>Decided to try out WOW >Roll Warlock >No mobs can

>retail

its a 12 year old game that just switched developers
it will take awhile for it to be decent again

>>377929547
Oh boy another babby who thinks vanilla WoW was in any way challenging.

Thanks for killing the genre.

>>377929282
Don't bother with WoW clones if you played EQ & AC. The genre is dead. Your best bet are a few niche projects like Pantheon, Camelot Unchained, etc that will probably die in development but if succeed will be worth checking out.

>>377930835
I actually ended up backing Pantheon. First game I've ever done that for.

It was probably foolish of me, but I couldn't help myself especially after watching the most recent livestream. The gameplay looked spot on for what I've been missing granted the animations were still a bit wonky, but they are getting better and the game is still in pre alpha.

And then! ...
YOU MUST PAY EVERY MONTH TO PLAY!

Everything good about the game has been removed for the sake of >convenience
Playing a private server will give a better experience.
And thats with all the sketchy bullshit that comes with private servers. But at least you arent giving Activision more money.

>>377931779

>Blizz: oh no! looks like you joined one of the 50 empty servers we have and wont merge together! dont worry! you can just character transfer for $25!
>Blizz: woops! looks like you joined a server that while full, has a 50 to 1 ratio of horde to alliance, and you picked alliance. That will be another $25 to switch factions!

>>377929282
yes sadly WoW got into this cycle of just a big focus on the end game

i still play and to enjoy leveling I just never set foot in dungeons. a lot of the questlines from 1-60 are quite enjoyable

>classes are so unbalanced in early levels tanks deal the most damage and can even solo dungeons
>leveling professions while leveling your character is completely incompatible
>as soon as you hit lvl 10 you get your spec's main ability
>since the main focus is endgame as you level you just skip most of the lore of previous expansions as well as most of the content

I'd like to see Blizzard revamp Outland and Northrend and update the quests. I mean nobody is going to play through the endgame anymore so you might as well update the story to reflect what was left behind.

>>377929282
*cough* nostalrius *cough*

>>377932083
> a lot of the questlines from 1-60 are quite enjoyable

thats because alot of those questlines are leftovers from vanilla, when they actually gave a shit

There is zero effort to make leveling a character from 1 entertaining at all. The current leveling experience is designed so that you can basically afk your way to 100 and then start the current expansion content.

>>377932198
doesnt exist anymore
i think you mean elysium

>>377932224
theyre not they are from cataclysm

>>377929282
Early leveling is a joke. I think it's fun though.

>>377932224
Vanilla questlines got redone completely. Entire quest hubs got removed/created
Not to mention that quest rewards got a lot better.
You progress through entire zones with one storyline

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>>377929282
>>Decided to try out WOW
>>Roll Warlock

Enjoy endgame when your role becomes "Paper Bitchboi/Raid Bull Prepper"

>>377932719
Make a portal, make cookies, do meh to good damage depending on the fight.

>>377932841
>meh to good
That's called "shit" in WoW. You either top meters or get kicked.

>>377932719
Not making it to endgame. Can't stomach anymore of it. They've made it so easy that it's become boring.

Leveling feels pointless because there was never any struggle. Mobs just topple over the same as they did when I first started.

Why even have a mana bar? There's no way to even deplete it.

>>377930835
>vanilla
Wotlk private servers are best. Vanilla's mediocre.

>>377933005
As long as you are pulling over a million per boss the thing will die so play with your friends. Never gonna hit top 25 world anyways so who cares about min maxing that much.

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>>377933058
just buy a character boost for only 59.99 +tip

>>377932963
>liking The Chinese Pandering expansion

>>377930835
Roll on a vanilla realm and tell me how many times you die before you hit 20. Enjoy westfall when you pull 3 mobs and get iced so you can't run away =).

>>377933264
>Throne of Thunder
>Timeless isle PvP
>Exploring a forgotten foreign land
>Oondasta wiping entire server populations

MoP was GOAT

>>377933264
>this shitty false meme

Weebs were asking for Pandas in BC.

MoP had nothing to do with the Chinese market any other expansion did not pander to. Cata was the main Chink pander expo when they introduced pay-as-you-go sub models there.

>>377933330
I played Vanilla at release. If you died before level 20 you were a fucking idiot.

>>377933264
People meme on it because of Pandas, but it genuinely wasn't that bad of an expansion with the large exception of Siege for a year.

>>377933058
>Why even have a mana bar? There's no way to even deplete it.
That's always been the case with warlocks though

wow can never have any hope of becoming good again as long as it retains its xboxhuge numbers in damage, health, etc. fuckin' diablo devs

>>377933889

I liked Mists a lot. Had a lot of fun raiding up until Siege. Fuck Siege and everything that came after.

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>>377933264
Mop was actually one of the best times i had in WoW and in online videogames as a whole.

I would kill to relive those days again.

>>377933889
>>377934159
arent you guys forgetting the billion daylies at the start?
that was some cancer
also pvp being literally broken for months
tripple hunter teams with no losses because stampede just oneshotted everything

>>377930835
>vanilla
>not TBC
lol

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>>377932963
Objectively correct.
Vanilla sucked dick.

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How bad are WW Monks right now? When I stopped playing a bit after Legion came out they were middle of the pack though Strike of the Windlord still got nerfed, thanks Blizz though a friend of mine says they're garbage now. Are there currently any "must avoid" specs?

>>377929282
You're 10 years late, mate.

What is your favorite zone, /v/?

>>377934347
>that was some cancer
>also pvp being literally broken for months

I was already used to dailies and I don't care about PVP in games that aren't built from the ground up specifically for it.

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Why is this allowed?

>>377934664
I think WW is middle of the pack right now.
The only class/spec I can think of to totally avoid is feral druids because they are and have been totally busted both in damage output and mechanically.

>>377932963
oh look another faggot who thinks wod was ok. Fuck off with your opinion, its shit.

>>377933058

>Leveling feels pointless because there was never any struggle. Mobs just topple over the same as they did when I first started.

WoW is over ten years old. Leveling was streamlined because there isn't a steady influx of new players to keep these areas interesting anymore. You are a decade too late for this shit.

If you want grindy leveling that takes months to get to level cap just keep hopping to whatever the newest Korean MMO fotm is.

>>377934915
STV

>/v/ actually shitting on vanilla WoW
Am I in bizarro world?

>>377934915
vashjir
dont kill me

>>377935384
its ok to shit on games you've never played

>>377935384
People are finally waking up and realizing that Vanilla was broken as shit.

>>377935119
Compared to Legion wod was actually Good.

In fact, wod had everything to be an amazing expansion pack, but those motherfuckers cut so much contend that it ended up being what we got.

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>>377934924
>tfw would actually love brown elves

>>377935642
Just like /v/ does for new WoW, right?

>>377932073
If only there were multiple census websites that list both the server population and the ratio of horde to alliance, oh well maybe one day.

>>377932963
This is the worst image I've ever seen.
How can someone be so wrong about everything?

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>>377935384

Oh look the nostcucks are here

>>377935384
>/v/ likes being contrarian
What else is new?

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>>377934924
Fuck off /pol/

>>377935880
comeon you cant expect a new player that starts a game to do research on it before
low pop servers even have a banner saying new players

>>377935993
/v/ use to suck vanilla wow cock back in the day.

>>377936047
When I started playing recently it took me forever to fibally decide what server to play on after doing some research. Not only that but the game is free to play ffs, if you don't like a server just switch and make a new char somewhere else before you buy

>>377935384

The first version of WoW they played was WOTLK when they were 12 years old, so they parrot the posts of blizzard forum drones who desperately try to tell people Vanilla was bad.


The true power level of WoW versions is:

Top Tier
>Vanilla
Good Tier
>Burning Crusade
Meh tier
>Wrath of the Lich King

Not even worth playing-Tier
>Everything else.

>>377936260
No it didnt

It was good until the end of Wotlk, the 2nd expansion.

>>377935769
no, fuck off. wod was shit and has no redeemable features. legion at least gets end game right and pvp is somewhat enjoyable now. so go fuck yourself in a corner.

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>>377934915
Grizzly Hills

https://youtu.be/pWTSK5waNs8

Other contenders for me are TBC Nagrand, Pre-Cata Thousand Needles, and Pre-Cata Barrens.

>>377936390
It's almost like it gets worse with every expansion

>>377936390
Not everyone is so underage that WoW was their first MMO

The true power level of WoW versions is:

Top Tier
>Wrath of the Lich King
Good Tier
>Mists of Pandaria
Meh tier
>Everything else.

Not even worth playing-Tier
>vanilla

>>377936390
Mein negger!
Absolutely correct!
Though you can put TBC in Great tier (it was a great expansion despite its glaring flaws and the beginning of the casualisation).

>>377935106

alright, thank you

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>>377936546

>legion pvp
>enjoyable

>>377936546
>Legion
>PvP

PvP is the worst its been since the shit that was vanilla

>>377929282
>How could this not bore anyone to tears
the vast majority of gamers these days are super hyper casuals who just want the good feeling of victory without having to work for it

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>Muh experience at level 20 is indicative of the entire game

Also OP if you think Warlock, specifically Affliction Warlock is shit, you are an enormous retard because it's one of the most powerful specs in the game right now.

Kill yourself.

>>377936628
Spot on

>>377936546
legion pvp is the worst it has ever been

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>>377936390
>Top Tier
>Vanilla
epic meme bro
Shouldn't you be signing a petition to beg blizzard for legacy servers?

>>377936628

WOTLK was the downfall of Wow.

>LFG
>Epic loots in heroic dungeons
>Heirlooms
>rare items in quest rewards
>Built in quest helper

The only thing Wotlk did great is the music and story

>>377936390
This.

>>377936628
Absolutely wrong, kill yourself you shitstain.
WotLK introduced the dungeon finder, one of the major things that ruined the game.

You probably don't even comprehend WHY it ruined the game.

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>>377935384
Because it's shit.
Power level goes like this:
1) WotLK
2) TBC
3) Shit
4) Piss
5) Every other addon
6) Vanilla.

picrelated: nostalgia faggots itt

>>377936739
what so you want complete balance? that shit is what completely ruined pvp. PvP in this game was always about playing the op class and making those stubborn players who arn't willing to switch and instead become cattle for the slaughter. Everything had checks and balances in vanilla. Not one class dominating everyone like the infamous reckadins in wotlk.

>God Tier:
WotLK

>High Tier:
Legion
MoP

>Mid Tier:
Cata
BC

>Low Tier:
WoD

>Shit Tier:
vanilla

>>377936768

High end raiding is still as much of a second dayjob as it ever was. You just wouldn't know because you never did it back then and you don't do it now. You're probably some LFR shitter acting like an elitist.

>>377933264
Its just MoP babies.

Same with Wrath babies (except wrath was actually good)

>>377936945
>Dungeon finder
>Bad

Put some effort into your bait

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>>377937160
>(except wrath was actually good)

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>>377937047
>Everything had checks and balances in vanilla

>>377937047

Paladins, Demon Hunters, and Rogues all have stuns so long I could father children faster than I could regain control of my character.

Fuck off. Blizzard is going the Riot path where their idea of balance is handing out enormous amounts of CC for no fucking reason.

>>377937187
See, all that you had to say to prove that you know absolutely nothing about what makes an MMORPG good.

>>377936390
Vanilla and BC were both absolutely amazing. We'll never get them back. ;_;

>>377929282
>queue
There is the problem with WoW and modern MMOs. Enjoy your lack of community. After all, why bother chatting with people you will literally never see again?

>>377937187
Upvoted.

I hate any community in my MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES as well.

Why would I want to have to communicate with other and travel through the world to do content in the game? JUST GIVE ME. GIVE ME NOW. GIMMIE CONTENT NOW. GIMMIE EPIC GIMMIE.

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>>377936628
Wrath was great but they got a little obsessive over vehicles.

The music was great (like Grizzly Hills or Icecrown) while the story was pretty good.

Sadly WotLK also caused the aoe zerg-rush of what dungeons are now.

As much as people want to complain about heirlooms, I felt they were completely necessary.

>>377929282
They don't care about the leveling experience. If you have a problem then their solution is for you to buy a boost.

>>377937151
Not him and you are right, top end raiding still is.

However it's also more cancerous now. MUH PARSE BRO CHECK MY PARSE GUY RUINED MY PARSE

>>377937293
nigger fuck off i can murder shit with my ele sham. git gud faggot. Don't just jump into the fray and bust all your cd's

>>377936945

Challenge modes and mythic dungeons fixed whatever your problem with Dungeon Finder was.

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>>377937047
>Everything had checks and balances in vanilla. Not one class dominating everyone
Yeah, it's like World of Roguecraft never existed.

>>377934664
their single target is ass. their aoe/cleave is amazing. So they are very good for most of the fights in the current raid. and don't listen to >>377935106 about feral druids. every spec is viable and do good damage if you know how to play them.

>>377937458
Don't bother, you don't get it. You weren't around to play proper MMORPGs nor do you understand why they were so good.

You're part of the nu gaming crowd that wants instant gratification, easy access to everything and plays MMORPGs while actively being antisocial.

WotLK was objectively the beginning of the end for World of Warcraft.

>>377937483
rouges were op yes. but they could be kited for ages by a mage. Mage could be absolutely destroyed by a warrior. Warrior could get fucked by a rogue with disarm. so on and so forth.

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>>377937369
>Standing in Orgrimmar afk for 3 hours with a bot that shouts "LFG WC" is le hard core MMO experience

>>377937327

Not who youre responding to, but lets be real, vanilla style dungeon group forming was aids.

You spent half a fucking day looking for a tank or healer, then everyone had to get to the fuckign stone, then you had to pray no one left and you had to restart the process all over again.

I understand it hurts the social aspect of an MMORPG, really I do, but if anything LFD is a necessary evil because the vanilla system was way too fucking tedious.

LFR can fuck off though. At least in Dungeon finder all mechanics are present, LFR takes out so much necessary shit out of a raid encounter noobs dont learn a thing

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>>377929282
>What the hell is this game?

Youre a fyucking nostshill you shitnigger, all of your complaints are something that a new player wouldnt notice about the game, because they dont know any different from it.

>>377930835
>>377932083
>>377932198
>>377937345
>>377937430

Fuck off shills
Maybe if you ask nicely this year Mike will make vanilla realms

NOT

now fuck off back to /wpsg/

>tfw I will never be a Warlock with dark apotheosis shoving people off objectives nonstop and being literally unkillable ever again.

I miss it.

>The game has been out for 12 years
We're so beyond the point where we could foresee. It was always about taken down Arthas and that was 4 expansions ago.

It's understandable to see why WoW is so easy now. Could you imagine spending months to get to level 110?

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>>377937636
>rouges were op yes. but
>Everything had checks and balances in vanilla.

>>377937636
to add to that vanilla was not about 1v1 matches, it was about team fighting and working togather. arena was cancer and signaled the degeneracy of pvp to come.

>>377936796
Never said it was shit faggot all I said was that it was boring as fuck. Made it to level 30 with 0 challenge.

It's boring and feels completely pointless because it's like you are playing on God mode.

Did you even fucking read the post retard?

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>>377937151
lol, i've beaten everything in a game much much MUCH harder than WoW, and was in a top 3 GAMEWIDE guild for 8 straight years. keep bragging about your WoW accomplishments like they mean anything, casual.

>>377937763
Yes, would be great.
Leveling was, in fact, probably one of the best things about old WoW.
Great zones, slow and nice leveling, you met people all the time, did dungeons (knowing where all of them were, too), explored, always had open world pvp.

>>377937437

High end raiding always required logs to keep players on top of their game. It's a competitive environment and if you can't handle people being dicks then it's not for you. Just don't claim the game is easier because it now accommodates shitters who don't care about their performance.

>>377937763
>Could you imagine spending months to get to level 110?
Yes

Some of us played MMOs before they were babby-mode and only focused on raids and not the experience of living in the world.

>>377937796
At this point I'm 90% certain the only people who praise Vanilla are assmad Rogue and Warrior mains.

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>>377937073
Legion belongs in Low tier
Switch WoD and Vanilla

>>377937763
vanilla WoW was the easiest WoW has ever been, theres literal videos of people hitting 60 in a few hours, raid bosses LITERALLY had no mechanics to them

>>377937636
>>377937483
I still remember seeing a resto shaman in vanilla one shot a fully geared T2 or T3 tank with a dagger because lolwindfury procs.
>>377937813
Arena signaled the end of the PvE community as well since the cross server crap would be implemented into PvE.
>>377937672
WotLK was the best for content available, though BC was the best for its community.

>>377937668

>Dungeon Finder is a necessary evil.

Fuck off, you don't want a world mmo, you literally want online lobbies for content.

>>377933264
>HOW CAN YOU LIKE PANDAS?
>IT'S MADE FOR KIDS
>IT'S CHILDISH AND NOT ADULT LIKE IT USED TO BE
>I DONT LIKE THIS
>YOU SHOULDNT LIKE THIS
>PANDAS ARE BAD
>MOP WAS BAD
>I AM RIGHT

fuck off you nigger, MoP was OBJECTIVELY the height of WoW PvE experience, the story was DARKER than any other expansion, including Legion and the PvP actually had narrative and was relatively balanced (outside of being a human but Horde still shits on Alliance in PvE aspects cause muh racials)

If you cant look past the Pandas and are unironically this autistic, your opinion is automatically discarded because youre just focusing in on one thing and hating the whole product because of one single aspect of the game

i hope RALPH gets you.
Nigger.

>>377937835

Its like everyone has BOA gear because people want to get to the actual END GAME instead of sitting between level 30-40 for a week.

"Hurrdurr I made it to level 30 with 0 challenge this is stupid." Thats like complaining tying your shoelaces wasnt hard you mouthbreather.

>>377929282
>I don't mind grinding
If you want to grind, get to max level and do the max level grinds of which there are lots this expansion:
>Gear
>Artifact power
>Reputation
>Honor
>Nethershards
>Dalaran eyes
>Curious Coins

WoW has gotten too big for level 1~90 and old expansion zones to matter.

>>377937672
>new player won't notice when a game is pathetically easy

>>377937886
I didn't say the game is easier, I'm not that guy.
I'm saying the game is shittier. For multiple reasons.

Modern WoW simply isn't as good as it once used to be anymore. This is not just some nostalgia shit, it simply is this way because of changes they made to the game.
Not ONLY is it what Blizzard did to the game though. It goes hand in hand with the kind of players you get nowadays. They no longer care about the social aspects of the genre that was once so important. They just want their epix now.

>>377937796
nigger i just gave you an example to stop a rogue. and showed that warriors could wreck just as much as rogues could but were stopped by rouges. and mages who got good could kit a rogue. Also vanilla was about either ganking lowbies or fighting together in groups. it was never really balanced for 1v1. Now that everything is balanced everyone thinks their class is shit because they can't curb stomp players without actual effort.

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>>377937979
>raid bosses LITERALLY had no mechanics to them
DELETE THIS
MOLTEN CORE IS THE PINNACLE OF PVE GAMEPLAY DELEEEETE

>>377937927
Exactly. I would also say frost mages, but they got buffed even more in TBC so they are not mad. Rogue, Warrior and Mage were the only classes that were allowed to have fun in vanilla.

>>377937979

>theres literal videos of people hitting 60 in a few hours

Bullshit detected.

>>377938000

>YOU JUST DONT GET IT YOU CASUAL

Fuck off with your ad hominem retardation.

>>377938026
Why even have a leveling experience then? What is the point of it?

Like I said it feels like a fucking waste of time.

>>377938112
>giving raid bosses 8 phases with 500 mechanics you have to """learn""" (read: the mods will tell you what to do) makes them better

Either way, raiding was never the best part of WoW.

>>377929282

I don't play MMO's and I want to know what people want. Ideas like building houses and bridges by other players failed.

Vanilla was my first WoW game, WoW was not my first MMO, i can safely say without a shadow of a doubt vanilla was complete shit.

The only people who think vanilla was good are
A) people who were 10 years old when WoW came out who had never played an MMO before

or

B) People who never played vanilla to begin with and are trying to pretend they played it to make it look like they aren't as underage

>>377937763
>It's understandable to see why WoW is so easy now. Could you imagine spending months to get to level 110?
I think I spent close to a year before I got to max level in FF11. God damn, that was an amazing journey.
>>377937668
>vanilla style dungeon group forming was aids.
In a bit of irony, vanilla was the best setup for the part of the trinity that now has it the hardest: DPS. If you were a good DPS, people would know and would pick you up. You could, possibly, settle for a mediocre tank or a shitty healer but people would covet their good DPS people. Good DPS, or friendly DPS for that matter, did not have trouble finding groups. Shitty, mediocre or unknown DPS did.

>>377938217

Because for many people who want to get to endgame content, which is the large majority of the playerbase, it is a fucking waste of time.

>>377938245
Depends on who you ask.
Me personally, out of a game like WoW, I would have wanted them to stick to their design philosophy they had throughout vanilla and TBC and take that with them to new expansions.

I would have never, EVER done the dungeon finder, looking for raid, changed alterac and so on.
I wouldn't have made leveling so much easier, I wouldn't have made heirlooms a thing.

And WoW would be better for it now.

>>377929282
You had to be there at the beginning. Most of the people still playing aren't even playing the actual game anymore. It's just and inertia and sunk cost fallacy hell out of which they cannot escape.

>>377929282
Honestly that's a fairly accurate description of FFXIV as well, I guess that's what MMO players want these days, loot carousels

>>377938412

I play the game because I have a guild of people who I enjoy hanging with and clearing mythic content with, but keep screaming about sunk cost fallacies.

>>377930835
Looking forward to Pantheon but have zero clue where it is in terms of development. I want to use buffs and shit and sit comfy with bros at a camp talking the shit.

Better then this spam an ability every 1.5 seconds or less shit that everyone post-wow mmos if pushing now. Part of the reason why people don't talk is because there's no time to talk.

Now I feel like i'm gonna summon the FF14 faggits that are gonna recruit for their erping.

>>377937979
bruh i consider myself a no life and in nost it still took me over 3 weeks to do it with constant grinding. Also this was with a hunter the easiest class to level.

>>377938473
do they?
last i heard mmos werent doing too hot
or is ff doing good?

>>377938198

You don't even know what ad hominem means.

>>377938339
Seems fucking retarded

>>377937610

I played vanilla WoW. There are things I miss about it but I understand why things had to be changed. The people that grew up playing WoW have less time to devote to it now. I bet you never raided beyond MC if at all. That shit was like a dayjob, it doesn't work anymore when gamers have less and less time to play.

I remember spending 4 hours to finish Marauding while I was leveling my first character, 1 hour to put the pug together and 3 because nobody knew what to do. It was fine when the game was fresh but that shit won't fly anymore.

>>377938191
>>377938582
think he meant they were raiding within a few hours of hitting 60, not that they hit 60 in a few hours

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>It's another nostcuck bait thread

>>377938604

Youre literally calling anyone who likes dungeon finder a moron and a casual who "just doesnt get it" and "just wants to sit in an online lobby"

Original dungeon system was tedious, get over it.

>>377929282
Can you imagine if they made a single player role gaming in the Warcraft universe? Something like TES but with a good story, that would be so sweet.

>>377938473
>>377938590
FF14 is just "okay". It's literally just a remix of things we've already seen and had in other popular MMOs before. It's alright, they don't do anything new, nothing exciting. It's bland but it just kind of works.

Really easy to get bored with it too though. Fuck they couldn't even be assed to make your weapons any exciting. All it would take for starters is have gear drop that has more stats to it, maybe procs and unique effects, than +x/+x to your 2 main stats. That's ALL you'll ever get on gear in this game.

Oh, look, a new chest. Fuck yeah! It has +2/+2 to my two stats compared to the one I have equipped right now!

Story is beyond boring too.

>>377938626
it is
but its been bad for years and blizzard doesnt seem to care
they gave players a free 100 boost instead of fixing leveling

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I bet most of you complaining faggots havent even finished NH on Heroics, let alone mythic, and probably dont even have a single PvP title, then go around spouting your shit as if you have any relevance in the game

Youre not the demographic: People who actually play the game are the demographic and Blizzard are appealing to people who actually enjoy playing WoW, not you shitsacks who just complain all the time.

>>377933264
i hated it while playing it, didn't like the lore at all, but when WoD came out i missed MoP immensely. WoD killed the game.

>>377929282
After wrath attracted so many casuals, and the introduction of lfg WoW lost a very large portion of its hardcore fanbase and original EQ playing devs. The new fanbase hated the experience of the world, so they made leveling so piss easy, you never face a challenge. The new fanbase hated searching, so quests now auto update in your log and an arrow points the way. They hated talking, so they gave us garrisons.

Now in legion, mobs scale with your level and gear. Meaning you can never die, and you can never out level a mob or feel any growth in your characters strength. All ap gains are tied to time gated global progression, so everyone is on the same cart, on the same ride, and there's no way to get ahead, just sit along for the lonely ride.

The new devs and fanbase killed the game. The old devs that would've told casuals to piss off, are so long gone the game is no longer itself.

>>377938626

>99 people want to get levelling over with and hit 110 so they can do the current dungeons, raids, and other features
>1 guy wants to level slowly
>Makes a thread crying when the game caters to the needs and wants of the many over the few

Top kek

>>377938639
What's with you people and your stupid assumptions?
I did MC, I did BWL and I did Naxx you fucking faggot.

I don't give a CRAP about how much time you have to devote to the game.
I would rather have a good game with 1000 players than a shitty game with 2000 players.

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>>377934915
Mount Hyjal

>>377938782
do they publish player numbers?

>>377938718

>Puting words into other people's mouths.
See, that is an actual fallacy.

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>>377938590
To my knowledge, the only ones doing OK financially are WoW, FF14 and Lineage.
>>377938782
>Really easy to get bored with it too though. Fuck they couldn't even be assed to make your weapons any exciting. All it would take for starters is have gear drop that has more stats to it, maybe procs and unique effects, than +x/+x to your 2 main stats. That's ALL you'll ever get on gear in this game.
Go look at EQ2's gear. Pic related is one of the easier ones to understand.

>>377938874
>and other features

Once you are max level in WoW, you'll get bored within months and quit 100%. Then you come back with a new xpac, rinse and repeat.

Sitting around waiting for raids cooldown to pop is not exciting. And you can only run through old shit yourself to farm rare pets and mounts or transmogs for so long before it bores you.

>>377938664
that's also bullshit. to be able to raid in vanilla you needed decent gear. decent gear was not easy to obtain since you had to run some hard dungeons. keep in miond this was the days where everyone was a noob. So it is ez to a long time veteran yes but to the average player who is touching 60 fresh. they wont see a raid for another few months. add to that tthere were quests you had to do which took time to unlock the raids for you anyways. This was the case in bc as well. you didn't just hit 70 and grab a few heroic dungeon gear pieces and be on your marry way to raiding black temple.

>>377936628
Wrath had one good patch, everything else was shit. I guess I have two fond memories from it, being in a really great guild during Ulduar and accidentally finding Time-Lost.

>>377938874
wow would have way way more players if leveling was bareable

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>>377938639
>WoW
>like a dayjob
yeah try raiding the plane of sky in everquest, where your raid force of 60 people needs to sleep in small shifts for an entire week because you lose all your keys and progress if you leave the zone. you don't know shit about hardcore MMO's.

>>377939225
Define bearable.
I enjoyed the leveling the way it used to be before dungeon finder and heirlooms.
I think that both were a mistake.

>>377938392

Well I can see why you'd hate dungeon finder and others, is it because you hate those "solo" players? I haven seen an increase of people begging an MMO to have more solo stuff when the whole point of MMO's is multiplayer.

>>377930835
>I Never Played Vanilla But Like to Act As If I Know How It Was Like: The Post

>>377938831
>The old devs that would've told casuals to piss off, are so long gone the game is no longer itself.
Lol that's not true, they said that one of the nice things about WoW was that even if you were not a player who put in many hours, you could have a feel of progression for your character. Maybe you finished a difficult quest, or got a new piece of gear, and you logged out feeling like you accomplished something.
Vanilla was very well tuned to both casuals, for whom leveling, dungeons and later on early tier raids were possible, and hardcore players who were always doing the new content.

The problem with WoW is simply that everyone grew tired of it. Doing a quest was fun now it's a chore but the quests are the same. It's not like the quests are wrong, it's that people are burned out.

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>>377938307
This

You can't have a sense of adventure without danger, and you can't feel real accomplishment without challenge.

>>377938831

>The new fanbase hated searching, so quests now auto update in your log and an arrow points the way.

At some point so many people had Wyatt helper installed that Blizzard just integrated the while thing into the game. Eventually everything becomes a path of least resistance. The game isn't exactly harder because you had to alt tab and search thottbot/wowhead or whatever, just more tedious.

The irony of modern WoW is that to make it any kind of fun, you would have to go out of your way to cuck yourself out of using readily available convenient features and instead just level through it all the old fashioned way.

You know a game became bad when you have to work against it to make it enjoyable.

>>377939278
It's been statistically proven that the two major features that ruined WoW and killed off the majority of the player base was dungeon finder and cross-realms, but heirlooms tie in to the same problem and definitively was a contributing factor.

I think WoW has something like 1-2 million players today and it's shrinking fast. They don't even release numbers anymore so who the fuck knows.

>>377939278
they would have to make it actually fun again
maybe slow it down maybe make it faster
make more huts and big questing points for players to actually meet again fix xp for quests so you can finish the story of a zone without having to do grey quests
also classes should be a bit more fun and better balanced in lower levels

I still remember leveling in vanilla and it was a fucking pain when you get to the neutral area in the late 50s because there were people hunting noobs all the time and I was such a clueless noob I couldn't find my way into a group to farm blackrock spire or some shit like that.

Never played WoW after vanilla but to be honest I think it was only good because of how popular it was. Most of the fun I had was not the lore or the combat mechanics but just messing around with randoms and a couple of friends.

>>377939260
EQ, in its hay day, was a different time. When the internet was primarily white men/young adults who were well educated because it was expensive to not only have a computer with a 3D graphics card, but to be able to play internet games. Remember people bitching about the PS3's launch cost? That was about the cost you were looking at to make a computer that could play EQ1 when it launched.

>>377934915
Frostfire Ridge

>>377939559
>many people had Wyatt helper
Yes, players ruined their own experience. What else is new? If anything it's proof that devs should limit addons to avoid spoiling the experiences.

>>377930835
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9kTpmAvcPs

kys blizzshill

>>377939260

What's up with the epeen contest? There's a reason why EQ is a zombie game kept alive by autists.

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>>377929282
Just play Project 1999 and relive old EQ. It's capped at Velious.

>>377939618
That's good, though.

You had fun having endless battles in Stranglethorn. You had rogues killing others in Booty Bay and other goblin outposts and dodging the guards.
You'd form a group to go to Diremaul and on your way there run into some enemies, you'd talk to them, it was really social.
You ended up knowing all the big guilds and people on your server because that was your server, no cross realm stuff.

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I enjoy FFXI more than WoW now, but I still play and progress on mythic gul'dan

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>>377932963
What an epic and contrarian opinion.

>>377939692
I agree with this, actually.

As much as I enjoyed some mods (especially UI ones), I feel like in the end it would have been better for WoW to not allow any modding at all instead of the situation we have now.

>>377937672
>Youre a fyucking nostshill you shitnigger, all of your complaints are something that a new player wouldnt notice about the game, because they dont know any different from it.

Dude come on
You can do better than this
Try again I'm watching

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>>377934915
Vashj'ir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgOJvUBydmA

>>377939818
>run into some enemies, you'd talk to them
Maybe on the forums in a "pvp happened on a pvp server" thread.

>>377932569
>leveling
>fun
What?

>>377932963
did someone randomize the reactions?

>>377936628
Vanilla worth playing on a high rate server 1x is aids on vanilla though not worth the time at all.

Not sure why everyone wants to play 1x so badly.

>>377939984
I meant talking to your group. Back then going into a dungeon and all took longer than hitting 1 dungeon finder button and barely squeezing out a "hi" if even.

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>>377939895
>contrarian
Really makes you think

>>377929282
The features they started adding in Wrath, like LFG, killed the social aspects of the game that made it fun to begin with. The game had some shitty aspects in its early days, but those are the aspects that brought people together to overcome challenges. Now you need no help questing and to get into a dungeon you just push a button. It was a pain in the ass to get a group together at times, but the process is so streamlined now that you can get through most of the game's content by interacting with others minimally. There used to be server communities and guilds used to have significance, but now I really don't know why you'd want to play unless your friends still play.

I think this video explains it well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNFWhCw8dg

>>377940076
>the wod spike
so much hope shattered

>>377940054
1x is the best optimized and ultimately most fun. I played Nost before it shut down and it was the most fun i had in wow for at least 4 years. people who say it's nostalgia can fuck off, it wasn't nostalgia, it was the game itself.

>>377934915
grizzly hills
old westfall
old durotar
valley of the four winds/jade forest
Draenor Talador

>>377940054
vanilla is just shit in general

in the 4th expansion they completely neutered the game difficulty until you do end game content and even then the end game content was still incredibly streamlined and 'easy'

>>377937012
Being honest I think that would be amazing. Kinda like a WOW dark souls hybrid.

>>377935119
>>377935889
>>377939895
>>377940007
t. Fagbois who didnt actually play the expansion becauses WAAAAAAAAAAAA REEEEEEEEEEE

>>377940167
t. wotlk or pandababy nu-gamer

>>377940069
True, fair enough.

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>>377932963

>>377940225
Nope, vanilla was my first WoW game, vanilla was just shit

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>>377940225
t. nostcuck shill

>>377939768
current EQ is casual garbage, that is why i am posting older stuff. i just like to shut down WoW players who think their game is hard when it's a heavily casualized version of EQ because Tigole was a shitty player and tried to make WoW easier to compensate after blizzard hired him. They should have put Furor in Tigole's spot since he was actually robust and knew what he was doing, and stuck Tigole on quest design.

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>>377940161
dude the talador music is one the most amazing music tracks ever in wow
i had to stop playing the first time there to just listen to it
if any of you havent heard it yet check it out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXyH27S_y24

>>377940298
What is better now than back then that makes you say that? Elaborate

>>377940225
See >>377938307

>>377935384

only nostalgia faggots actually think vanilla wow is good, its fucking dogshit and only in tbc did wow become great (aside from flying mounts killing world pvp, but world pvp was literally just lol get ganked by 3 stealth rogues, so fun!!)

>>377940090

You still need to socialize to get into high end content. I don't get the complaints about DF, you're not exactly forced to use it, you can still spend half an hour putting together a group using the trade channel. Happens all the time in my realm.

>>377940221
i played every expansion for a minimum of 6 months. vanilla was objectively the most fun, followed by tbc and wotlk. it literally just exponentially started sucking the more shitty features they added. it's not even a matter of discussion it's just a statistical and empirical fact. even blizzard knows it, which is why instead of focusing on expanding the player base they built another business model.

>>377939778
>p99
>anything like old EQ at all
no sir, if you played there you would realize it's very very very different when everyone is a powergamer with all the game secrets widely available on a wiki. that wasn't how it was in 1999. don't even get me started on how fucked the economy is, items literally 10-50x more expensive than they should be, for no reason at all except greed.

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The game doesn't really have a look to it anymore which really bugs me. The aesthetic is gone.

You used to be able to tell what level a character was or where he was at with endgame progression or if he was a pvper by what they were wearing.

Now at low levels you have Heirlooms and access to all the mounts on your account at 20, so you can have instances where you see a level 21 priest in full Dreadmist riding a corehound. Doesn't really feel like some rinky-dink low level in rags trying to set off into the world.


With transmog you could make whatever ridiculous set non-functional look you want or use get a look from a different era like wrath or vanilla or BC. You find yourself in raids where people have the vanilla look going and people wearing slutmogs. It felt appropriate when everyone looked like they've been in previous raids or acquired armor from the raid itself.

I'd be lying if I didn't welcome transmog myself but damn does nothing feel special anymore.

>>377940298
>vanilla was my first WoW game

Mhm, sure it was.

>>377940441
>only nostalgia faggots actually think vanilla wow is good
>what was Nost

>>377940369
Class balance
World exploration
Leveling
Questing
PvP
Raiding
Time wasting filler activities eg, battle pets

>>377940441
nope
nice attempt though

vanilla and TBC were the peak of WoW
WotLK was okay despite introducing cancer like dungeon finder
then it rapidly went down the shitter

legion is the first xpac I haven't even tried. I just can't be assed anymore and judging by what friends tell me that was a good decision, I missed nothing

Vanilla and Burning Crusade were the most fun.

t. old guy

>>377940462
>played every expansion for a minimum of 6 months

opinion discarded then
Play the game a little longer and actually play everything and maybe one day you'll have a valid opinion

>>377940585
wow you sure went into great detail there buddy

how exactly is world exploration better now than in vanilla?
how is leveling (hit dungeon finder and use heirlooms) better now?
how is pvp better now? open world pvp doesn't even excist anymore

not even gonna bother, fuck off

>>377940581

>what is massive drop in population after the first week because people realize how shit vanilla is

>>377940603
nope
nice attempt though

vanilla was complete casual shit with the lowest population, worst mechanics, easiest game play with the least stable servers

>>377940307
>Shilling for something that's free
You've reached a whole new level of stupidity

>>377940718
>what is a steadily expanding population all the way until shutdown, population so massive for a single server that blizzard saw their retail revenue drop substantially, forcing them to take legal action

>>377940512
i remember doing pvp in cata before transmog and being able to tell exactly what gear my oponent wore
over all transmog is fine and added alot of content for awhile since everyone started running old raids but it understand how you feel
also ban slutmogs too many elfs in my horde

>>377939916

You're still free to play without mods. I mean the people on LFR clearly do. It all depends on how much you care about playing the game for epeen contest versus muh immersion.

>>377940486
You also forget to mention people have computers capable of running P99 as opposed to getting anc accepting input lag because your computer wasn't good enough. And you're not forced to look at the floor anymore either.

>>377940874
>input lag
>forced to look at the floor
literally never had that problem, are you a spic with a computer made of balsa wood or something? a voodoo2 could run everquest just fine

>>377940486
You can't put the genie back in the bottle. It's as close as it's going to get. Stay out of the raid scene and it's fine.

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Official power ranking incoming

TBC > WoTLK > MoP > CATA > Legion > WoD > shit >>>>>>> power gap >>>>>>>>> Vanilla

>>377940640
played vanilla from launch until tbc, tbc for 6 months because i was stationed abroad, played all of wotlk, cata for 1 year, mists for the full duration, wod for 9 months of trash game design, and still playing legion. i've played in top tier guilds my entire wow career and cleared almost all raids. it's boring as fuck as it stands, but i play because i have nothing else to do and because i've made friends from the game. if my opinion isn't valid then no one's is.

>>377940970
>Stay out of the raid scene and it's fine
>people selling a FBSS for 8k during velious when they should be 200pp at the most because it's a vanilla item dropped by a level 46 mob, that ANY CLASS IN THE GAME can easily solo during velious, flooding the market with FBSS, which should greatly lower their value, but jews keep the prices high for whatever reason

>>377940697
>how exactly is world exploration better now than in vanilla?
Bigger maps/areas with more content, not blocked by invisible walls, a world actually exists and is not just carboard cut outs

>how is leveling (hit dungeon finder and use heirlooms) better now?
More variety in quests, more verity in zones, more overall options

>how is pvp better now?
This is bait, right?

>open world pvp doesn't even excist anymore
Yes it does

1/10 got me to reply

>>377940968
You have 9000 things happening, you're going to look at the floor just so you can keep your CH rotation going.

>>377940803
>50% player base increase per month in vanilla
>lowest population

>>377940826

You think people don't shill private servers here?

>>377940826
welcome to /v videogames
enjoy your stay

>>377941120
See >>377940076
Literally the lowest population

>>377941279
>people have to buy the game before they can play it

really made me think

>>377941086
imagine being this pathetic
unreal

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>>377941279

>>377941279
Not him:
Growth is almost always a good thing. Its more noteworthy that it wasn't until WotLK that it petered off in growth until it slowly by steadily dropped with minor upticks here and there. Also the requirements to play WoW effectively went down over time as computers became stronger while WoW stayed the same graphic level.

Which is better /v/?

>Two or more opposing factions for world pvp for story reasons.

>pvp only server

>>377941068
Go camp it yourself then.

>>377941356
>people have to buy the game before they can play it
Except they dont, WoW has pretty much always had a trial mode

>>377937073
>God Tier:
WotLK

>High Tier:
BC
Vanilla


>Shit Tier:
MoP
WoD
Cata
Notice the gap?

>>377940076
>>377940130

the wod spike makes me lol everytime, i hope the blizzard marketing team got a big raise for that con

They should really retune the old content to be somewhat dangerous again for leveling. Especially 1-60 it's just such a shame. The content is there and there's tons of neat zones to choose from each with tidy little storylines, it's just all so fucking easy. You don't even have to use your class correctly, it makes all the spells and talents you learn seem pointless.

>>377941483
can't, it's permacamped and the camp holder is not giving it up, and they are a 60 necro whose pet can solo the entire camp while he stays feign deathed and sleeps, and rogean said it's okay if his pet can hold the camp.

one of the many many many reasons why p99 is retarded, because i would get banned for moving in and taking the camp despite him being obviously asleep/afk

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>>377941467
>Trying to move goalposts after getting BTFO

>>377941530
>>377937073
>bext xpac is the one that started killing the game with dungeon finder
makes you think

>>377940624
I didn't raid regularly until BC, but I tend to agree. Wrath was great up to Ulduar, but after that it nosedove pretty hard.

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>>377941680
I said I wasn't him. I was adding a bit into the conversation. I don't care of your goalposts.

>>377941726
>Dungeon finder
>Bad
>Samefagging this hard
makes you think

>>377941726
Dungeon finder was added with a patch.

>>377940076
>grows during vanilla cause it's good
>grows in tbc cause it's good
>in wotlk it stagnates, people go "eh?.. hope it gets better"
>cata on it drops cause people see they are killing the game

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>tfw you had the best times in wow in cata mop and wod
>tfw everyone is shitting on your favorite expansions

>>377940860
No, people will play through the path of least resistance, and they will spoil it for everyone instead of having an even playing field. You cannot add cheats into a multiplayer game and say oh well you can play without them if you want. You are being forced in order to be competitive.
Allow for cosmetic mods, but remove gameplay addons. If something is necessary, as in a quality of life thing as opposed to influencing gameplay, like the auction house addons, then code those as a game feature.

>>377939882
>Activate Windows
God damn it anon, just get a fixer.

>>377941875
>removing one of the major sources of being social in the game
>good

so you know nothing about mmorpgs?

>>377941592

It's a mixed bag for me. I think the low lvl content is too easy but then I don't really feel like marking mobs, doing CC and executing perfect pulls for content I've done for the gorillionth time.

You guys need to remember that WoW statistically doesn't have new players anymore. In the US and
western Europe almost every gamer in the target audience has already played at some point.

>>377941056
still invalid my man

>>377941501
which is why their player base dramatically increased over the course of vanilla.

>>377941501
Tell me of the trial mode in vanilla.

>>377940826
>private servers are free of any and all running costs
>private servers dont take ANY donations

:thinking:

You've reached a whole new level of stupidity

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>>377942176
If my memory serves, you could play until level... 15? Or a week or two.

>>377937293
DRs exist for a reason. they give you a trinket for a reason. they didn't remove human racials for reason. they didn't remove undead racials for a reason. you have (or should have) a healer in 3s for a reason. almost every class has some kind of immunity now for a reason. everyone's scaled to the same ilvl in instanced pvp for a reason.

get good or shut up. if anything, that statement applies to OW more than it does to WoW.
>5.5 second sleep
>6 second silence (sombra)
>2.5 second knockdown with a massive hitbox

go complain about OW instead of WoW. you're directing your hate at the wrong game

>>377942353
that wasnt added until wotlk if i remember correctly

>>377942107
>Afking in town shouting LFG
>social

so you know nothing about mmorpgs?

>>377942019

>You are being forced in order to be competitive.

Mods were always a requirement for competitive players since the very beginning though. If you don't like one you can't like the other, they're pretty much the same.

>>377942459
There was a free trial in both Vanilla and Burning Crusade.
He is correct, though it was until level 20 and 10 days.

>>377942459
I distinctly remember it in vanilla because I used it.

>>377942563
>ugh I hate socializing in mmos, why can't they just like... leave me alone, I'm a lone wolf

>>377942592
>>377942636
oh alright thanks for clearing that up

>>377941903
wat

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Blade and Soul made 40 million dollars last quarter; selling pay2win items and dress up.

I would be surprised if WoW has 2 million players. Fucking Overwatch made blizz more than a billion dollars. Gaming is shit and unsalvageable.

>>377934347
>also pvp being literally broken for months

Has there EVER been a period in wow history where pvp WASN'T broken?

>>377942726
>Blade and Soul made 40 million dollars last quarter
I really love the combat in BnS, but I truly hate the god awful grind and shitty NCSoft servers that will never ever be fixed.
>Gaming is shit and unsalvageable.
The industry has been shit at least 10 years by now, you'll get used to it at some point.

>>377938952
Man, I was really excited about Hyjal, but that fact that half of it was on fire, really killed some of the hype for me

>>377937257
>t. MoP BooBoo

>>377942570
Addons trivialize content. One thing is using addons to clear high endgame content, and the other is using addons for every small thing. The experience of a hardcore raider barely changed since vanilla, if anything it got better since bosses got more engaging mechanics.
The problem is that hardcore players using addons led to casuals using addons, which led to addons being implemented by blizzard into the game.
Addons were one of the things that killed the game, it's not even arguable.

>>377942815
i meant literally as really literally
a hunter would target you
press stampede
and you were dead
0 dmg in combatlog
just dead
this was in the game for atleast 2 months until they could fix it

>>377942145
You're still a faggot.

>>377938480
Then why did you feel the need to reply? Your post reeks of mmo-champion high horse dung.

I bet you're lying anyway.

>>377942815
No, its literally impossible to balance the myriad of classes and possible specs. Then you add in access to PvE gear.

That said, you can at least try. Look at how useless paladins were at everything in PvE until mid to late WotLK where they became "OK, but not PMR," barring that short, short period of time where DIVINE STORM did holy damage and healed at the same time. God the bitching about paladins in PvP was great.

>>377942726
This is why Blizzard made an entirely new business model out of WoW. Instead of focusing on re-expanding the player base, they just made an in-game shop with cosmetic trash. That compensated for the 6 million player loss in subscriptions.

This is why you don't buy games from publicly traded companies. It's why Valve remains a decent company with lots of officially supported modding and community activities while WoW turned into a Jewish shitfest. It's the ultimate proof that Blizzard LITERALLY doesn't give a shit about gaming.

>>377942252
No one is forcing you to pay. How is it shilling?

>>377943004
I partly agree, but Blizzard should have killed support for particular addons and called it "against ToS" or "cheating" or something, such as Quest Helper etc.

I have never, not once in my life, met someone who thought WotLK was better than vanilla/TBC.

You would have to be some kind of 18 year old shitter with a two-digit IQ to believe that.

>>377943361
>A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services.


who said forced?

>>377943004

>Addons trivialize content.

No shit, that's the whole point really. Maybe you can start a guild that forbids DBM and see how much it's going to be.

>>377933058
>why is leveling (5+ yr old content lmao) so easy?!
I mean, its like the game is designed around current content and not old ass cata content, sometimes older.

>>377943004
The funny thing is that for all the crying about WoW being shit it's actually pretty good for a hardcore raider. Only bad thing was the ability pruning but it's still pretty damn good. Only casuals are suffering.

>>377943561
didnt alot of big raiding guilds quit in legion?
or did that have other reasons?
not trying to be a dick just curious

>>377943490
Exactly. By being forced to play with cheats, the people who enjoy the game as it was meant to be have to ruin their experience in order to avoid being second class players. Addons caused that.

>>377943419
I don't think even the smartest developers could have foreseen how much addons would trivialize content.

>>377943561
Just because the higher tier raids are themselves good, with interesting boss mechanics, doesn't make the game as a whole good if virtually every aspect of the game outside of the boss fights, are utter trash.

>>377943482
>the team receiving sparse donations are shilling on 4chan
Surely, you jesting

>>377943870
Pretty much.
The only fun things in WoW nowadays are being in a top mythic raiding guild maybe or trying to finish your mount/pet collection. That's about it.

>>377935106
Feral druid does okay right now, but there is a very steep curve for doing good damage and doing bad damage. It isn't like other classes where there is an easy to see middle of the pack. This is because it is mechanically one of the worst designed classes in the game, fortunately nighthold, even on mythic, has strongly favored melee dps allowing for very good uptime as melee dps.

>>377937607
Well, anything is "viable" but that doesn't mean you want to play it. You want to play a class that is mechanically fun and in demand if you want to do high end content with reasonably competitive players, hence why very few people are playing MW, as they don't put out great numbers and don't even fill a good healing niche like rshaman does.

>>377943674
Yes and others took their place. If anything the problem is that there are no new players to fill in their ranks, since less and less people want to go through the torture that is non-high end wow.
Think about the lifecycle of an early-wow player, he started playing because his friends told him it was a fun game. He enjoyed the leveling, the world and the raids, and decided that he wanted to dedicate more time to the hardest content. Right now, who the fuck is going to be attracted to the game? The end content is there, but the game itself is not enticing.

>>377929282
it's way past it's prime and utter shit. don't bother with it.

>>377929282
MMOs were created as games with seamless multiplayer connectivity, gameplay be damned. The genre is and always has been godawful for this reason.

>>377943002
>t. wrath babby

>>377929282
I don't even know how people can play this game anymore. Warlocks have like four or five offensive spells, unless youre playing affliction and then I don't even know how you play that in neo-WoW. It's a game designed for the most extreme babby casual single mother.

>>377943958
I will say that just about the only genuinely good thing they added to the game post-vanilla was Achievements, because it actually stirred interest in older or under-used content and made personal goals more interesting. The problem is that most other things they added had hugely negative effects long term.

Even flying mounts... everyone loved it at first but in hindsight it was a massive mistake.

>>377943727

Blizzard has a place for people who refuse to use addons, it's called LFR.

It's kind of ridiculous that you think addons are a problem, it just depends on what your goals within the game are. If you want to raid at anything above absolutely casual level people are going to require things from you. Even MMOs that don't allow modding still have ways of optimizing performance that people serious about the game are required to follow.

>>377943992
>This is because it is mechanically one of the worst designed classes in the game
That's what I was trying to say.
Is it viable? Technically yes. Though its' playstyle is just clunky as fuck and the damage you deal isn't really enough to warrant forcing yourself into using it.

>>377943674
Most hardcore raiding guilds are quitting over AP grinding, which is still one of the biggest sticking points in Legion because no one fucking likes it.
Some of the most recent ones broke up because they simply weren't competitive enough as guilds to do the world first race and have a chance.

>>377944486
yeah flying mounts seem cool on paper but the consequences are bad

>>377943958
Pretty much. I only found fun in Transmog/Mount collecting.
I got enough tokens to for 6 months, but I don't think that's enough incentive to use em

>>377944521
>>Most hardcore raiding guilds are quitting over AP grinding
I know that they're hardcore raiding guilds, but they should have realized that the AP grind is too retarded to force themselves through the first time around with "only" 54 traits.

>>377929282
The only time I tried playing WoW post-wotlk, I could 100-0 mobs from range, while taking barely any damage, while running a healing spec. I would never go oom, I wouldn't need any food, drinks, or potions.
So yeah. I don't want to be your typical "IT WAS BETTER BEFORE" nostalgia elitist, but it just doesn't cut it for me. Leveling is kinda a chore, so I'd rather have it being just challenging enough for me to consider which fights I want to pick.

I haven't played WoW much recently though. Quickly hooked back into it last year for a progressive wotlk server, ran naxx and ulduar, then I gave up because my sleep schedule was too screwed up to raid.

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>>377929282
What if WOW had dark souls gameplay?

>>377944703
Do you mean Monster Hunter gameplay?

You can't argue that Vanilla didn't have flaws, but is there anyone here who seriously believe that it was a bad game for its time?

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>Everyone shittalking retail WoW
>I havent played sinced early WotLK. (played Vanilla and TBC)
>Decided to buy Legion and start questing
>Its fun as fuck

This board is full of salty vanilla fags.

>>377944501
You can't play without mods. Early vanilla questing mods got implemented into the core game because everyone was using them. /v/ sure loves to whine about the witcher 3 showing you the way but this is even worse.
And saying that you can play without the cheat addons but you can only do LFR? Nobody will want to be a second rate player like that, forcing them to install the addons (ie. legal cheats)

>>377944703
Why does everything need to be souls shit to you faggots on /v/? Are you guys ONLY good at souls? Is that why you only talk about non fighting games like Smash?

>>377944667
Well, the entire point of being a high end mythic guild is being at the very peak of performance as soon as possible. This means optimally splitting gear and getting whatever advantage you can, and at the time, when AP grinding gave HUGE advantages, it was a big deal.
Now, with concordance we don't have to worry about it as much unless you have alts you want to grind up, because that will still suck,

>>377938023
MoP baby at it again

>>377944703
It would need to have survival mechanics to be truly good

>>377944817
You aren't allowed to enjoy things on /v/.
You are only allowed to be a bitter nostalgiafag whining about "the good old days".

>>377944953
Nope

>>377929282

Welcome to new world of warcraft.

Back then dungeons used to be

>LFM X DUNGEON on zone chat
>everyone had to run all the way to the dungeon while chatting and enjoying themselves
>Hunter had to fetch ammo and feed their pet
>doing a dungeon meant stopping once in a while for getting back health and mana
>at the end of the dungeon, people would add each other for more of them later

Now it's just fucking bullshit.

>>377944698
cata was the killing blow blizzard dealt to wow. there was no coming back after that.

>>377932224
haha, you accidentally complimented an expansion.
I bet you feel so embarrassed right now.

>>377944864
The problem with the AP grind is that you had to do what, 2000+ dungeons? And on several alts as well.
I'd rather commit suicide than ever do the grind, I got to 54 far far ahead of other people simply by doing the AP World Quests every god damn day.
I'm unfortunately 2 Knowledge Researches behind due to not playing when 7.2 was launched, so I'll forever be screwed until I reach 50 Knowledge 8 days later than everyone else.

>>377942886
>but I truly hate the god awful grind
They seriously made this the most painful shit ever.

>>377944817
You're playing diablo 3 not wow.

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>>377944817
>Everyone shittalking retail WoW
>I havent played sinced early WotLK. (played Vanilla and TBC)
>Decided to buy Legion and start questing
>It's fucking garbage

Didn't even play for a week. At least I didn't have to pay for my sub.

>>377945119
it's actually interesting how intense the social aspect was back then. i made a few irl friends in vanilla and we had a super solid realm culture.

i played nostalrius for 1 year and in that 1 year i made 2 irl friends and we had a guild meetup, lol. says a lot about what's happened.