ITT: things DS2 did objectively better than DS1. I'll start:

Guts sword is gud

DS2 didn't do movement right at all. It all felt weirdly floaty, clunky, dunno how to put it into words.
It did do right quite a few other things though.

For example it gets a lot of shit for ADP, or more precisely AGI, which influences the invulnerability duration on your rolls.
Dark Souls isn't just an action game, it has various character attributes governing over what they can or can't do.
To block effectively you need to: first find a suitable shield with good damage reduction, have enough strength to hold it, have enough endurance to not being slowed down, have enough stamina to not have your guard broken, spend souls and titanite to upgrade the shield's stability.
To become fully invincible to any and all damage during a dodge you need to: press the roll button.

Anyway, DS2 did good in some other aspects too. Like environmental interaction. For example being drenched in water increased your fire resistance, but decreased resistance lightning. The powder kegs could have been blown up with fire damage, but rolling through them just broke them.

It let you actually do a pure spellcaster playthrough with consumables that restore spell uses. It had many different consumables in general, which is always good.

Also, it offered a huge variety of weapons to choose from, even if they weren't drastically different. For example if you were a dexfag, but really liked a greatsword weapon type moveset, you could find one that scales well with dex, instead of settling for the typical dex weapons.

>>379154732
You have more directions you can roll in 2 than in one.

Even if it feels floaty, the added movement options with rolling are an objective improvenent.

>>379154918
I dunno about that. While it's true, you can roll in any direction, DS2 doesn't have the auto targeting on the roll attacks, like the first one had. So being limited in the direction of the roll in the first game didn't really handicap you, since you'd still be facing the opponent if you did the roll attack. But in DS2 you just find yourself facing in the direction of the roll.

Music:Sentinels, last anus, old dragonslayer
Lucathiel(?)
Some armors and weapons
Dualwield

>>379154237
better performance
better controls

The design of the standard mobs is the best in the series

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>>379154237
whips

>>379154237
Torch.
Break down doors, explode walls.
Powerstance, twohanding your left handed weapon easily and handling weapons with their full movesets in your left hand.
Big weapon parries.
Infuse just about everything.

>>379155312
Also fists.

Ew

Childhood is thinking DeS is the best game.
Adolescence is thinking DS1 is best game.
Adulthood is realizing DS2 is best game.
Senility is thinking BB is even worth considering.

>>379155991
>No DS3
based
>DS2 is good
wut

>>379156110
DS3 doesn't exist. Why do you lie about such a terrible game being real?

>>379155065

Are you really arguing that being able to manually aim your rolling attacks is a step back?

>>379154237
>forced midroll
>better
The omnidirectional rolling while locked-on is technically an improvement but what kind of idiot uses lock-on in a Souls game?

Aiming with a bow and chosing your arrows wasn't fuck-ass retarded.

>>379156192
No, he's arguing the opposite - being able to aim them is better, which is why DS2 is a step back, since they gimped rolling attack directionals.

>>379155991
Childhood is thinking DS1 is the best game.
Adolescence is claiming DS2 is the best game, even though you don't actually think that, in order to be hip.
Adulthood is not using shitty meme metaphors like this one.

>>379156328
This. Bows were so much better in DS2, and people actually pretend Bows in DS3 are good.

>>379156192
Your turn rates are severely gimped in 2.

>>379156332

'cause it makes so much sense to do a 180 on momentum after a roll. Rolling attack aiming is just stupid.

Graphics

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>>379154237
the pvp is alright
pve is garbage and no one cares about it and neither it's changes
that's about it

NG+, one thing that 3 MUST have learned from 2

>>379156546
If the enemies can 360 no scope, why can't I?

>>379156450
You can't free-aim with bows without the shitty first person mode in 2, it fucked bows, spells and throwing weapons HARD.

>>379156618

But that's just a lie, Anon. Don't believe the shitposts. DS2 is actually the best Souls game.

>>379156546
You know what else makes no sense? Basically everything in Dark Souls, but it's still an enjoyable vidoegame, but DS2 is less of an enjoyable vidoegame because it lacks fluid movement.

>>379156546
>but being able to aim your roll attacks is better
>yes that's what he said, you can't aim them in DS2
>uh then obviously it's better not to aim them cause DS2 can do no wrong
DS2 contrarians in a nutshell

It didn't have a stage as bad as Lost Izalith but all the bullshit it altogether had was far worse than that stage

>>379154237
fuck this game so hard
fuck the boss environments` design (either the boss is big and the area is small or vice versa giving no room for maneuvers) and fuck its artificially diffcult bosses
fuck the shitty map designs with its shitty fucking bonfire placements
fuck life gems
fuck the boring uncaptivating lore
worse dark souls ever, all the other fagggots praising it can fuck off with their delusions
(and yes btw i played this shitty fucking awful game to the end since i had closure and realised how fucked it is midway)

>>379155991
dont kid yourself P-cuck you havent even played demons

>>379156618
PvP was a joke, it's just "see who can break the game first"
>Get greatsword
>go to iron keep for those dragon covenant dildos
>summon
>bait them on bridge
>2h R2
>hit a home run
>watch as they fall into the lava and get sent hatemail.

>>379156653
>shitty first person mode in 2

Which is still leagues above DS1's over the shoulder camera where your view gets blocked by the player model since they apparently saw no need in making it translucent and the path of the arrow doesn't even line up properly with your crosshair due to the perspective.

>>379156717
>the toilet the pve is makes it the best game
you mean the enemies that skip animations to hit you, the terrible bosses and the shitty main game? the only good pve content are the dlcs and this has been said so many times now, you need to have literal autism to the defend the terrible dark souls 2 main game, with the 3 decent areas being heides, drangleic castle and dragon shrine/dragon aerie

>>379156653
Bows do more damage and have way better tracking. Why would you need to freeaim anyway if you don't snipe? The tracking eliminates all need for freeaiming.

>>379156945
I'm doing the DLC for the first time now. I think i'm doing sunken king, it's the worst area iv'e ever played in a souls game ever. I fucking hate it and can't finish it. Main game is better so far my dude.

>>379156945
>3 decent areas being heides, drangleic castle and dragon shrine/dragon aerie

And even those are debatable with Heide being nothing but a corridor with a fork in the road and a tiny underground section, Drangleic Castle being an unfinished mess designed by someone completely batshit insane and Dragon Aerie being turned into a straight line in SotFS.

>>379156752

So a 180 change of momentum is suddenly fluid?
Do I have to remember you how fluid DS1 was? Because it wasn't.
Only DS3 has this faster "fluid" movement what dumbed the game down a lot.
Spamming R1 and then doing 30 rolls might be fluid but it's also shit.

>>379157301
>So a 180 change of momentum is suddenly fluid?
Yes, in a videogame it is.

>>379156861
Seems you just suck at PvP, DS2 has objectivly the best designed PvP.

>>379156930
Atleast you are able to freely aim anything without using it in the other games. 2 just has horrible free aim with like 3 shitty angles you can throw shit in, 45 degrees up, straight, or at your feet.

>>379157301
>Only DS3 has this faster "fluid" movement what dumbed the game down a lot.
>Spamming R1 and then doing 30 rolls might be fluid but it's also shit.
Oh this argument again, DS3 is a straight upgrade from 2 in literally every single way.
>>379157373
False, there are far more viable builds in DS3.

>>379157171
What's wrong with it? Great level design, great bosses and no ganks.

>>379157171
Sunken King sucks, but gets progressively better as you near the end.
Iron King is alright if you're fine with running from shit.
Eleum Loyce was genuinely fun up until the Frozen Outskirts. That retroactively soured the entire DLC for me.

>>379157364
Can't make this shit up. So the next Souls game should you let change your jumping attack direction?
And what do you think about animation cancle of DS2 then? Wouldn't that be "fluid"?

>>379157408
>DS3 is a straight upgrade from 2 in literally every single way
This thread has already arguements against this.

>>379157072
Because using lock on for any spells, grenades or anything ranged really is a sign of retardation? That shit doesn't hit anything wich isn't standing still.

>>379157490
>So the next Souls game should you let change your jumping attack direction?
That wouldn't be balanced.
>And what do you think about animation cancle of DS2 then?
There are animation cancels in every Souls game. Canceling attacks during wind-up was one of the only positive changes of DS2, but sadly it was only possible because of the slowed pace of combat.

>>379157556
Except it does in DS2. Have you even used anything ranged?

>>379157554
Yes, and they all consist of "but muh contrarian hipster sensibilities, I didn't play the game after it released at all"

Unlike DS2 which started decent and got progressively worse with patches, DS3 started decent and got progressively better with patches.

>>379157373
>best designed pvp
>a game where you can win by not playing the game
you can literally win in arena by trading your opponents with ring of thorns + katana and run around with passive restoration items/replenishment until you win
don't even get me started on a good player with a shield, enjoy chipping away for 10 minutes

>>379157620
Nigger you can just strafe to dodge almost any projectile just like every other Souls game.

>>379157490
Not so suprisingly jumping attacks track like hell in ds2, wich looks stupid as fuck.

But on a serious note, freedom of movement is essential in action games that like to surround you with enemies, wich is what ds2 is known for, and then decides to hinder your movement compared to other entries in the series.

>>379157658
No, you can't. Just look up a PvP video with bows. You have to roll or you get hit.

>>379157829
>wich is what ds2 is known for, and then decides to hinder your movement compared to other entries in the series.

You'd think there'd be a lot of choke points in the level design or something.

>>379157620
Some slight projectile tracking isn't going to cut it WHEN YOU CAN'T FUCKING AIM

>>379157878
You can though? Bows used to track perfectly in old DaS2, but in SOTFS you can simply outstrafe them, or you know, use a shield,

>>379157976
You can aim, just not in third person (which you don't need to due to the good tracking)

>>379154237
Fucking thank you.
Only shitters prefer the frantic rolling of DaS1 or 3. Shit is ridiculous and casuals flock to its brand of panic-rolling any day.

In DaS2 you actually have to time your shit. I played with a whopping 14 ADP and rolls functioned perfectly fine.

>>379158017
Softs is worse than standard DS2

>>379157895
Yeah those choke points surely exist in round open caverns.

>>379158209
Too bad no one plays vanilla das2 anymore, so if you want pvp you have to play SOTFS.
SOTFS objectively better in every concievable way, with plenty of retarded bugs fixed, but okay.

>>379154237
It had lances.

Can any of you more dedicated Souls fans than I explain why From rolled back all the engine improvements from DaS2 when they made DaS3? I'm talking about shit like:
>no full i-frames on all non-combat animations
>cancellable interaction animations
>better animation meshing
>better cloth physics
>better collision detection
>variable environmental interaction animations
And so on and so forth. They could easily have taken what the "B Team" improved and even taken credit for it in DaS3, knowing reviewers. But instead it seems like they rolled the engine back to something closer DaS1 state. What gives?

>>379158089
Grenades or fireballs don't have any tracking.

>>379158330
Because mizayaki is a hack. You can even backstab cancel in dark souls 3, albeit it's extremely hard.

>>379158330
Because 99% of animations sucked ass in 2?

The Jump button being separate from the fucking sprint button

Also a better jump in general

>>379158503
Animations themselves suck in all Souls games. I was talking about the underlying animation systems. The stuff that allows you to have cancellable animations, better transitioning between one animation and the next, etc.

>>379158417
>Because mizayaki is a hack

Pretty much.
The only actually good games that company did were done together with other studios.

>>379157373
>implying
There are so many ways to cheese and break the game, it's not hard. I do like how it takes forever to drink estus tho, you can punish it so hard.

>>379157412
It's a mess of an area, at least the first part. everything just feels jammed together and nothing really makes sense. I also fucking HATE the archers and they throw like 3 of them at you at a time multiple times so i'm a little biased. And the amount of stupid bullshit from the base game that overlaps in the DLC is annoying like tracking and the fact if you aggro one guy the entire pack comes after you no matter how much you isolate the one you want. The worst offender is the fact guys chase you FOREVER, they never stop, they will chase you to the end of the stage and it's terrible,

>>379158861
>everything jammed together
Everything is connected nicely, and there is always a sense of exploration, literally nothing wrong with the area
>archers
You can use the pillars to block their view.
>tracking
the enemies in the dlc barely track you though, it's very similar to dks1 tracking
>the guys that chase you forever
you mean the sanctum knights? you can get them to fall down ledges, or just pick them one by one.
>ganks
all of them can be prevented if i recall correctly, just play very carefully and pick off enemies
Anyways, if you aren't enjoying this dlc, you won't enjoy the boss you will have to fight.

DS2 might've had a higher threshold for how high you can fall from a ledge and still move forward uninterrupted once you hit the ground. That, or I was just impressed they added a new animation for it.

>>379159093
>the enemies in the dlc barely track you though, it's very similar to dks1 tracking
>all of them can be prevented if i recall correctly, just play very carefully and pick off enemies
Anon, you shouldn't lie. It's not polite.

>>379159230
Uhh, I'm pretty sure the enemies don't full 360 track you in sanctum king, the lancers can be sidestepped and the mace ones can just be outranged, the sanctum knights can also be sidestepped and I'm not sure about the ganks. I think the drakeblood knights track you pretty nasty, but that's about it.

>>379159093
Everything you said is factually wrong tho. The archers are set up out in the open so you have to retreat FAR back and they're usually guarded by 2-3 guys. enemies track you exactly like they do in base game so i don't know what you're talking about. You keep saying pick off enemies but like i said it doesn't work, if you pull one you pull the whole squad and it's annoying. I'm sure the boss is bullshit too but i still want to see it. One of my other complaints is that the weapons in this DLC seem useless, or rather i would never use them and that's have the reason i enjoy souls DLC.

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They fixed the fucking ember mess. This instantly made DS2 made for me

pic not related

>>379159535
the weapons are pretty shit, but you can get a nice lance/twinblade hybrid after you beat the final boss of the dlc and trade his soul

>>379154237
Backsteps have iframes
Covenant of Champions
Name-Engraved Ring
Everything about magic (except for the need to upgrade catalysts)
NG+
Everything about PVP (inb4 muh cracked orb farming, you can buy them in endless supply in NG+)
Fast climbing up ladders
Using items on ladders
Jump on L3 rather than O (why did BB not have this?)

>>379158330
I'm pretty sure they just binned the entire codebase of DaS2 when making DaS3. Which is why really specific bugs like dragon head stone duping and dodging through bleed return.

>>379154237
Small White Soapstone
Unhollowing after successfully helping people
Summoning that ACTUALLY works
A bottomless box that's not god awful to navigate
4 Ring slots
Repairable Ring of Protections

Yea/No?

I have Dark Souls 1 should I just stick with that?

>>379160976
I enjoy dark souls 2 a lot, it's not as good as dark souls but it's nice for what it is. It's better than 3 anyway, that game is soulless :^)

>>379160976
All souls games are great games and completely worth playing, regardless of people bitching about them.

Where's the best spot to PvP? i have 2 days left on my PS+ sub ahnd i want to make the most of it.

>>379161120
The first bridge of Iron Keep was the hot spot when I played it, at least

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>>379161049
>>379161071
Fuck I forgot pick

Dark Souls 2 for 12 bucks + random shit

>>379161120
brotherhood of blood arena is where you can meet decent players
if you want to kill trashies go to iron keep

>>379161190
Absolutely worth the price.
Even if it's not your favourite souls game, you should get more than enough bang for your buck.

>>379161049
>>379161071
>>379161279
cheers anons

>>379161190
Do it man, it has great replay value and it's a good game in general, just go in with low expectations. If you expect a masterpiece you will be disappointed.

>>379161179
>>379161228
What Soul level do i have to be for activity in iron keep? I'm at 100 right now, do i need to go higher or make a new character?

>>379161071
This, if you are itching for more after you are done, then try another game in the series, just don't expect it to be too similar.
If you think the game you play first could be great, but some flaw is keeping you from having enough fun, try seeing if another game in the series remedies that issue

>>379161379
>If you expect a masterpiece you will be disappointed.

or if you expect a good sequel in DaS2, be prepared for a disappointment.

>>379161576
meta is sl150, but it doesn't matter for iron keep, you are meant to look at sm
2 million - 6 million is the hotspot

>>379161576
>soul level
>ds2
If your soul memory is anywhere between 1.5 and 3 million you should be good for a while.

>>379161576
Soul level only matters for covenant arenas, the meta is 150 pretty much everywhere

>>379156332
If you don't buffer your input DS2 actually has a fairly large window in which you can time a rolling attack, you can put your rolling attack in any direction you want, at least unlocked with the FUGS which is how I used to play in arena. I could get the FUGS rolling 2h thrust attack to hit completely behind me.

>>379154732
>Weapon variety was good
This above all else was one of my favorite things, in DS2 EVERY SINGLE weapon class had something that I was able to get to rank 3 in the BoB arena with
I also was able to do it with bows and every spellcaster role except faith.

>>379158503
Literally only the estoc has ever had cool animations in Dark Souls. DS3 added flashy anime particle effects but they didn't make the actual weapon swings themselves look any better.

ds2 had the best fashion souls

what's with the fucking tseldora spiders hurting you with their death animation
every mob in this game is either trivially easy or has some sort of bullshit to them like the Viking 270 degrees spins on their axes

>>379161684
Like i said it's good for what it is but you're just drive by shitposting so whatever

>>379161857
I'm still not sure if it's a 60fps bug, or they're supposed to be spewing some acid at you when they die. Either way, it doesn't seem to happen if you kill them from behind.

>>379154237
l2 parry when 2 handing a weapon

>>379154237
Adjustable stats
and magic

DS2 is the best game to replay for fun to me, it stays consistent all the way through the game, unlike DS1 where I drop every playthrough after O&S or DS3 after Abyss Watchers. I dread the gutter and the shrine of amana, but they are over so quick that it's not as painful as the post O&S content or everything between Abyss watchers and the Dancer. I can't believe they managed to make the Anor Londo rehash in DS3 so shitty when it was so cool in DS1

Plus you get to do the DLC after you are done which is in my opinion the best content in all of souls (obviously bloodborne dlc is better).

DS2 is probably my favorite game to play with friends as well.

>>379162043
As much as I miss getting sick UGS parries, weapon arts are a much better fit on the l2 slot, even if some are better than others

>>379154237
If we're counting SotFS features, activating multiple bloodstains at once is amazing

>>379154237
literally the only thing it did better

>>379154237
it did

>world design
>level design
>movement
>lore decisions
>animations
>boss variety
>iconic moments
>complete vanilla experience

better than any other souls game :^)

>>379162226
Same, i like the weapon and build variety. They may not all be viable but most of it is fun.

>>379162674
I know we're both on the ruse cruise together but I do want to talk about iconic moments
Dark Souls 2 has a really critical lack of iconic moments both in boss presentation and world exploration
the only thing that stands out in my head is when you enter the last giant boss room and the giant statue head comes rolling down the corridor, also the first time the Pursuer drops down
the other souls games are chock full of them even if the game quality is debatable

>>379161576
PS3, i still take only 10-20 seconds to get a match in Iron Keep first bonfire, and i'm at 20 million SM.

>>379162860
>the other souls games are chock full of them
Are they? What iconic moments are there, except a dragon breathing fire down on a bridge?

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Quick lads what's or favorite build/weapon? I love the guts great sword, it sucks early game, fucking DESTROYS mid game and kind sucks late game but god damn is it fun.

>>379162986
things like Ornstein and Smough entrance, going into the Painted World, finding Kaathe on your own for the first time, everything about Sif especially post DLC

>>379162998
I had a character named Raimestadt that wielded Fume UGS on one hand and Sacred Chime Hammer on the other.
It was surprisingly good, since the UGS had great block and the hammer had hexes.

>>379154237
It's an easy way to figure out who is a massive faggot

>>379163469
Yup, they're the ones who come to a thread with the sole purpose of shitposting.

>>379163221
That doesn't sound either choke full, or especially iconic, if you ask me. O&S intro and the Painted World are just cutscenes, not in-game events. DS2 has boss intros too.

Also, I think DS2 doesn't have a shortage of those either. Like, when you get to Majula for the first time, you see that giant gaping hole in the center of the settlement, but you fall to your death if you just try to jump down. But you know there's something down there, and you'll have to descend there sooner or later. Kinda like the Great Hollow, except less hidden. The gargoyles showing up in the Bastille, hinting at the Belfry sublevel. The entire Aldia's Keep/Dragon Aerie route. You probably just didn't notice those, because you were biased against the game already before you even played it.
I played it on launch, and, sure, DS2 was pretty disappointing in some regards, since I had such high expectations for it, it still had its moments.

>>379154237
I just started DS2 after loving DS1 and DeS. I figured the "DS2 is bad" was a product of internet memery. I figured it would be the worst game, yeah, but not complete shit. It is complete shit so far. The ONLY thing it does better than DS1 is ladder sprinting. Literally everything else has been worse so far.

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>>379163580
>You probably just didn't notice those, because you were biased against the game already before you even played it.
I played it on launch too, faggot. But thanks for affirming my assumption that DKS2 fans are projecting retards.
>people only hate the game because they were biased! ;_;
eat shit I preordered the hour the first trailer came out and I've never been more disappointed in my life

I bought Dark Souls 2 at launch and quit playing after Freja. Should I give it another shot and buy SotFS? Do people play co-op on PC nowadays?

>>379154237
percentage weight indicator
dual wielding
interesting ng+
restat
exchange boss souls for weapons instead of cryptic smiting

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>>379163879
>But thanks for affirming my assumption that DKS2 fans are projecting retards.

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>>379154237

>ITT: things DS2 did objectively better than DS1. I'll start:
>
>>better rolling movement

>>379163919
Buy the base game and DLC.

SOTFS is a piece of shit that accentuates Das2's problems.

>>379154237
Not having to level certain types of weapons just to make a boss weapon
Not having separate shards and chunks for different elements
Being able to test out weapon movesets, even if you didn't have the stats to wield them properly
No OP ring that breaks if you take it off
Best weapon balance in the series
No Resistance stat

>Bonfire Ascetic
>Powerstance
>Covenants
>PvP in general
>NG+ bringing new stuff
>Better weapon upgrading
>Fashion Souls
>Overall its better balanced
>Small White Soapstone
>Better netcode

>>379164283
The DLC costs $10 each, while the upgrade to sotfs for DkS2 owners is available for $11.

>>379164283
what's wrong with SOFTS?

>>379164569
Babies hate Iron Keep in SOTFS because running through the area aggros a million knights with them getting swarmed to death

>>379164690
You're a fucking dumdum. That's what vanilla Iron Keep accomplished splendidly. If you rushed you'd get punished, but you could carefully pull the knights one by one.
In SotFS Iron Keep you get swarmed with half a dozen knights either way, while getting shot at from three directions. They turned one of the best designed levels in the game into trash tier one.

>>379164874
You can still do it in SOTFS Iron Keep
Just different.

I always bait the first 2-3 knights one by one into the last room.
The only time it really is hard to avoid is when you enter the first building but if you can't kill the first knight before the second one shows up its just you being bad.

>>379165014
Also: Iron Keep got designed that way.
You are supposed to fight multiple enemies at the same time and the layout of the area allows you to do that easily.

You can retreat to a better position - Fight them between rooms because doorways can't let all of them through at once.
There is also the ballista.
There are many ways to deal with that.

>>379164874

m8 if you're dealing enough damage you fight the knights one on one. and the player is long acquainted with enemy ambushes by that point.

all i'm reading from you are shitter complaints

>>379165014
You CAN'T. Once you cross the bridge three or four knights drop down from an unreachable room in a scripted event, while you get shot by two captains on each side, and possibly the third one, if he gets a clear LoS.

Only played SotfS and i have no idea why people complain about Iron Keep so much.

My biggest problem in that area was the turtle people. Not the knights. And there are other areas which are more tricky - Like the Shrine of Amana

>>379164690
Doesn't make it less garbage game design though. They even put more knights in NG+, there's 2 red phantom alonne captains in the boiler room that have more poise than jews that died in the holocaust.