So can anyone actually defend this turd without bullshit excuses

Yes.

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>>378697350
then defend it and the piece of shit main character

the gameplay is silky smooth but everything else sucks ass

The end of MGS2 was so fucking dumb it ruined the rest of the franchise.

>>378697626
that is what happens when you introduce a retarded as hell plot element near the end of the game when everything is already fucked up.

The Patriots were a mistake

>>378697429
>>378697434
>>378697626
>>378697835
The game is actually, literally, figuratively and unironically too deep for you

>>378697626
>The entirety of MGS4 was so fucking dumb it ruined the rest of the franchise.

there you go, no need to thank me

>>378697215
>I'm a plebian: the post

>>378697940
see
>>378697215
>without bullshit excuses like
>muh 2deep4u

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>>378697973
>Old men fighting and then feels galore wasn't awesome

I want patriots to go and stay go

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>>378697350
>>378697940
>>378697973
>>378698101

>>378697215
what is kino

oh and what is ludo for that matter

>>378698334
/tv/ buzzwords. Anyone who uses those should be ignored.

>>378698224
>b-b-b-but muh fan service final bossfight

It's the only argument MGS4 fags ever bring to the table

>>378698326
I'd defend that decision before the fucking stupid decision of wasting millions in Joosten feet soles mo-cap any day of the week.

>>378698164
I'm not that anon, but it's true. You are quite literally too stupid to get the message and implications of the plot. I'm sorry you had to find out this way.

>>378697215
I will fancy your shitpost with some positives.

>Solidus best snake """villain"""
>Best performance from ocelot in the entire series, quotable lines everywhere
>Well paced game that stays interesting, and doesn't drag on for too long
>all the 4th wall breaking
>all the meta commentary which actually is deep and though provoking

>B-BUT MUH DEEEEEEEEEP 4 UUUUU

kill yourself, mgs2 is a breakthrough in gaming. It's an extremely unique and memorable experience in gaming and it's one of the best games ever made.

>inb4 meme-arrow responsing all my points

>>378698632
see
>>378697215 (OP)
>without bullshit excuses like
>muh 2deep4u

Raiden's a goofy bastard that does cartwheels and has stupid dialog, it's good for a laugh. MGS3 is more of a traditional MGS

>>378698451
Yeah I replayed it and I didn't care for most of it but there are definitely some golden moments. It doesn't compare to MGS2 or 3 though.

>Chode Talker is the most mysterious character in the trailers since you see nothing of him and he's an old dude with a cryptic name

>ends up being a cliché old dude that knows stuff and thats it

>>378698760
no?

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Let me first say
I am a huge fan of Metal Gear Solid, I have been since I was 5 years old, and back in good ol' 98 when this series first began (the solid series anyway) I remember being really drawn into the characters. In MGS1 you have some pretty interesting things being done, like breaking the 4th wall to tell you to check the back of the CD case to call Meryl, second controller port...etc
But with MGS2 I just kept thinking "Cool, but when do I play as snake again?"
After the tanker mission I just kept hoping I would play as snake again, not this beach bleach blonde haired faggot with the voice of Gen from the Dark Crystal...But that moment never came, and to further my annoyance with Raiden, the codec conversations aren't even that entertaining... At least with the tanker mission Otocon will accuse you of being a pervert if you upload certain photos to the computer, or shit like that, but what do you have to look forward to with Raiden?
"Jack, did you leave the toilet seat up? Like that's just so shitty of you, you fucking cunt"
"Jack did you just shoot that seagull? You fucking sadist piece of shit"
And then the big one that everyone hits me with
"But the game predicted so much!"
So does the simpsons, but you don't see me sucking homers dick over every coincidence that they got right. Learning all the characters you've met throughout the game seem not even matter in the end. Lady luck turns out to (maybe) have powers after all, and vamp is just a weird ass dude with robots for blood...
I want to like this game, but Raiden makes it so hard, when he's just an unlikable fucking autist.
>Inb4 'but snake is an autist too you faggot"
No shit, but at least he's entertaining about it, and seems to have an actual character buried under all of that, whereas raiden is just some fucking weeb with a sword in the end who just so happens to be a master with it.
Also Raiden in later games is the biggest Edgehog, fucking crybaby. I'm glad the series is over...

>>378698760
ditched the keycard+weapons way of progressto be more linear instead of backtracking the areas and unlocking shit, dumbed down story to please kids who wanted to be the hero of the story,"more of a traditional mgs"

>>378697215
I would have to say mgs1 is more impressive overall.
very clever what they did with the hardware at the time.

mgs2's strongest point is that it's premise is very clever and post-modern.
It raises thought provoking themes that are way more relevant to the internet generation than any other mgs game.

gameplay is still solid:^) too
I have a lot more fun sneaking around in mgs2 than in it's predecessor because you have a lot more movement options and it controls smoother.

>>378699236
>back in good ol' 98 when this series first began

Nope not reading that shit kid

>>378699236
>But with MGS2 I just kept thinking "Cool, but when do I play as snake again?"

the MGS2 fanbase is not giving to give a fuck about your entire post and just attack you only for this line

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>>378699458

>>378699589
I'm sure you keep that picture for when you're really mad

>you can kiss posters of models
>posters of models
>post modern
Engrish pottery

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>>378699768
No, that's this one

>>378697215
how different was this from the original sons of liberty?

>>378699931
It has Snake Tales and LOTS of VR missions.
It also had a skateboard minigame.

>>378697215
The word you're searching for is "sterile".

>>378699236

You get to appreciate Snake's character in a different way when you're not controlling him.
Like if you pull a gun on him when he's sleeping, still disguised as Plissken he wakes up immediately and aims his gun back at you.
He'll straight up kill you too I think. He makes you look and feel like a rookie following in his footsteps. It's kind of cool
and ties into the game's plot of turning Raiden into someone on par with Snake by building an elaborate simulation.

>>378700039
I didnt miss much then

>>378700281
on par?
what the fuck difference does that make if he's a super human monster now?

there's literally nothing on par with Raiden.
WE SLASHED UP A FUCKING x1000 TANK THAT POETICALLY COSTED A TRILLION TO PRODUCE

>>378700517
well thats a prime example of how mgs4 jumped the shark. not mgs2's fault.

>>378700281
I will agree with this, I do appreciate being able to view snake from a more outside perspective, but raiden in general is just hard for me to like, and admittedly a lot of my dislike of him comes from not enjoying the game he stars in as much. I am not going to argue that MGS2 is objectively a bad game, it's not, just as a MGS game it's probably on the bottom of the list of the main series for me.

>>378700579
yeah but in the grand scheme of things, it's how we're forced to perceive him now that we know the future

does anyone remember what would've happened if solidus won?

MGS2's story year on year gets more and more relevant. It's incredible how insightful it was.

>>378700318
No, you didn't miss out on anything if you already played SoL and it's not worth to buy the entire game again just for Snake Tales and VR, but if you ever want to replay it you should get the HD version of 2 that is basically Substance without the skateboarding minigame

>>378698741
Believe me, I can read. You might as well be asking me to play golf without golf balls. The gameplay isn't stellar, in fact it suffers from issues regarding camera angles in some areas, calling for an unnecessary use of the first person view in scenarios where, with some better conveyance, would work better. Gunplay is fine, better than it's previous entry. Weapon choice is interesting, melee fighting is not your best option (which is appropriate for a stealth title), and the game makes good use of it's environment as opposed to MGS4. Boss battles, while not stellar, are memorable and nail biting. But it isn't the gameplay you care about. It's the story. The story isn't entirely surface level, so If that isn't something you can get behind, then fine. But, it does exactly what it intends. It delivers interesting exposition about the setting, the characters (old and new) are as fleshed out as they need to be, and very little unnecessary things happen. The whole point of the end game story, memetics and meme, runs parallel to the previous entries themes of genetics and gene. Memes are explored around the end of the game when you find many of the events of the game run parallel to the events of MGS1. Group think (see /v/) and the human consciousness, societal evolution, the human condition, and free will are explored as concepts. These concepts are still relevant today, which is amazing considering that the setting isn't timeless and so much of it relies on technology. But things got a little heavy for you at the end, so you dipped out and posted on /v/, completely missing the point of Raiden's conversation with the Patriots AI. So there, that's why we like MGS2 and still talk about it. Because it's still important.

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>>378700802

>>378700668
I think thats fair. The other games in the series are really outstanding for the most part.
I personally feel that 1 is the most deserving of praise because of how creative and original it was while being a PS1 game.

But out of all of them 2's story and themes were the most interesting to me.

>>378697215

you wouldn't understand it unless you played it when it came out and were a bit educated, being american helps too because it takes place here and requires firsthand experience growing up in the american paradigm of the post-reagan military buildup. honestly 1 is better if you share these circumstances as well. sorry you couldn't get the full experience of these games, anon. i'm not here to argue with you, i'm just telling it like it is.

i'm sure it's different for the japs around my age who played these games, growing up knowing my grandfathers emasculated their entire national identity and playing with characters who represent this paradigm built on the foundations of that emasculation and other successful military endeavors.

in mgs2 in particular, there was this really good article on the internet back when it came out that related a lot of the ending to similar themes from the Ghost in the Shell movie.

>>378697215
It's the best MGS in gameplay and level design by far as well. You are most likely a dumbfuck that's only played Normal with tranqs.

>>378700926
/thread

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>>378701447
>BEST
>Not doing stealth/non lethal
>On the easiest game of the series

>>378700796
Solidus wanted to cause an emp power outage with a nuke. It would shut down the patriots but there would be no electricity for a while. I assume he would be President after that.

>>378697429
raiden was the greatest leg pull by kojima. you either love it or hate it

>>378702579
>people are strongly divided on leg pulling

>>378700926
[ ] not told
[ ] told
[x] out-fucking-skilled

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>>378703632
yeah that post really put it better than id ever have the inclination to in an argument with a mgs2-hater so here's this jpg for the future

>>378698334
Kino is /tv/'s term for pretentious, 2deep4u stories on movies. Ludo is basically that, but transferred to videogames.

>>378697215
It has the most content of the series while still being pretty solid, offering various playstyles, such as forcing no radar on Snake Tales, the FPS mode, or playing as a Ninja; Bomb Disposal was actually pretty good on missions outside the main story.
Now, while it is to some extent justified that you want reasons beyond 2deep4u to like this game, it really is its strong suit compared to the rest, which is saying a lot in a series that gets praised exactly for doing that in every single game

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>>378704107
huh... gross.

>>378700926
cringe

>>378704336
>didn't read

>>378704336
not an argument

>>378697429
Snake in MGS1 is the whiniest protagonist that has ever existed.

Raiden, on the other hand, isn't afraid of anything and talks down to and disrespects all the "big bad" freakshows. Singlehandedly taking down all of them like a beast.

Otherwise, yes. MGS2 is the worst in the series. Raiden was always great though

>>378697215
how is the plot nonsensical?

level design is pretty bad, yeah. way too many corridors for a stealth game. basically turns the game into red light / green light. boring

the gameplay though, is good. introduced a lot of new mechanics into the franchise, had some great boss fights, and as usual there are multiple ways to play the game

>>378700926
>Group think and the human consciousness, societal evolution, the human condition, and free will are explored as concepts.
None of those concepts are inherently deep. It doesn't make the game special.

>>378705012
Yes they'll all very deep. Sex.

>>378705012
What is an inherently deep concept? If you don't mind us asking.

>>378705012
Nothing is inherently deep, what you make of those concepts is what gives depth to any work of art
MGS2 isn't particularly deep, it's a rather shallow masterpiece, but a masterpiece nonetheless.

>>378705410
>nothing is inherently deep
>it's shallow

>>378705592
Are you having a meltdown? What's your point?

>>378697215
I didn't read this cesspool of a thread, but:
>Most challenging guards in the series, with a bunch of mechanics that didn't carry into MGS3 and beyond
>Gameplay in general is as good mix between the arcadey speed of MGS1 and the slow realism of MGS3, although that's really only evident in VR missions due to a lack of real gameplay in the main scenario
>The themes of digital censorship, fake news and memes are shockingly real in 2017
>So focused on showing off the potential of the hardware/"technology" that it still looks great today.

>>378698675
>you
>are
>one
>huge
>correct
>faggot

>>378705804
>the themes of digital censorship, fake news and memes are shockingly real in 2017
It's not shocking at all if it's been around for decades, regardless of whether it's digital or not.

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2 > 1 > 3 > GZ > PW = PO > V > 4

>>378698451
Act 1/2 of mgs4 are arguably the best mgs has ever been

>>378706261
You mean those levels that have literally no stealth because you can just sneak past while the PMC and the rebels kill eachother?

>>378698675
Isn't your inb4 literally what you did yourself? Nevermind

MGS2 is a good game and I had a lot of fun playing it. Kojima is a good writer and game designer. This is a fact. His games sell well and are often very well received. The story in mgs2 was a little pretentious, but all good writing is pretentious, that's just how you break new ground. It's not always a bad thing.

4th wall breaking isn't necessarily a good thing, and MGS3 takes the cake for staying interesting and innovative (contrarians know that your opinion is garbage) but I think it can be agreed that MGS2 was an important game for it's time that has aged fifty times better than a lot of other games.

It's solid. It's not perfect, it's not trash. It's solid. Enjoyable.

Gameplay wise it's like the first game but much better.

>>378697215
I had fun playing it

>>378698326
An underdog like raiden is miles better than le old guy that always wins