>game has a morality system >you'll be rewarded if

>>377607505
>the bad option is just more gold than usual

regards Bioshock 1

>>377607658
>often at the expense of killing/getting rid of questgivers/future followup quests that give much better rewards

>>377607505
name one fucking game that does that

>>377607658
>>377607798
>>377607505
>There are consequences for being destructive, evil little faggots

Hi Antifa. Ready to be a martyr for your cause?

>>377608162
Here's your reply.

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>>377608162
be evil doesn't mean only to be destructive
look at starwars, Palpatine tried to build stable imperium and only rebels bring destruction everywhere

>>377608162
>2 factions
>both seek to expand and prosper but share different views/goals
>devs are biased towards faction A
>if you don't become faction A's little bitch you might as well uninstall
>you can't even join faction B

>>377607973
Metro Last Light

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>>377607505
>game has a morality system
>it's reflected through a multi-faceted conclusion rather than a binary Good or Evil outcome

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>>377607505
>game has a morality system
>you'll be rewarded if you only pick the bad option

>game has a morality system.

>Being good rewards you with powerful trinkets and family heirlooms are quest rewards

>Being evil nets you more cold hard cash.

I think this is the best way to do it.

>>377609108
It's almost as if gaming is often a method of storytelling, and not every story is a choose-your-own-adventure.

It's almost as if all of the best stories are set in stone because if the story was really that great it wouldn't need a dozen shitty filler stories surrounding it.

>game has morality system
>you literally turn into an angel or demon

>>377607775
But that really isn't true
If you killed the Sisters you got more adam instanly, if you let them live you got gifts and more adam gradually
It was

>>377610735
>the best thing you can buy pales in comparison to a good 20% of the stuff you can get in the good playthrough
Alternatively
>gold is common as dirt by mid game

>there has to be rewards for ALL my moral choices
You have to be 18+ to post here

>>377610735
Or being good simply doesn't reward you.
There needs to be an imbalance to make sure that it's a meaningful decision.

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>game has good/bad endings
>main character from game comes back years later in another game having made the "evil" choice

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>>377607505
>the game has to tell me and decide for me if something is good or evil

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>>377607505
I prefer when the reward or outcome isn't evident until much farther into the game.

Less save scumming for the best reward and more seeing the long-term effects of how you've affected things.

What are some games where being evil is actually pretty cool, other than Mask of the Betrayer or Soul Nomad? Tyranny was fucking shit and the Blackguards series doesn't go far enough for my liking.

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>>377611215
The only one I can think of is Drakengard.

Kind of.

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>>377611215
Best girl.

>>377609108
Fallout 3

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>>377611347
>being evil is actually pretty cool
Do you mean like being a needlessly violent mass-murdering edgelord like Kratos?

Or being a dickhead who has some form of pragmatic reasoning behind their actions like Renegade Shepard?

>>377611090
then what are you doing here?

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>>377607505

>game does not let you be a murdering morality autist

>>377611579

Either/or, but not "guy who's working towards objectively good ends but is just a jerk about it" like Renegade Shepard.

>game has good and evil routes
>Best ending is losing the final battle in the evil route

>>377608162
>politics not mentioned anywhere
>still have to bring them up because you can't go 5 minutes without being an annoying cunt

>>377611215
Infamous was close, they based it off trophy percentage iirc.

>>377609108
far cry 4?

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>Good is being a total bitch
>Evil is being a twat
>No middle path

>game gives you options between two factions
>the "good" faction has 4x the content as the "bad" faction
Thanks Fallout NV

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>game has no cheat codes

Fantastic how fallout new vegas rewards you for being bad, fuck bethesda

>>377613892
They are called DLC now, get with the times

>>377607505
>Game allows for crafting and modifying
>It's so extreme that you can spend weeks on discovering what you can or not and there is still a lot to find out

>>377611215
Canon ending of the first Blood Omen is the bad one.

And it's the best one.

>>377607505
>game has reputation system
>it's just good/bad bars for every faction and party member which unlock some abilities
>you never know if a rude dialogue option or some other negative choice will decrease the "good" bar or will increase the "bad" bar

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>>377607505
>evil choice rewards you with more loot
>good choice rewards you with more experience instead

Perhaps the thing I hated the most in the KOTOR games was some of the Darkside choices being psychopath behavior. Come on, I don't just want to go around murdering people for kicks, I'm just in it for myself.

>>377613754

I honestly kind of wish they had just left joining the legion out instead of leaving it as uncompleted as it was.

>>377613754
>the "good" faction has 4x the content as the "bad" faction

In general I have an issue with how being "bad" in games is handled. It's either done solely for rewards that don't matter or for instant gratification at the loss of actual real fucking content.

I think overall people are more likely to just pick to save the ye old man instead of stabbing him if both options are equally boring as shit and the stabbing option removes the old man from the game world as a whole making it smaller and the stabbing is usually not very "fun" and the reward is either something like you getting a 5+ sword as opposed to a 5+ mace or getting 30 more gold.

I'd rather games do "bad" as self serving but a lot of the times you're a dick for no reason and if it is for self serving reasons they're usually minor shit. Like you go out of your way to steal from a grandma or stab a random dude in the street and take his shit and it's all for really useless stuff overall. Sure you might get more gold or you might skip like a single encounter but if you aren't shit you're probably steam rolling whatever game your in so the need to do bad shit for minor rewards seems pointless.

If it was more like "the dungeon keeper asks you to solve ten trials within the dungeon below to gain the sword of the hero" and then you just punch him and take the sword I could get behind something like that where to both the player and character being a dick has more clear and worth it benefits.

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>Morality system is just a choice between two all-or-nothing options

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>No video game on with 9 choices
feels bad

>>377610678
I don't mind this. Being good should be a conscious choice rather than a means to an end, in fact, morality systems should have choices for "good with rewards" and "good without rewards" as some people choose to be good for rewards, while others choose to be good solely to be good

>>377615126
what is the explanation of this image?

>>377614457
>Evil route grants you more power and better loot
>Good route grants you more allies and more story

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>>377607505
>game's morality system is more focused on how you treat individual communities and factions
>being friendly with certain factions or communities can ruin your reputation with other factions and communities

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>>377615126

In Fallout 2 you had the Slavers, New Reno, human supremacists in Broken Hills, Scientologists and etc. Whole side of content to be bad. Then, by the time we reached Arcanum it was what, one quest? It's just developers getting lazy.

>>377615536

That lawful neutral one is painfully off.
I will have to assume the others are too.

>>377615583

This is what I hate about video game morality because it doesn't really say anything about your character if you pick the "good" option and also reap superior or equal rewards.

I think the best example of this is in GTAIV when Playboy X hires you to kill Dwayne, which the game portrays as a big moral dilemma in whether Niko is more interested in getting paid or doing the right thing.

Then you get to the rewards.

Kill Playboy X and you'll get
>His apartment, the biggest and best in the game, for free
>A new parking spot
>An exclusive outfit in the closet that's a callback to an older game
>Dwayne as a friend with one of the most interesting bonuses in the game

Kill Dwayne and you get...
>Money

That's it. The game places a huge emphasis on moral choices and yet this is what you get. The good route is substantially more rewarding than the evil one, and this happens every time you get this choice throughout the game. Even the choice whether or not to kill Darko has Niko go on a rant about how empty and shitty he feels for doing it rather than leaving some ambiguity as to whether or not he did the right thing.

Games with morality systems should reward you for being good in some cases, but ultimately it's much more interesting to give the good paths shittier rewards because the entire point of being a truly good person is that you reject materialism and self-interest and are willing to make sacrifices to do the right thing. Making is so every instance of doing good is having your cake and eating it too makes such choices meaningless on a spiritual level.

>game has a morality system
>it fails so much in making you care about it at all 99% of players just look up the route with the most content and go down that path

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>you kill the shop owner
>the shop is forever closed

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>>377615536

>>377616456
>>377611215
who is this cum drum?

>>377615952
You're wrong. I'm all for loving old games, but please, if you praise them, be truthful about this

>>377616454
>be developer
>make game with a morality system
>want to make a good game with it
>realize you have to make it twice over to make it a good game
>more so if it's a reputation/faction system
>shortchange/gimp one or more of the player's options

It's inevitable.

>>377616456
>shop is put up for sale
>buy shop
>rent it out to another shopkeeper

Fable had it's moments.

>>377616854
Demecia from Villains.

Hope you're up on your Spicspeak.

>>377616964

>You're wrong.

No.

>>377617095
>Hope you're up on your Spicspeak
native at it, but i only want porn anyways

>>377612954
second

It really annoys me that your only moral choices are to be some cunt's errand boy or to be xxnarutoxx darkfiend the hedgehog and kill everyone for no fuckin' reason.

>>377616262
Exactly. Plus, it doesn't make sense that evil or bad routes don't reward you substantially more than the good routes, since thats kind of the whole reason people do bad or evil things, cause it gets them more shit in the end. Good people can do good for personal gain, but it's usually a very small gain, or just a gain of personal importance, and the people who do it just to be good don't expect, and sometimes, don't want a reward in the end. A morality system should encompass those ideals, so when the player gets shit on, and knocked around, and struggles over and over again to overcome challenges throughout the game, only to not get any real rewards for doing so, and yet they still choose to make good choices, it makes the conclusion so much sweeter, because you feel like you did it for a greater purpose.

The flipside exists too. Evil choices can be made solely because you're a dick and want to be a dick, rather than because you're gonna get sweet shit out of it. Theres also the possibility of doing bad shit, but with good intentions in the end (end justifies the means) which is also a valid route.

For a truly well made morality system to work, it must encompass a vast assortment of ideals, and their consequences, as well as having satisfying and proper conclusions. For example, just because you choose the evil route, doesn't mean you should be punished in the end, things could turn out well for you, but everything around you has come out on the shitty end of the deal, or even choices that focus on quick rewards and short term goals ends with the long term goal shitting itself. When it comes down to it, it would take a LOT of work to make a proper morality system, which few companies bother to even try at.

>>377615745
I'll try to be concise but the rabbit hole goes much deeper.

which is more ethical: to do nothing when you could have saved five people, or to do something and deliberately kill one person to save those five people?

To tug the thread just a little harder, imagine the people as different ethnicities, ages, genders, political affiliations.

>>377617294
>Plus, it doesn't make sense that evil or bad routes don't reward you substantially more than the good routes, since thats kind of the whole reason people do bad or evil things, cause it gets them more shit in the end
The difference is that "evil" in games is generally "I will do terrible things because I enjoy them", not "I will break the rules to benefit myself". Games are fantasy.

In games evil MC are generally evil for the same reason as the player: They want to see people suffer, or they want to do bad things because they enjoy that. The reward for the evil path is getting to play the evil path, instead of doing the smart thing you do the destructive or mean thing.

>For a truly well made morality system to work, it must encompass a vast assortment of ideals, and their consequences, as well as having satisfying and proper conclusions.

Which is why we'll never get a good game with a "true" morality system. That shit is not good, games are storytelling and the more stories you can have the less focus each one has. Visual Novels are good examples of how you can totally tell multiple stories in a single game, but you have to keep them separate and basically remove 99% of the input from the player so that the story is still curated to the point of basically being a book. If a player has actual choices and a spectrum of moralities to line up with,the story will be muddled shit most of the time.

>>377611404
But Drakengard 2's based on A I thought.

Metro Last light does exactly that though.

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>>377615126

>>377611215
Metro 2033 and Last Light

although I don't really understand why they distinguished it as the bad ending when it was the most sensible at the time

>>377616454
SMT is so bad about this. The characters are almost always barely one-dimensional and unlikeable representations of alignments that are usually absurdly evil with barely any reason to joining. The Reason characters in Nocturne just meander around for a bit talking down to you and suddenly develop an ideology and expect you to join, but why bother when all the content is on the TDE route? Might always makes right, so you might as well join Neutral because it usually has the most content and you beat the invincible god factions anyways. Your alignment choices are barely even actions you take, they are almost always just questionnaires you have to answer over the course of the game.

SJ is the absolute worst about this, everything is turned up to eleven. Jimenez and Zelenin practically introduce themselves as their respective alignment representatives and never deviate from their roles, something even SMT IV didn't fuck up until the very end. Law and Chaos are totally stripped of their few positive aspects and are just mindless servitude and mindless anarchy now. Neutral has the most content, it has the emotional payoff with Gore and Arthur (Law has nothing and Chaos has a handshake with Jimenez if that even counts?), it just makes the most sense. It's very lenient in how many points you need to go down a route, and there's even an oversight that lets you freely change alignment at any time. Why did alignments even exist in SJ?

>>377615745
>>377615126
>>377618014
https://a.pomf.cat/ikbswu.webm

>>377616262
>the entire point of being a truly good person is that you reject materialism and self-interest and are willing to make sacrifices to do the right thing

not true. only slave morality cucks think this way

>>377607505
I don't remember, but I think Dragon Age balanced it out more or less. At least better than in Kotor.

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>>377607505
>game has a morality system
>being religious is considered good

>>377607505
Actually in Kotor 1 you ended up being king of the galaxy and still get the main girl. The only bad thing is Mission dies and you don't get to turn her into your personal sex slave.

>>377607505

A good morality system should reward the player with story, friends, socially rewarding experience. A bad morality system should reward players with monitary gains and a shit social life since no one decent would hang out with a piece of shit.

>>377615583
The specific game I had in mind, where I made my choices based on what I wanted to do rather than a firm character trait, I ended up taking the bad option more times than the good option. I got a lot of neat artifacts, but ultimately I was given a choice to eat the only good guy in town or slaughter a room full of shop keepers and trash quest givers. Up until this point I was mostly just sacrificing morally degenerate and/or rude people to evil gods, or doing moderately evil stuff.

So instead of eating a guy and receiving a powerful artifact with unique effects, I slaughtered a room full of cannibals, went back to town, found that all the npcs that were unfriendly before now hated me for uncovering a cannibal plot in their neighborhood and killing some of their friends, and that I no longer had a place to buy fresh meat from. Good guy I saved doesn't give me anything of any worth, just goes in to dead npc mode with "thank you".

I think the quest was pretty good despite the overall standard of the game, not a single npc that you save for the good option is memorable or gives you anything in return, but this one actually punishes you for it and leaves a permanent change in the world. I'm not a big rpg player myself but I think it was a quite unique idea there.

>>377619362
A good one should just be a background metric and it should be a faction/reputation system instead.

>>377619362
>one decent would hang out with a piece of shit.

there's a shitton of bad people with connections

>>377618867
Historically religion WAS a tool used to make you "good", though. People invented religion to keep other people in line, like how a parent says "If you eat all your vegetables you'll get dessert". Religion was just "If you don't kill me or steal my stuff you'll go to heaven".

>>377620708
>Religion was just "If you don't kill me or steal my stuff you'll go to heaven".
It was also "If you do not obey us you will burn forever"

>>377620865
And law was if you don't listen to us we'll break your legs and up until recently, closely worked with religion in most locations.