What's so bad about casualizing games and making them accessible

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>>377297954
go on a diet, you fat goblin.

>>377297954
It makes videogames less interesting

>>377297954
Opening for a new audience alienates the original fans.
Just like mangas and anime become hermetical as time goes on because you can't keep reintroducing same characters to potential new readers every tome.

>>377297954
They usually end up short and dull

It makes muh secret club too open

>>377298228
Everyone seems to love BotW

It's not bad. Just increases the audience.

If there's a feature or mode that allows it while not affecting the rest of the game for everyone else that expects a challenge, I think it's fine.
Some people are in this hobby just for stories and what not.

I mean, we've all played a bad RPG or shooter to see where the story goes at least once.

>>377298178
Shut up

>>377298064
This

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>>377297954

because it often results in games completely devoid of any sort of interesting gameplay, and leads to movie like experiences that you might as well watch on youtube


also cuck

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>>377297954
They make them insultingly easy, so streamlined they remove the nice elements like puzzles or actual exploration/problem solving, the people who play those sorts of games have such low atention spans tbe game suffers heavily fron design for that demographic, nice concepts/ideas will be scraped for the sake of casuals and overall, casual games arent bad by themselves but making a core game into a casual almost never ended up better.

Like, realy, of you want to play GAEM, you play GAEM as is, making GAEM into GHAYYME for more players is a bad idea because you arent even getting that many players.

BORN THICKER

I don't think fat literal cuck sterling knows that Dark Souls 3 literally does have an easy mode

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbR7MYGPR6c

>>377297954

>whats so bad about simplificating books so folk without dem fancy smarts can do some readin?

>>377298574

Why do yrannies want to talk about porn and sex all the time?

>>377298670
Their entire life is based on it, think like neo furries, except they went through surgery to get a fake v that lubricates with the same shot as your intestines use if its high tech expensive as fuck and or a fake dick that doesnt work.

>>377297954
It takes away the authentic feeling of accomplishing something great when you know you could have just copped out do it without effort.

>>377297954
You could ask the seven people that still play SW Battlefront.

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>being upset at the notion of someone else playing on easy while you play on hard
Explain this to me

>>377297954
I don't care about easy modes in games. Every game can have a "god mode" selectable at the start for all i care.

What many people miss though, is that "difficulty" isn't as shallow as health or enemy HP. Older games like Mega Man, or newer games like Bloodborne/Souls are deliberately crafted to a certain difficulty.
Level design, enemy placement, item placement, additional mechanics, even the atmosphere. Everything creates the sense of difficulty in those games.
So calling for those titles to be easier, basically means destroying why they're interesting in the first place.

Even if you run through Mega Man or Dark Souls like its nothing, the concept that made the "challenge", still creates the experience. EVen if there's no challenge for you, the experience still stays.

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>>377297954
>I DID IT! I CLIMBED THE TOP OF THE MOUNTAIN! It is thanks to my strength and skill that I can appreciate this great view, only few people can see the view from up here and I'm one of those pe-
>turn to the left
>see pic related

>>377299108
I like a challenge but messing with difficulty settings in single player game is such a crapshoot. You can either get an experience that legitimately feels more challenging or you can just end up making the game a lot more tedious than it was supposed to be. "Enemies get more health + you get less health" is the most common reason the latter happens but there are other ways to fuck it up too.
I think the best difficulty options are where the levels and enemies get directly modified to adjust for it, like how Easy in Mega Man 9 covers up some pits with floating platforms and removes some tougher enemies, or like God Hand making enemies only use their stronger moves on higher difficulties while ramping up their damage only. It technically has an HP inflation setting, but it's only on Hard games where the game's permanently locked to Level Die anyway, but it's still only a 20% health boost which is a lot more fair than most things like that.

>>377299330
literally nothing wrong with this

Anyone who takes this fat fuck seriously is genuinely retarded. It was painfully obvious from the first few reviews he ever made that his entire "personality" is shtick and poorly executed satire that he was forced to commit to when he struck clickbait paydirt in his highfaluten autistic contrarianism.

Saged.

More difficulties mean way less time to develop meaningful content and tweaks to make the game feel good to

Devs barely get enough time to develop games as is

>>377297954
All e-celebs are cancer. Quarantine board when?

>>377297954
Nothing as long as the skill cap of the game is unchanged. The corollary of "easy to learn" is "hard to master" after all. It's just that most of the time that's not the case.

>>377299330
Other people taking the easy way doesn't invalidate your accomplishment. You did it the hard way, which is what you should take pride in, not just reaching the destination.

>>377299440
In that case what is the point of acomplishing anything.
What do we need skill at all. Let's all just be mediocre and then nothing is fun anymore. I'm not about to lie to myself saying taking the lift was hard won.

>>377298670
Don't know about the rest but you are mistaken if you think that's your typical sjw victim girl(man), it's a filthy degenerate, that probably went trans just to annoy people even better and get away with talking about nothing but cocks and assholes, when not pretending to be a journalist. And if in trouble pull the victim card, some retarded goons always have his back.

>>377298642
Same with Sterling, you think cuck is insulting to him? He has no dignity and he probably sucks those cocks fucking his wife too, when he doesn't masturbate over the clicks he gets on his bait reviews and articles, since he sure as fuck doesn't get ad revenue for them, or plays justice man, the one that will stand up for the consumer, in his retarded videos.

>>377299735
Not him but i agree with you. I took the hard way, you took the easy way and i will berate you for it until we both die of old age.

>>377299740
So you are saying, completing a game on FUCK YOU is less impressive because some faggot did it on babby mode?

>>377297954
Same reason not every game has to pander to every demographic.

>>377299330
It's natural to envy and hoard, but you know it just shows that you are an insecure faggot that seeks validation instead of being someone one may seek validation from.

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>>377297954

Three words-EARN YOUR FUN
Besides, if a good game gets casualized, then that version will become more popular and video game makers will start making games of shit quality under the 'casual and easy to play' game banner.
Basically people may want hard things, but at the core, we are all lazy fucks. Besides, you have too many casual games already

>>377299740
in your example only those incapable of climbing the mountain are forced to use the lift

it's up to the individual to decide whether they want to challenge themselves or not

but believing that anyone who does not/cannot climb the mountain should never see the mountain view is simply childish

>>377299440
And when you come back next year they have taken the climbing path away because just they want to focus on the cable car to appeal to a wider audience.

Now if you want to climb a mountain you have to go to a different mountain, if there are any left which you can still climb.

>>377299992
In a game with difficulty settings you're right it isn't. But a lot of games don't have that anymore, one difficulty, average and that's where the problem is that's what this thread was talking about.

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>>377297954
>What's so bad about changing the rules so everyone can stop learning

>>377297954
Nothing, inherently. Invalids, children and the elderly deserve to play games too. Good games, I'm not going to insist they should keep to mobile games and Wii Sports.

What's wrong with people who clearly have the capability to push themselves and get better at the hobby they spend hundreds to thousands of hours in and never get better at, while proclaiming their method to be best?

They're the "film buff" who only watches Micheal Bay movies. The "foodie" who only eats at McDonalds. The model enthusiast who shows up with unpainted, pre-packaged models and lazily slaps them on the table.

They're pathetic, lazy, idle consumers who deserve to be laughed at.

>>377300207
can you please make your argument without the mountain analogy because it doesn't quite work in your post

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>>377297954
Old games = Traditional ways to master techniques

New games = Participation trophy

>>377300581
No i think it works. It's an accurate summary of our grievances here.

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>>377297954
Make Story mode digustingly easy: battles are so inconsequential, they're annoying.

Those that only want combat have all cutscenes taken out, and dialogue only there as context to the battle.

Normal is normal.

This way, you don't penalize people who want to play a certain way, you make them want to play normal.

>>377300581
>dev makes challenging game
>dev dumbs down gameplay and adds easy mode to appeal to wider audience in sequel
>dev dumbs down game even further and moves to a singular difficulty option to appeal to an even wider audience

Is that understandable enough?

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>>377300118
>do something great and get rewarded
>other people get same rewarded for doing shit-all
>"y'know..." *drinks slurpee* "you're only doing this just to seek validation from people like us?"

>>377300763
>>377300720
not if each mountain is supposed to represent a single game, if you understand what i'm trying to say

no (singleplayer) game on its own has been "dumbed down" to my knowledge

>>377297954
I don't mind easy modes or cheats, I just don't like it when gameplay elements get cut out in favor of cinematic experience.

>>377297954
It's a general design principle, the broader your audience, the less likely you are to make something memorable to them and more likely to create a temporary solution to their needs until the next one drops by. That way, you ignore things from your actual audience to appeal to someone that normally wouldn't buy your product. This is shitty for almost everyone but the ones making money, since they get more that way. I think that's bad because it doesn't fulfill what neither public wants, but you can disagree with me because the creators make more money that way, either way, it's both bad and good

>>377301078
Because devs don't make giant changes to games after they're sold, pointless waste of money.
For multiplayer games they have done it plenty of times, just look at how they dumbed down Dota 2 over the years, especially that recent skilltree shit.

But for the most part it applies to game series, where an enjoyable series is ruined because the devs just want to dumb it down to appeal more, which leads to what could have been a great game, but it being shit.

I don't care how much money this man makes. His life is shit.

I can't imagine being that fat, married to that woman, and openly advocating degeneracy like him just so that the insane she beast will tolerate being around him.

>>377300960
Don't. These people don't even comprehend the concept of competition.
They never had to once in their lives.

>>377301265
i agree with your overarching point completely fyi -but- my nitpick is that the removal of the climbing path incorrectly implies that the "original" mountain is no longer climbable which is not true if the mountain is supposed to represent a single game or game series

>>377297954

Nothing, but don't feel bad when we call you a baby for playing your casual baby game.

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Streets of rage did it right

On easy mode the game gives you a pity ending halfway through
Medium you get a "he got away!" ending
Hard ending you fight the true final boss fight and get the true ending

If people can't take the heat, give them a loli pop for trying and tell them to go home.
As the term goes, "no pain no gain", you can't just run 5 meters and expect a golden medal.
You may as well participate in the special olympics.
No-one should get rewarded for doing a shit job unless ofcouse you're a little kid and the coach has to give you a participation reward or else you'll cry and your mum will sue the coach.

Lowering of standards

>>377301679
while games having content locked behind difficulties is fine in my opinion, believing that all games should do this is kind of dumb if you think about it for more than 5 seconds

not as much thought has to be put into design if someone can just skip over something they don't like

games should have cheat codes instead

Why should everyone be allowed in? Nobody owes you anything, if you can't handle the requirements then get good or fuck off.

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Because we all know what happening o things, when they become mass oriented - less deep, less complexity, less effort invested.

>>377297954
More accessible for everyone = Less diverse and interesting game design for everyone

>>377302667
What's with the fanart.

>>377302703
But Bayonetta 2 included a "touch and point to attack" super-easy mode, and it was still pretty good.

>>377299659
A furry board is more deserving than a fucking e-celeb board

>>377297954
You can add easy modes for people who can't beat games on normal, but I like a challenge as long as it isn't done in a cheap way.

The first Devil May Cry is a good example. It gives you the option of easy mode if you keep dying on the first few levels, but the harder modes aren't just "enemies do more damage". On the harder modes, enemies are more aggressive, there are more of the more advanced enemies, and they get their own devil trigger. I've beaten the hardest mode twice, it's fun, I wouldn't want that to go away because someone else says it's too hard for them.

>>377302809
The "an accessible mode for casuals" is based around the naïve idea that those modes have absolutely zero effect in the design of the game itself.

>>377299659
Never, this phrase has become nothing but a meme on here.

>>377303082
But it didn't. Of all of Bayonetta 2's problems, being remotely casualized wasn't one of them. If anything it had the most annoying faggot endgame enemy movesets of both games.

>playing videogames because they're hard
People actually do this? Woah....

>>377301998
okay you're right, not all games are supposed to be a challenge, but what I mean is for those games that are, such as kamiya games, ones where half the fun comes from feeling the accomplishment of striking into a deadly bloodbath and coming out ontop.

>>377303308
>playing sports because it's hard
People actually do this? Woah...
>entering a professional tournament because it's hard
People actually do this? Woah...
>baking a cake because it's hard
People actually do this? Woah...

>>377303308
challenge is fun you nignog, I bet you're one of those fags that buy kirby games every year

>>377303217
The Bayonetta IP was birthed with that mode, that's why no-one cares.

>>377297954
games "back then" were accessible and beatable for anyone too
you just had to spend more than one single try to beat the level

When the entire point of the game is to conquer a challenge, then what the fuck is the point if there's no challenge?

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Casualization kills the best genre there is, survival horror. When you don't even have a combat to be afraid of and there is a checkpoint around every corner, is there even a reason to be afraid? Of a jumpscare? That's for one second and then what? Survival horror games are not survival nor horror anymore. If you played a game for 30 minutes and you don't know where is another save point and even have to manage your save resource because it comes in a limited quantity, and there is a possibility of a monster jumping on you and fucking you up, that adds a completely new layer to the genre.

Even though The Last of Us has checkpoints, playing it on normal is a completely different experience because you have just so much to deal with everything you may as well play it like Uncharted or any other third person shooter. But there are no checkpoints between fights on a higher difficulty so not only you can die in one punch or a stray bullet but when you for example fuck up in the hospital on the second floor you are right back at the beginning. The enemy presence can fuck you up even more than actual fight because you are so afraid to be spotted.

What I really hate is when AI is simplified on easier difficulties. Make them do less damage but keep the experience of their behavior intact.

>>377303785
weenies deserve fun too
jk fuck em

>>377304262

Like I'm sitting here and thinking, is this just a criticism of trial by error game design? Cause I absolutely love that a failure being my fault and having to learn what I did wrong. Fuck this kinda streamlined design process.

>>377298574
So not only is Jim a cuck with an ugly wife, he's getting cucked by an autistic tranny? Someone should just put him out of his misery.

>>377297954
Most games should have an easy mode for whoever wants that

However most popular games are designed not so much for ease, but without challenge in mind at all. Any hard mode or hardcore mode tends to be nothing more than a health/attack boost for enemies.

Games should be designed to be challenging, and then modified to make them accessible to people who just want the click-button dopamine bump and gay stories. Not the other way around. The basic design philosophy and methods for engaging the player in popular games, esp. the open-world genre, are somewhat anti-game. Luckily, a lot of people are bored with that and there's a growing market for games that boast of the challenge they offer.

>>377297954

This is why I fucking Jimmy John Sterlin' Bog. You can't just make a blanket HURR EVERYTHING SHOULD HAVE AN EASY MODE statement. In JRPGs I get why there is an easy mode because there are people who just want to experience the narrative. See also more story driven games. But if a game explicitly depends on its' challenging gameplay to engage its' audience the ABSOLUTE LAST TJING you want to do is "appeal to blue ocean demographics". The blue ocean meme doesn't work for shit like that. All it does is alienate old fans and fail to attract more new fans in the first fucking place. Dark Souls getting an easy mode won't suddenly encourage casuals to pick it up. It will just piss off old fans that remember when the series still had teeth. Contra on NES is tough as fuck but everyone remembers using the konami code to make it easier. Do something like that or what Nintendo does. Make a way to make the game easier but painstakingly make sure the player knows they are on baby mode for doing so.

>>377304258
I didn't come here for these feels (the pic). :(

>>377297954
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7VAhzPcZ-s

This video may or may not have been a parody, but it still holds up and the points are still true, even after all these years.

>>377304728

I agree "trial by error" design of yesteryear was mostly just bad game design but for platformmers for example have gotten to the point now and some even back then where if you fuck up it's nobodies fault but yours. The game didn't throw a cheap death at you, you just suck. THAT'S fine by me.

>>377300701
>new dempsey roll

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>>377297954
Because diversity is good for everything. Some gamers prefer hard games and it isn't right to deny them their games. Difficulty settings do not work well because you will have to design situations multiple times (if you were to do them right) which cuts resources that could be spent on other areas in the game.

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>open relationship

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>>377306480
I'm amazed Jim was able to find a female clone of himself.