growing disillusionment with The Boss' ideals, and his eventual abandonment of them, culminating with him casting her Bandana into the sea.

>>379254010
MGS2 still had the real Solid Snake with you every step of the way on codec

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>>379247132
Jesus fucking christ how hard is it to get the point of MGSV?

TPP isnt about Big Boss being evil, it's about showing he was already a fucking dick after Peace Walker. Kojima takes the "I want to be just like Big Boss!" idea and flips it on its head. Venom Snake is literally Big Boss's most loyal follower becoming the man himself, and he realizes that maybe being Big Boss wasn't such a great thing after all. This is why he says "Kaz, I'm already a demon." right at the start of the game.

The opening song of TPP is "The Man Who Sold the World"; a song by David Bowie having an indentity crisis over Ziggy Stardust. A man caught between the legend and the man. This is exactly what Venom Snake goes through. The deconstruction of idol worship is a recurring theme in MGS.

>>379254084
Kingdom of the Flies was that resolution.
It would mark the start of the war of Venom (and Big Boss's war) against The Patriots and XOF.

>>379254118
I think I preferred it when Big Boss's life decisions didn't revolve entirely around another pretty boring character.

>>379252110
Yeah, they should just die in a ditch somewhere.

>>379254264
Venom didn't knew he was a memetic clone until Shining Lights, Even in Death.

>>379254264
>he realizes that maybe being Big Boss wasn't such a great thing after all
The fucking ending slaps you on the head with this.
We know from previous events in the game that he becomes "Demon Snake" when he feels gulity about things he's done.

Take a look at the ending. He accepts Big Boss's manipulative words and his proposal to become Big Boss. He puts in the casette tape, time skip occurs (you can see the Outer Heaven logo in the back) and he comes back in the bathroom bloodier than he ever was ( he feels guilty for all the shit he did in the name of Big Boss).

>>379253758
you were wrong
where's my fucking money

>>379254387
Yet he retains part of his personality, and sees Big Boss's pre-V deeds through his own eyes.

>>379254264
>"I want to be just like Big Boss!"
Only the biggest retards who barely follow the games ever thought this, so making it something to base an entire game on was a waste of time. Most people just really liked Big Boss as a character and wanted to follow his story, but Kojima's head is so far up his own ass at this point that he genuinely thought he was reliving MGS2's glory days.

>>379254594
Mate, MGS fanboys literally thought the ending of V is "Kojima gives the title of Big Boss to you, the players, thanking you for playing the series".

No one has answered me one question: how did Big Boss manage to build an army while in hiding?

>>379254654
Seeing how V ends before that, no one knows.
But please buy the Metal Gear 1 and 2 remakes to see it! Just $59.99!.

>>379254517
>and sees Big Boss's pre-V deeds through his own eyes.
I like to think of that as an explanation for the third person in BB's games.
That's Ocelot mindfucking Venom's mind for a long period of time so that he would become Big Boss.
>Yet he retains part of his personality
Yes, that's what the entire Paz thing is about.

>>379254654
>>379254790
He had an army which was created by his pawn, Venom.
Then he gave Outer Heaven to Venom in 1995 as stated in the credits.

>>379254654
All the major heat was on Venom's Outer Heaven. This allowed real Big Boss to lay low and start getting territory and forces. Could have used fulton recovery for all we know.

>>379247132

>Taking kojima trailers at face value
How new were all these people?

>>379252394
This. Adding the jungle showdown would not have fixed most of MGSV issues. I don't know why people still don't get this after nearly two nears.

>>379254872
>as an explanation for the third person in BB's games
what?

>>379253851
This. I thought him throwing his bandana at the end of PW was a fitting end for MGS saga. He already was very much on the path to how we see him in MG.

Also, notice that Venom recovered the bandana and in disarment cutscene he talks to Boss, not BB.

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>Snake did I ever tell you of the time I duplicated an injured soldier to believe he was me
>Remember that time you burnt me alive with an aerosol can? That was actually my meme clone
>He was a good friend

>>379254654
Big Boss "disbands" Diamond Dogs when he joins FOXHOUND and starts working for The Patriots again as an act of good faith, these men don't actually disband at all and instead go with Venom to form Outer Heaven.

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>>379254654
he combed areas of conflicts for survivors and took them in. most of these were kids he groomed into child soldiers.

>>379255141
A silly headcanon of mine of explaining gameplay with lore.

>>379255284
No.

>>379255291
And Venom is the one who helped child soldiers get another chance at life.
Ironic.

>>379255061
>>379255291
I find it hard to believe he could do this without no one finding out that there are 2 Big Bosses.

>>379254965
>>379255284
But post credits Ocelot says that Big Boss is working separately to create his new nation. This sounds to me like he is doing it simulatinously while Diamond Dogs exist.

I am so confused...

>>379255596
Big Boss had a piece of the Philosophers' Legacy.
That's the part that was canon of Portable Ops.

>>379253851
He's a bad guy as despite seeing the effects of nukes and experiencing them and the horrors of war, when Kaz is all "we need a nuke boss" he's just like "yeah alright then"

that was the point in MGS that we saw Big Boss start to turn his ideals..

>>379255451
how? he just kept kids on a military base until they were old enough to hold a gun. He didn't pass them over to a country so that they could have a normal life. All these kids knew was war and Venom took a gun from their hands and forced them to be around was anyway.

>>379247792
>Demon is intended as Phantom, non-existent (other than the horn)

>>379255260
Other way around. Snake took out Venom with an RPG in Outer Heaven. The aerosol was on the real Big Boss in Zanzibarland.

>>379248237
Travelling the world and recruiting soldiers like Sniper Wolf

>>379252980
>KAAAZ I'M OUT OF CURRY XD
Don't forget NORAD tracking Santa Claus

>>379255315
I like it. Obviously not anything Kojima intended, but I still like it.

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>>379247132
>rescuing black kids
The capital sin

>>379253838
A half of it is probably just Shining Lights lmao

VIC BOSS

>>379259227
NORAD actually does track Santa though. Have done since 1955.

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>>379247345
>steal someone's nuke
>dispose of it right away
>in the short time it took me to dispose of it, someone already invaded me to steal it

Could not even use a nuke even if he wanted to. His clones are always lurking.

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>Baaaaaaw why didnt Big Boss kill some black children baaaaaaw
You fuckers completely missed the point of Big Boss if you though he did a bunch of evil shit for no fucking reason.

>>379254270
Boss's war was more against Zero himself rather than The Patriots. Zero, the man who rescued him from the helicopter crash, nursed him back to health and was even nice enough to create a body double to draw his enemies off him.

Boss has no motivation to fight Zero since they're suddenly best buds, especially since Zero is in his coma before the events of TPP, let alone MG1, fucking up the series lore beyond comprehension.

TPP is a cluster fuck and makes no sense.

>>379263832
When's Sony's conference again?

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>>379247960
Yes, actually. We were supposed to be a veteran so consumed by his addiction to fighting that he becomes a warmonger with a micronation and nukes. We would learn more anti-war stories, but from the other side's perspective. Gaze into demon abyss, demon abyss gazes into you and your peen gets small. Etc.

Is Venom Snake a quality husbando?

>>379263832
i've never seen anyone reach so hard to justify a bad game

>>379251697
Fake or legit?

>>379263832
please kill yourself

>>379267307
fake, the stuff about the fox engine being unstable is a giveaway. that engine's been around since metal gear solid: rising was in development about 8 years ago.

>>379267525
meh

>>379247132
No, his sin was only in the eyes of the world.
No matter what he did, he was going to be Big Boss, and thus, be considered a terrorist.

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>>379251697
I wrote that and it's fake.
I was simply bored and drunk.
As proof, here you have another screenshot I took earlier than the one in that post.
The colors and contrast look different in both pics from the vanilla version of MGSV because I use the 2013 ENB that's in Nexus.

>>379255260
This >>379258612 and it wasn't BB who came up with that bullshit plan. However, after he was up and running again he didn't do much to stop all this.
Could have told Ocelot to stop that bullshit, but he'd rather save his own ass.

>>379252871
>>379252789
>umm
Found the fat as shit redditors.

>>379254118
But it's not the last step.
People wanted to see the point he goes full batshit crazy and see why some characters describe him as monster later on (and why some, like Sniper Wolf, idolize him so much even though they met him after he already went down the hole).
They wanted a smooth transition between goofy Naked (MGS3), struggling BB (OPs/PW) to crazy BB (MG1/2).
Instead we got another guy pushed in, which kinda helped with explaining how MG2 was possible when MG1 he actually got killed already, but that's it.

I wanted to see BB turn total crazy, instead I got to see him fucking off on his bike while another guy gets his identity (mind and body) taken, pushed into hell and forced to deal with shit he actually had nothing to do with.

>>379247132
That's not Big Boss, that comes later.

>>379268870
I know. I just wanted to see how much confusion it would bring to Caramel threads.

>>379248605
Panel 3 frustrates me to no end.