>Diablo 3 adds 6 new Uniques >PoE adds 6 new acts How

>>379155131
You're obviously not aware of the communities into ARPGs.

Diablo 3 players were very impressed with the PoE announcement, and lamented that they weren't going to be getting anything as huge and gamechanging as it.

The players of those games are not competing. They just want to get good shit. PoE is getting the best shit.

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>>379155264
He specifically states "Blizzdrones". You see the /pol/ mindset take the classic console war banter models and apply it to any possible distinction these days.

You're right of course, with the exception of the imaginary Blizzdrones OP chooses to believe in. But do you really think you'll convince somebody of reason around these parts?

Anyone planning to participate in the beta? I'm gonna maintain radio silence until the launch patch notes are out to make my builds and loot filter.

I hope balance puts Blade Fall in a relatively good place compared to where it's been.
The last trapper I played was a Trapsin back in the day and I've always disliked the archetype. So I've stood clear of the poison bladefall trap double dip shit.

I just want to manual cast it as my main spell.
The issue is that Blade Vortex just out-scales it while sharing every mathematical function.

It's in the same sad place as the newer fire-beam. Sure you can scale it to passable damage, but you're still going to do more damage if you keep the entire build the same and switch out the active skill.

>>379155683
>Anyone planning to participate in the beta
Yup; probably going to make my usual Ice Shot guass-rifle again to see how it fairs in the new system

I'm hyped about the beta but not too hot on the lottery system.

>>379155683
>Anyone planning to participate in the beta?
Avoiding it, actually. Last time I did it, it sort of killed a bit of enthusiasm by the time it was full released and I could play with friends.

Want to go in with same footing as rest of the guys I group with.

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>>379155131
They don't anymore.
I actually got into closed beta, when D3 was about to launch and damn everyone was so hyped like it was no tomorrow. Then it launched... kinda.
Then PoE went into open beta and kripp started to stream it. Everything else is history.
Only complain for PoE is that if you don't own SSD even minor patches can took you awhile to install. Besides that, PoE shits on D3 on every other department.

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>>379155131
Actually, the attitude towards PoE among D3 fans is at worst lukewarm. I still follow all communities from D2 SP and TQ/GD to D3 and PoE, and now PoE gets universal praise with occasional "combat feels awkward" memes from 2012.

However, I feel like the audience of PoE has become different. When I was in beta, much less people played it. It was slower, more tactical (for an ARPG, that is), races were the shit, etc. I shilled it as much as I could here and leddit, and what I often got in response was "yeah, but in D3..". Seeing what a leviathan mr chris has created and hot it has changed, I'm not sure I would shill it again if I got back in 2011/2012. It is now larger, more complex, more sustainable financially, but it is less of "my" type of game now.

>>379155683
>Anyone planning to participate in the beta?

Nah. I'm going to abstain from any spoilers and start 3.0 with SSF, so I can take my time and experience all the new acts at least once 'properly' without rushing to endgame or over powered leveling gear.

I'm still kind of tempted to do HC SSF, but I think going blindly against all those new act bosses would rek my shit too hard, too often and I'd have to do a LOT of Act 1-4 before I reach Act 10.

After hitting Maps, I'll probably scrap the SSF gimmick and maybe go back to the HC temp league. Don't know yet.

I plan on buying stash bundles, for how long they are going to be on sale?

>>379156307
>Seeing what a leviathan mr chris has created and hot it has changed
What annoys me the most is how they went full jew mode with literally everything and prefer to make skins instead of working on problems.

>>379156617
They are on sale every other week.

>>379156681
Okay, then I probably won't bother until the expansion launches

>>379156681
> to make skins instead of working on problems.
Come on, don't be that guy. They have expanded their studio greatly, for the artists to stay employed they need to do something, and this has 0 effect on some kiwi neckbeard slogging through c++ code.

>>379155131
>6 new acts
>1 is actually new
>other 5 are reskins of older acts
W O W
O
W
in b4 i'm actually d3 shill

>>379155980
>friends in poe

Fucling normie faggot

>>379155131
It is very weird that Diablo 3 has barely get one expansion since its launch while PoE has steadily been growing at a nice rate until now that suddenly it's going to fucking burst.
It gets even weirder when you compare Diablo 3 to the development of other Blizzard Titles.

Overwatch gets new maps and characters at a slow pace.
WoW used to get huge expansion packs even if those were bad.
HoS is getting new characters as well every now and then.

Diablo 3 so far got a new act with some kind of new map mode and just one class, and now they are going to weirdly just release a new class with no new maps or expansions with it which never happened before in a Diablo game.
And by now Diablo 3 is quite a fucking old game, they must be about to abandon it.

>>379156963
I think the 5th and the 10nth are new acts.
I agree that the 4 acts between them are actually a reskin and that's about how they are presented in the trailer but still you see new monsters and environment designs so that's better than playing the same maps again in a new difficulty, keep in mind these "new" acts were made to substitute cruel and merciless difficulties.

>>379155131
PoE is boring as fuck though

>>379156963
That's still better than actually playing through the game 3 times and they're more than reskins

>>379156681
>What annoys me the most is how they went full jew mode with literally everything and prefer to make skins instead of working on problems.
Sure because the guy that fixes bugs and game design is the same guy modelling armor and shinies for wings.

>>379155931
Eh it's better than only streamers getting in. Personally I kinda don't want to play the beta as I want to experience all of the new content in the hardcore temp league.

>>379155131
not that diablo 3 is good or anything, but don't you only get like 2 skills in PoE?

>>379156963
They're more than reskins. Sure they reuse some areas but there are entirely new ones too (about 50:50).

t. alpha tester

>>379157404
did they fix trading or is it still shit?

>>379157395
D3 is good though

>>379157395
Depends on a build
Combat is not that good in PoE desu
They only recently "fixed" the whirlwind-like skill and it's still shit compared to whirlwind. Almost every skill feels somewhat clunky to use compared to D3.

>>379157475
not really
still always online even after removal of the market
endless paragon grinding
shitty aesthetic

>>379157573

Bad game design doesn't change the fact that the engine runs like butter and feels satisfactory to play.

D3 is a bad game from a developmental point of view, but gameplay wise, like every Blizzard game, it's very polished and clean.

Damn shame, really.

>>379157475
Moderately hijacking, anything interesting in the past.. year or so in D3?

>>379155872
How have the new ranger/shadow phys/cold conversion nodes done for such a build if you've been playing it for a long time?

>>379155980
Yeah a really content heavy patch is the only time my lads will fire up PoE for a league.

>>379156395
yeah that's always the hardest call for me. I absolutely adore HC early on, with all the rips and shit. The blindness sucks(fucking release Malachai was comedy gold) at a personal level but will proabably make the community a lot more fun.

The other issue though is the other reply I made, I might actually have friends playing for once, and they'll all go softcore.

I probably still won't have decided until I can see the launch notes and see how tanky my build will be.

>>379157468
Not that poster but GGG seem pretty scared to fix trading. They're aware that like a fancy in game auction house would have far more people easily pick what they want up, which would speed up a lot of the content; and I guess their market researches say that is a bad thing for people sticking around to buy MTX or something.

I can kinda see their concerns, but it isn't too bad in its current state. I don't trade too much though.

>>379157674
Just more polish and features that should have been in the game since launch.

>>379157679
>GGG seem pretty scared to fix trading
all i need to know
dumb fucks are killing their own game

>>379157667
the engine runs like butter until you get a latency spike, and then you're fucking dead if you're running a high level mythic GR
otherwise I would agree it plays well mechanically

>>379157752
ironically the most they might help trading out is for the 'Bone release.

>>379157267
>>379156789
PoE apologists everyone - dont worry, you might have 5 forum titles, which means you wasted around 200€ on this but some people still see when dewvs just went full retard mode.

>>379157674
They add zones and do some balance chanages here and there, but it's still RoS with its cookie cutter 2-3 viable playstyles per hero, depending on sets.

>>379157776

Latency is unrelated to my point.

I've only died to lag once in Reaper of Souls anyway.

>B-but Hardcore

People went in knowing this game was locked behind always-online DRM, they were retarded for making a HC character to begin with.

>>379157679
>How have the new ranger/shadow phys/cold conversion nodes done for such a build if you've been playing it for a long time?
I haven't actually picked any conversion nodes even though I should; I went for crit/area damage which seems to work really well.
The only problems I've had so far are rares that are physical and elemental resistant.

>>379157914
The effects of lag depends on the build used.
I used to play WD helltooth with fire wall + acid cloud, and it lagged the fuck out because of so much DoT.

>>379157679
>which would speed up a lot of the content
This is so annoying. Can't they make like an NPC for an auction house that only appears in certain difficulty or after completing certain objectives? If they want to limit low-level rushing for most players they can make the auction house endgame only, so you can auction only after you play through content the normal way. If you're in you are in the beginning of the league with a fresh character you don't have money to buy stuff anyway.

>>379157837
>but some people still see when dewvs just went full retard mode
Such as real money auction house?

>>379157186

>It is very weird that Diablo 3 has barely get one expansion since its launch while PoE has steadily been growing at a nice rate until now that suddenly it's going to fucking burst.
It gets even weirder when you compare Diablo 3 to the development of other Blizzard Titles.

Not really weird at all. D3 is just Activision-Blizzards one hastily assembled sequel to a franchise they want to keep alive.

PoE is the only game of Grinding Gear Games. Its like a rich family with 20 kids in it who have neglecting and dismissive parents, versus a poorer family with exactly one kid in it, but very loving parents who want to see their kid succeed.

Thats why PoE has become better over time. The rich spoiled kid with neglected parents became a useless money-wasting grease-haired shithead, while the poorer kid with supportive parents worked hard to get into a superior position.

>>379157679

> They're aware that like a fancy in game auction house would have far more people easily pick what they want up,

Auction house like that defeats the purpose of the game entirely. A great unique item isnt so great or unique anymore if its easy to find and available to Pay2Win-children. One of the reasons why D3 was such a fucking failure of a game until Reaper of Souls fixed it to at least "ok" level.

>>379158691
Yeah for sure, the what you want it when you want it Auction House is the harshest example of what they want to avoid. I obviously agree that they should avoid it. It's just that they see any move to ease the trading experience as moving too close to that ultimatum, which seems to be the issue pissing off the most people now.

>>379158691
>Auction house like that defeats the purpose of the game entirely.
It doesn't matter, everyone already trades through third-party auction houses. You cannot stop it without limiting trade like D3 did (party only, 2 hour limit). Auction houses will always exist.

Are utility flasks the worst thing to happen to PoE?

>>379159148
With the current clearspeed meta and ease to refill them, yeah.

>>379155131
GGG supports RMT
they used to supply them with league specific items before any of players even got them
they ban people who try to block RMT ads in chat, but do nothing to stop said RMT ads themselves.
they don't do anything against people using cheats like maphacks, dangerous monster affix warnings, autoflask, autologout, arrows pointing to valuable loot offscreen, monster healthbars with numbers, etc.

they just dont give a fuck. all they care about is profit, thus - skins for 60$, mystery box jewtricks and supporters money go towards funding of xbox version, while the game is in such a sorry state that the only positive thing that can be said about it is "well it's still better than picking my nose or playing d3... i guess".

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My problem with ARPGs is that the combat is incredibly simple and shallow. All viable buids mostly require just 2-3 buttons and to smash the boss until he dies or until you run out of potions

Reinstalling this game right now. What's the best game mode it has? I never played much of it initially.

>>379155131
By being the better game that actually has builds

PoE only has 1 build and its pot spam + 1 AoE ability spam

I don't like the shallow world of PoE, I feel no drie at all to explore the world for reasons other than item search. There's no interesting places with cool lore or lovely sceneries.

This brings you down to the fact everyne also uses the dash skills to quickly move around cause the world is so empty that u wanna skip every inch of it which has no monsters.

>>379159518
Play in league, that's all you need to know

>>379159631

>explore the world

it's an arpg mr autismo you just run around and kill shit

>>379155131
I fucking hate the skill-gem-system or whatever you call it and it keeps me from enjoying this otherwise great game. Any advice?

>>379159504
in poe you dont even run out of potions...

>>379159504
Play Titan Quest, some builds require upwards of 10 skills, many without a cooldown. I personally hate those builds because it's a pain in the ass to keep track of all of them.

>>379159717
Yes, I know.
But compare it to Grim Dawn which has a quite dense world to be explored, PoE offers nothing in this aspect and whatever place I am walking free in PoE it just feels like desert: empty and soulless

>>379155683
Double dipping is officially dead in Fall.

They seem to be using this expansion as the time to pull the really major balance strings.
ES is getting turbo-nerfed at the top end as well.

This is their best opportunity to kill the movement-speed, screen-clearing, tank-less, high-HP meta and bring back some longer encounters and more strategic combat.

With how much depth the game has, it's almost a sin how shallow the current meta playstyle is.

Pray for good patch notes in beta.

>>379158840

> Auction houses will always exist.

And those should be a thing for the players who are willing to spend money on not enjoying playing the game. Much like how MMORPGS have people buying gold from farmers or high level characters.

But it should not be a supported thing, especially in a loot-intensive ARPG game because finding loot is the number one reason you play the game in the first place. If you go into an auction house and buy you THE best unique trousers for your character, then you will never seek better loot again and you have no real reason to continue playing the game.

>>379157468
The Chinese version actually has an in-game trading system.
I don't know if they plan to port it to the rest of us.

>>379155131
We got Primal Ancients now

>>379159990

>With how much depth the game has, it's almost a sin how shallow the current meta playstyle is.

Obvious answer is to make more builds more viable to beat most if not all content. The really shallow ultra-fast playstyles should still be the best builds because they can do everything really fast, but they should not be the only builds that can defeat the last endgame bosses.

>>379159990
Oh yeah I know double dipping is dead. I was just explaining that I didn't touch the one way that Blade Fall was kinda decent for that reason.

Even without double dipping though, if everything stays the same, Blade Vortex is still just mathematically superior.

I don't have the highest votes, but the devs seem pretty annoyed at how much players trivialized Shaper, so they should at least somewhat help the problem.

>>379159990
they won't remove the movement skills
they won't rework support gems
they won't delete vaal pact
meaning everyone will still be whirling around the map at top speed, stacking more more more on a single skill and blowing up screens of mobs with 1 button press, except this time their life bubble will be red instead of white. Waow its fucking nothing

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>>379155131
Never played diablo or path of exile.

These games seem like left-click simulators? It seems fun but what kind of challenges are there? Is the challenge in HP management, mana mangement, not pulling too many enemies, do you have to dodge abilities, or is the challenge mostly in building your character??? I just want to know what the game is like.

Should I play Diablo 2 before I play PoE?

>>379159997
>But it should not be a supported thing
It is already a supported thing, their whole premium stash deal is about those auction houses and making trading as easy as possible without actually adding the auction house. Hell, they fully acknowledge this to a point they even made a "self found" gamemode, meaning they 100% know that normally the game is unplayable by finding epics on your own. Trading is essential for this game and there's nothing they can do about auction houses at this point.

>>379159437
The fuck are you even talking about?
They've banned well known players using view distance hacks right on their stream.

I have played since closed beta and I haven't ever seen a single RMT ad.

Asian Garena-run PoE might have been a different story, but everything you've said is false about GGG PoE.

>>379155683
Well, blizzdrones are real. Remember destiny 2 butthurt?

>>379160207
everything i said is true
you might have the chat disabled if you don't see the ads

>>379159778
>Play Titan Quest, some builds require upwards of 10 skills
lol what TQ is just "pick your left click and that's your only move"

>>379160303

Only two things you're right about are autoflasks and autologouts. Not a fan of those in HC either (its called hardcore for a reason fucking macroing faggots), but the rest you just made up.

>>379160169
>Vaal Pact, Ghost Reaver and Zealot's Oath
>These keystones provided huge bonuses to Chaos Inoculation players without much of a downside. In the Beta, we'll be trying out some extreme changes to Vaal Pact and Ghost Reaver. We'll be iterating on these changes during the Beta.

Vaal Pact isn't going to be as powerful.
Movement skills don't need to be removed, just rebalanced.
Support gems are fine, but the "additional" need to be brought more in line with the "more" modifiers, with better trade offs for utility.

This is all basic stuff. You don't seem to have played long enough to remember how the game played before the meta became what it is currently.

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>mfw crafting my first 6 Link

>>379155131
I haven't touched it in a while. Is a facebreaker build still viable for a casual playthrough of most of the difficulties?

>>379160303
Are you on some backwater Chinese ripoff of PoE or something?

I've seen devs chatting in global more often than I've seen anything even remotely shady in chat.

>>379160330
>lol what TQ is just "pick your left click and that's your only move"
For 75% of builds that's true, 10% require more skill cycling than most ARPGs.

>>379160172
Yeah D2 before PoE is probably a good idea. D2 hasn't aged the best, and the atmosphere is great.
PoE is pure gameplay.
Gameplay is repetitiously pressing the same button to kill everything most of the time, yeah.
Difficulty comes in decision making of how good your gear is compared to how difficult the zones you go into are, how well you crunch the numbers and make your build, how quickly you react to big boss moves and stage hazards, how quickly you respond to X number of mobs on the screen and recognizing auras some may have or other shit that might be a risk.

HP and mana management are certainly there but the balance of the game automates them to pretty much always be full except against 100% to 0 burst damage that comes from a few sources.

>>379160290
No, but I've never paid one shred of attention to Destiny.

And you misunderstand my point. Of course "Blizzdrones" exist, but almost none of them are truly invested beyond opportunities to shitpost.
I was just commenting to the first reply, which stated the obvious, that 99% of the audience operates on. And stating the obvious isn't going to do anything about the 1% that screeches their inciting garbage at the top of their lungs because they want to stir the pot.

>>379160384
Autoflask is just cuck shit that should be normal gameplay. I hope the new graphical orbs help slightly in that regard.
Logout is obviously pussy shit and goes against the entire point of HC. It's just unfortunately the way the game has to be designed when the devs insist on always-online.

>>379160592
How "casual"?
The go-to facebreaker build right now is pretty freaking expensive with ancestral warchief totems.

>>379155683
I'll be playing in the beta to try out the new DoT changes with regard to bleeds especially.

I played a gladiator in HC legacy that used blade flurry to proc Haemophilia and Gratuitous violence. I noticed that although most of my damage scaling on the tree was global phys the bleeds themselves were still quite weak (low hit damage on blade flurry obiously diddn't help, but they still felt weak for the investment).

I'm hoping that bleed will come into it's own as a viable playstyle with the changes.

>>379160724
Yeah Gladiator is a cool design and bleed does suck ass.

Slayer is just kinda silly. Like it's still the better pick half of the time, even if you're using 1H and wasting like the extra 80% increased phys from the small nodes.

>>379160497
i played since beyond
support gems arent fine, they were supposed to change the way your skills work, like, i dunno, some 2d shmups do with "powerups", gmp/lmp/chain is all we got in reality, fork is a joke, the rest are just tweaks to numbers like dmg, cast speed/attack speed, projectile speed, etc.

i think the whole skill gem system is busted, and is actually limiting the game in its current state, like how fucking hard it is to upgrade a piece of gear because of all the linking/chroming for a specific gem set. I mean, its probably okay for people who play 15 hours a day ( i used to play that much and it felt "just right" ), but nowadays i can't be arsed to spent this much time grinding pointless shit.
>inb4 le grinding gear games makes games about grinding gear argument

>>379160957
The thing is that skills and area clear evolved to be better than using support gems to make single target skills into AoE.

>>379160717
Like I don't really intend to do much of the stuff past the campaign. I was never too interested in the map grinding stuff back when I was originally playing it.

>>379160172

Its like playing a MMORPG, except the combat is faster (enemies and you die much faster), so your reaction times have to be more keen. Instead of hitting all your abilities and your axe swing on one undead monster for 10 times, you swing once and down 10 undead monsters at once.

And if they manage to surround you and trap you, your health can go up and down very very quickly.

>>379157573
For all of it's weaknesses (and there's a lot of them) D3's engine and gameplay are extremely fluid. The numbers and particle effects on mobs can shit up the screen but the actual animations and responsiveness of the game make combat feel really good.

Honestly it's probably the only thing D3 did right, but it's damn right.

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>Fall of Oriath and Grim Dawn exp both coming out soonish
>Maybe Butterlord too

>>379155131

But anon, Path of Exile is garbage.

Imbalanced, tedious, disfunctional, with grind that rivals korean MMOs, and a trading system that is simply atrocious.

>>379161217
D3 is the only game I know of in the genre that doesn't have snooze fest boring combat.

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>>379160542

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>>379161446
It'll just be more dev diary material with no new information. It'll be 2021 before they announce a 2024 release date.

Battle Brothers 1.1 patch this month.
Starsector just got 8.1, so we'll maybe get mod updates finally.
Darkest Dungeon DLC.
More Total War Warhammer 2 stuff at E3.
>>379161502
>imbalanced, tedious grind
Yeah we know it's an ARPG.

>>379155131
Is Path of Exile any good?

>>379162196
If you want to play an ARPG, yes. It's tied with or better than Diablo 2, the other crowned monarch of the genre.
If you don't want an ARPG, no.

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>>379161834
>It'll be 2021 before they announce a 2024 release date.
Fuck off, I want to believe.

>>379159997

Oh dear, just how wrong you are...

>>379162238
Well, i fairly enjoyed Diablo 2 and just got a silent mouse

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>>379162245
I do too. But seeing as it is the best game to ever grace the world, I don't have any flowery expectations for its ETA.
The faction reveal was back in 2014

>>379162316
Go nuts then. Faster, improved gameplay with a lot more mathematical thinking involved(still pretty basic and most calculators do most of the thinking for you). A lot of really flashy and fun skills. Expect to be disappointed if you enjoyed D2 for the story and atmosphere though.

>>379162325
It kinda loses the illusion once you notice how the
objects shade of grey goes into the table

>>379160497

>ou don't seem to have played long enough to remember how the game played before the meta became what it is currently.

Heh. There was always meta. Changed, but it was always there.

Recall Snapshotting? Recall how long it took for it to be removed? How about Vaal Spark with Voltax?

>>379162463
There is no illusion and the gradient is part of the image.
The eyes scan the image and try to find some semblance of understanding at in the end you don't find any. That is what the image symbolizes.
I can't believe I bothered to explain an image macro.

>>379157679
GGG is afraid to fix trading because they've seen the effects of increased trade already with aquisition/premium tabs, poe.trade and (if they've realized it) being ableto buy extra stash tabs at all.

The basics of the ARPG fun formula are enjoyable/engaging combat against large numbers of mobs and unreliable reward structures (see: skinner box). The more effocient trading is, the less valuable drops become until it's almost never worth picking up items (like it is now). The worse this gets, the more it short circuts the reward structures of the game and drasticly cuts retention rates.

On top of this, more efficient trading results in easier access to items that enable your build to completely obliterate the majority of content with almost zero risk of death, at which point you're so strong that you don't interact meaningfully with the majority of content either and the second draw to the game is short-circuted much too early.

The big problem they have now us that the cat's already out of the bag and they don't know how to address it for the future of the game.

>>379160637

Then you mustve played some backwater source original version of PoE.

Because there was plenty of shit going on in chat.

>>379160207

They banned them because they were doing that in the open.

RMT ads are spammed non-stop, especially in the Leagues.

So who was the best boss, Malthael or Malachai?

>>379155683
Thanks doc

>>379161834

>ARPG
>Action RPG

Yeah, no.

>>379162238
>It's tied with or better than Diablo 2
do not fall for this

>>379162629
Yeah I comprehend the issue, it's just hard to explain to their audience because it's selling inconvenience the audience understands, for deeper economic function they don't.

>>379162653
Malthael is more neat except for just how cancerous the stage hazards get in the later portion.

I wish the combat wasn't so clunky.
If D3 does anything right, it's the smoothness of combat.

>>379162653
Urzael
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxOhYkiIYtw

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>>379155683

Nah I'm gonna wait until it's fully released to not spoil myself. Still haven't even decided on a build. Also playing shitcrow league for once because I can't bother reaching act 8-9 only to die to being oneshot by something off screen and have to reroll. I just know GGG will screw up on enemy balance somewhere.

Might go cyclone since they finally fixed the pathing issues. Life seems like it'll be a bit more meta this time around. Wanted to recreate my scion elemental ballista totem build from a few leagues ago. Considering they nerfed drillneck and the changes to her ascendancies don't benefit it in any major way it probably won't be worth it all though. Still hope they fucking redesign pathfinder already so we don't have to endure another speed clear meta.

>>379162629

>The big problem they have now us that the cat's already out of the bag and they don't know how to address it for the future of the game.

I guess thats where the races and new leagues step in. When "Can you beat it?" becomes trivial for players who buy everything from auction houses, then the next challenge is "Who is the quickest to first beat Shaper?" and have leaderboards for that.

For the rest like SSF-crowd, only thing they have to worry about is balancing the game to support home-brew and experimental builds more and not balance every late game boss so that it can only be defeated by 3 meta builds and nothing else.

Because for many who want to try experimental builds (like me), the goal is not to be the most efficient and fastest racer to the top, the goal is to get to the top to begin with.

Its more rewarding to climb on top of a mountain with minimal gear you brought yourself for the journey, than using an elevator someone else built for you.

it greatly annoys me that what Diablo 3 has of bad, PoE has good, and what PoE has bad, Diablo 3 has good.

they should make a game that combines the best parts of both games so we can ignore both those shitty games.

>>379162964
Cyclone has been pretty meta for awhile. Well, functional meta. Not double dipping memery meta. I like the pathing changes a lot as well.

As I commented with Blade Fall/Vortex though, Cyclone is in the same spot with Shield Charge.
I love Shield Charging shit after the rework, especially facebreaker builds.
But cyclone just ends up taking the exact same build and doing more damage.

I've played and enjoyed cyclone before, just not sure I want to do it again.

Avoiding logoutcore allows me to vaal cyclone a Breach as well, which is nice. I'm still undecided.

>>379162629
Jesus christ those errors, I should not post at 6am from my phone.

>>379163172

Yeah, I've played cyclone a couple times before. Last time I got pretty salty after I died in the middle of a breach because I bumped against a tiny rock on the ground causing cyclone to just stop dead in its tracks.

Was having fun playing the build too since I hadn't played cyclone for quite a while. Figured I'd give it another go since I was having fun with it and it got fixed.

>>379162629

You post makes no sense whatsoever.

>>379162649
>RMT ads are spammed non-stop, especially in the Leagues.

So it should be easy for you to provide proof.

>>379163172
>>379163318

Yep, cyclone, the old predecessor of blade vortex - same shit just more ancient.

>Breach
>Vaal Cyclone

Gee i wonder.

>>379163456

Probably going to be. It quadruples the amount of content by itself and casuals get their stashes filled with different found valuable items, which further encourages them to actually buy more stash space.

And it mixes up things a lot so honestly leveling up is kinda fun before mapping as well.

>>379163742

>what is burden of proof

And even if i did try to argue with you any further, i would not bother because i stipped playing it just after the start of Legacy League, and im not autistic enough to screencap every single one just to satisfy you.

>>379163456
It is the current league.
They have 5 charges, can be white or blue.
White'll be next area will contain 1 rogue exile. It also drops league specific stuff from the league that introduced rogue exiles(was it anarchy? I can't remember).
Blue will be next area will contain 1 rogue exile, each rogue exile will be accompanied by another rogue exile, each rogue exile will drop three jewels.

And shit like that. You can slot in three at a time which can make for some meme combinations, and some of the challenges represent this.
I ran a nemesis beyond dry lake that had insane yellow item generation to gear up my assassin.

Because GGG code is lazy, it was based on the Zana legacy map mods that she used to offer, so those were disabled.

They just released a dev post talking about breach and legacy stones.
Legacy stones will not be in the game moving forwards, relying on Zana mods to again get nemesis mods and beyond and shit.
It's okay I guess.
Breach, which hadn't been formerly decided upon next(because there was a legacy stone for them anyway) has been decided to be included in the game, but only for content at maps, as they felt it got in the way of how they wanted leveling to play.

>>379163597
It does, he communicates GGG's stance on the matter. There are two sides to trading in games like these.
I'm going to use Runescape as an example.

Once upon a time, Abyssal whips were added to the game.
They were a rare drop from a monster that required really high slayer skill to kill.

Your outcomes are to make it un-tradable, making the item unique for people with high slayer. Or to make it tradable.
The latter was chosen.
Thus, 99% of the people using abby whips(because they were so good at the time), had never actually played the content involved in acquiring one.

GGG don't really want this, they want to at least bring the number down. So that maybe only 70% of the people using [ITEM] haven't naturally come across it.

>>379155683
>with the exception of the imaginary Blizzdrones OP chooses to believe in.
Have you seriously never heard a WoWbabby who moved onto HS and OW say that he only plays blizzard games because everyone else makes bad games? Those fuckers were everywhere only a couple years back. Blizzard fans are absolutely fucking rabid.

>>379163943

How hard is it to just Log in, open chat, press PrtScn when an ad pops up, paste it into photoshop or Windows Paint if you're a pleb and post it here? Takes 15 minutes tops.

Not the same anon but your accusation smell fishy. Only actual macros I've seen being used is autopotions and autologouts.

>>379162562
Sure, I remember snapshotting, but it wasn't as powerful as current builds are now, and was almost not worth the effort to set up

The really broken snapshot builds didn't get much time to exist before it was removed. Around the time the hype actually caught up, GGG had already done something about it and released their video explaining it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaBsJT85c4Q
Notice how even in its most broken incarnation, rares still at least have some uptime.

The "meta" I'm referring to is clearing maps as quickly as you can move through them with multi-dipping physical abilities.

Remember back when shotgun shock-pulse was considered even even when it was actually bugged and didn't even work?
The game used to require high-end builds to clear quickly, not simply plow through everything without even having a chance to see the mods and kill every boss before they can even use an ability.

There's so much power creep at this point, that the best builds just trivialize content entirely instead of simply making it easier or quicker.
That is what I want reversed.

>>379163943
Burden of proof is on the one making the claim, you absolute idiot.

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>>379155131
SOMEONE TELL ME THE IMPORTANT SHIT!

Are there new minion types available?

POE is boring and looks like ass
Diablo 3 looks and plays better with more fun loot

>p2w trash gets new content for the first time in 4 years

>>379161834
>it's an ARPG.
not this shit again...
>"this mmo sucks, it's full of shitty fetch quests, the only thing remotely interesting is endgame, and people don't socialize at all, just sit around waiting in queues for raids/dungeons, all in all, a shitty wow clone"
>"hurr, it's an MMO."

>>379164008
cont: This is to create a sweet spot in willingness to grind certain parts of the content, which they feel necessary to maintain player retention which affects their MTX sales.

If you could toss EVERYTHING into an auction house, all NPC vendors would essentially cease to exist.
Trading exists in PoE, and proper use of it catapults you further through the game far quicker, but in its current state the net acceleration on the entire population isn't TOO substantial, as the trading system is shit; so only a certain population trades, and of them; most of them don't trade very much.

>>379164107
I've seen them. Outside of hugbox forums I have difficulty believing their sincerity.
Imagine you really dislike Path of Exile.
For whatever reason. Chris raped your sister when she went to visit some Lord of the Rings set or something.
You're not going to just say that PoE is shit, you're going to imply that the alternative is so much better.
It's that sort of behavior that always gets misconstrued for legitimate fanboyism.

And like any basic behavior it is not limited to any single franchise or developer or anything like that.

>>379164336
New skills? I think there might be a couple, but their efforts aren't focused on them.
New minion skills in particular I do not believe are in.

Might be some new desirable spectre bases at least?

>>379164228

>There's so much power creep at this point, that the best builds just trivialize content entirely instead of simply making it easier or quicker.
>That is what I want reversed.

I'm fine with power creep, as long as it means more builds become available for late game.

Unless of course the only power creep was received by the already meta builds. Then yeah, thats a problem.

D2 had most players do Uber runs as well with Hammerdins or Frost Orb (or was it Freeze Orb?) Sorcs, that shit was super-easy. But what made that game a good Arpg was that it allowed you to beat that content with crazy experimental builds as well.

And those who figure out those builds are the truly good players in this genre. Not the ones who just look for a build someone else made, buy the gear for it in an auction house then go through the game braindead.

Compare to say DS3. Nobody thinks you're the best DS3 player if you figured out you can beat Champion Gundyr super-easily by abusing parry. But beat him in some really weird and unconventionally risky way like throwing tons of Dung Pies at him, and thats kinda awesome.

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>>379164534
>New minion skills in particular I do not believe are in. Might be some new desirable spectre bases at least?

I want new permanent minion types. Spectres are still absolutely ass to manage too.

>>379164385
0.08$ cents have been deposited into your Blizzard account. :)

>>379162964
ima fucking post the spoilers every fucking day mother fucker

>>379156681
>Artist's are able to code and bugfix

i could care less about trading ( in fact i don't care at all ), but the abyssmal drop rates are what's killing the fun for me

at least give me some drop-tables, like d2, so if i really really wanted a tabula rasa, i could just slay i.e. hillock because he has a fixed 1% chance to drop a tabula.

>>379164639

They said they're going to buff existing minions, especially trying to solve the problem of having to go and grind for spectres, only for them to die immediatly in bosses.

No idea how they're going to do it though. Maybe you can assign your favorite creature its going to spawn as, prerequisite that you have to raise a spectre out of it once before it becomes available? That would make Spectres a super-interesting skill to use.

>>379164530
MMO only refers to the multiplayer component and the interaction of people. I wouldn't say that PoE pushes the multiplayer component to be central enough to be deserving the MMO tag.

The type of gameplay is known as ARPG.

I don't fucking give a shit what acronyms you choose to use, these are the most accepted ones so I use them for the most clarity when talking with other people.
If it were up to me I'd say Diablo 2 clone.

But there are a lot of people here so young they might not have played D2, or new to PC so they haven't played the classics yet, but they might have played Diablo 3 or picked up Grim Dawn on sale recently and come to understand the genre through those.

>>379164639
I really don't like minion master gameplay for whatever reason. Didn't like in D2(Bonemancer was still my favorite class though), didn't like it in Guild Wars. Just ain't my thing. I used to like having a golem and a hireling in D2 simply because it made the atmosphere more comfortable, but at this stage even being forced to include a golem in PoE for the small DPS boost annoys me. I wish I could ditch the fucker entirely.

Spectres and other temporary minions are especially shit though, you're right.

If you haven't played in awhile Golems are kinda something to try out. There are some jewels that buff your golems, change their behavior and let you have more of them and shit.
Which is okay. Ain't meta as far as I'm aware, but it's something.

I just think SRS is a clever skill for PoE to have at all, having an active skill that scales with minions to cast with otherwise minion master gameplay is decent.
Druid's ravens in D2 were good in that regard as well.

>>379164819
Trading at that level isn't too bad.
You can farm currency somewhat consistently and then make a single trade for your tabula rasa and shit.
It's about all the trading I get up to.

>>379164297

You are confusing Legal Burden of Proof and Philosophical one.

>>379164959
tabula was just an example

i think it would make perfect sense for some bosses to have higher chance to drop certain items

like shavronne would have higher chance for dropping shavronne's items, including shavs

or alira having higher chance to drop golem unique jewels

some shit like that, to allow players who don't want to trade to at least narrow down the chance getting an item they might be interested in

>>379164886
Summon necro was god tier in D2
>needed basically no gear
>the enemy AI wasn't meme shit that randomly targets the player over the minions hitting them even from off screen
>multiple different debuff curses that can be picked up with minimal investment because the effect doesn't scale with anything
>utility minions (ice/poison mages, clay golem, iron golem)
>actually big horde of dudes
>CE is the greatest spell in any arpg ever

>>379159876

Come on, you're going to call POE empty and soulless compared to Grim Dawn?

Grim Dawn feels so fucking generic every time I play it. The characters are boring as fuck, and the enemies feel extremely generic throughout the entire game.

You also move SO god damn slowly. I barely have the patience to finish a single difficulty in Grim Dawn, I can't imagine doing it 3 times to reach the actual endgame.

>>379164818

>company refuses to hire couple of coders to fix problems and do maintenance that it knows it needs to do
>hires more artists to spam mtx

>>379164858
If they did this with spectres, maybe it would be worth building a summoner again. Shit's so annoying when you go to all the effort of finding minions, only for them to be underleveled and get blown the fuck out if they're standing in the wrong place.

>>379164886
I know about golems, but the jewels which let you have more of them are extremely expensive and rare. Dual wielding two clayshapers would make me pretty squishy too, and it would mean no necromantic aegis.

>>379164886

>Didn't like in D2(Bonemancer was still my favorite class though).

I used to call him Corpse Explosion-guy instead, since that was the most fun part about Bonemancer. Once you get that first kill you cause a chain reaction like a mad bomber.

Too bad PoE corpse explosion kinda sucks. Except when monsters have them, since worst case scenario they can explode a boss corpse and kill you instantly.

Still, if minions are going to get buffed might try building a new version of Allahu-Akbar Templar. Or the poison-variant Dr.Thrax-Assassin.

>>379164819
Shitter that only uses newbie friendly/low-to-no gear builds here, this would be the nicest fucking thing, since almost every build I've come across claims 2 billion deeps and immortality, provided you've got a stash full of elder-god tier uniques that have a 0% chance of dropping.

Then again I'm sure that'd encourage me to have fun and/or not buy any shiny MTX so it'll never happen.

>>379162713
>hurrr durr i got the joke am i poplar yet guise??? GUISE PLSSSS RESPOND GUISEEEE

Fuck off.

>>379165405

I don't use trading all that much and mostly play SSF since the beginning of a new league and being forced to adapt to what you find is really fun.

I just farm for uniques in general and what sets I get determines what kind of character I'm going to create next. And then that next character is going to use them.

>>379165463
somebody tell hiroshima that posting is bugged, this is clearly meant to be two separate posts

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>>379159717
>people are autistic for expecting setting & story in their entertainment rather than mindlessly gaming a system for tens of hours on end

Yeah, they're the autists. PoE biggest failing is that it's thematically barren. There is no reason to do anything other than "because game".

Anyone else here struggle with end-game ARPGs because I just can't keep up with how much is happening on the screen.

>>379165118
I haven't played it myself for the reasons I have already stated, but I do believe so.
Maybe a net DPS loss at the really really high cast speed levels, but for optimal DPS you don't need anywhere near as much cast speed.
At least that's how it's been explained to me.

>>379165170
Perhaps, this KINDA exists with farming maps for cards, but the atlas kinda fucks with that a bit. The other issue with spreading out unique drops is that only few are good, and say nobody would do boss X because rather than have an equal chance between a shit and a good unique they were pre-disposed to a shit one.

And that some of the bosses attached to very powerful uniques thematically may be incredibly trivial to farm and could flood the market relatively to what is currently available.

>>379165206
Yeah I did play one originally, I just ended up prefering to bone spear everything instead.
>>379165364
I've never really been able to empathize with this, I never quite liked corpse explosion, I think it works far better as a hazard for the player(obviously not as extreme as bullshit PoE one-shot boss health pools though)
than as an offensive ability.
I'm the second poster replying to the thread as well, and I mentioned there that I didn't like trapsin either, I think it might just be more predisposed to skills I can either reliably kite with, with no 'ammo' restraint that sometimes afflicts corpse explosion, or otherwise just pushing through enemies in a manner that drags them away from the corpses of their fellows, rather than taking the time to set up a magnificent chain reaction.

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>>379155131
In these type of CRPGs, what is the difference between classes?

What I mean is: you're leveling up and casting the same 2 most powerful abilities repeatedly to kill enemies. Is the only difference between Wizard and Archer the fact that the abilities are spells versus arrows? Or do the different classes offer different playstyles (such as playing more carefully, playing more aggressively, setting up traps and then engaging). I'm wondering why you would pick any class over another, is it just stylistic choice?

>>379165405
imo the game is stuck in an awkward position
on one hand GGG doesnt want to make trading convinient and hassle-free because blablabla already discussed in this thread

on the other GGG doesn't want to improve droprates because that would probably make the game more casual (?) as well as disincentivize trading which is a "big social aspect of the game".

combine the both and the players are left with shitty droprates which force them to go through awkward trading.

>>379165206
I have a lvl 85 pet build going in Grim Dawn and though it's nothing like in D2 with only 5-10 pets it's still pretty fun but the charger AI for some reason makes the enemy just tunnel vision you and ignore the pets.

>>379165645
Nice retort, redditort

>>379165792
In Diablo 1 the archer and wizard played differently, but any game after that is more homogenized the later they're released.

>>379165792
thats the problem with poe
there are like 2 actual classes:

summoner, where you just run around while your minions or totems kill shit

"caster", which is anything that presses a button and monsters die in a huge aoe around/in front of you

i guess you could also differentiate trappers/miners but its essentially the same shit as "caster", just more awkward.

>>379165792
If you're not playing Path of Exile, you are mostly picking what skills to spam, which do sometimes(only rarely) lead to considerations such as you mention.

In Titan Quest the cold and earth mage have practically identical offensive spells that do the same thing with a different damage type.
Warrior in Titan Quest has an autoattack replacer that just gives a wind up buff the more you use it in a short time.
While rogue for example has a one two three third hit does critical damage. Both are mathematically simple adjustments to DPS though, while they do feel different.

Assassin in Diablo 2 is a good example of different gameplay.
One example of their skills is a similar one two three charge collection, which is then released using a finishing skill.
Some(the most meta) are just 50 100 150% dps boosts and pretty bland.

They have a later combo skill that depending on the charges you have before release, shoots out elemental projectiles, with a different element for each charge level, and projectiles that behave differently.
The finishing skills themselves can be repeated quickly in melee for higher dps, while another one is less damaging but targets an enemy far away, allowing for you to leg it.

Path of Exile is very different in that the only final difference in class selection is(well, used to be) a negligible attribute difference at start, and your position on the passive skill tree.

So a pure STR and DEX/INT are polar opposites on the map and say you could make them both a life based two hander build if you wanted to.
But the pure STR one would be much better because the DEX/INT would have to waste points getting over to the better health and 2H nodes.

Recently they added mini-classes on top of the existing classes that offer specific buffs for certain gameplay types.
Which means that non-witch minion masters are shit, non-shadow trap users are shit(relatively speaking, if they're properly balanced at the time).

>>379166115
>Grab those minefield gems
nobody ever does this
not only you have to carry them with you, but you also have to have a matching color socket available for swapping

>>379165739

>I'm the second poster replying to the thread as well, and I mentioned there that I didn't like trapsin either, I think it might just be more predisposed to skills I can either reliably kite with, with no 'ammo' restraint that sometimes afflicts corpse explosion, or otherwise just pushing through enemies in a manner that drags them away from the corpses of their fellows, rather than taking the time to set up a magnificent chain reaction.

If you're patient, its a lot of fun to do. And the idea of controlling your own army made of suicide bombers is a lot of fun, why I also liked playing GLA a lot back in C&C Generals.

Its a slower way to clear mobs but you can shower entire maps in gibs.

>>379156963
d3 shill gtfo

>>379165792
>In these type of CRPGs, what is the difference between classes?

Depends on the game. Path of Exile has the least difference, in a way that you can make a Witch play like a melee warrior if you really want, its just much easier to build an actually viable warrior out from Marauder.

In PoE its all about the 3 colors, Red/STR, Green/DEX, or Blue/INT. And all heroes are basically "how easy is it to build this color character or combination of these 2 colors?". That blonde chick Scion you can play as is basically a clean slate that starts from the middle and you can build her however you want, with some unique aspects close to her skill tree.

>>379166634
right click the popup

>>379166634
right click

>>379165792
>>379166307
Fuck, hit character limit.
Short cont:
At the end of the day, playing ARPGs, unless it is your first game you probably start the character creation process with what skill you want to use.
In Path of Exile and you want to use cyclone, your best option is nine times out of ten going to be STR/DEX, because it is near all the pertinent nodes and its ascendancy gets the most DPS out of the skill.

In Diablo 2 it's what skill you want to use.
If you want to be a werebear and smash fuckers apart with your bear hands, then you have to play druid.
If you want to send out shards of ice that shatter everything on the screen except you into tiny pieces, like the cunt at the end of Terminator 2; then you play Sorceress.

Your observation that you're casting the same 2 abilities the entire time. This is an inescapable fact of the genre. So you typically go with what feels the best.

Like me, I posted early in the thread that I really like Blade Fall, it feels good and is fun to use and I can pretend to be a retarded japanese re-imagining of an ancient Mesopotamian king.
In Diablo 2 I really liked bone spear and cold sorceress because the skills are satisfying to use.
It is satisfaction of skill use that I feel keeps D2 and PoE on top of the genre compared to games like Grim Dawn.

The bottom line is you play for skills and choose the class that enables you to use it, either with only one class having it in most ARPGs, or scaling the most damage out of it, like in Path of Exile.

>>379166335
Was there anything better in Zero Hour than abusing the map and sneaking demolition bikes off a cliff right into the opponent's base?
I can't think of any such thing.

>>379166815

>Was there anything better in Zero Hour than abusing the map and sneaking demolition bikes off a cliff right into the opponent's base?
I can't think of any such thing.

I had one online match where I stopped enemy players army of Battlemaster tanks with Juhziz, by strapping all my workers with explosives, then running them straight under the tracks of the approaching tanks.

reminder the new mtx ui is going up today

All you good goys can finally play barbie easier

>>379165792

>I'm wondering why you would pick any class over another, is it just stylistic choice?

At the end of the day all characters kill thousands and thousands of mobs of enemies in the game. How you want to do it and feel badass when you're doing it is all up to you.

Generally its good to have an ability that can clear mobs of weaker enemies, and ability that is good against one singular enemy and then all things in between.

For the simplest Normal difficulty example: You play Duelist or Marauder with an axe or a sword. Cleave lets you hit enemies in a cone in front of you, you use that most of the time against common trash mobs. Then you see yellow-colored or unique enemies which are tougher opponents, for that you use Heavy Strike which only hits one target but does way more damage.

But thats really all up to you, you can add a support gem to Heavy Strike so that it actually does Area of Effect Damage and skip the cleave completely, or you can make yourself tanky as fuck, put all your damage on Cleave, add a fuckton of attack speed and crit chance and swing that Cleave attack in machine gun speed.

>>379155131
new league when?

>>379168120
End of July.
Or beta 3.0 which is up in two days if you think that counts as a league and are willing to get lucky/give GGG money/do well in races for a beta key.

>>379165148
No, I am not.
If you can't back up your bullshit claims, you should stop making shit up.

>>379167310
>mtx ui
oh so thats how it ended up
from
>"each league will have its own custom UI"
to
>"we'll make a new custom UI for you to buy each league"

>>379168942
You misunderstand.
The tab you open to use your mtx is no longer shit, less pulling items out, unequipping the mtx and slapping it on another item and shit.
Not having to dig through all your characters to fine the one mtx you lost. Shit like that.

There is a new hud for 3.0 though.
No naked ladies on the health and mana orbs though. Better than gay lions at least.

>>379169104
oh my bad then

>>379169206
Yeah it's a nice addition.
They probably only did it in preparation for the 'Bone audience though.

>>379168852
i dont even have poe installed, but you are being weird right now
do you have global chat enabled? Don't you notice the users with weird names spamming messages like
># # # # EXALT 0.99$ ### POE. !#!# RMT !#!#! . COM ### BUY NOW AND GET 10 CHAOS FREE ##!#!#!

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>>379155131
I don't give a shit about PoE, so it makes little difference what the game gets. The devs proved time and again they have no idea how to balance the game, and they purposefully lied to the community with the console release so why would I care about it?

Here's hoping Grim Dawn gets a new expansion.

>>379169985
If you are deeply, insatiably autistic you become one of the legacy unique hoarders in standard.

If you're sane you do it to trick out your cool build and enjoy the league and then stop.
If you care enough you do shit like this for youtube shekels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L17oPmP8ORo&t=46s

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>>379170095
turdbird

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>>379155131
>hot guy in image
>it's probably a god or some shit you'll have to kill in these new acts
>it's still a "everything is shit ever, all your heroic actions never change the world for the better" setting
>they'll probably add a bunch of new currencies to fill out your tabs and force you to buy more
And THAT is another reason why I prefer Grim Dawn.

>>379163171
God damnit this.

I love the deepness of PoE but I fucking love the combat of Diablo 3

Wastes build on my barb feels so smooth to play, and I'm honestly hyped for the necromancer, I just wish there was that extra level of depth

Then again Diablo 3 takes maybe 20 hours to set up a good build and shit on upper torments, PoE seems to take fucking ages, then again I just started playing

>>379170574
No(that I'm aware of) new currencies, but quite a bit more item mods, so rolling an actual good item will probably get harder.

>>379165925
kill yourself retard

>>379159504
That's why it's called "ARPG"
This is games about RPG elements that directly affects combat, builds, items and etc
Go play slashers and other shit for combat system

>>379170709
I don't care about mods, what I do care is the fact that for an item with no official currency the 300 different crafting items that are used as coins and have minuscule stacks smell like a system created to force you to buy enough tabs for this game to be more expensive than a paid ARPG.

It gets even worse when you consider the number of recipes that require entire items to be stored until you can trade the entire thing in a specific vendor. How the fuck do people even defend this game?

>>379171165
Oh yeah for sure the tabs are malevolent, I'm just saying that I don't think 3.0 will bring any new "necessary" microtransactions like new stash tabs.

I don't care much for defending the game, but if I did I'd cite the fact that there isn't actually a price tag on the game itself.
Shady practices but the end result isn't very expensive for how many hours most people get out of the game.

>>379171165
are you poor or what? just buy a stash tab pack when its on sale

and a currency tab

and essence tab

and don't forget the quadruple-tab for extra efficiency

oh and upgrade your tabs to premium so you can actually trade and rename and recolor your tabs

>>379171165

Then work with normal tabs, theres enough of them for you to collect anything you want. New tabs just make sorting and logistics in it more convenient.

You could deal with a shitty stash in Diablo 2, you can deal with it here.

>>379171536
each charater in diablo 2 had seperate stash
here you have to create actual new accounts if you want to mule ( and you do, if you dont want to pay for tabs )

>>379155683
>bringing up /pol/ out of nowhere
?

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>>379165792
basically there are 4 classes, magic, minions, melee, and guy who's pretending to be melee but is actually magic

Magic guy is the class the game was made for and will have no problems throughout the entire game until a reflect mob at which point he might have to pay attention for 4 seconds

Minion guy is like magic guy except he has his minions or totems do all the work for him so there is no chance he'll have problems with a reflect mob. It's basically like playing with cruise control on.

Melee guy goes through hell for most of the game until his build finally clicks together at which point he becomes doomguy but then rubberbanding becomes the bane of his existence

And Guy who's pretending to be melee but is actually magic is like melee except when he swings he turns the screen into sparkly particle effects. They hide the fact they are actually wizards by having their damage scale with 'phys', whatever that is.

There's a rumor that trap builds exist but it's never been done don't bother.

>>379171607
also muling is a pain in the ass, since in poe half the time spent playing is actually stash/inventory management, vendoring items, doing chaos recipes, prophecies, etc. So you'd just have to have one or two extra poe clients open all the time, depending on the number of extra stash space you need

the devs don't forbid it though, so its still manageble

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>>379171801
>melee

>>379171450
>are you poor
I spend my money wisely, why would I put my cash into a game that requires more money and offers less content and of worse quality than another one of the same genre? This is just rotten berry on the top of the pile of crap you have to deal with in this game, such as the devs "balancing" the fun out of every working build, a terrible story that makes you wonder if there was any writer, the terrible optimization...
Things just keep adding up, and many of them won't get any better as the development continues.

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>path of pay for trade

>>379155131
i tried playing d3 again recently

The first act is painfully dull, every single mob takes like 20 seconds to even notice you before they start attacking. Blizz became afraid to kill its players, and it ruined both diablo and wow. Its a shame, because I really enjoy the spell visuals and thinkt he wizard class is amazing.

>>379171607

>here you have to create actual new accounts if you want to mule

Then create them. Then you have a mule with 4 stashes per each mule. Much better than mules in D2

>>379172113
>path of only one parroted complaint

feels good to know this is all the whiners can come up with

Do you still have to figure out the conversion rates for however many currencies are in the game now to complete builds or can you reliably farm gear?

>>379172028
it was humor.

i wish poe would be a better game than what it ended up as, alas im not a dev and devs only listen to reddit
the worst part is that even in its current state, poe still has no competition, and thus, no incentive to improve, all they have to do is constantly "balance" the game, shifting the power from one build to another to keep the crowd happy, while pumping out overpriced mtx, hiding behind "i-it's just a little gift for supporting us, you arent actually b-buying it"

>>379172454
In the current state of the game there's quite a few builds that can beat shaper solo self found. So if you know what you're doing, currencies are not a problem at all.

>>379172534

Problem with Auction Houses is they can destroy the whole point of the game at worst case scenario. Diablo 3 for a really good example. Theres a reason they removed that shit with the expansion.

>>379172534
If grim dawn stepped up it's game it would be a serious competitor, it's one step above on everything PoE is, but because they have longer development cycles I don't see it happening.

>>379172861
be it my way, id just remove trading whatsoever
it does nothing but deny you the moment of joy when the item you wanted finally drops, while also distracting you from the actual game.

granted, something would need do be done about droprates as well

>>379173063
its also one step below poe in regards to visuals and sound design, and both of these are really important in making the game feel good

>>379172113
>Acquisition is not free
hmmm

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>>379171650

>>379173289
>feel good
Gameplay is what matters though.

>>379155931
You can always buy supporter packs for beta access. I guess it's pretty fair deal.

>>379155931
The harder races are a guarantee if you can finish them, or reach the the highest tier of rewards
Only 6 people out of 56 didn't get a key from BLAMT

>>379173454
Animations and combat sounds greatly contribute to the feedback the player gets.

>>379174040
Animations on Grim Dawn are pretty good though, combat sounds also isn't bad. Gameplay is still the defining factor, hell balance alone is the defining factor.

>>379173454
and im talking about gameplay...
you need to provide player with proper feedback for his actions in order to make gameplay feel good. Game feel is a separate category of what makes a game good, and it's something nublizzard pays a lot of attention to, be it hearhstone, overwatch, hots or diablo3. See how many people in these threads praise d3 for it, its a very important aspect in game design, that can carry the entire game on its shoulders ( see how popular games like overwatch, diablo3 or hots get, despite them having objectivelly inferior gameplay compared to other games, and its not just due to brand loyalty )

poe animations are on point ( most of the time ), sounds are crisp and impactful, art-style is coherent and goes well with the genre. It feels good

grimdawn is clunky, slow, artstyle is a mess, looks like amateur diablo3, with none of the benefits, sound design is weak, overall it feels like a chore to play, and while its gameplay might be better than poe, it doesn't feel that way.

>>379158324
>talks about PoE devs going full jew and releasing skins 24/7
>yeah but Diablo 3 had a jew AH that was removed and acknowledged by devs as a mistake years ago, it's totally the same thing.

>>379174357

And now Blizz jews up with one character class costing as much as an expansion pack.

So Blizzard is still worse.

>>379174273
>feel feel feel feel
There's a specific animation for every attack, several passive abilities have their own animations and effects, that shit doesn't even happen on D3 or PoE. There's sound effects for them as well.

You want to say grim dawn is bad you better come up with something better than feefees backed by generic statements.

>>379157186
>It's weird how a game that doesn't have microtransactions anymore gets less updates than 3 games that have multiple examples of them.

>>379174564
quantity != quality

the fact that something exists doesn't mean that that something is good.

you might be a crate's fanboy though, in which case my words would be lost upon you. And i by no means promote poe as a great game, it sucks, i don't even play it anymore, but grimdawn was a lot worse

>>379174915
Then why is it bad on grim dawn and why is it good on either PoE or D3, plus what makes it bad and what makes it good?

You are not arguing there ain't a single substance to your posts.

>>379175162
>poe animations are on point ( most of the time ), sounds are crisp and impactful, art-style is coherent and goes well with the genre. It feels good

>grimdawn is clunky, slow, artstyle is a mess, looks like amateur diablo3, with none of the benefits, sound design is weak, overall it feels like a chore to play, and while its gameplay might be better than poe, it doesn't feel that way.
shoudl have probably said "grimdawn's animations are clunky..." although game speed is also a contributing factor to game feel

i don't quite understand what are you trying to argue against. Do you seriously disagree that grimdawn visuals and sounds suck in comparison to poe or d3?

PoE attack animations aren't anything to write home about, its the impact effects and animations which make the abilities give that good oomph-feeling to them. Good blood splatters, zombies get cut in half from a strike, explosions shake the screen, etc.

>>379175378
>poe animations are on point
What defines on point, frames used? Length of the animation, how compatible they are with the real world (i.e. how natural they look)?
>sounds are impactful
That ain't even a word, do you mean their wavelenght? Their pitch?
>art style is coherent
You CAN NOT be talking about D3, the game got so much slack for how the color composition put everything on the same tone and a few shades far too light for the genre. PoE too, the game was consistently called a muddy mess by every new player.

All that being said the main reason why players give up of both PoE and D3 is because several abilities are absolutely garbage at endgame, several builds aren't playable as well because they weren't to the developers liking, and both games have a lacking itemization.

D3 because your builds are predetermined by which set you are playing, you need a specific item and it needs to be ancient and it needs to have the stats on a certain range, anything else is useless.
PoE because on top of the stat ranges you have to deal with the type of crafting they picked, and the gem sockets. Still better than D3

Lastly D3 shouldn't even be on this list because the enemy designs are absolutely garbage, you don't have to take in account the ranged attack arcs or their element, you just need to pass the gear check for that level of torment/grift.

>>379176296
Are you a machine or just an autist?

>>379155131
>Everywhere people suggest to play this game instead of Diablo because it is "so much better"

>install the game and chose a character, I get in and graphics are literally shit tier D2 wannabe in HD

>Language options is only in English so I have to translate every fucking objective to friends playing with me because they are illiterate fucks

>manage to get through the first area to the city and start talking to NPC I couldn't care less about even if I tried

>try to buy stuff but there is a million different retarded currencies made to make you waste inventory space and jew you into buying stash space

>start upgrading my character with a retarded orb branching system that is needlessly complicated and have to already know beforehand what I want to play at higher level because if I get too many points wrong my endgame build is gonna be shit and I'll have to level someone from the beginning

>my skills are all related to some gems I have to put in my equip as a more retarded runeword system from diablo 2 making it so that most of the yellow stuff I find is shit because of different colored gem slots from the ones I need

>after understanding these system then I am submerged by leaguestones that make green ghosts appear on every map with multiple different kinds I still have to understand

>get to a cavern in act 1 and I can't understand where the fuck I'm going because the map you get with tab is the same colo as the floor. When I feel it could not go worse I get to the prision and the map gets even worse.

I'm still only 4 hours deep in this and I'm already to the point of puking , I would go back to D3 but after a week I've already done everything I wanted to do for this season and I don't have any ncentive anymore.
Does it get better in the endgame or is it the same shit? I tought this was supposed to be a good game but everything I've seen in the early game is better on D3 and everyone hates D3.

>>379176997
Yup that's the game. Still miles better than D3, close to D2's quality as well.

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>>379176418
At least he's trying to get you to be objective and disregard your "feelings" about the games.

>>379174532
>And now Blizz jews up with one character class costing as much as an expansion pack.
Do you work at blizzard and know the price they are asking for the necromancer pack? last time I checked it still was undisclosed and you were pulling shit out of your ass.

>So Blizzard is still worse.
When I see a 110$ sparkly scorpion on the Battle.net shop I'll agree

>>379177502
To what end? Forms of entertainment can't be dissected to just raw data. Objectivity in fun is one of the stupidest things this board ever came up with.

>>379177434
Not for a casual experience with friends, the game is hell for me, I've needed more time in forums to read multiple guides or wiki pages then I've actually played, the story is completely non existant, and any fun I could get from playing is getting buried by multiple retarded systems and an archaic interface copied straight from D2.
I could never see myself enjoying my first 100 hours more then I did with Diablo 3.
I can see why people that play only ARPGs for years could like PoE more because of the added content but that doesn't make it any less true that D3 is a much more polished experience for some casual fun.

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>>379177670
>Forms of entertainment can't be dissected to just raw data.

>>379177670
>can't be dissected by raw data
Oh boy you couldn't be more wrong.

>>379178359
Link me to the wiki page of the fun particle.

>>379178169
D3 is more polished in the first couple of hours yeah. But the system is pretty static. PoE is a different type of game with fuck all story but far more in depth build decisions to make.

It isn't entirely new player friendly but the amount you have to learn isn't much.
Not too multiplayer friendly either I guess. I don't play ARPGs in party though, I'm a drag on everyone else's fun.

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>>379178359

>>379178327
>Show me proof that something can't be done
>Inb4 "merely pretending"

>>379178451
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine

>>379155683

>that reaction image
>that filename

you are a newfaggot, stfu

>>379179170
And how does this quantify enjoyment?
>Defines it
>Defines a system designed to condition behavior
>Does not dictate how fun a form of entertainment is

>>379179268
How new do you guess, my omniscient friend?

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>>379155131
Between Path of Exile and Pilars of Eternity 2, which should I invest my money in? I've only ever played Torchlight 1/2 and Diablo 3.

P.S. - I actually liked Diablo 3

>>379179481
Pillars of Eternity 2 is not an ARPG.
Pillars of Eternity 2 is also not out.
The answer is simple.

>>379179481
for poe, you're going to need to put in some work. if you don't want to do that, just keep playing d3.

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>>379156307
your pic is precisely why I gave up on PoE; that can only happen to you so many times before you get frustrated enough to drop it.

>>379179481
Path of Exile is free. The only cost is stash tabs to not make your life suffering at end game.
Try it and see if you like it.

Fuck all kikestarter shit.
Not to say it's a bad game, just to say kickstarting shit. Especially Pillars of Eternity, the worst parts of the first game was working all the backer trash into the game.

Diablo 3 isn't a bad game, it's just a weird ARPG. It's considered bad in that it steers away from the central design of the more popular ARPG games. Then what it does to stand on its own and attract a different audience it doesn't really manage either. It's just meh.

>>379155131
Actually having a finished game and more players

>>379179787
that's definitely not the pic I posted kek

>>379179310
>And how does this quantify enjoyment?
It doesn't and we don't have the computing power for that just yet but it's the mechanism.
It's foolish to say
>Forms of entertainment can't be dissected to just raw data.
with such certainty since what we really need for it is for example the Hamiltonian of a person witch we need more computing power for.

To be fair, for as wide as Path of Exile is, it's incredibly shallow, with only a few viable builds at endgame right now.

They've refused to balance ES vs HP for ages now, and the game has really suffered for it.

>>379180090
Everyone understands your point. It being theoretically possible doesn't matter when right now it cannot be done. Which is the answer to the discussion right now.

Not to mention that the ceiling for your observation is raised even further having to adjust for each individual.

>>379180090
I see what you mean, however, it's not currently possible and until it is, you can't just say "Fun will be quantifiable!" You can describe fun and the degree to which one had fun, but you cannot truly quantify it at present. And the present is all that matters in this current discussion.

>>379176997

Trying to play video games as a non-white must be really difficult.

>>379180292
Yeah clearspeed meta is a hard horse to rein in.

ES and doubledipping are both being addressed, thankfully. They just need to axe vaal pact and we're in a pretty good spot.

>>379180292
>They've refused to balance ES vs HP for ages now
The funny part is, it's been at this balancing-point overall for literal years. It's just that people always regarded ES as the high-cost niche build setup. Then with Essence League that all changed as good ES-based gear became infinitely more common. And then we got 9+ months of blue cock down our throats because everyone realized just how much better it is than Life coupled with low barrier to entry. Oh and HoWaA, but that's a whole different issue.

>>379180474
>axe vaal pact
It no longer applies to ES and that's probably enough.
>Inb4 no builds should be allowed to instantly Leech back all their HP
Even if VP got obliterated, Crown of the Pale King + Retch still exists. VP on life-builds who can only gain upwards of ~8.5K HP at max potential are fine with VP. The real problem was having upwards of ~25K ES and being literally unkillable.

>>379172636

More like if you are lucky enough to get a required drop in SSF.

>>379180804

>no builds should be allowed to instantly Leech back all their HP

Marauder Berserker - 100% HP Leech if taken a hit that takes more than 30% of HP.

I've seen this build - two Obliteration wands, ES, Chaos Innoculation, Ghost Reaver... 6L Blade Vortex...

Yea, build that chomps through all of the game as if it was a bite-size cookie.

GGG doesnt know how to balance for shit. Its either nerfs or gamebreaking builds.

>>379179481
Grim Dawn, Titan's quest and Diablo 2.

>>379181537
>Obliteration CI Ghost Reaver
Except I'm talking about Life-based.
CWDT Berserker is a Life-based build that is borderline immortal as well as having the option of melting Guardians in 2 seconds flat.

>>379181537
To be fair though, 99% of the "Game" happens in the 0.5s it takes to kill an enemy instantly, or the 0.5s it takes to die instantly.

It's not really a surprise the balance sucks when you've got such a short space of time for stuff to actually matter.

>>379182426
It's only immortal as long as you keep up your flask rotation. If you mess up you die instantly.
One of the least hardcore viable builds.

>>379182605
CWDT Berserker is a build known for being able to AFK bosses. That means no flask triggers/flask macro or any button presses.

>>379180420
>Implying bad design is not universal
>Implying non-white if english is your second language
>Implying tanned Italian and cotton pickers are the same thing

Inquisitor martyr is my last hope for a good 40k game.

>>379182592

And i suppose you would say same for bosses?

Because no matter how it is twisted, it comes to this: either GGG is pushing this retarded meta, and are lying about how clearspeed meta is not what they want for the game, OR, they are incompetent and unwilling to fix it. Reasons for either? Profit and RMT.

>>379182756
I'd advise you to not reply to such garbage bait in the future. Keeps the thread a lot more clean. Getting replies encourages them as well.

Although
>Italian
practically negro.

>>379182950

No, I agree absolutely. They've made this mess, and chances are it's not by accident.

>>379182756
Isn't Italy like 60% Muslim these days?

>>379158560
Pretty accurate

>>379158560

Considering all the RMT bullshit, lying, PR, and MTX, Xbone, TenCent, id say that the poor kid read too much Machiavelli and keeps his relations and shady deals under cover.

One is just as bad as the other - take your pick.

The new Acts are just nothing but reused assets. And it has no effect on the endgame which has no new additions at all.

D3 adds stash space, some new areas that are both part of non-endgame and endgame, new items that are viable, but most importantly a new class that plays completely differently from the others actually adding a more legitimate new game experience.

POE has cool systems, but they all in the end just lead to building a character that spams one move and spends tons of nodes on ES/Life while having to deal with desync that fucks up your HC run.

>>379158560
And yet D3 has more content, more sales, higher average over the years on Google Trends, more active YouTube community, more active forums, even more interest in Necro compared to POE's 3.0

Vocal minority on the internet aside, D3 has been nothing but a success. Alongside Overwatch it's Blizzard's best selling game of all time and around 10th or 11th best selling of all time.

>>379184625
>no effect on the endgame
Pantheon and the fact they will much more than likely have Map versions of some bosses and their areas replacing some shit bosses/duplicates.

>>379184954
Pantheon isn't endgame though is it? Sounds more like a pre-endgame so far. I want content beyond Shaper/Uber Atziri.

>>379185342
Maps are endgame and the Pantheon requires you to kill a bunch of specific Map Bosses to get their full effects.
>post-Shaper, Uber Atziri
Fair enough, I suppose. You want to push something new that's tougher than that. I generally agree, but we'll see.

>>379155131
D3 is pretty boring, I do like 1 area bounties and one rift run and get bored, only at level 422 but I don't see much change in anything really, my sole motivation for even playing right now is just to fill out the powers catalog because of autism just to have it look nice and complete. But getting the materials from bounties is so tedious. PoE switches things up so often it hardly gets boring, now they even announced that your hideout is shared between all leagues so you don't have to grind favor anymore that was the main reason I didn't bother with hideouts but now I can make a comfy place.

>>379186124

>your hideout is shared between all leagues so you don't have to grind favor anymore

Nice, but still bad, and insufficient.