What do you guys think of this current trend of "Walking"

>>377736585
meme games

Horror games with combat are stupid.

>>377736979
How so?

>>377737672
horror stems from feeling powerless
combat may take away that feel

>>377737834
Yes, but getting caught by the oogie boogie scary monster jump scare straight to a Game Over screen also takes away from that feel.

>>377737834
No it doesn't, it emphasizes the feeling of powerlessness. The problem isn't combat existing period, it's horror games making their combat about killing the enemies instead of it being a tool to avoid them. Combat should feel desperate and impossible but it should exist if you want to make it a game.

>>377736979
Horror games with combat limitations are the best.
RE1 vs RE4 in terms of shooting: 1 is far scarier. Headshots with shotguns where you have to wait until that zombie is so close first really got the blood pumping.

>mom said it's my turn to play

desu I am thinking I've played too many horror games, either that or the next one that comes out I need to make more of a big deal about it (lights out, headphones, ect)

>>377738059
I feel that horror games with combat besides Silent Hill have more jumpscares because the feeling of horror isn't as strong due to having guns and usually a decent fighting chance
>>377738103
> The problem isn't combat existing period
I didn't imply that, just said that it may take away from the feeling of horror because most horror games can't balance the two well.
Which is what this anon probably meant >>377736979
> Combat should feel desperate and impossible but it should exist if you want to make it a game
I get what you mean but would it have any purpose if it's next to useless?
Combat should be used as a last resort in horror games, imo, if at all
Too few horror games utilize traps which, I think, are effective way to combat the monsters without taking away from horror too much

>>377738103
soo having no weapons is better? i fundamentally disagree. alien isolation was a good attempt but still failed. these walking simulators are BS and you know it. it removes all immersion and keeps you on rails as a bitchboy playing a linear game.

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>>377739126
You haven't played very many horror games then
Jump scares aren't inherently bad its the miss-use of them that is
Silent Hill has jumpscares

A good horror game should give the player a choice between fight or flight. What OP calls "walking horror" games are all flight, since you literally cannot fight your enemies. Games like Doom, RE4, and Dead Space would be considered all fight, since you literally cannot run from your enemies (in most cases).

I want a horror game with a sophisticated combat system that's almost completely ineffective against your enemies. I find myself scared most in games where I'm supposed to be able to defend myself, but because of the difficulty of the encounter I choose to flee instead. Like running into Bloodsuckers in STALKER or Deathclaws in Fallout. My first instinct isn't to fight those things, but to run the fuck away.

Jumpscares should exclusively be a method for punishing mistakes

>>377736979
No. The players should have a choice to fight back, but it should, in exchange for the sense of safety, be well restrained and often make situations worse, leading the players to feel they're in too deep for making the decision to fight back.
Any horror game that removes your choice to fight immediately gives some players a mental exclusion from the acts in the game.

>>377739423
I've played more than my share not many japanese horror games besides SH and RE though and yes jumpscares have their place if used sparingly
More often than not I can tell when a jumpscare is about to happen since it usually follows the same routine

>>377739582
>Like running into Bloodsuckers in STALKER or Deathclaws in Fallout. My first instinct isn't to fight those things, but to run the fuck away.

I was with you up until you outed yourself as a casual.

>>377739610
Like FNAF?

>>377739854
funny thing is the original fnaf was unironically among the best horror game liked by /v/ before the reddit train scooped it up and scott become a sellout

>>377740010
>sellout
while I agree that the games got exponentially worse as time went on I have no qualms with people making bank off idiots.

Scott wasn't born to pleasure YOU, after all.

Op here, does anyone have any suggestions of games that manage combat and horror well? Me personally I feel that Alien Isolation nailed it.

horror games need to do more with audio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TaMqR8oLEU

>>377740010
I know I was there, I actually really enjoyed the idea of being stationary and jumpscares being used as a fail state in a horror game

>>377736585
I just want more games like top banana and shit

>>377736585
Resident evil 3 is the way horror should be done, yes you can try to fight but it should be incredibly difficult and skill based. You shouldn't just be able to beat things down or stun lock them like in some games. You should never be 100% truly safe, thats the thing I liked about re3, you actually had to time your presses to dodge otherwise you just got hit by Nemesis/zombies.

>>377736585
They can do immersion really well potentially so i think it's fine.

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>>377740217
The first few minutes of Dead Space

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>>377740217
Siren 1/2

>>377740229
do u have another link cos that dont work

>>377740217
see >>377740395

>>377736585
Amnesia was actually very good.

>>377740448
Isn't that the shit that turns from a suspenseful horror game to a full blown american rock anime at the end?

>>377740357
>google top banana
what the shit am I looking at

>>377736585
I think they're okay. But I would like to see some more classic survival horror games where there's actual combat. There's been a severe lack of those in recent years.

>>377736979
Cowardly betas like you who are too chicken shit to face their fears head on disgust me

Big scary monsters are meant to be cleverly outwitted and destroyed, not ran from like a pansy

I prefer combat in horror but sometimes no combat works perfectly like in Welcome to the Game which scares the shit out of me

>>377736979
This. If you can fight back it's not horror, it's action or adventure. The point of horror is the lack of control

>>377739126
>Combat should feel desperate and impossible
I don't know, sometimes it's frustrating. Just like in SH downpour they purposely made shitty clunky combat system to make you "hopeless", that to me just enhanced the frustration.

>>377739582

You can literally run past most enemies in resident evil 4 and dead space

>>377737834
That's why despite being a puss that cannot even look at a horror game, I am able to enjoy Prey because I have a gun.

>>377739582
There are plenty of situations where you literally have to run from the enemies in Dead Space. Some rooms require you to clear them, but not all

Besides the Resident Evil franchise I haven't really plyed to much horror games since well.......they don't scare me.

I recently said fuck it and downloaded Outlast 2, its so refreshing. I love it at least while the novelty works.

Resident Evil 7 was a good mixture.
You had railroaded/scripted walking sim but not too much of while also having classic survival horror

>>377741091
The only situation you have to run from enemeis in dead space is the regenerator... you don't have to run from anything else. Even so you can kill the regenerator easily to slow it down whilst you run.

>>377736585
I don't play shitty games.

>>377737834
Play Cry of Fear and tell me it's not scary faggot.

>>377740217
Dead Space, as long as you don't go easy mode you will dread most combat

>>377739854
FnaF 1 and 4 are unironically good, all meme insanity aside. It's definitely a love or hate it kinda game, but it exploits tension and punishes refusing active participation excellently. 4 especially, since you have to rely on subtle audio cues, making you extremely vulnerable to a good jump scare.

There isn't anything wrong with jump scares if used properly and these two games do it right I think.

Jumpscares are possibly the cheapest mechanic in the entire history of video games and movies combined.
Like seriously who thought peek-a-boo was a reasonable thing to include in a medium consumed by adults?
The best horror games don't have jumpscares.

>>377741404
LOL, good joke. Plasma cutter literally the first weapon is op as fuck, all you have to do is upgrade it to max and sell all your ammo for other weapons.

>>377740217
Alien Isolation stops being scary about halfway in when you get the flamethrower

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I like goofy/screamy indie horror, recommend me some, anons

>>377741626
>tfw you light an android on fire

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>>377741359
Cry Of Fear and Afraid Of Monster really made me paranoid as fuck an I played it after experiencing plenty of horror games. I don't understand why people here hate it so much.

>>377741553
k

>>377741739
because /v/, like most low T people, hates jumpscares because it screws up their frail hearts and nerves

>>377740884
Almost every horror movie with a monster has the protag defending themselves and killing the monster?

Why? Because cowards aren't likable protagonists and a lot of people's reactions to fear isn't always "eek I have to get out of here" but "fuck I need to kill that thing before it harms me"

Combat is great in horror games; Dead Space, RE, FEAR, Condemned, Doom 3. But it has to be balanced with the atmosphere and pacing or else the game becomes more about combat. It's perfectly fine to have weak weapons, strong enemies, limited resources to increase the tension, but running and hiding gets really boring after a while.

There's a reason why Silent Hill is one of the greatest horror games of all time. It's because it made the perfect combination of running, and fighting. You can run from most fights in Silent Hill, but you can also turn and fight, but in doing so you lose precious ammunition.

The problem with just fighting or just running games is that they don't induce panic. If you can always run, well, as long as you run you will be fine. If you can fight, well, as long as you fight you will be fine.

You'll notice that some heart stopping moments in video games are when you are confronted by an enemy that you can kill, but you may not have the power to do so. Fallout, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Silent Hill, RPGs, there's nothing like running into a being that you think you can kill, and then your mind turns to mushy panic as it now wonders whether it can actually win, and making decisions. Amnesia the Dark Descent, while being solely a run and hide game, capitalized this. It made it to where you may have to garner whether going for that lever is a good idea since the monster could round the corner. It creates tensions, and causes the player's otherwise strong mental calm to dissolve as they try to focus on the objective while. This leaves them open to panic, and terror.

But games like Silent Hill perfect the best of both worlds. You can't always run, you can't always fight. What happens if an enemy somehow traps you and you wasted all your precious ammo before? What happens if you are fighting an enemy and you miss, leaving you open and resorting to running?

This plays on the fight or flight instinct, a very real and instinctual part in humans. This is how you make humans fall into terror. Case in point, put objective, and force the player to use his mind for more than just "CLICK ON LE ENEMY XD" and "Time to run! :D". This causes them to loosen their resolve, and now as they panic from their own bad decisions, they now feel utterly hopeless, and weak.

>>377741581
Again, stop playing easy mode

>>377741626
The flamethrower barely has any ammo, if anything it ratchets up the tension because you need to be wary of using too much. Surely you weren't playing on anything but the hardest difficulty, right? Fucking pussy.

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>>377739682
>The players should have a choice to fight back, but it should, in exchange for the sense of safety, be well restrained and often make situations worse, leading the players to feel they're in too deep for making the decision to fight back.

This is the hard part. Most "horror games" turn into monster shooting hero simulations when guns get involved. This removes the horror.

Poor controls do not increase horror. Looking at you Resident Evil and Silent Hill (older games). Restricted resources just up frustration, not horror, and turn things into an overglorified stealth game. Looking at you Dead Space. If I wanted Stealth I'd pop in Thief (Any!) or Styx: Master of Shadows.

The only games I have seen get it right are in the System Shock series. The monnsters are actively HUNTING you in this game. You can kill them, but this punishes you with more and harder monsters so you must choose wisely.

This also makes the game hard as nails. Going all Master Chief will get you murdered unless you're on the easiest mode. System Shock isn't very accessible because of this.

So game designers are stuck: accessibility and sales or actually scary?

Yeah...

>>377741553
This.
If you're distracted or relaxed, ANYTHING can scare you. Especially with exaggerated sound/music. It feels so cheap all the time.

The only worthwile "jump" scares are organic. Like flicking on a flashlight and revealing something that is scary in itself. No loud noise, just the player discovering something that makes him jump and NOPE the fuck out.

>>377741879
Jump scares in Cry Of Fear are not excessive imo and I would say that they are well placed, most of the game is actually just creepy stuff.

>>377742004
sounds like you oughta get into game dev stuff, anon

>>377742032
I platinumed it on ps3, you fucking cuck lmfao

>>377742137
Just running from things isn't very fun game design either. It's boring and uncreative

>>377742537
>the size of that gun
yeah, not scared of shit in deadspace lmfao

>>377742137
I'm currently playing System Shock 2. It's pretty good but the "techno music" during monster attacks is really uncalled for I think.

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>>377736979
Horror games without combat are stupid
Half the fun comes from beating the eldritch abomination with melee weapons, the other half is from the atmosphere

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Theres nothing wrong with jump-scares

>>377742539
Lol you sure showed him xD

>>377736585
Some recent horror games that I liked are
>Fear + expansions, 2 is alright but 3 isn't even a horror game anymore
>Dead Space 1 (2 and 3 have strayed too far from the dead space formula)
>Alien Isolation
>condemned (2 wasnt as good)
>Outlast despite it being a run from the scary man game (2 sucked, I refunded it after an hour)
>amnesia and soma were alright but have no replayability at all

>>377742679
Man I really hope that movie is good and not just all special effects with no substance

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After tons of sneak and run horror games RE7 was a real breath of fresh air.
I know theirs like one section where you need to sneak but the rest of the game was pure classic RE that I loved.
I hope we get more horror games like RE7 in the future.

>>377736585
That nigga looks very happy

>>377742779
Have you tried Penumbra yet?

>>377736979
Horror with combat is stupid, mostly because no horror game has gotten it right yet. A lot of the time the combat is either too strong so you're just mowing down zombies or too weak and you honestly shouldn't bother with it at all because it's fucking useless and frustrating as hell. God knows there are lots of horror games like Rule of Rose that would be WAY better without combat

>>377736979
>why can't I kill all these spooky dogs with these hammers I find everywhere?

>>377742846
I loved re 7 but Jesus was the story terrible. The old school gameplay made up for it though

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>Nobody wants to make action horror games anymore because indie developers are too lazy.

Combat is scary, you just have to make it challenging and intense. Like Bloodborne.

>that horror part in a non horror game

Can some clever analyst explain why the well/graveyard in OoT or the woods in San Andreas or lavender town in red/blue were so damn scary?

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>>377742987
Well yeah its RE the story is always terrible.

>>377743083
>Can some clever analyst explain why the well/graveyard in OoT or the woods in San Andreas or lavender town in red/blue were so damn scary?
Because everything else surrounding its wasn't

>>377742462
Time to capitalize on his ideas.

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>>377742571

That's why I suggested System Shock getting it right. You can fight and in some situations should, but mostly it comes down to carefully watching your environment and knowing WHEN to fight and when NOT to. The pins and needles of not knowing if you're safe enough to hack that door or trying to decide if killing that beast so you can get past it is worth it is where it gets scary. Also Shodan is a mindfuck that makes GLADOS look almost kind. The mindfuck helps.

It's not pure fleeing like the walking simulators. And then there was Silent Hill Downpour: fleeing at it's worst.

It's not pure stealth like, well, stealth games. You can't and shouldn't fight in those when you're doing it right. There's a reason Thief has "Master mode" where combat = death.

It's a fine balance that is meant to keep you on edge. A balance that also is harder overall for players and designers.

>>377742902
Overture is really good, but putting only the evil wolves as enemies felt really lazy.
Black Plague is excellent until you get the "parasite" and you just wish he could shut the fuck up.

>>377743083
presumably because you didn't go into it thinking "this is spooky"

when someone picked up a copy of silent hill on the ps1 they didn't expect a kart racing game

>>377743083
Music and atmosphere can go a long way.

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>>377742812
It's literally on PB, anon.

>>377742004
>But games like Silent Hill perfect the best of both worlds. You can't always run, you can't always fight
You pretty much can always fight in SH. Besides some minor parts outside on the fog/otherworld where those flying fucks never seem to stop coming.or that part where it's dark and scary as fuck and you feel just like running to the mall or whatever

>>377742902
I actually just got that on steam last week but haven't gotten a chance to play it yet

>>377741359
Finished it.
It was scary at first but not later in the game

>>377743163
i'm already making an action/violence game, anon, no desire to try my hand at pleasuring horror autists. Going for a more mainstream audience because I want fucking money

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>>377742137
>You can kill them, but this punishes you with more and harder monsters so you must choose wisely.
That's not really true. Monster spawns are static per level.
Kill 20 pipe hybrids on the med deck, and the only thing that's gonna spawn is more pipe hybrids. You're not gonna get Xerxes shoving Cyborg Assassins in your face for going into combat.
And lets not pretend that the wrench isn't a 100% viable weapon that will two-shot everything up until your do start encountering robots and annelids. Allowing you to save money from not buying ammo and not having to worry about weapon condition.

>>377743019
If by challenging and intense you mean "can memorize patterns like in the old NES days OMG so creative and inspired!", then yes.

>>377742620
It was the 90's. Techno music was hard to avoid as it was super trendy.

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>>377736585
I don't like it but I don't know a good way to make a good horror game without it or jump scares.

>>377742679
>>377743329
what's this? It looks fun

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>>377743329
Oh dang didn't it had come out already, I guess its time to go download it

>>377742619
>mfw what he's holding is actually the most useless gun in the game.

In 2 it was OP, but in 1, the Pulse Rifle was garbage.

>>377736585

Games like Outlast nail it well, I think it's all about what you fear will appear as opposed to what actually does.

The fear of something jumping at you is bigger than the actual encounter, once you die twice the fear factor disappears completely. Amnesia was best at it

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>tfw can't play horror because I'm a pussy

>>377743412
That is true, there is room for improvement.

Would it be a good thing if Cyborgs started coming in after you killed a bunch of pipe hybrids? I'm not 100% sure on that...

Two hits still means a second one can get behind you while you handle the first one. That said, using the wrench is how you can save up to survive later levels.

>>377742004
>It's because it made the perfect combination of running, and fighting.
Yeah, certainly it wasn't unique and interesting setting, incredible atmosphere, good story, scenery, genius sound and music design. Who cares about that shit?
SH is such a legend because you can whack monsters with a pipe. I agree.

>>377743678
> wrench penis.

Wait... what?

>>377736585
If the game and story are designed around it, it's fine. People are probably just sick of it because Frictional Games saw so much success and the game industry is full of copy cats

Horror games that show you clearly where the monster is are shit
You should know the threat exists but not what it is, the simple unknown is scary enough
The second horror games reveal the monster is when it loses the fear factor for me

>>377743743
Amnesia was good. Even some custom maps are really well made.

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>>377743486
filthy nigger

>>377743939
Someone post the American boxart of Amensia Dark Descent.

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Anyone tried this? I heard that it's good.

>>377743802
>Two hits still means a second one can get behind you while you handle the first one.
Hybrids aren't that fast or intelligent. They attack from the same angles. And if they are shotgun wielding hybrids, they'll back away from you when you close in on them, which freely allows you to bash their heads in, because they cannot while moving.

>>377742462
Funny you say that. I'm going to be going to college for Computer Science (Which is basically your ticket to Video Game development)

I also just have a love for all things horror.

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They just exist. There are good ones and bad ones. You can have different types of videogames. Both can exist and also have their own strengths.
But I do believe a game that combines many different play styles will most likely be better for horror games who try to undermine expectations and perceptions.

>>377744128
Godspeed, my dude

>>377743930
I was only speaking on a gameplay level. I'm not saying that all you need is gameplay for a good horror game, I'm just saying how you do the gameplay right.

>>377742620
It's actually Drum n'base and I think that it blends very well with the cyberpunk/horror atmosphere.

>>377742679

Sauce?

>>377744420
bass*

>>377744420
desu I liked the ebm/industrial tunes from the first game more

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up80FfzySFA

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>>377744608
The Void

>>377744883

Thank you

>>377744737
Hope they'll decently remix all this stuff in the remake. Possibly without Dubstep crap.

>>377744737
to be honest SS1 was scarier. The enemies will fuck you up and hearing spooky robot noises is a lot more unnerving than >PLEASE KILL MEEEEEEEEEE

>>377745007
I'm sure they'll ruin it somehow

>>377743981
whats wrong anon?

>>377742779
>FEAR
>Horror
There's nothing as good at killing tension as a slow-mo button. Well, except making you feel like an unstoppable force of destruction, and you know...

FEAR barely even pretended to be horror.

>>377743329
>The woman with the baby behind him

Spooky

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For all the horror games I've played, THIS fucker had me on edge more than any other

>>377745247
>FEAR barely even pretended to be horror.

I get you anon but thats a little hyperbolic, FEAR definitely made lots of attempts at being horror

>tfw never actually been scared by a game

i havent played that many horror games though. whats a good one i can play right now on PC thats actually scary?

>>377745247
>FEAR barely even pretended to be horror.
felt like it was pretending to me, every time you left the designated combat rooms

>>377743486
Oh fuck cunt. Can't believe the first time I fell for a jumpscare in so long would be on fucking /v/.

>>377743354
>The Asylum isn't scary
Even in the city with a comical arsenal of weapons in my backpack, those giant fucks kept me on edge.

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>>377745328
>your waifu becomes eldritch abomination
What do

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>>377745394
If you're not a pussy, you just can't get scared. I play horror games for the mystery elements.
I enjoy puzzle solving too and shit like that.

>>377745617
If you crouch and keep hitting them with the baton they can't hurt you.

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this is the best horror game

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>>377745369

horror games need combat, but they should make it interesting
like using permanent damage to body which cannot be removed by returning to a checkpoint, add in scifi setting so you can replace your limbs, hearing or eyes, but the parts are cheap at first and dont function correctly half the time until you can upgrade them properly

>>377745725
>Eldritch Waifu
What movie is this???

>>377741359
Cry of Fear is a worse Afraid of Monsters.

>>377746017

>>377744883

>>377745772
If you blow a Regenerador's legs and stab them they cannot hurt you. Would you still say Regenerador's aren't fucking scary?

>>377742619
You clearly haven't played DS if you think the pulse rifle is good.
You can't kill the majority of the enemies unless you lop off all the limbs and the Pulse Rifle is absolutely horrible at doing that.

>>377742812

I have bad news for you, then.

The movie is probably the best lovecraft movie we got, but it's not good, just very visually impressive.

>>377746127
Thanks anon

Most of them are right out of /x/.

Stupid fake shit that scares no one.

>>377742812
It's shit, sorry.

>>377739042
>He doesn't already play horror with lights out

Anon why would you destroy the atmosphere?

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It's been probably said in this thread already but combat changes everything. If your only option is to run away and hide the game is lacking in a few layers of scary because there is no fight or flight decision you have to make on the fly. If your resources are scarce you have to think whether you'll need those precious bullets later.

SOMA has a very tight story with well executed psychological horror in its highlights yet the game would be much better if it had combat and is quite lacking in some areas because you always flight. Those dark deep underwater industrial areas are just begging to give player just a couple bullets and a medkit or two and let him shit himself.

>>377736979
Horror games without combat are stupid.

>>377736979
A horror game with bad combat is more engaging than a horror game with nothing.
>walk around spooooooooky hallways
>hide in a closet or something when enemy shows up
>whether or not the enemy looks in your closet is completely random
>solve a basic get key open door "puzzle"
>repeat for 8 hours

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Only good horror walking simulator desu

>>377740636
There's an ending cutscene that's like that, but the rest of the game stays true to being a survival horror. You unlock some mini game mode where you can play the rock anime cutscene part after beating the game I think.

My favorite horror game is Fatal Frame 5. Censorship or not, it got the atmosphere just right. I'm fucking terrified whenever I go anywhere, but it doesn't rely on cheap jumpscares. The camera gives you a decent defense against the ghosts too.

>>377746438
Good concepts and presentation, lame gameplay.
Would've been better off as a novel.

>>377746438
But it's only because of story. If it had combat it would be an amazing game and easily one of my all time favorites. In it's only flight option state it's just "ah that game with a good story" and I still prefer Dead Space over it for the gameplay atmosphere even though SOMA has amazing world that feels real. It's really a shame.

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>>377745369
And then they made him the final boss

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Wasn't somebody actually working on System Shock 3?

>>377736585
They're absolutely shit. Horror is truly scary when you have means to defend yourself, but still know it might not be enough, like CLASSIC resident evil's extremely limited inventory space and ammo scarcity. yeah, you might have two mags for that beretta, but you probably don't want to dump one of those mags on just a couple of zombies.

>>377746705
Yes
Systems Shock 3 and the remake of the first game are being made

>>377746705
Yep. Night Dive bought the rights, remastered System Shock and is working on more System Shock games.

>>377743486
epin

>>377736979
The height of the genre exists somewhere in the Silent Hill/Fatal Frame realm of being able to fight back against the horrors but you're pretty shitty at it and you need to take limited resources into account. Hide-and-seek simulators immediately stop being scary the moment you get killed once and the illusion breaks.

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The dread is the best part in a horror game for me. If you can keep increasing the gut wrenching fright of wandering around in a horror game you've done it right. You don't even need jump scares, especially since those give you immediate relief after knowing the thing you were dreading already happened. Just little things that keep increasing in intensity are great.

I've probably brought it up in these threads before but this mod called Phobia did it well. You first investigate this basement in an abandoned house with a very tense soundtrack that only plays down there, and there's scratching noises near a big locked door in the basement. When you get sleep on the first day you're awoken to a knocking on the bedroom door, and investigating outside the room you find nothing except collapsed ceiling tiles all over the house, and you can hear those scratching noises fucking everywhere. It stops when you get downstairs to check on the locked door. Shit like this keeps happening, until one night you approach the locked door after being woken up again, and it bursts open. You pass out, next morning you wake up and there's now a monster wandering the house at all times for the rest of the game. No jumpscares at all and it was goddamn terrifying.

>>377747559
It's as if people just forget that jumpscares ruin any suspense and dread games can give. Like Hitchcock said, "There is no fear in the bang, only the anticipation of it".

>>377743741
if you can aim then the assault rifle is awesome

you get tons of ammo and can increase its damage output pretty high. you dont even need to shoot full auto. a few well placed shots and a necromorph is down. not to mention the secondary fire is great for crowd control

>>377747947
I mean I kind of get why people like jump scares. Being startled produces that immediate relief feeling and you can giggle about it with your friends. They're just not, well, terrifying. Most people don't like actually being scared, so actually frightening games aren't very popular.

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>>377747965
It was OK, but as vanilla as it sounds, Plasma cutter Fully upgraded was literally unbeatable, even on impossible.

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>>377746405
He's >>377736979 fucking though though faggot. Horror turns to absolute dogshit once you are given combat.

Want to know a game where this very thing happens where you have absolutely no combat and then once you're given guns the game turns 180 degrees.

Call of Cthulhu Dark Corners of the Earth.

The first few moments of the game was absolutely fucking frightening. You're stranded in a town with it's citizens who are out to get you, there is even a point where you're supposed to flee from an inn and lock doors because you have absolutely no way of defending yourself, causing even more of a tension to the point of shitting yourself. Once you're given a pistol and a Thompson gun, you basically zoom through the entire game rushing areas, being literally afraid of nothing, and killing Fish people/cultists on sight. The game lost it's horror at that very moment, the only thing left was just it's ambience where you see a dark room with candles.

The only way developers can even attempt at maintaining the horror of their game once they've given the player the ability to fight back is through cheap retarded jump scares, or spoopy horror elements like seeing a dismembered bodypart or blood on the wall which has become so cliche NOBODY even finds any of those elements scary anymore. Literally everything said above are things that we regard as shit in modern horror games.

>>377748512
>Here's this one game where it doesn't work therefor it doesn't work in any other game ever

>>377748512
How is the hotel in Vampire: Masquerade scary then, if the player character is an intensely capable vampire who has killed with their bare hands?

hiding is awful and not fun period

>>377736585
Good, being defenseless is scarier and most horror games with combat intentionally make the combat super slow and shitty to give the player artificial fear. No fucking thanks.

Honestly, the times I've most enjoyed horror elements in a game is when it's not the main focus. From recent memory, I really enjoyed the Japanese horror-themed dungeon in Persona Q, a turn-based dungeon crawler. The overall aesthetic and ambiance of the dungeon is what made me love it, but its incorporation of Japanese horror cliches in the dungeon's puzzles really cemented it as my favorite part of the game. It had some jumpscares, but they weren't exactly SPOOKY FACE TAKES UP THE WHOLE SCREEN but more like the lights go out in a room and you have to navigate your way around a space inhabited by unseen creatures that if encountered will be really difficult to fight.

Having said that, I'll admit I haven't played too many horror games myself because I'm a pussy, but I also don't think that the majority of them aren't really that fun because I want to play a game, not a running away simulator.

>>377748810
The ghost isn't a physical thing you can fight and all you can do is avoid its attacks. Also the atmosphere of the hotel.

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>>377748896
I like the stealth part of stealth games.

>>377748810
Because cheap spoop scares like I mentioned up above, you had no way of defeating or defending yourself from something that could clearly defeat, And really?? The Hotel was fucking scary??

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>>377736979
Get out newfag

>>377736585
Bad because unless it's a poorly designed piece of shit I know there's always a place to hide removing any tension. At least with the ones you can fight back you occasionally get moments like your first Pyramid Head encounter in Silent Hill 2 where you feel absolutely powerless even if you have a handgun.

>>377736585
What game?

>>377748512
for me, when a horror game doesn't let you defend yourself, it's not scary because i know that's the point of the game now. it's much worse when you can defend yourself, but aren't sure if what you have will be enough.

>>377749326
Stalker isn't really a horror game it just has some minor horror elements in it once in awhile.

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>>377736979
>combat and hide'n'seek are the only gameplay elements a horror game can have

>>377749676
Get out newfag

>>377749326
what he said
>>377749676
the first time you run into the controller in agroprom is fucked though, or the bloodsucker if he sneaks up behind you. CNPP at the end is also great with the wish granter voices and the creepy noises and creaking metal of a dilapidated facility full of insane cultists

>>377746197
>The movie is probably the best lovecraft movie we got
What is "In the mouth of Madness"

I also quite liked Dagon, though its visual effects have aged pretty badly

>>377749751
I fucking own a physical copy of Shadow of Chernobyl and played it without any patches.

>>377736585
good

>>377748512
Or, the developers are retarded and don't know how to give you a way to fight back and still keep the game scary.

Silent Hill games had very few jump scares and were still scary as all hell. You should be able to defend yourself, but it has to be so ineffective that you dread the idea of having to.

I'm alright with them depending on the game.
I prefer the feeling of being defenseless in a horror game.

The ones I can't stand are horror games with a huge focus on combat where you just feel like some generic badass action hero killing everything that comes your way.

>>377749793
Yeah I won't deny Stalker has its creepy moments but horror isn't the main focus of the game it's just another part of the zone which makes it all the more unique when those moments do pop up.

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>>377736585
still trying to figure out what the fuck genre the game is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0bakSQR6IU
scorn when?

>>377743619
The Void I believe

>>377736585
>pale face with abnormally large eyes and mouth with blood and discoloration

I really hate these images they're so fucking cheesy it's like something a seventh grader would come up with after reading some shitty article on basic human fears.

>>377736585
Boring games are not scary.
It's awful for horror.

>>377742812
That's exactly what it is, unfortunately.
Still worth a watch.

>>377748512
>you have absolutely no way of defending yourself, causing even more of a tension to the point of shitting yourself
Of what, a jumpscare? Or that you have to run away when a monster finds you? That's not scary. A game cannot build up a proper horror atmosphere without combat because your brain doesn't face the fight or flight decision, which is more complex and deep than just flight alone.

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If being "defenseless" in horror makes it better, how come most games that go for that approach end up being forgotten so quickly, especially ones in a first person perspective? Outlast 2 did that shit a while ago and discussion died out on it fast.

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>>377750936
amnesia was, and still is, a meme game. outlast 2 was just shit.

If the "atmospheric" elements also JUST HAPPEN to be extremely simple to develop and implement you can bet it's just a by the numbers stinker

What are some horror games where you can fuck the ghost girl?

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If weapons or combat is going to be in the game, why not have it something more than the typical stun? I have yet to see a game where hitting/shooting whatever monster stuns or stops it for a moment only for it to go absolutely fucking berserk or change itself to run you down and kill you even faster. It can be useful for getting away if it's right on your ass or to duck into a corner/vent/whatever hidey-hole you may have but the trade off is if you aren't able to get away then it'll just fucking shred you like a tree being turned into mulch.

>>377750936
Most of you chicken shit faggots are too scared to play horror games without combat and thus there are not enough people to discuss the games.

Just because something is better doesn't mean it will be more popular.

>>377749850
get out newfag

>>377751432
>doesn't mean it will be more popular
Weren't games like that, such as Outlast 2, talked about a lot before release? I remember a good bit of discussion going on then it got dropped shortly after release.

>>377751513
Make me.

>>377750936
"Defenseless" horror games are fantastic if you're a youtuber with a facecam

>>377743486
I've really conquered fear

>>377751095
But what about the countless other games like that? There are only a few that are able to be remembered for more than a month or week tops and thats it.

>>377751432
Outlast and FNAF are popular, that doesnt mean that they're better than true survival horror games because at least those had replay value.

>>377751585
t. jaded millennial

>>377752193
Most games like those are like a haunted house or a shitty popcorn flick you see in theaters. They're good for only one playthrough and thats it.

>>377752193
He's right though, those games are perfect for youtubers and fags like that
Amnesia killed horror games

>>377736979
What if a game were to have combat elements, but they're either extremely useless or do absolutely nothing, but never straight out tell the player that?
Finding a gun after a segment and then finding out it doesn't work at all on the enemy sounds pretty neat.

I feel like they're slightly preferable to "army man shoot monster" horror games that ruined the genre, but I'd rather an actual good horror game instead of either.

>>377752461
That just sets the precedent that either
A. The game is broken or
B. The game is going to stupidly lie to you just to dick you around

>>377752461
Make the gun still useful for other purposes and it's not a terrible idea

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What about a new the Thing game?

>>377752821
Basically what the revolver from Alien Isolation did?
>run into group of hostile humans
>fire a round into the air and promptly hide in the nearest closet
>listen to everybody in a mile radius be slaughtered

>>377736979
You're right silent hill is trash haha.

In the first Penumbra game you're able to wield a pickaxe and kill enemies. After the mechanic is introduced I found myself actively seeking OUT monsters because it was much easier to beat the living shit out of them than playing hide-and-seek. This is bad design and makes the game not scary. What IS scary is frantically blasting your flamethrower at the Xenomorph after it spots you to buy yourself a couple lifesaving seconds where you normally would have died in a walking simulator.

Self-defense in horror should reward tactics and conservation and not reward actively picking fights with the enemy.

>>377750180
Okay, why can I not find any torrents or playthroughs of this game? Is this like the opening to a horror movie where the hero hears about a cursed game and his life gets turned unside out like a puppy in a vacuum?

>>377754319
Searching up "marrow game" literally gives you the steam store page and some shitty lets plays in videos. It probably just passed under everybody's radar. It did mine

>>377754663
Oh. So... no gateway into cosmic horror via cursed vidyagaem? Because, y'know... I was kinda hoping.

>>377753963
Your Penumbra experience is the exact same as mine. Once I figured out the awkward combat I beat the shit out of everything in the area without taking damage, and explored at my own pace. Definitely could've used some tuning.

>>377754804
Sad Satan

>>377753963
>Self-defense in horror should reward tactics and conservation and not reward actively picking fights with the enemy.
this is why i think melee weapons need to be short ranged and shitty like a knife, and ranged weapons need to be very limited in ammo. if you find something great like an AK47 for example, finding ammo should be rare, so you use it in an emergency where something has to die very quickly, rather than a tool to mow down everything immediately on sight

>>377754952
Babby's First Deepweb Game? Fuck off.

>>377754804
Make your own horror game with such high expectations that you drive yourself crazy and commit suicide and leave instructions in your will for your family to distribute your game

Be the change you want to see.

the original slenderman is the best horror game ever made, hands down. that shit was fucking terrifying

>>377755920
xd

>>377756060
why can't you just tell him to fuck off and die? ironic shitposting is cancer in itself

>>377746129
How do you fit a whole leg in your mouth?

The Evil Within was a good horror. Fight me.

>>377736585
The lack of variety isn't great, but the real problem with them is that they take very little effort to make compared to most other games and so every stupid asshole with a generic half-baked idea for a horror story can just shit one out.

>>377756060
>>377756163
i was being serious about slenderman you fags, it's a good fucking horror game. the new one isn't as good tho

>>377736979
and every "horror" game without combat devolve into the benny hill op once the initial "scare factor" goes away which takes 30 minutes at most

>>377756163
whoa calm down spergy, no need to have an autism fit over two letters

>>377756219
>daylight levels

>>377756367
Resident Evil 4 1st village stage was alright

>>377756254
It's not the best at anything by a long shot. Even SCP Containment Breach came out a few months before it

>>377740217
Eternal Darkness Sanity's Last Requiem

>>377736585
Resident Evil was so fucking refreshing to play

>>377740217
ABUSE

>>377756504
really?? you didn't think it was good? i thought it was a really novel concept with great execution. the game wasn't a looker but it was shocking as hell with how fluid slender's movements were

Does Clive Barker's Undying still hold up?

>>377736979
t. hasn't played condemned

>Outlast 2
>LEL ITS DARK AS FUCK JUST RUN FROM STUFF

I'm ready for this meme to be over. I need more games like Resident Evil VII in my life immediately. Any cool looking horror games on the horizon?

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PT is unironically the Best horror game ever made

>>377757096
Agony/Scorn I guess

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>>377757096
what made REVII so fun anyway? I expected it to be like Outlast, and really it kind of was, but I was seriously hooked until the end for some reason or another and I'm not sure what it was. Definitely my favorite game of the year so far though.

>>377757176
Agony looks like trash

Does Scorn have any actual gameplay trailers out yet?

>>377757329
Because of Jack and Lucas

>>377757329
The entire gameplay experience isn't hindered by the fact that it's not pitch black all the time. Also it's actually just more fun to be scared of stuff while still being able to shoot it.

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>>377757329
It had so much character to it and felt like it was made out of love for the horror medium.
Movies like Evil Dead and The Hills have eyes were big inspirations and it fits the tone of the game well.

It also works in how it's always keeping things fresh in terms of horror one minute you got Jack who's like nemesis and is super strong and hard to kill but then you go to large Marge who's got a freaky bug trope and even delves into fucked up body horror and even Lucas who you never fight head on has his unique gimmicks such as Saw lie death traps and weird death puzzles.

I loved RE7 so damn much and I think its going to be up there with the classics when people fondly remember the RE series.

>>377736585
>Is it good for horror or bad?
how can you even ask this? they're all terrible because there's no thought to them at all.
>see enemy
>hide
>enemy walks away
>do your business

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Fatal Frame 1 was the best.

Instead of transparent humans you get floating heads, upper torsos and long armed abominations. The long arms monster even kills various children

>>377742137
>SH and RE
>poor controls
>Dead Space
>stealth
this is some top tier bait you gigantic faggot, stop shitposting while praising SS2, retards will actually believe you.

>there could be a jump scare in this thread right now

>>377746705
Yes, and it's going to be terrible.

anyone who says FNAF is good should go hang themselves.

>>377758289
raggle fraggle

>>377758369
This. Bendy and the Ink Machine is better.

anyone who says FNAF is bad should go hang themselves.

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>>377751432

anyone who says FNAF is okay should go hang themselves.

>>377757329
It had actual gameplay, instead of an embarrassing excuse for a stealth system.

>>377746509
Question how is Siren 2 compare to the first one? First one was nice but some back tracking was just awful and most of the time you just have to replay something a dozen times looking around everyone for one thing. Even worst when it says "complete" when it isn't.

>>377758289
>arraki eating a toaster strudel.jpg

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>>377736585
brush that nigga's teeth baka

>>377758606
It's not as obtuse as Siren 1, to my recollection; it doesn't have anything like the frozen towel puzzle.

>>377749606
Death Forest. It's a Japanese indie game

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>>377758289
>that one time /x/ had a hidden jumpscare set in place during halloween

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>>377736585
Too close to a haunted house for me. Just walk around a wait for the jump scare. Sadly the indie scene popularized this style of game, especially stuff like Five Nights at Freddys

Fact of the matter is its not a true horror game if you dont have a gun or a weapon of some kind. it's just fake, manufactured horror. Like Alien: Isolation. There was nothing scary about the alien. It was just an enemy you couldn't fight or kill. So it was just tedious to deal with

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I'm off work sick today /v/
recommend me a spook game that's not a massive file size and I'll play it right now

fnaf is an okay horror game. it's effective if you can get into it, and that's all that matters.

people who express disdain for it is one thing, but most people just try to counteract the culture surrounding it and wish death on anyone who even so much as tolerate it; people like that are puppets of their own memeology and they need to get help

>>377759705
The Witch's House

I refer to such games as 'Closet Horror' due to how most of their gameplay revolves around hiding in a closet.

I think most of these games don't really have much merit and aren't very good overall.
Alien Isolation is the best of this genre and that's because it blends actual survival horror (ie combat, inventory management, choosing between fighting or running, the possibility of actual danger to the player andloss of progress) and simply uses closet horror on top of this to create a unique experience.

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>>377755528
this

>>377755920
>>377756254
>>377756820

>Im 16 and this is scary to me

This a site for 18 and up

>>377758606
More streamlined in a good way

>>377757086
That's a pretty shit example because fighting back is pointless in the harder difficulties unless you have a gun and are a headshot master.

You block and they still push your shit in, not to mention they're ungodly fast, i get they're drug addicts but these guys practically teleport and hit you a dozen times in the time you get a single hit in or raise your weapon to block.

Any horror game that sticks to a formula will be shit.

>>377759645
You could force the alien to run, and the rest of the enemies CAN be killed, it's not like the guns aren't used.

If you're truly clever and sadistic you can use the alien to kill any human enemies and just watch.

>>377758139
I remember renting this when I was like 10 or 11

In one of the starting areas you walk though a hallway and there are chains on the ceiling. I walked back through and they were arms, entered another room and it clicked that they were arms, so I went back in, and the chains are back.

Game spooked the hell out of me.

>>377759705
Cat lady

Its on sale

>>377758139
Fatal Frame 1 really was the scariest of all of them by a landslide, I still get pissed when 2 keeps getting put on SCARIEST GAMES lists.

2 is by far the better video game though and all around much more playable and less of an obtuse and clunky piece of shit.

>>377740958
In RE4 yes, in dead space you have to clear some rooms before you're allowed to leave, and fleeing like a faggot is missing the entire point of the game: the dismembering

>>377736979
Put me in the recap

>>377760316
MY EYESSS..

the first one nearly gave me a heart attack. i agree with you that the second isnt scary at all, especially when the ghosts are dumb as shit and keep moving foward at you in the same patterns each time

>>377760847
2 is still decently scary on is own but pales compared to the first game.

3 is much scarier than 2 honestly, they went all out with the optional scares, and the crawlspace ghost is arguably the scariest thing in the series.

stalker had combat as well as some nice horror sections. but all the mutant ai had peculiar characteristics which made combat not so straight forward. take a flesh that doesnt do anything special and you'll knife it easily but get thrown into a strange place with tight quarters and one or two blood suckers running around, or a burer sapping your stamina and hitting you with your own gun, then you have a party

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>>377739582
>Bloodsuckers are whatever
>blind dogs say hello to my automatic
>stupid munchkin man, you die now
>hears cat noises

>>377759705
Imscared
Anatomy

>>377743486
Is that fucking Nikki Minaj?

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I have a slightly crack-pot conspiracy theory that the popularization of Youtube-bait horror games led to the rise of the mentality that any fucker with access to Unity engine can make a horror game. Creativity stagnated and shlock became the popular thing to play for your audience.

>>377740717
I think you missed the point of horror.

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>>377751432
Having combat makes the game scarier because YOU have to make the choice to face the terror or run. The instant agency is removed it ceases to be an experience and fear is removed because instead of having to make a decision on the fly you INSTANTLY know that the solution is to run and hide until it goes away.

>>377744128
Just be aware that unless you're a minority or a woman you ain't getting to make and direct your perfect horror game even if it would sell millions of copies, gotta give those underprivileged pajeets, tyrones and stacies a chance before you.

>>377759705
Seconding Witch's House

Play it once normally and then go for the secret ending.

>>377762171
You need to leave your basement from time to time anon

Bad controls make better horror games.

>see scary monster
>easily turn to it, pull out gun and shoot, or if it's too strong, easily turn around and run away
>see another immediately afterwards
>do the same thing

Vs

>see scary monster
>try to pull out gun but it's hard to turn around and aim at it
>monster gets closer
>panic
>decide to run
>Struggle to turn around from tank controls and just barely avoid the monster and make it out alive
>see another one
>oh shit!

>>377759705
Spookys house of jump scares

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>>377751562
its on

>>377758408
Somebody help me!

>>377761715
Yes it is

>>377759705
I don't even know how these two fuckers could kill me, someone spoonfeed please.

>>377736585
I have no strong opinions one way or the other. Combat can be frantic, hiding can be frantic. The walking sections usually allow you to build suspense.
Recently finished Soma, that rattled me pretty good.

>>377763194
Slenderman kills you if you look at him too long, he just teleports up in your face and does... something.

the shitty gingerbread statue moves at like 50 mph if you're not looking at him, and snaps your neck. Even blinking around him is lethal.

>>377763194
I don't know how slenderman works but SCP-173 can't move if you're looking at him, when you don't look at him he gets closer/able to kill you (this includes blinking). That's why the SCP foundation (agency that finds and quarantines these things) makes it so that you need at least 3 personnel in the room with SCP-173. Two of said personnel must always be within direct line of sight looking at it, and they must alert each other when they're going to blink to alternate.

>>377741359
CoF is scary mostly because it's a jumpscare fest.

>>377763194
Slenderman doesn't really kill people, he just torments you endlessly until you end up dead, one way or another.
They had to give him a stupid kill mechanic for that garbage Slender game or else they wouldn't have had anything to work with.

>>377737834
then why is Afraid of Monsters by far the scariest game ever made, even in co-op?

>>377763659
It depends what million different lores you're following.

Pretty sure the original SomethingAwful post said he killed children and stuffed their entrails in plastic bags on trees

>>377743486
sauce?

aside from Dark Souls and Morrowind, what games have the scariest skeletons?

>>377759705
>pic
Start moving backwards towards the nearest door while keeping eye contact with 173, attempting to only keep eye contact with 173. If my vision gets static and I have put enough distance between us then look away very briefly. Once a door is put between us, shut the door turn around and sprint away. Its simple. Not necessarily easy, depending on Slendie's behavior, but simple; there's not much to it.

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>>377763987
doom 2

>>377759705
put yourself inbetween the two

>>377764127
Revenants aren't scary, they're too fucking goofy looking and they do a goddamn Crip walk.
also I'm one of those snobs who thinks Doom 2 is shit compared to Doom 1

>>377759705
just close one eye lmao

>>377759705
Cover up slendy with my hand and walk backwards.

>>377740217
FATAL FRAME

>>377764234
Think of it this way, you get teleported into each vidya world. You're as yourself, no special abilites or whatever. Now which would you rather face, the skeletons that armor and swords or the ones in futuristic armor with canons on its back and are three times your size?

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>>377759705
Not even the "blink one eye at a time" trick works here. This is real a conundrum.

>>377764141
But then what? How do you escape this situation? Being anywhere near the slenderman would put you in danger, you need to move away from him. And if you try to move away from 173 you risk moonwalking into Slendie.

>>377764563
So the real question is, who would give you the quickest, most painless death?

>>377764630
173 just snaps your neck. Who knows what Slendy does with those tendrils.

>>377759705
Could technology hold the key to this puzzle?

Assuming you have a phone with a video camera or some similar device with you, could you could you set it to begin recording from the camera placed on the same side as the screen, point that camera to 173 and only 173, and then sprint away while keeping an eye on the phone's screen?

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>>377736979
You are saying Silent Hill 2 is stupid by proxy
fuck you

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>>377736979
>have little enemies to kill along the way
>real enemy shows up and is way scarier looking, can't be killed by the means you've been killing everything else
>immediately feel fear first-hand
This is objectively good game design, and is important for establishing the predator-prey relationship of the player and the main monster(s) in a horror game.
Walking and running simulators are only scary because you fear the imminent jumpscare of getting caught. You're scared of the loud noises and flashing lights because everyone is. Video games as a medium lend themselves to more creative means of establishing the consumers relationship with the characters presented in the media.

>>377750180
A gameplay trailer for Scorn is coming out tomorrow.

>>377758139
>>377760316
>>377760994
Aww shit,I got Fatal Frame 2 because I heard it was the scariest of them even though I had fond memories of playing 3 when I was a kid
Should I skip it and go play 1 or 3?

>>377766440
>Instill fear by immersing the player in the character and their vulnerable nature vs. instilling fear with the threat of directly punishing the player via unpleasant stimuli
Never thought about it that way. Huh.

Since the thread is here, can anyone recommend any non-shitty playthroughs of Ao Oni? All the ones I've seen are sub-PDP fake scream-and-memefests.

>>377767870
Your own playthrough.

>>377767870
Add "no commentary".

>>377767870
I hate your kind.
You would use less bandwidth just downloading and playing it yourself.

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>>377762651
You just made a terrible mistake.

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>>377736585
>implying Death Forest isn't scary

>>377739289
I don't think alien isolation failed, the main story just had too many scripted elements. Almost all humans were hostile, and the alien had very identifiable patterns and routes. Fix those and it would have been better off.
Bonus: Guns were really weak, if they made them more powerful but heavily limited ammo, it would have been more tolerable. A revolver or shotgun blast to an android's dome should have incapped it, no question. Instead it takes multiple. Synthetics, Seegson in particular, were not that resilient.

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I wouldn't call it a horror game but there was definitely suspense in Little Waifu.

>>377768737
What did the ending mean again?

>>377767956
>>377768326
I have played it, I want something to watch in the background while I do other stuff.

>>377769112

She is now the little nightmare and will bring hell upon an unsuspecting world.

>>377759705
I fucking hate that Slender Man totally robbed Angus Scrimm's legacy of the Tall Man.

>>377760046
There's needs to be an updated version of this with evil Cooper.

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Personally the scariest one for me was Mask of the Lunar Eclipse.

Part 1 you had noticeably limited 'ammo', you could random encounter ghosts, which was always unpredictable and scary. The scariest feature for me was unlike other fatal frames after 1, the ghosts can also attack you as you slowly open doors and would chase you through fucking rooms. I would be jumping in my chair waiting for the door opening animation to finish knowing some shit was inching up on me... inches away.

Also Wii U hacking finally let me accomplish my goal of playing the disc version of Maiden of blackwater.

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I really need some recent horror movies to watch
No ghost shit please, I find it very boring

>>377764563
Well if SCP 173 Exists then just wait until the foundation get there

>>377769725
This movie was so fucking good, goddamn.

>>377769896

wat movie?

>>377769896
Nice try shill