Bloodborne > Dark Souls > Demon's Souls > Dark

>>378013904
>Bloodborne >
Stopped reading there.

>>378014408
Why?

>>378015652
No PS4.

K I N O

>>378015746
That's what I thought.

dark souls 3 is artificial difficulty the game.

It's fucking retarded that fromsoft fell for the hardcore difficulty meme. Most dark souls bosses weren't that hard but souls 3's bosses are just insane. It's fucking stupid.

>>378013904
Demon's Souls is an unrefined mess compared to the refinements made in later iterations. I would put it below Dark Souls III. Dark Souls III has its faults (it's very derivative), but it is also a refined experience and has some of the most interesting unique weapons in the series.

I've never played bloodborne but could it really be better than Dark Souls I? There was just some magic about that game (until you get to the last 3 areas which are dog shit).

>>378015921
Name one

In terms of pure quality, it's probably BB > DaS3 > DaS > DeS > DaS2.

Personally I feel like as a whole, it's BB = DaS > DaS3 > DeS = DaS 2.

With DLC, BB > DaS = DaS3 > DaS2 > DeS

>>378015921
Lets not forget about le "balance the entire game around pvp feedback" thing, it's fucking ridiculous, same thing as to why DaS2 vanilla has more build variety than the updated game/ softs

>>378013904
>Bloodborne >
>post image of a garbage tier boss

>>378016073
Not him, but they are not hard, they're just stupid

>oops i'm dead haha
>nope haha itsa prank bro
>not even my final form lmao
>also brought some friends have fun haha

now, it was fine when confined to 1-2 bosses the entire game, but DaS3 feels like a fucking Dragon Ball spin-off

>>378015652
>little to no variety in builds
>little variety in weapons outside the DLC
>dodging costs almost no stamina and has a ton of iframes making the game too easy
>can only invade ganksquads
>summoning players from a wrong covenant results in a hostile phantom
>NG+ offers nothing
>no respec function, coupled with no shared progress in the chalice dungeons, makes trying a different build an awful chore
>the world is too linear, making every playthrough progress the same
>Byrgenwerth and Cainhurst are tiny and empty
>endgame and PvP are based around RNG farm and savescumming
>etc.

I must say I really loved the setting and the lore though. More so than in the Souls games. But rating BB as the best game is just stupid.

>>378015921
The only really hard boss in dark souls was ornstein and smough. There were also a lot of bosses that were ridiculously easy but had really cool designs.

Lots of souls 3 bosses require twich reflexes and memorizing entire movesets and luck because of RNG. The bosses also have no stamina meter so they can just keep swinging at you non stop and only leaving a half second opening to do damage. That's artificial difficulty.

>>378015921
It was a marketing thing. Dark Souls II went the same way but with enemies. They were trying to make every boss an "epic fight", rather than considering the narrative and lore for every boss, as well as the experience. They wanted every fight to be Ornstein and Smough, basically, with Bloodborne style speed.
>>378015969
Okay, but the series isn't about combat. It was purposefully kept simple and realistic. Weapon variety, build variety, playstyles, balancing, and combat were not the focus of Demon's Souls. It was, like Dark Souls and, to a lesser extent Bloodborne, about the experience of the game. The combat exists to serve the experience and build an atmosphere. You're supposed to feel intimidated, small, and uncertain. Really, the combat is one of the last things I'd consider when judging these games.

>>378016150
I tried to play dark souls 2 again last week and it is unbearable after playing 3. The animations, the range of the weapons, the stupid as fuck enemies, the faded washed-out textures, the green comic book zombie look you get after one death....it's all complete fucking dog shit.

Also they fucked up weapon balance - later weapons are just straight up better than early ones. The longsword doesn't have a thrust R2. YOU CAN'T EVEN COMBO AN R1 INTO AN R2. It's just horrendous.

Quit when I got to no man's wharf. Never again.

>>378013904
Switch DeS and DS3. DS1 and DS3 are basically the same game, save a few changes. Some are better, some are worse ,but they sorta cancel eachother out.

Close. It's:
Bloodborne > Dark Souls > Demon's Souls > Dark Souls II > Dogshit > Dark Souls 3

>>378016464
It really was a different game, like it or not, i was talking about build variety, Das2 vanilla had really good faith, int and fire builds, and they got destroyed by pvp babbies, don't even get me started on III magic system.

DeS did the mana thing x100 times better.

>>378016442
>the series isn't about combat
TOP KEK

>>378016442
Dark souls had a mysterious feel to it. Sometimes you'd have a fog wall that led into a boss and sometimes it would just lead to an empty room. The world was dark but a joy to discover.

Dark souls 3 has amazing graphics and scenery but lost that initial magic of dark souls. It all became about >muh hardcore difficulty

I hope the next dark souls goes back to its roots and just drops all that stupid lore bullshit that only autists care about.

>>378016343
>>little to no variety in builds
That was the point. It was done to avoid the poor balancing of games like Dark Souls where certain playstyles made the game a breeze and killed the atmosphere.
>>little variety in weapons outside the DLC
That was, again, the point. The weapons are well balanced and unique. It makes it more likely you'll favour one weapon and use it, rather than having 6 variations of the greatsword.
>>dodging costs almost no stamina and has a ton of iframes making the game too easy
That was the point. The game is built around fast, twitch play and the enemies often use follow ups which require extra dodging. If you master that skill early on, well done. But mistakes are punished.
>>can only invade ganksquads
The online play is just fun, don't take it seriously.
>>summoning players from a wrong covenant results in a hostile phantom
The covenants oppose one another. Learn about them ad what they stand for.
>>NG+ offers nothing
Another play through.
>>no respec function, coupled with no shared progress in the chalice dungeons, makes trying a different build an awful chore
I didn't think so. No real chore to me.
>>the world is too linear, making every playthrough progress the same
This is a good criticism, but it is necessitated by the way the goal of the atmosphere, to build a growing pressure that is released at the end.
>>Byrgenwerth and Cainhurst are tiny and empty
They're both very interesting areas. Byrgenwerth was deserted, remember.
>>endgame and PvP are based around RNG farm and savescumming
Don't take the online play too seriously.

>>378013904
You're correct anon but I think from an objective standpoint it could definitely be argued that DaS 3 is superior to DeS.

>>378016925
>Dark souls 3 has amazing graphics and scenery but lost that initial magic of dark souls. It all became about >muh hardcore difficulty

Have we played the same game? I personally found 3 to be the easiest Dark Souls game. Rarely bosses took me more than 1-2 tries to beat. Dunno, maybe I just got much better since I played the first game, but out of all things you could have complained about DS3, the difficulty is the least legitimate one. If anything, it could have been harder.

Does anyone else think mobs are more difficult than bosses?
Ringed City definitely solidified this belief for me
As a sorcerer, I absolutely wrecked Demon Prince (crystal hail actually works great here), Gael and Midir (pestilent mercury wrecks him), but the fight in the chapel with the NPCs fucked me over many times, not to mention the ring knights and fat ring knights

>>378017129
No shit if you played 100s of hours of dark souls games you'd be good at it by now. But not everyone is a hardcore NEET. I enjoyed dark souls without being a hardcore gamer. But dark souls 3 expects you to have beaten the previous games a dozen times to have a chance.

Bloodsnore is just DEXfags: the game

>>378015969
>Demon's Souls is an unrefined mess compared to the refinements made in later iterations.

Funny part is that DaS3 actually plays more like DeS than any other game.

>>378016542
How? Dark Souls III is nothing like Dark Souls. Please explain in detail.
>>378016712
It's really not. The combat is important, if it was a complicated system that rewarded mastery I could understand your point, but the combat is simple, not a bad thing, and, though easily mastered, punishes mistakes harshly most of the time. That's the point, remember. It is the way it is because it serves the atmosphere of the game.
>>378016925
Demon's Souls gave the same feeling, and Bloodborne also did, but not as well. III feels like a representation of the perception of Dark Souls, like a hollow shell. It is, mechanically, very similar, but it lacks the depth and substance, atmospherically, that Dark Souls had and did so well.
>>378017129
It's not really about the difficulty, what he's really saying is that the game focuses more on creating demanding combat sequences. Fights that require you to constantly dodge fast-paced attacks, or take on multiple enemies and/or phases. This isn't necessarily difficult to everyone, but it gives off the impression that the game is catering to the marketing ploy of difficulty.

>>378013904
>Bloodborne > Dark Souls > Demon's Souls > Dark Souls III > Dark Souls II
I liked DaS more than DeS, but DeS should be above DaS.

>>378017338
You are just a moron, das3 is by far the easiest souls game until lorian/lothric which is pretty much the end.

>>378013904

I've played all of the games.
Watch this:

DeS>BB>DaSII>DaS>>>>>DaSIII

>>378017025
Except Bloodborne still came out easy, and is a breeze with pretty much any weapon. Especially the most commonly found Str-leaning quality weapons.
Plus the director himself said that he was disappointed with the lack of variety, and liked working with less setting-imposed gameplay restrictions.
And the DLC weapons are flat upgrades over the vanilla ones. Especially when you have shit like the Church Pick that gets hidden bonus damage modifiers to both beasts and kin, and primarily inflicts thrust damage. And HMS with its three-way scaling dominating the late game.

I won't even comment on your other points, because your whole post you're just turning a blind eye to the game's faults, and making excuses how it's somehow okay because it was supposed to suck.
BB was a great game, like all of Souls series really, but pretending it's perfect and better than all the other games in every regard, is just fanboyism.

>>378017558
It's a toss up to me. Both the open world design and the archstones have their good and bad points. The games are hard to separate, but I think the DLC of Dark Souls gives it a slight edge.

>>378017731
I'm not saying it's perfect, but you seem to fundamentally misunderstand what makes these games enjoyable experiences. I'm not saying you can't enjoy them for their combat and online play, but that is not why they are praised and not why they are considered great games.

>>378015921
Dark Souls 3 is the easiest Souls game once you accept that it plays more like Bloodborne than DS1

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>>378017541
>How? Dark Souls III is nothing like Dark Souls. Please explain in detail.

>>378017936
this pisses me off the most
>wear full Havel set
>get stunlocked by a fucking rapier
leveling VIT is pointless

>>378016343
>little to no variety in builds
don't know about you but i never found myself using anything other than abbreviations from the standart 2h or 1h weapon in right hand and either shield, talisman or staff in the other hand in all the other souls games. At least here the weapons are all unique and offer a different playstyle.
>little variety in weapons outside the DLC
No one plays the game without the dlc anymore anyway
>dodging costs almost no stamina and has a ton of iframes making the game too easy
well in dark souls you can just block everything. "makes the game too easy lol"
>can only invade ganksquads
no one invades anywhere other than in nightmare anyway because pvp in souls games is fucking garbage and you autists can't help but cry about it
>summoning players from a wrong covenant results in a hostile phantom
I'll give you that
>NG+ offers nothing
No other game except dark sousl 2 did that and that game was fucking garbage. point is you don't need that for the game to be good although i agree that it would be better if that was the case
>no respec function, coupled with no shared progress in the chalice dungeons, makes trying a different build an awful chore
True but unless you are again one of the pvp minmaxing autists you don't have enter any fucking chalice dungeon
>the world is too linear, making every playthrough progress the same
Not necessarily. You can choose to do some areas earlier or later for example hemwick, cainhurst and the entire dlc.
>Byrgenwerth and Cainhurst are tiny and empty
So are some areas in other souls games whats your point
>endgame and PvP are based around RNG farm and savescumming
there is no fucking endgame. you treat this as a multiplayer game or an mmo or whatever. this is not what it is. its a fucking singleplayergame that has a definite ending. Any attempt to extend your playthrough through some bullshit like pvp or chalice farming is just retarted and i honestly have no idea why fromsoft implements shit like this

>>378018009
It really isn't.

BB >= DaS > DaS3 > DeS > DaS2

only thing that puts das potentially below bb is engine imo

>>378018085
How is Das3 better than DeS?

>>378018178
I'm an enginefag, the newer engines just make the games more enjoyable for me. The clunkiness of DaS and DeS just make it hard for me to want to replay them, whereas II III and BB don't make me want to kill myself when I start a new character.

>>378013904
Dark souls 2: sotfs is the only actually good game in the series. I'm being genuine when I say this. Two had the best combat (tho the bosses are weak but idgaf), is accessible but still difficult, has the most weapon/build variety and viability, ect. 3 is ok but the hit boxes are so fucked, the build variety is dogshit, ect. Level design is cool though.

>>378013904
>Maybe Demon's Souls could be higher than Dark Souls
wew

>>378018343
>build variety

not when every magic build got killed by pvp babbies that wanted to nerf and it's completely useless against every DLC boss

>>378018338
I don't see how "clunkiness" really affects the quality of the games.
>>378018343
>Two had the best combat (tho the bosses are weak but idgaf), is accessible but still difficult, has the most weapon/build variety and viability
None of these things are very important. If you're judging the other games for their combat I can see why you don't like them, but that isn't point and they shouldn't be judged by it.

Can't agree with BB on top and that's mostly due to the stunlocking in PVE. There is little to no stamina management and most enemies are prone to being staggered. Every fight turned out to be a mash fest for me.

The only case where this isn't true is are larger-than-human enemies, which are few and easy to parry.

Bosses were alright, though.

>>378016442
>with Bloodborne style speed.
Then actually make the game fast enough to merit that. It's stupid as fuck that half of the bosses in the game are so aggressive that you chugging is asking the get fucked in the ass even if you time it correctly.

>>378018570

Not him but DaSII has the best lore in the DaS trilogy, which is why it's the best.

>>378018570
When controls are sometimes unresponsive, perform actions you didn't want them to do, like if I dodge roll an attack and whiff it then end up rolling as soon as I get up despite not pressing circle again, and worse animations/fluidity it drags down the experience for me a lot. Clunkiness is a huge detriment to a lot of good games, it's not something that you can ignore.

>>378018736
sitting here trying to imagine a bloodborne where all the enemies are as tough as the dlc squid giants and shark giants and it makes me realize how wrong your opinion is

>>378019015
I had more instances of stupid roll/attack queueing long after it should've dropped the input in DaS3 than I did playing DaS1 at fucking 10-20 FPS.

Dark Souls II will outlived all other Soulborne games because it has by fart the best pvp in the series.

Mine
Bloodborne > DaS2 > DaS > DaS3

>>378019012
I don't think you can judge lore like that. Personally, I like Bloodborne's lore the most, followed by Demon's Souls. Though, I would consider Dark Souls to have the deepest metaphor, which is what the lore in that game represents.
>>378018949
This is one of the issues. III doesn't know what it wants to be. One of the factors that ruins the game for me.

>>378019314
>best pvp in the series
>soul memory
pick one

>>378019015
You're talking about stored rolls? That was intentional.

>>378019228
well I had the reverse experience and it, and other little quirks pissed me off in DeS more than the other games.

>>378019547
Action storage that comes when the player doesn't want it is stupid.

>>378013904
I've never played DeS because no PS3, but I do agree with you on the other four. Good job. You should probably have put some more >>>>>>> before DS2 though. I found that unplayable.

>>378018343
>talking about fucked hit boxes
>2 is the best game ever

You are a special kind of retard

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>>378013904

dark souls 3 > dark souls 1 > demon souls > bloodborne > dark souls 2

fixed it for you dumbass

>>378019631
>Action storage that comes when the player doesn't want it is stupid.
The game reads your inputs, not your mind.
>>378019693
>You should probably have put some more >>>>>>> before DS2 though
I originally put some before 3, but I just dropped them entirely. Though, I do agree that 2 is significantly worse than 3.

>>378019817
What's the appeal of Dark Souls 3?

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>all this hate on II

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>>378020109
for me its cause pic related not included

>>378017936
Dark Souls 3 is also by far the most poorly balanced game in the series. I played it once as a heavy weapons using STR character and once as a fast twinsword using DEXfag and the difference was night and day, it was 1000x easier with DEX.

>>378020067

Shiny graphics

>>378020067
it's the only one with current graphics for people that cannot play bloodborne.

>>378020109
For me it's the boring levels, enemy groups, uninteresting bosses, poorly realised atmosphere, and the progression route.

>>378020109
Was deserved though, with the dumbed down (graphic & content wise) release it left a bad taste in people's mouth, then they made and charged people for the "upgraded version" which pissed people off even more, I didn't mind 2 myself but thanks to bamco it will never receive the glory it could of potentially earned

>>378020361
>>378020307
kek

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>mfw I enjoy dark souls 3 better than bloodborne

I 100% both games and can honestly say DaS 3 is far superior, I gotta stop believing /v/

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>>378013904
>God Hand > Bloodborne
Prove me wrong

>>378020109
The biggest reasons for me are the far clunkier gameplay, mediocre level design, abhorrent world design, terrible pig shit art direction, and the fact that it has exactly ONE decent boss without the DLC.

>>378020287
>99 STR build with +5 fume greatsword does 700 damage fully charged R2 on Gael (takes about 3 and a half seconds to charge up)
>45 STR 45 DEX with +10 Gotthard Twinblades does 1400 damage spamming R1 (3 seconds of spamming with no risk)

>>378020464
What makes it better for you?

>>378020489
what kind of asinine fucking comparison is that?

>>378020568
Yep, and the biggest thing that makes DEX so much better is that in DaS 3 many bosses BARELY ever give you a chance to attack. Fighting Friede and Gael with the Black Knight Greataxe I basically had to except that any time I got in a hit I'd take one as well while with DEX weapons you can get safe pokes in after every single roll.

>>378020758
I wonder how much of the game was just unused assets from Bloodborne.

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>DaS3 has good level desi-

>>378020109
some reddit e-celeb did an unpleasant review on it and people now mindlessly repeat the same retarded cherry picking shit.

I'm truly surprised whenever I come to /v/ and people praise Bloodborne as Christ reborn.

It's either the easiest, or second easiest game in the franchise. Infinite free dodges+instant repeatable heals+healing from dmging enemies was a poor idea. Once you play it like a action mash fest instead of Dark Souls it's braindead.

With that said, DS3 seemed to suffer mostly the same fate. I've replayed DS3 about 10 times, and never touched BB again after the first completion, take that for what you will.

>>378013904

Die from cancer son of a whore platform loyalist. This is the objective factual rankings:

BB > DAS3 > DAS > DAS2 > DES

>>378016343
Agree, also you get wayyyyy to many blood viles making the game trivial at times.
Fall damage is literally hilarious
Chalice dungeons are a joke.

I actually think that DaS3 is a better game than BB, but hey what do i know.

>>378021469
Not the worst example of level design. My main gripe with the design of that game in general is how lacking it is creatively. It's always the same formula of an elevator looping back to an early bonfire. It makes it feel more like it's merely serving the purpose of letting you bypass areas, rather than connecting the world/level. And you can always see them coming, so you expect to find a shortcut back to your bonfire, there is no sense of dread of losing your souls to a boss, because you won't be put in that position.

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>>378013904
Bloodborne is the most overrated game on /v/.

As someone who's an actual fan of the whole franchise that didn't start with Bloodborne and then pretend I'd played DeS and rank it high: here's a better look:

Including ALL DLC:

DaS2 > DeS >> Bb > DaS3 > DaS

Before you rush to respond in your retardation, just remember:

• Dark Souls 2 is the only game where you don't have to visit a hub to smith/level/manage equiptment.

• PVP is a weak point in the series but Dark Souls 2 SotFS has the best online experience of any game when it comes to Co-Op and PVP

• More people have pretended to play Demon's Souls than maybe any other game on this board. Most of those people started with Bb.

>>378019038
Not saying it had to go to extremes, just saying that a couple of different tactics other than "see enemy, hammer enemy" on the trashmobs would be nice. I mean I barely had to know what enemy I was facing. If the enemy is human-sized, I will stunlock the fucker until dead.

>>378021581
The games aren't good because they're "hard".

Funny how nobody gives a fuck about bloodborne apart from /v/.

Really makes you think.

>>378022046
But a game can be bad because it's too easy

>>378021726
>As someone who's an actual fan of the whole franchise that didn't start with Bloodborne
I started with DaS 7 years ago and BB is the best.

>>378021712
>Not the worst example of level design.

>almost zero verticality
>no unique enemies barring the worm
>worm itself puts up barely any fight
>underground section is a featureless maze that looks like it was made from chalice dungeon assets
>barely any need to bother turning the balista off when it's so easy to just straight up run to the boss room
>crap boss fight to top it all off

I suppose Road of Sacrifice might be worse.

>>378022090
Not necessarily, but it can ruin the atmosphere of a Souls game.

>>378013904
None of you fagglets ever gets this right.
It just shows how much of a bunch of nu-gamers you subhuman fagglets are.

It's

Demon's Souls = Bloodborne > Dark Souls 1 > DS 3 > DS 2

Anyone disagreeing with this objective and subjective fact is a dumb son of a whore who shouldn't play video games.

>>378022517
I never saw the point of the trophies, seemed pointless to go for them.

>>378022571

Wrong.

True ranking:

BB > DaS3 > DaS > DaS2 > DeS

>>378013904
The only game among those that's better than DS3 is BB.
The only thing DS1 has over 3 is the overall world layout, everything else 3 does miles better. DeS on the other hand, has nothing over 3.

>>378023197
What makes 3 good to you?

>>378023428
Great combat, definitely the most balanced out of all the souls games, great bosses, great art and level design.

>>378015746

How about learning to read before posting dumbass

10 days

>>378013904
BB PvP sucks and ds3 with the rolling is ridiculously easy I say daSII is better than both

>>378013904
Wrong.

Here's the objectively correct ranking:


Dark Souls > Bloodborne > Dark Souls III / Demon's Souls > Dark Souls 2

>>378023813
>BB PvP sucks and ds3 with the rolling is ridiculously easy
Meanwhile in DS2 you can have 99 lifegems + 99 radiant lifegems + 99 old radiant lifegems and an inifintely repairable noob rings.

>>378023601
>Great combat, definitely the most balanced out of all the souls games
Probably because the only other game to really focus on combat was II.
>great bosses, great art and level design.
I would disagree. The bosses don't seem to serve a lot of purpose outside of making a fight that feels fluid . However, this doesn't mesh well with conservative style play and heavy armour/weaponry. The art is directionless. It seems like a mixture of different inspirations and fails to form anything collectively. Set pieces may look nice, but the art style is very shallow. And finally, the level design is lazy, dull, and uninspired. It is one of the worst things about the game to me. I can't think of one example where the level design gave me any feeling. It was all expected, by the books, regurgitated humdrum.

>>378013904
Dark Souls 3 > Dark Souls > Bloodborne > Demon's Souls > Dark Souls 2

I know I'm in the minority here but I like that DaS3 replaced poise with hyper armor. Before, heavy armor users were really safe and could just walk through weaker attacks. Now they have to stay more alert. I also like the general progression more so than DaS1, although the world of DaS1 is put together much more effectively. DaS3 is easily my favorite and has some of my most favorite bosses throughout the series.

Dark Souls 1 is a close second but some stupid shit like Tomb of the Giants and Lost Izalith keep me from enjoying the game fully. Yeah, DaS3 has Farron Swamp which I'm not a fan of but it's nowhere near as bad as DaS1's worst.

Bloodborne is an extremely solid game but the removal of most of the stats, especially equipment load, severely lowers build variety. It has some of the best level design in the series but this is probably due to the fact that the developers knew that every player would have the same run and dodge speed - it's easier to develop good levels when the player's avatar is mostly static. It's also the easiest game in the series, by far.

Hilariously, I dislike Bloodborne for dropping equipment load but I also dislike Demon's Souls for inventory load. Adding on to this having to stock grass for healing, which totally negates miracle healing, and it's just a really awkward and unbalanced game. It's not so bad once you know the game like the back of your hand but the first time through is a definite mess.

DaS2 has some really rough enemy placement and lame level design choices. Soul memory was a horrible decision and it didn't do shit to stop hackers anyway; anyone who wants to twink is still going to twink. On top of everything, showering the player with healing items just brings us back to one of DeS' problems and despawning enemies was stupid and did nothing to solve this. It tried some cool things, like varied PvP arenas, but that's not enough for me.

how are you faggots not tired of these souls ranking threads yet

>>378016351
I beat the game in my first run with the greatsword Ultrasword with no phantom aid at all. They are hard but rewarding and not extremely hard either.

DS > DSIII > DSII (for pvp) > Demon's

I have yet to play BB, but the framerate is a turn off, I played all souls at 60fps after demons.

>>378023962
>Ring of Sacrifice can be repaired
I forgot about this. Has there ever been another stupider decision that completely misses the point?

>>378024212
>It's not so bad once you know the game like the back of your hand but the first time through is a definite mess.
That's the point. It's not supposed to feel like you're in control of everything. The idea is that you feel helpless and intimidated by the worlds before you. You're supposed to explore worlds and the idea, though poorly implemented, is that you would have to ration your grass on a level per level basis. So it puts a strain on your resources when you're, say, exploring the caverns in 2-2. Do you continue and risk dying and, potentially, returning to soul form, or go back to get more resources.

Can't really see how anyone likes DAS3, it's like when people say their favorite album of <Band/Artist> is their greatest hits collection.

>>378025024
I suppose that's apt. A greatest hits album does what the originals did but loses the context and soul of the completed product. It's like the greatest hits album of a band that wrote concept albums.

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>>378024079
>The bosses don't seem to serve a lot of purpose outside of making a fight that feels fluid . However, this doesn't mesh well with conservative style play and heavy armour/weaponry.
The only reason people complain about heavy weapons is because stacking poise in previous games used to be easy mode. Now that they actually have to use their heads and be careful with their timing, they start complaining.

>The art is directionless.
There's a reason why, for example, that deep blue, ashen gray and fire red are some of the most prominent colors in the game.
And a run down shanty is not going to look like a royal palace obviously. Also remember that the lands of Lords have been pulled together by the fading of the flame.
So even lorewise there's an explanation for the mish mash of artstyles.

>I can't think of one example where the level design gave me any feeling.
No cathedral of the deep, no undead settlement, no grand archives, no lothric castle?
Even the smoldering lake a neat little, classic maze.

>>378016464
DaS2's animations were all mo-capped, iirc, and it's pretty fucking hilarious that you're complaining about washed-out textures and praising DaS3 in the same sentence.

Combat
DaS3 > BB > DaS1 > DeS > DaS2
Bosses
DaS3 > BB> DaS2 > DaS1 > DeS
Overall
DaS1 > BB > DaS2 > DeS > DaS3 > Sotfs

>>378023601
>definitely the most balanced out of all the souls games

Nigga what? I haven't played this game since shortly after launch since it sucks shit but it certainly had the worst build balance as far as launch is concerned, with dex wiping the floor with just about everything else.

>>378022338
>almost zero verticality
There's a fair bit of climbing and underground areas. They don't directly connect to each too often but it's cool to see an older area from above.
>no unique enemies barring the worm
I thought those four armed pyromancer monsters were unique and fun to fight against, although that hallway with three or four of them was kind of bullshit.
>worm itself puts up barely any fight
This was really fucking disappointing, holy shit.
>underground section is a featureless maze that looks like it was made from chalice dungeon assets
Agreed. It was easy to get lost in there and that shit got annoying.
>barely any need to bother turning the balista off when it's so easy to just straight up run to the boss room
Maybe, but I enjoyed exploring that place for the most place. If anything, I like that DaS3 allows the player to easily skip right to the boss in several areas rather than forcing the player to go through a whole level again if they don't really need to.
>crap boss fight to top it all off
Yeah, he was probably the worst boss of the game as long as you're not counting gimmicky bosses like Deacons of the Deep or Ancient Wyvern, but he wasn't awful either. He was just average.

>>378025389
I'm going to guess you weren't there for the ninja flipping havel monsters of the first Dark Souls? Fuck off.

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>>378015746
i don't own a PS4 and i still think OP is right.

>DeS
>magic viable
>DaS
>Magic Viable
>DaS2
>Magic extremely viable
>Bloodborne
>"""Magic'""" viable if you had 99 arcane
>DaS3
>Magic requires 4 magic boosting rings, 1 magic boosting helm, 1 magic boosting off hand, still does less damage than melee

What happened /v/?

I think DeS is ranked so low because it was too complex. Dark souls definitely perfected the formula but there was something about the atmosphere of DeS that makes it great.

>>378025752
>magic and poise stacking are no longer easy modes
I see nothing wrong.

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>>378025024
>it's like when people say their favorite album of <Band/Artist> is their greatest hits collection.

Literally this. DaS3 is just a grab-bag of generic Souls elements slapped together with no real cohesion that aims to be nothing more than serviceable and make some quick dosh.
It's the pleb-magnet game that people who don't know any better would gravitate to as their favourite.

>>378025223
>The only reason people complain about heavy weapons is because stacking poise in previous games used to be easy mode. Now that they actually have to use their heads and be careful with their timing, they start complaining.
No, the problem is that you have Bloodborne style bosses with Dark Souls style combat and builds. It just makes the strength build redundant in favour of a dex build. What is better is when both are fair ways to go through the game.

>There's a reason why, for example, that deep blue, ashen gray and fire red are some of the most prominent colors in the game.
And a run down shanty is not going to look like a royal palace obviously. Also remember that the lands of Lords have been pulled together by the fading of the flame.
So even lorewise there's an explanation for the mish mash of artstyles.
I'm not really talking about the colours. It doesn't represent that idea very well, I'd say. It doesn't show that the lands have been pulled together, it shows some disjointed areas. If they were more obviously different, or blended into one another better it would be good. But these just feel like spearate levels with clear beginning and end points. That doesn't push the idea of worlds coming together very effectively.
>No cathedral of the deep, no undead settlement, no grand archives, no lothric castle?
Even the smoldering lake a neat little, classic maze.
None of those levels had good design to me. The enemy placement didn't evoke the intimidation of Dark Souls, or Demon's Souls, levels. The level design didn't wow me like those two either.

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>>378013904
Bloodborne is plagued with bad design decision like
>the hidden defense stats based on your SL.
> you easily die because of two hits and that's balanced by poor enemy movesets. The Blood starved beast has 4 moves plus a grab, the cleric beast 2-3 moves. The boss which has the most moves is Gehrman because he is a glorified humanoid with a beast form.
>Dodging in several cases is unintuitive, because some bosses can't be avoided without quicksteping IN THEIR DIRECTION
>The chalice dungeons are awful, and have some of the worst bosses I've ever seen in any video game like the undead giant.
>Vitality has literally no use for half the game.
>The build variety is quite low in BB and that's a real shame. Trick weapons being two normal dark souls weapon glued together+ a switch stance move. Arcane isn't worth your time unless you play the one weapon that made into the DLC.

All of this was made so you could play a light/roll only dark souls build. That's stupid. I've played the other souls games the BB way countless times before even playing BB. BB was a real letdown for me, no amount of lore could change that.

Also BB has some of the weakest level design in the whole series. Yarhnam and the DLC is the best they pull off, the rest is average if not bad (the nightmare with Amygdala, the swamp areas)

>DeS that high

Go replay the series. Do it now and with an open mind, nostalgia is clouding you hard fucking core buddy.

>>378025491
That was pvp bullshit and I couldn't care less. The PvE content of DaS1 was never balanced as poorly as DaS3.

I will now name BB's strongest flaw, this game makes the game shit compared to all the games.


Instability damage

>>378024730
Right, but it was poorly implemented like you said and I don't like giving "Well, you tried" excuses. It sounds cool on paper but in practice it's more like "Damn, I died. Well, I'll farm for grass and souls for a bit in 1-1 and then get back to it." Bloodborne was similar in this regard but Vials and Bullets dropped much more frequently throughout the entire game and the game is really easy overall anyway, mostly thanks to extremely forgiving i-frames in dodging.

My real problem with DeS, though, is how equipment load works against you at the worst times. Could come across a set of armor with no idea of how much it weighs and try to pick it up, only to be told that it's too heavy so you immediately drop on the ground. Hilariously, any dropped equipment disappears if you go back to the Nexus. The fact that this was left in game as is is just some troll as fuck shit by the developers. Once you've played through the game a few times, this really isn't much of an issue anymore but that first impression is certainly a rough one.

Also, DeS has, bar none, the absolute worst swamp in the entire fucking series. Holy shit, 5-2 is a goddam fucking nightmare.

>>378026135
You're wrong. I suspect you're viewing the games as action games. Stop doing that. Stop worrying about combat, weapon variety, build variety, "epic" boss battles, and all those other such things. They are a means to an end, and that end is the atmosphere and experience of the game.

These threads are the most pointless pieces of shit I've ever seen. If Bloodborne or Dark Souls 1 aren't on top you can guarantee that your opinion will be discarded right then and there. I'm entirely convinced people only like DS1 purely out of nostalgia, and they like Bloodborne because it isn't called Dark Souls: Victorian or whatever. Granted, I can't speak for Bloodborne entirely since I don't have a PS4, but >>378020397 lists a lot of problems with Dark Souls 1 and shoves them onto 2.
>that line of capra demons in the ruins
>blighttown, lower undead burg, the entire second half of the game
>THREE fucking stray demons
yet you guys praise it and ignore its faults like it's a gift from the fucking videogame god above. then you shit on 2 even though it has the same problems but fixes a lot of others, and you shit on 3 because it has a couple similar armor sets or lore elements. sure, let's ignore the fact that it's one game out of the trilogy with a majority of good bosses, because oh no it has a solaire reference it's shit. that's why all these threads are the same, because none of you will ever bother to look further and just call people defending the other games bait.
How is it you faggots value MUH ATMOSPHERE and MUH LORE more than fucking gameplay?

>>378026328
Which is the only reason I rate DaS higher than DaS3.

DaS did what DeS did but better in every regard. Story wise DeS is hardcore gutted due to time constraints, gameplay wise it feels like an alpha version or proof of concept tech demo of DaS.

>>378026328
Sounds to me like you'd rather play a point and click adventure game or a visual novel. When combat makes up more than half of the game on its own, it's important to get it right.

>>378025024
This. DaS3 is the weakest souls game by far. No character, no originality, no fucking soul. You can have the best bosses and gameplay sure; but you do everything else so pisspoor that even DaS2 has got you beat.

Fucking sequels should never have been made

>>378026601
After so much pointless bitching, I find that all Souls games are worth playing.

It's just buttmad autists, really.

>>378026238
>but in practice it's more like "Damn, I died. Well, I'll farm for grass and souls for a bit in 1-1 and then get back to it."
It depends how far you get through a level. If you grind continually you can have enough to last the rest of the game, but people will prioritise playing the new level over grinding. I think a good remedy could have been making the grass effect the equip load more. This would force you to consider how much you're taking and how it will affect you and finding items. Ideally inventory would also affect your movement, like equipment. This way you're going to want to put yourself in a position where you have the minimum of what you think you'll require. It would make for interesting choices, like choosing to lose your armour forever in favour of a new set.
>Also, DeS has, bar none, the absolute worst swamp in the entire fucking series. Holy shit, 5-2 is a goddam fucking nightmare.
It's supposed to be frustrating. It's a disgusting swamp. All the levels, I've found, try to get a different response from the player. Tgings like intimidation, claustrophobia, fear, hopelessness, and disgust.

>>378025993
You get to keep light rolls up to 70%, amnd they cost less stamina, all this to be able to keep up with the longer, quicker and more complex boss combos.
If you refuse to take advantage of these things, that is your own fault.
I easily beat all DS3 bosses using UGS roll pokes and doing a shit ton of damage.

>It doesn't show that the lands have been pulled together
But it does, it looks exactly like a bunch of tectonic plates have been pulled in together by some sort of force.
You said the art was directionless, and I used the colors to show that there is some design philosophy behind their choices.
You don't like it, you don't like it. But don't pretend like it is worse than previous games, because that is completely untrue.

>None of those levels had good design to me. The enemy placement didn't evoke the intimidation of Dark Souls, or Demon's Souls, levels.
Tell me how stonefang tunnels for example, and the enemy placements in there were in any way intimidating.
And the underground maze in Stonefang is a thousand times more bland, and more boring than the one in Smoldering lake.

Dark souls 3>demon souls>dark souls>blood borne>kings quest>dark souls 2

>>378026690
>DaS did what DeS did but better in every regard.
I wouldn't say so. They were both looking for different ends.
>Sounds to me like you'd rather play a point and click adventure game or a visual novel. When combat makes up more than half of the game on its own, it's important to get it right.
Demon's Souls got it perfectly right, I think. The simplicity of it was the goal. It is supposed to put you in a mysterious, dangerous world facing the struggle of defending yourself. This is why 2-1 enemies are resistant to physical damage, it is trying to make you feel weak and explore other avenues.

>>378026161
That was just as easy to abuse in pve. You can stack poise so you're able to easily walk through enemy attacks for that all important backstab, while still using the ninja flip ring which basically reduced your weight from 50% to 25%, and you can have 99 humanities which rendered the estus flasks completely fucking useless.
How was pve balanced again?

>>378026896
>"its suppose to be bad!"

DS1 nostalgiadrones everybody

>>378027124
God tier tastes anon

MY PREFERENCE/OPINION
DARK SOULS 1 > BLOODBORNE > DARK SOULS 2 > DEMON SOULS > DARK SOULS 3
>SCHOLAR OF THE FIRST SIN

MY PLAYORDER
DEMON SOULS > DARK SOULS 2 > DARK SOULS 1 > BLOODBORNE > DARK SOULS 3

>>378026601
>blighttown, lower undead burg, the entire second half of the game
None of those are bad except Lost Izalith and the Demon Ruins. What's your problem with Blighttown?
>let's ignore the fact that it's one game out of the trilogy with a majority of good bosses
It doesn't have good bosses, it has bosses that follow a formula of what From has come to believe is good.
>How is it you faggots value MUH ATMOSPHERE and MUH LORE more than fucking gameplay?
You mean combat? Combat isn't that important. It is just a means of establishing the atmosphere and eliciting a mental response from the player. It is purposefully kept simple and punishing of mistakes.

>>378027297
>OPINION:
Bloodborne > DaS > DaS3 > [POWERGAP] > DaS2 > DeS

>PLAY ORDER:
DaS > DeS > DaS2 > DaS3 > Bloodborne

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>>378013904

>and maybe the Dark Souls II DLC places it above Dark Souls III,

I don't know why people think DaS2's DLC is good enough to redeem it. The first pack is mediocre, the second pack is decent, the last is utter garbage. Did the stage design in the base game just set the bar so low that anything that even remotely resembles a proper video game seems amazing?

>>378027297
Opinion
DeS > DaS > BB > DaS2 > DaS3

Playorder
DaS2 > DaS1 > BB > DaS3 > DeS

Probably would have been really into this series sooner if I played DeS on release instead of last. Oh well, just what happens when you have exclusives.

>>378017731
Not him but you still haven't convinced me any of your points were real flaws.

>>378027016
>You get to keep light rolls up to 70%, amnd they cost less stamina, all this to be able to keep up with the longer, quicker and more complex boss combos.
But that isn't a good thing. It is just marginalising a different play style in favour of making the game more similar to Bloodborne. It just comes off as a poor imitation that is forced to give the bosses more damage output to compensate for shields.
>I easily beat all DS3
Everyone did.
>But it does, it looks exactly like a bunch of tectonic plates have been pulled in together by some sort of force.
No it really doesn't. If there was some kind of blending it would look more like that, but there isn't. The areas are perfectly distinct. It's just jarring.
>You said the art was directionless, and I used the colors to show that there is some design philosophy behind their choices.
But I wasn't talking about the colours, hence why I called it shallow.
>You don't like it, you don't like it. But don't pretend like it is worse than previous games, because that is completely untrue.
It's definitely worse than Bloodborne and Demon's Souls. Bloodborne uses its art very well to mimic the progression of the narrative and accentuate the dream aspect more prominently right up to the nightmare of mensis.
>Tell me how stonefang tunnels for example, and the enemy placements in there were in any way intimidating.
It was an unvaried series of tunnels. The point was that they are rarely distinguishable from one another to throw off the orientation of the player. Facing the enemies the wrong way, or getting backed up by them is intimidating considering how much damage they can do both alive and in death in enclosed spaces. You're forewarned of this, too.

>>378027510
>none of those are bad
blighttown isn't even annoying due to the toxic, it's because all you fucking do is climb ladders. lower undead burg is incredibly small, just "hey fight these 5 enemies at once or move really slowly and then face the boss and its dogs". and the second half of the game has had some shit. new londo's endless ghosts, the forced seathe death, tomb of giant's gimmick being "it's dark"
>it doesn't have good bosses
they're way better than the shit found in 1. every early-game boss only has around 2 or 3 different attacks, and the others spend all day spamming their AOE. even phase 2 Ornstein/smough just becomes an ass-slamming competition. at the very least, 3's bosses have more variety.
>combat isn't that important
>gameplay isn't important in a video game

>>378027695
No, Dark Souls III set the bar low.

Stop.

You'll never convince someone else that <their favorite souls game> is inferior to <your favorite souls game>

It's never going to happen

stop with these discussions

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>>378013904
DeS ≥ BB > DaS >>> DaS3 >>>>> DaS2

>>378013904
>>>378016343
>>little to no variety in builds
>That was the point. It was done to avoid the poor balancing of games like Dark Souls where certain playstyles made the game a breeze and killed the atmosphere.


I called some other moron for how STUPID this argument is. The idea that having less options equals better because people can make good builds is horrendously moronic.

Want to know what happened? A mod banned me for a month for "instigating a flame war".

A fucking mod banned me for making fun of a BB fanboy.

Fuck this place.

Hollow Knight >Bloodborne > Dark Souls 1 > Dark Souls 2 > Demon's Souls > Lords of the Fallen > Nioh > Salt and Sanctuary > Dark Maus > Slashy Souls > The Surge > Dark souls III

>>378028178
>it's because all you fucking do is climb ladders
That's not all you do. The descent into Blighttown from the depths is supposed to precarious, and the poison is your main enemy. They were clearly trying to make a sort of maze where the player would feel panic from the poison or toxic and be punished for rushing by the potential swarms of enemies.
>lower undead burg is incredibly small
Not really a criticism.
>just "hey fight these 5 enemies at once or move really slowly and then face the boss and its dogs"
The boss is the reason that it is closed off, and the reason there is fire down there and undead with torches. Gives you a pretty strong clue to use the charcoal pine resin available from the merchant through the shortcut. I think it serves it's purpose well and, though the Capra Demon fight can be unfair, I think it does what it is supposed to do and can't fault it beyond the arena being a potentially poor design choice, though that only applies to the entrance.
>new londo's endless ghosts
They aren't endless.
>the forced seathe death
I agree, I think that is poor. Would have been better done in a scene and not cost the player their souls.
>tomb of giant's gimmick being "it's dark"
I like the fact that it's dark. I wish more areas use this.
>combat isn't that important
>gameplay isn't important in a video game
Maybe you should just stick to action games. Dark Souls is more about the experience than making a game about action.
>>378028329
Maybe it's because you're misrepresenting arguments and not formulating any of your own while being unnecessarily insulting.

>>378013904
>DaSIII behind DaS

Well done OP you've negated your argument before you've even begun. Only a nostalgia fag would ever place them in that order, there is no objective reason to think otherwise. DaS coming first in no way means it's a superior game. It's incomplete, has total gimmick areas, many bugs, a shoddy fucking port, terrible covenant system, poor online capability, very basic boss mechanics and terrible balance.

>>378029031
Dark Souls III is the weakest souls game to date, anyone that disagrees is someone who obviously started with BB or DS3.

>>378027695
>cherrypicking this hard

>>378029031
Combatfags thing III is great, but I don't take the opinions of children seriously.

>>378028123
>It is just marginalising a different play style in favour of making the game more similar to Bloodborne
Which play style are they marginalizing? The stack poise and blindly smash your enemies with the biggest weapon you have, while never getting staggered, using one of your 99 humanities to heal up and never having to turn on your brain?
You can still use heavy armor, you can still use a shield, and now it's even easier for you to benefit from a fast roll even with heavy equipment.

>Everyone did.
If you easily beat DS3 with a heavy weapon then what are you complaining about?

>No it really doesn't.
It really does.

>blending
Either you'll have structures where they don't make sense and they don;'t belong, and I don't see why you'd think this would make it better. Or the areas would look extremely similar because they've "blended" together. either way it's a dumb idea.

There is nothing intimidating about fighting a slow ass bug that has only one attack that is easily avoided by walking back before proceeding to empty your stamina on it. Repeat 10 times until it's dead, and repeat that 7 times because there are like 5-7 of those assholes throughout the level. I call that tedium.

And BB is better than 3 that is literally what I said in my first post. None of the other Souls games surpass it though.

>>378029104
>>378029185
yet you'll have no argument to back that up, sad!

>>378029104
2 is the weakest

>>378028983
Yes because that is definitely deserving of a 4chan wide month ban.

Dumbass

>>378013904
>Bloodborne = Dark Souls = Demon's Souls = Dark Souls III = Dark Souls II
its all the same game, just feels like different levels

>>378029141

It's a fucking third of the content you get with the crown of the ivory king. It's a giant, empty snowfield with a single respawning enemy and ends in a boss you already fought x2. People paid extra for an area where slogging through it probably takes more effort than the devs put into create it.

>>378029031
>It's incomplete
Yup every game is
>has total gimmick areas
all games have this
>many bugs
not exclusive to ds1 fuckboy, or did you like to forget about boss invasions, soul duping, tumblebuffing, handmaiden's dagger/warbanner buffing, quakestone hammer ignoring resistances and etc?
>a shoddy fucking port
dsfix exists
>terrible covenant system
at least their covenants works, mister i have to spend 50 hours farming ears off silver knights because summons dont work
>poor online capability
not exclusive to das1, in fact das2 is still king in regards to mechanics
>very basic boss mechanics
oh no the second game that was designed around strategy and not twitch reaction speed is bad because the bosses don't attack instantly and have 10 hit combos
>terrible balance.
Anri dominated PvE until AoA
CCS dominated pvp for the entire year of DaS3

>>378029840
das2 is still king in regards to netcode, not mechanics

>>378029356
>Which play style are they marginalizing?
As I said, the conservative approach. Which is more than just equipment, it is an actual playstyle. But you have to strawman that and talk it down because it isn't to your taste. While I could call your playstyle mere rolling and exploiting invincibility.
>If you easily beat DS3 with a heavy weapon then what are you complaining about?
The poor choice of Bloodborne style enemies and bosses in a Dark Souls game.
>Either you'll have structures where they don't make sense and they don;'t belong, and I don't see why you'd think this would make it better. Or the areas would look extremely similar because they've "blended" together. either way it's a dumb idea.
That's not what the blending is referring to, but I suspect you know that considering how you've shown a penchant for misrepresenting arguments. I'm referring to the points at which a level ends, as I previously stated. The levels end abruptly in design, whereas the point of worlds merging could be shown much better by showing them blending together, in the process of merging. The only one that even tries to do something like this is Irithyll and Anor Londo, which is only evident because Anor Londo is a throwback.
>There is nothing intimidating about fighting a slow ass bug that has only one attack that is easily avoided by walking back before proceeding to empty your stamina on it. Repeat 10 times until it's dead, and repeat that 7 times because there are like 5-7 of those assholes throughout the level. I call that tedium.
To someone who has played the game and knows how it works. But that could be said of all enemies once you know exactly what they do and how they work.
>And BB is better than 3 that is literally what I said in my first post. None of the other Souls games surpass it though.
Don't end your sentences with "though", that isn't how it works. You're thinking of "however".

>>378029559
I'd say so. We don't need people like you around. Go back to /b/.

>>378029559
>Dumbass
Is something wrong anon? Do you want to talk about it?

>>378029031
Two red flags to never take someone's opinion seriously. 1. They prioritize the combat of a Souls game. 2. They prioritize the online play of a souls game.

>>378030079
Rolling still demands timing, and a lot of boss combos are specifically designed to catch panic rolling.
That's way more than what can be said for abusing poise in previous games.

>The levels end abruptly in design, whereas the point of worlds merging could be shown much better by showing them blending together, in the process of merging
This is fact in all Souls games. And if that's waht you mean by "merging" tan there is that. Think About Irithyll, its dungeons and the Profaned capital, though.

And those giant bugs were never intimidating, the first time I fought them it was tedious, and the last time I fought them before DS3 release, they were still tedious.

>>378030786
Not the guy you're replying to, but due to how lenient the rolls are in DS3, I found it to be the easiest game of the franchise to SL1. Also that Irithyll example is your only example of cohesion in the game. DS3 felt more "Video Gamey' to me then all the others, even more than DeS which had literal levels.

>>378030786
>Rolling still demands timing, and a lot of boss combos are specifically designed to catch panic rolling.
They don't require much timing, considering how much invincibility you get from them.
>This is fact in all Souls games
Okay, but they weren't going for the same thing, were they?
>And those giant bugs were never intimidating, the first time I fought them it was tedious, and the last time I fought them before DS3 release, they were still tedious.
I think you just have a short attention span, which explains why your favourites are BB and III.

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>There's unique shooting animations for shooting after a forward roll, sidestep or back dodge
>There's three different animations for rolling out of being knocked down depending on how late you do it
>Every weapon has unique running lights and heavys, backstep and sidestep attacks, and charge attacks have a different animation depending on how long you charge them
God I love how bloodborne looks and feels

>>378031028
There are more examples, like going from Farron Keep to the Cathedral and that area in between them.

>>378031087
And we finally get to the insults. That's my queue to end this "conversation".

>>378021726
>Dark Souls 2 is the only game where you don't have to visit a hub to smith/level/manage equiptment.
That's a straight up fucking lie, you need to visit Shannalotte to level up one of two NPC blacksmiths is in Majula
Meanwhile in dark souls 1 you can level up, use the bottomless box and weapon/armour smithkits at any bonfire
Fucking dark souls 2 fags and their selective memory

>>378031441
Where's the insult?

>>378031508
ds1 is the only game that lets you level/item manage at the bonfire

>>378028983
it's impossible to rush through blighttown because you spend all your time climbing fucking ladders.
lower burg being small is dumb for the same reason the boss arena is dumb. there's such little space to move around, you're forced to just move slowly and lure the enemies out or get fucked from all corners. that's a problem with a lot of areas from 1, actually. there are so many narrow corridors with 2+ enemies that it turns from learning to git gud to just annoying.
new londo's ghosts might not be endless either but they're damn well near it. and the dark gimmick is fine, but not when it's the only thing an area relies upon.

and what the fuck is this "it's about the experience" shit? when is gameplay not defined as part of the experience?
>it's not an action game
its genre fucking everywhere is "action-RPG". it's a videogame. it's meant to be played, not to be "experienced" like fucking gone home. am i wrong? is DARK SOULS: THE VIDEO GAME not a video game?

>>378031295
>There's 40 weapons in Bloodborne
>there's one animation of visceral attacks

staggering

>>378031723
>it's impossible to rush through blighttown because you spend all your time climbing fucking ladders.
hahaha
hahah h aha
HAH AH AHA

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>>378031723
>it's impossible to rush through blighttown because you spend all your time climbing fucking ladders.

>>378032313
who the fuck is going to do that on their first playthrough

I personally prefer ds2 to 3 because it provideds a greater deal of variety in terms of weapons and armor as well as some awesome bosses. That being said, it's still the second worst in my opinion due to areas like earthen peak and other really lazy areas

>>378031723
>it's impossible to rush through blighttown because you spend all your time climbing fucking ladders.
Climbing down ladders is very quick. Hence why the enemies climb ladders as well, to stop you from being able to do that.
>you're forced to just move slowly and lure the enemies out or get fucked from all corners.
Is patience hard to you? The point of much of the game is not to rush in, but to strategise.
>that's a problem with a lot of areas from 1, actually. there are so many narrow corridors with 2+ enemies that it turns from learning to git gud to just annoying.
I don't think there's anything like that that has ever caused me frustration. What are you referring to in particular?
>new londo's ghosts might not be endless either but they're damn well near it.
No. Not even close. You can see them all and they won't be hard to kill.
>and the dark gimmick is fine, but not when it's the only thing an area relies upon.
What do you mean "relies upon"?
>and what the fuck is this "it's about the experience" shit? when is gameplay not defined as part of the experience?
No, I said combat isn't the most important part of forming the experience of the game.

>dodge boss attack while staying at mid range
>fire as soon as the roll end
>boss immediately starts coming at me and hits me before i can roll out of the bow's firing animation
Literally why even try to play ranged as anything other than a shitty backup weapon or pulling tool in DS3? Fuck this stupid shit. Even DS1 was better about this.

>>378031910
>there's one weapon that does viscerals in bloodborne
>your fist

>>378032501
>climbing down ladders is quick
climbing up them isn't. and it's still a fucking bore to go from fighting to ladder to fighting to ladder again.
>is patience hard to you
see above. sure, i could spend the whole game just inching my way forward, luring enemies one by one. but that's fucking boring, and you see endless shit being thrown as soon as shields are brought up.
>i don't think there's anything like that that has ever caused me frustration
i wasn't referring to how frustrating it was, just that it's fucking everywhere. undead parish has the corridors both before and inside the church, anor londo has those archers, the painted world has the under-the-well skeleton wheels, and once you get into the sewers then that's all the depths has to offer.
>the ghosts
you seem to think i'm referring to how hard they are. i'm talking about how there's so fucking many of them. plus they can just move through walls and you need to apply the transient curse to hit them. they might not be incredibly difficult but they're annoying as dick.
>what do you mean "relies upon"?
i might just have been exaggerating there, but most of the good of tomb of the giants comes from its dark gimmick. in any video where they turn on the lights it just looks like a cave with some pitfalls here and there.
>combat isn't the most important part
then what is? i honestly want to know, because as much as I've tried to get into DS1 i just couldn't find a reason to stay interested. but please, don't bother if it has anything to do with "interconnectivity" or "experiencing the world for the first time". I've never given a shit of the former outside of "oh shit, that's pretty neat how that goes to there from here" and the latter would just confirm my theory that the only reason you guys hate 2 and 3 is because they're not exactly like 1.

>>378034769
>climbing up them isn't. and it's still a fucking bore to go from fighting to ladder to fighting to ladder again.
It's really not that bad.
>see above. sure, i could spend the whole game just inching my way forward, luring enemies one by one. but that's fucking boring, and you see endless shit being thrown as soon as shields are brought up.
A prominent aspect of Dark Souls is patience. Learn it.
>i wasn't referring to how frustrating it was, just that it's fucking everywhere. undead parish has the corridors both before and inside the church, anor londo has those archers, the painted world has the under-the-well skeleton wheels, and once you get into the sewers then that's all the depths has to offer.
Weren't you talking about narrow corridors? Your examples have little to do with one another.
>i'm talking about how there's so fucking many of them
There aren't that many. Maybe just kill some before you attack the screaming ones.
>i might just have been exaggerating there, but most of the good of tomb of the giants comes from its dark gimmick. in any video where they turn on the lights it just looks like a cave with some pitfalls here and there.
That's because it is. The point is that it's dark, there are enemies and lots of holes, so be careful.
>then what is?
It's good because, especially in the early game, it perfectly executes the goal of creating an oppressive atmosphere for the player, that is to be overcome. It forces players into situations with ever increasing gravity before culminating in the gargoyle fight. It teaches the mechanics of the game as well as the way to play and elicits emotional and mental responses from the players, while drawing them further into the world.

>>378029704
More like 1/5

>>378015969
Souls games are far more than just iterations on the base combat. DeS is unrefined sure but the experience of exploring its world is far more engaging than DaS3, I'll take that over improvements to frame rate and combat any day.

>main game

screw that show me the important stuff, which is best dlc?

>>378035618
i'll quit arguing about the ladders and the tomb since it's probably just personal preference when it comes down to it, and i guess you have a point with the ghosts. but
>a game where you're supposed to fight things and overcome challenges
>it's not about fighting, it's about patience
>learn to be okay with luring one enemy at a time for 20 hours and then beating the game
>you'll probably disregard all of these points and just say "lol u have add fgt"
and what do you mean none of my examples are similar? i'll give you the depths i guess, it's smaller than most areas but not exactly the same amount of narrow. but anor londo archers are still shooting at you on a tiny-ass pole, and if you don't call the painted world sewers narrow then i don't know what you would.
>it creates an oppressive atmosphere for the player that is to be overcome
in all honesty bloodborne does a way better job at that, and i only played up to the cleric beast on it. and you shouldn't have atmosphere as your main reason for liking a game. maybe if it was a horror game, but not a medieval, go and kill everyone before or after they turn into zombies game.

>>378020758
>>378020893
Fucking stupid idiots haven't played the game since launch. Full STR+VIT+POISE is the new DS3 easy mode. Dex sucks now.

>>378013904
correct.

>>378037467
>learn to be okay with luring one enemy at a time for 20 hours and then beating the game
Stop over reacting. This is ridiculous. Grow up.
>but anor londo archers are still shooting at you on a tiny-ass pole, and if you don't call the painted world sewers narrow then i don't know what you would.
You were talking about multiple enemies in narrow corridors, the archers shoot at you while you cross a narrow walkway, they're effectively obstacles. And in the painted world you won't fight more than one at a time if you're careful in the narrow part.

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I just obtained Bloodborne. What am I in for? Never played a Souls game before.

>tfw 9Gb update

>>378030786
And that's why I fucking hate DS3 bosses with a passion. If I had a dollar for every time a DS3 boss had a wind up but then the attack came out instantly so fuck you for not knowing the timing ahead of time, or when a boss delayed an attack so that if you rolled when you saw him twitching you'd be screwed, or when a boss had a combo that looks like it ended but nope it actually didn't, or when a boss' combo is almost impossible to space out because of bullshit long reach, or when I got hitboxed, I'd have at least a hundred.

I unironically felt less frustrated fighting Bed of fucking Chaos than I did several bosses in 3 because at least I could write off BoC as the result of time constraints. They fucking knew what they were doing with 3's bosses.

>>378021698
Probably not much

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I'll never ever understand how people think demon souls is good.

Literally if it wasn't the first game no one would praise it as much.

>>378015652
Cant read

>>378013904
Pretty much, Bloodborne gathers what FROM learnt from DeS and DaS and ups it to a different level with more fluid combat, solid level atmosphere and navigation, however I still very much prefer leveling up by bonfire.

DS2 was a half mistake half step in the right direction, however the bad things overwhelmed the good changes and I do wish it could be revisited and revamped to Bloodborne levels, but there's too much to fix when it comes to enemy placement, map design, S O U L M E M O R Y and also the character models just look so fucking ugly.

>>378038256
Hands down the best single player experience you could ever hope for in a souls game. Don't worry about any of the weapons you like being shit because they're all good.

Little to no reason to do PvP

>>378038763
Dark Souls 2 is an entire game of cool ideas implemented poorly

Please free the power stance mechanic from the grasp of Dark Souls 2

>>378038075
>lmao he finds a game boring xD if u can't enjoy something I enjoy ur so underage and dumb
>you said narrow corridors not walkways btfo
ok

>>378038779
I don't know anything about Souls or BB, stayed out of all discussions on purpose (except those shitposting ones when the game was still called Project Beast and was leaked here), hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised going in completely blind.

>Little to no reason to do PvP
Good, because I'm not paying for PS+.

>>378013904
DS1>DS2>DS3=BB>DeS

>>378038586
I think the people who don't think Demon's Souls is great simply don't understand what makes Souls games great.

>>378013904
Why do bloodborne fags always feel the need to constantly post threads no one cares.

>>378038981
You're too childish to even talk to. You take everything to extreme levels and just act like a fool. I'm telling you you're approaching the gamma wrong and you need to be more clear in your arguments.

>>378039130
Good level design and boss fights as well as unique weapons are not apparent in Demon souls enough, not to mention the weakest OST

>>378039220
I miss that time /v/ was combined with /int/

It was the greatest proof ever that the people who like Bloodborne far outweigh people like you

>>378038896
>no more dual wielding power stancing chicken drumsticks with 99 STR
>weapons that could direct 180, even 270 degrees after initiating a running R1
>poking twice with a spear and then jumping attack dragon tooth for a guaranteed kill no more

Gotta say I had more fun in DS2 PvP than in DS1 by a large margin, not saying DS1 PvP wasn't entertaining but it has great flaws, for instance if you don't run GMB then you get bodied by pursuers and dark bead, DS2 had dark resistance shields infsueable to 100 percent.

And while I don't agree with the changes to weapon buffs I can also understand why they're not as strong as before.

To top it off connecting to another invading player felt much faster and with less failures.

>>378039434
The level design is the best in the series by far and the bosses outside of 5-1 and 5-2 are all very good. The soundtrack is better than II and III at least.

>>378017025
>This $400 exclusive with no replay value was DESIGNED to be like that, that's the point!
>"Another play through"
>"I don't think so, no argument for you though lol"
Fucking christ what a retarded post.

Dark Souls 3
>4 hours long
>only 8 unique bosses
>many useless weapons, only 5 of which are viable
>magic is useless
>no character build variety
>completely linear world
>bland level design with grey everywhere
>broken pvp system
>incredibly easy, every boss can be cheesed with R1 spam

Bloodborne:
>50+ hours long
>30 unique bosses (40 with the DLC)
>25 unique weapons, all viable, with 3 different movesets for each one
>deep magic system with powerful spells
>huge build variety, no two characters will ever be the same
>huge world with several branching paths and multiple endings depending on which path you choose
>beautiful level design with vibrant colors
>fully functional and balanced pvp system
>challenging bosses that can't be cheesed

It's obvious that Bloodborne is the superior game.

>>378039637
Alright buddy, lets not go that far.

>>378039712
Good response.

>>378039485
Didn't say I don't like it I just don't need to put it up on a pedestal like you mouth breathers.

>>378025993

You are a nostalgia cucked son of a whore. DaS3 has better level design than DeS and DaS. It has vastly superior bosses too. Kys nigger.

BB > DAS3 > DAS > DAS2 > DES

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>>378039691
You guys are just mixing and matching the pluses and minuses of souls games now

I can't tell who's trolling who anymore

>>378039830
Combatfags will never understand the series.

DS1 to O&S > SotFS > BB > DS1 post O&S >> DS3 >>> Orig DS2

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>>378019732
>muh hitboxes
Every souls game has shit hitboxes in some areas and good hitboxes in another. End this meme that DS2's are somehow of a lower quality.

>>378039786
>Level Design is the best in the series
Bloodborne
>Bosses are all very good
they're okay, better than Dark Souls 2 anyway
>Soundtrack is better than 2
obviously
>Soundtrack is better than 3
No.

>>378039928
>Learning ebrietas shitcharge in chalice
>wishing i was back in DS2
Least the shitty firedog you can parry.

>>378039637
>The level design is the best in the series by far

Don't delude yourself.

Only tower of latria was well designed and one of their bests. Rest were garbage.

And no majority of the bosses were basic shit with 2-3 attack moves with terrible braindead programming AI and too many relied on a simple gimmick to cripple them. The only boss that I actually enjoyed was old monk with online on.

>>378039830
If they're so superior why did I have far less fun fighting them?

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>>378039691
4hrs nigga you ain't even trying

>>378040103
This.

How many fucking bosses in des was weak to fire again?

>>378022338
The thing about Smouldering Lake that pissed me off the most was the fact that nothing fucking happens after you turn of the Ballista. No bonfire, no extra item, nothing. There wasn't even a path leading elsewhere, it was a dead end that forced you to homeward bone out.
And considering you can just run past the worm into the Old Demon King fight, there's absolutely no reason to go up the ladder past Tsorig/that black knight to get to the Ballista.

>>378040057
>Bloodborne
No. Maybe second, but DeS is so far ahead.
>they're okay, better than Dark Souls 2 anyway
How are you judging this?
>>378040103
The bosses aren't about how many moves it can do or how difficult it is.

>>378040108
probably because you've been on the cancerous souls meme train for 5 years and you've grinded thme far too much. If DaSIII came out in 2011 /v/ would be singing its praises, you'd get attacked by a horde of angry fat fucks for even suggesting a criticism.

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>>378021726

>>378039637
>soundtrack
>better than three
compare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xggWJLgN-Es
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9dNrmGD7mU

to demon soul's soundtrack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTT4di20FtU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSY-c1hhtBM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U211FYLI0oo

demon souls may have a more varied soundtrack but the quality of the songs is garbage
only good songs on the soundtrack are Maiden Astraea and Phalanx

>>378025752
What happened is that you refuse to use boss weaknesses against them.All you need are the 2 damage rings, 40 int and 10 faith and you're more than good for the entire game.

>>378040639
I prefer Demon's Souls greatly.

>>378040342
>The bosses aren't about how many moves it can do or how difficult it is.

Listen nigga.

When you base your whole entire level to lead to the boss. They have to be engaging in their fight to justify all the shit you went through to face them. I don't enjoy reaching a boss to see him do the same pathetic shit. People love to confuse difficulty with entertainment.

Like fuck this garbage trashhttps://youtu.be/9a0O5m7YWL0

>>378017025
>Game lacks variety
>It's a feature!

>>378040342
>How are you judging this
The bosses in Demon's Souls aren't that interesting. You beat Dark Souls II by a mile because at least Demon's Souls bosses are cool to fight and offer a decent amount of challenge.

>Old Hero
>Phalanx
>Storm King
There are definitely some cool fights in Demon's Souls, but overall the majority of the franchise just has better bosses

>>378040817
Okay, nigger. You don't like Adjudicator, while I think it's an interesting boss. It has a good design, good back story, and I like the arena. I don't think there's anything wrong with Adjudicator.

>>378040845
They're not about being challenging. You missed the point completely.

>>378039637
>bosses are very good

The only memorable boss in the entire game is Allant.

>>378041105
>Adjudicator
>Good design
Fucking christ you are delusional. It looked retarded and its ost sounded like terrible midi shit.

>>378040824
Bloodborne has plenty of Variety. It just doesn't lie to you about how many weapons it has by jamming 300 filler weapons that no one in their right mind would use into the game. Everything in Bloodborne is usable.

You are correct when it comes to stuff like magic, because the main focus of the game is to use melee weapons in one way or another. Bloodtinge builds are a lot of fun, but it's no sorcery build, just like the ayylmao builds are no miracle builds, but Bloodborne has just as much true weapon variety as the rest

>>378039637
>DeS bosses and soundtracks
>Better than any other game in the series
No. The only good boss+osts were Astraea and Firelurker.

DeS sucks and belongs in last place

>>378013904
I agree 100%

>>378041227
I remembered all of them. Only leechmonger and dirty colossus are poor, I'd say.
>>378041238
It wasn't designed to look tough or edgy.

>>378041280
Anything is viable in Dark Souls, even your fists or a broken straight sword. Crippling variety for the sake of streamlining is the number one cause of lost replay value because once you've done 5 playthroughs of Bloodborne with each weapon you've got nothing more to play with.

>>378041183
>Bosses in a Souls game shouldn't be challenging

Listen bud, I like Demon's Souls too. I've played through it several times. But you need to stop being a retard

>>378040543
>people shit on DaS2 for this but not 3

Explain.

>>378041105
Utter garbage gimmick boss that can hit you through 5 feet of wall, glad they abandoned such bad design in DS1 and DS2

>>378041420
Yet nobody said tough and edgy was the only mark of a good boss either. Adjudifatass is goofy shit and I don't know why you keep defending it.

>>378041458
You "prepare to die" combatfags are the worst. You're the reason we got shit like Dark Souls II and III.

>>378041498
No substance to this post.
>>378041596
Why is "goofy" automatically bad?

>>378013904
I enjoyed BB but it's too easy compared to Dark Souls 1-3. You get godly dodging ability, blood vials are fast to use, and you get 20 of them right from the get go. Plus grinding chalices is boring and a chore, yet necessary on virtually any build.

>>378013904
For me it's Dark Souls > Bloodborne > Demon's Souls. I have not played 2 or 3.

While Bloodborne makes some improvements over DaS (better second half mainly), the lack of variety is really crippling, and it takes some annoying steps backwards. Estus (while not 100% perfect) was a great solution for DeS's grass spam problem, and Bloodborne brought it back for some reason. It's like Miyazaki doesn't understand how his own games work, and/or couldn't come up with a good reason why blood would be replenishable. Lanterns are terrible compared to bonfires, can't level/repair/upgrade/warp/etc, it only takes you back to the hub. Does Miyazaki just have a huge soft spot for DeS? I don't hate the doll but she's no Maiden in Black and leveling at bonfires is way more convenient.

Also chalice dungeons are just straight up dogshit and I don't know what the fuck Miyazaki was thinking. In my opinion they're one of the worst things ever put into the series, not merely from a mechanical level but from a conceptual one, they spit on what makes the series great to begin with.

Having said that Bloodborne has some top tier atmosphere which still makes it a pretty good game. Probably an 8/10, -1 for some mechanical flaws and another -1 just for chalice dungeons.

>>378041759
Just fuck off idiot, nobody cares.

>>378041450
>anything is viable in Dark Souls

You're broadening what it means to be viable in these games to help you with your argument. If you want to play through the game with a shit weapon like a retard, fine, but that doesn't mean you should be doing that when there are better weapons available. Each type of weapon in a Souls game has an arguably best weapon, and using a worse weapon of that weapon type absolutely does not mean you get to use it as an argument for more variety.

>>378013904
Dark Souls 3 > Dark Souls > Bloodborne > Demon's Souls > Dark Souls 2

>>378041829
Combatfags, everyone.

>>378041183
No, you're missing the point.

The series isn't 100% story, 100% atmosphere, 100% gameplay, any of those.

The attraction is that it's a mix of them, it's a series that has all those aspects and does them really well. It's got an interesting world with a fun and exciting way of discovering lore in the sense that there's no exposition, it's got challenging and unforgiving gameplay that makes you stay on your toes, and it's got great atmospheric feel and good level design.

DeS does most of these the worst in the series. It's extremely linear, it's very easy, its lore feels pretty narrow and the gameplay is clunky at best. Good atmosphere though.

>>378042434
I said it isn't meant to be challenging, which is true. All things serve the atmosphere, but they aren't equal. Combat is a fairly small part of the game, it isn't very important. Whereas level design and art style are very important.

>>378042763
>Combat is a fairly small part of the game

I'm not even following this conversation but if you're talking about DeS (or any Souls game period) you're dead wrong. Like so incredibly wrong it's baffling.

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>>378042434
>It's extremely linear

Retards like you need to learn what this word means because DeS is probably the least linear game in the franchise while DaS3 is by far the worst in this regard.

Areas being physically connected to one another =/= non-linearity.

>>378043601
>you can choose to do a late stage first, trivializing the stages before it if you want to

>>378043867
That would be Dark Souls with the master key.

DeS never really had this issue.

>>378043987
But it does, it's just not as obvious because the game is trivial already

>>378043601
Not him but while you can visit the areas in any order, the actual design of the levels is very linear, and the areas aren't interconnected like in DaS.

>>378041105
>It has a good design
>boss can hit you through several layers of walls
>boss had a literal exploit blatantly on his stomach saying please hit me there

Oh not to mention when you're infront of him he does the same 2 moves, this is pathetic damage controlling at best

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>>378044257
>the actual design of the levels is very linear

They're really no more linear than any other Souls game. Pretty sure 2-2 is the only level in a Souls game where there's 2 different paths available from the start of the area.

>and the areas aren't interconnected like in DaS.

Areas being physically connected to one another =/= non-linearity.

>>378043601
>he least linear game in the franchise while DaS3 is by far the worst in this regard.

>load up a level in Des
>there is one and only one straight path to the boss
>you fight every boss in the level in order instead of usual das where it's dependent on you

Fuck off, most linear souls

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>>378044804
>They're really no more linear than any other Souls game.

Get real, not one level in des like depths where there's multiple paths to the boss in a level

>>378013904
DeS = DaS > Bloodborne > Dark Souls III > Dark Souls II

This is the only true order.

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Bloodborne > Demon's Souls > Irrelevant > Forgettable

BB is one of my favourite but games but fuck me the /v/ fanbase is obnoxious
it has plenty of flaws

>>378045420
Dark Souls II last is literally the only thing you got right.

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>ranking things above BB

Contrarian

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>>378045065
>Get real, not one level in des like depths where there's multiple paths to the boss in a level

Nigga I just named 2-2 which lets you do exactly that.

>>378021726
I bought Demon's Souls on launch on PS3 because of the drought and loved it.

BB>DaS>DeS=DSIII>DSII
Liked them all but DaSII feels like the worst by a large margin

DaSIII has better boss fights than DeS, but DeS has better moments

>>378013904
Bull fucking shit.

Dark Souls > Dark Souls III > Demon's Souls > Bloodborne > Dark Souls II

DaS > BB = DaS3 >>>>>>>> DaS2
haven't played DeS but I imagine it would be just below BB/DaS3

>>378044816
>you fight every boss in the level in order

False. You can kill 4-3 boss before killing 2 -1 boss for example.

Fuck off pleb.

>>378045740
But the boss fight for idol is literally in one narrow direction though where the player gets invaded

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>>378046341
2-2 is Stonefang Tunnel

>>378046145
>You can kill 4-3 boss before killing 2 -1 boss for example.

>in the level

See you can't read.

In each level with 4 bosses typically every fight goes the same exact order.

World 1

Slug>Tower Knight>Penetrator>Allant

World 2
Spider>Flame Lurker>Dragon trash

World 3
Idol>Man Eater>Old Monk

World 4
Adjudicator>Blind hero boss>Storm King

World 5

Leechtrash>Dirty Colossus>Astrea

Once you're inside each level that's the order you're forced to fight in except Allant since he's kinda locked out for a while

In das or even BB people can actually unknowingly skip a boss in the level they're in and meet another boss.

>>378045689
>Not ranking things above BB
Pony

>>378046527
Oh, remember that. Boy i hated trying to platform and die off in the pit and fuck those flies.

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>>378013904
BB > DeS > DS2 > DS > DS3
ofc.

>>378047461
Sonybro/10

>Linear leveldesign
DS1 wins there.
It has the most open world and its clever designs especially in the first half gives you options.
DS2 gives you options as well but it somewhat railroads you harder and the endgame is clearly linear.
Bloodborne is third. It's more linear than DS2 and DS1 but the order in which you kill the bosses is still fairly open to you after you killed like the first 1-2 bosses.
Dark Souls 3 is the most linear.
Pretty much every playthrough is the same here and stuff like killing Dancer early doesn't matter much.
Demon Souls is hard to judge because you can just play the levels in whatever order you like it. Hard to compare it to the rest but i would definitely not say its linear.

>Replayablity
Dark Souls 2 wins here because its the only game with actual NG+ cointent.
It also has the best PvP and netcode and offers a shitload of build-options. Pretty much everything works and the world design gives you the option to start your build early on.
Dark Souls 1 comes second.
Its world design allows you to re-explore it (maybe with the master key) and find even more stuff you might have missed.
Bloodborne comes third with it having a fairly weak PvP but overall very enjoyable PvE experience which simply is worth another go.
DaS3 has the least amount of replayablity with every playthrough being the same and the only bonus being more rings. And while a few bosses are top tier - The game doesn't really offer more to them besides ''Hey i liked it lets fight it again''
Demon Souls design lets you replay it again in another order but overall there isn't much of a reason to do so.

>The Flaws
DS1 suffers from a weak second half, bad PvP and bad ports/console versions
DS2 suffers from mediocre PvE, some ugly designs and lack of actual outstanding moments
DS3 suffers from its linearity, broken covenants and PvP limitations
BB suffers from its dragged out PvP fights and lack of weapons
DeS suffers from it being dated

>>378013904
Agreed, except DaS2 > DaS3

Sloppy new ideas > sloppy fanservice

Literally every level, weapon and enemy in DaS3 is a rehash of something done better in its predecessors. It brings nothing new to the table.

>>378017889

It's exactly why these games are considered great by about 90% of the players. You enjoying the game for the atmosphere doesn't make it the reason it's considered great.

That's like someone playing street fighter and saying it's praised for its art style because they enjoy it. It's flat out wrong.

>>378013904

DS3 > DS > DS 2 > BB

Didn't play Demon Souls.

>>378021726
Started with Bloodborne, easily most overrated and it gets stale after the third play through

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3MB, 300x252px

>>378013904
>Bloodborne better than DaS1

>>378047972
>dated
this argument is always fucking stupid, you can wave anything off by saying it's dated

desu i think what theyd really need to do to improve pvp is speed up the process youve got to walk over to the area where people might be, burn an effigy or whatever to be human, and then finally use your pvp item and then the game will connect to someone else

what they should have done is expedite the process and make the red eye orb something you could toggle on and off, human or not, and invade the first person it can find within your soul level regardless of where they are

something they should have done to improve pve co op is have a room that is a gallery of all the bosses that youve beaten and let you place a sign down that would be channeled to the boss location of your choice, similar to the gravestone rooms in sotfs, also they should let you place multiple signs and have them persist while traveling so you can do other shit while you wait for someone to call you in

>>378047461
Patrician

>>378050190
You could say its basic.

DaS doesn't have good PvP but it was better than the endless healing fest with garbage netcode in DeS

And the PvE felt pretty experimental as well with a few bosses being pretty shitty/gimmick

DS > BB > DS3 > DeS > DS2

Better

>>378050617
So you're saying it's not as good as the other because it's experimental and not old? Why not just use unrefined? It doesn't get worse because it's old

>>378050945
It being the first is the reason why its unrefined and why DaS3 has overall the highest number of good bosses.

From only got better over time. Like everyone else does get better over time if they keep doing the same thing over and over again.

So yeah. Let's call it experimental.
The biggest flaw of DeS is that its the first of its kind which means overall Fromsoft lacked experience with it.

Lots of people who love dark souls love it for the defensive options. Most games pin you into a certain defensive toolset but dark souls have players options (parry, block, dodge, range) which was part of what made the souls games special. Losing that block in bloodborne and forcing players to either dodge or r1 attack to regain life narrows that toolkit again. Though intentional, lots of souls players rejected not having that safe shield they'd gotten used to.