Explain to me how Persona 5 has poor writing. I've seen

>>377212372
>Expecting an explanation for irrational contrarianism
"Bad writing" is just a buzzword people use so they don't have to actually explain why they don't like something.

The stigma about video games having bad writing has seemed to confuse people into thinking that literally any novel writer is a genius and therefore proof isn't needed if you say "read a book instead"

>>377212372
Repetitiveness
Repetitiveness
Repetitiveness
Repetiveness
Dialogue is cringey
Repetitiveness
Repetitiveness
More exposition through text messages
Repetitiveness

>>377212579
/threads

>>377212372
I don't know if is bad writting but something is off after Madarame

Also Akechi plotwist was pretty obvious

>>377212372
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-05-17-persona-5s-translation-is-a-black-mark-on-a-brilliant-game

MegeTen games in general don't have amazing writing, but people overblow it. P5 doesn't have the greatest writing if all time, but it's perfectly good for what it is and it is so for most of its duration, with the exception of the odd hiccup.

>muh effin rotten adults dammit, for real?
>I AM EVIL, I'M SO EVIL I WILL EXPLAIN HOW EVIL I AM EVERY TIME I SEE YOU
>Yes, the plan is proceeding according to plan, mister FUTURE PRESIDENT
>foreshadowing for events happens literally days before event takes place, Futaba's palace being the worst offender

Also, translation is horribly literal at times, like it didn't go through editors. I don't remember the exact phrasing, but there's a sentence in the late parts of the game that goes like this: "Usually I'm not into politics, but this politician sure seems better than other politicians". Also, most social links are very repetitive and naive.

>>377212372
most of the villains are irredeemably evil and in today's climate of subversive and edgy narratives where it's all about shades of grey and pseudointellectual moral relativism, clear good and evil sides to the conflict is seen as """"bad writing""" by fedora tippers

I blame Game of Thrones

Look, if you can watch Akechi's reveal scene and mental breakdown followed by the gang's reaction and say "Yup, that's good writing right there" then more power to you.

But the vast majority of people will see that it's shit.

The dialogue also needed editing, and the episodic nature of each palace don't come together to make a consistently engaging story. The ending is full of typical SMT fight-god-with-the-power-of-friendship Saturday morning cartoon cliches.

>>377212372
Every part of the Kaneshiro arc was stupid, contrived, and filled with logic holes. The game had to bend over backwards to accommodate the idea of every palace having a deadline, so it pulled out a nonsensical doujin blackmail cliche. Of course that's just logic flaws, the real problem is that it's supposed to be Makoto's character arc, who they repeatedly establish as a fuck-up who makes the same mistakes over and over. But they don't do anything to complete that arc, so she just changes on a dime with her Persona without actually learning anything. She rives the arc along by throwing a tantrum, and immediately afterwards she's supposed to be the level-headed one.

I'm not going to nitpick the scenario writing itself, but the dialogue writing is very poor. The game is littered with dialogue that is boring, uninteresting, and lame. They repeat the same lines over and over again, and 90% of the crap they say offers no useful insight into the situation or the characters themselves.

Compare that to a game like Trails in the Sky, which has more dialogue, but also more INTERESTING dialogue. The personality of each character is reflected well within the dialogue itself, and the characters engage in meaningful banter that makes it all more fun to read. Relationships are fleshed out through the dialogue, and it is easy to come to appreciate what they all bring to the table.

Persona 5 doesn't do any of that. Often, you find yourself simply reading the same dialogue over and over again, sometimes with minor differences.

>>377212372
My major problem when I was playing Persona 5 is that no one talked like a human, and it seemed like it was mostly a shitty translation's fault. Everything was way too literal, like they actual crunched the script through Google translate, then edited it from there to sound like "English". I hardly ever felt any emotional connection with any of the characters, or had the feeling like any of them even gave a shit they were in the game past Kamoshida.

It's about stealing hearts from mean adults.

Literally the plot of a magical girl anime for 5 year old girls. Now if the target audience is 5 year old girls, then the writing is fine, if not, it sucks.

>>377213308
EFF YOU

>>377213308
>from mean adults

*criminals

>>377212579
>>377212689
>>377212785
>Immediately jumping on "It's just a meme the end!" instead of putting any thought into the question.

Nice.

The writing IS pretty bad in many respects, though. The biggest problem is that characters lack agency and have no interpersonal relations. Your party members only influence events when the game has specifically set aside a chunk of time where this one character matters or when you give them specific directions in combat. As a result the events are extremely predictable and everyone else looks retarded as they stand around doing nothing. Each character also fills a niche, usually recycled from P4 with a few scrambled elements, but doesn't have their own social connections aside from a small number like Ryuji/Ann and Yusuke/Futaba. Every character regards the others as "[way every character treats this character] + [my quirks]." They don't read as a group of friends very well because no body particularly likes or dislikes any of the members more than the others or has any kind of individual, if minor, relationship with them.

This isn't getting to the fact that the game has the same narrative structure as P4 or how flippant it is with its own themes.

>>377213398
>*criminals

*one dimensional bad guys who are mean to move the plot along, or people that did nothing wrong

>>377212372
You have to realize that most people on /v/ don't really know much about writing. You need to spend years in school before your opinion is worth anything, and most high school English classes actually teach people how to write badly.

Case in point: >>377213440

>>377213542
Do you really think people in real life aren't one-dimensional?

>>377213734
Yes.

The twist when Akechi shoots Joker but it's actually the metaverse version of Joker is fucking awesome. I thought I had gotten a bad ending.

YAKISOBA PAN

I just think it's a bit repetetive

I disliked that it was all part of a plan rather than have individual incidents lead to bigger take downs. Tying Madarame in to Shido was an asspull.

The way Goro was handled was also at the very least poor. Futaba and Haru had no reason to forgive him in the slightest, yet they were all crying at his sacrifice.

Also Morgana coming back at the end felt like too much of a feel good, nothing lost victory.

>>377212372
most of the villains are irredeemably evil and in today's climate of subversive and edgy narratives where it's all about shades of grey and pseudointellectual moral relativism, clear good and evil sides to the conflict is seen as """"bad writing""" by fedora tippers

I blame Game of Thrones

>>377213168
This completely, Akechi's confrontation was pure trash. He even had the shounen for 6 year old boys I DONT NEED NAKAMA lines

Also Shido's plan doesn't make any sense at all, "ah yes I have a magical assassination weapon and there is zero possible chance anyone besides these new Phantom thieves can figure out it's me or stop me from achieving my goal"
"Let's go the whole subvert the populace route even though it does nothing to stop the phantom thieves at all and only tips them off about my existence". His plan falls apart if they don't run into Haru or if Futaba can't Mary Sue hack Medjed

>>377213151
It's a problem because the heroes are doing things that are morally gray and the game acknowledges this, but it does nothing interesting with it and goes out of its way to set up straw man antagonists to make the party look better.

The game is trying to be "edgier" and "smarter" than P4 but just looks stupid in the process. There wouldn't be a need to bunch if they did something simpler with less messy execution.

Akechi was shit
The game treated the players like idiots constantly explaining unnecessary shit that was obvious to the player. They had to explain the akechi ruse 3 damn times. Characters literally are irrelevant after their arcs besides squid and makoto.

Worst of them all is you stopped making plans with members how to steal the treasure after 2nd dungeon, like fuck the premise and appeal right?

>>377214023
fuck off, retard

>>377213731
I can't tell if you're saying that poster is retarded or that they understand basic writing.

>>377213151
Brainwashing is a morally grey subject

All of the Confidants are the exact same. I haven't completely Iwai's yet but I Tora's Confidant was the only one I finished that wasn't.

>Getting to know the person Rank 1-4
>Introduction of comically evil person oppressing them or someone they love Rank 5-6
>Mementos trip Rank 7-8
>The confidant being shocked that the person that's doing the oppressing had a "change of heart" rank 8-9 along with a romance option if they're female
>Complete fluff Rank 10.

I don't understand how people say this game had the best social links, they're garbage. You don't even help the person through their issue like every other game did, every single one is the protagonist fixing their problem for them because he's magic.

>>377213968
How was Madarame profiting from Shido an asspull?
And Haru and Futaba literally did not say they forgave Akechi.

>last 3 dungeons don't even have IRL versions of safe rooms
>hall of justice and Diet have casino hotel rooms for some reason
5 years!

>>377214308
Welcome to Persona, where the social links are bland and nothing happens, but with the illusion of something more grand since it's spread over 10's of hours of gameplay for a single one.

>>377214024
Both the Medjed hack and the Okumura incident were both planned to fail though. If the Phantom Thieves messed up,it wouldn't have changed how things proceeded

>>377213968
>>377214348
I don't know if asspull is the right word, but it didn't really feel necessary to do. Especially since they didn't even go all the way and connect the entire cast to Shido. Ann and Ryuji still had no type of connection or beef with him after they tied Madarame in to him.

>>377214382
No but you don't understand, they're actually worse than previous games. 90% of the social links in these games are THE EXACT SAME SCENARIO.

>>377214395
If medjed stops with no direct pt interference that is highly suspect, if Okumura randomly dies with no pt interference immediately tipped off rather than a week of moping around

Why not FUCKING KILL THEM, you already convinced the public that Okumura was behind the shutdowns

>>377214348
>And Haru and Futaba literally did not say they forgave Akechi.

Yet they felt sorry for him and actually did not say " fuck that" when akechi was asked to join them.

They should have been way more pissed their family members died for such a pathetic reason

>>377214308
The mementos/social link blend was a mistake.

>>377214348
>say they do not forgive Akechi
Yeah practically with tears in their eyes, they basically deflect everything to Shido

Which is horseshit since Akechi approaches Shido to begin with

>>377214482
That's because there's only three male S. Links that aren't automatic/party/sidequests, they decided the main shops needed links, and all the girls are wives. Tora and GET SMOKED are literally the only P3 style S Links.

>>377214540
>Why not FUCKING KILL THEM
Because it's a game.

I'm not shitposting, that's how Persona 5 explains it

>Why is using the Phantom Thieves even necessary? The game makes it clear that Shido is the only actual choice right when he gets introduced.
It's a game

>It's Mitsuru and Naoto's job to investigate and do something about things like these isn't it? Why weren't they present?
It's a game

>Why weren't the PT caught by anyone else? They did a shitty job of hiding it. After sending Shido's calling card they went to school the following days!
It's a game.

>>377214619
Shinya's social link follows that formula. The only social link that didn't that I've played is Tora. I don't know if Iwai's is different.

>>377213731
Case in point how? It's true; the party members don't have nuance outside of their relationship with Joker.

>>377213130
>Finish Futuba's palace
>She sleeps for fucking weeks
I hated that shit.

>>377214540
But that's why they faked the like 95% Phantom Thief poll. So if Okumura dropped dead, they could just assume it was them. Same with Medjed, the public 'war' announcement was enough to tie them to Phantom Thieves without any actual PT activity

>>377214751
Iwai's is the same as the others.

>>377214751
I'd argue Shinya is more of a P3 link with a quest tacked on because everyone else has one aside from No Good Tora.

>>377214901
Well that's too bad.

The prosecutor figures shit out only because the writer knows it and not because she could logically deduce it from what she's being told. The way the phantom thieves predicted Akechi's exact movements is implausible. The dialogue explains shit exhaustively that the player has already figured out. The whole moral of the story is "hurrrrr adultz r bad". Too many instances of pure coincidence or deus ex machina.

I could go on. The script is par for the course for Japan, but it's pure shit.

>>377215020
Yusuke didn't have a quest, did he?

>>377214891
That doesn't explain why public subversion that alerts the only people who could possibly stop you is preferable to eliminating them
>>377214751
Not an argument

>>377212372
It's got a pretty run-of-the-mill story about rebellion but it abides by the rule of cool pretty well so I think it's fine.

>>377215147
No, but he did have a compulsory battle or two.

>hahaha, we're so fucking evil fuck you phantom thieves
>guitar riff starts playing
>Bonafide Monafide!
>revelation upbeat music sstarts playing
>oh no, I was so bad, forgive me I'll be better
>repeat
I didn't care for even one boss in the game, mementos especially are laughable.

>>377215020
Hifumi could've been a normal slink but some reason she refuses to develop and we change her mom's heart for nothing

Atleast shinya is a kid, and he still directly took part in it

>>377214023
Game of Thrones has ruined people. Look at everyone in threads for Better Call Saul expecting everyone to fucking die or every plot to end in some bland betrayal.

>>377215190
I'm not arguing that it's good, if that's what you're thinking. It's literally how the game explains everything. Nothing in the game is actually necessary if Shido actually tried to uncover the Phantom Thieves he could have but he doesn't because it's a game.

It's a game between Igor and Yaldy, so everyone that happened was done under the influence of Yaldy. Yaldy can't have the PT get caught or get killed, so they don't.

>>377214023
or every character in the game, good or bad, is incredibly one dimensional.

>muh rebel bad boy
>muh hot stupid chick
>muh ideal student who wants to live up to expectations
>muh artist
>muh nerdy awkward girl
>muh benevolent rich girl

My biggest complain is the amount of luck that is present in the 'heists' and all around.
Yeah, they even comment on Joker's luck and all, but being self aware doesn't really solve the problem. For instance that notebook with passwords in a bank. They aren't stealing it in some intresting fashion, but instead boss fucking drops it.
Or that entrance to the space station that magically needs authorization. Not only don't they try to find a way around it, but even going on a job to BBB would make much more sense then just forcing a character into your party.
And this shit is all around the game.
Doesn't help that everything between the end of casino and final boss is a fucking drag-on-plotoon
And don't get me started on the confidants that follow the same fucking pattern most of the time. So having some change of pace like a workaround (you did nothing eventually) in Sojiro's case was a breath of a fresh air.

I don't like how outside of Yusuke's Confidant the game treats Madarame as someone that's worse than Hitler, yet turns around and has nothing happen to Sae even though it's heavily implied she put innocent people in to jail. I'm not arguing that Madarame wasn't vain and greedy and he was in the right to do the things he did, but isn't treating the Justice system as a game and putting innocent people in jail a little worse than that? Nothing happens to her because she's viewed as a main character and her little sister is a member of the party.

>>377215713
I mean P5 characters aren't that complex but you still managed to get them fundamentally wrong

>2 (TWO) fucking s.links and even main story itself force neetcunt on you
Fuck off.

>>377215781
Makoto uses her ass to keep Joker distracted from ever hating on Sae

>>377215797
go on and correct me then.

Tora was the best S.link in P5. Everything else was monotonous drivel.

The characters never really get much chances to interact with each other outside of phantom thieves
Thus they never got the opportunity to show their development
And in the few cases where the writers did try to show character development it felt really sudden and ooc i.e. yuusuke's puns

>>377215843
Makoto's entire deal is that she was following what people expected of her and her realizing that was not what she wanted
Yusuke's pursuit of purity is irrespective of art

>post-Casino cutscenes
>Akechi and Shido turns into Saturday morning cartoon villains

>>377215973
oh, so pretty much exactly what i said for makoto?

and everything for yusuke is about his art, every conversation you have with him revolves around it.

>>377216058
>who wants to live up to expectations
That's the direct opposite, you are criminally unintelligent
Stop embarrassing yourself

>>377216147
>nitpicking this much in defense of terribly written characters
>basically admitting i nailed the rest of them

yeah, I'M the one embarrassing myself

Some point plots really bugged me.

First, the way Akechi's arc ended. I don't know how to explain it in perfect english (not my first language) but something felt really off. I did not have the feeling of completion I expected i would have at this moment. Something was lacking.
Then, the way Haru accepts the death of her father. if I remember correctly, Haru goes with the phantom thieves to change the heart of her father. They promise that by doing so, her father would be ok. Then goes the press conference and he dies. She didn't express doubt or suspicions on what the PT did. Actually to be honest, she does say in one of her text something along the lines of "at the beginning i doubted you but it didnt last long, sorry". That kind of realization is ok but it's exposed through a single line in a mail...
Finally, Makoto is way too much important in the mid/late parts of the plot... This is a thing I saw in other threads.

>>377213731
>You need to spend years in school before your opinion is worth anything

Alexander Pope, is that you?

Coming from someone with a relevant degree, the only thing that matters, especially in academia, is how strong your arguments are, based on how well you support them with evidence.

There is obviously going to be a correlation between training and argument quality, but that doesn't mean people without academic training cannot present valid, compelling arguments.

The poster you pointed to makes some very reasonable assertions, and he could easily support them with specific examples from the narrative if he was trying to present a more formal argument, instead of a cursory counterpoint.

>>377214308
That's a lie. None of your party members confidants need you to go to Mementos, Mishima doesn't requires a boss fight either.

>Introduction of comically evil person oppressing them
But they're not comically evil, literally the first request you do is about a bully who is being forced into being a bully

>I don't understand how people say this game had the best social links, they're garbage.
They're better. You probably didn't play 3 or 4 to begin with

>You don't even help the person through their issue like every other game did, every single one is the protagonist fixing their problem for them because he's magic.
That's helping. It's different in 5 because the problem comes from an outside source instead of it being an internal problem like in 4

>>377214571
No, it's great because they find out that you're a phantom thief at the end of it and it becomes an honest relationship where you both trust and share your personal secrets. The maxed out confidants texting you after your "death" because they were worried and also being aware of the mementos apocalypse is a fantastic touch.

>>377214240
I never really felt that what the PT were doing was evil, they were forcing despicable people to change their twisted views in reality and feel regret. You, as the player, is encouraged to uphold their sense of personal justice.

>>377216565
Post degree, faggot.

Persona 5 DOES have bad writing. If you really examine the story, a lot of motivations and actions don't make any fucking sense.

But that's not the point. That's been the case with every Persona game. P5's writing is fun, dumb schlock. It's exciting and cool first, logic and sense enter as an afterthought.

It's the inverse law of persona: The more you examine it, the worse the story is.

>>377215781
The game can't seem to decide if you need to have a talk with someone to get them to change their heart or not, no one really talks to Sae after she's defeated, they almost immediately get attacked by the police(even though this part was planned). She doesn't have the feeling to confess all of her sins like everyone else did, she just silently changes how she acts.

>Grr I hate Kaneshiro, he's taking advantage of Shujin students!
But Makoto your sister put people who didn't do anything in jail and probably planted evidence on them.
>But that's my nee-san.

>>377215086
>hurrrrr adultz r bad
I don't understand this meme

Multiple adults in the game are good people

>>377216859
how many times during the game does a character blame their problems on "rotten adults"?

pay attention to your shitty game.

>>377212372
Poor writing? No, I don't think so.

Poor translation? Yeah, big time.

>>377216843
>no one really talks to Sae after she's defeated,
Makoto does

You didn't play the game

>>377216920
The game is mostly about people in power(be it due to position or having that power for an emotional reason) abusing said power and oppressing other people. There are many cases where it's an adult oppressing another adult, namely every single adult confidant.

It's just for the main cast this is going to be adult most of the time, because they're high school students.

>>377216934
No, the writing is pretty poor. It's probably worse than the previous modern Persona's even. That's not why people play these games, though. They know they're getting in to really dumb anime when they pick it up.

>>377216652
>None of your party members confidants need you to go to Mementos
Futaba
>Mishima doesn't requires a boss fight either
Isn't Mishima all Mementos boss fights to progress?
>They're better.
If you look at each Confidant in a vacuum maybe, but P5 has the same setup and progression for all non-PT Confidants. There is no variety. Ai from P4 was so much better than another "Give me a name" at Rank 7 in P5.

>>377216920
But the moral of the game isn't "hurr durr shitty adults"

Of course, the main characters in the game formed and joined the PT because of problems forced on them by adults with twisted desires but the games makes a point in showing you that good adults do exist.

>>377216740
Humanities with combined honors in English.

>>377216652
>That's helping.
It's a mutual thing in Persona 3 and 4. In 5 it's "Give me a name". You fix their problem because you're magic, not because of anything you said to them.

>>377217013
Did you play the game? She doesn't talk to her in the same way every other Palace owner gets talked to nor is she told to confess her sins like everyone else. Every other Palace owner gets a stern talking to from the self-righteous Phantom Thieves. Sae has a palace because her views on things are warped and she did some fucked up things. The game doesn't punish her for it because she's Makoto's sister.

It's a problem the series has always had, especially when they moved to the calendar year system.

Since the game cannot advance any faster than what the developers intended, you're locked to their glacial pacing. This means massive amounts of filler and repetitive content, while distinct events that advance the plot are actually fairly rare.

Then there's the fact that each Persona game since 3 latches onto one philosophical idea and hammers you with that shit for 70-100 hours. And not in a sophisticated manner where things are explored from multiple angles and nuances are discussed.

Take P5 for example. The idea of stealing hearts to change them (read: brainwashing) only works if you make the villains ridiculous Saturday morning cartoon characters. No depth, no real impetus for the player to off them beyond a timer (aside from Kamoshida really).

Also, there's hamhanded political commentary against populism and getting up and making change in the world the old fashioned way. These are legitimately good points, but fuck me does the team fumble this hard.

Futaba: I got revenge for my mom!
Me: Wait, you did? What?

>>377212372
it's all just generic high schooler tropes. if you aren't a shut-in autist you will know that people don't interact or talk like those characters do

>>377212809
the plot twist was that akechi wasn't the plot twist

>>377217089
>Futaba
Forgot about her. Still she's the only one
>Isn't Mishima all Mementos boss fights to progress?
Yes but you rank up everytime you meet him and you don't need a single specific request to advance
>If you look at each Confidant in a vacuum maybe, but P5 has the same setup and progression for all non-PT Confidants. There is no variety. Ai from P4 was so much better than another "Give me a name" at Rank 7 in P5.
That's the case for 3 and 4 as well. Most social links had to with the theme of the game. 3 was loss/separating/death. 4 was falsehood/truth/finding your true self

It just so happens that in 5, the theme is "people denied of their freedom by other people"

>>377216652
Ehh, P3 and P4 had better Confidants just by virtue of them being a more diverse group of people.

In P5 80% of the Confidants are young women strictly for the purposes of having a harem for the main character.

And like anon mentioned, it got tot he point where I was just waiting until they dropped the mementos part of their Slink.

>>377217294
Futaba is less of a character and more of a deus ex machina. So if any party member gets to say they did something it's them.

>>377213151
dude there is only good and evil lmao

>>377213398
the dialogue literally just says "rotten adults" multiple times

>>377216843
Shadow Sae talks to Makoto for a good long while. Also, Sae isn't an inherently shitty person like the others so it wouldn't take as much. Not to mention she was talking to the main character in real life.

>>377217079
>No, the writing is pretty poor. It's probably worse than the previous modern Persona's even.
It's not poor ar all. It's average at worse. It's still better than 3 and 4 though.

The Persona game with best writing was 2, too bad the gameplay was shit.
>>377217246
>It's a mutual thing in Persona 3 and 4. In 5 it's "Give me a name". You fix their problem because you're magic, not because of anything you said to them.
It's a mutual thing in P5 as well. You gain specific confidant's bonus, did you forgot?
>Did you play the game? She doesn't talk to her in the same way every other Palace owner gets talked to nor is she told to confess her sins like everyone else
She does talks with Sae's Shadow after the fight. You're confusing yourself

>>377217420
No, but saying a story has """shit writing""" because it doesn't fit into your fedora moral relativist views is juvenile as fuck

Star Wars wouldn't work with shades of grey, and Game of Thrones works because of its moral ambiguity. Try to flip flop them, and they'd suffer for it.

>>377213151
>>377214023
is this a bot?

>>377212372
The writing isn't poor. Just the translation. But they didn't take out any anime tiddy, so /v/ doesn't care.

>>377217630
No, it got posted twice because hiroshima nagasaki fucked up the servers and posting was screwed up for a few hours

>>377217409
They really didn't

Most social links in P3 sucked horribly.
P4 is victim of this as well. P5 improved significantly
>
In P5 80% of the Confidants are young women strictly for the purposes of having a harem for the main character.
Do you hate women, anon? You also don't need to romance every single one of them.

>>377217162
Post pic of degree, faggot.

There are far too many instances of characters saying the same thing over and over again either to really drill it into your head that they are worried about something or just to have text messages for the sake of it. There needs to be more instances of people just kinda shutting up. People aren't ALWAYS talking 24/7 after all.

>>377216652
>But they're not comically evil

Kawakami's oppressors are family members of a student she tutored. They somehow convince her she owes them money and they're basically railroading a person in to prostitution to keep up with their demands. The reason for them doing this is because "I want to wear nice clothes".

Futaba's Uncle is a stereotypical abusive family member taken to comical extremes,he treated her worse than an animal.

Chihaya's mementos request is for someone who's basically trying to run a cult.

Futaba's mementos request is for her friends parents who are whoring out their daughter for money. "We're going to make things right with her now" The fuck? You've very likely already caused irreversible mental damage to her so does it really matter if you're going to treat her right now?

Those are some off the top of my head.

Ryuji: What the eff? Who do these fucking adults think they are

Yeah, great writing.

>>377217720
It's funny that you are complaining about repetition but this is only apparent in NG+ because well, it's NG+

Playing blind, I really didn't see any "repetition"

>>377217726
Don't forget for Kawakami the family also could've raised the kid normally but wanted to punish him because he came from a better background
Comically evil

>>377217759
>Ryuji
>"fucking"

Name one instance.

>>377217779
The text messages in the game all say the same shit.

>>377217504
>Also, Sae isn't an inherently shitty person

The thing is though is that she is. She's emotionally abuse to Makoto and her palace implies she put innocent people in to jail. The game just handwaves due to the combination of her being a main character and her being Makoto's sister. Unlike everyone else who has their career ruined and has to publicly humiliate themselves shouting out their sins Sae gets to quietly right her ship and become a better person. Lucky her.

>>377217376
>don't need a single specific request to advance
Not sure, but isn't the bully mission necessary?
>It just so happens that in 5, the theme is "people denied of their freedom by other people"
And why does this entail a mandatory Mementos mission at Rank 7? I'm not complaining about the general theme, just that after the second time they introduce an evil third party and Joker asks for name it became quite predictable. Makoto's SL was some surprise when she didn't suggest going to Mementos to change Enko's boyfriends heart.

>>377214081
This is the probably the biggest problem I had with the game, its refusal to challange the player cuz they're afaid to piss off the fans. They sold this game as dark and subversive but its the safest fucking game Ive seen since dragon age inquisition

>>377217779
I haven't started NG+ yet
I am talking about how after every day I am bombarded with text messages saying "Man, I'm worried about this next guy. He's a no good scum bag and we have to take him down. Will we be able to do it?"
>Yes
>Yes but slightly more snarky
Rinse and repeat.

It gets old after a while.

>>377217882
Her palace does paint a pretty fucking bad picture, specifically the maze and arena

>>377217726
>The reason for them doing this is because "I want to wear nice clothes".
Are you saying blackmail isn't thing in the real world and it's comically evil?
>Futaba's Uncle is a stereotypical abusive family member taken to comical extremes,he treated her worse than an animal.
How is that comical? Are you saying that doesn't happens in real life?
>Chihaya's mementos request is for someone who's basically trying to run a cult.
Cults and bastards who run them don't exist in real life?
>friends parents who are whoring out their daughter for money. "We're going to make things right with her now" The fuck? You've very likely already caused irreversible mental damage to her so does it really matter if you're going to treat her right now
They can take her to a psychologist and stop whoring her out, maybe?
>Those are some off the top of my head
None of those are comically evil. Most are examples of things you can find in japanese society or any other for that matter

The only comically evil thing was the video game cheater guy.

>>377218005
This isn't healthy for your psyche

>>377215781
No, that's not quite right.
Nothing happens to Sae because she's a sexy woman. Punishing her might make people who waifu her upset and hurt future merchandising. Nevermind that she's a verbally abusive caretaker (even when she's not shouting at Makoto, she's undercutting her, devaluing her, dismissing her and expressing how little she trusts her) and has ruined at least a dozen lives, it's fine because she's hot and a girl cares about her!

>>377217880
They don't.
>>377217915
I really didn't notice that actually. Beasically because each circumstance behind a Palace was kind of different.

>half a year passes
>top of the class
>in top 10 on last exams
>answer some random question during the class wrong
>"No way he'd knew that lmao"
>"Of course, I mean he's..."
>go study in library
>"WTF is that guy doing there?"
>"I bet he's up to no good!"

>>377218005
they are comically evil because the motivations for those actions are just because "I'M A BAD PERSON"

>>377218104
>they don't
Alright nigger are you fucking serious? Everytime you clear a palace early you get identical messages every other day about them expressing their worry

>>377217905
>Not sure, but isn't the bully mission necessary?
You need to do requests to be able to rank up his link however, he doesn't have a personal one.
>And why does this entail a mandatory Mementos mission at Rank 7?
Because the game found a fun way to insert gameplay into a SL. It isn't even hard to take care of these if you know proper time management. I finished all of them in one playthrough

>>377217853
http://i.imgur.com/gUlmGyF.png
Image uploading down for anyone else?

>>377217853
I'm pretty sure he said "fucking" during the dialogue in cafe attic after protag's death ruse explanation

>>377218072
What?
>>377218182
Bad people don't exist in the real world?
Regardless if you listen to what they ahve to say after you defeat them, you get their reasoning. Futaba's uncle was a gambling addict and had inferiority complex towards Wakaba for example

>>377218005
I don't think you know what comically evil is, it doesn't have to be something that wouldn't happen in real life to be "comical". It's more that these people don't have anything to their characters other than "I'm a really really bad person". In many cases these are things that can happen in real life, but are taken to super extreme levels. This anon even added>>377217829 to the Kawakami part of my post by reminding me they were abusive to the kid that was killed because he came from more money.

>Are you saying that doesn't happens in real life?
It does but the game goes out of its way to make him an extreme example of it. He didn't even let Futaba bathe when she was in his care. He also doesn't really want her back and is just trying to get money out of Sojiro because he gambles it away.

>They can take her to a psychologist and stop whoring her out
Looks like you at least agree with me that Kana's parents are stupidly evil people.

>>377216565
I'm that poster.
I have a Bachelor's in English with a creative writing focus; my formatting is just shit because I'm phoneposting at work. Nobody on /v/ wants to read an essay anyway.

The conversations before boss battles.

>I'm bad!
>Your bad!
>I'M BAD!
>YOUR BAD!

>>377215378
Honestly if the villans were way more hammy scenery chewers like the winds of destruction I would be able to forgive some of the writing structure

>>377212809

>plot twist

I think most of /v/ is retarded

>>377218094
Sae isn't even a popular character in Nippon
>>377218191
Yes, and? I felt it was natural considering the change of heart they pefrorm could be prone to failures. Okumura was the one time they felt confident and that fucked them over

>>377214024

Who knows what you autists are all talking about with this 'nakama' shit but it must be an autistic gripe you all have because I never heard mention of the word

>>377218298
>Bad people don't exist in the real world?
They do, but the examples in P5 are of people who are comically evil.

> you get their reasoning.
The thing is that in pretty much all cases it doesn't even remotely justify it.

>I'm a gambling addict
Great, that doesn't excuse you mistreating Futaba and not even letting her clean herself, though.

>We were jealous of this kids parents.
Great, but that doesn't excuse you ruining Kawakami's life. Kawakami is probably in the worst position in the entire game out of the ones you actually interact with. These people are monsters and not only mistreated the child they're trying to make Kawakami guilty for killing but railroading her in to having to whore her body out and quit teaching.

Many people have issues like this but they don't take them to these levels of extremity. The majority of the Mementos requests you get from Confidants DO go this level of extremity.

>>377218502
Is Google a foreign concept to you?

>>377218502
Nakama is a word for close friends in jap. Power of friendship is a common anime cliche.

>>377218348
>it doesn't have to be something that wouldn't happen in real life to be "comical". It's more that these people don't have anything to their characters other than "I'm a really really bad person".
If that's the case, they give you their reasons for what they did after you defeat them in Mementos. Did you never país attention to it?
>Kawakami part of my post by reminding me they were abusive to the kid that was killed because he came from more money.
And envy is a reasonable motivation and not comical ar all
>It does but the game goes out of its way to make him an extreme example of it. He didn't even let Futaba bathe when she was in his care. He also doesn't really want her back and is just trying to get money out of Sojiro because he gambles it away.
And what's the problem in it being extreme? Real life has it worse.
>Looks like you at least agree with me that Kana's parents are stupidly evil people
They're evil and stupid but not comical because what they did with their child is no laughing matter but it's something that happens in the real world unfortunately

>>377218094
Even when Makoto isn't trying to hide something from her sister you get the sense that she is scared of her. The "you're useless" tirade from Sae probably isn't the first time she's been abusive to her.

>>377218206
>a fun way to insert gameplay into a SL
No. II hate bringing up Makoto again, but that one small section in her Confidant, where you could freely walk around with her and "investigate", was much more fun than yet another Mementos boss. It doesn't even fit the whole "Phantom thief" spiel when do things like a random thug. Just replace some requests with proper mini quests like the ones we had in the previous games.

> It isn't even hard to take care of these if you know proper time management. I finished all of them in one playthrough
Yeah, I did too, but that doesn't change the fact that they made SLs even more formulaic.

>>377218415
It pointless. There is zero reason for them to worry after Kaneshiro's change of heart. If worked perfectly the previous two times, it's going to work the next five times if they did the exact same way every time.

>>377216715
For some of us it comes off as brain washing which many of us hold strong oppinions about combined with the fact that the game hand waves any moral dilemma by making every target "worse than Hitler" tier

>>377218576

Why would I bother doing that you retard, it's your autistic gripe. It was never said once in the game unless you were playing it in the wrong language but you probably are that stupid

>>377218536
>They do, but the examples in P5 are of people who are comically evil.
I don't see how desu


>The thing is that in pretty much all cases it doesn't even remotely justify it.
Explain how it doesn't. Because you think so?What would be a reasonable behavior for you?

>Great, that doesn't excuse you mistreating Futaba and not even letting her clean herself, though.
Yes, that doesn't excuse him. He is a shitty person but he has a reason for why he was acting like that

You deliberately forgot to address his inferiority complex as well

>

Great, but that doesn't excuse you ruining Kawakami's life. Kawakami is probably in the worst position in the entire game out of the ones you actually interact with.
I'm not trying to excuse them, dude. Their reasons are all backwards because they're twisted by their desires but they're there. The pair wanted to take profit of that child, he died and they blamed Kawakami, deciding to gain the profit they felt entitled to from her

>These people are monsters and not only mistreated the child they're trying to make Kawakami guilty for killing but railroading her in to having to whore her body out and quit teaching.
That's pretty tragic and fucked up but I fail to see how that is comically evil

>Many people have issues like this but they don't take them to these levels of extremity. The majority of the Mementos requests you get from Confidants DO go this level of extremity.
That is even less extreme than a few things that happen in the real world to be honest. And it honestly follows the themes of their desires corrupting them

>>377212372
i dont like it so its bad and here is why... [insert mental gymnastics]

I JUST WANT TO POST MY WAIFU
WHY GOD WHY

>>377218724
>was much more fun than yet another Mementos boss. It doesn't even fit the whole "Phantom thief" spiel when do things like a random thug. Just replace some requests with proper mini quests like the ones we had in the previous games.
That's you. I honestly enjoyed the memento side quests more. The fetch quests in 4 bored the fuck out of me

And Makoto's confidant is widely know as one of the weakest, I like the girl but they could have done a better job with it

>Yeah, I did too, but that doesn't change the fact that they made SLs even more formulaic.
It didn't feel to me because each problem was different. Defeating their Mementos bosses felt like I was actively helping them and repaying them for their help with their confidant 's bonus

>>377218613
The screeching is even worse because Makoto backed down, Sae pretended it was fine and coerced her to say it, then screamed at her.

That's horribly manipulative and cruel. That shit isn't okay.

>>377218765
I'd worry too if my ass was on the line and if you don't care for it dude, you can just press triangle and skip the shit. Takes less than a second

>>377213806
This
I was like "Oh fuck what did i even do wrong"

Then they smiled

>>377218943
I love how the people who defend the writing tend to shitpost instead of presenting actual arguments.

>>377218857
I don't see how we're going to ever agree here. I keep saying that while these are feelings people could have the reactions to them are evil and the majority of confidant requests in the game are reacting in this very evil way. You keep saying that these feelings justify these evil doings. It explains them maybe, justifies them? Fuck no.

Can anyone explain why they think Persona 5 writing is good?

>>377218846
You really are retarded.

>>377217251
>Third paragraph
Funny considering how p4 played out

>>377218819
It's not brainwashing at all. You're basically just taking away the twisted desires someone has and making them repent for their crimes. You're supposed to be completely sure of your justice by the end game.

Obnoxious amount of exposition, especially towards the end. No overarching plot for 80% of the game, uses cliched villain of the week narrative structure. Characters have to literally spell out how they feel because they couldn't think of a creative way to get the message across. Character motivations and actions don't make sense.

For example, shortly after Goro literally tries to murder Joker, he gets a pity party from the main cast because 'I'm only evil cause my dad is a meanie'.

Kamoshida was too good of a villain, nobody else could measure up.

>>377219096
It justifies how they act because their twisted desires were controlling them. That's a thing in the game

It does not excuses them or makes them comically evil though

>>377219089
I shouldn't have to skip it.

>>377212372
It is repetitive and unrealistic, it's literally aimed at little kids. Do you know any smart and sucesfull people in your life? A teacher, professor or aquintance? What kinda story would they enjoy? Hint: Not that weeb shit

>>377219158
>It's not brainwashing at all.

Yes it is.

You forcibly changing their mindset without their consent and them being aware of it. I don't care if it's right or wrong but stop pretending what they do isn't textbook definition of brainwashing

>>377219178
Kamoshida was a shitter compared to Shido, Madarame, Kaneshiro and even Okumura.

He just has an impact because "hurr it's personal" but it not being personal it's the whole point of the PT, they don't do what they do for personal gain or satisfaction even though by midgame they end up in a phase where they are corrupted by fame (Ryuji especifically).

>>377218594
>pais
je suise monte!

>>377219258
The game offers you the tool to make it so though. You can skip it if it's boring to you just like you do in real life
>B-but I shouldn't have
Shitty excuse

>>377217079
The problem is that the fist arc is legitimately good and made it seem like the game wasent just a dumb anime game

>>377219363
PT are garbage thieves anyways

90% of their targets were out of self defence

>>377219026
>dude that's so not cool bro :(((

Its a japanese game of course the writing is garbage.

I fucking laugh so hard at the Akechi part its was literally Naruto shounen jump tier garbage.

>>377219363
>Kamoshida was a shitter compared to Madarame

But this is wrong, Madarame did relatively nothing wrong.

>>377218536
Not that anon, but there are many people that have very low, stupid reasons for doing bad things.

>>377219272
Why would you need their consent when your target is literal scum of society?
>But muh grey morality
Game never tried to actively show that what you did was wrong.

>>377219015
>I honestly enjoyed the memento side quests more.
And that's you. But, again, it doesn't change the fact that the general structure of those Confidants is exactly the same. The moment it introduces the bad guy giving them problems you know how it'll end.
>Makoto's confidant is widely know as one of the weakest
Sure, but at least it did change things up a bit. And I say that even though I can't stand her character.

>each problem was different
Overall it's the same formula. You can take the outline and change the details, that doesn't make them more interesting.

>>377217141
Only if you go out and find them if you don't put in work every adult is either comicly evil or completely oblivious except Sojiro because him not being a complete piece of shit is a plot point

>>377219242
>but they were being controlled by their own thoughts
what?

>>377212372
>Makoto , you are the reason why we can enter the bank!!!!
do i need to say more?

>>377219026
Imagine if Makoto didn't still care very deeply for her sister despite this

>>377219419
Or they could have not made it shit.

>>377219549
nobody is saying that they should need to consent retard. the fact that they don't consent makes it brainwashing no matter if it's good or bad

P3 and 4 also had stupid moments like parts of the story or dialogue that doesn't make sense, end-bosses out of nowhere or some characters that were hyped and then killed off like nothing, adults are usually stupid, start of the game despite being slow is interesting until 3rd dungeon but afterwards it gets to be tedious/boring and kinda rushed in matters of story.

Going back to the story part and in short, japan can't into story because they change plot or characters throught develpment too much which leads to plotholes, as they can't into making endings.

>>377219645
>do i need to say more?
Yes, say more nice things about Mako-chan.

>>377219467
They had a deadline for gameplay reasons but most of them were legitimate scumbags that needed to be targeted anyway.
>>377219496
Ruining the life of several people and basically killing someone is doing nothing wrong?

>>377219363
Kamoshida was the only one who was a villain becuase you have a reason to go after him. After Madarame every other target was just muh fame and muh self-defense.

I hated how the game questioned my decision making constantly.
>You're the leader Joker, we're going to listen to you!
>Hey Joker, we should go to the palace today
No. I dissagree
>GEE JOKER. ARE YOU SURE. I REALLY THINK OTHERWISE
>Joker, we should send the calling card today
No, we should wait a bit longer
>WOW JOKER. WHAT A SHITTY IDEA.
We're going to infiltrate the palace.
>ARE YOU SURE SHOULDN'T WE SEND THE CALLING CARD?
Yo dawg, lets hang out today.
>WHAT, SHOULDN'T WE GO TO THE PALACE?

Seriously, I know what I'm fucking doing. I wanted to smack every single one of my team mates for their insubordination.

>>377219747
>Muh makoto weifu
no wonder why you defend this trash writing

>That one scene where Akechi and Shido meet
>It's just 3 minutes of expository dialogue

This kind of shit offends my neurons

>>377214023
100% agree with this. I don't need all of my villains to have some sobby backstory that takes 10 minutes to explain why their actions might have been immoral, but justified and pitiable. Sometimes a douchebag is just a douchebag, and the interesting story comes from how the douchebag set up the chain of events.

If I wanted to spend every 20 minutes or so "caring" about the villain, I would have simply kept watching Case Closed.

Kamoshida was the only villain that was fleshed out properly.

>>377219883
That was pretty awful.
"Lets explain all of our actions, past and present, goals, motivations, methods, roles, and future plans to eachother."

Not even the most lost in their own world middle managers stroke themselves like Shido and Akechi in that scene. The worst kind of expository info dump.

I thought you guys were just meme spouting but this nigga really did get caught because of pancakes. Holy shit how do you fuck up so badly?

>>377219586
>And that's you. But, again, it doesn't change the fact that the general structure of those Confidants is exactly the same.
If that's the case, you could say the same for P3 and P4.
>talk to this person a number of times and you'll get a rank up
The thing that set them apart was their individual story. P5 also has that
>The moment it introduces the bad guy giving them problems you know how it'll end.
No, you don't. You know how to deal with them but you don't get to find what the consequences are for your confidants.
>Overall it's the same formula. You can take the outline and change the details, that doesn't make them more interesting.
If that's the case then just as I said, P3 and P4 have the same formula as well
>Talk to X and rank up
>Proceed to do the same thing again and again
P5 just added Mementos

>all the virgin weebs that usually defend the game are out because they can't post images of their waifu

Holy shit 4chan is so much better as a text only site.

I dislike how the game did a bad job at portraying the PT's downfall, it was supposed to be about them letting fame cloud their judgment but apart from Ryuji they were all suspicious as fuck about Okumura and Yusuke was annoyed by how people were treating them like just another source of entertainment instead of taking them seriously while Ann was scared by how rabid people were behaving online and how artificial their newfound popularity seemed.

>>377214240
This isn't brainwashing.

>>377212372
Goro and Shido.
Kamoshida was best palace villain and can't be topped, and that's a bad thing considering Shido.

test

>>377220102
It was a damn waste of the Sun confidant to never bring up Shido, I mean if you're going to give us a politician for a social link, why not tie it into the plot a bit when the major human antagonist is another politician that's famous?

>>377219610
Irrelevant. If you don't do confidants you're losing a good part of the game
>>377219628
Twisted desires growing out of proportion and affecting the metaverse is a thing in the story.
>>377219785
That's a lie and you know it. Kaneshiro was a bigger scumbag than Kamoshida ever hoped to be

>>377212742
Wow check out these hot takes.

Also I am surprised how many rational people are attempting to make rational posts on /v/ lately. Little by little we can fight back against the low quality of this board and make it okay-ish again

>>377220041
>but you don't get to find what the consequences are for your confidants
Meant to add: *until you talk to them*

>>377212372
compared to the stuff it wants to be (an interactive Manga with some gameplay here and there) its utter trash

>>377212372
Why is image posting broken?

>>377212372

>>377220296

I'm not even able to start my own thread

>>377220038
That's implying Akechi was a "detective" without relying on daddy's money and his persona's super special disguise power and causing people to go insane.

>>377220180
>Kaneshiro was a bigger scumbag than Kamoshida ever hoped to be
Not even close. The game actually shows how much a asshole Kamoshida is. It only tells you how bad Kaneshiro is.

>>377220240
We honestly have too many idiots.
Not trying to be inflammatory; we legitimately have too many posters with awful reading comprehension and argumentative skills. The removal of their reaction images and shit memes forces them to actually try discussing things or shouting nonsense and looking stupid for it.

>>377220078
Only Ryuji was affected by the fame desu.

>>377219883
Oh my god this scene

Why on earth was it necessary to explain everything in one scene when the game is 100 hours long?

Btw, 4chan is a better place without the meme pictures.

>>377219549
>Why would you need their consent when your target is literal scum of society?
Bruv, that's what brainwashing is.
>Game never tried to actively show that what you did was wrong.

Which was a problem and was lazily handled. The only person who constantly objected the idea and challenged the group's policy was a murdering scumbag with daddy issues

>>377219026
Yeah this scene was complete and total bullshit

Sae LITERALLY asks Makoto to keep the conversation going when Makoto realized it was out of place and was going to stop, then explodes at her for talking about useless things

>>377220397
Ann stepped out of line a bit but she quickly corrected herself, but that didn't matter in the end because Morgana's bitchfit that was completely unrelated to the fameshit ended up dragging them into the palace and having to help Haru.

>>377220157
Devil link tied to Shido.
>>377220376
Kamoshida
>Raped a bitch
>Abused students
Kaneshiro
>Extorted students
>Killed people
>Ruined lives
You find shit on Kamoshida through the metaverse, with Kaneshiro too.

>>377212372
Anon, you're barking up a wrong tree. I used to ask this question all the time before the /lit/ containment board was made to house all of these high school writer rejects.

The discussion is flawed fundamentally to begin with. No story exists without flaws, so if you ask "why is this a bad story?" or "why is this poor writing?", people are going to come to you with things about the story/writing that annoyed them or they found personally distasteful and express them as factual problems that prevent a work from being considered good, which will get us nowhere.

The question that needs to be asked is "If Persona 5 isn't a good story, then what IS a good story, and why is Persona 5 different?"

I know there is another potential weakness in this question itself, but usually when I ask it here on 4chan, someone just posts a list of books that would only challenge a Middle-Schooler (and in fact, I have read most of the /lit/'s recommended books in middle school), and says "Just read these and you'll understand" with no further comments.

Persona 5's story isn't poor writing. It has flaws and poor moments, but overall, I find it to be good. It tackles its issues and themes pretty well, manages to keep you glued to your seat, has wonderful characters that are likable for the most part (Evidence: Waifu threads haven't stopped for literally a month), and even makes you think. I cannot find such a story to be "poor".

>>377220548
>Devil link tied to Shido.
Yeah but it would have also been nice to get a glimpse of how Tora viewed Shido.

ads

>hurr the bad guys are 1 dimensionally evil
Very few of you understand what a shadow is.

>>377220451
>Which was a problem and was lazily handled.
It really wasn't. The PT were in the right and using the metaverse for what they did is valid

Not every story needs a overwhemingly grey ethic

>The only person who constantly objected the idea and challenged the group's policy was a murdering scumbag with daddy issues
And Akechi's intial points were the points of a lawfag. You're not supposed to side with him

>>377220038
>>377220347
Nah the game made Akechi ridiculously stupid. Literally even Ryuji would have picked up half the shit he noticed.

He's heard Morgana's distinct voice before and while he hears it again the PT go and describe who spoke saying it was the cat and went on explaining why it can't get in to rides. You literally have to be stupid and i mean stupid as fuck not to pick up the cat was talking and don't give me the " he wouldn't suspect a cat talking" when you got demons talking to people and shit around. They had to go and make the dumbest character alive

>>377219363

It's almost as if developed villains are more interesting to confront.

Most of the antagonists afterward barely gave us much in the way of reasoning to actually target them aside from anecdotal evidence, especially Madarame where they had to asspull "by the way I indirectly killed your mother" at the last minute to justify it.

>>377216843
>>377215781
>>377220487
How's a parasite supposed to feed if it's host is in prison?
You'd think Kaneshiro's lampshading of his shit life would get him some sympathy points.
>>377220438
Well we're more like the nip sites that this place was based on without it. Most be a coincidence.

>>377212372
>Explain to me how Persona 5 has poor writing.

I'll use a metaphor. Think of this thread as the group text that you receive every couple of nights, and you feel you are obligated to read every message in the thread because it's part of the game.

>>377220710
>Lawfag
>bad

I really liked Goro before uncovering his true nature that ruined his whole character.

>>377220618
This.
>>377220723
The game already estabilished that Akechi is a complete retard. Bastard even had to CREATE the crimes he solved.

>>377220869

>Goro takes the spicy takoyaki

That was even more cathartic than actually fighting him.

>>377220041
>If that's the case, you could say the same for P3 and P4.
But they did things much more differently in those games. Some SLs are bad, some are good, but at least they didn't do exactly same progression. Ai's SL can reverse, you can become temporary lovers which locks you out of a proper lover's relationship. Naoto needs some flags for that to happen. Shit like this mixes things up and makes progressing through each SL interesting.
>No, you don't.
Their problems are gone and they find out that you're a phantom thief. Hurray.
>You know how to deal with them but you don't get to find what the consequences are for your confidants
Each confidant's backstory and the resolution after their problems are gone are fine for the most part, just how you get there is fucking boring after the third time.
>P5 just added Mementos
Yes, at exactly the same Rank. You can do that once or twice to make things interesting, if you do it for almost every Confidant makes the 10 Rank structure feel even more formulaic.

>>377220723

Akechi was dumb though, he was driven entirely being a salty retard about daddy issues when he was literally handed the ability to create his own destiny.

>>377220618
Well shilled.

>>377220710
>The PT were in the right and using the metaverse for what they did is valid

Only because the villains were ridiculously evil. If you're gonna make a story about antagonists with twisted desires you don't have to make every faggot an outright scumbag.

Madarame letting Yusuke's mum die was excessive

>>377212372
I've seen two hour of it myself, and the dialogue is kinda repetitive so far.

"Oh, aren't you that criminal? Ugh, I don't want to teach you. What a pain! You're such trouble, even though I've encountered you twice for five minutes at a time and you stood there reticent all the while. If you cause any more trouble than you haven't already, then you're going to be left on the side of the motorway in a box!"

>>377220992
Yup, his fixation of revenge blinded him to the ability he was given. It blinded him to how stupid he was and the fact that he got high off his own supply (believing he was some ace detective).

>>377220920
>mfw someone used the word cathartic near me
>mfw I can't post mf

I just now finished the game. What a ride.
When does the pain stop bros?

>>377220747
You fins evidence of their deeds in the Palace itself. Nice try, though

>>377220992
>could've make Shido and his party berserk so you can try damage their popularity and ruin his dream
>or just kill him
>>377220869
>instead of show off douchebag of a lawfag we get daddy issues pancake man

>>377220856
Fuck off betatron

>>377220895
>Bastard even had to CREATE the crimes he solved.

I mean this isn't stupid. It's a quick way to rise to fame with less effort and zero risks.

>>377220992
Which is why antagonists like him are just pathetic. He didn't even do the shit he did for himself like goddamn should have never written this faggot

>>377212372
I don't know about poor, but there's certainly too many repeated explanations regarding the Metaverse.

>>377221116

Because watching robots working on an assembly line has the same impact as a rape victim throwing themselves off the school roof.

>>377220618
The Very Hungry Caterpillar is a better story than Persona 5 because it deals with more serious topics like food waste.

It wanted to be the cool kind of edgy like SMT series and you can see that based on the red theme and more grimdark atmosphere in comparison to P4 but it went full retard since the wrtters of the series can only do high school flavored shit

>>377221070
People high on revenge are never usually this dumb though.

>>377220946
This is my problem with them. I like most of them but the fact that they are so formulaic makes me not want to do them. I think futabas is one of the few that feel different.

>>377221239
uhhh ackchually The Very Hungry Caterpillar is an allegory for the soviet scorched earth march into Berlin in WWII.

>>377219628
The minor antagonist in these confidants: such as the blackmailing couple, and the parents whoring out their daughter. These people and their demands initially were minor, but since there were no repercussions from the victims, their behavior worsened and their desires/greed got out of control.The couple kept on increasing the amount of blackmail money, and the exploitative parents probably made their daughter do even worse things.

>>377219093
Because like the game they're all style and no substance

>>377221239
The comparison of a work that is radically different in all aspects to a point that it is incomparable to the work in question is in fact the potential weakness I mentioned.

I'd post some anime titties as a reward for you, but 4chan's image uploader is is fucked, so just take solace in knowing that I appreciate your cheeky candor.

>>377220946
>Ai's SL can reverse, you can become temporary lovers which locks you out of a proper lover's relationship.
Doesn't help the fact that her S.Link wasn't that good.
>Naoto needs some flags for that to happen.
Her S.Link wasn't good either.
>Shit like this mixes things up and makes progressing through each SL interesting.
Progressing in 5 felt interesting and rewarding

Also, kind of funny how you could only give me two examples

>Their problems are gone and they find out that you're a phantom thief. Hurray.
Yes but how their story will end? What will they do now? These things are still particular for each person
>Each confidant's backstory and the resolution after their problems are gone are fine for the most part, just how you get there is fucking boring after the third time.
It really isn't because the problem itself only shows it's face after a while
>Yes, at exactly the same Rank. You can do that once or twice to make things interesting, if you do it for almost every Confidant makes the 10 Rank structure feel even more formulaic.
Makes it easier for time management. You won't see me complaining

Your whole reason for finding the confidant system formulaic can be applied to P3 and P4 as well.

>>377221265
>cool edgy
>mainline
Best edgy is the comically stupid shit like Tokyo Revelations or the Novels

>>377221326
>Tfw futaba's dungeon was when they started running out of bugdet. And you can tell it was planned before makotos.

>>377221102
>When does the pain stop bros?

When you play an actual good game.

>>377212372
Its not terrible but theres definitely some flaws.
I'd say the worst aspects are some things get over explained. I also think some plot points are tacked on. Overall though, they aren't terribly written. Some jokes fall flat too, but I guess thats more of an opinion

>>377220618
Just because you wrote a few paragraphs don't mean you're right.

can you guys recommend some well written anime?

>>377221513
K-ON!

>>377212372
It doesn't. Persona doesn't have the best writing ever or anything, but P5's writing is pretty good; it accomplishes what it sets out to do in and very cool and stylish way. The plot intertwines a lot of thematic elements of societal oppression, rebellion, freedom, how society cognitively views others and itself, and how society's views can be manipulated. It intertwines all these elements so well not only together, but with the gameplay as well and it all comes together to make for a fantastic finale and final boss. Shit like the mounds of faceless, ghost-like NPCs walking through all the real-world environments and the chatter that comes from them is a good example of the themes of the game connecting to the gameplay. Same with the Confidants, all of the characters are dealing with some kind of oppression they have to rebel against.

>>377221513
Trapeze

>>377221468
Futaba's dungeon was awesome.
It was also the only one they fucking finished.

>>377221513
Kaiba

>>377213440
Still better than P4

>>377219158
That literally brain washing, you take a part of them that you don't like and change it, the target dosent start thier repentance by thier own free will. Lets put it this way replace taking twisted desires to placing good desires and have the phantom thieves remark about how the target spends all thier money on charity, is it still not brain washing

>>377219272
>You forcibly changing their mindset without their consent and them being aware of it.

How is that any different from prison rehabilitation?

>>377221061
>Pure evil villains can't exist
You must hate series like Star Wars, don't you?

>>377221576
Kaneshiro's dungeon felt pretty finished.

>>377221576
The finished the first two. But that kaneshiros and the rest were rushed mostly because of the fact that they were bland and because the save rooms no longer shimmered.

>>377221576
It was shit though, they made you do the same shit to progress 4-5 times and had the worst puzzle

>>377221576
All the dungeons feel fleshed out, the fuck are you guys on about? Each one brought new mechanics and gimmicks to the table that kept things feeling fresh, and they all got progressively longer.

>>377221069
2 hours of a 100 hour game is nothing, bud.
>>377221226
Yes, that's how Okumura thinks what his employees are. If you are too retarded to add 2+2, this game is too complicated for you

>>377221376
>wasn't that good
I'm not arguing quality of story, just the overall progression and structure.
>Progressing in 5 felt interesting and rewarding
But not because of Mementos shit.
>Also, kind of funny how you could only give me two examples
Two I remembered on top of my head. I even gave you an example from P5 that did things differently.

>Yes but how their story will end? What will they do now?
That has nothing to do with the progression, that's just the last rank.
>It really isn't because the problem itself only shows it's face after a while
You mean Rank 4/5
>Makes it easier for time management. You won't see me complaining
Even easier without Mementos missions. They made it actually harder because some bosses need story progression to unlock.

>Your whole reason for finding the confidant system formulaic can be applied to P3 and P4 as well.
Great, my argument is that they made it even MORE formulaic.

>>377221576
Another reason why Futaba is /mygirl/ and /bestgirl/

>>377221061
>Only because the villains were ridiculously evil.

So you're saying that if you had the power to alter society and reshape it, you wouldn't? Because most people would, the only people who'd say no are primarily people content with the state of things. The rest would, just with legislation and social conditioning because they don't have access to magic powers.

>>377221547
All you said was vague as shit that makes it sound like you don't know what you're talking about

>>377221773
>No shortcuts that you progressively unlock as you go through the palace like in the first two
>Don't actually perform a heist like you do in the first two
>Don't see distortions that are mentioned at the beginning and only present in the first two and Futaba's
>Don't have a similar speech after the fight that you do with Kamoshida and Madarame
You have a weird definition of finished.

>>377221919
>list the themes of the game
>list examples of how the gameplay relates to those themes
How is that vague exactly?

File: 1422912524865.png (186KB, 1088x687px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 1088x687px

>>377221919

>>377219267
I know three people that fit that description and they love this game and think Im the one with no taste cuz I think P5 is mediocre. People confuse style for quality and if theres one thing P5 has its style

>>377221919
I'm sorry you can't comprehend motifs, Anon.

I don't think the theme of 5 was inconsistent or anything. The whole game is based on "don't do or believe something just because an authority figure tells you to"

>>377221920
Kamoshida and Madarame both had very personal connections to the party, so it would make sense that the dialogue afterwards isn't elaborate.
I'm not sure what shortcuts you really need when you can fast travel to safe rooms.

I agree that it could have had a more heist-like feeling, but what specifically do you mean by distortions?

Odd how there is only 1 image in this thread besides the OP

>>377222143
>People confuse style for quality and if theres one thing P5 has its style
Pretty much this is the problema with /v/ right now.

They really confuse style with quality when is substance and good content what matters.

>>377221686
Because prison rehab dosent have a 100% success rate and completely change a person's personality

>>377222287

Because we have a shitty system.

>>377212372
>Explain to me how i just got trolled
>I've seen called retarded but it was never explained and diagnosed by a doctor.

your stupid op, that or another sony pony shitposting another persona thread when theres at least 3 others

>>377222246
>I'm not sure what shortcuts you really need when you can fast travel to safe rooms.
I agree. I've seen people bitch about how shortcuts are dropped after the first few palaces, but they're pointless anyway because of Safe Rooms.

You could argue that quick traveling to Safe Rooms hinders exploration and the game would be better without them or if it had some restriction on quick travel, but that's not how the game was designed.

>>377212809
You talking about how he was the snitch? That was obvious. The ruse cruise however was not.

File: 1374641915912.jpg (126KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 1280x720px

>>377212372

Any semblance of mystery? Thrown the fuck out by the SIU director. Seriously, what were they thinking?

>>377222246
Remember early on when Morgana mentions distortions in one's cognitions? You see them in Kamoshida, Madarame and Futaba's palaces but outside of this it's never brought up again and I found it strange. It's that blocky grey stuff (I would upload a picture but I can't).

As for safe rooms, those were a mistake and I think that their original goal was to make all the palaces like Kamoshida's so that when 'secured an infiltration route' that meant that you had unlocked so many shortcuts that you could easily run to the treasure but not have it be as trivial as just fast traveling to the safe room that's five feet away from the treasure.

Kamoshida and Madarame's palaces both clash with the design of the rest of them, I felt Kaneshiro's was a huge drop in quality and it never really recovered except for Sae's which was pretty good.

>>377219549
Because its hard to speak about mortality without a moral high ground because you end up looking like self righteous cunt with no self awareness

>>377222531
It's wierd knowing these 2 are a couple irl

I knew this would happen. Can't wait for persona 6 to come out and the majority of /v/ will say 5 was shit just like with persona 4

>>377222531

Because the old games never hid who the bad guys were.

>>377222628
>/v/ is one person

>>377212372
The most obvious answer is that the script is repetitive as hell. I noticed early on that almost every time a new concept is introduced, some variant of the following dialogue will play out:
>Morgana: Wait! This is [explains concept]. So basically [explains concept in different words]
>Ryuji: I don't get it, you're saying [explains concept a third time]?
>Morgana: You dummy, it's [explains concept a fourth time]

And then whenever a new party member is introduced, you get a quick re-explanation of every concept that the player clearly already understands by this point; mementos, the metaverse, castles, treasures, etc.

Not to mention every phone conversation in the game can be safely skipped without missing anything.
>Did we do the right thing?
>Will things work out?
>Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

You have the persistent Persona problem of characters not developing at all in the main story, since all their growth happens in confidants, and never shall the two intersect; any growth done in optional content can't be reflected in the main story, so it has to be kept minimal and is never referenced outside those ten scenes.

Some subtlety issues that all Japanese writing seems to suffer from; characters state their mindsets and personalities almost outright, twists are predictable tens of hours ahead of time, etc. This is probably more translation than actual writing, but it's still bad.

And finally, some of the characters are just introduced too late to really be developed; Haru is barely involved in the story, and most of the villains after Kamoshida are seemingly dropped in, taken care of, then quickly shuffled away without much fanfare. Even Shido gets almost no closure to his storyline after his dungeon, his confession basically mimicking Maradame's to a tee.

If I had to use a word for P5's story, I'd say inefficient. A better set of writers could do so much more with the word count they have. The story isn't bad, it's just poorly told.

>>377222702

A lot of 4chan is hilariously collectivist, so yes.

>>377221547
How is the P5 writing good when it doesn't know how to use it's 8 main characters past their own arcs?

Any fiction that relies on a hacker that bullshits her way through a story unrealistically cannot be considered "good" writing and shows how lazy they are to solve conflicts.

>>377221891
>I'm not arguing quality of story, just the overall progression and structure.
Give me quality over progression and structure anytime.

Example: P3.

P3's endgame was cool but the progression to get there? Pacing was ALL over the place
>But not because of Mementos shit.
But yes. Mementos is less boring than Tartarus and you feel like you're actively helping your friend rather than just listening their problems
>Two I remembered on top of my head. I even gave you an example from P5 that did things differently.
Two because there are only two, except for Ai and Naoto's, 4's links follows the same thing
>That has nothing to do with the progression, that's just the last rank.
It's the last few events. End of the 7th, 8, 9 and 10. Not like the Mementos request leads directly to rank 10
>You mean Rank 4/5
False. Uncle showed his ugly face in Sojiro's rank 2, the guy you Deal with for Tae's sake shows up before you can start her rank
>Even easier without Mementos missions.
That would be too easy already
>They made it actually harder because some bosses need story progression to unlock.
Never had this problem in my NG
>Great, my argument is that they made it even MORE formulaic.
Formulaic =\= bad and I disagree with you. They just added the Mementos mission, it's essentially the same thing as P3/P4 with one added layer

>Kamoshida is a shit when
>he worked his ass to be an olympic medal
>becomes a teacher
>school takes advantage of him to be famous
>Principal licks his balls
>other teachers licks his balls
>students licks his balls to get into the team
>parents licks his balls and tell their sons and daughters to do even more, so they can get an easier life in the sports world or whatever connections Kamoshida should have
>Kamoshida gives up and takes advantage of the situation because everyone is a cockroach and a bunch of fakes
>society creates a monster
>monster discipline students more
>they obey as dogs
>he starts doing worse and nobody gives a shit
>anyone could have stop this, especially any parent should, but the fame, money and future was more important than students being possible raped or abused
>Kamoshida is a shit

No, everyone was a shit, be adults or the students.
It even gets worse when Kamoshida confesses and then some students get advantage of that situation that they were actually "molested" when they wanted to appear on tv

Funny, because of all of this Kamoshida is actually the best part and had the most interesting palace of them all.

>>377222702
>Majority
I guess I could just say the vocal part of /v/. Those who enjoy the game will probably be too busy playing it to get involved. Hell I've seen many games I like get bashed here and ultimately it's just not worth the effort most of the time defending them. Especially against shitposters. I'd imagine a lot of people feel the same way

>>377222749
>This is probably more translation than actual writing
It's not, Japs are such autists that if you don't outright say how you feel, they assume you think just like them.

>>377220618
>has wonderful characters that are likable for the most part (Evidence: Waifu threads haven't stopped for literally a month)

AH WELL guess any masturbatory waifu wars thread is about greatest characters of all time and not because these fucks just love to post pictures of their waifus and argue about how other waifus suck day after day.

Your crew is just a bunch of people There's very little camaraderie or expression between them outside of text blurbs in Mementos. Say what you will about P4 but that game knew how to create the feeling that your party members were a team and got to know each other.

>>377222418
>but they're pointless anyway because of Safe Rooms.

But you're supposed to be thieves, breaking in and exiting quickly, they should have designed the rest of the dungeons like that instead of falling for the quick travel meme

add me to the screen cap

>>377221920
>No shortcuts that you progressively unlock as you go through the palace like in the first two
Saferooms
>Don't actually perform a heist like you do in the first two
Only the museum had a heist
>Don't see distortions that are mentioned at the beginning and only present in the first two and Futaba's
You see them everytime though?
>Don't have a similar speech after the fight that you do with Kamoshida and Madarame
Futaba had that. Kaneshiro, Okumura and Shido didn't for obvious reasons

>>377222907
I'm not too familiar with Japanese. I know they're very indirect about a lot of personal issues like love and financial problems, so I figured it was more a translation thing. My bad.

>>377220451
This nigga get's it

>>377222934
The fact that they post waifus means that they are attached to the characters. While there are the occasional threads about bland characters like Peach or Zelda based purely on their looks, most waifus tend to be decided based on personality, I think.

>>377223075

It's a cultural thing. It's also why stuff like hostess clubs exist, because of feelings of isolation.

>>377220618
I like the characters quite a bit but waifu threads haven't stopped for persona 3 and 4 and they've been out for ten years. Of course all the spin offs and re-releases have probably helped with that, but still

>>377212372

The plot and characters are great. The most people complain about when it comes to writing is that it's "Japanified". They converse in the English language but say stuff like "-chan" and what not. Or say Japanese names in a very American accent. If you're not autistic however, you can just enjoy the experience for what it is and be immersed. Or play with the fucking Japanese voiceovers. If you hate this game, you're probably a Nintentard.

>>377222983
This is what I hated the most about P5.

There was way less events with your party and the few that we had were mostly shit.

>firework festival get cancelled because of rain
>the whole fucking worthless boring hawaii trip
>operation babe 3.0 having no dialogue

I feel like they cut stuff on purpose for Persona 5: Crimson

>>377222605
The PT are self righteous though. They make their own justice

>>377222983
What about the hundred SoL segments of the game that don't take place in a dungeon?

Like going to Hawaii, studying together, have a celebration after each successful change of heart?
Why don't those count for anything? They take up hours of the game.

>>377220451
Scumbag also "brainwashed" to cause his crimes in the first place, making him a hypocrite.

When they turned party members into social links. They pretty much removed loads of characters interactions with each other. So pretty much EVERYTHING revolves around the MC.
Characters couldn't develop relationship with each other, ESPECIALLY when they have to account for MC '''''romance'''''

>>377222835
>Kamoshidafags exist
What the fuck

>>377223197
I would say that rather than contradicting my statement, that would only support that I feel 3 and 4 had well written characters too.

>>377223048
>Saferooms

This is meant to be an option, not the only thing. There is no excuse for not having shortcuts in the other palaces like this anon said>>377223003

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165KB, 1024x578px

>>377212372
How do you fuck up a wild-card antagonist foil to the player so much? It's like they tried to make him as shit as possible

>>377223240
I'm glad they don't have too many festivals/events honestly. It makes speeding through ng+ a chore.

>>377223353
P4 didn't have this problem.

>>377223427
You sure?

LMFAO

"good writing" yeah? Go and tell me that dialogue scene in the velvet room with the team was great writing when all it boiled down to the MC going every person "don't give up" and they all do a 180. That was the laziest motivation talk ever and yet again boils down to the MC

>>377223390
I think they did as well, but I don't think waifu wars are a result of that. It's been 20 fucking years and Eva waifu wars are still going on. You can't tell me the girls there are good characters in the respect that you would like to be closer to them

>>377222983
You are literally retarded
>>377223003
You could start from the beginning and makenyour way to the end through each Dungeon on the heist day If your autism desires it so
>>377223213
>If you hate this game, you're probably a Nintentard.
This

>>377223421
>reeeeee he's not a badass so the character SUCKS!

>>377223240
>Muh anime bullshit
I'm glad they cut some of that shit up. Makes the game less of a P4.2

>>377223213
>>377223628
These are the kind of posters /v/ needs fewer of to be any good at all.

>>377223318

>Hawaii

They barely did anything together. Also, they bullshitted Yusuke into it.

>Study together

Nothing much really happens in these apart from a bunch of groans all around

>Celebrations

Short scenes each

I'm not seeing where your hours claim comes from.

>>377223519
Im sure especially with P4 golden that added shit load of more stuff.

>>377212372
The villains are not engaging, the only one you feel as a threat is Kamoshida due to the amount of times he interacts with you. Kaneshiro's and Okamura are awful bland villains and in the case of Kaneshiro, fucking Makoto was a better antagonist than him.

Additionally making every fucking villain after Kamoshida a part of a conspiracy but not a main player felt contrived.

Also, the group is the most retarded of the P3-P5 groups. They literally asked Makoto to join them, someone who fucking blackmailed them to make her dirty work, after she revealed to have a background similar to them. It's Martha-tier level writing.

>>377220710
When tou try to present brainwashind as good you're already in "morally grey" territory the game just dosent want to piss the players off by making them even remotely bad, so they handwave away the fact rhat upur actions are qiestionable at best and absolutely repugnant especially when you realize the PT arent thieves they're auperheros

>>377223240
>the whole fucking worthless boring hawaii trip
I got a date with my waifu out of it. How was it bad?>>377223427

>>377223731
>I play anime game but hate anime trope aaaaaaah fuck you weebs

Oh yeah sometime I forgot that persona is literally mainstream normalfags shit now.

>>377219986
Nobody claimed Villains need sob story. All they need is where you can understand why Villains make certain decisions what lead them up to that point. Basically in the style of how you see politics turn everybody into assholes.

>>377223628
>You could start from the beginning and makenyour way to the end through each Dungeon on the heist day If your autism desires it so

I would prefer the shortcuts instead like they did early on

>>377222824
>Give me quality over progression and structure anytime.
Why not both?
>P3's endgame
We're talking SLs, not about whole games.
>That would be too easy already
You said Rank7 Mementos made it easier.
>4's links follows the same thing
Then too bad that they didn't try to improve on that.
>Uncle showed his ugly face in Sojiro's rank 2
Yeah, but his connection to Futaba becomes relevant later.
>Formulaic =\= bad
Well, I disagree.
>it's essentially the same thing as P3/P4 with one added layer
You mean with one added condition that needs to be in every SL. They should improve upon their systems not make them even more stale.

>>377223753
>Nothing much really happens
Oh you mean besides all the characters interacting with each other?
Fuck off, retard.

>>377223427
It did
>>377223353
Confidants are part of the story, I frankly don't get why people complain about them being S.links
>>377223741
>t.nitendtard