This was the best version of the game, bar none. Yes, even

You're not wrong

You're wrong

>>378437632
Pre-LFG Wrath was the pinacle of WoW.
BC and Vanilla fags are in denial and their rose-tinted glasses block all the problems from their sight.
Yes, Wrath had some of its own problems, but it was far more polished and less problematic than any other expansion. (as evidenced by the fact that it was both the expansion with the highest playerbase of all and the playerbase only grew and didn't shrink over the entire expansion.)

That aside, what's a good Wrath private server nowadays? (if there are any?)

Wrath was also the best time for talent specs, where every spec was was at least passable. That alone made it the best version of WoW

>>378437632
Not quite
its possibly the greatest gaming experience there ever was and likely to ever be

i am so nostalgic for this time. back when life was magical.

>casualized, welfare epics
>achievement score
>gear score
>microtransactions
>recruit-a friend, scroll of resurrection
>Death Knights overpowered in pvp
>Dungeon Finder
>So much Phasing in the world
>Saturday morning Cartoon-tier main villain written for 8 yr olds.
>good

No, WOTLK was not as good as vanilla/bc, it was the main expansion which took the MM out of "MMO". It was "Sit in dalaran queueing for dungeons/pvp simulator". It was extremely casualized.

t. Wrathbabby

>>378437790
>That aside, what's a good Wrath private server nowadays? (if there are any?)

There aren't really any "good" ones at the moment. Gamer District is 7x exp rates, 14x on weekends, but it's pay 2 win horse shit with no content other than ICC so you're not really getting much in the way of the WotLK feel.

There's a 1x non-pay 2 win BC server that just opened a few days ago, but it's BC so... take that as you will.

>>378437790
>Pre-LFG Wrath was the pinacle of WoW.

I'll agree with this, even if I'm still mad about how they butchered downranking (and as a not-CoH priest in BC, that was the best "healing" has ever felt).

>>378438648
kek yeah i haven't thought about this in ages since i only healed on the side. but yeah fuck this absolute shit change.

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>>378437632

Only up to 3.2

Pic related was the exact moment the game started going down the shitter. That patch pretty much set the foundation of everything that remains wrong with WoW to this day.

>>378437632

The best up until Dungeon Finder, you mean. That's when shit went downhill.

Hell, I'd argue that shit started sinking for WoW as soon as they introduced crossrealm battlegrounds. And I know it was necessary for certain low population realms, but at the same time it marked the beginning of the end of WoW's "community" aspect.

>>378437632

Questing was the only thing semi good in WotLK and the raids. Dungeons were made pitiful and fucking useless, and PvP became the most unbalanced fuck, even worse then Warglaive Rogues from Burning Crusade.

PvP only became semi-balanced towards the end of Season 7 and 8, and by then it was pure TSG comps and shit with double legendaries or fully haste stacked Wizardcleaves.

WoTLK undeniably killed the majority of the game, and the beginning of Cata tried to save it, but everyone hated it, so it got turned to TURBO shit.

MoP was the best expansion to date and it isn't even remotely debatable.

>>378437632
Lol no. This was the start of the cancerous tank pvp and deathknight cancer

>Implying
T7 was worthless, T8 is a contender for the worst tier and is a pretty clear pick for the first tier up to that point and ICC is mediocre (only two standout fights in LK and Putricide, and Lich King is thematically a huge letdown because I certainly had been waiting for an epic showdown between Jaina, Sylvanas, Mal'Ganis etc. but instead you fight valkyries and vrykuls and then Tirion turned Mary Sue takes the credit) which makes it offensively bad because ICC should have been fucking great. 5-mans were worthless from day one. There was a point during which PvP was probably the most balanced it ever was but that's not the whole expansion by a long shot (launch DKs say hi, so do everyone and their mother who had Shadowmourne in the end) and I think the general style of PvP got worse. Moreover, battlegrounds are worse for SotA and IOC being introduced to rotation because they're awful.

Classes are homogenized to hell and back, the concept of tier progression was eliminated with old raids being rendered obsolete the moment a new one released, RDF was introduced, professions became a source of identical stat bonuses (except that they weren't identical and JC+BS was optimal for virtually everyone because you can get x amount of stats of your choice) and it generally fucked up or removed any redeeming from a plethora of designs that worked in TBC (for example, world PvP that had already suffered blows was pretty much eliminated for good seeing as that farming in contested areas became not a thing, the necessity to use meeting stones was removed, mount cast times were reduced and slow flying was buffed to 160% so as to remove any incentive to use ground mount, hyperinflation made 280% flying affordable to everyone).

>>378438957
This felt like such awful filler I swear

>>378439242

I find it sad to say that balance wise this is objectively correct, and I really don't like MoP aesthetics at all. Burning crusade is a close second.

>>378439470
>>378439470
>JC+BS

Hated that shit. I finally had to level professions and it had to be those two for muh special snowflake gems and special snowflake sockets

>>378439470
Of course, WotLK has redeeming factors like one hell of a raid (in the shortest patch, replaced by fucking TOC), nice areas and more involved rotations for most DPS classes are a positive even though tanking and healing were ruined and class design by large got worse.

Despite the problems WotLK had since launch, many of the worst things were yet to come and Ulduar is an excellent raid. I wouldn't argue against 3.1 being the best patch of the game, I kinda agree. But as a whole the expansion is trash.

>>378437632
You are correct.

Wraithbabbies are the worst. Kill yourselves now.

>>378437632
WOTLK went down the shitter after dungeon finder. They should have never introduced that feature.

questing in northrend was pretty comfy. wotlk tree was prob my fav.

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>people itt complaining about "wrathbabies"

extra points for being a retard if you unironically think that game where three(3) classes are allowed to have fun is great game

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>people unironically think LFG was a bad idea

>>378438957

This

Beginning of fucking welfare epics, explosion of dailies, mandatory rep grinding. If dungeon finder had come out in this patch instead of the one after, 3.2 would without a doubt be the single worst patch in the history of WoW. It possibly still is but at least it's arguable now.

>>378440003
BC had way more viable shit than WOTLK's one best healer, one best tank, one best dps

>>378440003
>in ICC, all classes had at least 1 spec within the top 10% of DPS
How is this only 3 classes having fun again?

>>378438532
>says he loves BC
>complains about OP PVP classes
>complains about bad villains

hypocrisy much

>>378440074
>he unironically thinks the very feature that killed the WoW feel by killing any and all sense of community and communication was a good thing in any way

>>378440103
you mean like how one of the tank classes was literally mechanically incapable of tanking Illidan right?

>>378440226
Not true.
>all paladin specs were viable and demanded
>all priest specs were viable and demanded
>all druid specs were viable and demanded
>all shaman specs were viable and demanded

Yeah, sure. That alone already makes WotLK better than BC or Vanilla

I miss throwing down and fucking up other guilds in front of BC raids. I was the one retard who would raid in pvp gear.

>>378440312
>sense of community
You mean spamming trade for a group?

>>378440352
Still more variety than wrathshit had.

>>378440478
>all classes had at least 1 spec within the top 10% of DPS
>at least 1 spec
>what is reading comprehension

>>378437632

b-but anon that's not BC

the best expansion is the one you start to do some serious raiding or PvP,

>>378437632
True, especially when it came to class complexity in pvp. Beating a frostmage as an arms warrior with all the shield switching and baiting, spellreflect and stance dancing etc

I used to log onto a lvl 1 character and watch duels on stormscale eu horde side just to pick up new tricks for myself.

Compared to that the live version is retard proof and it makes me sad about the state of the game when i think about it.

>>378440601
Sorry, my bad.

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>People who never played the game when it was actually good (Vanilla) and started playing in WoTLK when they were 12 years old

That's literally every single WoW thread on this board.

>>378440312

>Community
>Not circlejerk

>>378440003
Optimal TBC progression raiding composition (no encounter-specific classes, with that logic balance is also good because moonkin can solo tank shaman on High King Maulgar) features more specs than WotLK.

Hell, despite the whole idea of class interdependency being thrown to the trash can, TBC is pretty much even in terms of personal DPS too (say, enhancement is 75% of Thori'dal hunters and fury warriors alike, but in TBC their raid DPS contribution is as high as their personal DPS while in WotLK the only unique buff enhancement brings is Enhancing Totems SoE being marginally better than Horn of Winter) and "non-viable" specs (such as subtlety rogues and frost mages) tend to be much closer to par.

Druids became the ultimate cancer class right after DKs

>>378439470
Wow, I've never seen more historical revisionism in one post.

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>>378437632
>>Yes, even after Ulduar
>Defending the WoD levels of abortion that Trial of the Crusader was and all the shitty dailies it brought with it.

>>378437632
In fact I think WotLK was the beginning of the end. It nerfed heroics, added dungeon finder, nonsensical BGs reliant om gimmicks among other things. For me TBC was the peak.

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>>378440859
>TBC
>Hunters
>Thori'dal

Thori'dal wasn't even BiS for Hunters. It was literally a Rogue bow.

>>378438957
I remember hanging out in those stupid circus grounds when someone mentioned that they datamined some stuff for cataclysm in chat

I was there the exact moment WoW went to shit

>>378440847
>People who never played the game when it was actually good (Vanilla)

I swear to god, anyone who writes this shit is either rogue, warrior or mage main. And when they were nerfed to the ground and stopped being op you popped out like mushrooms with this "vanilla was good" meme and complaint about wow becoming shit.

>>378438640
>There's a 1x non-pay 2 win BC server that just opened a few days ago, but it's BC so... take that as you will.
Name?

>>378437753
>>378437706

This

daily reminder that s8 was the best pvp season and despite blizzcon being so terrible it was only because melee didn't have pve gear to balance out the wizards

>tfw no 45 minute games against shadowmourne dispel cleave

>>378440586
>1 out of 3 tank classes can't tank the most important boss in the game in TBC
>every tank class (out of 4) can tank every boss in Wotlk

somehow this makes Wotlk have less variety

>>378440859

I loved TBC despite playing a ret paladin (so no serious arena/raiding for me). I'd have checked out that new TBC server if it wasn't for me having a full time job...

>>378437790
>>378438532
Reminding that:

>LFG only uncovered how bad the majority of the player-base actually was. You never found these people because for the longest time they never got into groups because of how bad they turned out to be in regular dungeons. Now there's an automated system that gives them a free pass, and the game's been casualized enough for them to "achieve something".

>BC introduced welfare epics, daily grinding, and much of the framework of the WotLK systems.

>tfw maining a Paladin since vanilla into 3.3.5

Ret tree was so perfect and complete. We got everything we asked for. ap>sp, aoe talent, baseline consecrate, mana regen talent, supreme dps raid utility and divine storm was tits. not to mention that wotlk was pretty much a paladin themed expansion. hell we got an exclusive pally only mount in the argent tourney and thematically shadowmourne was made for paladins

>>378437790

warmane

>>378437632
Vanilla to Wrath was great. Cat was a sharp decline to shit until Legion, where WoW is just okay again, but there's not much hope for the future.

>>378441116

More proof you never played it. Every class was good in vanilla, it's actually the most balanced the game has ever been.


>>378441208

This is why WoW became such shit over time, the slow paced pvp. Wow its so fun having invincible healers and running around pillars for 45 minutes. This started in TBC and got fully retarded in wotlk and beyond.

>>378441398
MoP was great anon

unless you're actually retarded enough to be bothered by a canon race becoming playable. Other than that, ToT is one of the best tiers in the history of the game.

>>378441312
Except that's wrong. Wotlk had a fucking raid designed to be free epics. Wotlk pandering to the worst of playerbase is what killed the game.

>>378441312
>ou never found these people because for the longest time they never got into groups because of how bad they turned out to be in regular dungeons. Now there's an automated system that gives them a free pass,

>what is vote for expulsion

>BC introduced welfare epics

Oh, it's another vanillashitter

>>378441393
Does it have any of the typical pay2win bs I hear about a lot of other private servers? (like "donate money to earn points to buy gear in game" kinda thing?)

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>>378441509
>Every class was good in vanilla, it's actually the most balanced the game has ever been.

I don't necessarily doubt that you played vanilla, but I do think you were probably underage at the time and/or have a terrible memory. You probably played something overpowered and considered everything balanced because you're biased.

>>378437632
Wrath with all the content it was originally slated to have would've been fantastic
Wrath as it was was alright
>No Gundrak raid
>Utgarde Pinnacle made into a 5-man instead of a raid
>No underground Nerubian zone
>No Nerubian raid
>ToC being an utter waste of a raid tier

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>>378441509
>More proof you never played it. Every class was good in vanilla

Now this is too obvious.

>>378441567
I'm just stating facts man. When you could just grind heroic dungeons which were comparatively easy to the raids.

I remember the day the ICC patch came out. It was my first year of college, the winter of 2009, I was at school all day but my last class was cancelled because a snowstorm was coming in. I went over to my buddy's house to try out the new dungeons. It was a magical time.

>>378441573

you bet it does

>>378441163

Warmane Medivh

Google it

>>378441663
>NO NEW DANCES

Fuck blizzard

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>>378441790
ty

>>378441312
>welfare epics


Still wasn't that bad.


>daily grinding


You were under no compulsion to do dailies. The entire point was to offer people who didn't want to farm or work the AH a means of making gold. Come Cataclysm whoever took over the reins of game design had no concept of this though and dailies became a surrogate for content.

>>378439470
>Classes are homogenized to hell and back

This isn't true at all. Many classes had exclusive, and important buffs that were entirely unique to their class. Things like decursing was still entirely relevant. Dispel wasn't turned into a meme button that's exactly the same for every healer. Cata is where this shit got fucked up.

>>378440478

This retarded mentality is what ruined the game. You're playing a class, not a fucking spec. Every tree in Vanilla was utilized even if it was only the extra x1 points.

>>378441509

The only reason s8 had "slow paced pvp" is because people literally perfected CC chains and their DRs by that point. It was a herculean effort of coordination for both teams to not just get immediately bursted by wiz shenanigans within seconds.

>>378441080
Steady Shot doesn't receive damage boost from ammo so Thori'dal, thanks to ammo DPS being rolled in to the weapon damage, is an enormous boost.

>>378441307
Ret is a part of min/maxed raid composition for Horde (since Seal of Blood is better than Vengeance/Command, they have to make up for much lower amount of personal DPS loss). For Alliance it's not a straight-up raid DPS boost but utility is nevertheless quite sizeable (keeping up judgement of light as well as wisdom which indirectly translates to DPS as well thanks to locks not having to life tap etc, prot pally not having to spec into or judge crusader and you can get it on mobs that protadin isn't currently tanking, not having to take a second holy paladin for blessings or buff outside the raid).

>>378441509
>rogues comboing someone 100-0 with grey daggers
>mages infinitely kiting warriors
>hybrids getting the shaft unless they submitted to pressing heal buttons 24/7
>chain fearing warlocks
>the state of Paladins in general
>battlegrounds consisting of warrior/healer/mage stacks because they're all you need

vanilla balance was a fucking mess

>>378441331

I'm still kicking myself for quitting before WotLK came out. I remember the bridging patch where I could kill rogues with Retri aura by turning my back to them and just spamming FoL. I even got to 2,2k mace playing with a disc priest in 2s, saw a whole influx of retards who didn't know how to play Ret (but still respecced cause it was retardedly broken)...

I still consider myself an honorary glad (for what it's worth) because I hit 2,3k on the first (and only) PTR arena realm playing Ret/Arms/RShammy. The Disc Priest I used to pvp with actually said he wanted to play 2s with me in WotLK where he'd roll DK. I distinctly recall hearing how ez-mode that combo was and since I was a dwarf pally (and thus would have an edge over DKs with Stoneform), we'd have probably raped people all the way to proper glad since so few people actually knew how to play Ret, it was that much of a garbage spec.

>>378440003
It's the +7 arcane resistance on these that makes them good.

>>378441938
>only X spec should be viable
get a rope

>>378441650
Every class was good
That wasn't true of every spec
And a lot of that was because the gear flat out didn't exist for them (Ret/Prot Paladins, Enh Shamans, Bear Druids), not being able to get enough mana to actually keep going through a whole fight (Ele Shamans, and to a lesser extent Hunters).

The only spec I'd say was truly fucked was Boomkins (they only got mana back on fucking melee attacks so they were even worse off than Ele Shamans)

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>>378442131

Every spec in vanilla had a function in the game, whether it was utility, pvp, leveling, or whatever. The idea that every spec needs to be it's own self contained cutting edge raid viable thing is retarded.

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>>378442091
>>the state of Paladins in general

>>378441952

Sadly I played Alliance (Dwarves for life, yo).

You're not taking into account the stigma attached to playing ret. Seriously, I recall people giving others shit for it in all chats all the time. I'm pretty sure Elitist Jerks had plenty of calculations discouraging people from using Ret paladins.

Secondly, I remember hearing rumours how top guilds didn't even invite PALADINS at all to raids, they just paid them 100g to buff blessings. The only fight that needed Ret was Brutallus due to improved JoCrusader. I do agree however that Horde got a much better deal with Paladins, Seal of Blood was a solid dps ability and it naturally allowed paladins to regain mana from healing their self-damage.

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>>378442297
>skeletors ITT

>>378437632
Blizzard should have ended WoW with that and just added super gigantic free updates afterwards instead.

>>378442297
>undead rogue getting DEUS VULTED

if that paladin hadn't been specced into Reckoning and was actually Ret like the title suggests, he would've been fucking boned. paladins are literally the only class that as a rogue you hesitate in ganking unless you are 100% sure he isn't Reckoning specced.

>>378441509

>More proof you never played it. Every class was good in vanilla, it's actually the most balanced the game has ever been.

Druids and Warlocks were so broken that Blizzard even made a self-depreciating joke in the AQ40 unlock quest chain about your raid probably only getting warlock and druid epics that you'll just disenchant.

Druids were a bad version of priests who suffered from diminishing returns because of how HOTs worked in classic, so you mostly only brought them for innervate, and battle rez.

Warlocks were in much the same boat. While they could DPS as well as a mage, it came at the cost of precious debuff slots on the boss and involved spells that had intentionally up-tuned threat baked in. So a high DPS warlock was a dead warlock. You mostly brought them for the blood pact imp buff and curse of the elements.


>>378441116

Vanilla was good. It wasn't because of the raids- they were actually good, if critically flawed by today's standards- it wasn't because of the classes- they were in a bad state- or anything else, but because the game carried an expectation that you'd be social, and servers were self-contained communities. You became social whether you wanted to or not because you ran into the same people over and over. If you were a little shit that reputation followed you around.

>>378442296
Not him but there's only one real thing to do in this game anymore though. Who cares about a spec being good at levelling when levelling is absurdly easy as all specs? All specs need to be somewhat viable for raiding because raiding is all there is.

>>378442696
True enough, but that wasn't the case in Vanilla.

>>378442631
>but because the game carried an expectation that you'd be social
Yeah, sorry, I want to play a game and have fun. If I wanted to have fun by interacting with people I would go outside.

>>378442297
>reckbombs

I miss them.

Too bad blizzard nerfed it and removed the bug like the fun hating puritanical cunts that they are.

Reckoning was pretty much the only thing that let you do shit in PvP as a paladin. After they removed reckbombs, no paladin on my server, myself included, would do battlegrounds.

>>378442296
Moonkins were pretty meh besides the crit aura. And Survival Hunters were a joke.
And I can't even think of a reason to go full Ret Pally, for PvP it'd be better to just go most of the way down Prot for Reckoning bombs with the beefiest 2H you can get your hands on.

>>378442297
>Le retbomb epic build
Your memes are over a decade stale.

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anyone who actually did sunwell knows that it was a legit awful experience and was just way too fucking hard to be considered enjoyable, nearly every single boss was a guild killer
dont even bother replying if you think sunwell wasn't that hard because that will simply prove you never progressed it

>>378441550
>le BC was hard meme
kek

>>378438957
i started losing interest and stopped playing after that patch, so you are as good as right about that

>>378442472
Ret wasn't actually a viable DPS spec in PVE till Wrath. It just didn't scale well relative to other melee DPS.


>>378442296
While I'll agree that not every spec should carry an expectation to be bleeding edge viable- that's how hunters got fucked in the ass in Legion- every spec was not viable in classic. Many were flat out bad. Arcane served no point, feral was bad, balance was bad, most classes only had one workable spec. Druids and warlocks in PVE were just a bad version of another class that was saved by the grace of unique abilities like combat rez and curse of elements.

>>378442973
it was pretty though
and it came with the Isle and a decent 5man dungeon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNstdF54ypo

>>378441663
Weirdly enough, I'm not nearly as bothered by the cut content in wrath because I think the expansion is still good on its own (and nothing is stopping them from using the really good ideas later on down the line). What really makes my blood boil is WoD's cut content. I am still actively mad about all of it.

>Bladespire Citadel is a quest line, doesn't end up being a capital
>no interior of Karabor, isn't a capital
>no Shattrath Raid
>no Zangarmarsh
>garrisons gutted
>no Farahlon
>no ogre island
>no southern continent
>Yrel's storyline
>Ogrim Doomhammer being killed by Blackhand in a quest

There's cut content in every game, but this is actually fucking pathetic.

>>378437790

Patch 2.4.0 was the pinnacle of WoW whether you wrath-fags liked it or not.

"B-but muh playerbase!" stfu that means jack shit, the game was so good during BC that naturally people thought the next expansion would be even better. And the playerbase didn't dwindle because Blizzard took a fuckload of time to add ICC

>>378442847
Then why play an MMORPG?

The fact that you play with a huge community in an active game world is the draw. The community is what sets an MMORPG apart from any other RPG. Any modern RPG is going to have better gameplay.

>>378443057
>Arcane served no point

I'm gonna assume you mean before the talent revamps. Afterwards, if you were raiding something that was Fire immune, you'd go 31/0/20 with only one Mage providing Winter's Chill.

You're right about other points, although what Locks were limited by was threat (as it was stated). Even with Blessing of Salvation they could shit so much damage, they'd need to be reminded to control themselves.

>>378443205
>And the playerbase didn't dwindle because Blizzard took a fuckload of time to add ICC
Except the playerbase did dwindle when they started taking a fuckload of time to implement shit, just look at MoP and WoD.
Face it, the vast majority of players agree that Wrath is the pinacle of WoW.

>>378442973
The Sunwell patch dropped by FPS by a consistent 10-15. Just trying to do the dailies to unlock and open everything was a major PITA.

>>378443057
>Arcane served no point
Arcane/Frost was the way to go for your guild's best geared mage in MC and BWL, with at least one other mage going full Frost for that Winter's Chill talent and pulls with Improved Blizzard
Otherwise though I think Fire was still top DPS, IIRC

>and warlocks in PVE
Nigga what? Warlocks do crazy damage and can go forever. In a 40 man with a token Shadow Priest and like 4+ Warlocks they can shit out some serious numbers. An offtank or a shaman running around with Nightfall helps too.

>>378443294
>Then why play an MMORPG?
That's why I prefer WotLK - it has both social interaction fun and game fun. Why would I want to suffer through horrible gameplay just to have some "social" fun?

>>378443202
Don't forget that Garry died off-screen in a scripted cut scene. And Grom Hellscream was redeemed off screen as well.

At least garrisons were profitable as fuck. Legion forces you to spend an hour a day grinding repetitive content to employ the monkey model class hall version.

>>378441663
where is my ship blizzard

>>378443202
I stopped playing after Wrath so I don't even know about the shit that came later

>>378443057
Pure arcane was trash yeah. However having clearcast for blizzard-aoe was fun for farming (and that one boss from ZG that summoned the skeletons constantly).

>>378443363
The real issue for Locks was threat. So much fucking threat.

Wrath's easing of the raid system was honestly fun for someone who didn't want WoW as a second job.

>>378443363
>In a 40 man with a token Shadow Priest
Hello, nobody took shadow priests because of the debuff slot limit. Instead they took anyone who can stuck armor reduction so the ACTUAL op dps(rogue) would do even more damage.

>>378443550
Yeah pretty much. If you had excess Shamans a Tranquil Air totem could help but usually they were all being hogged by the Melee groups.
Did Pallies even have Salvation in Vanilla? I've never played Alliance.

>>378437632
You're right

>>378437958
This
I could make surprisingly many viable-ish specs as a rogue

>>378443202
Wrath's cut content makes me so ass blasted.

>Entire Azjol'Nerub zone
>All the shit they advertised during reveal like path of the titans

Arthas fighting some huge underground war against Yogg would've tied everything together so nicely.

>Arthas goes to such lengths to try and turn you into his champions for the war effort
>There must always be a lich king, because if not hordes of crazy nerubians and twilight's hammer will pour out of Azjol'Nerub
>tfw no giant spider zone spanning the entire continent

>>378443694
They did, but you really didn't bring enough Paladins to be able to use at will. You'd save it until some high damage phase came out then put it on a Warrior or something iirc.

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Would you play a Warcraft version of *minecraft?
*Better models, classes and mechanics but you can dig and build as you please

tirion setting up a renfest basically on arthas' doorstep and the overall lack of resistance from the scourge throughout much of the expansion made it suck ass, the alliance and horde just rape everything in a full scale assault and theres no forward bases that get destroyed in a scripted event or anything to set everyone back a bit, its just a landslide victory with minimal losses, or the IDEA that some of your faction's fortifications will fall (i.e. wintergarde keeps' walls supposedly going to give way in six hours after you've completed a quest, nothing comes of that)

it's boring when you keep winning but everyone is acting like you're getting your ass beat

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>>378437632
Continent wise I'd have to agree. Leaving Northrend behind stings to this day when I get nostalgic about the game.

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>>378441573
>>378441732
As someone who plays on Warmane's Lordaeron server, here's a quick rundown of the server
>Population is decent. Level 80 pvp lives but below that its all dead
>LFG is disabled
>Updated models
>There is a coins-store, but unlike warmane's other WOTLK server it only serves for mounts, pets and other thingymajiggs. No gear
>Quite a few active guilds raiding ICC, trial of the crusader and Ulduar
>Global channel to help look for dungeons
>Lots of people from the balkans who are surprisingly friendly aslong as you make them believe they're the only Balkan folks you hang with.

All in all, Warmane's Lordaeron server/realm is a really pleasant, mostly blizz-like experience. Could definitly use some more people though, so come on over!

[/shill]

>>378443816
Well that's what I said. Nothing is stopping them from making a Nerubian Zone now or in the future. They could have cut it because they didn't think they could do the zone justice at their current level and are saving it for when they can.

>>378443320
I played a druid and a warrior primarily in classic, and only raided with my druid so I'll have to take your word for it. I mostly remember people mocking the shit out of arcane.


>>378443363
>Otherwise though I think Fire was still top DPS, IIRC

You only didn't run fire spec if you were fighting fire immune bosses.

>Nigga what? Warlocks do crazy damage and can go forever.

And then they'd promptly die from pulling threat. Mages could do as much damage without uptuned threat spells and even when they did grab threat they at least had ice block. Warlocks had to gimp their own DPS or else they'd be dead and do no DPS.

>>378443912
no because at the end of the day it's still fucking mineycrafta

>>378443680
My guild had one since we had a lot of Locks in our 40 mans. It worked out.

>Implying Warlocks weren't the heart of every raid due to summons

>>378444008
i'm level 22 and had to skip doing deadmines because there's fuck all people in westfall to group for it. now i'm in redridge and there's no one doing any of the elite quests (the ones to kill all the orcs) and i can't even get yowlers paw because there's no one else around to help take on the 6+ mobs he's around.

servers fucking dead

>>378443912
no
I would love to play an mmo where you could build towns though

>>378444258
>warlock doesnt want to farm a billion soulshard anymore
>gets kicked

>>378444278
Did you join /global? There's usually people searching/willing to help there. I didn't have a problem at all when I was levelling in Westfall (less than a week ago)

>>378444364
I played a Warlock for a bit in TBC and I never had a problem farming soul shards.
I mean yeah in Vanilla you couldn't just farm it up 2 feet outside of Shat but you could fly up to Azhara or whatever was close to an Alliance town.

>>378444258
>not riding with your group to the raid entrance together
>getting sidetracked with wpvp and killing filthy orcs along the way

you can give us all healthstones in ironforge though

>>378444249
Most raids took at least one, at least on horde. Shadow Priests would be stuck in the group with any locks so they could help negate the Lifetap damage and also benefit form the SM/Ruin debuff, whatever it was called.

Horde Spriests in vanilla could do a surprisingly large amount of damage if you had low ping.

>>378442297
I miss this.

>>378444414
i thought i could just ride around the zone and at least SEE other people doing quests around my area but i'll be lucky to see another person at all

>>378444506
>do this
>still have to summon the 10 retards that exist solely to fill slots

>>378444541
You didn't have to be in the same group as the Warlock to benefit from Improved Shadowbolt and Curses since they're debuffs on the boss, but yeah basically.
Devouring Plague was good too but hoooo shit that mana cost, good thing it has the same cooldown as Inner Focus.

>>378444604
I've seen plenty of that aswell, though I might be lucky and somehow am riding a recent new join-wave.

>>378442472
>The only fight that needed Ret was Brutallus due to improved JoCrusader.
If ret is a DPS boost for the raid on pure DPS encounter then it's a boost on other encounters as well. There's nothing gimmicky on Brutallus that would make ret particularly good (bubble could remove Burn but melee don't have to worry about that anyway because they're not taking Meteor Slash).

I mean, it's no secret that people back in the day were prejudiced against ret (or just ignorant to what is actually optimal), but as you yourself point out, at least some guilds grudgingly accepted it when push came to shove. Ret of course isn't a NECESSITY, even for Horde it's not much more raid DPS than another rogue, but it is optimal.

As for not wanting to have pallies in general, on most encounters you want two dedicated tank healers and pally+druid is preferable to two of either. One holy paladin spot is pretty much secure on all encounters. Prot on the other hand is almost obligatory on some encounters (like Felmyst), helps a lot on others (like Kael'thas, tanking "all of the rest" weapons) and is optimal on others but you won't be kicking yourself if you don't have one (like Reliquary of Souls P3, due to mana burn being much less damaging than rage burn and ability to establish threat lead with wings during Seethe). When you don't need three tanks then ideally you'd of course drop one and prot is a quite natural pick, but (something that retail guilds didn't know) it pays off to have a geared protadin so you'd actually want them in all raids even when they're not absolutely "needed" (with that line of thinking you'd also drop warrior tank from Brutallus raid because it's better tanked by two ferals).

But if you aren't taking rets and prots because you're prejudiced (or encounter-specific optimizations demand it), you still want three blessing and you sure as hell don't want three holies (and would rather not have two, because holy+tree is better), hence you buff outside.

>>378444604
That's how it was even on retail in Wrath, and I was on one of the most crowded servers.

I think that was WoW's biggest mistake, the expansions were too separated from the old stuff.

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Would you play a Skyrim-WoW?
With mods included.

TBC was better lol

>>378444816
I'm not sure
nobody wants to keep doing the old stuff forever

>>378444008
>joined Lordaeron when it first opened
>pulled all nighters just leveling and enjoying all the vanilla zones again but with wrath talents
>people fucking everywhere
>get to 60 and pvp, put together the grand marshals set along with the Claymore like i was never able to do back in retail vanilla
>tbc about to launch, team up with all the Alliance including Expert and take control of the dark portal
>for some reason get super bored about halfway to 70 and stop playing

I would love to get back into this server but I feel I'm too late. Just knowing that doing the Argent Tournament stuff would take months and months of dailies and the server would be even more dead by the time I'm done is just so off putting.

>>378444875
Why

>>378444008
>Warmanes TBC just launched
>they make a gigantic fake queue that makes it take upwards of 5-6 hours to get in
>everyone knows its a fake queue
>Warmane sells $10 queue pass
>everyone buys it
Private servers are for the most retarded of retards

>>378445180
It's nice to see people running around in the the old stuff though. And there was still plenty of shit like tailors having to go to Moonwells to make cloth (at least for Horde, they didn't have any just in their towns so you actually had to go out to Ashenvale or Felwood usually) or some good higher end recipes still needing mid-level shit like Ghost Mushrooms and Golden Pearls. With TBC onwards everyone at max level is fucked off through a loading screen 99% of the time unless they're doing Caverns of Time.

I guess it's kind of connected to the flying mount dilemma too.

>>378444850
The quests / content in a Skyrim-WoW would be the same if not worse than what's already present in WoW. This sounds nice but when you think about it, the only real appeal would be mods. Especially sexlab mods that would let me enslave Sylvanas.

>>378444850

azeroth with mods? I'm in

So we all agree the Iron Horde was the worst villain in WoW's history despite having the strongest start?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgjkm55pBeQ
>tfw didn't have a sub at the time

>>378444765

You sound knowledgeable so I'll take your word for it since, like I stated earlier, I haven't even see the inside of Kara, despite staying for the whole duration of expansion.

>If ret is a DPS boost for the raid on pure DPS encounter then it's a boost on other encounters as well

He was a DPS race and I believe the other issue with Ret was going oom and drastically gimping their dps, so perhaps it wasn't such an issue on this fight... ? Didn't it only take 3 minutes before his enrage?

>>378445875
Even True Horde was better than Iron Horde, at least they put bunch of trolls in sticks, when Iron Horde were pretty much cannon fodder and even Draenei were slapping their shit

>>378446008
I never understood the immense butthurt this caused.

>>378446029
Brutallus enrage is 6 minutes.

>>378445875
everything in wod was a joke
it could have been so fucking amazing if they just finished it
but yeah the start was great
especially the cinetmatic
>EVERRRYYTHING

>>378437632
Arena was fucking shit. There were fucking wizards everywhere.

>>378446029
>so perhaps it wasn't such an issue on this fight... ?
That's generally the idea. Elemental Shamans were kind of the same way, they could shit out crazy damage but then they'd be OOM. Fun in PVP or if you're super overgeared though.
On one Vanilla server I played for a while they actually kept track of fastest boss kills so people were doing crazy shit like killing Chromaggus in ~90 seconds.

>>378437632
>that soundtrack
comfy as fuck
dragonblight was a favorite zone of mine

>>378445875
Illidan & co, whos status as villains was so incomprehensible that they got retconned into being good guys when it became convenient

>>378446519
>illidan was actually fighting the burning legion when we stupidly attacked the black temple and he was merely holding us off while the other demon hunters escaped
blizzard really stretched it to make illidan a good guy

>>378446350
Well, that's vanilla problem. With Unrelenting Storm talent (10% of int as mp5) and actual ele itemization, mana isn't really a problem in TBC. You can't sustainably keep using chain lightning on single target rotation without a shadow priest, but there's a good chance you'll have one.

>>378438957
This is where i dropped WoW, so yeah
Good post

>>378446519
This absolutely tops the iron horde but it gets downplayed because of how well love Burning Crusade is.

>>378440352
>only way to find a group was by talking in zone chat
>get a group of people together
>3 of them are 10 mins walking distance away
>wait 20-30 mins to get everyone at the start of the dungeon
>healer or tank fails to do his job
>group collapses
>no time to do the dungeon now, better try another day

Tell me anon, what patch made you quit WoW for good?
For me it was the ZG/ZA remake, the heavy nerf to heroics and the absolute horrific laziness of the ZA remake really killed it for me, especially since this was suppose to be our new content till firelands.

>>378438957
>log on
>"fuck I'm bored there's nothing to do"
>[Arrthaassx]: did u do ur dailies
>log off

>>378440352
What about it? Even if you look at just Illidan, you need 2 tanks for Flames of Azzinoth besides main tank and feral is ideally suited for those. And if you look beyond Illidan, you want one of each tank class in the guild witch each of them having distinct strengths and weaknesses, that's as good balance as it gets.

Conversely, precisely because tanks in WotLK do largely the same thing largely the same way, some of them get shafted (like prot warriors and DKs in ICC, with warrior tanks for example being flat-out inferior to paladins in everything but Lich King offtanking, and more so for Safeguard talent allowing you to reduce damage from Soul Reaper rather than the way they act as a tank).

Whats a good profession for a warlock if I were to "RP" one?

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>>378442973
>twins

>>378448436
Alchemy/Herb
Experimenting on things so you don't poison yourself

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>"Welfare epics"
>Members of progressive raiding guilds are expected to have them for new raids
When will this horrible/elitist meme end?

Should I resub and RP. A dwarf warrior? Haven't played since MoP and deleted all my chars to avoid temptation. Thoughts?

>>378444850
>skyrim with mods
as long as I can disable the horse cock futa draenei im down

>>378448923
>should I resub
The answer is always no.
WoW is not nearly as good as it used to be in any way, and you don't need to be spending money on it.

>>378449130
It'll be singleplayer WoW-Skyrim with mods, only if you install them friend.

>>378448923
Artifact power added an entirely new tier of bullshit to the game. People were getting kicked out of LFR groups because their AP total was too low. People went along with it, because they didn't want to be targeted themselves. I became sick of grinding the same horrible dungeons for something that only had a minimal chance to proc. Yet required a nearly endless grind for the passive stat boost.

>>378448775
was alchemy any good in vanilla? I never ever used it

>>378449510
Yep, you made shit loads of money during AQ and a shitload even before that

>>378449510
having fun going to scholomance to make flasks fuckboy

>>378449434
Don't forget the new endless grind for Nethershards aka Apexis 2.0

>>378448923
>deleted all my chars to avoid temptation
Even more of a no than it already was. You're going to hate yourself for having to level without heirloom gear. It'll just be you running behind the rest of the group, doing nothing while they one-shot everything until you hit current content.

>>378442973
I was never a 25-man raider, but I got invited to help off-tank this a few times.

I think we made it past the first boss maybe once.

Loved doing dailies out there, though. That was ultra comfy, and I got the White Hawkstrider as an Alliance, which felt pretty cool from the 5-man.

I'd just hang out there and chill and do RP stuff from time to time. I got my Nightbane shield (never could get Gruul's) right as the introduced the vendor for the epic Sunwell shield, which was pretty much the same stats as Nightbane.

>>378438532
BC was the start of welfare epics.

Arena weapons and then later badge gear was straight up welfare, then ZA got released

>>378450189
No doubt sunwell isle was a great quest hub and i personally loved MT.
But seriously sunwell was just fucking awful and i am a firm believer anyone who looks back fondly on it never really did it.
Sunwell may have been the reason wraths 1st tier was so insanely easy because nobody besides the very hardcore could even touch sunwell and the very hardcore fucking hated it.

>>378438957
Instantly dropped the game when this patch came and never looked back. I was right.

>>378450821
Atleast the BC welfare epics weren't complete.

You could not be 100% epic geared just from welfare.

Unless you're counting expired arena season gear, in which case, yes you could have a full outdated set of PvP armor.

>>378443912
>cataclysm azeroth
fucking dropped

>>378450821
Catchup gear is good for the health of the game for everyone involved (high-end guilds gain a larger pool of possible recruits that can kinda carry their weight, new players with sufficient dedication can get to the point where they are worth trialling for more advanced guilds instead of being stuck with garbage guilds that are too shit to progress, and ultimately the game needs the casual players as well for keeping the cogs of economy running and world lively, and they need some carrots every once in a while).

There's several pre-requisites, though:
1. It must not be good enough to obsolete any content
2. It must not be handed out "for free"

TBC passes the both checks. In the first case it activated low-end content if anything (Karazhan in particular) and seeing as that even the most nerfed heroics were respectable and PvP gear is, well, PvP-gear, the second condition is achieved as well. And anyway, ultimately it's not much different from AV exalted rewards, craftables like Bloodvine set, blue ranked PvP gear (not too difficult to get for anyone), "of the frozen wrath" BiS items being available in AH, buffed 5-man dungeon loots, ZG/AQ20 loot or whatever.

And even supposing "welfare gear" thing started in TBC, it's present in WotLK in a completely different capacity, both in terms of power, the ease of getting it, and the impact on raid progression.

>>378442297
Yeah but rogues are the ultimate shitter class and anybody who plays them seriously deserves this to happen to them every time

>>378437790
Cross-server killed the communities. and dungeon queing/remote queing killed exploration/scope of the world.

These are just two things that came "After vanilla" that made vanilla better in a way that would never be fixed/replaced.

So how useful was druids,especially ferals on vanilla?

>>378437790
BC dungeons/heroics were definitely the best. Wrath Heroics were too easy.

I would say WoW vanilla is the best just because no Resilience

>>378451759
I wasn't arguing that WOTLK made welfare worse, i'm arguing that there was a much higher bar in BC.

There was no 10 man or heroic versions for the raids. If your guild wasn't good enough to get into SSC/TK, you simply weren't good enough to get the best loot.

Then, Badges of Justice start dropping from heroics and Kara, and now low effort players could get the equivlent of 25-man raid gear (and in some cases, it was better)

In WOTLK, it was catch up gear.

In BC, it was "I was never going to earn nor do I deserve it, but Kara drops badges now"

>>378439242
>new storyline
>gorgeous foreign land
>best raids
>tightest gameplay
The whole "kung fu panda xD" argument made so many retards miss out on WoW's true golden age. They managed to reinstall this sense of wonder that you felt the first time you explored WoW.
>"but I want more orcs and demons and other rehashed concepts"
Too bad Blizzard listened.

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Where were you when Daelin was proved right?

>>378453697
t. camp taurajo terrorist

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>>378453697
remember when orcs dindu nuffin and the bloodlust was all mannoroth's fault

and then wod happened and proved they were still warmongers without the fel and still attempted to invade a different planet even though they were getting their asses kicked in their own planet?

good times

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>>378453779
They were given a warning.


What's with this ''t. '' thing? I've seen it around and haven't gotten to understand it.

>>378454226
It's Finnish for "regards", like how you might sign a letter or something

>>378437632
Wrath was the beginning of the end

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>>378454281
Thanks, have an elf butt.

>>378437632
>after Ulduar
no
ToC and afterwards was the beginning of the end, when every patch that came out literally made the previous tier useless, when they decided they should just pump up numbers for higher difficulties instead of Ulduar-style original hard modes, queues, overfocus on dailies, and all the miscellaneous cancer that ruined wow

it's definitely better than today's memeforging though i'll give you that

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If you could update a raid to legion quality or a specific boss, which would you choose and why?

I'd want a Naxx buff.

>>378454092
To be honest, WoD was a mistake. Should've just had Garrosh die at the end of SoO and started the Legion invasion.

>>378454867
can you imagine how bastardized naxx would be after getting rehashed twice

whew

>>378454867
>Naxx for the 3rd time
Jesus Christ why.
Personally, I would've said Karazhan, but they already did that in dungeon format. Still would've preferred the raid though.

>>378454967
Well, maybe they could remove some more mechanics and make some of the numbers even lower than they were in Naxx40.

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>>378437632
objectively no

Throne of Thunder was

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Corecraft when boys?

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>>378454867
AQ40. Why?

MC
>Rehashed for the aniversary
BWL
>Used in cata, not really rehashed but still
Naxx
>Rehashed
ZG
>Rehashed as a dungeon

AQ20 and AQ40 are the only pure vanilla ones left. And i'd love to see updated Twin Emps/C'thun fights.

>>378442847

Faggots like you ruined wow

fuck you

>>378453624
>new storyline
Which was shit and didn't make sense.
>gorgeous foreign land
Ditto.
>best raids
Aesthetically, I will give you Endless Springs and Mogu'shan. Heart of Fear was shit, ToT had no earthly business existing and Siege lasted far, FAR too long.
>tightest gameplay
Wrath and Cata were gameplay peaks, and even then you had the introduction of bullshit gimmicks like zone phasing and vehicle combat thrown into it.

The Kung Fu Panda argument was stupid, but most people were wondering why an easter egg warranted an entire expansion.

>>378454867
Leave them as is. Buffing the raids to make level divides players because you render old content obsolete, which is why private servers are becoming more and more popular.

The ONLY good example of where an raid/dungeon has been buffed was Karazhan, and that's because they kept the old raid in tact.

Look at what happened to Scholomance and Scarlet Monastery. I don't see how it would be unreasonable to make the normal mode of a dungeon the original, and the heroic version the new one.

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>Retail cucks will never know this feel

>>378453624
>>378455710
y'all forgetting the RPG aspects.

Reagents and the need for potions and more.

>>378456070
Actually if you played Retail during Vanilla, you knew that feel

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>Have every reason to join Alliance
>Get to be around other elves, clean cities, sanitation, nice clothes, education
>Join the Horde
>Stuck in horde war camps surrounded by dungheaps, mudhuts, ugly beasts and smelly tauren

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MoP was objectively the best raiding experience. If you say otherwise you have no taste.

>>378442091

Exactly, it was balanced because every class was OP.
Name me 1 class that was bad in vanilla. You can't.

>>378456165
Hardly, seeing as that the population was several times higher than even the largest retail vanilla servers.

>>378456239
>Buddy up with the Alt-Scourge simply because Sylvanas is their leader
>Start using Fel magic simply because your Leyline got fucked up

Belfs were dumb as shit.

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>>378456070

Lmfao look at the fucking chat log!

>LF1M tank for RFD
>LF1M tank for UD strat
>LF1M tank for Strat live
>LF1M tank for BFD
>LF1M tank for RFK

literally constant spam of people looking for tanks. Looks like J. Allen Brack was right after all. DO you really wanna sit there spamming "LF tank" or just click a button and wait for the queue?

>>378445384
>fake queue

Explain? Genuinely curious.

https://www.burning-crusade.com/
One week until open beta friends. Time to relive those moments.

Was the pvp ever actually fun or worthwhile?
t. pve lore shitter

>>378456597
Been playing on elysium for quite a few months now. Just reached level 55

Never once been in a group longer than 20 minutes looking for a class.

>>378456070

>all those buttons on the screen

I kinda miss this. They're trying to turn WoW into a moba now where everyone only has 5 buttons. Just wait till the next expansion, that's how it will be.

>>378456239
>Have every reason to join Alliance
Never played Warcraft 3 then I see.
They shouldn't have joined the Horde either, but there is slightly more of a reason to over the Alliance.

>>378456629

Warmane is literally a joke server.
They fill their server with bots to create an illusion of a "full" server. They then make a huge queue so you have to wait 3 hours just to get in.
They then charge $10 for a queue skip pass, and everyone pays it like a moron.

On top of this, Warmane:
>Doesn't have any rules against botting.
>Doesn't have any rule against multi-boxing.
>Will have a cash-shop in the future

Don't fuckin play Warmane. If you want to play a Private server, go play on Elysium because they aren't money grubbing jews, and they actually ban botters/multiboxers

>>378457000
I agree with all of this except for

>money grubbing jews

They took money from chinese gold sellers and banned anyone who bad talked the chinese.

>>378443057
1 ret could be useful, by keeping up 3 judgments and a small group damage buff, but you could easily live without that

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>>378437632
>flying mounts still exist
>naxx rehash that was dumbed down so you could do it in on 25 in leveling greens
>free gear for shitters who can't catch up
>end of attunements (none of them were hard or time consuming you fucking babies)
>Toc
>no ajzol nerub
>icc was a fucking joke besides putricide and lich king
>most classes playstyle still boring as fuck
>most bosses in most raids being tank and spank with 1 mechanic for ranged to dodge
>worst raids besides ulduar
>shit leveling content outside of icc and starting zones
>borring class mechanics
>furthering the single player game play mindset with easy content
wrath was easily the worst expansion, and the expansion which heralded all the other shit tier changes to wow that were made. your opinions are both wrong and dumb.

>>378437632
You're right, anon.

>>378454867
If it's done like they did Karazhan in 7.1 I'd like to see it done with Ulduar. Ulduar was already used a little bit in Legion for the Warrior campaign.

>>378455710
How did the story not make sense to you?
As for the aesthetics, well, if you didn't like them there's not much I can say about them - I enjoyed them because they look like ancient Chinese paintings.
SoO dragged on for much too long, I'll give you that. I got so sick of it.

>>378456239
i'm glad garithos condemned you filthy elffags and waifufags in the containment faction

t. alliancefag

>>378457387
I agree with all aside from class mechanics.

>>378456654
Season 6 and 7 were arguably the most balanced WoW has been in terms of pvp. Too bad every private server is S8 only with Shadowmournes and overpowered caster comps dominating.

>>378437632
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2IvDjY3CtQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCr7y4SLhck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch4rc5W4dKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY3oZH6Piz4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAIrj_Vqdfc

G O A T

>>378457492
when comparing them to tbc or vanilla, they are interesting and fun mechanics, but after playing the more actiony versions (mop wod legion) its really hard to go back to 1 second gcds and no movement,and have fun

>>378457000

Huh... I see. Well thanks for saving me some time and effort anon. Guess I'll wait for whatever the fuck >>378456645 posted and see if it's legitimate.

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>>378457387
Best part about that image is that Khadgar does it again asking for 2500 Nethershards.
He then gives you back 2499 of them.

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I honestly wish Blizz would take a Jagex approach to legacy servers.

Look at Old School RuneScape.
>inb4 "lol RuneScape" memes
The legacy servers for RuneScape are growing in popularity and is equal to, if not at times greater than, the population of the current servers.

Just sit down, decide which patch was 'peak', and work on/release a stable version of it. Then after some time work towards releasing updates for it that deviate from how things went for live servers, just like the Old School RuneScape servers.

It'd be neat to see what progress could be made while knowing their previous mistakes. Try to stay closer to what made things popular to begin with. Maybe even try the poll thing RuneScape has.

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>>378458219
>blizzard ever releasing legacy servers while 10+ million people are still willing to buy expansions every 2 years
look at this man, look at him and laugh

Arthas was the best warcraft vilain so there is that.

>>378458353
but arthas literally did nothing wrong while he was still a human.

>>378458219
Blizzard is too proud to admit their mistakes, that's why they sunk D2, SC2 and are sinking WoW with stupid decisions that everyone who plays their games seriously, the community in general, "pros", people who manage fansites, etc..., warned them about.

WoW engine is so old
It really struggles to keep up

>>378458353
>vilain
>both Arthas and Arth'zhul were the only rightful characters and the scourge the only rightful faction

>>378458423

WoW community is retarded and is the main reason for what happened to this game

>>378458420
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY3oZH6Piz4
>0:40
>all those people that he killed

>>378458420
>going after mal'ganis
>picking up frostmourne

>>378458549
>abloo abloo he killed all of stratholm abloo abloo
>muh lights abloo
fuck off retard, what are you going to do let a whole city be turned in to undead and stolen by a faggot with wings, suck a fatty.

>>378437632
Another nostalgia thread

sage goes in all fields

>>378457470
Well for starters, Pandaria shouldn't exist. Pandaren however do exist, but their home is the Wandering Isle, and not some lost continent that "even the Titans map projections in Ulduar got wrong ;^)". Naturally with this glaring inconsistency thrown into the foreground, everything that stems from it doesn't make sense because it has no means of being there.

Outside of Pandaria, you do have some other little fuck ups.
>How did Gandling survive a third time to kickstart Scholomance again?
>Why was it that only 4 of the original bosses of Scholomance were alive, 1 of which wasn't even a boss anymore and now just a quest giver?
>Why has Mary Sue Lillian Voss the crux of these revamped story lines?
>How has Sally Whitemane managed to survive the original Scarlet Monastary?
>How, even after Balnazzar purged them all and turned them into the Risen, did the Scarlet Crusade manage to bolster the monastery?
>Who the fuck are all the new bosses and why are they literally reskins (even using the same voices) as the old bosses?
>If, according to patch 4.1, the Drakkari and Sandfury troll empires are dead, how do they have soldiers and leaders inside the Throne of Thunder?
>Likewise why is Blizzard still carrying on this stupid "muh trolls muh evil Zandalari" storyline?
>Why are the Zandalari now gray skinned and less troll like?

>>378458312
>>378458423

Jagex was the same way for a long time, even releasing a ton of microtransactions and literal pay2win to keep themselves afloat.

Then a popular private server made them reconsider things.

Just hopeful, I suppose, but then again they do have other games to keep themselves afloat while they milk out WoW.

>>378438640
I play on true wow
it is actually really good but the population has always just been in the mid-low hundreds

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>>378458538
>rose steadily through classic and TBC
>started leaving in droves when WotLK passed its peak and all through Cataclysm, MoP and WoD
>Legion launch had a peak but WoW is probably at or bellow WoD levels at this point
>community is retarded

you mistake community for loud minority

>>378457648
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAIrj_Vqdfc [Embed]
I'm still mad.

>>378458730
jagoff is a joke tier company that isn't anywhere close to as massive as blizzard or will they ever be because their game was shit, it has nothing to do with them being the same way retard.

>>378458608
>retrieving a powerful artifact
>KILLING and I mean actually KILLING a powerful,dangerous and immortal demon lord

literally
nothing
wrong

>>378437632
no it wasn't

>>378458695
The titan map was wrong in a few cases, the old ones tampered with it.

>>378458818
undead arthas did more harm than mal'ganis could ever hope to

prove me wrong

>>378458818
>>KILLING and I mean actually KILLING a powerful,dangerous and immortal demon lord
does the name Barean Westwind say anything to you?

>>378458795

>this upset

>>378458608
I dont think going after malganis was wrong
frostmourne was a bad idea though

>>378458895
That's when he lost he died and lost his soul while wandering around northrend, he wasn't in control of his will anymore.

>>378459012
>does the name Barean Westwind say anything to you?

No

>>378459191
malganis is still alive and was leading the scarlet onslaught campaign in northrend

>>378459089
he lost his soul when he grabbed frostmourne
it was ner'zhul who told him to kill mal'ganis, much to mal'ganis's surprise

>>378459307
Didn't he survive or some shit? In which case, is this another storyline that went nowhere, like Ozumat/Neptulon?

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>>378458219
Want to play vanilla officially? here.

>>378459420
Yea
he showed up on the broken shore scenario right at the end when guldan called his homies

>>378457714

It IS legitimate, I've been following that project. It's a hand-built server (no copy pasta code like Warmane) and is also free from all cash-grab bullshit. I'm excited to try it out when it releases in July.

>>378459558
jesus christ
this "demons can only die in the nether" bullshit is just an asspull so they can keep milking nostalgia

>>378459802
This is why Illidan has survived twice now.
Undying demons and neverending old god corruptions is what's going to keep this game going for years.

>>378459987
I'm pretty sure that the next xpac is either going to be naga/oldgod stuff or we'll go to another planet for oldgod stuff
I don't see where it could go from there

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>>378444008
>Lots of people from the balkans who are surprisingly friendly aslong as you make them believe they're the only Balkan folks you hang with.
don't know man, out of nowhere 2 people gifted me 10 of gold for the equitation and mount, was suprised, it even last for 2 of my friends playing the server.

>>378459802
I'de rather have consistent evils instead of a random big bad popping out of nowhere.

>>378461076
You have all the south seas left to work with regards to a Naga expansion.

Shame we have had Naga thrown at us more or less every expansion. I can't imagine how they could make them interesting or unique without repeating what's already been done.

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>>378438957
This was the patch that made me drop the game and hop over to Aion at launch.

If only Aion did well enough to not get development gutted by NCsoft, I still cry to this trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PAM0wr7cZ8

>>378459526

I've already played that, and vanilla, and a bit of Nost before it was KO'd.

I'm just wishing for a server that'd continue its legacy content in a way that differed from how it continued to today.

i really enjoyed legion, what's wrong with everyone having a super cool weapon? you're all so elitist, fuck off with your nostalgia (that's all it is)

>>378461898
this is poor bait at least try next time

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Where did it all go?

>>378453697
Jaina was basically an SJW liberal
...He tried to warn us

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>>378462704

HUH

>>378462301
wtf is your problem?

>>378458695
I thought you meant Pandaria's story, not the revamped dungeons'.
I don't have an answer to most of these, I admit that they went in a weird direction with the revamps..
As for the trolls, if their empires are dead, that doesn't mean they were wiped from the surface of Azeroth. They still exist in small groups, they're just not the huge ruling force they once were.

>>378462704
You can still get a red leather mask from pickpocketing mobs in Draenor and you can acquire the blackened Defias armor by doing a quest in the Deadmines.

>>378458695
As far as I remember, Pandaren from the Wandering Isle aren't aware of Pandaria's exsitence, which would why it wasn't mentioned.

>>378442973
The reason for that is because it wasn't meant to be played by everyone, only for the most dedicated.

>>378463039
wow....... great.

>>378442973
>wah wah it was hard!
lol

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>>378463039
rly maeksu tink

>>378442973
>>378463424
M'uru was legitimately the hardest boss ever made in WoW.

Pre-Nerf c'thun doesn't count.

>>378463753
i one shotted m'uru with only BT gear lol

>>378462929
>As for the trolls, if their empires are dead, that doesn't mean they were wiped from the surface of Azeroth.
I can sort of buy this, but it's the lead up that always boggles me.

Patch 4.1 is the patch EVERYONE forgets when it comes to critizing the lore changes in Cataclysm and I feel like I'm the only person who've noticed how stupid it is.

>Trolls are not unified empires anymore;even amongst sub species, they don't get along aka Stranglethorn Vale
>Zandalar Trolls prior to Cataclysm were neutral, only mingling on the main land when something bad was happening, normally involving some other Trolls
>first started in vanilla with Zul'Gurub. The Zandalari thought the Gurubashi were summoning Hakkar in the Sunken Temple, but were wrong. When they realized it was ZG, they sent adventurers to stop the ritual and kill Hakkar
>fast forward to Wrath, the Drakkari have begun killing their animal gods to gain powers in order to stop the Scourge
>this angers the Zandalari who likewise send adventurers into Gun'drak to kill the Drakkari leaders

Now fastforward to patch 4.1 and you suddenly have "we are a dying race we need to unify. Gurubashi and Amani, even though your leaders and gods are dead (our mistake Gurubashi xD) why don't you side with us? Oh and ignore Zul'Farrak and Gun'drak, they don't exist anymore"

I honestly thought Blizzard had forgotten about this stupid shit until Mists came out and they started forcing it down our throats again.

>>378438957
pretty much this

I stopped giving a fuck and just made some shitty 60 level "twinks" that got boosted through old raids and I ran AV 8 hours a day until I got completly burned out

>>378450821
You would not be accepted into a serious raiding guild if you used PvP gear in PvE. ZA was not welfare. You actually had to try. It was way harder than kara and the last 2 bosses were harder than T5 minus kael and Vash. The last 2 were harder than most of T6 since T6 was a pretty easy tier.

Giving the horde paladins and the alliance shamans was the beginning of the end

I am butthurt about that to this day and the lore around those two classes got even worse as time went on

>>378463451
fuck off jojo you autistic nigger

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>>378463921
>We never got the Gundrak raid
>But we did get Trial of the Shitter
I'm still mad.

>>378466635
I half agree. Draenei should've never gotten Shaman, having magical space goats being in tune with the elements makes very little sense, especially since they're more sci-fi and techy with their actual space ships.
They should've given Shaman to Dwarf in BC if anything, since Dwarves are pretty in tune with the earth and fire.

Blood Elves having Paladins makes sense because the entire race is so suffused with magic they can't not magic. (Rogues using energy and Hunters later using focus kinda break this, but meh)
I do hate that they gave Blood Elves Warrior later though, that literally makes no sense.

>quality doesn't mean shit, used to be that a green of X ilevel had a lower stat budget than a blue of the same ilevel than an epic of the same ilvl
>each tier of raiding since TotC has made all the previous ones obsolete due to insane power creep
>crafting gear is nowadays either way too costly on a time/investment plan or patterns for pre-raiding gear drops from raiding content
>warforging/titanforging is a thing
>the whole YOU CAN ONLY USE LEATHER ON LEATHER CLASSES PLATE ON PLATE CLASSES etc... bullshit
>they keep adding/removing stats between expansions, all the secondaries of WoD were memed out of existence but versatility is a thing
>power creep between expansions is too big since Cata, early T4 cleans were done in T3, early Naxx25 clears were done in T6/SW gear, etc...
>ilvl is favored over stats in 99% of situations making gearing up brainless and at the same time frustrating because a straight output upgrade can and will fuck up your playstyle

>>378458695
Pandaria was originally an april fools joke. Blizzard was just sucking Chinese dick when they decided to make a Pandaland expansion, because subs everywhere else were already declining.

>>378466919
My issue with horde paladins is that they were a very specific thing in WoW lore, then this was handwaved away with evil 'paladins' stealing light power from magical light aliens and over time the class went from what it was in WC2/3 to the most iconic human class with some jedi tier exclusive order shit to basically being some fighter with heals and some retarded lore excuse for that race to have them

>>378463886
lol!

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>>378438957
yup that raid fucking sucked.. dailies grind was fucking stupid. quit here aswell

>>378467254
There wasn't any other choice from a gameplay perspective to give Blood Elves a plate class.
Warrior didn't (and still doesn't) make sense given how driven by magic they are, and DK hadn't come out yet.

Plus, Blood Elves have always had the connection to the Sunwell, which can pretty easily explain their connection to the Light.

>>378467489
What he isn't telling us is he did it after the 20% across the board hp nerf went through in the pre-WolK patch.

>>378466919
Now we even got Tauren paladins.
If they really wanted a second Horde pally race, they should've gone with the Forsaken seeking redemption (since in-game they are all undead humans, they might've been paladins in their previous lives).
It'd make much more sense than the nomadic, shamanistic race being paladins, at least.

>>378467254
TBC handled it pretty well to be fair. Races were bound to different paladin orders and so had different skills. The only issue here was balance, because blood elf's seal of blood was far better than the alliance equivalent.

It begs the question why stuff like this was removed yet racials were kept in.

>>378467851
No, it fucking wouldn't. That makes close to zero sense. Zero with the Ashbringer.

>>378467851
Yea, I really hate Tauren suddenly being Paladins and Priests and connecting to the Light by calling the Sun the Light.
The entire point of their lore is that the Sun and Moon are the foci for their Druids (and the Druid arcane and nature magic), and nothing to do with the actual Light.

And I kinda agree with Forsaken being Paladins. They can already be Holy Priests, so they still have a connection to the Light even when undead.
In fact, it'd even more be redemption style because thematically channeling holy magic as a Forsaken (as the priests do) causes them intense pain, yet they endure it and use that magic anyway.

Pre-LFG Wrath was the peak and it's been on a decline ever since. Fuck TBC, levelling through those shitty zones nearly sent me into a coma.

>>378457492
hope you like maintenance buffs, go play LoL if you enjoy ghostcrawler's shit redesigns

TBC was the beginning of the end:
>Began the trend of unrepentantly sucking Druid dicks and just blatantly bending the rules for them (instant cast flight form that you can interact with gathering nodes with, massive scaling with bonus armor rings/trinkets)
>Ruined the Horde/Alliance split and fucked the Horde's aesthetics for the sake of marketing a purdy race out
>Ruined the PvP meta with RNG stun city, resilience and arenas, setting the stage for 10,000 years of RMP

WoTLK then added the casualization factor that would go on to spiral into the worst aspects of the game, as well as set the standard for cutting massive hunks of content out of your expansion plan and just shrugging it off. The story was also pretty subpar post-Ulduar.

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>>378467563
>powered through late wotlk and Cata, skipping on all the daily quests related content
>MoP comes out
>99% of the content is gated behind dailies
>quit at 5.1 after clearing the first raid
>skip WOD
>come back for legion
>now 100% of the content IS daily quests
>quit again with no intention of playing again

Blizzard managed to do what I never could, make me stop WoW permanently.

What a bunch of losers.

>>378457492
>Managed to ruin ALL THREE Hunter specs
>Managed to ruin ALL THREE Warlock specs
>Managed to continue to make any spec of Rogue useless after nerfing dice and making YET ANOTHER leather megahybrid that does everything they do but flashier
>Hybrid tax turned to hybrid privilege, uhhh who has time to switch gear and go to the capital to respec

Legion was the final nail in the coffin for pure-DPS classes. Might as well have made everyone a hybrid.

>>378468650
>Began the trend of unrepentantly sucking Druid dicks
Feral dps was shit and balance wasn't good until they got their tier set bonuses.

>>378468874
I bet we'll eventually get shit like
Fire Mage Healer (cauterizing), Frost Mage Tank
Affliction Lock is Healer/DPS like Disc Priest, Demo Lock is Tank
Outlaw Rogues become dodge Tank, Sub Rogues get to heal with poisons
Paladin gets 4th spec - spell caster DPS (desu I've wanted this ever since Druids have 4 specs and no other class)
DK get to heal others with plagues
etc etc

>>378437632
Wrath sucked ass
>brain dead 5 mans
>brain dead raids
>shit pvp
>horrible world
>fucking dalaran as hub
>the spastic titan plot
>wasting LK on muh daddy issues

Vanilla > everything else

>>378437632
I agree. Vanilla fags can suck it.

>>378466391
ZA had no challenge for any serious guild except for the time constraints.

Badge gear was equal to or better than T6 gear.

>>378469190
Honestly at this point classes with 3 DPS specs are just at a straight disadvantage so you might as well go full-Guild Wars 2 and give them all at least a secondary role.

Mages get Chronomancy/Runic Healing applied to Arcane

Warlocks get that Demo tank spec they always wanted

Evasion tank Rogue is the obvious choice but we have T H R E E L E A T H E R T A N K S so Bonesaw Healer with tons of wacky brews could be neat.

Nu-Survival Hunters already are just ripping off shittier versions of old Warrior skills so make them tanks I guess

>>378442091
>mages infinitely kiting warriors

yeah, I don't miss that shit at all
if a frost mage attacked me I'd just /sit because there was nothing I could do since I wasn't engineer
glad we atleast got spell reflect in BC