Why did ground zeroes set the dark theme so well while the phantom

>prevented from finishing your thing
>it sucks

weird

Sometimes I think he did originally want it to be that way, but chickened out. Mostly for merchandise stuff.

>>377207982
>have 3 years and $80 million to do whatever the fuck you want
>fuck it up
>retarded fanboys blame the company that gave you money instead

The opening was actually kino

>>377207806
>Why did ground zeroes set the dark theme so well while the phantom pain came in and completely destroyed it?
Because you can play Phantom Pain during the day

>>377208378
More like 6 years.

>>377207982
Konami wouldn't have had to step in if Kojima knew how to keep a schedule or a budget.

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>>377207806
Everything about GZ was perfect.

At this point, TPP has made me so god damn bitter that I legitimately believe GZ was made so good intentionally just so the crushing despair the fans would endure because of TPP would be even moreso by contrast.

>>377208378
Muh MGS2

>>377208523
I NO RIKE MUSIC ANYMORE
MAKE AGAIN

>>377208534
Thats the point

You were made to feel a phantom pain for a game that never will exist

>>377208534
>Everything about GZ was perfect.
>no roll
>movement is clunkier
>no day/night cycle or dynamic weather
>Camp Omega is a shoebox
>story doesn't exist, it's just a setup with no payoff
>last 20 minutes if you know what you're doing
>60$

It was a piece of shit and you're lying to yourself if you think it was good.

>>377208618
MGS5 at E3 soon, fellow rusefag.

>>377208618
Is that an actual thing Kojima said, or is it a retarded excuse made by fans?

>>377208450
Thwres something to this. The tone of many scenes is made or broken depending on the lighting amd the weather

Juat proves even more the open world was a mistake

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>>377208618
>the game was intentionally shit

>>377208650
>>no roll
You mean like rolling from side to side on the ground? Because you can do that, and you have to to get one of the patches.

>>377207806
What the fuck are you even talking about? TPP is already edgy as fuck, imagine if it tried to be as GZ on that regard. Gameplay-wise, it's the same as GZ on a bigger scale whether it's good or bad is up to your opinion

>>377208650
>no roll
>movement is clunkier
Making things up?

>no day/night cycle or dynamic weather
>Camp Omega is a shoebox
Those are good things. TPP suffered because of these things.

>story doesn't exist, it's just a setup with no payoff
What is mystique

>60$
Game was $30 when it came out.

>>377208818
The no roll thing is patently retarded but the movement in TPP is much smoother than GZ.

>What is mystique
A buzzword used to excuse plot holes when Kojima does it.

>Game was $30 when it came out.
That's only like $30 more than you should pay for a demo, what a steal!

>>377208818
>Making things up?
Go back and play it. It's clunkier. And yes, you can't do the roll thing when falling.

>Those are good things. TPP suffered because of these things.
>suffered
>from having varied wheater and time cycles
In what way?

>what is mystique
Not a story. There's no character development. Your base gets destroyed and that's it. It's like watching the first 5 minutes of a movie before the title appears.

>30$
it was $40

>>377208653
>>377208673
>>377208732

Its like you guys all forgot MGS2 and the raiden ruse

this is just the kind of man Kojima is

>>377207982
>implying any number of chapters could have fixed the mess that was TPP's story

Kojima is a hack, plain and simple.

>>377208994
>you can't do the roll thing when falling.
Yeah I put 77 hours into TPP and have no clue what you're talking about, real tragedy it allegedly wasn't included.

>>Those are good things. TPP suffered because of these things.
>>suffered
>>from having varied wheater and time cycles
>In what way?
The open world aspect ruined everything in the game.

>it was $40
I don't know if you're Canadian or something, but I paid $30. It was before I had a next gen system so I got the 360 edition, but I still ended up buying the xbone version and I don't ever remember it being more than $30.

>>377209001
>>377208545
like pottery

>>377209174
He's a Lucas, more accurately - working in a situation where other people can tell him "No that's stupid" he produces good work, but when given free reign and almost unlimited resources he produces bloated turds.

if u dont believe in the ruse............. i dunno what to tell u :)

-hk

>>377209206
>Yeah I put 77 hours into TPP and have no clue what you're talking about, real tragedy it allegedly wasn't included
So how can it be superior when control wise it's inferior?

>The open world aspect ruined everything in the game
Whoa, nice reading comprehension you got there buddy, What the fuck does day/night cycle and dynamic weather have to do with open world?

And no, it ruined nothing. It's just gave you more freedom to approach everything. It's not a goddamn RPG, the open world isn't there for you to explore it.

>>377209308
show me one instance of Raiden appearing in a trailer or screen shot before the release of MGS2

did you forget they even showed big shell gameplay with Snake as the player character?

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>>377208564
>Keep telling them to make new songs
>Game goes over budget and isn't finished
>The music that kojima did approve that was meant to be in the game is then released a year later in "the lost tapes"
Was kojima a master dumbman?

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It still hurts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=494uunKrvLQ

>>377209280
>when given free reign
He wasn't given free reign, and he certainly didn't produce a bloated turd. If you're so fucking up your own ass that you actually believe TPP was bad in any way, then I suggest you stop playing games and go back to watching literal shit like MGS4.

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>>377209395
>So how can it be superior when control wise it's inferior?
Are you fucking autistic? Can't understand sarcasm? I'm saying you're full of shit you mouth breathing retard.

>What the fuck does day/night cycle and dynamic weather have to do with open world?
Those two things would not be necessary if it was not open world you god damn moron.

>the open world isn't there for you to explore it.
Yep, it's just there. It just exists. Took up huge amounts of time and money to create that should have been used elsewhere. And you don't need to have an open world to have alternate approaches, like Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory and the early Hitman games.

You aren't a very smart person.

>>377208732
I'm afraid it's been... nine years.

>>377209535
How much do you think a song costs, retard?

>>377209174
This. The core problem with TPP doesn't get fixed by adding new content.

>>377209697
What's the core problem?

kojimbotards on /v/ now unironically praise both GZ and 4 as good games and not as the tech demo and shitty movie that they actually are

>b-but muh konami

>>377209605
>Producer from MGS, MGS2 and Snake Eater is gone
>series turns to shit
Kojima needs a filter or he goes off the deep end.

>>377209679
How much do you think it costs? Got a number? Ok, now multiply that by 30 and you might have close to what it costs by the time you factor in licensing, recording etc.

>>377209535
>>The music that kojima did approve that was meant to be in the game is then released a year later in "the lost tapes"
That music's all in the game you stupid faggot.

>>377209738
Bad writing.
Pointless open world/Bad level design.
Overreliance on tapes.
No emphasis on boss fights.

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>>377209743
>implying we don't know that mgs5 is filler

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>>377209637
>Are you fucking autistic? Can't understand sarcasm? I'm saying you're full of shit you mouth breathing retard.
I'm the retard when you don't even know that you can roll while falling to avoid damage? Retard.

>would not be necessary
Actually, they do, seeing how the behaviour of guards changes based on them.

>It just exists. Took up huge amounts of time and money.

Not really. It's just wilderness and deserts. Even niche shit like Nier Automata can afford that.

>and you don't need an open world to have alternate approaches

You need in this case. Most places you infiltrate are outdoors locations.

>You aren't a very smart person
The ironing.

>>377209847
>implying I implied that wasn't the case

Still a better game than GZ and 4 by a huge margin my good man

How much denial is there going to be from Kojidrones when Survive turns out to be a better game than TPP?

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>>377209847
What's his name again?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZY7QCBMWoE

>>377207806
Because Ground Zeroes understood that stealth games thrive in smaller, more enclosed environments. Stealth games should always be more puzzle than action sandbox, in my opinion. Finding out how to get from point A to B is a process of using your knowledge of the level, your equipment, and your skill.

In TPP, much of the difficulty and tension is self-imposed. You force yourself to give up on using a certain tool, you give yourself a no-kill limitation. Both games are sandboxes, but GZ ultimately comes off as being the better game because it still allowed exploration and experimentation without giving up its tight level traversal.

>>377209832
>Bad writing
Staple of the series. If anything it's better than the previous ones. The dialogue in 3 was atrocious.

>Pointless open world
Immersion. Freedom to do other shit before going to the main objective. You're not even forced to walk through the open world.

>Bad level design
kek. OKB Zero, Nova Braga Airport, Mfinda Oilfield are all better than Camp Omega.

>Overreliance on tapes

Thank fucking Christ. Now I can play the game and listen to conversations at the same time.

>no emphasis on boss fights

So? That doesn't make it bad. It's just personal preference.

Open world shit really hurt the game. The main story wasn't long enough and felt rushed and the majority of the entire game you were forced to spend on a fucking desert doing pointless shit that got old after couple minutes.

They should've made the game linear and add the open world as some meta game thing that wouldn't intervene the progress of the story.

>>377210127
I'll give you a (you) just because you wasted time writing this post.

>>377210127
>Freedom to do other shit before going to the main objective.
List anything that can't also be done in missions, other than "Drive aimlessly through barren environment."

>>377210209
>have no argument
>I'll pretend he's baiting! That'll show him!
Classic.

>>377210329
If you weren't baiting then you are clinically retarded, my man.

Ground Zeroes was a level.
The Phantom Pain is an open world.
there's your problem.

>>377210409
>can't handle someone having a different opinion than him
>I'll just call him clinically retarded, that'll show him
Keep em going, you sure are a smart little guy.

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Because The Phantom Pain is supposed to be a giant fuck you to anyone who wanted a by the numbers dark revenge story.

The message of the game is that you shouldn't chase payback, because you won't get back the things you've already lost. Revenge is never as sweet and satisfying as its often painted, the most likely outcome is that you'll just end up sacrificing more; which is exactly what happens in The Phantom Pain. Nobody in the game has a happy ending. When you think about Kojima's earlier themes and the title of the game itself the actual message becomes pretty obvious.

>>377210532
You're talking to the wrong people here, friend. Metal Gear "true fans" are the most idiotic fanbase on Earth.

>>377210008
I was pretty much responsible for the resurgence of that maymay shortly before MGS V released because I was so excited I posted dozens of those names in the VG hype thread because I had nothing else I wanted to do but play MGS V

The disappointment during, specifically, chapter 2 when I realised just how unfinished the game really was was devestating

>>377208758
>>377208818
>>377208917
>>377209206
By roll he means action diving off of a height to a lower level. In TPP when you do this Snake tucks into a roll and transitions into whatever stance you were in when you dove. In GZ, diving off of a height causes a weird graphical glitch of snake trying to stand mid fall.

>>377210532
The message could have been only stronger if BB Boss had chased that vengeance and it would have cost him his humanity.
Also, the game itself trivializes its supposed message by accepting the epic FOB invasion PvP retaliations as par for the course gameplay.

>>377211047
THAT was your fucking issue? That's an aesthetic, it looks bad but affects or limits your control in no way.
You were right about the "clunkier" movement though. GZ was missing the slowest movement modifiers and had a huge deadzone in the analog input due to this.

>>377211646
I wasn't the guy who made the initial post, but he is right to a degree. While not useful in many situations, being able to roll off of a fall helps with fluidity of movement and was overall a QOL improvement in TPP. That, along with what you listed, as well as the improved cover system in TPP makes infiltration feel a lot smoother.

>>377209174
actually htere's plenty of content cut because konami decided to not give enough time to kojimbo.
Chapter 2 wasn't supposed to be a replay from chapter 1 missions.
It was different missions and involved other character like Chico and you would fight Eli on the sahelantrophus in Africa.
They had the dioalogue and artword set to make the cutscenes.
So yeah, more content could make the game grater.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B4JIHh5Jqk

>>377211904
>konami decided to not give enough time to kojimbo.
7 Y E A R S
Y
E
A
R
S

>>377210914
I still remember the gnawing, deep feeling of disappointment when I saw the completely recycled missions. TPP could have been so much more.

>>377211954
Where does this seven years meme come from? TPP wasn't even considered until after PW came out. Add on the time to develop Fox Engine, and development time is less than the five years between PW and TPP's release.

>>377212094
Oh sorry man, it only took him 5 years to make half a game.

HACK

>>377211904

>So yeah, more content could make the game grater.

It was already pretty grating.

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>>377207806
TPP needed a proper story mode if it wanted to carry that GZ tone:
No side ops
Not able to just repeat missons
Having buddies and equipment decided for you
Paz's scenes inserted into main story

All the base development, weapons development and side ops stuff should just be there as extras like VR training or Snakes Tales in the older games.

>>377212145
>half a game
hehe you're so funny what a meme!

>>377212741
We use capital letters in English, Hideo.

I'm still playing through TPP, though I keep taking long breaks from it.

GZ was exactly what I wanted from a current gen MGS. It's kind of sad that I enjoyed a tiny teaser game more than the full scale game it was teasing.

Open world really didn't work well for MGS. I never gave a shit about any of the environments because it was too big, too empty and there was nothing meaningful to do in any place aside from tranq or kill everyone and loot resources. MGS really shines when there is an enclosed level which has been carefully designed.
In GZ it felt really important to hide bodies well because a discovery could fuck everything up. In TPP it doesn't matter because I can see almost everyone from wherever I am and I can just airdrop in more ammo and silencers if I use everything up.

It sucks because I really want to finish TPP, but it just got boring after a while.

>>377207806
Why did the missions feel better designed than anything in the phantom pain?

>>377209535
it gets even better
>license songs from after the in-game time period
>game theory: is tpp not set in 1984?
>"what a fucking genius"

>>377213262
You should try the Infinite Heaven mod. Decrease your health, improve the enemies' sight, random patrols on the map etc. All that while turning your whole HUD off. Good times.

>>377207806
After TPP I can't play GZ, it's way too clunky and awkward :(

>>377213348
Scoring constraints meant you couldn't just rock n roll through each mission.

>>377208732
>kojima simply forgot how to make a game good
or
>le big evil publisher pulled the plug on le poor talented genius
come on man, stop being a drone.

>>377213396
That sounds pretty cool. I wasn't aware there were any mods. Is there one that gets rid of the slow motion thing when you get spotted?

Actually there's probably just a setting for that in options.

Obviously TPP was actually a better game, but GZ gave a false impression of what was to come. The best part of MGS is infiltrating narrow paths, finding a way to get around an enemy to proceed instead of going after the enemy. There weren't enough bases of Camp Omega's quality in the game, everything is spread apart and open with a few exceptions like the two dense jungle areas that were obviously more handcrafted. It was still a good game though, and fucking around in the open world was fun. Maybe the next one shouldn't be so open, MGS is at its best when it's open yet closed, like MGS1 and 2, and 3 to a lesser extent. More like Metroid kind of open instead of GTA or Elder Scrolls.

>>377210532
>>377211435

There's no real drawback from chasing down Skullface, the game ends while the plan to go after Cipher and Zero gets put on infinite hold while Kaz keeps yappering about spies in the base and you're obsessed hecking off to disarm nukes
I can't imagine how disarmament can bring anything new to the table, but Diamond Dogs are not what was advertised.

>>377211868
>>377211047
I much prefer the run animation and camera movement in GZ though, feels much more fluid.

I entirely concur with the fact that GZ was PERFECT when you take price out of the equation. If they'd made TPP like GZ but 15x longer it would have also been perfect.

>>377208534
TPP really killed any love I had for videogames, I haven't felt like playing any games after playing TPP. It hurts just thinking about how hyped I was for it..

>GZ
>actually try to do the missions efficiently because that's all there is to do
>TPP
>spend 2/3 of the game tranquilizing entire bases and fultoning everything that isn't bolted down
>spend the final 1/3 wishing you had just played the game instead of wasting your time

>>377213946
>>377207806
https://youtu.be/gJgbjGqfZzg
No stupid mechanics which give you a dozen ways to accomplish the same thing, completely wasting development time. Just pure operator goodness. I still replay GZ, doing each mission a little better each time and it's still fun, sometimes I load TPP and I just realise there's nothing to do, there's no big story moments to enjoy time and time again, no new game, camo doesn't do shit. Buddies are ultimately uninteresting and they all just do basically the same things (I would much rather have had a friendly DD solider instead of quiet, DD, the robot .etc) You never interact with the series' big characters. Ocelot doesn't do shit, Huey is a simpering waste of a character. I enjoy the environments but there's no logic to the map and there really needed to be a 3rd map (which was cut). The stupid choices and time spent on things which are ultimately irrelevant is absurd.

>>377208534
TPP made me quit video games for a good year out of massive dissapointment

>>377214916
>needed to be a 3rd map (which was cut).

Where would it have been though, do you/anyone know or is it just known that it was cut

>>377215061
3rd map would've been the eli mission at the end of the game, alternatively there was also talk of a return to cuba apparently.

>>377215061
>>377207806
Also, something that is clearly true, once revealed by an anon who purportedly worked at Konami, is that mother base was a lot more customisable, and didn't originally have the huge bridges necessitated by the PS3 and X360. You can see this is true because in the earliest trailers, there's a short shot of helicopters flying over mother base where you can clearly see that all the base facilities are bunched together, completely unlike how they are in the finished game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfn4UBmhfAM
2:08 in, you can see the medical platform and RnD platform immediately next to one another.

>>377210127
>open world
Ooh look I can extract soldiers who can develop better weapons so I can... extract more soldiers? Developing guns is nowhere near as interesting as finding them during the game like in every other MGS before PW. The whole metagame was completely shit and it destroyed the core experience because it makes you think you're having fun briefly until you're 50 hours in and you realize that was all there was and now there's nil replay value, absolute nil.

leave it to /v/ to be so fucking contrarian that they prefer a $20 demo to a $60 full game

>>377207806

>someone gives you 5 years
>80 million dollars
>a whole team of coders, artists and designers
>a whole new cutting edge game engine
>fuck it up

How much of a hack is Kojimbo?

He is the reason why we all know that two bombs weren't enough.

>>377208534
It was a decent game but could have been better The gameplay was actually fun -- at least until it got old.

>>377209738
That most of the missions are fluff.
>blow up this convoy
>blow up this convoy v2

>>377207806
>first part is really dark, features audible torture against a female, POW's with bolts in their ankles, and Skull Face watching as Chico fucks Paz
>Konami freaks the fuck out, says you can't have this shit as they want to sell it to as many people as possible
>remove all the dark shit, remove the characterization from Skull Face, lose hope in project and leave Konami

You can tell from GZ that the tone was supposed to be very different from the final product.

>>377214060
what a melodramatic faggot

I was ultimately dissapointed with MGSV but it was still a very fun game that i'm glad I bought

make a GroundZer0 6 player survival mode mod pls

>>377218338
Skullface was a proper villain in GZ

>>377219412
I think this is how pretty much everyone feels about it. The gameplay itself was pretty damn fun and by far the best in the series, but it was missing the story and charm that drives the rest of the games

>>377207806
2 things
They pulled the plug on a game that needed a decent amount of touch up, not to mention that it was missing a significant portion of the game's story

Kojimbo is a fucking hack

>People are SO jaded over MGSV that they genuinely think GZ was better.
>Even though thats objectively and measurably false.
>B-but we didn't go nuclear as BB
>M-muh atmosphere that I never got in TPP because I have a selective memory and never infil'd at night because I'm garbo.

You'll never not be stupid as fuck if you genuinly think GZ was a better game. TPP gets so much undeserved hate but this is by far the most absolute foolish form of it.

>>377219898
I couldn't even finish it once I got partway into Africa. Tried to revisit it later with a different perspective. Couldn't get pas Afghanistan. It's just not that good

>>377220269
Quit blaming the game for your garbage taste.

I've been playing the MSG games for the first time, I'm now at what I'm pretty sure is the end of 3. They've been fun but honestly I was somehow expecting better seeing how everyone seems to love this series. I'm getting V with GZ and all dlc included in the mail tomorrow and I'll finish 4 and then start playing it. Didn't really spoil myself but I already know the story is disappointing, I'm just hoping the gameplay is fun. Honestly, the cutscenes are starting to become too fucking much for me anyway so it doesn't exactly bother me if the latest entry is more about playing than watching.

Snake is cute.

>>377217925
This shit just keeps happening, FFXV was the same. It got so bad they had to kick the guy off and make a new team to scavenge whatever meager assets were actually already done and pack it as a game. TPP was simply packed as was.

Giving people "unlimited" resources for a project just because they had good projects before is a terrible decision. Obviously not how a good videogame gets done.

>>377218338
>>Konami freaks the fuck out, says you can't have this shit as they want to sell it to as many people as possible

Shit that never happened.

>>377220241
At lease GZ was designed

>>377220303
Right. Not enjoying destroy the convo 3 in empty boring outposts is my bad taste showing.

>>377220484
It was a real groundbreaker at the time and it continued to innovate throughout the years. We really didn't have anything like it before. When MGS3 came out I think splinter cell was making a big splash so a split was formed which bolstered each side to it's respective series.

Basically MGS was a revolutionary series to us cunts who were around at the time. You can call it nostalgia goggles if you want, but the context is important.

GZ kept in line with the series we fell in love with and TPP diverged from it.