Do you save scum? Is a game that makes you save scum just

>>377784431
There are no games that "make you" savescum. Especially not stuff like XCOM. Yes, you sometimes get bad results that you can't realistically do anything about in games like this, like missing a shot and getting crit in return, but that's just part of the game. If something like that makes you savescum, that just means you're mentally incapable of accepting minor setbacks, even if those setbacks are wholly expected to occur now and then. That's a sign of an immature and undeveloped mind.

Good luck with real life.

ys chronicles

>>377784431
I can't stop myself and go full OCD when I can save scum. If you could see my gameplay from start to finish as a single play-through (imagine you skip all the reload) then it would be flawless. Really can't stop myself.

>>377784431
Yeah, I saved Trevor

>>377784671
>play smart
>do well
>suddenly out of the ether a cock materializes and starts slapping you across the face
>"just keep playing breh, its part of the experience"

>>377784872
>genre is known for slapping you across the face with cocks
>all the other games in the series have had cocks appear and start slapping you in the face
>you still buy the game

fag

>>377784671
>play Kamidori on hard
>don't get +HP on the first level-up
>lose to the raptor in the final room of the tutorial dungeon
Shit sucks.

>>377784671
>playing Europa Universalis
>want to check if declaring war would bring France into it
>yes it would, dang
>OH SHIT I DIDNT CLICK CANCEL I DECLARED THE WAR
>20 hour campaign down the dumpster because of a missclick
>minor setback

>>377784872
No need to greentext, what you wrote is 100% true. You should have known this before even getting into the game. If you're an immature player who wants to play a game where you can only win and nothing bad will ever happen, XCOM is a bad game for you.

Learning to deal with unexpected setbacks is just as much part of XCOM as it is of real life. If you even can't do that, you're going to have a bad time.

Kinda necessary in Rimworld for surgeries and crafting.

Though I've played A17 a while now with a lot of success with simple surgeries, so Tynan might have fixed that.

It's still retarded that a Godtier crafter cranks out poor and normal items more than masterwork and legendary.

>>377785043
That's not the game's fault though, that's just you being a moron who misclicked.

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>>377784431
>Do you save scum?
No, because I don't play casualshit games that allow me to. I play games where you have to carry the burden of your failures through the entire campaign.

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pic related is the best game. it's a turn based stealth puzzle tactics game, and it just autosaves whatever state you're in so you can't savescum, but it also gives you a number of turn rewinds or level restarts depending on your difficulty setting. I think this is a better approach than letting you save all the time, but having no recourse if you fuck up or the game fucks you other than to eat shit or savescum

The only acceptable time to savescum is if you run into a bug and can't progress normally. And I wouldn't even consider that savescumming, really.

Any other form of savescumming is for babbys and casuals, no exceptions..

>>377785043
>deliberately wants to see how the game will turn out if he goes with option A over option B
>missclick

Nigga, what?

>>377785129
>archer ends up 1 handed
GG.

I'm playing alien isolation and I really like the saving system there

>>377784671
I think people just automatically equate failure with game over.

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>>377785319
>mutant archer gets "gifted" a crab claw mutation that prevents him from using ranged weapons
T-thanks for the gift, Slaanesh.

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>>377784431
>>377784671
HOW QUICKLY THE TIDE TURNS

>>377785368
Maybe 10 years ago. Dark Souls, Darkest Dungeons and all the rogue-lite games changed it.
Now people are comfortable with the concept of repeated failure until you make it, without a set GAME OVER that needs a restart.
You just need a sense of progression even in your failed runs, some smaller general gain. Shooters and MOBAs have you gain currency or levels or items, whatever unlocks, in between games. So even when you lose, you gain something.

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>>377784431
I have nothing against savescumming, but I don't like when people use it in games designed around shit like permadeath and other permanent changes. If you're using savescumming what's the fucking point of playing on ironman in the first place? I think where this really became obvious to me was in modern Fire Emblems and the way people play them.

>durrr savescumming is bad

obviously, it's in the name. but in a game that lets you save whenever you feel like and relies only on you saving, you have to come up with your own saving and loading policy, which is retarded desu

>oops, can't save now, that would be savescumming

>you saved the game more than zero times? I consider that savescumming, you're a casual now

I'd prefer the game to decide and have it factored into the difficulty. assuming it's a game that isn't supposed to just be trivially easy casual stuff

>>377785129
Wat game, and is it gud?

>>377785621
A lot of people, myself included, would restart a chapter if a unit kicked the bucket. It was done to casualize it and is one of the few changes I agree with.

>>377785757
mordheim

>>377785757
You've never seen Mordheim before? Wow, fucking really?

>>377785782
Yeah, but that's the whole point - why would you intentionally play with permadeath if you don't want to stick with the consequences? I don't mind casual difficulty if that's what you want to play on because that's not really an issue for me.

>>377785627
You're retarded.

Savescumming doesn't mean saving the game. Savescumming means reloading the game until you get a good result.

If you just save the game, regardless of when and where you save, so you can stop and continue later on, there's literally nothing wrong with that. If you reload after getting an actual Game Over (assuming it's not Iron Man Mode or something similar), that's also not really wrong since in 99% of the cases that's intended behavior.

But if you reload every time something unfortunate happens, that's savescumming. And for most games it's not only casual as fuck, but it actively makes the game worst by essentially removing an entire layer of difficulty, i.e. recovering from bad events. Like in X-COM, losing soldiers occasionally is entirely expected and even intended. If you reload every time you lose someone, even if you lose a whole squad, you're essentially just admitting that you're too casual for X-COM.

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>>377785627
Mordheim does it best, IMO.

>can hire as many units as you want throughout the game as long as you have money
>if a unit falls in battle, he won't necessarily end up dead afterwards, he will just get a permanent injury most of the time and has a small chance to recover without injuries as well
>game autosaves on every action you make and prevents you from saving yourself
>you can lose combat simply from your squad morale dropping too low
>all of the aforementioned points mean that not every mission is a team wipe with everyone ending up dead
>still can't lose more than a couple of missions per certain time period, because you have a quite strict time limit to deliver loot periodically and if you fail to meet it, it's game over

>>377785757
Mordheim. The game is amazing mechanically, but it suffers from a shit interface and a slow start. It's also VERY frustrating to new players, who are used to savescumming and cannot deal with failure. It has both story and random mission play and is easily worth some 300+ hours of playtime if you try to do every campaign.

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>>377786014
>why would you intentionally play with permadeath if you don't want to stick with the consequences?
Same reason achievements are a thing: E-Penis status.
>Its not enough to play video games
>I must show everyone that I play video games

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>>377786136
>mfw save devs are now making Necromunda

>>377786136
The worst thing about Mordheim is THE FUCKING LIBRARY JESUS CHRIST I HATE THAT LEVEL SO FUCKING MUCH.

Also the AI getting stuck on scenery/doorframes/jump points almost constantly.

>>377786080
I'm not retarded. being able to / having to save the game is related to the discussion. I think having to make up your own rules for when you're allowed to save and load is dumb. I think if xcom did it like invisible inc for example where there is no saving or loading, just limited rewinds, it would be better for everyone. instead of making internet neckbeards argue about what is casual or not, just strip it out of the game and actually balance the difficulty rather than hoping everyone shames each other into playing "properly"

I savescum quite a bit, mainly as losing hours of progress is a complete waste of my time.

>>377786331
The library is probably the hardest and longest mission I've ever played in a SRPG/turn based tactics game. You have to deal with unlimited enemy reinforcements while having limited resources and unit health (healing is extremely hard) in a game where a single crit can give you a permanent injury and turn your max level unit into a borderline worthless wreck. But there's no greater feeling of satisfaction once you finish that mission, because you know you've conquered arguably the most bullshit mission in SRPGs ever.

>>377786331
>AI getting stuck
Yeah, that's a problem, mostly because how convoluted the entire city layout is. I just hope the devs improve their pathfinding code in Necromunda.

>>377786338
>I'm not retarded.
Yes, you are.

Being able to reload constantly doesn't make reloading constantly not casual.

For example, if you're playing an RPG and you save before opening a chest, then you reload until that chest gives you a 1% drop or whatever. Is that possible? Sure. Is that legal within the limits of the game engine (i.e. not outright cheating)? Sure. But nobody in their right mind would think of trying to argue that it's intended gameplay.

Reloading because you want to continue an earlier game is normal and expected. Reloading because you hit a bug or crashed is normal and expected. Reloading because you got a Game over is (in most games) normal and expected. But you can't sit there and straight-faced claim that reloading because you lost a dude in X-Com, reloading because you didn't get the drop you wanted, etc. is normal or expected, because this way you're actively using reloading to circumvent parts of the actual gameplay in order to make everything easier for yourself.

If the only way you can stop savescumming is if the game literally makes savescumming an impossibility, then the problem lies with you and you might want to take a moment to stop and reconsider why you're savescumming in the first place.

So you're either retarded, or you're just a huge casual in denial.

>>377786636
>>377786331
Oh, wait, you meant the daemon infested library. It's not that hard compared to the Empire merc mission where you have to gather blessed water from the fountains (that's the mission I've meant in my post) while fighting off unlimited enemy spawns. Now THAT's pure fucking bullshit.

>Fe14c
>play sakura's map
>send Xander to attack Hana
>he misses
>Hana rolls Rend Heaven
>Xander dies
>faggot op tells me what I should do in a game I paid 40 bucks for

>>377786136
Oh shit son, thanks. I got it confused with Vermintide and thought it was an MP game.

I know what I'll be sinking the next month of my life into, Mordheim was my jam in highschool.

>>377784431
i dont save scum

its just not very fun playing games that way i think

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I am vastly ashamed by my near compulsive need to savescum.
When I see a move that I could have done better, or a shot that would have made my life easier, or a unit I could have saved, it eats away at me.

I'm trying to take steps to accept the results regardless of outcome, but it's not too easy for me to shake off.

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>>377784671
>game has bad design and relies on rng
>heh, good luck with real life kiddo

>>377786753
I don't hate the library because it's hard, I hate it because you got to go through all those fucking teleports looking for books that as far as I know just randomly spawn and then fight the fucker at the end who likes to become invincible because fuck chaos. It's just so much running around on different levels that it frustrates the fuck out of me.

Second time I got a mission there, I cheesed that place to fuck by hiring two Globadiers and just poisoning the librarian constantly, because those poison globes entirely bypass his invincibility.

I save before each mission and reload if it goes really bad, but otherwise not really. I'd never scum in a roguelike, though.

>>377786926
But every game relies on RNG. Even Chess does.

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ITT: Children who grew up being taught that "everyone is a winner" and are literally incapable of accepting a loss no matter what

>>377784431
I consider quicksave/quickload to be the best system, compared to checkpoints, losing experience/gold or restarting from last manual limited save, restarting the entire game or others I forgot

I don't care if people see it in a bad light and call it "save scumming"

So in the opposite of considering it to be bad design, I consider it to be good

>>377786782
>I got it confused with Vermintide
They're set in the same setting - Warhammer Fantasy Battles.

>>377787645
>all these Warhammer Fantasy games coming out lately
>Total War Warhammer
>Vermintide
>Mordheim
>Man O' War Corsair
>meanwhile the real Warhammer Fantasy is dead and replaced with Age of Sigmar

I really do not understand GW's strategy here.

>>377787205
how the fuck does chess rely on rng

>>377787856
Not him, but the decision on who goes first.

>>377787826
>I really do not understand GW's strategy here.
These games sprung out of the ground after WHFB died, so you can't really blame GW. GW "improved" the setting and added not Spessh Muhreens after they got fed up with WHFB minis selling like putrid dogshit and now they sell better, so, from a business POV, it wasn't a bad decision. It's just sad that a good setting had to die for this.

Xcom 2 is poorly designed so fuck it I don't feel bad about save scumming it at all.

Either make my dudes expendable and die easy or important and hard to kill. Making them important and fragile is poor game design. Although important and immortal like in Xcom 1 is bad game design too. For different reasons.

>>377787353
It doesn't always have to be a "loss". Are you too narrowminded to realize that? Certain games encourage you to experiment and just see what happens. You can use saving and loading as means of saving time and not having to redo a segment if you want to screw around with a game. Or are you one of those "IT ONLY HAS TO BE PLAYED LIKE THIS!" autists? Your posts reek of fedora already as is.

>>377787353
>top google searches
>guy at arby's deaf or just ignoring me

>>377784431
>playing XCOM2 without save scum
You fucking mad? This game was designed for save/load jerking. Enemies literally have quatas on succeful hits.

>>377784872
You're not playing smart if a cock can just come in and slap you without you doing anything about it.

>>377788231
>quatas
Wat

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>Alongside this massive scale, the development of the actual characters is vital, and there’s a greater focus on building and enhancing your squad than in Mordheim.
>You build your squad, much as you did in Mordheim, and the members follow you, gain experience and progress. That’s very dear to us, the progression, and we want to go much further than we did in Mordheim.
>We want to make sure that whichever House you play, and there are six, you have a very unique experience. That goes to the locations they inhabit, the jobs they do, the equipment they use. So there are biker gangs, industrial workers, and they’re all distinct. The Houses come straight from Games Workshop and so does the vertical aspect, directly from the tabletop game.
>The architecture will be responsible for the biggest tactical shift. Combat mostly takes place from a distance rather than up close and personal, and weapon ranges will be one of the most important tactical considerations. Using cover to get close enough to fire a high power, low range weapon, or pinning opponents down with sniper fire. Range isn’t just horizontal lines across the battlefield though, you’ll need to keep track of enemies above and below.

GET HYPE

I try not to save scum (anymore), and yes I think any games that still allow it are cheating their way out of fine-tuning player progression. Using cheats for fun is one thing, but having a dedicated "avoid any real challenge" button is a bit dumb.

>>377788063
Just bring some expendable soldiers and shove them into kill-zones to keep your important soldiers from dying.

>>377789161
I'm going to play XCOM2 on the hardest difficulty setting on ironman soon, are there any particular specifics I should be aware of? I've played the first game and a shitton of turn based tactics games, so I know the genreal stuff, I just want to know if there are some game specific tips I need to know before doing a a first-time ironman run.

>>377784671
>playing xcom 2
>A-team squad out on VIP extraction
>everything by the numbers, nothing but superficial damage
>get to building, extraction point on roof
>advent throws grenade, takes out the wall with the ladder to the roof
>no possible way to climb up
>mission failed entire squad MIA
>in one turn a perfect run becomes an unwinnable, unsalvageable, unavoidable total party kill through no fault of my own
>lel thads xgom bby :DDD

kys

>>377789341
>in one turn a perfect run becomes an unwinnable, unsalvageable, unavoidable total party kill through no fault of my own
Huh, couldn't you just retreat to the Skyranger or whatever?

>>377789161
That's bad game design. And you can't even do that because you have such limited deployment slots anyways.
If you actually could bring meat shields that'd be something but because of how powerful your soldiers are the game would be trivial if you could bring an extra couple along.
Xcom2 is so close to great but the importance placed on the individual soldier just kills it.

>>377789270

Uh, why not just play a normal game first to familiarize yourself with the mechanics?

Also, I don't recommend using the XCOM 2 ironman setting. There are way too many bugs that can cause you to lose the game/a mission. Just use restraint and don't reload.

>enemies getting trapped under the floor/in a rock making you unable to complete the mission
>evac zone of a mission gets destroyed and isn't respawned
>once had a really weird bug where the final room enemies started spawning before reaching the final room

>>377789458
No, those mission types have a single unalterable extraction point and anyone who doesnt make it there is kill

Whole squad was dead as soon as that grenade went off

Baldur's Gate is a game I save scum in far too much.

Tried playing it once with only save allowed per session and it turned into a totally different game - way the fuck more intense and fun until I died.

>>377789601
>with only one* save allowed per session

>>377786014
So I can kill off units I don't like.

>>377784431
That's most games then, games with permadeath are a minority.

>>377788697

Definetely not. The developpers are incompetent Frenchmen.

They left the first game as a buggy mess, once they cashed in on it. They changed the modheim system for some weird percentage based BS, that was completely obstructed. Almost zero individualization for your gang members and no multiplayer, because they didn't bother with the code.

Some entitled amateurs, these guys are. The artdirection is the only thing they got right.

>>377784431
>Is a game that makes you save scum just badly designed?
YES

>>377789547
You only really need between 2-3 really good soldiers to do all the killing while the rest run around dangerous areas to spot the enemy.

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>>377789341
are you me?

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>>377784431
There's a difference between
>I made a mistake that lead to the demise of my entire squad
and
>std::rand() said "fuck you" and I lost the game

In the latter example not only it is acceptable to save scum.
A little bit of RNG in a game is fine, but basing your core gameplay around it is retarded.

>>377787904
white always goes first
fuck do people not know how to play chess anymore?

>>377789558
Wow, XCOM2 sounds to be bugged as fuck. Guess I'll just wait until all the DLC is released and bugs are ironed out, before getting it. Thanks for the heads-up.

>>377790137
>In the latter example not only it is acceptable to save scum, but it's expected from developer point of view.

fixed

>>377790253

It doesn't happen that often, but having it happen once in 30 hours is enough to ruin an ironman playthrough.

>>377790090
he cant keep getting away with it

>>377790191
>white always goes first
M8, the person who plays white first is determined by drawing lots in Tourneys, then the players alternate. Keeping in mind that an uneven number of matches is played, the player who gets to play white first has a slight, but statistically measurable advantage.

>>377790454
Out of curiousity:
in a a game that doesn't allow you to pass your turn, is going first always an advantage? I can imagine there are situation's that you would prefer for the enemy to move first to read his intentions and set up a trap.

>>377790554
>is going first always an advantage
I don't know about always, BUT:
>Since 1851, compiled statistics support this view; White consistently wins slightly more often than Black, usually scoring between 52 and 56 percent. White's winning percentage[1] is about the same for tournament games between humans and games between computers. However, White's advantage is less significant in blitz games and games between novices.

>>377790612
You see 52-56% isn't enough to convince me. You can't expect a perfect 50% win-lose rate even in a completely balanced game.
2% for sure, but even 6% is enough to compliment uneven skill between opponents.

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>>377784431
I save scummed the first time I played 1. I then beat it on Ironman. I save scummed the first time I played 2. I haven't played it again yet. Next time I play it I'll get the Ironman for that as well.

I used to save scum with Gotcha Force.
Mainly because their were optional allies you had to win against multiple times to get them.
They were fucking tough too, having multiple of strong borgs you couldn't match up to at the point of the game.
Mostly had to cheese the fight by playing keep away.
i played it a long time ago on the Gamecube when I was a kid and I stood no chance.
If only I knew that it unlocked special mode, where you could attempt to farm borgs.
Really wish their were more games like this.

>>377784671

>That's a sign of an immature and undeveloped mind

Expecting intelligent strategies to produce a positive reward is immature? Welcome to 2017

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Every game with an RNG mechanic (crit, dodge, random effects) should not ever be considered an e-sport.
Prove me wrong.

>>377791135
nobody gives a fuck about esports m8

>>377791174
Hundreds of thousands of tournament goers and viewers disagree with you.

>>377790816
I don't CARE what you think

>>377791232
nobody who matters gives a fuck about esports, there

>>377784431
Yes. No.

I quite enjoy the really hard but forgiving style of gameplay. Sort of slowly whittling away at the same problem until you manage to break through and do what feels like some Matrix type shit. Often leads me try out new cool tactics as well.
Though obviously it depends on the game.

>>377791316
I find it extremely moronic to tell someone you don't 'care' about something and use an "I" pronoun in the same sentence.

What I'm trying to tell you is "fuck off".

>>377791334
Esports will live on long after you are dead. How does that make you feel?

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>>377790441
I definitely cant

>>377784431
>Is a game that makes you save scum just badly designed?
IMO manual saving is a must simply because having to redo (part of) an area even though you didn't die is retarded

If people choose to abuse this feature, well, their loss. Why would I care what other people do in a single player game?

>>377791446
fine given the likelihood of that is 0% as long as i dont get run over tomorrow

>>377791443
Lol tl;dr nigger bitch

I usually don't but I definitely do with XCOM 2, one of my favourite games but there are a lot of LOS bugs and weird design choices that can make everything very dull and annoying, specially after you mod it to hell and it becomes impossible to know what's causing what problem.
Also, the fact that LW2 doesn't tell literally anything about whats going on in the game makes it particularly savescummable.

>>377786014
Specifically in fire emblem's case having someone you care about die 2 hours into a really long and hard chapter is pretty horrible to reset on, theres no guarantee you'll get back to where you were without any issues and even if you do it'll still take a long time so there's still a penalty

Games with saving/loading as a way to circumvent death/failure penalty are fundamentally flawed in my opinion though its a little weird cause ultimately all penalties are simply lost time in real life, one way or another. You either replay a section or have to regather some kind of resource

Theres two opposite extremes you see with it, something like Wings of Vi has almost no death penalty (instant infinite respawns right in front of the current thing you're stuck on) but it demands a ton of precision and ability whereas something like Dark souls punishes you much harder for death but is way way more forgiving in terms of what it asks of you

I dunno what the answer is, i've both enjoyed and found both types frustrating in the past

>>377791814
Don't reply to me.

Is using emulator speedup in a game with slow canned animations cheating

>>377792309
is skipping through cutscenes or dialogue cheating

>>377792309
>>377792359
>is x cheating
Take it from our boys at /xcg/, if you're asking, you know it is.

>>377792417
go back to fapping to snaketits you freak

>>377792417
Is pausing a game to do rl stuff cheating

>>377792505
Considering how often XCOM 2 crashes, I've came to believe even playing the game is cheating
>>377792449
Snek is purely for removal, I only fap to qt snipers with hippie glasses and Anarchy's Children spider suit (god tier sideboob)

>>377786620
>I always want to win, never lose
You're not playing a game at that point, because in games an essential part of the system is losing.

>soccer goalie lets a game-winning goal get scored against him
>h-h-hey wait guys we're not supposed to lose
>reload game to 5 minutes prior
>tell your faggot defender to be at the right place at the right time

What's the bloody point? That's like watching a movie with a pre-determined plot.

>>377793040
But isnt that literally what a movie is?

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>>377784431
Depends on the game.
The primary determinant for savescumming is forced permadeath.
Unreasonable amounts of lost time are also a considerable determinant. Losing a 30 hour game (not just a mission, but the game itself) of XCOM doesn't make me feel good. It doesn't encourage me to "git gud". It just makes me feel like I've wasted a lot of time.

In pic related I'll alternate between savescumming and taking my losses depending on how "critical" the loss was.
For example:
>tank dies
>still have one in reserve, so make my way back and swap them out
>reserve members gain XP steadily so they're not COMPLETELY behind
>can still "move forward" somewhat, just need to take small detours for XP gain and play somewhat more conservatively
but then
>reserve tank dies
>original hasn't finished recovering yet
Is when I bust out the savescumming to the max. Because at that point I have to stop moving forward and spend ages dicking about in low-level areas, gaining nothing in the process.


Moral of the story: Permadeath in longer-form games (not short things that you'll spend like 30-40 minutes max per "session" on like FTL, Issac, etc.) is fucking shit and for masochists.

>caring how other people play and experience videogames

I never understood this about /v/

>>377794042
Autists cannot empathize, so they can't conceive of people experiencing things differently.

>>377784431
look at that fucking nog

>>377794042
>caring about how people do anything
yeah i put ketchup on my well-done steak and watch TV/film with dubs instead of subs

it's your right to do those things, and it's my right to correctly call you a shiteating plebeian.

>>377784671
fucking faggot thats what you are

>>377793857
>things I am not capable of handling are for deviants
That is a dangerously stupid way of thinking.
You could have said that it is not for you or the majority of people and come out looking somewhat wise, but now you look the opposite.

>>377785043
Just task manager -> End Process that shit nigga, game can't auto-save on close if you do that.

>>377784671
i dont save scum but if you lose your A-squad in one mission (especially early on) 9 times out of 10 keeping on playing just results in you getting a game over from attrition

>>377794651
>getting the docks mission early on

Hell is real.

Savescumming is only acceptable if the game bugged out, in any other case you are a little bitch. Most of games lose all the fun the moment you start savescumming especially 4x games, whats the point of playing crusader kings or total war, or xcom, or civ if everytime you make a mistake you reload?

the only times I've had fun in such games is during a shitty run, when things just keep going to shit and you have to struggle to stay afloat. Whats the point of perfect boring runs? where is the challenge in that>

>>377784431
Only acceptable level of savescumming, especially in XCOM is saving before going on the mission and reloading only if your whole a-team gets wiped out
Otherwise, losing one soldier isn't going to matter in the long run, if you can't do that, you're just a shitter who can't accept failure

>>377795204
>Most of games lose all the fun the moment you start savescumming especially 4x games

I don't understand how you can save scum in 4x/grand strategy because your loss is the result of many decisions and not a single one. You'd have to reload a save from hours and hours ago.

>>377795358
>start war against country X
>win a few battles
>lose one
>savescum
>win more battles
>country Y declares war on you while you're too occupied with the war against X
>savescum
>if they keep declaring war then load an older save and try to end war with X earlier
>if war with X is unwinnable then load an old save and never declare war
There's a bunch of ways

>>377784431
I wish I had when I first played X-COM.
>my best soldier dies
>realize I haven't saved in forever
>lose all motivation to keep playing

I'll start over again one day.

>>377795610

At that point you've spent more time trying to save scum than actually playing the game.

I savescum to relieve tedium, like grinding for specific items with low drop%.

>>377796530
I do too, but I think that feeds into the question OP had about the game being badly designed. Personally I feel any game with unnecessary tedium and grind (which is basically any at all) is badly designed.

>>377784671
I used to think likethis until i tried playing Xcom on classic + ironman.
Fuck thinmen

>>377784431
I will savescum if a game has a lot of RNG bullshit, farming, etc. I feel like if a dev makes a game that is designed to shit on the player to artificially bloat playtime, I am perfectly justified in shitting on that dev's intentions.

>>377790969
>Expecting intelligent strategies to produce a positive reward is immature?
They do reward you. They always have.
It's just not always enough, and you have to roll with the punches.
It's funny how you whiny fags always crawl out of the woodwork every time the topic comes up.
Makes you think it might be a tad personal for a lot of people.

>>377794850
>>377794651
>hack a comm link
>woah, i can mind control a random enemy?!?
>said enemy is on the other side of the map
>aggro all the enemies
>die
>undermanned, no supplies
>game over

i still couldnt save scum because i hate it but i can undestand why someone else might

>>377789558
>tfw I was planning to ironman xcom 2 because I don't have that much discipline

welp