>"That's likely more Metroidvania-style games,

>>377289854
shut the fuck up weeb

>>377289854
how bout platform exploration genre? both metroid and sotn were insoired by zelda, after all

>>377289854
Metroidvania is already he accepted term, and normies think exploration can only happen in open world games.

>>377290071

"2D platform exploration game" is the most technically correct, but it's a mouth ful. I want a short term.

>"2D tansaku"

That sounds pretty spot on.

File: snowman.gif (312KB, 498x396px)

312KB, 498x396px

I always thought "Metroidvania" doesn't feel right to me, it's attached to the name of two titles, like still calling FPSes "Doom-clones". So I welcome it.

>>377290229

Yeah, if I'm going to use "metroid-vania", I'd use it specificially for the PS1, GBA, and NDS Casltevania games that play like metroid games. not a total genre for everything.

>>377290229
(same guy) Another alternative would be "Organic Exploration Platformers" or OEP.

>>377290325
>Organic

Why add that?

>His girlfriend at the time (whom he later married) was an employee at Konami working on Castlevania: Rondo of Blood. She gave him tips on how to write the story to Tokimeki Memorial, and he would play Rondo of Blood during breaks.[1].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koji_Igarashi

>>377290349
I added "organic" in the sense that you explore an immersive world with the less transitions possible, as seen in Metroid and Castlevania, to differienciate it to games like Banjo, which have exploration onto them but the transitions are noticeable.
Come to think of it, maybe "Ability-based Exploration Platformers/AEP" would fit the genre better?

>>377290496
>I added "organic" in the sense that you explore an immersive world with the less transitions possible, as seen in Metroid and Castlevania, to differienciate it to games like Banjo, which have exploration onto them but the transitions are noticeable.
>Come to think of it, maybe "Ability-based Exploration Platformers/AEP" would fit the genre better?

well, you're a fag and all your ideas are terrible. So no.

>>377289854
archive.is/aCRhA

I wanna play through some of these, and figured I'd start with SotN. I already have PPSSPP set up, is the PSP version ok? I heard you need to play through Dracula X to unlock the game, does that take very long? Or is it simple enough just to set up a PSX emulator?

>>377290928
PSX Emulator isn't too hard to set up. I don't know about there was a PSP version. If you could find the PSN version they launched for the PSP that would probably be even easier.

>>377290928

Yeah, you need to play through a bit of Dracula X: Rondo of Blood.

I recommend Dracula X first though. It's the prequel and Symphony is a direct sequel. You'll get more out of Symphony if you have any idea who these people are.

The 2D version of Rondo is great.

The only castlevanias I've played are Rondo of Blood, which was my first, SotN and OoE
Which others are worth checking out? I'm not really interested in the Sorrow games or PoR.

how about "door busters"

"non-linear platform exploration obstacle clearers"

>>377291189
Circle of the Moon

>>377290229
>roguelike

>>377291189
>I'm not really interested in the Sorrow games
Why not? They're great.

>>377291189

Aria of Sorrow, Symphony and OoE are my favorites.

Aria is also super important plotwise as it ends one of the major plotlines in the series.

>>377289854
>1503 HP

holy fuck you dont even need that much

>>377289854
or how about just exploration?

>>377291290
>>377291325
The artstyle in DoS and PoR is just really unappealing and I'd feel weird about playing just AoS but ignoring the sequel.
The soul system also doesn't really sound like my kinda thing.

>>377291465
I urge you to reconsider. it's very important you play them, anon.
please, for my sake.

>>377291465
>The artstyle in DoS and PoR is just really unappealing and I'd feel weird about playing just AoS but ignoring the sequel.

Nothing important happens in the sequel. It's just an excuse plot about some cult or something.

Aria is a direct sequel to Symphony. It's important.

>>377291645
Well, alright, guess I'll go check it out.

File: 4-1024_6892.jpg (51KB, 1024x576px)

51KB, 1024x576px

>>377289854
Speaking of this genre, a new entry came out recently on steam called Dead Cells. Fun game, check it out.

Our only hope for a good Metroidvania game is Bloodstained. I already donated $60 for a PS4 version.

>>377289854
>linking to polygon
Drink a gallon of bleach.

File: soma2.jpg (28KB, 423x426px)

28KB, 423x426px

>>377291687
Soma is cool. Do it for him.

>>377291736

>please buy my game

Looks unappealling. Too much red bloom. Reminds me of the mock image of Super Metroid made by Nintendo vs. Super Metroid made by indies with bloom and lasers.

I just want a game set in the medieval or early modern periods going around with weapons, with snappy music plays.

>>377291813
Soma used to be cool.

File: Bloodstained.webm (3MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 1920x1080px

>>377291764
>Our only hope for a good Metroidvania game is Bloodstained. I already donated $60 for a PS4 version.

HAHAHA

>>377291736
why are there so many orange bagpipes?

>>377291764
Momodora, faggot.

Ah, except
>fifth entry will be in Unreal Engine and thus a disappointment as huge as Bloodstained, if not MN9-levels
There's still Momodora 4 though.

>>377291645
the art in DoS isn't even that bad.

besides, there's almost no portraits, in any of the games. using that as the main reason not to play something is pretty weak.

>>377292068
>Momodora 5

huh?

>>377290179
Sounds good. Like kino

>>377292068

>Meme-real engine

Can they stop using this? Please? Unity and Unreal are shit engines. They're only tolerable if you heavily modify them.

Just hire some programmers and make your own engine. It's not THAT hard.

>>377292187
>>377292263
Ah. Looks like it was Unity, not Unreal.
https://archive.is/BUB1n

Same shit though.

Who the fuck actually used the term igavania?

>>377292406
>Who the fuck actually used the term igavania?

I've seen people use it on /v/. It's cringey. It's like giving him sole credit for the genre.

Is Ori good? My PC can't run many recent games.

>>377292350
>3D


oh no....

>>377291325
>Aria is also super important plotwise as it ends one of the major plotlines in the series.
Not really. Sure, Julius "defeated" Dracula "for good" but Soma is the reincarnation of him and becomes a vampire anyway.

>>377292263
>Multi-million dollar game engines used by hundreds of studios worldwide
>Bad

>Making your own custom game engine
>Easy

Not sure if you're deluded or just uneducated

>>377292263
Making an engine is a lot harder than making a game on an existing engine.

>>377292542
And it looks like N64 OoC on an emulator running in the lowest settings.

The developer will say it's Souls-inspired though.

Why the fuck do they always do that? Momodora 4 was fantastic in 2D. Iga's Castlevanias were fantastic in 2D. Why not just fucking use pygame or something, if you're so set on shitty engines?

>>377292613
>Multi-million dollar game engines used by hundreds of studios worldwide
>Bad
It is.

The biggest hardware factory in the world is FOXCONN, and their products are flimsy as shit.

I wish Hollow Knight came out on Switch already. I want to play a really good metroidvania (assumedly good atleast) but I have really hard time playing these games if they arent portable.

>>377291885
Anyone who played the demo seemed to enjoy it.

File: 1493049111882.png (13KB, 400x240px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 400x240px

>>377292837
Did you already beat Blaster Master?

>>377290394

>father was a lumberjack
>explored castles in his youth
>taught himself basic and assembly
>girlfriend gives him writing tips for his dating game and lets him play the new Castlevania game on breaks

Is he our guy?

File: Westworld-S1E2-5-1200x675.jpg (35KB, 507x539px)

35KB, 507x539px

>>377289854
So, is there any news since then?

What he is up tom, now that Shitstained left me alone at anime prom night

>>377293065
Iga pls.

>>377293018
Have they patched in support for using the pro controller?

We need more of this style of game before we worry about the term we use for it

>>377293018
I didn't actually, I keep forgetting it exists. I've heard that its decent too?

>>377293132
Yeah like a week after launch.
>>377293160
It's decent. Short but decent.

>>377293018
>>377293160
It's shit.
If you want good Master Blaster game play original.

>>377293316
>It's decent. Short but decent.
Decent enough to warrant the pricetag?

>>377293065
didn't he INVENT castlevania?

huh. so he's like inafune. another hack fraud.

>>377293368
I'd say so, it's not that expensive.
It's one of the best games on Switch right now, granted that's not saying much.

>>377292728
>caring about the engine
>thinking that has any bearing on the artstyle or quality of the game

>>377293402
>didn't he INVENT castlevania?
I dont think anyone, not even he himself, claims that.

>>377292598
>>377292598
>caring about the story in a castlevania

really? you kill dracula or satan or both.

that's it. that's all it ever is and will ever be.

>>377293402
>didn't he INVENT castlevania?

His first experience with Castlevania was when his girlfriend (later wife) showed it to him when they both worked at Konami. He thought it was cool, and after he got to pick his next project, he worked on the 32X Castlevania. Konami canned it since the 32X was shit, and production moved to the Playstation.

The actual devs of the first 3 Castlevania games are a total mystery. They left gaming in the early 90's and have never given any interviews. Not even Japan knows anything about them.

>>377293443
>shitstained isn't shit exactly because of the engine
>Unreal didn't have any bearing on the artstyle or quality of the game

>>377293490
then he's just some guy. who cares if he didn't invent the series.

>>377293490
>I dont think anyone, not even he himself, claims that.

"Iga-vania".

>>377293589
>fanname

File: lc2.jpg (66KB, 640x480px)

66KB, 640x480px

I'd like to thank anon who recommended Lecarde Chronicles 2 in some other Castlevania thread, it's pretty dope.

>>377290281
>specificially for the PS1, GBA, and NDS Casltevania games that play like metroid games
>Metroid babbies think this

I love Tan-sack games.

is tansaku the new kino?

File: red-goddess-inner-world-3.jpg (60KB, 740x416px)

60KB, 740x416px

>>377291885
>A game made by a handful of Spaniards with much less budget, also on UE4 looks better than this
You can't make this shit up

>>377292263
You are an absolute faggot if you think it's really easy to make a new engine from scratch and if you think that Unity and Unreal Engine 4 are shit engines and you should kill yourself.

Great game have been made on both, and you should really kill yourself.

>>377294054
>Great game have been made on both
Such as?

Also, go do your reps pajeet, your english is shit.

>>377294087
>4
not him but Unreal Tournament is pure ludo.
Its not their fault that no one else knows how to use their fantastic engine.

File: 1450002436695.jpg (6KB, 227x225px)

6KB, 227x225px

>>377289854
I like this idea. Let's try to enforce it

>>377289854
"Exploration" in a game usually refers to empty, shitty open worlds and the occasional walking sim.

Fucking nah.

>>377290394
Post wife.

>>377290928
>>377291084

It's in the alt third stage. It's not that long.

>>377291084
>I recommend Dracula X first though.
>The 2D version of Rondo is great.

I just played through all of DXC through stage 4, using a guide online to find the unlocks of SotN and 2D Rondo. As soon as I beat the stage 4 boss I started up 2D Rondo to see how different it is, and holy shit I stopped halfway through stage 1 to post here about how much fucking better it is. What the fuck were they thinking with that 3D trash?

>>377291736
>Procedural generation in a fucking metroidvania
Fuck off.

>>377290564
rude

>>377292728
its cheaper to texture models than getting artists who know how to use an "out-dated' medium

>>377293589
Specifically a term used to refer to his Castlevania games to differentiate them from the other ones.

>>377291736
>TFW worked on several metroidvania projects
>TFW all of them left
>TFW other fangames I was hyped about died as well
>TFW the only "game" that got released was a castlevania minecraft map.
Truly life is suffering.

File: fucking this.jpg (3KB, 126x122px)

3KB, 126x122px

>>377296009
Learn what metroidvania means, underage

>>377296220
Just because it technically qualifies as a metroidvania since you get items to open up new areas doesn't make the procedural generation any better. Metroidvania games as a genre thrive on their quality level design, something that is entirely absent in procedural games.

>>377296090

>his Castlevania

Little known answer you might not wanna hear. The amount of 2D metroidvanias directed by Igga from start to finish: 0. Symphony was only an Assistant Directoral role, as he finished the game half way through after Toru Haighara left. He is a PRODUCER and WRITER not a DIRECTOR. Its looks like might have been more on the business side of things during his time at Konami. He writes out a script, a general concept, hires some people, and they make the game.

>Castlevania:Symphony Of The Night - Toru Hagihara
>Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance - Takashi Takeda
>Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow - Junichi Murakami
>Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow - Satoshi Kushibuchi
>Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin - Satoshi Kushibuchi
>Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia -Akihiro Minakata

/v/ fell yet again for the businessman-Producer meme. That's why "his" games vary wildly in terms of quality. The one game he directed fully? The ps1 jrpg bomb "Elder Gate". yeah, that's "IGA's vision" all right.

>>377296009
>metroidvania
Castlevania is a creature of chaos.
I think well done pre-designed proc gen stuff would fit really well in a castlevania game.
Problem is that it requires both being good at level design and being good at proc gen without going for the lazy option, which is the likely outcome.

>>377296269
Pardon, I was unclear.
I meant to quote original faggot who was saying Dead Cells is metroidvania and your post.

basically I meant the opposite of what you thought

>>377296347
Good level design and procedural generation are mutually exclusive.

File: is this nigger serious.jpg (20KB, 720x404px)

20KB, 720x404px

>>377296271
>Using logic and clean objective facts on /v/
>instead of just shitposting

>>377296347
>Castlevania is a creature of chaos.
No it isn't you faggot.
Level design in castlevania is well-thought and polished upon.

You do not have nearly as much control over that in random generated dull bullshit.

File: I'm interested in this.png (300KB, 490x570px)

300KB, 490x570px

>>377291831
>the mock image of Super Metroid made by Nintendo vs. Super Metroid made by indies with bloom and lasers.

File: crashside720fc.png (1MB, 1280x720px)

1MB, 1280x720px

This is the only game maintaining my hope for the genre.

File: 1361836122207.jpg (50KB, 512x384px)

50KB, 512x384px

>tfw excited for Bloodstained

>>377296271
Where is Junichi Murakami now? How do we get this creative genius to make more games?

File: 2014savage_emu.jpg (215KB, 1433x854px)

215KB, 1433x854px

>>377296387
>Design good areas separately.
>Make these halls mix together and add some proc gen enemy replacer.
>Then make some levels without proc gen.
Voilá.
>>377296461
>No it isn't you faggot.
Yes it is, fuckboi. It's supposed to change overtime. It would be a nice touch to have SOME areas that actually do that, to add the mindfuckery feeling on it.

Metroidvania is the dumbest name for a genre there is, and will stick around for fucking ever now just because "that's how it is". I could make a game and pilfer every idea I wanted from Metroid, never play a single Castlevania in my life, and my game would still be called a Metroidvania, as if Castlevania has anything to do with any of the core design tenets of the games under this umbrella. "Metroidvania" is the "Souls-like" of a bygone era.

>>377296782
>Where is Junichi Murakami now?

I wonder what happened to the GBA-NDS devs. Konami shit canned their console game division. Only their mobile and Pachinko divisions remain. So maybe they work there?

>polygon

quit spamming your shitty blog faggot

>>377289854
just go to 2chan and everyone will be using it

>>377296923
What do you think about "roguelike" term?

>>377289854
>Tansaku

I do think the term Metroidvania is dated, and too much in the same vein as "doom clone". But Tansaku just sounds too weeb.

>>377297139

Shit term for double niggers.

File: 1383008070899.jpg (41KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 960x540px

>>377296841
>Voilá.
No, that's a shit idea, because it has the same shitty problems as every other shitty indie game with shitty procgen in it.
You design an area, that's the first step. You put enemies in it that will complement the area you just designed. Then you design the surrounding areas with new enemies to complement those areas and provide a different experience to the previous areas.
Randomising enemy placement just throws that whole concept out the fucking window; just picture Castlevania having the final guards in 4 block high rooms where you can just jump over or go under them instead of needing to fight them. Similarly, picture the enemies that throw flame on the ground in an area full of thin floating platforms. Different enemies do not work in different areas, Castlevania, especially back in classic, is all about careful placement of specific enemies in specific locations in specific orders in order to present a specific challenge that is interesting and entertaining to play through. Splitting the levels into random sterile chunks with random enemies just butchers the entire concept and turns the entire thing into a dull, lifeless mess.

File: 1324376688526.jpg (20KB, 221x217px)

20KB, 221x217px

>>377297016
>Taken from designing huge castles and enemies and cool new game systems and forced to make shallow gacha and pachinko systems

File: 1451511342932.jpg (118KB, 406x364px)

118KB, 406x364px

Should all weebs just be shot to death at this point?

>>377297317
You've got a point. One of the things I enjoyed the most about Jedi Knight2 is how everything was so well-put together.
Still, maybe some sort of proc-gen bonus area a la den of evil with a boss rush would be nice.

>>377297776
>Still, maybe some sort of proc-gen bonus area a la den of evil with a boss rush would be nice.
That's what Bloodstained is going to have. Unfortunately it's also what Bloodborne had and it was by far the worst part of Bloodborne.

>>377297145
Do you call people weebs if they talk about karaoke? Or sushi? Or food having an umami taste?

>>377292263
>Unity and Unreal are shit engines

here goes that meme again

File: IMG_20170511_002726.jpg (34KB, 800x800px)

34KB, 800x800px

I always just called then adventure platformers.

I mean they are all derivatives of games like Zelda 2 and Monster World

>>377289854
>Tansaku

This is the West. We speak American here.

File: giphy.gif (68KB, 500x500px)

68KB, 500x500px

>>377298579
>Zelda 2
muh nigga. Don't see why it gets all the hate. Even NOTZelda 2 is fun.

>>377289854
"Exploration platformers" is more descriptive, more specific, and much clearer for what you are talking about. And more importantly, if you are talking about some other aspect of SotN - such as the leveling stats or finding random equipment drops - then you really need to specify that rather than assuming "Metroidvania" or any other title automatically includes it.

File: hollow-knight.jpg (339KB, 1438x807px)

339KB, 1438x807px

>>377291764
Hollow Knight is already out, and it's the best metroidvania game I ever played. I feel sorry for Bloodstained

File: igablood.jpg (187KB, 578x341px)

187KB, 578x341px

>>377294017
that doesn't look better than Bloodstained, not even close.
Not even an IGAshill, I prefer classicvania.

Honestly, Bloodstained is looking better than what I saw last time. This looks pretty solid:
>>377291885

>>377293671
Is it a metroidvania or classicvania though?

File: C8imEsxXkAABbgD.jpg (127KB, 1200x450px)

127KB, 1200x450px

>>377299618
A cute game

>>377291885
What's wrong with this, besides "muh pixels!"? It looks exactly like every other igavania except 3D.

>>377299965
The colors don't stand out as well as they should to highlight which platforms are useable and which aren't.

Although if we are talking about /v/, it is because they want to shitpost on it and so they will point out anything to do so. I think it was the "it doesn't look perfectly like the concept artwork" or something similar.

>>377291831
it's not always red

>>377299507
>And more importantly, if you are talking about some other aspect of SotN - such as the leveling stats or finding random equipment drops - then you really need to specify that rather than assuming "Metroidvania" or any other title automatically includes it.
It does. That's the whole point of the term. It's called a Metroidvania because it combines elements of both. If there's no equipment or stats then it's not a Metroidvania, just a Metroid-like.

But I suppose shifting to an entirely new more catch-all term would be easier than getting people to use the existing terms properly.

>>377291885
I don't like the way camera jerks and how the model stands out. Other than that it looks good.

>>377291885
Seems fine. Needs inbetween frames on the jumping/moving animations, more work on the camera, shadows on the platforms and just generally more shit in it.

But nothing fundamentally broken or anything. Fine for a dumb dev diary demo thang. My only legit complaint is that the run cycle is fucking weak.

>>377291764
La-Mulana 2 is coming, anon

>>377299683
Wait a minute.

In the interview OP posted, IGA says:
>"Unfortunately, I'm good at making core experiences, so it was two years of making a game that leaned too 'hardcore' for the social market.
>my natural style is more akin to a hardcore game."

He says he makes hardcore games but then he says he hates precise jumps, and IGAvanias are generally pretty easy (compared to classicvania).

What gives? Is IGA being ironic?

>>377300192
>It does.
Then you have games like Hollow Knight, Ori and the Blind Forest, Zelda 2, Guacamelee, and Super Metroid which really do not fit the "Metroidvania" title at all... despite a large number of people clearly assuming that they do. Including a large number of people in this thread, who have assumed the above games are Metroidvanias despite not having random equipment drops, not having levels and stat progression, or missing some other big aspects.

It's why the term is unclear. You should probably just call them SotN-likes or encourage people to call the genre exploration platformers, when not specifically talking about games mimicking SotN.

File: 1443576773399.png (123KB, 274x443px)

123KB, 274x443px

>>377300521
Did you only read the first two words of my post?

pretty much everyone I know calls them metroidvanias. it's fun to say and makes sense considering the origin.

legit question OP. are you retarded? that is to say, mentally ill?

>>377300741
It actually don't make sense given the origin.

Metroidvania was originally coined as an insult against SotN by a fan of the classic games to bash the title for lacking the difficulty and tight linear level design of the earlier "Classicvania" titles.
(he conventionally ignored Castlevania 2 when making these comparisons)
The term was meant to only be applied to actual Castlevania series games that took elements from Metroid.
Metroid-like is actually a better genre label for the modern interpretation.

>>377301291
if anything stealing and twisting the meaning just makes it much better. noice noice noice.

metroidvania is just a mashup of metroid-like and castlevania-like in one while being 20X easier to say.

>>377290229
>deceivingly linear gaim

Why are there no Metroid-likes? What genera are they?

>>377301820
Technically, Metroid-likes are just Metroidvanias without RPG stat-levelling or the like, that just get called Metroidvania anyway.

Personally I like them more, I wouldn't say that stats really add anything.

>>377298030
Difference is those things were always known by their Japanese name.

No one in the west has ever called a Metroidvania a Tansaku before. And considering what Tansaku means, you might aswell just say Adventure Platformer.

>>377302058
>And considering what Tansaku means, you might aswell just say Adventure Platformer.
Considering what Metroidvania gets applied to, you might as well say Adventure Platformer.

>>377301983
Same, stats just seem to complicate things without adding anything compelling in my opinion.

>>377289854

I'll stick with Metroidvania, thanks. Tansaku means fuck all to anyone who doesn't speak runes, idiot.

>>377300494
That's just a bad meme. When you are able to die in just a few hits like in the classics some of the games have unforgiving enemy placement. Try playing PoR or OoE on Hard.

>>377300494

He means traditional games, idiot. When Konami relegated him to mobile shit, he kept making games that were too close to console gaming, therefore too "hardcore" for the retarded mobile crowd, which is why he got his projects cancelled.

>>377300494
Hardcore =/= precise jumping requirements. And I agree that shit is annoying. Igavanias are not platformers, they never was. I'd argue the same for CV as a whole.

What he meant by hardcore though, is anybodies guess. Maybe the word he was looking for is niche, since games like this aren't usually the kind to go mainstream in this age.

>>377289854
This is what I'm using from now on. "Metroidvania" pisses me off to no end.

>>377300494

If you're saying that playing lvl1 hard mode in his metroidvanias don't require precise gameplay, you're just outing yourself as dumbfuck shitposter.

File: gonehome_titlescreen.png (308KB, 640x360px) Image search: [Google]

308KB, 640x360px

>>377289854
>exploration games

I really like these tansaku (exploration) games. It really reminds me of Symphony of the Night.

>>377302408
Didn't Super Bunnyhop basically say something like this? He definitely compared it to Resident Evil.

>>377302408
Technically a "Immersive Sim" like Deus Ex.

>>377289854
>"my game is a metroidvania"
>everybody knows what it is

>"my game is an exploration game"
>is it like GTA?
>is it like gone home?
>is it like the walking dead?
>is it like portal?
>is it like the darkness?
>is it like omikron?
>is it like anachronox?
>i du knot undastandu

>>377302743
Going by people calling things like Cave Story a metroidvania, it's not as flawless of a description as you are assuming.

>>377302743
>is it like anachronox
I swear I hear about this fucking game once a fortnite.

>>377302236
>>377302345
t. triggered casualvania kids

>>377302950
There are always going to be exceptions to the rule where people stretch the definition to include unrelated games, but metroidvania is a pretty concise name that immediately provides a mental image for what a game is like. An "exploration" game does not. The term is too abstract and broad.

>>377302985
Fortnite is a game, you mean fortnight.

>>377303285
Whatever happened to it, anyway?

>>377303405
To be released in 2017, I'm sure they'll showcase something during E3.

File: Untitled.png (446KB, 972x530px)

446KB, 972x530px

>>377303186
>exceptions to the rule where people stretch the definition
Cave Story is pretty typically considered a Metroidvania. It's not exactly much of an exception if that is how everybody uses the term.

"Exploration" is vague (or more accurately, too broad) but "exploration platformer" does give most people a good idea of what to expect, even if it doesn't specify the equipment and stats part.

>>377299172
Go play Super Adventure Island 2 if you haven't already. Probably my favorite of the Zelda 2 clones.

Can we stop using the term "car"? I mean it perfectly identifies and categorizes a certain object, but it's so OVER USED and I'm BORED of it.

Metroidvania is the game, where you explore some areas (and can later backtrack into this areas during free exploring), level yourself up with numbers/upgrades/equipment, fight bosses in the end/center/hidden place of the area to get access to different areas either through walking past defeated bosses or obtaining items, which would allow you to access previously unaccessible areas. Ultimate goal is to reach and kill final boss. Metroidvanias in it's default state is 2d (horisontal + vertical axis) and have elements of platforming. Battle and movement parts of gameplay are directly taken from action platformers like nonmetroidvania Castlevania and Contra from NES with some additions such as movement upgrades (double jump/dash) and battle upgrades (special moves/charge attack etc).
There is possibility of existance of 3d versions, but they would also be part zeldoids and, sometimes, part slashers, so it would not be pure metroidvanias.
So Castlevania Curse of Darkness/Lament of Innocense is not pure metroidvanias. Dark Sould are not pure one, Ori IS metroidvania. Cave Story is metroidvania too. Gone Home, ofc, not. GTA, Walking Dead and other things is not.

>>377303636
what is the point of this argument? What is the point of this post? Literally brings nothing to the conversation.

Low-effort as fuck

>>377289854

>Metroid-vania is over used

And what are we gonna do once your shitty idea becomes over-used?

>>377303636
"Auto" is the general term. "Car" clearly means a commercial automotive vehicle, enclosed, with the design of transporting a few passangers. It's fairly clear when somebody means a car compared to a truck, motorcycle, tractor, or other types of autos. People generally using "car" to refer to all automobiles is somewhat common, but it generates enough confusion that it is clear there is a distinct understanding of what a car is and what it isn't.

>>377303603
But it's not. Where is all the backtracking, non linearity, and ability or item based progression?

Cave Story is just a platformer/side scrolling shooter.

>>377303796
The point of this argument is that there's already a term for that games, there's no clearer term at the current time and most people, who use that term are okay with using existing term. Also changing existing one will bring only chaos into conversation, because only that single tard, who started to use new term would know, what that term means, which would make conversation less clear, than conversation using old term. So instead of clarifying everything entering new term will do exactly opposite.

>>377303603

In most platformers, there is an aspect of exploration. It would again be quite broad. Metroidvania works just fine to convey a game has

>platforming
>a large world to explore with many locked off areas
>different equipment to find which unlock moves allowing you to reach previously locked off areas

This of course immediately boots out Zelda games and Souls games by virtua of not being platformers but which some people still insist on calling Metroidvanias,

>>377304129
>Where is all the backtracking
There is.
>non linearity
Is not a part of metroidvania by default.
> and ability or item based progression
There are upgrades and you need not to change your machinegun and upgrade it to max to reach either best ending or hell temple, don't remember now, which one of them.

>>377303823
ahahaha

>>377304129
>all the backtracking
Once you get back from the labyrinth, you return to the starting area and it's up to you to figure out where you should be going next. Plus, the content past that point generally requires you to wander back or figure out what you need to do.

>non linearity
It's about as non-linear as Super Metroid or most GBA Castlevanias. Or do you really think that you could just wander around freely in those games as well, rather than follow a set path to get the required power ups?

>item based progression
Are you serious?

Although it hardly matters. If nearly everybody uses Metroidvania to describe games like Cave Story, then that means the term Metroidvania applies to games like Cave Story. It doesn't matter how you use the term. Which is part of the problem: the term is being used by different people to mean different things, which makes it a very bad term to define a genre.

Tansaku sounds weeb as fuck. There is literally nothing wrong with the term Metroidvania.

>>377304534
People use FPS to describe Gears of War, Max Payne, Portal, the Myst games, and many more. That doesn't make them right or FPS a bad term to define a genre.

>>377304584
If you remember, both Castlevania and Metroid are games createn in Japan. So there's literally nothing wrong with using weeb term.
I'm against changing term, but not because it's weeb, but because no one need to chane it.

>>377304270
>In most platformers, there is an aspect of exploration.
Mario, Rayman, Contra, Mega Man, Castlevania (the first game), Ninja Gaiden, Donkey Kong Country, and a number of other platformers do not have much exploration. Most don't have any exploration, and the ones that do generally only have "exploring" at occasional alternate routes through a stage or the somewhat off-screen collectable. It would be very strange to say that platformers in general all have an aspect of exploration.

>>377304724
Metroidvania is much easier to explain than Tansaku to the uninitiated.

>>377304652
>People use FPS to describe Gears of War, Max Payne
These are clearly Third Person Shooters, not First Person Shooters, and can clearly be made distinct due to the term used.

>Portal
Portal is a FPS, though. It's more of a first-person puzzle game, mind you, but "FPS" would at least describe the control scheme.

>the Myst games
Hardly anybody talks about Myst as a FPS outside people completely ignorant to what Adventure games are, or intentional trolls. I don't think I've ever seen anyone talk about Monkey Island as an adventure game and then refer to Myst as a FPS outside trying to be insulting.

TL Note: Tansaku means exploration

>>377304771
In most platformers, you can explore levels to find all sorts of collectibles to 100% the games. The term exploration is far to vague to use as a defining criteria for a genre, let alone a subgenre like metroidvania that needs harsh criteria to distinguish itself from all the other subgenres.

>>377304836
That's why no matter if new term is tansaku, or castle killer, or zamkobrodilka or any word form any other language. We already got term for that and there's no need to make new one. Like with danmaku,

>>377299618
There won't be a successor to SotN until a game like Hollow Knight also has an amazing, perfectly choreographed soundtrack like SotN. These games often have shitty generic music.

I am going to make a 2D tansaku thread when I get back home.

>>377289854
I use "Castleroid"

File: nice.jpg (113KB, 500x500px)

113KB, 500x500px

>>377305983

>>377304969
>danmaku,

I'm sorry, did you mean Shoot 'em ups?

>>377306215
See, what i mean? (Therefore you catch me there, danmaku is subgenre of shoot'em up. Someone call danmaku "bullet hell", but bh comes later so it's something like this "tansaku")

File: 20170404_154714.jpg (3MB, 5312x2988px)

3MB, 5312x2988px

>>377290928
Dracula x is a great game. I just replayed both drac x and sotn on vita. Psp version. Fucking excellent.

Dracula x is a much harder game than sotn.

You dont have to beat drac x to get sotn... there is a bubble icon item in game you find to unlock it about halfway through.

2d tansaku sounds kino as fuck so we should that instead of metroidvania which sounds retarded as all hell.

>>377306560
This.
We could even describe Metroid Prime more accurately by calling it a 3D tansaku instead of FPS

>>377293065
He is certainly /myguy/ he wants to make big budget 2d metroidvania games....so fuck yes...

Also he will tweet you back, at least he has to me.

>>377293531
That mystery is ominous unto itself.....

Metroidvania never made sense in the first place, considering Metroid was rebooted as a Halo clone after Super Metroid

>>377303405
It's been in closed alpha for, like, 5 years or so. It's probably manned by a skeleton crew because it very, very rarely gets updates.

I only got in recently, but the current patch is kinda fucked and everyone hates it, so I can't really comment on how the game is. The core is fun, at least.

>>377306560
> 2d tansaku
doesn't make sense. And is not a term for something new, but a term for exactly same what metroidvania stands for. Since it doesn't introduce anything new and there's already word for that, this new term is redundant.

>>377294017
No. That just looks like guacamelee.

Although I like guac...it isnt the same art style to compare at all.

>>377289854
How about just Metroid-style? There's no reason to call it a "metroid-vania". Metroid did it before Castlevania.

>>377307827
Incorrect.
There was little different in time between SMetroid and Castlevania 2 releases.

>>377307827
metroidvanias usually don't use the metroid conventions but the way SOTN elaborated upon them, thus the denomination.

>>377307827
>>377307941
Also, I will tell you more - neither SuperMetroid not Castle2 are actual metroidvania.

If you try to re-read definition "metroidvania" applying some intellectual work you will understand why.

if you still have issues I can use american cheesburger to explain it. Your education is american too, right? So it fits. Should be simple to grasp.

>>377307827
Most of Metroidvania are melee-oriented, so there's more of Castlevania, than Metroid in them.

>>377308034
>Most of Metroidvania are melee-oriented
>Metroidvania
>melee-oriented,

Absolutely irrelevant aspect that has nothing with metroidvania genre nor plays any role it the definition

>>377308264
Compmetely relevant, since gameplay parts, enemies and bosses in metroid made for rangedoriented gameplay, and same parts in castlevania and most of metroidvanias are for melee.

>>377296841
>Design good areas separately.
That's by far the worst way to deal with random generation, even though it's also very common among indie devs.

>>377307941
>1 year difference
>little difference

That's a significant amount of time, but I understand where you're coming from - they were in development probably at about the same time

>>377308456
No it isn't.
There are alot of metroidvania games that focused only on ranged weapons, like Environment Station Alpha and it is still metroidvania because it meets all the crieria SoTN established for the genre (and the latter used Metroid and Castlevania2 as a base for that)

>>377308031
>SuperMetroid

Who said anything about Super Metroid? Your reading comprehension is terrible. Try again, but this time perhaps without your 3rd world education.

>>377308549
>1 year
what

SUPER METROID
Platform(s) Super NES
Release
JP: March 19, 1994
NA: April 18, 1994
PAL: July 28, 1994

CASTLEVANIA 2 SIMONS QUEST

Platform(s) Family Computer Disk System
Nintendo Entertainment System
Microsoft Windows
Release
August 28, 1987

>>377305053

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABXga9y0B3I

I love the OST, anything but generic

>>377308570
> There are alot of metroidvania games that focused only on ranged weapons
I never said there's no or there's small amount of ranged-oriented. I only said that there are MORE melee-oriented than ranged-oriented.

I always preferred the term "metroid-esque"

>>377308634
Then... I don't understand?

What relevance, other linear as fuck metroid games, have here?

Someone tell me if Ori is good or not I asked this shit hours ago!! I need your opinions!!!

>>377308774
So you are backpedaling now?
You said that mele-oriented gameplay is one pf the important aspects that defines genre.

I proved you wrong. And pointed out this spoken aspect never ever was relevant to the genre definition.

>>377308893
It's most important cause there's more games in melee. I proved you wrong.

>>377308490
>That's by far the worst way to deal with random generation, even though it's also very common among indie devs.
Why? I can see that happening in a terraria-like game with proc gen dungeons. Just make the proc-gen not retarded. Dwarf fortress comes to my head.

>>377308889
It is.

But go watch a gameplay video or something to make up your own mind before you commit.

Metroidvania it is

>>377308978
>there are more football/soccer games than games of X genre
>therefore football/soccer game are more important

what

>>377308889
it is good but not real metroidvania.

I.E. if you expect SoTn or Hollow Knight prepare to be disappointed.

If all you want fun cute platformer with some VERY optional backtracking - sure. Go ahead, it is great

>>377309106
I assume that guy was referring to the whole "make a bunch of hand-made levels then place them randomly connected to each other" e.g. rogue legacy, ziggurat, BoI.
That shit trash since you are bound to encounter the same level again and again.
Proper procedural generation is what you get in [actual] roguelikes, which can be hit or miss for a lot of reasons.

>>377308889
It's mediocre. Very easy.

why is it called metroidvania when metroid did everything better?

>>377309991
Metroid never did.

Super Metroid attempted to but it was released ages after Castlevania 2.

Original Metroid games before that and original Castlevanai games were linear as fuck

>>377289854
Would that make Terraria and Starbound Tansaku games?

File: 1490630375968.jpg (34KB, 349x349px)

34KB, 349x349px

>>377291885

>five month old test game play

>>377310345
Isn't Terraria open-world? That's the opposite of classic 2D tansaku games.

File: Doom2_wally.jpg (598KB, 1250x1515px) Image search: [Google]

598KB, 1250x1515px

>>377290229
The problem with calling FPS games for Doom clones, is that in the post doom world, all FPS was doom clones for about 4-5 years.
So with the release of Quake and the competing Unreal, eventually First Person Shooter became a thing, and basically superseeded the subgenre.

File: confused shambler.gif (91KB, 640x480px)

91KB, 640x480px

>>377311223
But both Quake and Unreal uses the same design principles as Doom, so what made people use the term "First Person Shooter" then? Besides, I recall the term was popularized once Half Life came around because of its immersion and setpieces.

Then again, I believe such an event happening to the metroid-like genre already happened when SotN was released, because while using Metroid's core design they did something different with RPG stats, but instead of using a neutral term like FPS, they instead used the mixing of two game titles. which is the problem.

So, what would make people change the naming of the genre? Someone coming with the usual metroid-like game and saying "my game is a [term], aka a metroidvania"?

>>377312447
I still remember when people also called it 'Castletroid.'

>>377312447
>SotN was released, because while using Metroid's core design

They didnt though.
Devs confirmed they used Simon's Quest as a base and inspiration

So it was C2 at its core

>>377313048
They might have also said they were inspired by Zelda II. I can actually see that.

File: autism.gif (537KB, 480x270px)

537KB, 480x270px

>>377313396
>They might have also said t
>assuming things and basing conclusions and argument on assumptions

>>377313498
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-03-21-koji-igarashi-says-castlevania-sotn-was-inspired-by-zelda-not-metroid

>>377289854
For Iga-san, I'll do it.

How about Exploration Platforming Games/EPGs?

>>377313549
But it wasnt at core design, isn't?
Core design was based on Castle2.

>>377313737
When making SOTN they internally called it '2D Exploration Action Game'

Exploration Action isn't too bad actually.

>>377289854
Out of curiosity, how old are you OP? 12 or 13?

>>377313919
Exploration action is a bit vague i think, like without the 2D bit that could apply to skyrim

>>377289854
No, but you might be able to get them to be described as Exploration games. Dumb weebposter.

>>377293018
>not playing it on 3ds

>>377289854
"Metroidvania" was originally a term to describe Castlevania games that were designed like Super Metroid (SotN and onward), but then the term became a genre-definer and then Igavania instead became what defined the Metroid-esque Castlevania games. The term Metroidvania is a bit of its own beast at this point, you really can't undo the influence the term has now since it's technically evolved into its own genre, but good luck trying to push the "tansaku" genre anyway.

>>377289854
>You will never save Castlevania.
feelds bad

>>377314932
completely incorrect

Metroidvania is defined by having Castlevania combat with RPG progression and Super Metroid exploration and world progression. 99% of the games on Steam with the Metroidvania tag are incorrectly labeled, as they're all missing the actual "vania" elements. Metroid and Super Metroid are not Metroidvania games.

>>377315125
I know, SOTN was my favorite game really. I know it sounds cliche for some, but I honestly cannot say I have a played a game that had such a great adventuring atmosphere with the best music I ever heard,visual to complete and a overall atmosphere that many have tried to replicate and few succeeded.

You better start working on your game anon, we are in a dire position, the game market will actually implode because of the abundance of cheap but low quality games.

>>377315285
Prove it.

The reason japs dislike metroid and castlevania is because they didn't create shit, they just stole the concept of metroidvania from far superior japanese games like Maze of Galious 2.

Calling this genre Metroidvania is sort of like calling the SHMUP genre Zelda Theft Auto because they have so much to do with Gradius

>>377315572
I'd join a project at this point. Can't really be a one-man-army

>>377289854

Best Metroidvania: Order of Ecclesia

Best Classicvania: Adventure Rebirth

Best 3Dvania: Curse of Darkness

Best Dracula: Portrait of Ruin

Best Vampire: Orlox

Best Legion: Adria of Sorrow

Best Werewolf: Portrait of Ruin

Best Medusa: Portrait of Ruin

Best Frankenstein: Bloodlines.

Best Carmilla: Circle of the Moon

Best Belmont: Julius Belmont

Best Morris: Jonathan Morris

Best Belnades: Yoko Belnades

>>377315701
>"Metroidvania" was originally a term to describe Castlevania games that were designed like Super Metroid
Castlevania games never was nor needed to be designed like Super Metroid. Long before SM existed Castlevania series already had unique child Castlevania II: Simon's Quest that unlike all other Castletitles had freedom of exploration to some deegree. No other Castlevania or basic metroid games had similar approach before.

Years later, Super Metroid did similar but improved on some aspects.

Still, none of these 2 were proper metroidvanias. So in 97 finally SoTN was released, that incorporated both best core-aspects of both games. It was the first game to define metroidvania.

That being said, strictly speaking Simon's Quest was the first before Super Metroid therefore whole expression I've quoted is logically incorrect.

It is also confirmed that SoTN was made after SQ in mind and it even follow the same events.

The only reason "metroidvania" has "metroid" in it is probably to avoid pissing off too much metroid-fags because nintendocucks are obnoxious as fuck.

File: 46294bc4eb15b31c8ac9ca6bdf63b85b_original.jpg (153KB, 680x434px)

153KB, 680x434px

>Release date: 2015

Haven't even started playing yet and I'm already mad over getting fed bullshit information

>>377315285
Except it's absolutely correct. Metroidvania was originally to describe the Castlevania games like SotN, then people started saying "Igavania" since he had a hand in all of those games and it was describing the same CV games as before. If you say Metroidvania now, people think of the "genre" instead of "Castlevanias that use the Super Metroid exploration design", and now people call them Igavanias instead because Metroidvania has become too broad of a term.

File: a0907743342_16.jpg (49KB, 700x700px)

49KB, 700x700px

>>377315572
>but I honestly cannot say I have a played a game that had such a great adventuring atmosphere with the best music I ever heard,visual to complete and a overall atmosphere that many have tried to replicate and few succeeded.

Hi

File: hqdefault.jpg (25KB, 480x360px)

25KB, 480x360px

>>377316105
>It was the first game to define metroidvania.

Not even remotely true. Dumbass.

>>377316185
>Metroidvania was originally to describe the Castlevania games like SotN

Yes, I never argued with that. SoTN is indeed first and still ethalon example.

That is not what he said ,though. Re-read his nonsense

>>377316207
Faxanadu did it first, in the PC98

>>377316207
It is though.
The game you've posted isn't proper metroidvania.

With the same success you can say Ori is metroidvania.

>>377316005
>Best Metroidvania:
Circle
>Best Classicvania:
I or III
>Best 3Dvania:
Curse of Darkness
>Best Dracula:
Serio's Castlevania
>Best Vampire:
Motherfucking Walter
>Best Legion:
Aria of Sorrow
>Best Werewolf:
Portrait of Ruin
>Best Medusa:
Portrait of Ruin
>Best Frankenstein:
Bloodlines.
>Best Carmilla:
Circle of the Moon
>Best Belmont:
Julius Belmont
>Best Morris:
Jonathan Morris
>Best Belnades:
Yoko Belnades

>>377316105
>Castlevania games never was nor needed to be designed like Super Metroid. Long before SM existed Castlevania series already had unique child Castlevania II: Simon's Quest that unlike all other Castletitles had freedom of exploration to some deegree. No other Castlevania or basic metroid games had similar approach before.
>basic metroid games
What? The originator of the Metroid style gameplay, that was released a whole year before Castlevania 2 poorly ripped it off, is just brushed off as "basic metroid game".

>>377317635
original Metroid wasn't even close to exploration adventure.

You clearly never played it and probably only seen video-walkthrough of Super Metroid.

Go and play original game, underage.

>and he tries to argue with me

File: CNoACeEWgAARF0-.png (283KB, 600x465px)

283KB, 600x465px

>>377317747
>original Metroid wasn't even close to exploration adventure.

How dare you reply to me with your retarded argument.

>>377317874
http://emu-russia.net/ru/dl_roms/nes/49bcdcafc3f06dd5fed3df74ece59eec/Metroid.7z

http://www.fceux.com/web/home.html

Play it now little dumb shit.

>t. post-200 kid

>>377317874
He is right you know. Castlevania was linear.

>>377318061
>ru

Your b8 isn't clever enough, suka. I've also already played Metroid before you were born. Why don't you try playing the original Metroid instead? Maybe you'll realise how wrong you are then. If not, nobody can help you.

2D action/adventure where mobility upgrades double as progression keys

It's pretty specific, and Metroid and Castlevania are the few series that have done it (up until everyone copied them). Metroidvania is already widespread adoption so why would you want to change it?

>>377290229
>it's attached to the name of two titles, like still calling FPSes "Doom-clones"
Rogue-like ring a bell?

>>377302743

>my game is a side scrolling exploration game
>everyone knows what it is
>my game is a top down exploration game
>everyone knows what it is

>>377291885
what's the problem here? It looks fine.

They're explorable platformers.

>>377292263
t.nodev