All video game guns should be projectiles. Hitscan sucks. If

>longest range most accurate hitscan weapon also kills in one hit
>muh realism

You can't dodge a bullet

I don't understand the premise of this thread. So, you want the bullets to be little things flying through the game world?

Wouldn't that be complicated for little toys?

>character has gatling gun/minigun/whatever
>game crashes on use

>>378453926
Maybe you can't, fatty.

>>378454074
>minigun
>it's worse than the pistol/assault rifle

I don't understand.
You can still dodge the aim even if the shot is instantaneous.

>>378453554
>All video game guns should be projectiles.
how does this work
do you just throw the gun at someone

>>378454219
Have you never heard of a bow and arrow? Same principle.

Hitscan is better.

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>>378454342
So this?

>>378453554
>thinks a warzone is a bunch of people playing dodgeball with bullets

>>378454342
well yeah the principle is the same, you throw a bow at someone

>>378454219
yes

real talk thi we need a game where nobody has any bullets and all combat is just people throwing their guns at each other

>>378453554
>raycasting
Kek nubs

>>378454442
The meme traced pictures kind of ruined it, but still kek.

>>378454469
>muh realism

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>>378453554
Honestly most games don't just use hitscan, they use projectile bullets that travel as fast as hitscan and are all managed by a projectile controller. The thing is that bullets moving at the speed of a bullet, while still having travel time, are also moving as fast as a bullet.

Still, there are games which manage to have slow projectiles, fast ones, and hitscan weapons, like titanfall 2. To conclude, if you're getting hit by bullets at medium long distance, or by extension getting hit at all, it's because you're shit at whatever game you're playing.

>>378454673

This was in a more innocent time when that was somewhat less frowned upon.

I still laugh my ass off when I see this image.

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>>378455050
>they use projectile bullets that travel as fast as hitscan

>>378455309
Huh what's the issue? A hitscan takes as long as the game logic needs to calculate the ray collision and modern bullets are too fast for humans to react to a shot anyway.

>>378455309
Simulated projectiles, dumbass. If anything gets in the way between the shot, then it can be deflected or whatever. Like how sniper bullets take time to travel in Battlefield games. If anything gets in the way, then the shot is stopped. But at closer ranges, the bullets are "instant".

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>>378455557
>>378455646
>i have no fucking idea how hitscan works
>i have no fucking idea how raycasting is different from firing a projectile

>>378455849
Why are you greentexting your own thoughts?

I feel half and half
on one hand I like how hitscan feels when shooting other people
but on the other, shit like the sniper from tf2 and the awp from counter strike encourage aimbotting, or training until your aim is as good as an aimbot

>>378454148
You don't need to dodge the bullet, you're the wall. Fatty

>make this
>shoot actual gun
>projectile moves so fast it's essentially hitscan
>wasted time not making it hitscan in the first place

>>378453554
The speed a projectile requires to go as fast as a bullet would not only make really bugged piece of trashes that will mostly fail to hit their intended target (because distance/frame would be really fucking large), but also really fucking expensive and probably going to fry your machine as soon as someone use an automatic weapon
>>378455050
>projectile bullets that travel as fast as hitscan
So hitscan?

>>378453554
You know: most "hitscan" weapons just have verry fast projectiles

>>378453934
What?

>>378456979
but thats wrong

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>>378456979
You know: most "hitscan" weapons just use raytracing

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>>378456864
>projectile moves so fast it's essentially hitscan
Or even more stupid, the projectile would travel so much distance in a single frame that it would get past your target, past the wall behind him, past the boundaries of the map and keep travelling over several frames until the game crash.

>>378453554
Borderlands 2 would have been better with hitscan only. You know, instead of just the CPU getting hitscan.

>>378456541
>encourage aimbotting
Sucks
>encourages getting good
What's the problem? If he's that good he's better than you

>>378454219
bullets are projectiles and have drop the farther away the travel, just like throwing a rock, but at high speed.

MGSV is a good example of bullets as projectiles, you can even see the bullet drop with a curve when using sniper rifles.

>>378456541

>>>>>projectile aimbots are not a thing

>>378456541
The issue is that either you make every bullets so slow and everyone is pretty much firing automatic huntsman, or you make them so fast it's pretty much an expensive hitscan so there's not really any point to it.

>>378457186
You keep saying this as if it makes you sound smart but it doesn't.

>>378453554
>If you can't dodge a shot at medium-long distance, it's not fun to play against.
The Arma games have every bullet simulated, but you still aren't dodging shit even at long range, because bullets are fucking fast. In a whole lot of games the range is so close that the difference between hitscan and properly simulated ballistics would be absolutely negligible (see: almost everything that isn't Arma)

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>>378453554
projectile with large aoe is fun, the rest is not, especially in multiplayer

Post some exaples of games where it would be better without hitscanning

>>378457691
you say this as if it doesnt happen

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>>378455557
become better

>>378453934
underrated post

Aren't most FPSes in cramped urban maps with fights at distances where trajectory and drop are less important? Shooting at a dude 50 ft away is dramatically different than one at 1000.

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>>378453554
more important question: can science do hitscan with curved trajectory, so the longer the distance, the lower hit point will be?

>>378458326
theoretically """yes"""

current hitscan still uses raytacing AFAIK and thats a no

>>378455849
>hitscan takes a game calculation frame
>bullet projectile with realistic speed goes so fast it hits the target within one frame
>nothing changes
What's your problem

>>378458326
>>378458669
Wouldn't it work if you managed to ray trace according to a function ?
Not sure how raytracing works currently.

>>378458726
>have laser pointer
>have nerf gun
>nerf gun shoots as fast as the laser pointer

>>378458253
>Aren't most FPSes in cramped urban maps with fights at distances where trajectory and drop are less important?
Yeah, most of them take places at ranges where using a 4x scope on a regular rifle would be a bit unnecessary, and a sniper rifle would nearly be a liability.

>>378458253
Yeah and neh, some maps can be quite large (several miles), but in general it's either cut by structures or visibility is lowered by culling to avoid calculating 500 million things
>>378458326
It's possible

>>378453554
even the lightning gun?

>>378453554
>lag spike happens
>suddenly shooting becomes next to impossible
No thanks.

>>378458838
ray tracing in its current form basically """shoots a beam of light""" from one point in space at an angle to another point in space -> if the indentation is within a players hitbox -> do dmg

its not that its not possible but the current raycast system cannot do angles and curves like that so you would need to create it from the ground up

>>378458861
You're retarded.
>raycast takes one frame to hit the target
>projectile of a modern gun goes so fast it takes the time of one to hit the target
The latter is just more expensive performance wise to do the same shit.

>>378458253
Yeah and this is why the idea that everything should be a projectile is silly. The biggest sightline in counter strike is probably less than 200m so bullet travel time/drop is negligible and you may as well use hitscan to save computation; in a game like Battlefield where it can be 1000s of metres using projectiles makes sense (if you're going for realism, that is)

>>378459326
But "shoots a beam of light" is just a linear function. What's stopping people from using a curved function?

>>378459326
That's why I'm mentioning "raytracing according to a function".
Basically instead of going along a straight line, use a function that takes the coordinates as the function's argument.

>>378458861
>Doesn't understand how fast bullets actually move and thinks they're as slow as foam toys.
You're pretty dumb friendo.

>>378459501
Even so, using projectiles would be flawed.
To catch targets in the distance between the previous and current position of the bullet, you'll need raycasting which is a straight line to cover a really really long curve, resulting in hit where it shouldn't happens (player/wall get hit by a bullet that was supposed to go over him/it for example) and vice versa (miss when it clearly hit) that would also make latency an even bigger pain in the ass during multiplayer.

>>378458838
He doesn't know what he's talking about, you can. Raytracing is nothing but drawing a line from point a to point b in a space, returning all objects that would collide in it's path. So yes, it is possible.

>>378453554
>All video game guns should be projectiles. Hitscan sucks.
Yeah, are you gonna code it then?

I unironically enjoy Planetsides gunplay, the drop and travel time feels nice.

go play overwatch
there are no hitscan weapons there.
not even the sniper class has hitscan.

>>378454557
Little Fighter

>>378454442
>2011 was 6 years ago
How times have changed

>>378460761
Widowmaker is hitscan and so is tracer and sombra, no idea about the others. That projectile you seeing flying is just an effect.

I don't think there any game that actually has projectiles that are actual physical objects flying through space and hitting targets, it's all just simulated

>>378461557
It sure as fuck doesnt feel like hitscan at all.
it has incredible delay.

>>378461683
Because it would require raycasting to calculate possible contact with the projectile, which is hitscan

>>378461716
You can add delay depending on the distance to give the illusion of bullet travelling or like most games, make an eyecandy projectile and use hitscan

>>378461716
Widow 76 tracer sombra mcree bastion and ana(scoped) are all hitscan. I think reaper and hog are too but doesnt really matter.

>>378461683
What about plasma weapons in Halo?

>>378453554
bullets are projectiles in general
there should always be a chance to dodge, even if the bullet is ridiculously fast

>>378461683
>I don't think there any game that actually has projectiles that are actual physical objects flying through space and hitting targets, it's all just simulated

Well yeah, because it's a video game. Video games aren't real.

>>378453554
It's called "raycast" a the reason games for a long time went with raycast detection was because it was cheaper on cpu and easier to get registered hits on fast action multiplayer, especially with things like lag on server that still persist to this day. PCs and the PS4 should handle "real-time" projection but lag and other systems may still need to rely on the raycast method

>>378459326
>the current raycast system cannot do angles and curves like that
you can do a curved raycast
this thread is full of people confusing instant/over-time hits with line/shape casting

>>378453554
Projectile lasers sound pretty cool desu

>>378457186
>it would get past your target, past the wall behind him, past the boundaries of the map and keep travelling over several frames until the game crash

You can delete the bullet after it reaches a certain distance

>>378463985
Adding up network latency, local latency and human reaction speeds, there is no way you could dodge a bullet after it has been fired. You can however dodge the other person's aim anyway.

>>378453554
Networks can barely handle hitscan correctly, projectiles would either need to be lag compensated or all have huge AoEs, neither of which to me are a better solution.

>>378463490
hog isn't, reaper is. D.va is hitscan too

I dont get this thread, do people expect to just do a dance and dodge everything? Are people mad at getting shot in a fps?

>Single player games
Hitscan for that powerful feeling

>Multiplayer
Projectile for skill

>>378453554
Are there any FPS that have no hitscan?

Even Quake 3 had two hitscan weapons
Fuck off m8

>>378453926
The point of this function is more so that when you're sniping from long range you have to shoot slightly in front of the target because of the long bullet travel time, like in the newer battlefield games. It's not so much dodging but being missed, aside from twitch shooters.

>>378465786
Battlefield
Counter Strike

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>>378453554
Authentic speed projectile bullets can't be dodged. It's not a matter of your opponent being able to dodge, it's a matter of you having to accomodate for gravity and bullet travel.

>>378465737
It's the kind of people who complain about realism but at the same time get mad when they get immediatly killed when they leave their cover

>>378465786
>>378466007
Actually Counter-Strike does have hitscan, sniper elite, battlefield, and a few other twitch shooters like quake don't use hitscan.

>>378466007
Counter Strike is all hitscan, what are you talking about

>>378465786
Hexen

>>378454219

Play STALKER, a game where all guns shoot projectiles.

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>>378466089
>Quake
>no hitscan

>>378460428
The only difference is a ray of fixed length versus a ray of infinite length
Collision detection for a projectile is just a ray the length of distance traveled.

>>378465786
Borderlands 2

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Ok so since some of you tards are already going off about stupid shit:

HITSCAN:
>a simple one-frame ray-trace from the muzzle of the gun in the direction it's pointing
>hits whatever is on the way, usually only first hit is used for damage and all that
>no gravity, wind, and all that shit

PHYSICS:
>an actual physics actor as a projectile
>spawned at the muzzle and given an impulse of correct force
>uses physics engine for movement, collision, etc
>almost never used, even for slower things like bows
>can have gravity, wind, and all that

HYBRID:
>what games actually use
>a raytrace that traces from the current position of the bullet to where it will be next frame (velocity*frametime)
>since you have a velocity vector which determines how it moves you can simulate gravity, wind, and all that by modifying it
>since it is run per-frame, exactly the same results as an actual physics projectile except easier to manage and network
>doesn't bug the fuck out at high speeds (read: any projectile or even arrow) like rigidbody physics stuff would
>if you want to see a bullet in-flight, just set the position of a sprite/mesh to be the start position of the trace each frame
>this is what almost every single game uses if they aren't using hitscan

>>378454557
In FoF you can equip gun throw as a perk and hold for a small charge before flinging your equipped gun at someone mach speed. If you manage to hit them it does stupid damage, but you'll be lucky if you don't die before you get the throw off.

>>378453926
What if I'm playing a fast character

>>378466254
This is good but I'm pretty sure many games with simpler, low (or no) physics projectiles just use actual moving objects with collision detection rather than using the per-frame hitscan thing

Like rockets in Quake and stuff

>>378454673
Where do you think those meme faces came from?

>>378466542
Yes Quake rockets do that, it all depends on the speed, when I said even arrows use it I mean at realistic arrow speeds. Rockets in Quake are really fucking slow so you can get away with not using traces and just use normal collision.

Generally anything going even remotely fast needs tracing though, since normal collisions will absolutely fuck up (unless you enable CCD or a lot of substepping, but all of those are much more intensive for basically no real gain).

>>378454219
You do realize that a bullet is an object that moves through the air, right?

>>378454673
Simpler times.

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>There are still games out there that don't account for ballistic trajectory, ricochets, and bullet penetration through soft cover

Really makes you think.

>>378459326
Stop bullshitting dude.

>>378453554
The vast majority of shooters are on maps that are at best 100m long, maybe 300m on some better shooters.

Bullet drop at those ranges has almost no affect at all unless you're game has some super low velocity guns.

Games with bigger maps already account for bullet drop and such (see: Arma)

Hitscan in most games isn't even raytracing from the muzzle but just crosshair position, which can be used to shoot behind your character/around walls in 3rd person shooters.

You have to mix the 2 together. Some weapons are better with hitscan and some are better as actual projectiles.

>>378466958
you realize that he was being facetiously literal, right?

>>378458326
>>378459326
see hybrid in >>378466254
If it did the entire travel with curves in one frame, it'd defeat the purpose

>>378466254
What would you use for a flamethrower?

>>378466007
Counter-Strike is literally ONLY hitscan. I don't think there's a single projectile in Counter-Strike except for grenades

>>378468151
These are usually slow moving hybrid projectiles that are fairly large, think the pyro's flamethrower in TF2. Each flame sprite is a separate entity with a far more limited range than most other projectiles.

>>378468151
Either a cone trace or if you want stuff to follow an arc, one or several sphere traces that form an arc.

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>>378453554
What if all players used hitscan?

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>game entirely based around fast paced skill-based combat
>1 (one) hitscan enemy just because fuck you

If the game takes place in tight corridors where you'll rarely shoot further than 50 feet, it might as well be hitscan. Same either way at that distance.

Shooting from medium to far distance and especially if there's sniper rifles, there damn well better be bullet travel, drop, maybe even wind influence. I won't put up with hitscan bullshit in that kind of game.

>>378468648
They are hitscan.

>>378468747
>aren't
fug

>>378468696
Usually game that uses hitscan for long range weapon also gives items to counter it (like the smoke grenade in CS to counter the AWP), although some devs are just too lazy

>>378468648
How do you even tell if npcs are hitscan?
How do you know they aren't just really good at aiming?

>>378468747
>>378468852
>lol its not hitscan it's just the exact same thing in practise

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>play any game with ballistics
>run around like a spaz
>can hear rifle fire in the distance and all the rounds miss

Worth it over hitscan just for this. I do it in RO2 all the time.

Even with bullets being nearly hitscan it feels a lot better. Shit like MP where you can see bullets slam into bodies is just great. Also in futuristic shooters with plasmaguns where you can see the glowing bullets pound into the body of your enemy is just really nice. With hitscan you just miss that

>>378465786
Planetside 1&2
ARMA series

>>378468648
Why did you happen to post an enemy with a short range conal attack?

>>378455242
Not really.
2011 is when leddit started to rear its ugly head with vectors.

>>378469409
Max Payne 3 is hitscan in normal gameplay, they only become projectiles in bullet time

>>378470164
>implying MP3 is an MP game
its just some shitty rockstar knockoff with dance party cutscenes and gang violence. So dont color me surprised they cheapened out on bullets like that.

>>378458726
>bullet projectile with realistic speed goes so fast it hits the target within one frame
More like one world simulation tick, but that's not necessarily the case. If the world is simulated at 60Hz, that's ~16.67ms. Now if you shoot a bullet at 1000m/s it would travel 16.67m in 1 tick and engagement distances could easily be much further than that. Even if your gun fires at 2000m/s the engagement could easily happen at long enough range for the bullet to not reach its target in a single tick.

>>378468360
To add to this, specifically either the flamethrower fires projectiles like a machine gun logic-wise where each one is like the aforementioned projectile traces with gravity and all that except a sphere trace (since the flame can be wide) or you simply know the arc length and curve, and sphere trace along it depending on sphere radius (e.g. an arc of 10m length would have 10 sphere traces along it with .5m radius). Sphere traces are very lightweight (especially if they are not along a path, then it's literally just a radius check).

Alternatively you could do as >>378468323, which is more or less the same thing. Honestly there are so many ways to go about it, it really depends on the specifics of your situation (and your engine).

>>378466089
>quake doesnt use hitscan
Have you ever played a bideo game?

>>378466706
are you implying that jackie chan made the meme face because of that image?