It's time to admit this wasn't that good, and apart

>>378219912
It was the best swords & magic FPS when it released.
You may not like it because it aged pretty bad but it had its time.

wew lad

>>378219912
It was never THAT good and it being actually good is just a /v/'s opinion

>>378219912
the exploration rewarding systems
the bosses
the linear styled rpg that worked perfectly
the flexible skill system
etc etc
what you on

>>378219912
>all the Skyrim games
nice bait made me reply

Combat is shit. The game feels like a glorified Half Life 2 mod. I dropped it after 30 mins because the scripted castle scene and the initial combat was terrible.

Arkane is one of the most overrated developers around, their games are filled with mediocrity.

Dark Messiah has better:

>Better combat
>Better story
>Better characters
>Better level design
>Better talent system
>Better traps
>Better crafting
>Better spells
>Better spell casting
>Better UI
>Better stealth
>Better varied locations
>Better sword fights
>Better interactive environments
>Better boss battles
>Better items with interesting properties/stats
>Better enemy AI
>Better enemy mechanics
>Better platforming
>Better secret areas
>Better puzzles

You're trolling. Nobody non-retarded thinks Skyrim comes close to how good Dark Messiah is.

time to agree it's summer already

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>>378219912
>that all the Skyrim games have.

>>378219912
>>378221504
That's like saying Deus Ex had shit combat.

Neither are combat focused games per se. They're all about open-ended gameplay. They throw various situations at you and then you can stealth your way through, brute force it, or find an alternate path. Dark Messiah had a whole physics schtick though.

>>378222086
>Dark Messiah is Deus Ex now
I played DM and it seemed more like a tech demo really. I didn't really get the impression it was anywhere near Deus Ex, in fact the game just made me go through a heavily scripted sequence in the castle when it gets attacked. The brief combat before that was terrible. This game doesn't have shit on something like Severance Blade of Darkness and certainly is no Deus Ex.

OP is baiting but i'm saying this game is hardly impressive at all. I'll repeat that the Arkane logo is the mark of mediocrity, Dishonored was also incredibly mediocre outside of level design, I did finish that game though, but DM couldn't really keep me interested at all.

>>378221504
>>378222357
Arkane is actually trying and doing things other developers don't even think about, and that's why I support them. That they're not as good as they could be, yeah. But absolutely no one else is even attempting to do immersive sims. Most people and most devs don't even know what those are to begin with. At least now, yeah, we have Otherside, which is very much Looking Glass reformed, Nightdive is working on the remake of SS1, but who else? Exactly.

>>378219912
true the combat is basically the same as skyrim but the execution is so much better
it's not a perfect game, far from it but is pretty fun
just think of it as medieval HL2
>>378221558
It's always summer here
>>378222086
DM is combat focused, more specifically melee

>>378219912
BUT I WOULD WALK FIVE HUNDRED MILES AND I WOULD WALK FIVE HUNDRED MORE

>>378222548
So they're trying and not doing great, so what? It's not like Shock games have stopped being made entirely. Bioshock games were still recent, despite being casualized, other genres such as spacesims have got much worse than System Shock style games, which is getting a remake of the 1st and System Shock 3 while space sims have dropped fucking dead. I don't see why I need to not call it what I see when it comes to Arkane.

I don't see why I have to be nice to them because someone in there cleaned the toilets of Looking Glass/Ion Storm

>>378223080
>Bioshock games were still recent
And they're almost nothing like System Shock in the important ways that actually matter. BS1 was casual console garbage saved only because "muh deep story", what should matter is the gameplay elements, and those were light and there was little options, no fucking inventory system, and they just recycled certain plot cues from SS2. Hell, Dead Space 1 is a better Shock game than Bioshock, DS doesn't even have any skill systems, nonlinear level design and multiple ways to play the game and solve problems.

Moreover, a lot of the shit Dishonored gets shit on for is also in Deus Ex, yet I don't hear anyone complaining about that one in the same breath.

And if I hear one more "but Prey 2" fucking faggot

>>378219912
what arkane needs to do is follow this up with a spritual successor thats similar to this, sort of like Des/Das1 kinda situation to avoid all the legalities with Ubishit and make a better deserving sequal with everything ironed out

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>>378219912
>the exact same shoddy FPS melee combat that all the Skyrim games have
No, actually. Power attacks in TES games lock you in place for the duration of the animation, limiting your mobility and strategies. In Dark Messiah you can still move during power attacks and even cancel/transition them into other moves.

The more you know.

>>378223513
Bioshock games are still considered the spiritual successor to SS2, also made by the same devs of SS2. Other genres and games have gotten much worse than Shock-likes, that's my point. Also Dead Space is terrible, it was an okay monster closed simulator I guess, but has zero atmosphere thanks to predictable encounters that you figure out quick. An inventory and cool holographic UI can only carry it so far.

I didn't get any impression of Dishonored that it was in the same category as Deus Ex at all, quit forcing this Arkane game X is Deus Ex meme.

I know someone in there cleaned the toilets at Ion Storm during the development of Deus Ex, but the games aren't the fucking same, and definitely are not as good. DX is a RPG/FPS/stealth hybrid, while Dishonored has little if any RPG elements. I'd say even the combat is worse, the gunplay of DX is lacking but the accuracy mechanics were fine and well balanced to builds while Dishonored's combat consisting of timed parries which is boring as sin.

Also the world, setting, story and even the art style of Deus Ex shit all over the ape-looking aberrations of Dishonored, and utterly forgettable story characters and everything else. Dishonored was also plenty casualized if you compare it to Thief, a game it is clearly trying to go for, I guess when Arkane does it, it's okay.

>>378223513
Oh also I skipped Prey 2017, I saw nothing it in that was remarkable at all, and the UI, filled with location markers and constant "PRESS E TO _______" prompts is absolutely cancerous. I never cared about Prey 2 not believed it was going to be as good as the promotional material, I just saw nothing in Prey 2017 that made me want to play it.

>>378225112
It's still much better than Bioshock.
Also did some things better than SS2 like level design or world building.

>>378225416
That isn't saying much, and it managed to have worse UI than Bioshock, that at leasn't didn't shove location markers everywhere as if the game was made for people with IQ 12, and clearly copies Bioshock when it comes to interaction prompts. Talk about taking immersion and throwing it out of the window.

>>378225613
>that at leasn't didn't shove location markers everywhere as if the game was made for people with IQ 12

Bioshock had a fucking permanent arrow on your screen.
And Bioshock level design was basically one long corridor with side rooms on the way.
Which is the total opposite in Prey. Level design (and area architecture) is way more open than Bioshock or even SS2. It's much more related to Arx or other Metroidvania games where you can go in a lot of directions by the start of the game.

>>378225112
>I complain about things I can turn off that are completely unnecessary and the game can be played fine without them
I seriously hope you weren't playing Dishonored with quest markers. The only reason they're there is for console casual fuckers who've never played the games DH is spiritually succeeding and get lost in anything that isn't completely linear. But if they had made it as a PC exclusive, you can bet the game would be different. I just wish the people at Arkane left Bethesda and joined Otherside already. And then they can make a deal with Square-Enix and make real new Thief and Deus Ex again.

>>378225897
How is multiple markers any better?

>>378225965
Even turning the UI off you'd still have that combat, I watched some videos of Prey 2017, and it was just some guy shooting a glue gun of sorts at enemies then wacking them with the wrech, looked awfully boring to me.

I'm sorry but Arkane's games are NOTHING like old Looking Glass/ion and they're much shallower imitations at best. Dishonored clearly shows modernized trends, like the timed parries initiation a cinematic takedown, shallower stealth mechanics, no use of different surfaces making different sounds or a light/shade system, almost everything felt half assed compared to 10+ years old games. It had interesting level design and that's it. Games need much more than that to be great though.

>>378226527
Prey actually comes really close to System Shock.

Its a great game.

>>378226527
So you didn't even play it, saw some review by a dumbfuck youtouber and decided it wasn't good. Good job.

>timed parries initiation a cinematic takedown
In a game that allows for various playstyles, how would you do combat that isn't "modernized"?

>shallower stealth mechanics, no use of different surfaces making different sounds or a light/shade system
Again, this is an issue caused by the fact that they're required by Bethesda to make their games a certain way. They don't have the freedom they SHOULD have to make the games they want, but between Bethesda and dumbshit consolefag playtesters, there's not a lot they can do. I really wish they either went with Otherside like I said before or just go independent. They're clearly not working to their full potential. For me, due to the complete lack of immersive sims and stealth games in general as well, we take what we get. Even if it's an imperfect game with flaws.

>>378226527
>How is multiple markers any better?

It's better because it doesn't actually tell you how to get to the location as opposed to an arrow telling you exactly what path/direction you have to take at a T instant.

>>378226695
Okay, still looked boring as sin in all videos and webms I've watched.

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>>378219912
>It's time to admit this wasn't that good, and apart from being able to meme kick it has the exact same shoddy FPS melee

I mean I can already tell that this thread is shitty bait posting, but saying that DM is the same as any melee combat game is like saying Thief is the same as any stealth game out there, only focusing purely on the mechanics and completely ignoring excellent level design where said mechanics come into play.

DM is still pretty good. I played it quite a bit only a few weeks ago. Only thing that feels weird is the sword dragging after the players viewpoint and general sluggish/unprecise/unresponsive controls. In its defense though, the movement is more of a simulated aspect than a pure game aspect since you are moving an entire body, not just a camera with weapons tacked in front of it.

In short: Your opinion's shit. neck yourself.

>>378227094
If I let videos of other people shape my opinion of games, I would hate a lot more games than I do now. Learn to think for yourself and actually play games before making an opinion. It's one thing if a genre isn't to your liking, it's another for someone to make cherrypicked videos and say "See look how shitty and boring this game is"

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>>378222548
>but who else? Exactly.

me

>>378219912
>it has the exact same shoddy FPS melee combat that all the Skyrim games have

Bait & Sage.

>>378219912
No Todd, it's time to admit the combat mechanics in your shitty 10 year old gamebryo kit are trash. Stop kidding yourself and use a new fucking kit.

>All the Skyrim games

>>378227054
>>378227320
Why should I play something that looks boring as sin and has no demo?

Also don't project that I heard some shitty e-celeb saying it is bad, I watched gameplay videos and it looked bad to me. Sorry if that hurts you, but it was my impression. Tons of people posting webms of Prey, some people shooting multiple pics of the player character using pressing the button on a screen from a distance by shooting something at it, that shit doesn't look very engaging to me.

Takedowns make things too simplified, Deus Ex had local damage with you aiming different areas of the body with melee weapons for optimal results. In Dishonored you sneak behind and press a button anywhere to watch an assassination animation. it's an extra layer thrown out for the modernized audiences I suppose. I will say Dishonored's solution is better than the nuDeus Ex HR/MD trash where you spend a long time watching the same animations now in 3rd person, but it's still simplified compared to what was done in the past.

Non-modernized melee combat: Mount&Blade is in the right path, taking movement speed and momentum in consideration, start working from there instead of timed press to watch takedown. If it's too complicated, targeting specific areas of the body being optimal for the particular weapon, even if Deus Ex's melee combat was barebones, it was still better than PRESS Q TO TAKEDOWN when near an enemy.

Dark Messiah suffered of its melee combat not being so great as well, was it Ubisoft's fault? At one point you've got to put the blame on Arkane for their shortcomings. Doom 2016 was pretty clear of modernized trends, to Bethesda's credit. All it needed was modding tools, but Carmack and newer idTech engines are mostly to blame for that, since he said the engine is too difficult for modders or whatever.

>>378228103
>the player character using pressing the button on a screen from a distance by shooting something at it, that shit doesn't look very engaging to me
>inventive ways to surpass a game obstacle
>doesn't look engaging

>In Dishonored you sneak behind and press a button anywhere to watch an assassination animation
How would you prefer it, for you to click, the sword slashes, and the body falls? The only reason Thief and Deus Ex did it like they did was because they couldn't have animations like DH does now back then. Also, I always go nonlethal in stealth games so I didn't do a whole lot of killing anyways. I do wish the stealth mechanics were more robust, I wish a modern PC game improved on everything that Thief 2 did, but that would be an incredibly niche game that won't sell that much.

>>378228959
In Deus Ex there's a difference you feel when you use the baton on someone's legs and back, in games like Dishonored it's all fine as long as you press the key near the enemy, yes that's something more simplified or modernized. Local damage opens the possibilties for all kinds of shit, like hitting someone on the legs and making them stumble or whatever, would be great to get out of this Press A for Takedown trend and into something with more substance over flash.

Also I don't buy the niche bullshit, Doom 2016 used mechanics that are considered niche nowadays, like no cover, less hitscan enemies, dodging and faster movement speed, no health regen. Games with aspects considered niche can still exist, Minecraft pouplarized an entire genre on being different than the rest, Terraria also sold fuckloads of copies being quite different from most games on the market, and taking clues from Minecraft, and so on. Dark Souls did the same on a smaller scale. Assassin's Creed 1, when it came out, was quite different from every game on the market, quite different from GTA, and that's how it got popular. It didn't try to go hey kids would you like GTA with horses, it carved its own path, then it got milked until the cow was dry.

>>378229751
It's one thing to make a new oldschool shooter or an autismal building sim, but stealth games are already niche. Combine that with the depth of the best stealth games like Thief 2 and SC, and you get something that, yeah, it'll make waves because challenging games are being more accepted now, but it won't ever reach a mass appeal unless it's dumbed down for the casual console masses. I wish Arkane made PC games exclusively, and that Bethesda/Zenimax gave them the freedom they definitely should have, but unfortunately, for now, that is not the case.

>>378219912
Arx fatalis is their best game, Todd can't even compete.

>>378219912
I know you're just a troll, but still, fuck you.

>>378219912
shut up you stupid faggot. dark messiah is the best game that runs on the source engine by far

>>378219912
It's time to hang yourself, OP.

>>378219912
i remember the time when bethesda acquired arkane and elder scrolls fags were hoping for dark messiah combat in skyrim, only to be a massive let down
dark messiah is a quality game despite its technical issues
blow it out your ass op

>>378230207
Many games nowadays use stealth in them, much shallower than a stealth oriented game would go for, but it's there. It's not that niche, games like Amnesia, Alien: Isolation, Outlast, RE7, all those style of games are stealth/horror games. The whole concept of stealth isn't that alien to mainstream audiences. Something much more obscure would be spacesims/space combat, if you ask people noadays what's a space game they'll say "oh you mean like mass effect?" Making a game for that genre now isn't going to get approved by publishers.

It's not a perfect game by any merits, but we don't have anything similar.

Skyrim was pure garbage. More content, but zero depth.
Dishonored had good combat but it was more stealth oriented and you only had one meele weapon.
Lichdom battlemage had complex magic system but it also had grind and RNG bullshit.
The one hell like game was canceled.
I don't know about any other first-person sword@magic games. It's sad this genre is ded. Instead people are making shitty space simulators and old-school rpgs. Fuck this shit.

>>378221558
It's been summer for the last 5 years at least.

>>378219912
>FPS melee combat
>FPS
>First Person Shooter
>Melee combat
opinion discarded