"Zoning" is the biggest load of bullshit in fighting

>>377721317
git gud

>>377721317
>predict you opponant will fireball
>jump over it and punish
Wow that was difficult

I agree zoning is kind of lame but
>requires zero tactical comprehension
at higher levels everyone knows how to deal with zoning and you have to be amazing to still make it work.

>>377721317
The fireball motion is the easiest move in most fighting games, it's the carrot on the stick, or the COD noobtube of the genre, that helps get new players excited and interested.

If you can't jump a fireball, just quit playing fighting games

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>doesn't know shit about fighting games
>comes on /v/ to tell us how fighting games should be

why do people do this?

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>"Camping" is the biggest load of bullshit in infantry battles. It's an antiquated infantry design trope and it needs to be stoppped in the interest of peace for everyone. If you spend the whole fight camping your opponent then it's stale, frustrating, and requires zero tactical comprehension.

>>377721317

Using the brakes is the biggest load of bullshit in racing games. It's an antiquated game design trope and it needs to be removed in the interest of fun for everyone.

I wish Blizzard would make a containment game for these retards.

>>377721317
play a platform fighter instead if this bothers you
I'm not joking it actually fixes the problem.

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>>377722216
>modern shooters
>camping is a problem

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>>377722682
That is exactly what I want actually.

>>377721317
If you get rid of zoning you get a boring SFV-esque scenario where every character is rushdown and there is no room for other/hybrid playstyles.

>>377722682
Smash would contain them, but you fags keep insisting that Smash is casual trash so they try to play your "hardcore" games and get mad.
Only yourself to blame.

>>377721317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw
i miss this game

>>377723698
What the fuck did Riot even buy them for?

>>377723183
Of course you do, Blizzard makes babies first X. They make shallow games for people who don't actually like the genre. Just wait a few years, fighting games will regress to the point where you can enjoy them, then they will die.

Git gud

>>377723785
idk, im pretty sure the game is dead

>>377723785
to get rid of any competition

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEIAy7kAeWE

>>377721317

this makes no fucking sense

without zoning the game wouldn't make any damn sense

I mean saying this is saying that all attacks should have the same reach and hitboxes/hurtboxes

>>377723951
>HD
First thing you need to know about FG's is too not play HD

>learn to avoid faggots spaming icecars perfectly during CT
unless they are really annoying , i just fuck their shitty tactic till they try different things
then they nerfed ratchel for CS and i didn't played it even after they fixed her in theory

>>377723951
>fireball
>counter jump in shoryuken
>crossup
>counter unsafe shoryuken
>tick throw

huh accurate

>>377721317
As long it's not like NRS "zoning" that makes approach retarded because characters can just place 3 additional fireballs on screen with only a bar the always have.

>opponent keeps doing the same thing over and over
>instead of punishing their predictable shit, you whine
>if the game doesn't give you tools to punish it, then you're playing a shit game (probably a Netherealm game) and should play something else

Cerebella vs peacock is a fun matchup because of deflect

>>377723639
Smash is too different, they eventually get curious and move into "real" 2d fighters. Only Blizzard can be trusted to make a braindead facsimile that can trap them.

>>377721317
Whether it's bait or not, this manages to rile me up. Characters solely focused on zoning you out have a habit of being some of the weakest characters in any given roster honestly because devs are always SO scared of making them too strong. Just chill, block, figure out the pattern they use to jump in on them and kill them

>>377722682
Riot will. Actually, probably. That's why they bought Radiant.

>>377721317
zoning is fun because it gets the most ragemail and ragequits from casualshitters like you

>>377725718
>I don't buy western fighting games. They literally can't do it.
Skullgirls

if your opponent spams fireball then you can predict him shooting a fireball and preventively counter it by jumping in

and dont go "but muh shoryuken anti airing me" on me - that happens when you jump on reaction to seeing him throwing a fireball. if you jump predictively, shortly before he even begins throwing the fireball, your jump-in attack will hit him before he recovers from the fireball.

>>377723698
>2kat

>>377721317
Who hurt you?

>>377721317
>game design trope
"Tropes" are ONLY literary archetypes, there are not game design tropes, you ignorant idiot.

>>377721317
Getting in on zoners is one of the funnest things to do in fighting games since they usually have shit defense upclose so you get to make them cry about combos being too long and rock paper scissors

>>377723639
Zoning and rushdown exist in fucking smash too you fucking retard.

>>377723615
SF5's problems are more related to the lack of combo options. I actually love the pace and flow of the game.

>>377728310
Not him but don't you brony-tier autists call it spacies or some shit? Since you're a fighting game and all, why don't you use the same terms?
This is proof that deep down you all know you're playing a kid's party game.

uh oh someone bought injustice 2

>>377722682
Fucking stop wanting more cancer to be made you faggot.

>>377729184
>Since you're a fighting game

>>377729184
"Spacies" is a term that refers to Fox/Falco. The space animals. Zoning is zoning. Rushdown is rushdown.

>>377729184
Kind of embarassing that a party game happens to be more deep and long lasting than actual fighting games.

>>377721317
>"Zoning" is the biggest load of bullshit in fighting games.
It's an ubiquitous facet and critical in all fighting games. Even smash requires a knowledge of your zone of influence versus your opponents.

>It's an antiquated game design trope and it needs to be removed in the interest of fun for everyone.
A fighting game without zoning would be two characters that do not move backwards or forwards, but only do attacks and blocks until one person is proper pummeled.

Your game is a fancy Rock'em Sock'em Robots.

>If you spend the whole fight zoning your opponent then it's stale, frustrating, and requires zero tactical comprehension.

Actually, if someone spends their whole fight zoning, then his opponent either is not properly skilled enough yet to deal with his zoning... or the guy doing the zoning got wrecked but continued to try and abuse zone anyway.

Your argument is that zoning has no place in fighting games, but it is, in fact, integral to the design. You also argue that it requires no skill, which in some circumstances is correct, but is also (in actual GOOD fighting games) easily counterable, which means its not a fault on the game design but rather the players lack of knowledge or skill.

>>377723043
It wasn't ever a problem in fps games unless you count spawn camping.

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>>377730024
>Kind of embarassing that a party game happens to be more deep and long lasting than actual fighting games.
>more deep and long lasting
>He hasn't played Melty Blood

>>377730024
>embarassing
You have characters from children's game in them like pokemon and a community infamous for smelling bad.
Don't talk about embarrassment when your game is the king of that.

>more deep
sad how you actually believe this. It has worse dash and mash than and braindead guessing games than SFV.
The only deep things smash has is in melee's glitches and you guys know that which is why you won't change controllers.

>>377730726
if the game favors sitting in a spot doing nothing until somebody else comes along doing something active first then it's a shitty stupid game

space control should be one of the most, if not the single most important aspect of a fighting game
if it isn't it's probably fucking garbage

>>377726379
Killer Instinct 2013. They took a shitty gimmick game from the 90s and turned it legit while retaining the core gameplay mechanics.

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>all these people saying "Injustice has broken zoning" while defending zoning
You guys aren't good if you can't get past NRS zoning. The only character that was indeed broken was Kabal, and not because of his zoning, but because of his up-close game.
There's literally no excuse: if you lose to zoning in ANY fighting game, you are TRASH.

>>377732478
zoning is broken at the low level where people like OP and smashplayers are too stupid to experiment in training mode or search the internet

>>377732801
It's "broken", it's just scrubs being scrubs.

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>>377721317
>stale
Depending on the game.

>frustrating
That's the point.

>requires zero tactical comprehension
It's entire thing is tactical. You can fuck a bad zoner up the ass in a heartbeat.

>>377731017
>You have characters from children's game in them like pokemon and a community infamous for smelling bad.
Don't talk about embarrassment when your game is the king of that.

Have you seen other fighting game communities? it's literally no different.

>
>more deep
sad how you actually believe this. It has worse dash and mash than and braindead guessing games than SFV.The only deep things smash has is in melee's glitches and you guys know that which is why you won't change controllers.

We won't change controllers because digital inputs give an advantage over a controller, and raise the cap to those who can afford new controllers or have the time to put into relearning. Only deep thing is glitches? What about DI/SDI, most fighting games have a meter to escape combo's or a burst, melee is constantly a back and forth between your attempt to combo, your opponents di/sdi and you in turn trying to mix them up with di traps.

>>377723698
Can't blame him the game is really bad

>>377734001
you need to go back

>>377721317
Literally git gud, fag

>spamming moves that have good frames is okay

I want this to stop.

>>377722216
>comparing a real life scenario with tactical benefits vs a make believe kamehameha shooting out of someone's hands in one on one combat in order to out space them, whittle their health down, and do while doing this safely as it also defeats the premise of hand to hand close range combat.
k

>>377734601
Camping is in violation of the Geneva Convention.

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>>377734001
>can't even greentext right
How embarrassing.

>>377721317
>t.shitter

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Boy I just cannot wait til platforms fighters completely take over your stagnant outdated rps simulators. You know its fucking sad when an ancient game like melee, and a game like smash 4 that basically doesn't even have a properly function training mode, laggy as shit online play, and not even a simple ranked mode are destroying the numbers of every other fighting game not name street fighter at EVO.

So long as fighting games don't do away with their garbage controls and constant RPS or 50/50 situations, the genre will never ever move forward.

What character/game should I play if I want to style on people like OP who can't counter zoners?

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>>377721317
Is this you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WetHkYVtw&t=217s

>>377721317
But if you're losing against zoning that mean it's a better tactic than your right?

>>377736740
Can't wait till Wavedash is released. Then there will be THREE fuckhueg platform fighters at events, also Rivals is still picking up steam.

>>377736740
>garbage controls and constant RPS
that's smash. we should just go back to chess

>>377730726
>It wasn't ever a problem in fps games
I think you mean third person shooters

>>377737673
How does smash have garbage controls when it has the highest casual fanbase out of any kind of fighter?
Smash's whole deal is that its EASY to pick up and play, unlike traditional fighters that typically take newer players too much time to adjust to.

You know its fucking bad when top players play rock paper scissors before matches to be on specific sides of the screen so that they can more consistently throw out their inputs.

As for the RPS, its incredibly rare that you will get caught up in loops of actual HARD RPS because there are usually simply too many factors to considering outside of tech chasing in melee, and even then eventually with higher percents or through reaching the ledge, characters will usually be able to break out of tech chase loops. Even then only select characters can actually even do it in the first place to a select few characters like Sheik on fox. You typically ever get zero to death because you guessed wrong in a game of rps that even a toddler can play five times like in fighting games. At least in smash when you have to guess shit like where a guy is gonna roll you need good spacing, timing, anticipation, etc. But Okizeme in fighting games is just "pick an option and hope for the best"

>>377737607
Is Rivals actually starting to get a bigger community? I've been looking for something other than smash to play, but I've feared picking up rivals because I've felt the game didn't really have any future and that online play would consist of like fighting 3 different people. I love how the game is basically completely skill dependent, lacking any kind of RPS bullshit whatsoever though. Is the online better than smash 4's when it comes to lag?

>>377739260
oki confirmed the only aspect of fighting games

>>377736740
>numbers
Fuck, just play overwatch or a moba or something if you care about that.

>>377739748
Its not obviously, but its such a big and important factor even at high level play that its very difficult to take it seriously and really give a shit about the outcome of matches. In the Webm I posted above, the one getting obliterated off just guessing wrong is one of the greatest fighting game players of all time and has been playing for YEARS! And what decided the match? A series of grabs than even a toddler could have done because it was entirely just a series of guesses. There isn't any skill involved in guessing anon, its just luck. Certainly you can kind of see patterns in the RPS options people choose, but for the most part, its really just dumb luck. The problem is that when you get knocked down once, an entire match could be decided by a series of incorrect guesses, which is TERRIBLE for competitive play. The fact that top players stake their entire livelyhoods on potentially just having shit luck after fucking up once in the neutral is downright baffling to me.

>>377739987
No shit that isn't all that matters, but its incredibly important. Its the difference between games being continued, discontinued, a huge community of players, what game gets decided at Evo, what kind of fighters are successful. If you don't give a shit about numbers, you're actually retarded. I don't know about you, but I'd rather play a game I like that other people are playing than one that people aren't. How are you supposed to play a game meant to be played with others without the others after all.

>>377741432
wow it's almost like sf5 sucks lmao

>>377741490
And this isn't possible in pretty much every other fighting game at Evo right now?

>>377741653
show me literally 1 high level match of any fg ever besides sf5 where somebody gets normal thrown 4 times in a row I'll wait

>>377741787
there are throwloops in ST, but SFV definitely suffers from its lack of defensive mechanics. Its simplicity stifles creativity and makes it boring to both watch and play too. I'm convinced that the only way you can still be playing it is if you're invested in the e-sports or a local scene or you're just new to fighting games altogether.

>>377742460
if you are getting throw looped in st it means you lost neutral aka got soundly outplayed, the rest is just a formality
also you can just reversal dp unless you're getting thawk or honda os'd

>>377742601
reversal timing can be tight in ST but I agree. SFV doesn't even require that much from you because of the giant input buffer. The slow walkspeeds, shorter and more delayed (input-wise) normals, and weaker fireballs make it easier for you to get placed into those situations also. The game can feel very random.

>>377741787
The fact that you're specifically asking for grabs shows me that you've missed the entire point. It doesn't have to be a grab, just a series of moments where you're FORCED to make pure guesses. Even the most basic shit like frame traps are basically the same RPS shit as being knocked down. Think about it, if you're shielding and I hit you with a move that's +5 on block, this is a situation where we both have to guess. Since you're stuck in shield you have to guess what I will do from three core options, will I hit you, grab you, or block your reversal? (If you have one)

So say I guess right and I confirm a jab combo into a knockdown. Now you have to guess again, now I get a grab and knock you down again, guess again. Now you reversal, but I blocked and its unsafe. Knocked you down again. The entire match can literally just be this, does not have to just be grabs.

>>377743046
you can piano the buttons to get reversal on negative edge so it's not THAT hard if you know that

>>377743154
>lose neutral in sf
>get raped
>wow omg rps
get raped nerd

>>377742601
Yeah but for losing neutral once the entire match you get throw looped to death? People sometimes just throw out random shit and obviously it will work sometimes because moves like shoryuken have invincibility or really good priority despite being unsafe. And just from that one fuck up, its fair that the rest of the match be decided by guesses? That's complete horse shit and you know it.

>>377743154
you should play alpha 2 where you get cc'd for 80%

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>>377723951
>those ugly UDON "sprites"

>>377739260
>How does smash have garbage controls
top players ruin their hands playing these games at a competitive level. Having more button mashing casuals that are only there for pokemon or some other kid's game franchise doesn't change this fact.

>its incredibly rare that you will get caught up in loops of actual HARD RPS
that's because it's rare for you casuals to get to the player skill level where this isn't rare. most don't go there because they don't want to ruin their hands so they just watch, hence high twitch viewers

>>377743509
it's not, have better neutral
the only bullshit with throws is thawk os and boxer whiff kick rush into grab, everything else is completely legit

>>377743328
>Shit he's right, my arguments are complete trash so I will now resort to name calling.

That's fine anon, my point will eventually become undeniable with more future numbers. Just be patient until then I suppose.

>>377743846
thanks for conceding

>>377721675
>at higher levels everyone knows how to deal with zoning and you have to be amazing to still make it work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xidXHA8c7Ic

>>377744226
I hope you aren't implying that kurahashi isn't an absolute fucking god for winning that

Every FG needs a reflec char that can reflect projectiles as easily and the zoner can spam them

>Play a fighting game.
>Complete newbie, only know a few strings and it hurts my fingers trying to do them.
>Manage to win one fight out of 20.
>Friend flips shit and gets on my case for "spamming" and not using enough jabs.
When did you grow out of fighting games and learn they're for cunts, /v/?

>>377734275
Nice rebuttal.

Let me make this simple for you.

Every single character in a fighting game is a zoner, they just do it in different ways. This is true for ryu, sagat, blanka, fei long, literally anyone.

If you don't understand something so basic you aren't qualified to criticize any fighting game, no matter how good or bad you might actually be at them.

>>377743674
>top players ruin their hands playing these games at a competitive level. Having more button mashing casuals that are only there for pokemon or some other kid's game franchise doesn't change this fact.

This is a good point, Melee is outdated after all, however, this is not the case for smash 4 which is what I actually had in mind when making this point. Sorry for not clearing that up earlier.


>that's because it's rare for you casuals to get to the player skill level where this isn't rare. most don't go there because they don't want to ruin their hands so they just watch, hence high twitch viewers

I was widely considered the best or one of the best players of my character for a long time til I lost interest in smash and even picked up a more traditional fighting game at some point and became a champion at one of that games official company endorsed events. I know what high level play is like for both kinds of games anon. You're just making baseless assumptions without actually addressing the point I was making. If you had won a fraction of the tournaments I've won in my life maybe you would have realized how luck based fighting games are a long time ago. See? I can make bullshit assumptions too.

>>377739260
It's very obvious you know nothing about melee. Just fuck off already.

>>377743674
>injury means the controls are garbage

People hurt their hands playing smash because of how the apm of playing the game. that has nothing to do with controls, and has to do with game mechanics

>>377736740
>no teching the throw

>>377744838
hello I see you have never seen sf5 "high level" matches

>>377723615

SFV's problems wouldn't be solved by more competent zoning.

I agree with the general idea of OP, though, zoning isn't a fun tactic to deal with regardless of whether it's shitty or not.

>>377744226
damn, that fight was intense

>>377732478
>if you lose to zoning in ANY fighting game, you are TRASH.

Chris G is the only good MvC3 player confirmed.

>>377744707
Good argument anon. Maybe now you can actually tell me why you think so this time so I can maybe address it or learn why I was wrong?

>>377721317
Having Deadshot problems huh?

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>>377744928
If he teched the throw he would have been out of there. It was just a huge coincidence that he guessed wrong every time. People will still use that webm as a "why fighting games are stupid" example until the end of time though, like "crouching chun-lis.webm" from 3S.

>>377744928
Not him, is it really that bad? Couldn't he just jump? Couldn't he just mash DP? I wouldn't know because the game is boring and ugly to me and I don't want to play it.

>>377743154
Maybe you should not have get outplayed in neutral and end up with your back cornered. If you're in the corner, you're very likely to lose simply because your movement is limited.

>>377744226
For better or worse, you will never see this in V.

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>>377745151
>If he teched the throw

>>377745159
>>377744838
Early Charlie was annoying, as >>377745151
said, He just guessed wrong everytime, but even if he teched, charlie was so annoying, that he could've just pressured again and put him in the same situation, Ryu would've to be godlike with a parry or something to get out and turn it around

>>377745159
SFV is a shit game with no defensive options so you get these dumb situations in the corner. It's basically either take the throw for a little bit of damage and stun, or get your throw/dp baited by a shimmy and eat a fat combo into stun and then you die. Teching throws is so much more risky people are less willing to do it.

>>377732478
Or the matchup makes it hard, or the other guy just happens to be better at zoning than you are at getting around it.

Competent zoning can make you feel like you have no options, but at a distance, with a clear mechanic to blame your problem on (the fireball).

So when you really can't figure out where or why you made the bad decision, it's easy to fall into silly like OP's silly post.

>>377745151
>If he teched the throw he would have been out of there.

No he wouldn't have, he would have just been forced into another guessing game of which button to press and if he guesses wrong he loses the game.

Yes, you can boil every offensive interaction in fighting games down to this, but SFV is a special case because every character was gutted of their unique defensive tools so Ryu deals with this situation as well as any other member of the cast.

>>377735312
>I can't refute him so I'll ignore what he said and attack something that has nothing to do with the discussion and declare myself victorious with a reaction image

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You fuckers would defend a literal flying magical M4 being dropped into the Tekken/DoA/Virtua Fighter roster.

>>377745186
Anon, I literally just mention how a frame trap, which mind you, can happen from anywhere in the screen, is an RPS moment that can lead to a knockdown. If I just keep sweeping/comboing you in to a knockdown and grabbing you over and over, does it make a difference if you're in the corner or not? Guessing is guessing.

>>377721317
>t. grappler main

>>377732478
>only character that was indeed broken was Kabal
Cyrax

>>377746287
Isn't one of the main points of Tager that he can pull in those pesky zoners once he tags them? As opposed to typical grappler stalking or Potemkin shenanigans.

>>377721445
>predict your opponent will fireball
>jump over it and get punished
ftyf

>>377746079
>smash player proves that he's a fucking embarrassment by failing at greentexting on 4chan at all places
>p-pls refute his arguments

>>377732478
Didn't MK3 or UMK3 have some absolutely broken shit with human smoke?

>>377746442
>green-texting on an image board is far more important than any actual discussion

You people really are the lowest form of refuse on Earth.

>there's no guessing in smash
your "combos" are literally a series of guesses
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7VauhChQ10

in fighting games, they call it reads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmomu-bxqTA

>>377746734
>discussing with literal retards
no thanks

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>>377721317
>your main has shitty defensive options and has little to no unpunishable safe moves that your only means of being offensive/defensive is to use your zoning tools or else youre fucked.

Git gud

>>377746873
>hurr I call the same thing different names so I can poo-poo the doo-doo all over the game I hate!
>hurr if you can't use meme arrows like I think you should I am the superior creature snarf snarf!

>>377746734
Fuck off reddit

>>377721317
I miss CT

>>377746873
Smash 4 does have guaranteed combos but they are damage-dependent, for both characters.

Ryu, for example, has guaranteed touch-of-deaths on a few characters regardless of their inputs. But only at specific percents; at others, the combos stop working, or allow the opponent to manipulate their way out.

But the Smash community's co-opting and mangling of existing terms ('string' and 'option select' is even fucking worse) makes it difficult to discuss anything with them.

>>377746398
Not as broken as Kabal, nowhere near.
>>377746542
Those games are fucked, if we are talking about fighting games, we should not be taking into consideration stuff that's beyond repair.
>>377746024
>match up
This is just a particular match up, and every character has bad match up, regardless of zoning existing or not.
>competent zoning
In other words, better footsies. Losing to zoning is losing to honest gameplay.

>>377747235
>Losing to zoning is losing to honest gameplay.

Of course. I just think it's harder for people to understand what they did wrong against a zoner.

Or rather, it's easier to get in the situation of thinking they made the right decision but still lost; "I jumped over the fireball at the earliest time but still got hit by another move" and so on.

It's fun to make fun of and berate them but I think there's a more constructive approach. I don't know what it is.

>fighting game players refuse to let smash players into their seekrit cloob because you can fight more than one opponent at once
>even though smash is by definition a game in which the purpose is to fight your opponent(s)
>by literally every definition of "fighting game" that doesn't have arbitrary rules in order to exclude smash, smash is a fighting game

I will literally never stop laughing at this. I love calling smash a fighting game just to see the butthurt from retards trying to "defend" their genre from something they don't like.

>>377747604
Literally the only place on the internet that thinks Smash can't be a fighting game is /v/

FGC accepted them(But not their deodorant habits) long ago

>>377747720
Nigga you can't be serious

>>377747585
Yes, but I don't think this thread is legitimate. Whenever I'm in the Injustice discord I do give proper advice to beat zoning, but I'm fairly positive people are just scrubs not wanting to learn/trolling in this thread.

>>377747604
no one wants to be associated with brony tier autists. this is the true reason why the FGC doesn't want smash

>>377747604
>refuse to let smash players into their seekrit cloob

Both Melee and Smash 4 have been at fighting game majors for years now.

>>377747604
The only problem I've seen with Smash and the FGC is online, not offline.

>>377748015
Smash kids were kept in the basement at canada cup last year.

The unholy smell. My god.

It permeated through Sunday but at least there was ST and USF4 to make it worth going down there.

>thread made for crying about zoning
>smash players sperging out in it
seems about right

>>377747604
I really don't give a shit. I just don't understand why smash players want to be accepted as a fighting game so badly. You're at Evo, you have your tournaments, and your own little community going on. What do these people need to prove? What else do they want?

>>377747989
>Go to any major tournament
>Smash is there, lots of coverage and attendants, main event

>Go to small tournaments
>Smash is there, lots of attendants

>Go to Eventhubs/Shoryuken/Whatever
>Smash is there, lots of coverage

>Youtube
>Tons of views on each video

>Go to /v/
>Smashbabbies
Gets the noodle noggin

>>377748191
Is this supposed to be a Puff joke or something?

>>377748232
They're literally there to give TO's free money as nobody who watches Smash watches other games

>>377739987
>Comparing MOBA/Shooters with fighting games

Wew lad

>>377748394
>nobody who watches Smash watches other games

I do.

Sajam and TastySteve started their own Excellent Adventures right?

What's it called again? Saw it mentioned once here.

>>377748394
I was somewhat concerned at Evo last year, when the seats really emptied out after Melee finals.

But in the end, everything filled back up, and was fairly exciting and entertaining.

I don't know what that says about the communities. But maybe things just aren't that clear cut all the time.

>>377748882
Well congrats anon you're in the vast minority

>>377749023
The communities could not be more different

>>377748542
>missing the point
lurk moar, smash kid
you're making your fellow manchilds look bad

>>377746406
Last I checked nobody's got recovery frames that short but Guile, and he's charge.

>>377749108
gotta make use of those iframes.

>>377746406
That's a potential price of relying on reactions instead of prediction.

>>377721317
i don't find zoning that much of a problem unless it is on SF5 and NRS games, it is usually fault of the devs for making it too strong for some characters.

>>377748980
The Recipe. Its on CCTV and they play Revelator and Killer Instinct. You have to pay for it.

>>377721317
>tfw I think fighting games are fun but I can only play at a casual level
>get my shit destroyed every time I step online
Why is everyone who plays these games so fucking good?

>>377746873
While I would agree that Smash players are autistic for calling strings combos, there are more than plenty of true combos in smash 4. In fact, most of those were true combos because either the player's DI was trash or they put you in situations where even if you chose different options, you would still get hit by something else or die. Most combos you can pretty much escape with good DI and basically completely reset the neutral. If you're really good enough, in the situations where players dodged and got hit because of it, you can actually just jump first then air dodge to completely ignore the 50/50 nature of those situations. Anyways, my point wasn't that smash has ZERO guessing, just that you wouldn't be caught in LOOPS of constant guessing til you die. Because of knockback and DI, you'll almost always be able to break away from any kind of RPS loop eventually. Even then, at the very least RPS moments in smash at least take skill and knowledge of the game to perform. In Street fighter and most traditional fighters all you need to know is how to throw out a move that knocks down and how to grab to put someone in a loop.

>>377749513
Baddies like you get good or stop playing

>>377749513
Years of practice and most skills for one fighting game transfers to another

>>377749108
>not blocking and walking forward for a few miles

What a scrub. It probably takes that guy a couple hundred frames to reload that gun.

>>377749558
>smash 4
No one cares.

>>377749558
I wish Bowser's custom side-b was his normal move, so Smash 4 could have a feasible grappler threat.

You have some characters who are better at getting the grab and setting up those scenarios but the game is truly missing the archetype.

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61KB, 540x478px

>>377721317
>tfw experiencing CT for the first time

I wanna go back

>>377749108
>He can't parry sniper bullets

LMAO DUDE

>>377749513
They've been playing for years, some even decades, and a lot of the skills transfer over. If you and a vet start on a new fighter at the same time, chances are the vet is going to improve at 10 times the rate you do. If they like the game, they'll probably have more hours in it than you as well, making the skill gap even larger.

>people complain about zoning
>they never played Zangief v. Dhalsim

Fucking plebs

>>377749558
>true combos can be ruined by DI
so you can guess out of this true combo?

>>377750946
Some are, so they aren't true. Some aren't.

Anon is part of the problem here. This is what I was mentioning earlier - a lot of smash people conflate terms and misuse them.

He shouldn't label di-dependent strings of hits "combos".

Burst mechanics in many games arguably mean that most combos...aren't, but that doesn't really count.

Wouldn't kicking in a dress that short be a bad idea?

>>377751791
Only if you gave a shit.

>>377721317
Except for the fact that zoners generally have shit for defenses.
I mean, I play Venom in guilty gear, and if you catch me without a teleport option, or I make a bad call on a ball formation, you can take off a ton of health. I don't have any good defensive tools without spending meter either. I mean, I don't even have a reversal.

>>377750946
For certain ones and at certain percents yeah, it depends because of knockback. Usually if there is a way to get out of it, there is no guessing, you just get out and reset neutral. And DIng actually takes a lot of skill and knowledge of individual characters to do properly, unlike straight up playing the okizeme.

>>377751465
The term true combo is used differently by everybody you nimrod, its not my fault that the community has fucked it up to the point. I was defining a true combo in smash as a combo if it is registered as one by the game. Even ones that are diable are STILL registered as combos. If the game is literally telling me its a combo, who the fuck is actually right? Your dumb ass or the game?

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>>377721317
It's actually the most interesting of the designs since they are more difficult to design, balance and play.

It takes only 1 right read for the offensive player to win but takes a whole match of solid play for the zoner to win.