I don't get it. Did I miss something somewhere? When did

>>378939272
the game has like 4 endings or so based on your decisions so you probably are just too retarded

>>378939272
Its a bad game anon made by Hollywood wannabees. Of course every mainstream gamer will lick it up

>esc >quit game

>>378940494
whoa so deep

You were supposed to quit the game when you realized you were locked into the white phosphorus thing and never play it again. It's absolutely retarded though since the only way they force you into that is by having infinitely respawning snipers and soldiers on the ground.

>>378939272
That's the one issue I have with the game. Don't blame me, the player, for not turning around and going home when that's not possible.
A game about a guy who refuses to turn back, so the isn't given the choice, is perfectly fine. And it's fine for other characters to tell him he's wrong. That's just the character's choices, not mine. But don't try to guilt-trip me over something the character did.

Just ignore those messages.

>>378940494
Really anon? That's a piss poor excuse for a game

>>378940581
You are playing as the character, though.
You decide what the character does.
A video game is not a movie, and video games shouldn't strive to be more movielike.
>A game about a guy refuses to turn back, so the isn't given the choice
Is just another interactive movie.
And God forbid a video game uses what's available to the medium to tell a story.
You had every chance to simply stop playing the game.

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>>378939272
The game is about making bad decisions that looks alright at the time you make them, since you dont have enough information to know better. Like when your parents decided to keep the baby.

>>378940572
Who said you SHOULD feel any guilt?
All your "choices" in said game mean jackshit since protagonist is already crazed by his objective and will pursue it no matter what.

>>378939272
You were supposed to stop playing the game and get a refund.
That is the best ending.

>>378940951
Can't return something I commandeered.

>>378940938
Was for >>378940581

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>>378940951
>>378940895
>>378940605
>>378940581
>>378940572
>>378940527
>>378940494
>>378939272
We will never have a good Spec Ops thread. The point of the game wasnt that you were supposed to stop playing. The point was that you were supposed to start questioning what your character is doing. Its not your story, its Walkers story. You are just there along the ride.

What other games have you guys bought and been completely disappointed with after listening to hype on /v/? I have this and Sleeping Dogs

>>378940895
That argument only goes so far. In the end you're playing a character who's doing things in a certain way so a story will play out. You might be able to affect how the character does this, but you never get full control.
How many games allow you to give up and go home and get a satisfying ending (as in, not just shutting down the game)? It happens, but the norm is just letting the player be along for the ride.

You never get full control. And that's fine, that's how games work. Like I said, the problem is that this game goes "How many people have you killed?" and stuff like that, and the developer going "oh, you always had the option to shut off the game". No, fuck that. Don't blame the player if he isn't getting any options.
Sure, call me a monster if I kill people in Deus Ex or similar games, but not if I'm playing a linear shooter.

>>378939272
the character isn't an allegory for the player. the player is an allegory for the kinds of people the story is criticizing.

>>378941185
This, thousabd times this. Fuck the writers of the game, and fuck the devs for making abysmal controls, at least they could have made it fun

>>378941124
>The point was that you were supposed to start questioning what your character is doing.
Except I can't care about that when it tries to guilt trip me while making the only option to kill very obvious clusters of civilians by having infinitely spawning enemies so I can't do shit. I'd be fine with that explanation if they didn't go "OH HOW COULD YOU YOU ARE SO EVIL AND BAD WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP". It's horseshit.

Why do you give a shit if the game is 'blaming you' for anything? Jesus Christ

>>378940938
>All your "choices" in said game mean jackshit since protagonist is already crazed by his objective and will pursue it no matter what.

Exactly. And like I said, you should just ignore the comments on why you're doing what you're doing and enjoy a nice story about the protagonist who's going nuts trying to justify what he's done.

As for who's saying I should feel bad, the messages during the loading screens seem to be directly at least partially towards the player, not the character. And the developers seem to want to ask the player why they're playing these violent games - and then including a level where you're forced to kill civilians. Don't force me to kill someone and then ask why I did it.

The meta stuff went a bit too far imo. I try to ignore those parts and just look at it as a self-contained story.

>>378941513
You kill the civilians because you want to progress in the game, but absolutely no one is forcing you to.

>>378940572
Even through the FLIR it was pretty easy to tell that group was civilians and not soldiers, but the game doesn't let you stop mortaring until they're all dead. It sucked.

>>378941420
>"OH HOW COULD YOU YOU ARE SO EVIL AND BAD WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP"
Are you referencing the loading screen texts? Those arent there to guilt trip you. Those are there to make you think about the actions.

>while making the only option to kill very obvious clusters of civilians
You arent doing that, you dumb fuck, Walker is doing that. You cant chose, it was his decision, you just have to perform the task. This is not an RPG, this is a story. You have to kill those civs, because thats what Walker is doing. Its his story, not yours. If you dont like the story, stop playing/watching/reading. But you cant change it. But thats not the point of the game. The point is to realize that what the objective is telling you to do, and what you have to do, might not be the right thing to do. Its like orders.

>>378940919
>The game is about making bad decisions that looks alright at the time you make them, since you dont have enough information to know better.

Too bad people don't take this lesson further. No wonder ppl are obsessed w this gam

>>378941124
That's not exceptionally meaningful though, consumers have always questioned the motivations of the characters and the meaning of the events in the games they played. The thing is video games are there to be enjoyed and trying to make a horrors of war story will never truly work in a videogame because it'll never transcend the inherent triviality of the medium. It comes across as pretentious and pedantic when it could've actually gamified all these moral and ethical considerations through some sort of risk reward mechanic and thereby properly utilize the medium. Instead they lazily slapped an average story onto a trite and generic third person shooter and took all meaningful control away from the player.

This game will never have good threads because it just isn't a good game, and the minority that think it's somehow meaningful are really misguided.

>>378941309
>they could have made it fun
the point


your head

>>378939272
When you are given the choice to kill the civilian or the soldier you can choose to just attack the enemies instead. You don't have to follow the game's directions

>>378941453
CoD niggers aping up.
It's that simple.

>>378941834
And instead of shooting the civilians, you can simply shoot into the air.
If you shot the civilians, you are a CoD brainwashed nigger.

>>378941632
Sure, but the alternative to playing the game the exact way the developers intended is not playing the game. That's not a choice, that's the absence of a choice. That's a cop-out.
That's like saying that you shouldn't complain about the ending of that movie since you could just turn off the TV.

When they don't give you a viable choice then you're forced to do it. And 99% of the time that isn't a problem in vidya - that's how games work. The problem is that the devs then seem to go "why don't you think about what you've done, huh?"
Yes, I killed them because I wanted to progress in the game, because that's how a game works. That's what my options are. So don't complain when I'm progressing in the only way I'm allowed to.

>>378941929
No no no.
Those civilians have murdered your friend/comrade and you could argue that killing civs in this case is justified as a revenge.You are already in hell,what's the point in caring about civs' lives now?

>>378941806
Its not a good game. The gameplay is shit. The story is alright. But the point and execution is flawless. Its just people not understanding what the fuck to do with it.

You have an idea for game of your own it seems, and thats fine I would play your game. But just because Spec Ops isnt that game it doesnt mean its worse.

I will never understand why people expect to have choice it this game. Thats the whole point of the game. You dont have a choice. You are told by the objective markers to kill those guys. So you go kill those guys. In the average brown shooter you might get an oversimplified assurance that those guys were bad guys. Well in this game you dont get those. On the contrary, you get hints that those are your fellow soldiers/ innocent civilians. But you are still told to kill them. Thats the point. YOU HAVE TO KILL THEM. its not your choice, its the story. All the game is telling you to do is question the objective. Not just in this game, in every game.

Just don't play the game you bought bro xD

This game, this fucking game.

The only one /v/ has tricked me into buying and actually regretting it. it is the most boring a derivative piece of shit game ever. How anyone managed to play it for more than 20 minutes before stopping is the real tearful story.

Who gives a shit if there's something interesting somewhere near the end if the game play is just total pants.

0/10 would not recommend

>>378942024
>I wanted to progress in the game, because that's how a game works
Muri-tard detected.

>>378942106
>question the objective
yes because I really should be thinking deeply about killing demons in hell

>>378942152
For GTA IV, Metal Gear 4 + Metal Grind 5 that's actually the best decision to make.

>>378942024
>That's like saying that you shouldn't complain about the ending of that movie since you could just turn off the TV
It's more like you can turnoff the TV any time when the story of a movie goes into a direction you don't like or are not interested in.

>>378942217
Yes, you should. Those guys were just chilling at their home, punishing the sinners as they were told and then some asshole with shitload of weapons bursts in and start shooting shit up.

>>378942217
demons are evil by definition (at least in religion)
In most cases you don't need justification for killing those.

>>378942317
>demons are evil by definition (at least in religion)
good goyim

demons are actually the good guys

>>378942106
I don't think anybody should need to make a moral consideration when we're just talking about video games. I mean sure perhaps video games could be less violent, but that's just how the world is, and really the core of what people come to play video games for is gameplay, the joy extracted from whichever mechanics are there.

Even should someone truly enjoy the violence or injustice depicted in a video game, and enjoy doing immoral and evil things, it's still just a video game. What meaningful statement can there be made? At best it attempts to chastise the player for enjoying fiction.

>>378942464
Maybe my wording was wrong?
Demons are defined as evil.
Excluding fantasy races and everything,in that case it depends on the world.

>>378942204
Actually, I'm a smug eurofag.

>>378942301

Yes. But that doesn't make the ending better, you're just avoiding it all together. Not the best example since you aren't supposed to interact with it. I was just trying to say that non-action isn't a viable option.

Let's say the game gave the player the chance to make Walker go home at that point. The game would end and you'd get a message about how Walker returned to service, never saw Konrad again and never found out what really happened in the city. That's fair. That's giving the player an actual choice.
It's not a matter of not liking the game but being unable to turn it off. It's about being presented with ONE option and then poking at the player for taking that option.
I fully get that Walker and the player would both do it, perhaps for different reasons, and it's fine when the game criticizes Walker, since it's basically his decision. But the player shouldn't be targeted for not turning the game off.

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It's a shit game and anyone who defends it should self-immolate.

>>378941453
Because the game wants you to reflect on your actions and feel bad since the main character, ie the player does some horrible things over the course of the game. However it's a linear game that gives very little choice in how you progress and so the message just feels hamfisted.

If there were alternate choices and paths that weren't necessarily obvious I think the message would've been alot stronger.

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>>378942486
You dont have to do shit, son. Do your thing. But we are talking about Spec Ops and I am trying to tell the "hurr durr shut it down" and "muh choice" retards what the game was actually about.

>>378942768
To each their own i suppose.

>>378942593
The player isn't criticized for anything in the game.
Walker is.
You misunderstanding criticism towards Walker for criticism towards the player is on you not the game.

>>378943065
Finally a guy who understood the game

>>378940467
Hollywood movies are so boring the game was legitimately better from a story perspective alone.

>>378939272
>this same tired fucking argument thats been disscussed to death and is only reiterated because the game is praised so highly
The point is you are playing it, thats the fucking point. The point is not "do you want to be a bad person? y/n?" You're not being smart, just making yourself look like an idiot. The fact that the game warrants such discussion in the first place is admirable.

>See game about mass murder
>Play game about mass murder
>Complain when game about mass murder points out the fact that you're playing a game about mass murder

Is it a game to you, or is it not a game to you? If so, why are you so angry? If not, why do you keep playing?

>>378943065
Not sure I agree fully. Yes, it's mainly about Walker and him dealing with all the shit, but I think the player himself is involved too in some way.
Like there's this loading screen going "The US military does not condone the killing of unarmed combatants. But this isn't real, so why should you care?" This seems firmly targeted at the player... unless we reach a bit and say that Walker has totally gone nuts - or it could be a hint to the whole hallucination-theory.

>not embracing this shit and killing everyone in the end

>>378943921
The lines are targeted to the player, but those are there to make you think about what walker is doing. Obviously, just because you cant change the story and must follow what walker is doing doesnt mean you shouldnt feel the quilt of those actions yourself.

Oh for fucks sakes. Everyone here is retarded.

The game isn't about YOU. It's about WALKER.

The game isn't calling YOU a bad person for playing. Almost everything is directed at WALKER.

WALKER burned all those people, and the game calls HIM a murderer. NOT YOU.

>>378941124
If it's just walker doing it why would that stop me from playing though?

>>378944350
I might need to replay it again, haven't played it since it was just released.
I left with the impressions that the game wanted the player to at least share a bit of the guilt, or think about why they did what they did. I know that most of it is directed at Walker, but like I said I seem to recall the game involving the player too in some way.

Meh, either way it's a fine game.

It's just a game you fucking nerds. Why people don't make all this fuss with the baby thing in bloodborne? Hell, stillborn kids are used as ritual material there.

i liked it and i think all of you are a bunch of whiney little babies that project their own shortcomings on a silly video game

evaluate priorities

>>378944569
Because Bloodbornes doesn't have loading screens asking why you kill stillborn.

Neither does Dead Space or edgy violent games in general.

Spec Ops is special because it actively shames player for playing.

>>378944569
Because of the writer's attitude towards the audience and the people that tout this game as some great horrors of war story.

>>378944607
It's a shitty video game, and it deserves to be shat on because how it tries to shame the player for doing something the game forces you to.

>people expecting some kind of 4th wall breaking masterpiece
>instead of enjoying walker's spiral into insanity
You guys are retarded. This is the second thread about this we've had today.

>>378944708
you wanted to play the game, you played it
it is a game about killing people
did you enjoy playing the game

>>378944772
Yes, I did, I played it the most edgy way possible and I laughed at the message.

The game is right, killing for entertainment is harmless.

>>378944503
It wouldnt, why should it? You should play the game to the end, then sit and think about what you played and what it says about modern military shooters.

>>378944520
Yes, thats what I am saying. It wasnt your choice, but you were executing the actions. You should share the quilt. And you should share the quilt of character actions in any military shooter. All those one thousand enemies you killed in the last CoD died just because the objective told you to kill them. But killing them was simple, since the game made them the bad guys.

Spec Ops put you in the situation where the objective tells you to kill and you have to do so. But it doesnt make it easy on you by making them the bad guys. They are just guys.

>>378944726
Does Walker's spiral into insanity involves playing video game?

>fire white phosphorus on civilians
>it ain't me starts playing

>>378944569
Because its a good game that promotes discussion and ideas

>>378944890
What does it say about modern military shooters?

Why is it killing demons and aliens okay, but killing durkas durkas not okay?

>>378944971
It's objectively not a good game.

Most discussions are also barebones, and involves into hurr the game doesn't target you vs the game actually targets you.

>>378941124
>>378943828
>>378941664
People who actually played the game without a preconceived idea.

>>378940572
>>378940581
>>378940938
>>378941185
Morons.

>>378944569
because more than twenty people on /v/ have played bloodborne

>>378944893
can you imagine being this slow and literal? how's your GED going, because I know you didn't graduate high school.

>>378945065
I ask again:
>Does Walker's spiral into insanity involves playing video game?

i played through it and felt nothing

is there something wrong with me?

>>378945046
yet its been years and people still feel the need to discuss those things whereas I dont see Black Ops 3 or whatever the fuck threads discussing their plots despite many other shooters being more popular and beloved.

>>378945049
Sorry Mr >>378940938 I messed up the quotes.

>>378944661
>>378944684
>>378944971
You guys give this game way too much credit. Don't get me wrong, I liked the game and those endings kicked ass but all that blaming thing felt forced as fuck.

>>378945147
People still feel the need to discuss such things because these ideas are contradictory.

The game directly addresses you but the fanboys will never accept that.

>>378945197
nah im not giving it credit, the fact that it promotes discussion is self evident.

>>378945124
guess not

>>378945124
No. You're just human. People say Silent Hill 2 ending is some sad shit, did nothing for me.

>>378945230
The point is it tried something interesting worth talking about, regardless if it succeeded.

>>378945197
I'm the first guy you quote, and what I meant is that Spec Ops is specially retarded.

No fiction should shame the player for merely experiencing it.

Even De Sade isn't that kind of an idiot.

>>378945268
i just remember hearing how it was pretty crazy and somewhat touching. ended up playing it and thought i got trolled (had avoided spoilers)

then read up on it. people are either extremely sensitive or i am a lunatic

>>378945284
What interesting thing in particular?

I just use the occasion to shit on the game.

>>378945319
You are mistaking a bunch of vocal fanboys for everyone.

>>378945364
I dont care to bicker with you, but the fact that there is an exchange of ideas going on in this thread is self evident. Which is more than I can say for any of the other /v/ tabs I have open that are just shitposting fun.

>>378945231
>>378945294
Got it, forgive me for being a retard.

>>378945461
The average shitposting thread has more exchanging ideas than this m8.

At least it doesn't go back and forth between

HURR YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR BEING FORCED TO KILL CHILDREN vs YOU SHOULDN'T

Apparently in testing the game actually had the option to turn back and thatd leave you to the ending where you abandon the place. The problem was that people would use it at the white phosphorous part and stop playing so they removed it.

>>378939272
>DUDE HORRORS OF WAR
The game's is ok, it deserves a little approving "Huh?.." and a little head tilt when you finish it, but that's about it.

It was to scared to actually go any extra mile with it's ideas - no raped women or fucked up children or anything like that (things that actually take place at war). So it didn't really stick.

It's overrated as fuck and >>378940467 is right.

>>378945319
Then this game wasn't your thing, which is fine. The problem comes when someone makes a thread about SpecOps and some guys go "hurr why was the game blaming me if I had no choice, how can this possibly break the 4th wall". When the main appeal of the story is Walker's development and the way it's transmitted to the player.

>>378940494
>Character does something that you wouldn't do
>Throw the book away

>>378945817
I dont think rape would have fit the story very well since the main character was going high on a super hero high.

>>378945319
Let me add. People also play this game and completely miss it's theme and then get mad when it doesn't deliver on what they were hoping for.

>>378941124
>We will never have a good Spec Ops thread
Because the game is shit.

>>378946297
It is, so why arent we talking about how shit the gameplay is instead of being absulute retards with "muh choice", "muh media" and "muh guilt"

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>>378945817
>having some unwanted sex
>worse than being burned alive with your child in your embrace
Fucking feminists I swear to god

>>378946703
I dunno man, that's just watered down hollywood shit, it doesn't rub me the same way some webms do.

>>378945817
This post reeks of reddit desu

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>>378946825
Are you telling me that you are so desensitized to violence because you see that shit all the time in the movies, but rape gets to you, since showing even tits on TV is crime punishable by death? Sounds like you have more pressing things to think about than Spec Ops.

>>378947283
One can argue that you can do worse things to a person than a quick death my man.

>>378945817
>It's overrated as fuck
>some people said it was great that means it's overrated
kill yourself
a game needs to be successful to be overrated, because whether a game gets bought is the only thing that matters, not what critics or commenters write about it
Spec Ops The Line is underrated if anything, it was a great experience but not really a success commercially (because that's the only rating that matters, retard)

>>378947416
>white phosphorus
>quick death
Cant say I agree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus_munitions

>>378947535
>Overrated
>Tells about the buys

>hurr durr popular game
>spoiled years ago
>"nah shit is overrated i dont like it lol"

every time.

>>378947602
Quicker than it could be.

>muh Heart of Darkness

Game was ass because the gameplay was ass. I like storytelling in games but you have to actually use the medium properly, otherwise just make a movie. You ever see a movie director blame the audience for not walking out because clearly that's part of the story within the medium?

Devs baka desu senpaitachi.

>>378944890
>You should share the quilt. And you should share the quilt of character actions in any military shooter.

Share the guilt for what
Nigga you realize pretty much everyone goes on random killing sprees on innocent civilians in open world games right?

If i dont feel guilty over that theres 0 chance doing the same when the game forces me to do so is going to work.

The problem isn't that the game guilt trips you as a character because thats the plot. The problem is that game was promoted as one where you made choices on how to progress and your decisions gave you different outcomes, but that wasnt the case.

>>378940572
>You were supposed to quit the game when you realized you were locked into the white phosphorus

Lol i use mustard gas on jagged alliance 2 all the time why would i stop for white fosforus?

>>378941664
No, there are definitely there to guilt-trip the player. Just look at those:
>If you were a better person, you wouldn't be here.
>How many Americans have you killed today?
>The US military does not condone the killing of unarmed combatants. But this isn't real, so why should you care?
>How many Americans have you killed today?

>>378947916
Yeah, but you are comparing it to rape. Next time I have the chance to choose whether I get raped by female soldiers or be poured white phosphorus on me and my family, I choose the rape.

>>378949124
>raped by female soldiers
What about raped by real soldiers?

>>378948225
There is a difference between intentionally fucking around in a game and actually getting caught up in the story. There are people who like to play shooters to feel like heroes, but they never feel anything in killing the hordes of enemy soldiers. Thats because those games make it easy on them. Spec Ops make it hard. Thats what makes it such a good game.

>>378948645
Those are all to make you think about what you are doing as a Walker. Jesus, how fucking hard is it to get this? Ieas fucking easy. You cant change the story, its not your story, its Walkers. But you are reliving it through Walker. Just because you dont have a choice to do those things doesnt mean you shouldnt feel guilty doing them. You cant just say "well, thats what the objective said to do, cant blame me for doing it".

>>378949407
I would rather be raped by terminator than to see my kids flesh melted away.

>>378949628
>You cant change the story, its not your story, its Walkers
Yeah except for those occasions where you can but it's easy for the developer to put in like shooting everyone at the end.

>>378950025
Meaning you CANT change the story, its not yours, its Walkers. How fucking retarded are you? I ran out of way to say this simple fact an hour ago. WALKER FIRES WHITE PHOSPHORUS ON CIVILIANS. Thats his story. You cant change it. You can only pull the trigger and feel what he is feeling. Thats what this game is about. If you want choices, go play RPG or something.

>>378950236
I don't know bro, but Walker surviving or not seems like a pretty big difference in story to me, so it's clear that you can. Did you even play the game?

>>378950295
You have a choice there, but you dont have one in the phosphorus scene. Why cant you fucking understand? Thats what Walker does. Thats his story.

One day we might get a game about you and we will get a choice whether we fap to cuck or futa porn. But at no point will we get a choice to not be a beta faggot. Since it wont be our story, it will be yours.

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>>378939272
- Shoot the sentenced / walk away / shoot snipers
- shoot angry mob / don't shoot angry mob
- kys
- kill Tyler Durden
- lower weapon / kill the rescuers / die trying

>>378939534
literally all endings are decided by your last decisions - nothing throughout the game changes it

>>378941664
>Those are there to make you think about the actions.

Well, they failed. Because I couldn't give a shit.

"HOW COULD YOU!?"

You wouldn't let me rappel down into certain death to try to sneak around and take out the guards, faggots. Your game, your "how could you!"

>>378950516
Aha, so it's only Walker's story when the developers feel like it's his story (while still blaming you for his actions) but then it's your story by giving you the choice in other parts but that's still what Walker does even though it's what you chose. I see, that makes a lot of sense.

Certainly a lot more than: we're lazy developers and we're only giving you choice when it's not a lot of work.

>>378939272
on the related note: i was genuinely surprised to discover how elaborate Cod Blops 2 was with making you decide the outcome of war

>>378950693
This would be very boring game if you could play it like an american dream military hero shooter. Got go hustle, but jesus mate, take a five and think about it.

>>378940494
>Hey buy our game
>why the fuck are you playing this game you monster
>You're litterally killing people. don't play this game because we said so
yeah I'm not buying anything else you put out.

>>378942204
>I like to buy games and just stand there for hours on end.

I wonder why they went for the 4rth wall thing and the whole "stop playing you monster" going on.

Remove that and the game is not only less pretentious, it helps the story from where I stand.

At the end of the day, the whole arc would have been better if it focused only on Walker going absolute maniac and loosing his grip on reality just as his fucking sanity over the stress and horror of the situation. Adding the player in the equation kinda looses me because it makes you aware its a game and you stop trying to immerse yourself into Walker's boots.

>>378939272
The is multiple ending, i chose to pirate it and not finish it and realize it's the best ending and best choice.