>claims they learned their lesson with WoD >image related

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What do femdead dream about?

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>>379028308
>being attracted to decaying flesh and maggots

it was fun for about a week and at least they had more content at launch than WoD. thats about it though. Im sure theyll announce a new xpac this year sometime.

Should I resub for Tomb? Also I'm hearing Tomb isn't the last raid, what is going to be the raid afterwards?

>>379028808
7.3 has us going to Argus which will be its own zone and have a raid

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A P G R I N D
P
G
R
I
N
D
As someone who raided mythic, it's just god awful to be farming AP and that fucking titanforged item.
I rather kill myself than continue to grind

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>>379028308
Best fem coming through.

Legion isn't an MMORPG, it's a gambling simulator designed to maximise key performance metrics for shareholders.

There's a lot of small things that tell you the game is dying, you see the same names popping up during world quests/LFR/BGs, you go to Orgrimmar and sure it has plenty of people in it but on closer inspection it's because every PvP server in the region is merged into one cross-realm zone.

What went wrong is they went full cash-cow. Time-gated content INSIDE of time-gated content in of a subscription-based game is the nuclear fucking option in terms of jewing your customers. It's fucking insane. But boy am I enjoying playing a Priest (even though Disc is still the worst designed spec ever).

>>379029134
>implying
Orcs=Gobs(Maybe gnomes too; inconsistent boner)=Tauren=Troll=Dwarves=Undead>SpaceGoats>Humans>Worgen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nelfs>Pandas>Belfs

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>>379030074
It's worse than the current players even realize. The game has been bleeding subs for sometime. The last time they reported numbers was the last half of WoD and it was falling fast then.
They got a jump from the legion sales, then 30 days after that the subs tanked even harder.
They are at the point now where it's still dropping but the drop is slowing, so it's the players who never unsub that are sticking around (maybe due to time-gating or for whatever reason).
Pic related is the current census, which obviously isn't perfect (some servers don't have enough activity to get reports), but it counts all characters, not just players, so it's as close as we can get. EU + NA, btw.

>>379028236
They learned their lesson when it came to content, however, they made a new mistake with class design and progression.

>>379030930
The only problem with class design was that they designed legendaries or items to fucking bandaid fix mechanics that were fucked up with them still.

They're still being retarded only now instead of gambling for one boss to drop the token to finish the tier you want, you have the potential to get it from EVERYTHING with no hope of really seeing it.

>>379030757
>not even a mill and a half

J U S T

U

S

T

>>379028236

>So what went wrong here?

Nothing to do with WoD's failures, that's for sure. There's plenty of content, but as >>379030074 alluded to they've imported gambling game design whole sale. So there's always something to do, but you can never max out and there's no down time. I'm in a mid tier mythic guild (got 10/10 a few weeks back), but we've still got motherfuckers grinding the everloving shit out of AP and M+ for moderate upgrades. The rest of us are all at least working on concordance for alts, and we all make sure to get in our tens for the week.

There's really no reason to do this right now, because it doesn't actually impact our efficacy come tomb. But whereas in years past we would be loosely detached from the game decompressing from raiding, we're still grinding this shit out because of the vague promise of possible reward.

The worst part of it all is that these systems are global, so they're not just hurting the top end. You've got normal and heroic raiders bitching up a storm about the same things as if it even began to impact their ability to kill dead content. None of this shit actually matters, but it's designed to feel like it matters and so we're all still playing even though we're tired.

>>379030546

They're re-raping Disc come 7.2.5 because degenerate Priest players were making the spec playable by utilizing external mana (i.e. Innervate, BoW, etc.).

Panda girls are the best

>>379031306
Yeah, even assuming the census isn't 100% accurate, it's still extremely bad even just comparing it to what they started out with at the beginning of the xpac. Census data was indicating close to 4m at the end of WoD (but dropping extremely fast).
For anecdotal indicators, pvp forums like arenajunkies are dead as so much of the pvp community has given up on things.

I know I shouldn't even bother reading forums, but it's all in stark contract to people with 12k posts on the general bnet forum who are certain things are going great and the game is back up to 10m subs.
Legion certainly made a lot of cash, and perhaps nu-blizz is totally okay with shitting out an xpac every 2 years, getting tons of box sales, and coasting with time-gating until the next xpac. That combined with their shop isn't terrible money, but it's sad to see it come to that compared to how big they were.

>>379031409
Yeah I saw the changes. Instead of just tooling the mana-growth around or nixing it entirely in favor of a new Atonement system, we're getting fucked again. I'm not really much for raiding, but even I can see that the way they're handling Discipline is ridiculous.

>>379028236

They did learn some lessons, but then they made all sorts of new mistakes, in addition to really old ones.

>>379028236
RNG and adding a near unlimited grind in a theme park mmo where that grind will be meaningless in a year or two.

How is Farmville so popular but WoW dying? It's the same basis.

I always felt like blizzard is always try to find a new method to boost there casual audience up with each expac. Theres nothing wrong with that, they seem got to keep the game alive but I hate it when they make it painfully obvious that they're catering towards the casual fanbase.

diablo loot killed all the fun in raiding

>>379028236
WoW is nothing but shitty quests where you kill mobs and get a slightly better item in the process while you repeat it.

The only somewhat enjoyable parts of the game are when you actually play with people and fight bosses.

But even fighting bosses gets repetitive after you notice its just like the mobs except the bosses have different special moves which a brain dead child can avoid just to get that one piece of loot which is randomly given and not given to the person who actually deserves it

>>379030757
>20% of all active players now are Blood elves

Looks like I'm not logging in ever again

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>>379029037
As someone who has done less than one dungeon for every week Legion has been out, I've been able to get cutting edge on every boss. It's only a matter of composition and playing well. And look, you're claiming to need titanforged too. I only have normal trinkets because they won't drop in the first place. AP is not meant to be a grind.

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>>379028236
Only a few things went wrong with the expansion, mostly involving Legendaries and Titanforging. I know some people don't like the AP system but I don't mind it.
Everything else has been great. Raids have been good, and M+ is a ton of fun. Might be one of my favorite expansions.

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>haven't subbed since October
I've been subbing on and off since I started playing toward the end of 2005, but this is the longest I've gone so far. I barely get that urge to resub anymore, and if I do, it's almost immediately squashed when I think about how generally awful Legion is.

I think I'm finally free.

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>>379032527

Have you ever read the forums? Blizzard has been making major changes to the game since Vanilla based ENTIRELY off complaints voiced by an extremely autistic and loud minority on their forums. Meanwhile, the normal people who just play the game like a normal person are left to experience these retarded changes patch by patch until the game became a shell of what it once was. Blizzard needs to just purge their entire community staff and close the forums entirely.

What is most damning is that blizz clearly put a lot of effort into legion, they abandoned wod for it and this is the best they could come up with, the game is a graveyard outside of dalaran and your guildies.

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once I obtained my Thunderfury skin for Outlaw rogue, the game is now completed.

I can finally rest and never return.

No amount of AP farming compares to how shit the game has become over time.

>>379033276

This is why the game feels like bends over backwards to appeal to the largest possible group of morons who are still willing to give them money because they don't know any better. Turns out that changes implemented based on the autistic screechings of some edge lord cock sultans makes a game absolute shit.

>>379033276
Not that anon and blizz has never done that.

>>379033294
Different developers who have no idea what made the original game good.

WoW will never get back to what it was. Your directors will say "Well people just got sick of the same old thing, they don't want to play MMO's anymore", when in reality, the game just provides you with no incentive to keep playing. They replaced rewards that require hard work and dedication with instant gratification. They removed any sense of prestige or accomplishment, and just made the game as casual of an experience as can be. Maybe it's fun for like a week when you play it, but you run out of content so quickly, there's no reason to keep playing.

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>>379028308
>>379029134

gas every waifushit

>>379028236
Nothing, you're just older and the glamour of WoW has run it's course with you. There's nothing they could do to make a 20 year old game fresh and exciting again.

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>>379033572
>that UI

>>379033083
im with you brother. my roomate asked me the other week if i wanted to resub cuz he was bored of the games he was playing. it was the first time i was just able to say nah without even thinking. i think im free too

>>379028236
Apart from ruining alt-itis and minimal feeling of threat from the main antagonists, not much.

I managed to max out my original artifact traits and get 893 ilevel in a week of doing world quests, mythic dungeons, LFR, and world bosses.

I can't really commit to a raiding guild anymore because my job requires me to be on call but I can still do pugs and mythic+ easily. The game offers a lot to people who don't have time ro raid.

What will the next expansion be about?

>>379030757
>Still using WoW census as a basis for sub numbers

lol m8

>>379033276
They haven't made any major changes. They have nerfed quite a few things like requirements for flying but autists are still left crying over having to group up for dungeons and raids.

>>379033737

god help anyone who still plays WoW retail

>>379033737
Void Lords, or an easter egg

>>379033737
Surely not original content.

Just more time loop shit or osmething.

Or just a "Re release of Wrath of the Lich King! Only without anything that made the first half of WotLK fun!"

>>379032964
Do NOT reply to me.

>>379031694
>general bnet forum who are certain things are going great and the game is back up to 10m subs
dunno what you're reading but GD is half quitting threads and extremely negative

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>>379033878
>private servers

>>379033737
There won't be one. Legion is the final expansion. Everything ends on Argus.

>>379033767

There was a chart on mmo-champion a couple of weeks ago that showed the percentage of players that achieved each PvP prestige level. It picked up 1.9 million characters active in the past month.

>>379033737

well Legion was TBC so the next expansion is WoTLK 2.0

You think different? You're blind and stupid. Blizzard always take the easiest and shittiest route.

You think you do but you don't

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>>379033968
Lying isn't nice. AP is not one of the blatant problems the game still has.

They have already dug themselves too deep.

No amount of damage control will save WoW at this point

They should just close it off with the expansion after Legion and work on remastering the classic expansions + doing something else with the universe.

>>379034182
The Death Knight campaign will wrap up everything with the Lich King 2.0

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>>379034182
This

They've run out of creativity at this point. I'll give Pandaria a bit of a pass since it's at least unique but making an entire expansion that is basically

>OUTLANDS remember this???
>ILLIDAN!!!! hes so cool remember him?

Is the lazy most pandering garbage

Next expansion is almost guaranteed to revolve around the Lich King because hes one of the only other popular WoW characters they can run into the ground still

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>>379034021

After replaying a vanilla private server for literally only 3 days (got to level 30), I came to the ultimate conclusion that Modern WoW is beyond cucked, and the game can never be salvaged or saved at this point.

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>>379033737

azshara expansion

>random south seas islands with made up zones
>new race: ogres for everyone
>more class pruning
>more rng than ever before
>random naga, hozen, pirate, goblin, and murloc dungeons
>raid #1: naga temple filled with naga
>raid #2: spooky old god hidden lair of doooooom
>raid #3: spooooky n'zoth raid that takes place in a new zone whoa
>raid #4: teleported to the maelstrom and fight azshara who absorbed the remaining power of nzoth, raid uses cataclysm neptulon raid assets lol

excited?

>>379034346
Isn't Illidan basically Jesus now?

>>379034394

Ion is a former WoW player vanilla/tbc raider

and he has turned the game into what it is now, complete garbage

I fucking hate him, he is a dog.

>>379034410
He's the chosen one, but he's not Jesus

>>379034182
>>379034346
I seriously hope they announce a Lich King expansion at Blizzcon, and everyone boos.

That would be FUCKING amazing.

>>379034490

I thought he would be a great Game Director since he was a hardcore player who played during the zenith of WoW.

Somehow he turned the game into a way bigger shitheap design-wise than Chilton ever did

Unsubbed back when 7.2 came out.

Legion looked promising, and was fun for awhile, but got bored with Nighthold and WoW in general.

I was thinking about resubbing for Tomb of Sargeras but now I don't think I will.

>>379034410
Your character is Jesus because you are the savior of everything now.

>>379034573

>implying wotlk babies / mop babies would BOO at such a reveal

They would cheer louder, while the few silent oldfags in the crowd and on forums would be angry.

We are the minority now, and have been replaced by drooling retard WoW players.

>>379034512
>chosen one

Just kill this game already.

>>379034186

Two things. First, the AP grind was very, very real in previous patches of the game. He said he previously raided mythic, which means he likely participated in the worst of AP grinds. Going into Nighthold in particular was pretty rough. Running carries for days.

Secondly, the current iteration of AP is exactly everything that's wrong with the game. The push to concordance was a grind even though we all knew it was of marginal value. The game is now built on these endless gambling systems with rewards that continue to be diminished by passive aggressive developers. It creates an environment where everyone feels like there is improvement available, so they feel compelled to play the game even if they know that improvement is minimal or entirely random.

Also, the most casual people I've ever known are pugging Heroic or grinding out higher levels of concordance through dungeons and world quests -- so your personal experiences may not be as universal as you believe.

>>379034512
If he was the chosen one why did the Naaru egg us on to kill him in TBC?

>>379033767
Like I said, it's about as close as we're going to get as blizz stopped releasing numbers. It's safe to say that if things were going amazing they'd reverse that decision.
Even not taking the counts at face value, it's still a great tool to indicate trends. Which say subs have been falling swiftly.

>>379034145
>implying they care
the audience blizzard wants will tolerate low effort facebook tier content shoehorned into the game while buying every shitty overdesigned mount on the store for $50

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>modern WoW sucks
>overwatch sucks
>hearthstone sucks
>HoTS (lmao)
>diablo 3 and starcraft forever cucked

Blizzard is dead and should be to any long time fan.

>>379033083
I was subbed every month since release, and dropped the game before 7.2 was released. I'd log on for thirty seconds, then log off due to disgust.

All the problems were mentioned in the beta, but of course, Blizzard ignores them and claims nothing is wrong.

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>>379034013
That could be, it's been awhile and I haven't checked up on it. The last time I was paying attention, it was a bit after Legion dropped and there was a misquote in a polish gaming site that said they were back up to 10m. It got corrected but posters in the GD were linking to it for months afterwards to respond to any naysayers.

>>379028236
>what went wrong here

legendaries. I could deal with the Artifact power shit, and the Mythic+ keystones are fun. But the real problem is that because artifacts and their power allow everyone to be stupidly powerful they have to rely on legendaries to close the gap balance wise.

turning the legendary grind from a unique experience for certain classes into an expansion long grind for everyone into the current diablo style loot system where they can drop from literally anywhere at any time is the absolute worst thing they could have ever done.

The gear treadmill only works if you get better rewards for grinding out harder content. If your group used to suck at raiding, you would just farm the easier difficulty until you were geared to the teeth and try it again. Now everyone blames it on shitty legendaries (or the lack of them) and just doesn't try because it's complete RNG. You have exactly the same chance soloing normal/heroic dungeons by yourself as you would raiding a Mythic Boss for one to drop, so most people don't bother to actually try and push through harder content until they finally get the legendaries they need to make their class/spec "better".

I quit 2 months into the expansion because of this shit, and honestly if they announce that they're keeping the system in the next expac i'm done for good. Sure i've done my share of bitching and moaning about different "QoL" changes that have shifted parts of the game, but up until that point the only thing really keeping me going was raiding and the gear treadmill. With legendaries they completely destroyed that.

>>379034926
I used to love Blizzard

I have no idea how anyone could still like them

>>379035020
>Game where there is never true balance and everything is determined by raid experience
>People begging endlessly so they are not left in the cold for an entire expansion
I don't understand how Blizzard always fails to see that they are the ones that can prevent that mess. The same way "WoW killers" helped to improve the game with basic ideas that people have wanted for years.

>>379034926
When Overwatch came out, I played the shit out of it. I don't play it at all anymore, but it was a fun game when I first played it.

I play HotS and Starcraft 2 every now and then. The games are fun, they're not extremely good games or anything, but they're not horrible either. I completely agree with Diablo and WoW, though. Unplayable at all.

Ten years ago, Blizzard was my favorite game company. I thought they could do no wrong. They no longer make good games, they make fun games. There's a difference. Good games you can pick up and play time and time again. Fun games (like the ones Blizzard make now) wear off very quickly and really don't have a lasting effect.

>>379035121
Fucking Legendaries.
>Assassination Rogue doing Mythic Nighthold Prog
>There's 3 other Rogues
>One has the Boots and gets the shoulders during prog
>The other have bracers and cloak
>Then they buff Kingsbane
>I have the bracers and belt
>Go from beating both of them by a good 10% to being 20% behind the guy with the boots and shoulders

And that's when I quit. A person doing 20% more damage purely because they got lucky on their retarded legendary drops is complete bullshit. To add salt to the wound, the guy with the boots and shoulders already had the BiS Outlaw leggos, the Shoulders were his 7th leggo while I still only had 3.

>>379035020
>>379035378
>Blizzard TBC and later
>any sense at all
Find your problem.

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>>379028236
Honestly the breaking point for me was when they royally fucked the class balance in 7.2

I mean aside from that and the AP grind it's a pretty solid expansion. It's still better than WoD but it will never reach the greats like Wrath and Pandland.

>>379034678
Why did you categorize MoP with WotLK users? The overlap is almost non-existent and MoP is actually good.

>>379035691
>great
>pandaland
Does not compute. How does kung fu panda the expansion rank as great at anything except for being great at fitting in the trash can?

>>379035761
>MoP is actually good.

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>>379035761

>MoP is actually good.

>>379035691
The only thing that saved Mists of Pandaria was Timeless Isle and the overall buffs they gave every class. Soloing world bosses at the end of the expansion was incredible.

>>379035834
>>379035848
Great arguments. Im just gonna assume your closet furfags.

>>379035121
honestly i hated mythic+, rushing to the end of a dungeon as fast as possible for a chest is a perversion of the dungeon concept

also why the constant huge aoe pulls, it's just a big stupid
clusterfuck with lots of big stupid numbers

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>>379035907

>MoP was actually good

>>379035907
Listen kid. You're praising the xpac that added xrealm trash. Fucking off yourself.

>>379035796
I liked it up until SoO surprisingly. Though mechanically the raid is sound, the story is just complete shit and the forced legendary shit.

>>379035834
>>379035848
Judged in hindsight MoP was pretty decent. It certainly had all the flaws that the last half of lich king brought, but it didn't have the complete garbage that WoD and Legion included.
It was also the last xpac where pvp was remotely playable/semi-balanced, if you ignore the cheatfest that high ranks of rated bgs were.
By "balanced" of course I mean as balanced as reasonably possible, but that's of course subjective.

>>379035796
>Kung Fu Panda the expansion

You gotta love these posters who got fucked over so badly by Cata they didnt even play MoP and are still using pre-launch memes when literally everyone who played during MoP thinks its the best expansion since Wrath.

>>379036036
>listen kid

Stopped reading there. Bet you started playing post TBC.

>>379036105
Started 2months after launch of the game, champ.

>>379036092
>>379036105

modern wow defense cucks everyone

>>379034372
This is the depressing part to me.
As flawed as vanilla WoW was, it was still such a superior game. They've gone so far off that it's impossible to make it good at this point.

This is kind of why I'm disappointed that they scrapped Titan, it could have been a restart by people who actually know what the fuck they're doing when it comes to mmos.
Even when you compare vanilla WoW to other mmos it feels superior in comparison. Your character isn't floaty like in GW2, your character doesn't get stuck in animations like in TERA. WoW just had the perfect movement and combat to me. You always felt in control of your character.

>>379034710

While i agree with titanforging and legendaries, the ap grind in this patch is reasonable. I hit the concordance two weeks ago only doing wq and very occasionally m+. Since it's a proc with a low margin of upgrade it's not even worth farming outside of normal activities.

>>379036092
>Judged in hindsight MoP was pretty decent
The expansion started off with epics tied behind rep grinding. One or two factions per day was tolerable, but raiding guilds expected people to be maxed out within two weeks. Add to that factions which only appeared on certain days, and the gating was a nightmare.

>>379036105
>best xpac since wotlk
That's not saying a lot you shitlord. And panda land was kung fu panda the expansion, anyone who denies it does so because they started playing the game then. It was shit through and through.

>>379028236
What went wrong? I'll tell you what went wrong! There's not enough of our motherfucking favorite obnoxious memeworthy pimp Gallywix!!

Titanforging
A promising expansion only for it to be very underwhelming
World of Diablocraft: RNG extravaganza

>>379035020

Reminder that Tseric did literally nothing wrong

>>379036503
yes they both have pandas, great argument

>>379035945
i'll admit that it _is_ a perversion of the concept of dungeons.

But at the same time i was a blood DK main since the class was released, and given how the spec ended up giant clusterfuck pulls of trash were a specialty for us (and had been for two expansions by that point). Being able to walk into a dungeon and face pull half of it with zero worry about survival always got me a bit excited, and finally having some kind of way for that to be beneficial to the group was the main appeal for me.

>>379035429
that's the biggest negative for me. Legendaries used to reward skill and perserverance. Even in MoP and WoD if you were too lazy to complete the grind you didn't get shit, but at the same time not having them wasn't the end of the world.

But Legion threw all of that out the window and made it a complete RNG clusterfuck. Even the people determined to grind them out for days on end were getting fucked over when some idiot on his AH alt killed a random world boss and got BiS legendary for his spec.

By the time i quit, most in my guild had at least 3-4 legendaries a piece. I was one of the only ones who only manged to get ONE. And this was a good 5-6 months after launch, despite me doing at least one form of content that had a chance to drop one every day. And it doesn't even consider the fact that half of the available ones are either absolute garbage (and not even worth the ilvl boost) or barely usable in niche situations at best.

Everything else about the expansion was shaping up to be great. The raiding (at the time) was good although i still say WoD had some of the best raids of all time, the Mythic+ dungeons were exciting (namely for the reason i mentioned in my above reply), and the World Quests were a better replacement for dailies as they were more spread out and took you everywhere in the expansion instead of just one zone. But legendaries were enough of a shitshow to get me to quit the game, possibly for good.

>>379028236
turning the game into Diablo 3
layers upon layers of RNG and endless grind

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>>379028236
>Claims they learned their lesson with WoD
>Immediately make Illidan green jesus 2.0 nothing personnelll kid edition.
>Use convoluted means to bring Gul'dan back and immediately kill him off, instead of using him in creative ways.

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>>379035130

I played the same Dwarf hunter for 10 years, I might still be playing if they left classes as they were at the end of WoD and just added some more new abilities.

I fucking hated the class balance and play style roller coaster, but losing 2/3 of my abilities was it for me. I knew since the Legion pre-patch, seeing what they did to not just my class but everybody's class, I knew the end of WoW was near. I stuck it out for a few patches, taking long breaks after about a week of playing after each patch. I made it to the tomb of Sargeras patch, playing a different character, druid, since my hunter became the designated shitting street, and I just called it quits.

I cashed out my WoW gold for bnet credits because I figured the climbing token prices would keep climbing. I got Legacy of the Void and the Diablo 3 series. I haven't finished the Void campaign, and Diablo 3 isn't even installed.

I dunno, lads. Videogames in general have been abysmal lately.

>>379035429
They played more than you did and they deserve it more. You're probably a casual fag who logs on once A week or so. That would explain why you only have 3 legends Instead of 7

>>379036897
It was Mythic NH prog, the entire guild had 54 traits. by that point.

>>379036741
oh, I also forgot:
giving every spec a fucking lobotomy

>>379035848
End thyself post haste

>>379036339
>As flawed as vanilla WoW was, it was still such a superior game
lol, when will nostalgiafags finally look themselves in the mirror and come back to reality?

>>379036705
>Even in MoP and WoD if you were too lazy to complete the grind you didn't get shit, but at the same time not having them wasn't the end of the world
Yea good luck even getting into a normal/flex pug without your mandatory grind legendary. I swear people either lie about the experiences they had or just straight up didn't play the game

WoW has less subs than it did during Vanilla's era. That was when Blizz last openly stated the subs which was almost 2 years ago---meaning the game is even deader now. Yes the game has much less people playing than when it began in 2004, just let that sink in for a moment

>>379036967
>>379036865
This is the biggest flaw for me. I've played my priest since tbc, it accounts for 90% of my total playtime and the feeling of losing spells left and right is something I despise. At this point I feel half the abilities I had since vanilla / tbc are just gone, or universal abilities are given to only one of my other specs in the name of "class fantasy".

>>379037401

The biggest guild on Emerald Dream, it spanned 3 guilds, just disbanded.

>>379037465

Yup, they tried to reinvent the wheel and made it a square.

Having to relearn your class/spec every expansion got tiresome too.

>>379037401
and it still has double the numbers any other mmo has ever or will ever be able to maintain past initial hype
people just realized mmo's are shit

>>379037186
hurr its old so it must be worse!!

>>379037465
Try playing a resto druid. The most spells raped from a class out of any.

>>379037186
>farm felwood plaguebloom 10 hours a day
>sub 30min MC clears
>sub 50min BWL clears
>1.5 hour AQ40 clears
been playing vanilla wow for almost 2 years now in the private server scene, most fun ive ever had in an mmo since burning crusade or preToC wrath of lich

>>379037497

was it WSB?

>>379036779
>Gul'dan

Actually he overstayed his welcome by a large margin. I would have preferred Kil'jaeden as the main henchman of Sargeras from the start of the expansion with the alternate Gul'dan dying as a boss in WoD.

>>379037670
Are you playing on Elysium? I've been thinking of starting up on it. Is the server itself decent? I've tried asking for info on the general but it's nothing but cancerous shitposting. Also what classes are in short supply?

>>379037186
>YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DON'T

fuck off. Everyone always says the same tired, trite "NOSTALGIA GOGGLES" response when we say we miss/like Vanilla. And when servers like Nostalrius do well, it proves we're right. Then they're silenced. I would pay 15/month for Vanilla WoW, and honestly even BC or WOTLK era would be acceptable too. But vanilla is when i had the most fun, and was truly a WORLD of Warcraft.

4/10 made me reply

>>379037758
They get pretty good traffic on the PvP server. Last I got on to check there was about 5k people playing.

>>379037769
it doesnt prove shit, i played on nost and yeah its fun but if you seriously sit there and claim its better than current WoW you're literally a brain dead bandwagon faggot who probably not only never played on a classic wow private server you obviously never played it when it was retail

>>379037186
Do you really think these people are playing just to be contrarian to retail WoW? Are you this fucking deluded?

They're having fun doing things the old way because it's more satisfying and actually feels like you're part of a world. Any pretense of that has been long gone from WoW since WoD

>>379028236
Should I resub for Tomb? I have an ilvl 905 Unholy DK but I haven't played since February.

>>379037758
The private servers get infected with modern shit. Raid runs, a lot of elitist shit, etc. No point in joining a one now unless you got a guild to join and help you.

>>379028236

I mean, they *did* learn their lesson with WoD. It's just that they're now making a new and unique set of mistakes relative to WoD. That's WoW's development in a nutshell, really- they fuck things up, they realize their mistakes, then in an attempt to fix those mistakes they fuck it up in an entirely different and usually opposite way.

Look forward to the next expansion where there will be absolutely no grinds and you'll have little to no reason to run any content after completing it for the first time.

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>>379028236

Nothing. Its perfect, but the customers are mostly greedy fedora autists who are unhappy with everything and are just never satisfied.

>>379037645
hurr its old so it must be better!!

>>379037670
this post sums up my point pretty well.

you could farm herbs pointlessly for hours if you wanted in any version of wow. you can quickly clear raids you vastly out gear in any version of wow. but the only version that is praised for these things is vanilla. the content hasn't changed much, in most cases (raiding and dungeons) it has only gotten better. what has changed is people's perspective on the game

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>>379037871
2/10 easy bait but here's your (you) anyway

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>pso retooled mmo gameplay in a way that keeps it fresh but was also fun
>pso2 kept the same basic gameplay but completely fucked up everywhere else

>>379037893
A bunch of them do

I have way less time to play this game than casuals do and I hate how all the "I've got a family and fulltime job let me have access to everything reeeeee" people that ruined this game. Actually I only have 2 days a week I can dedicate to games, can't even play at all on days I work and I still wouldn't have the game the way it is currently

>>379038058
>Stealing my screenshot
Thought you could get away with it as well

>if you think X instead of Y you are a Zfag

So I haven't even played WoD at all, but I was watching a PVP vid yesterday of some arena matches in Legion, and everyone is back to having 4 million health again. So what the fuck was the point of the WoD number crunch? Isn't that back to the annoying state of too many big numbers on the screen?

>>379037656
Resto is actually the only alt I play these days. I think resto healing is still fine and fun, the prunes hurt the shapeshift forms a lot though. Atleast resto is still feeling very similar to before. That can't be said for disc. Atonement is garbage

>>379038058
>whatever i dont agree with is bait

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>>379037940
>Should I resub for Tomb?

it's not worth it, it's just the same grind that we've been doing since last august. game isn't worth playing anymore Jack.

>>379037714
I can understand that point of view but my problem is they keep and bring back characters and then don't do jack shit with them. Or just repeat the same hero's journey dog shit over and over.

Keeping Garrosh after Mists so you can see Thrall kill him in a random quest was some of the dumbest shit ever. Why not use him as a foil to learn more about alternate universe Hellscream or Develop the character more and keep him around. Maybe try make him actually interesting. Him meeting his dad instead of an idealized version could have made for a good change of heart story. At least it would have been more interesting than keeping him for no reason other than to spout exposition in the trailer. There is a lot of characters in the universe with wasted potential and that are just plain underutilized who could actually make the story interesting but instead they make every decision short term instead of long. I'm surprised Wraithion wasn't random dungeon boss number 7 who dies in one hit after all that build up in the other expansions.

>>379037758
Kronos, which is probably the closest thing to a blizzlike vanilla experience you will ever get.
Elysium is great as well, got a char to 60 there and was in on the server first MC in the Vigor group, but you realize early vanilla lacked a lot of actual endgame.
if you're serious about playing in the private server scene, stick with either anathema or kronos, more content that you don't have to wait literally years for, and many well established guilds lead by experienced leadership.
the "fresh" feeling ppl chase after with new server launches is overrated, any many such ppl never stick to any server and are a cancer in the community.
they hop from new server to new server, bloating the population initially and making the launch go badly, then leaving just a few weeks later, then making the server population feel small.
don't be cancer, don't server hop.

>>379038228
yeah play the superior game ff14 its literally revolutionary

>>379038208
>similar to before.
Resto druids have no innervate.... They got raped.

Been subbed on and off since 2005. It's just more of the same tired old shit with new names slapped onto it. The new animations felt great at first, but now all look generic. The zones feel small, and while the first run through was good, the only thing that's stuck with me is the music, sort of.
I'm probably just burnt out, but damn I got tired of checking my order hall missions, and doing daily world quests. I didn't even have the motivation to do anything else by the time I unsubbed.

>>379038206
>he fuck was the point of the WoD number crunch?
Everythread

It was a problem with the engine at the time that it couldn't handle big numbers, it's been solved since then and the new hp/damage cap is so high that they'll never reach it anyway

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>>379038206
The point was Blizzard was that WoW runs on a 32bit Engine that can't/couldn't deal with numbers above 2.164 billion. Blizzard have since solved that problem so don't care anymore.

Pic related. You need two hundred trillion AP for the final level in your artifact weapon.

>>379038361
>that pic
HAHAHAHA who do you think you're fooling

I would like to have expansion that has similar tone like MoP, discovering new land, adventuring and helping the locals, rather than BIG BAD ENTITY/ARMY IS COMING TO GET YOU, WE HAVE TO UNITE AGAINST THIS MONSTER-thing, but that seems to be more popular with the normies.

>>379038295
yeah but that got raped back in cata along with tree form and lifebloom

>>379038492
?? thats literally exactly what happened in MOP thanks for showing you didnt play it.

>>379038295
That's one fucking spell. And even worse they still have it, so not sure what you're talking about man. I can list like 20 spells on the spot my class lost.

>>379038504
Don't even get me started on the gimped tree form shit,

>>379038049
why don't any of the nostalgiafags step up to the plate?
and just for reference, I can understand if you just simply enjoy it more, but don't try to tell me it's a better game

>>379038236

From my understanding they had a lot of writers that come and go. The results are piecemeal stories without long terms developments with the obvious exception of the whole theme of the various expansions.

>>379038596
RESTO druids have no innervate. And it was the most important spell a retro druid had.

>>379030757
So basically there are about 15 thousand max level alts. And way less than that many players.

>>379038492

the next expansion is going to be an ancient evil awakens with the old gods and then after that you are going to get the ultimate evil awakens with the void lords

>>379038049
you sir, clearly, don't know what vanilla felwood was like, at all. if it was just grinding herbs, that would be retarded. you are vying for a resource that sits on a 45min respawn timer, a resource that is needed by every single class and spec in the game for their raid consumable, with everyone and their grandma attempting to farm it as well. simply put, there is no better pvp than wpvp, and no better wpvp than felwood, where every victory in a small skirmish means gold.

>>379032915
But that only affects horde, and only faggots play horde.

>>379038263
I don't really care about raiding anymore, I'm more interested in some fun sandbox type stuff and 5mans. I'm very much over playing WoW "Hardcore".
One thing I really want to do for example is run Maraudon and ST on level appropriate characters that aren't absurdly overpowered for example. The last time I actually did a full run of either of those places was in like 2007.

The best way to play MMOs nowadays is to play them for the first 2-3 month of each expac release and then drop them hard until the next one. If you grind for months you're just going to burn out.

Sad, but pretty true I feel.

>>379038653
What the fuck are you talking about? We still have it you cuck.

>>379038236
I hate that they wrote Wrathion out of the game. He should have been in place of Khadgar in Legion, he was the one who had massive Legion-boner anyway. He was one of the best characters in MoP and they just threw him to garbage bin.

>>379038805
No resto druids do not. It got replaced with this trash.
>Infuse a friendly healer with energy, allowing them to cast spells without spending mana for 10 sec.

>>379038676
Now let's say that you're doing this on a server that is 95% horde or alliance (like how retail server are now) is it really this epic battle for resources as you're portraying it?
The games' content hasn't gotten worse, only the circumstances and perceptions around it.

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>>379038596
priests were shit on and ignored for like 8 years, you should be used to it

druid master race problems actually matter

>>379039013
Not him but no vanilla server was ever that bad. Servers actually mattered.

>>379037645
It was.

Oh God it was.

>>379038567
I know but it wasn't a theme of expansion. They didn't market MoP as ANCIENT EVIL AWAKENS/IRON HORDE IS COMING/LEGION IS COMING/LICH KING IS COMING but more like an exploration and learning this new land's rich and dark secrets. Sure, there's Sha shit and Garrosh in the end, but all that more in the backside when Pandaria takes the front line in theme.

>>379039053
Nerzhul was 70/30 alliance/horde
Tich was like 80/20 horde/alliance

>>379039013
Back in Vanilla Blizzard would faction lock servers that got too imbalanced. That situation could literally never happen.

>>379038745
literally the same reason I started as well, but one thing leads to another, and you find yourself raiding, pvp ranking, etc.
Elysium is going to be your best bet then, low level dungeon runs are not as common on more mature servers since most pre60 characters are alts getting leveled and dungeons do not award much in the way of xp, nor gear.

>>379039053
I know and I agree that back then the community, and internet overall, were better suited to letting people just enjoy a game for what it is whereas nowadays everything is nit picked and optimized down to the very last detail.

So let's have a conversation on if that can be brought back into modern mmo's/gaming as a whole because that's what has been lost, not game design or content.

>>379038906
Same icon same name and still let's you heal forever. Mostly same functionality. Just more restrictions. Atleast they gave us that version instead of gutting it completely like what happened to a lot of skills. The gameplay hardly changed from wod so r druids really shouldn't cry about pruning or redesigning imo

Blizzard shouldn't have fucking removed 10 man raiding. The preferred form of raiding for the vast majority of the playerbase just got removed so the top 0.01% could have a tightly tuned race. The game could've limped on for a long time but now all the small communities are dead and the big 20 man raids cycle through an entire roster over the course of one raid tier.

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>>379038408

No, it's actually, literally, exactly 200 trillion AP to go from concordance rank 49 to concordance rank 50.

Of course, the whole point of that trait is that you never actually max it unless you're in the top .001% of crazies who want to sink that much time into the game, and (more importantly) that if you are that crazy you're not rewarded all that much for it relative to someone who grinds that trait out at a more casual pace. The core problem with artifacts in 7.0-7.1.5 was that throwing a shitload of time at grinding AP was rewarding enough that you felt obligated to max your artifact out ASAP; now you eventually hit the point where you're not "done" yet but it's also not remotely worth going out of your way to grind AP.

>>379039203
Tich was bad I remember. These are the only servers of note though and they didn't get that bad till later. I'm going to say it wasn't 80%.

>>379037568
the only thing is that this time around there's not much to learn

>>379028236
It's better than WoD. And MoP. And the latter ends of Cata so far.

Legion feels so fucking half assed. I didnt get where all the hate came from for wod. There was always stuff to do vs legion where theres broken shore and world quests. There is no pvp gear and they even recycled ashran ffs.
I quit 5 years ago and been resubbed for two months now and Im bored as fuck with it.

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>>379039271
This. My guild has been dead for about a month and will remain dead until Tomb because our realm is dead and our guild is small and we simply cannot get 20 people in a raid at once, we can barely get 15.

>>379039262
It's borderline useless.

>>379039013
our server, Kronos, does have a faction imbalance, 60-70% alliance to 30-40% horde. wpvp is not about whining and complaining about why you lost, its about adapting, getting better, doing whatever it takes to win. sure when alliance camps the entrance to AQ40 with over 80 players and our lone 40 man needs to zone in with ticking world buffs, we are going to probably get wiped by them, but its a noble death my friend, and the wpvp is truly epic, in a way i would not expect a retail shitter to understand.

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Wod had everything to be an amazing expansion
>Scrap 80% of the content
>Don't release anything
>Kill everyone in a single patch

God, it hurts to this day.
I still prefer it over Legion though.


All i want is go back to 5.4 and play it eternally

>>379039208
The only thing I ever remember blizzard doing to help faction balance was offering free transfers off of high pop servers/factions to lower pop servers/factions.
If you could show any evidence of what you claimed I'd be surprised

>>379038049
Must be? No. Was? Yes.

>>379039148
Wrong

>>379039290
GOD that ability is so painfully generic. What the fuck happened to the game. Why have these shitty incremental percentage chances? Where's the new skills for customisation?

>>379039476
I've played tons of private servers and they're all shitty bug ridden garbage.
But hey if you don't care that you're playing a pretend makeshift version of the game then more power to you.

>>379039476
Why would you ever play on Kronos? It's such an undertuned shitserver where you need one guy bandaging the MT every few mins. Let's not forget the funserver out of combat regeneration either. Nost/ely is far from perfect but atleast the content isn't that big of a joke. We all left Kronos for ely, it's not too late to join man.

>>379039603

WoD was probably the biggest victim of their dumbfuck "we want to be able to have an expansion cycle of less than two years" goal that they set for themselves. It's pretty clear that the second major raid tier was going to be about resolving the Iron Horde storyline while the third was going to be the lead-in to Legion, but then they got delusions of grandeur that they could get Legion out 3-6 months before they actually did and cut one, so the storyline wound up being "yeah defeat the Iron Horde because they're all motherfuckers OH WAIT GUL'DAN'S CALLING IN THE LEGION NOW LET'S BE FRIENDS WITH THEM TO TAKE OUT THE BIGGER FOE AND LIBERATE DRAENOR TOGETHER GUYS NEVERMIND THE HORRIBLE SHIT THIS TIMELINE'S HELLSCREAM DID HE'S OUR BRO NOW"

Reason Legion fails is because its just as much content as WoD, only time gated to keep it relevant

>>379028236
Legions flaw is that the content is fun to play through precisely once.

When you do it again, you realise that you're caught behind AP grinding before you can actually do anything interesting.

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>>379039673
iirc transfers didn't exist until TBC

>>379039948
>goal that they set for themselves
pic related

>>379039827

I'd be shocked if one of the major balance concerns (possibly the biggest and effectively sole balance concern) in Tomb of Sargeras wasn't that Concordance of the Legionfall was significantly better for some classes/specs than others. No fucking way will a one-size-fits-all approach like that proc work equally well for everyone.

>>379039827
It's not an ability, it's a way to naturally nerf content over time as players will gain more and more points in it over time while still progressing in the same raid.
Think the icc weekly buff but without blizzard shoehorning it in every week for everybody and instead everyone earns it individually for themselves

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>>379039715
>Wrong

>>379029029
>an entire planet
>one zone

If I wasn't such an advocate for staying on Azeroth (other side, south seas, underwater, Northrend revamp, etc.) I'd vote for a whole expansion on Argus also build more Draenor now that it's s whole planet again,

Will there be a Warcraft 4+expansion that introduces new characters, places, races and classes that will lead into a WoW2 on a whole new engine?

>>379040815
Why the fuck would anything as cool as that ever happen?

>>379039882
>undertuned
great meme friend, i very much doubt you ever really got into raiding let alone 60. kronos is more blizzlike than elysium.
Elysium only feels more overtuned due to progressive gear stats, whereas kronos is strictly 1.12.1 patch.
The whole progressive gear stat progression is honestly retarded seeing as talents remain 1.12.1, and you can't tune server side mechanics to reflect old vanilla talents patch by patch.
Not to mention, no interest in 7 more months of MC, before another year of BWL. just, no.

>>379040815
Probably not, because it would be too embarrassing for multi-millionaire company to say "hey guys, we worked really hard for these 12 years to build lore and shit, but now we are throwing it to garbage to start over again". They are trying to salvage the current game for eternity, but we all know it's a hopeless dream.

>>379036705
>play resto druid
>get boots first
>then belt
>not another legendary for an entire month
>get removed from mythic runs because I don't do as much healing as those who got the ring and shoulders
And there goes my sub. I quick back in cata and came back out of boredom. They'll never get another dollar out of me.

>>379040815
They don't need to ever do that. They can endlessly make WoW better with any ideas that would be wasted on RTS games, that clearly the public doesn't want (more like can't easily git gud at so they stay away from)

>>379028236
WoW has been 1 step forward 2-3 steps back ever since it fucking launched

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>DPS spec on new class is the best thing added to the game since Wrath
>Fuck it up in 7.1.5
I'll never not be angry. Fuck Nemesis. Bring back momentum

Retarded amount of gating for endgame content, fun plot/quest but tedious scaling enemies, more recycled characters.

Blizz needs to actually quit listening to their fans. Their fans are retarded. If it were up to them every expansion would be a redemption arc for some nameless orc asshole we murdered in vanilla.

>>379040815
We will never get WC4.

RTS games don't sell. The online community for that genre today is just a bunch of tryhards that merely max APM and ruin the games for everyone else. Aside from that, the modern custom map scene is gutted in SC2 and it would be the same in any future rts title. That's what truly made WC3 great, and it's dead.

Blizzard is happy just sitting back and making money off HS cards, and skins for overwatch.and hots, because those generate more revenue than WoW.

>>379034053
It's pretty strongly hinted at in game that the next expansion will involve the Old Gods.

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>>379040987
But imagine a new game, factions that are less cut and dry "Horde" and "Alliance" and more fluid, possibly three or more major ones, more dynamic classes and animations, more racial options for classes, more races/subraces in general, more works to explore and more stuff to do in that world.

>>379041879
how is your 1 button rotation now?

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>tfw guild is slowly decaying
>tfw no one even logs on anymore except for raids
>tfw nighthold heroic on farm takes 1 hour
>tfw blizzard are a bunch of a niggers and thought 20 people only for mythics was a good idea
>tfw have to push myself just to log on for that 1 hour raid a week

Sad.

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>>379029134
wrong

>>379040815
>Will there be a Warcraft 4+expansion that introduces new characters, places, races and classes
Probably.

>that will lead into a WoW2 on a whole new engine?
Probably not.

>>379042093
Taurens are ugly and the entire race should burn for eternity in the twisting nether.

>>379041942
Enemies scale because of the shared tag system. They want shit players to be carried and that means you cannot kill things too fast.

The fanbase is increasingly casual. The devs are new and the B team from that selection. They are just turning WoW into Diablo 3.5 because these people play WoW on tablets and can't have any complex interactions or too many buttons. Fans have made the game more unbalanced than its ever been, and pvp is in its worst state since 2003 beta.

>>379033490
Have you played during Cata?

>>379042058
Momentum wasn't particularly hard. But it was a lot more involved than the literal whack a mole it got replaced with.

>>379033480
Just like real life and lefty politics.

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>delaying content three months just so they can release alongside Stormblood
I'm tired of another game dictating when we get content now

Content is decent but class design is being horrible

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>>379042327

>>379034394
>more class pruning
That's not even possible

>>379036105
Except Cata without 4.3 was better than MoP. Sure,I guess if you like dailies than MoP are the way to go.

>>379028236
https://youtu.be/pkAe6pg0UJo

>>379042492

Do classes really need THREE specs? Demon Hunters have proven two works just fine.

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All right boys, give me a quick rundown. Haven't played since the middle of Armchair Commanders of Garrisons. Can I ignore that artifact and legendaries and still wreck someone in pvp? And what's the current pvp balance like?

>>379042262
Yea I mean the new one, guild friend rerolled dh after this for other character

>>379042219
?

>>379042584
Artifact grinding is mandatory if you want to be remotely relevant in PvP. PvP balance is the worst it's been since early vanilla.

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>grew up never playing mmos
>friends eventually get me into playing WoW during panda land because they all agree the games great
>picked rogue because of all the funny storys I heard of being a dick in world pvp
>we all roll new characters and sit in duty finder
>every single encounter is a mind numming bore of just drumming 2 keys, didn't even read my abilities and I still did damage
>while flying through all the dungeons and old raids, all I hear is them talk about how fun it used to be before power creep and all the interesting mechanics we were ignoring because the boss dies in less then 5 seconds.
>get to level 70 before I couldn't take it anymore
>have fun killing rare low level people questing because they inevitably fly in on there max alt and one shot me
>unsub

>friends trick me into falling into Draino hype because they tell me I get a free boost to current level and "Relevant" content isn't a face roll
>dick around in garrison, face roll duty finder, unsub

>friends trick me into falling for Legion hype because they say the world wont be dead and some other bullshit
>rogues turned into fucking ninjas and pirates, dick around in garrison 2 on my fucking phone, faceroll everything, unsub

>play vanilla private server
>combats not a fucking faceroll, actually have to be careful about pulls, actually have to read my fucking abilitys
>no duty finder, actually have to talk to people to get into groups, the worlds not fucking dead, world pvp exists, can spec into different builds and hand tailor it
>can have any resemblance of fun actually playing the game

>"nostalgia goggles"

>>379042584
World PvP is absolutely fucked. Talking you can one shot with auto attacks fucked if you're geared. Healers have no hope.

Arena and RGB are their usual fucked but no more 5v5.

>>379032964
AP grind is much easier for casuals to deal with because of all the shoe on head retarded catch up mechanics and time gates on everything.

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You guys enjoying farming your artifact power?

Ghostcrawler made a big deal about gutting the old talent system because 'it wasn't fun putting 1 point into a talent to get 1% damage increase' and then 2 expansions later they go back on that and give us artifact weapons which are basically the same thing as the old talent trees but take a lot longer to fill out and have mandatory skills that you have to take that you don't want.
On top of that to increase your weapons ilvl you have to get doubly lucky with relic drops; get one that is a higher ilvl than what you already have and also gives a boost to a talent that actually matters.

They said that they didn't want us sitting in our garrisons this expansion but now we're just sitting in our class hall looking through the group finder for a Mythic+ that doesn't suck.

They're also time-gating everything that they possibly can in the game to stretch out that content just a little bit more to try and keep people playing because they don't want to fall behind compared to their friends/guildies.

>>379042492
We're just going to every melee have 1 ability, it slows, interrupts and deals damage. Their second ability is a gap closer with no CD.

Ranged also get 1 ability, it slows, interrupts and deals damage. Their 2nd ability is an escape, with no CD.

All heals and tanking abilities are AoE and both have a stacking buff that reduces damage taken.

Remove all resource management from the game.

There. I just finished what blizzard has already done. Now every spec for every class needs at most 2 buttons.

>>379042686
The nostalgia goggles meme always makes me laugh when I went to legion for 1 month then straight back to vanilla and currenty TBC private servers and actually getting some enjoyment.

>>379042645
They nerfed everything in the expansion because people who put 30 min a week couldn't complete all the content. If I recall correctly they even started removing mechanics from 5mans like from Baron Ashbury

>>379042773
I didn't enjoy back when Neverwinter pulled the same bullshit. I see no reason why anyone would enjoy it now.

>>379042880
Did you read the post I replied to originally? What are you talking about?

>>379042830
I noticed how stupid the time gating was within 2 days of being max level and quit after 2 weeks. I remember doing some WQs and getting fuck all AP then 1 week later with some research papers I could get double for the same effort and It only got worse the more research you had.

This is not a game I want to be putting any effort into when 1-2 months later the casuals will catch up with some stupid ass patch that gives people free research levels or some other bullshit.

>>379042654
>>379042702

So we are back to WotLK's "pve to pvp" garbage?

>>379043035
Significantly worse.

>>379043035
Yes and no. All that matters in instanced PvP is ilvl. Gear doesn't matter only ilvl. PvP gear is rng,

>>379042565
Do demon hunters really need TWO specs?

Have they not released the Kil'jaeden raid yet?

>>379043151

Do we really need TWO factions?

The correct answer is no.

>>379039290
>you never actually max it unless you're in the top .001% of crazies who want to sink that much time into the game

not a huge difference, but it is mathematically impossible to max concordance, especially with the max ak nerf

>>379043192

Normal Kil'jaeden comes out June 20.
LFR Kil'jaeden comes out Aug 8

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>>379034394
>he thinks he's getting more than 2 raids ever again

I really enjoyed making gold via AH in first two months of legion, now i'm sitting with almost infinite amount of cash that i can use to buy everything at a blizz store, but there is nothing to buy, oh the irony.

>>379043213
Apparently we do since the writers for WoW are terrible at their jobs and come up with retarded reasons why both factions hate one another.
Or even why the horde still put up with the Forsaken's bullshit.

>>379042589
Oh, yeah I quit entirely and don't want to come back until it's fixed

Shame because I want to play momentum DH on my Steam controller

>>379043365
alchemy?

>>379043365
Me too
It's stupidly easy to make gold now so I have a lot of it now with nothing to spend it on since I don't really care about mounts, pets, or most of the other stuff that sells for a lot.

I just bought enough tokens to put $75 on my account to buy Destiny 2 when it comes out since I figure I may as well.

>>379043451
Alchemy, pants into obliterum, enchanting, i got nearly 20 mil.

>>379042686
The biggest joy to play on vanilla and even tbc / wrath servers is simple. Every class is completely unique and you know the tool set and limitations that they have and can play around them. This applies to both PvE and PvP.

Log into legion, and every class has and escape, a gap closer, a self heal, an interrupt, a stun, and some kind of CC.

Log into vanilla and tbc and this just isn't true. CC's on every class are all situational. Not every class has an interrupt or even a stun. Not every class can close gaps every 3 seconds, and you can actually exhaust a ranged characters ability to escape. Pure dps can barely self heal.

All the classes are interchangeable, and group composition means nothing in modern WoW. They shouldn't even have classes anymore, just pick heal, tank or dps.

>>379043423
>playing with a controller
You're part of the problem.

>>379043035
lul at least if you could still get honor gear if you were casual about pvp in WotLK. Now PvP gear is RNG through boxes when you win BG's if I remember correctly or a reward from PvP World Quests which are cancer.

>>379043557
>You're part of the problem.
I came back to play Havoc after not playing since Wrath because DH looked like fun. The problem was there several expansion packs prior to me returning

>>379042686
I was really happy when Cata first released. Dungeons were actually difficult; you needed to pull groups carefully and actually use some CC. I was amazing and I enjoyed doing heroics again.
Then people on the forums cried about not being able to complete the dungeons because they were too difficult. So Blizzard nerfed the hell out of them so it became WotLK 2.0 where you would just gather up all the mobs, aoe them down, and then move on to the next group.

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I don't know what the term is for it, but the game is essentially in a mindless grind mode where no matter what you're doing, there's always some way to "improve" your character's strength even more. It feels endless and more chore-like than anything that has ever been in the game before.

It simply isn't fun to deal with random legendary drops (and their absolutely absurd performance boosts), AP grinding, multiple different specs, and all the other repertoire of bullshit you gotta worry about on every single one of your characters. There's too much anti-fun, you know? You can't just hop on any of your characters and get up to speed in a reasonable amount of time. There's a lot of secondary and tertiary bullshit things you gotta do to actually be up to snuff.

You can call me crazy, but I think endgame during Wrath and MoP were probably the best times in WoW. Classes were at their most fun to play and you didn't have to deal with so many annoying gameplay factors regarding any of your characters like garrisons, a class hall, or a dumb fucking artifact weapon. Wrath's endgame was relatively simple, but in a good way that didn't make simply playing the game a huge fucking pain in the ass. MoP started the "legendary for everyone" trend which I think is probably its biggest flaw, but outside of that, everything was solid.

Basically, the game is fucking awful. Stop playing MMOs, go play a good genre, like bullet hells.

>>379033480
I hate to say it, but I don't look at some scrub in m+ and normal raid gear and think they're any good.
Ultimately, you still have to work to get the actually good shi- fucking titanforging goddamn it Blizzard you dumb fucking niggers.

>>379043905
The term you're looking for is "Treadmill".

>>379043905
But if they don't give you an endless content grind, you will unsub because there's 'nothing to do'

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You have to blog to explain wwr:

I suffered through WoD and was one of the people who thought MoP was one of their best.

AP shit? Whatever, I don't need to grind out 2 paltry ranks on a shitty skill boost.

Weekly unlocks for tedious suramar questing? Fine. Pain in the ass but I'll do it.

Shitty raid progression? Whatever I'll just treat them like weekly quests.

Horrible daily rehashing? At least there's SOME chance for item upgrades, and some of the rewards are helpful.

Mythic+ is kind of fun and challenging.

Until raiding stopped giving upgrades...
And my legendaries were only good for aoe...
And the AP grind started creeping up...
And the dailies stopped giving good rewards...

And then high-level autism Mythic+ key levels became necessary to progress...

And after spending 2 hours assembling what should have been a decent group, the nutters blew the first 3 pulls of Court of Stars by being a pixel too close to a sentry.

My last hardcore experience was BC. My last guild raiding experience was Cata. Banking my only hope on a 1 ilvl increase by doing THAT shit?

Every WEEK?

That did it.

That finally set me free.

Anyone else miss reforging stats on your gear? At least then when you got a piece with a crappy stat on it you could change some of it to a better stat.
Now when you get that piece of gear that's a higher ilvl but has shitty stats on it you just DE/vendor it.

>>379034490

Who is he? Full name? Did he play on Silvermoon?

>>379029037
AP grind hasn't been a problem ever since 7.2. Concordance is a soft cap.

Titanforging and rng legendaries, on the other hand...

>>379035121
The big deal with Legos is being competitive with other players of your class, which matters in any guild in the top 500 of their respective region.

The big meme where tons of people were saying Legos wouldn't be a big deal early on was a load of horse shit for some classes.

>>379043916
>titanforging
>legendary drops
>LFR gear can upgrade to be just as good as the best mythic drops

They need to go back to one gs / raid difficulty, re-implement attunements, and dispose of all catch up mechanics so people have to naturally progress through the content again. Of course this will never happen because people who enjoy actual progression all already quit because the game dropped all those elements years ago

We really need to go back to the TBC dungeon formula.
Normal mode is dungeon content easy enough for casuals to enjoy.
Heroic is dungeon content hard enough for raiders to enjoy.
Mythic is retarded, get rid of it

>>379044041
And yet every expansion before it managed to not have an endless content grind and kept players just by filling a fucking rep bar.

And then Jay Wilson's fuccbois came along, and decided they had a (((better))) solution.

>>379044139
>Mythic+ is kind of fun and challenging.

Depends on the affixes. Having Fortified just makes trash feel like a slog, even having the tank and dps all above 900ilvl doesn't help. It's one of the easiest affixes but it just makes keystone runs tedious.

>>379044516
>Black rook hold
>sanguine

just kill me pls

I don't understand how people can enjoy playing PvE competitively anymore. It's got to be almost enough work to be considered a job at this point. Like blizzard should be paying you for playing that much
You're not even playing classes and specs you like. You have to play what spec is the best in the current patch or even reroll to a new class. It's ridiculous.

>>379044259
ToC/ICC heroic mode was a mistake, all the homogenization that followed was to support heroic mode raiding at the cost of fun

>>379044289
Bliz did this already with the early cata heroic dungeons, but the community couldn't accept the cognitive dissonance that they were actually bad at the game and didn't deserve to clear the dungeon until they learned how to play the game.

>>379044675
Nah, it's just the vocal minority who were shit cried and cried until it was changed and then the silent majority quit the game because it was no longer the same game and challenge they grew to love.

>>379044675
cata heroics were fine, the problem was the dungeon finder, they've since learned not to put anything challenging in dungeon/raid finder

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>So what went wrong here?
No fucking alts allowed.

Or rather alts if you're crazy. No thanks. They got 12+ mos. of sub time extra out of me leveling alts in the past. Now they get 2-3 tops.

Guess their numbers say I'm the minority though, so who the fuck knows?

Least I finally got around to playing my backlog.

>>379044516
Whoever tied challenge modes to loot progression needs to get shot. They still honestly believe Mythic+ is optional with other content despite it having a clear ilvl advantage over other modes for players of all skill and gear levels.

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>>379044578
>get Maw of Souls keystone
>invite high ilvl tank
>fuck yeah, easy 3 chest!
>turns out the tank is a retard to wont move the mobs out of sanguine
>ends up pulling the first boss with some trash mobs still alive
>nothing is dying because they're all standing in sanguine
>wipe
>tank tells us we suck and drops group

I was almost certain that guy must have bought that character or something. Luckily a guildie logged in a couple minutes later and we cleared it easily.

>>379045025
I had the same experience just now. +9 vault with sanguine and grievous. Tank obviously didn't know he's supposed to use active mitigation to stop the first boss from gaining a dmg absorb shield and he also moved the boss around so fucking much that the entire area was covered in aoe shit. Then he called us useless and left. Why is it always tanks?

>>379045025
A big issue in modern WoW is the average player is garbage, will not listen, and is extremly thin skinned. Your basic millenail

>>379044619
Heroic mode raiding and dungeon finder was to pve, as resilience and arena was to pvp. It killed the fun for everyone. Destroyed the balance of the core components of the game in an irreversible way.

Heroic dungeons made sense originally, because dungeons in TBC were designed to be done while leveling, and heroic brought them up to a level that was challenging at level cap, as a stepping stone to start raiding. Heroic worked in that context. It does not work for raid progression.

Also, fuck anyone who thinks 'well im subbed so I should be able to have everything' mentality. You're paying for content patches and server maintenance, not a free pass for progression.

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>>379045191
The same shit happened during end-of-life expansion numbers and ZA/ZG prenerf Cata. People make tanks to be fill demand, not because they're good at it.

Their logic is: "Either you carry me or fuck off. I'M the one suffering a spec I don't want to play for faster queues."

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>>379028236

>Hey let's add in legendary items to legion with amazing boosts in power
Sounds good
>Now let's add in some shit ones
Wait what?
>Now let's also make them completely random
But won't people complain when they don't get the best legendary item and get a shit one
>Ohh yeah let's also increase the time it takes to get each one
W-why are you doing this?

>>379044259
I hate legendaries and titanforging as a mythic raider.
The legendaries problem isn't as big now, since I have all of the relevant ones, but early on it was hard to push some really high parses without them, on top of trinkets and artifact relic fuckery.

Titanforging for sure has me the most upset. I will be eternally butthurt if it isn't gone next expac. It is retarded to see ebin 915 raid finder titanforging trash.

>>379045191
>>379045290
I really didn't understand it because this tank had a really high ilvl so they must have done plenty of mythic+ runs before so I assumed they knew how the affixes worked.

>>379045547
You can roll high ilvl stuff in LFR and world bosses. Not hard to get endgame gear these days.

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>>379045025
>BRH M+13
>Everyone is 905+
>Think it will be a nice easy run
>Tank stacks all the mobs and never moves out of sanguine
>dps ends up standing in sanguine
>everyone constantly has the grievous debuff because they wont stop standing in the fucking sanguine
>Get shit on as the healer because I'm constantly running out of mana trying to keep these stupid fucks alive and I'm playing a druid so topping off to 90%+ with 5 stacks of grievous on everyone is impossible and the tank just chain pulls so I can't even snipe drinks since combat never breaks

>>379034394
Ion looks like he's seen some shit. Like he can peer into the future and see how huge his gaping asshole is going to be once we get done tearing his shitty expansion to ribbons when we find out Blizzard broke their promises again for the last time.

>>379045547
Most everything in the game can either be bought or faced roll.

>>379045634
Wednesday can't come soon enough. I really fucking hate sanguine. Especially on BRH.

>>379045634
I know the feeling. And don't forget

>nobody focuses Councillors to they heal the trash
>nobody else nukes the ghosts during the first boss
>tank keeps pulling tons of trash onto the stairs and there's nowhere to move from sanguine

>>379045626
It's purely subjectivity though. It's easier than launch, sure, but you are still a victim of RNGesus. I was never one of the lucky. It was always the retards who end up getting showered in 915s.

I also read they have loot logic in the game so getting legendaries sets you back on getting another one. Got the neck? Well fuck you for a while!

>>379037670

If I started now is it still possible to get into guilds or are the server pops too low/everybody's just naxx-geared now?

I've always wanted to do 40 man raids but I could never get the BiS pre-MC boots .

>>379045897
lower pop just raises competent guild standards. you have to win the loot lottery and suck lots of dick to avoid showing previous raid logs by now.

>open weekly Mythic chest
>get another Cathedral of Eternal Night keystone
>delete it

Is anyone else getting nothing but Cathedral keystones since it was released?

>>379046007

Oh fuck that then.

>>379045897
From what I understand the private servers are just as bad as the retail WoW when it comes to guild recruitment.

I feel so sorry for people who still play this. someone should make a charity that tries to help them get out.

>>379045897
I'd suggest waiting until crestfall if you want to play vanilla. At this point an established server's guilds are going to want stupid requirements for you to start raiding and you'll just end up disappointed. Especially since Elysium even allowed character transfers from nost, where people like me were already in full t2.

If you want to play tbc wait for gummy.

>>379046110
>We're a new guild recruiting healers and dps for progression
>Must have a higher ilvl than the gear from the dungeon

>>379046254

I mean honestly I'll probably never play any of them unless they just sell level 60s because I also don't want to do 1-60 as a warrior again.

I've already done my time.

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>>379046268
>Realize guild recruitment mimics real life job recruitment
>Struggle not to pull the trigger each passing day

WoW was never good as separating the job from the game.

>>379046268
you forgot
>all good gear you need is reserved
>girl joins and you lose your raid spot since you're under performing because they never let you get any gear that wasn't scraps leftover from the officers and their friends

>>379046372
Play on warmane. it's like 5x exp level and you can purchase anything with cash.

>>379046268
I can get were they're coming from. I've failed to start a guild 3 times over the years with WoW. All failed with in the first 3 raids because people are trash and my buddies and I weren't going for a scrub shitter guild.

But again at the same time you can get an idea if someone is a shitter probably 80% of time by talking to them pre raid.

>>379046471
>Play on warmane. it's like 5x exp level and you can purchase anything with cash.

Eh. That's cool but my nostalgia is strictly for Vanilla.

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>items on reservation

>>379046385
Real life job recruitment is simple, apply for as many jobs in your field as you possibly can even if you're not entirely qualified for them and do a lot of interview prep. That way when one calls you back, you at least nail the part where they actually meet you. Also, if you're not willing to relocate for work, you're probably not going to get work at entry level.

This really only applies for careers. If you can't get a 30k a year wage slave job then you're probably just a shitty person.

>>379038408

>you never actually max it unless you're in the top .001% of crazies who want to sink that much time into the game

And are still playing Legion over 100 years from now? Because that's how long it takes. It's literally unacheivable.

>>379042773

Got concordance, and got it before ToS. So, that's the AP farm over for me.

See you in 7.3, Halatosis.

>>379046584
They have wrath and tbc servers.

If you can't be bothered to level anyways, I don't really think the first 3 versions of WoW are for you. Legion is probably more your style.

>>379042773
>farming for ap
Jokes on you, I'm just waiting for my ak to max out and do it all in a week.

>>379033543
The one lesson Blizzard refuses to learn despite the many years fans have been screaming it in their face: casualization kills the game. The casual audience might occasionally whine about the game being hard, but the truth is they don't give a fuck whether the game is easy or not. They play to ride the coattails of popularity - they are the lowly peasants. They would stick around no matter how difficult the game became, but actual fans of the game that appreciate quality and difficulty will leave if such things are no longer present. I guess now we're at the point where it's "have left" instead of "will leave". This is the truth that Blizzard refuses to acknowledge. They have tried to "toe the line" with shit like Mythics, but this effectively superficial when the lowly peasant can earn the same "prestige" with astronomically lesser effort.

They have needed to do some serious feature/gameplay trimming since late Wrath, but it's probably too late. They can't win back the passionate players, and if they trimmed too much casual stuff they risk losing the worms that still persist in the rotten soil.

>>379042686
>grew up never playing mmos
>duty finder

you liar, you're a shitposting ff11/14 player

>>379047084

Anybody who ever did 1-60 and then wanted to do it again is fucking insane. Especially if they did it with the shitty class I did it with.

I did all the bad but I didn't get the payoff at the end because I couldn't get some boots, so I'd just like to be able to do the raids, yeah.

List of things I want from the next expansion:

10-man mythics
A tank/caster hybrid thats not a fucking bear and chicken
AP can return, but only if it's done in the same way as 7.2, and no fucking golden traits, and have the AP tied to the char, not the weapon.
More varied shit next expac, they turned the legion into such a fucking group of jobbers. Makes them feel more like a saturday morning cartoon villian.

>>379047169
TF2 learned that the hard way also.

>>379035761
Not gonna lie, MoP had some of the best raids ever and most classes were fun as fuck to play.

Why the FUCK did Blizz decide to make ranged fucking immovable turrets? Besides the retarded drooling idiot of a spec that is Beast mastery, of course.There were fewer ranged players to begin with, and to boot most of the fights have melee hugging the boss' ass as their main mechanic.

>>379047290
did 1-60 with 2 characters on nost and enjoyed every second of it. MT for a guild until the server died, had BiS everything. First with a hunter for farming gold and making potions. Second with a warrior, who was twinked out at every stage. Both done in a little over 5 days played.

I enjoyed every second of it. The world was full of other players and there were interactions around every corner. I'd do it again if a good server was released.

>>379047290
1-60 is pretty optimized now. Doesn't take too long. You can get it done in under 10 days played time. Also if you have a healer and tank set up you can chain dungeons fairly easy but no summing stones.

>>379047169
They want those casual dollars, but forget that the core players are what make the game attractive to begin with and by chasing the casual dollars they lose both the core and a casuals.

>>379045897
the good guilds won't care about ur current gear, gear just comes with raiding. not to say it doesn't help create a good first impression, but unlike retail, getting into good guilds requires a certain level of charisma and a show of competence, and constancy. having pre-bis just shows that you are dedicated and are willing to do what takes to down bosses.
and honestly, if you can't solo farm your bis, as /fit/ would put, ur not gonna make it bro.

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>>379047353
because you can't balance ranged between 'ranged with cast times', 'melee without cast times', and 'elf faglords who flip around while doing 100% dps'. either ranged have to all be able to move, or they all can't. mobility is too important in encounter design to just hand it out at fucking random.

i mean, that's all a colossal implication that shillard-cucktivision gives a square fuck in a round hole about balance, but lol
>>379034662
>>379035691
>>379036865
obviously not

>>379042838
I'm done with class designs. Main is a Warlock; half of our abilities were ripped from our spellbook and given back to us... as talents. We need to choose between. And then Demon Hunters got a scant few other of our abilities.

That's not even the worst bit. I don't like the bog-standard 'build resource -> dump for damage' design. It's dull, uninspired garbage.

Unless Tomb is the best raid in the last 9 years, I'm done. Legendaries, RNG, Diablo-style mechanics and loot, the AP grind... there's nothing worthwhile left.

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>>379033083
Me too, the only reason I ever resub is to hang out with my guild. Trying to get them to play other games is impossible, they're too far gone, I love them all though.

That said I can't bring myself to enjoy Legion, it's the worst expansion ever. At the end of Cataclysm I enjoyed levelling a good 6 or 7 alts. The thought of levelling a single alt in Legion makes me want to shoot myself.

I doubt I'll touch the game again unless the next expansion seriously improves things. I know I won't play Legion again.
I miss my guild though.

remember when wow addiction was a very real thing and everyone, normies and old fucks included, knew of the game as some hyper potent heroin drug? I started vanilla when I was 12 and had to convince my parents to let me play it because they knew how addictive the game was and they knew fuck all about games.

Funny how you never hear these stories anymore because the game is so shit it can no longer addict even the most naive people

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>three months until BWL
>Gummies comes out in three eons and will get shut down in six months
>legion blows
>XIV is a snorefest
>Blackde- haha haha

Please kill me.

>>379038263
Kronos has detuned raiding. It's basically on LFR mode 100% of the time.

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I bet Jay "Fuck That Loser" Wilson still has no idea what made Vanilla and D2 so great and is just mindlessly scratching his head while watching the subs drop, at the same time desperately thinking whose dick at Activision he has to suck next in order to not get demoted to a janitor position.

>>379028236
They are hacks.

>>379049909
Dont ever post again ok