How can a billion dollar company not learn from their past mistakes.

>Here we are

with problems WoD had solved, and new different problems?

Activision combined with Vivendi. A game that brought in over a billion dollars wasn't even given an appropriate budget.

It doesn't help that normies bought into Hearthstone and Overwatch, dooming the future of WoW.

>>376867278
They grew a population of shit-eaters and now can't get rid of them. Game is not fixable because no matter what they do, someone will be throwing a fit.

>>376867581
They should have stuck to pleasing their core players.

>>376867278
Here we are what?

>>376867732
They should have, but most of them left the game now and have been replaced by shit-eaters that like pandas/want to be carried/hate leveling&grinding/etc. It is just so completely fucked that it can't be fixed.

>>376867278
i thought the questing was fun but class dens (or whatever they're called) were just garrisons in disguise, and the legendary weapons was a stupid idea. it felt like i was playing a single player game.

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>mfw the only thing to do when you log in is farm fucking artifag power

MMORPGs need some sort of rebirth and new ideas in general

I predict VR will be the next step at some point in the future

>WoD had no content
>Legion has content
I'd say they learned from their past mistakes.

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>>376868240
> Ability pruning because of Tablet
Yeah, they sure did learned.

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>>376868436
>complete massive faggot with blue hair
>proud of playing with a tablet
>game dev

Stick a fork in her. She's done.

>>376868175
VR can't even get over the movement and motion sickness problem. Not gonna happen.

>>376868175
VR is literally "show your grandma how cool this is-tier", it' a shitty fad that will only be used for porn.

>>376867927
worse part is those same people don't want Blizzard to make Legacy servers even though it doesn't affect them

>>376868841
> it doesn't affect them
It does. Who will pay for the next expansion then, nigger?

>>376868240
>timegating fetch quests is "content"

>>376869027
They still get their mounts and whatever else retailfags spend money on. Blizzard makes more money on mounts than subscriptions.

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>/v/ fails to understand that a game is a product
>/v/ fails to understand ActiBlizzard is a for-profit company
>/v/ fails to understand that making a game good is always second to being profitable, and that the changes they make are to cater to the widest paying playerbase, not to make it a "good game"

pottery

>>376868841
>>376869205
Can't sell legacy server for $49.99+15monthly or sell mounts/pets in them. It is all about money.

>>376869205
You saying like new expansion costs 1$. How much is the price in the beginning? About 40$? So, 40*4000000(or how many people will buy it) and you have 160.000.000

>>376869432
They don't have to develop shit either and in any case the fact that they are giving away SC1 for free and making a paid remaster proves you wrong.

Can someone complaining about "no content" please explain to me what the content is missing compared to previous expansions? Is this some sort of meme?

The only thing there has ever been is raids, dungeons, and rep grinding.

>>376869421
it's not that I fail to understand, it's that after loving blizzard for around 15 years, i am disapoint with them

>>376869621
Have you tried to play it yourself? Once you got 110lvl, you have no shit to do.

>>376867278
>Have an entirely new development team every expansion
>Expect consistency in quality
Game's 12 years old. The reality is there's just so possibly way for it to be good anymore.

>>376869579
I would be all for playing legacy if they did make, it but they won't for various reasons. Not only will they not do it, but they also made the precedent of closing private server if it gets even remotely popular.
Basically what I'm saying is liking old MMOs is suffering and situation can't be fixed.

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>>376869708
Mkay, Legion is bad and I stopped playing because of the direction its taking

But you're so horrendously wrong its almost painful. The problem with Legion is that there is TOO MUCH to do.

>>376869708
Okay, ignoring the fact that there is way more to do than previous expansions, how is that different from every other expansion and every other MMO?

>>376869815
Ignore the questfags.

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They fixed WoD issues, but then made other retarded design choices.

>>376869815

yes and no. There's lots to do, but it all is about grinding resources, artifact power, gold and reputation

never before has logging on and doing what you wanted to do actually been a 'waste' of time, as every second you're not grinding AP is 'wasted' time

>>376869815
> there is TOO MUCH to do
Are you just a drone or you got your payment for the posts like this?

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>>376869815
>there is TOO MUCH to do.

>>376869931
>every second you're not grinding AP is 'wasted' time

But that's the opposite of how it is. Since you get more AP by waiting until max knowledge it's quite literally a waste of time to grind AP. By the time you have max knowledge you'll be able to get all the relevant points in less than 1 day.

>"I MUST GRIND AP!"

Unless you are in one of the top raiding guilds in the world, you don't need to grind shit and you sure as shit don't need to have Concordance when ToS opens.

>>376869815
>TOO MUCH to do
>boy i just cant find the time in the day, everyday, to repeat the same fucking world quests over and over and over and over, this game is amazing

>>376869983
>>376869996

I didn't say it was good or different content, but Legion brings too much to do. There is a very good reason (other than titanforging) as to why Mythic raiders are fatigued like never before.

You need to be grinding M+ constantly. You need to be doing every raid available at every difficulty.

AP / Legendary grinding means that you're basically never done.

>>376870084
If you raided Mythic at all, you'd know that it was designed around maxed out AP. You needed to be grinding the shit out of it for maximum chances.

>By the time you have max knowledge you'll be able to get all the relevant points in less than 1 day.

HORSESHIT.

>>376870185
Notice how I never said it was good, and I even said that I quit, you illiterate cretin?

>>376870192
Repeating same action over and over again is NOT a content.

Anyone else kind of like the Chinese UD model(no bones) better?

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>>376870371
Forgot pic

>>376870192
>>By the time you have max knowledge you'll be able to get all the relevant points in less than 1 day.
>HORSESHIT.

You realize max knowledge will be 50 times more AP than right now, right? Also, every point only gives you 0.1% damage after 52, full points will be like... 5% extra damage total. If you grind your tits off you'll probably be doing 1% more damage than someone who only logs in for raid.

You don't even know what you're talking about.

>>376870359
I never said it was.

>>376870454
Nope! Quit this Diablo 3 MMO a while ago.

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>>376870437
>chinks boil dogs alive
>bones in a video game go too far

>>376870454
You are fucking retarded if you think doing more damage isn't crucial in WoW/MMOs. It is literally all these games are based around.

>>376869421
Oh yeh dumbfuck that's why sub numbers have been in decline since wrath and they dont even publish their quarterly numbers anymore.

>>376870617
launch Cata was actually the highest point then they started dropping not too long after release

>>376870617
WoW's profits are in growth right now.

no matter how much content an MMO pumps out the power users (read: no-life virgins) will simply expand their hours to do it as fast as possible and then moan that there's nothing to do

meanwhile the one hour a day casuals never even see half the shit so the returns for blizzard are diminishing

it's no surprise they pander to the people who are actually capable of being satisfied

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>>376870609
This is what grinding 865,841,000,000,000 (yes, trillion) AP gives you over having 52 traits. It's almost nothing unless you're an autismo going for world first in which case you deserve to die.

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>>376867278
Because you niggers will eat it up anyway. Just like how Overwatch is just as trash as Blunderborn yet Blizzdrones jizz all over it.

>>376867565
But Blizzard and Activision bought themselves out from under vevendi like, two years ago.

>>376870932

32k dps is a lot of dps anon

>>376870185
Did you even read his post?

>>376871065
It's 5% which is the gap if you didn't even play and someone else grinding 24/7 for a month.

A more realistic gap between someone grinding 24/7 and someone who raids once a week is probably more like 2%-2.5%

>>376870932
Enjoy losing your mythic spot to a faggot that did grind it.

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Since when 5% is SMALL difference in MMO?

>>376867732
Why? Even if they never went into the pandering direction in TBC/WotLK with flying and easier raids, they've grew so much because of that decision to pander to normies at this point, that the amount of money they got could never be matched if they pandered to the core

>5% is nothing
Smells like LFR in here

>>376870176
I'm not even grinding AP at all, just logging on, doing my dailies some mythic+ and nighthold each week and I only need 400mil ap to Concordance anymore.

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>tfw guild is completely dead until tomb of sarg comes out because we dont have enough people for mythic and heroic is on farm

>tfw nighthold for another month and a half because blizzard are cocksuckers and don't give a fuck about the 10 man raiding guild they exterminated

>>376868240
When it first hit, the expansion had way more content than WoD. But now with this Legionfall patch, it just feels lacking again.

The only way to fix WoW at this point would be to make a new game from scratch

>>376868175
MMORPGs need to move away from the idea that they need to have targetting based combat and skill rotations. I'd say that when WoW (and after that, the clones) die out, the next big MMO thing will focus on perma/lose shit on death and DayZ type of player interaction where every interaction is a risky encounter where you must decide do you come out from the shadows because you wanna team up and that would help you alot, or dont risk it since you could just die

>>376871487

Dark Age of Camelot is a thing still

>>376867732

They should have stuck to good game design

>>376870846
Can I get a source (numbers, not a comment) on that

>>376871297
Maybe if you're trying to get world first, otherwise no one will give a shit. The only way to even tell how many points a person has in their weapon is to make them show a screenshot.

>>376871559
>The only way to even tell how many points a person has in their weapon is to make them show a screenshot.

lol

>>376871524
But no RPG can become a thing before WoW dies.

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>>376869815
>there is TOO MUCH to do
Jesus Christ, that was the same complaint with MoP and we got shitty WoD because of that.

>>376871368
B-but the number of players have diminished.

>>376867278
MMOs are dead. They have gone the way of the RTS. Why don't people play or develop RTS anymore? People simply don't want to play them -- too time consuming. MMOs have the extra handicap of being too expensive and lengthy to develop.

>>376871559
With your mentality I can tell you are just a middle-of-the-pack shitter. Progressing in mythic raids and even pushing high tier m+ requires all the effort that players can put it in. After playing MMOs for years, I honestly don't know how you can enjoy not trying to be as good as you can be, but you do you and enjoy yourself.

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>playing WoW when all the WoW clones are now better games because Blizzard thought they were untouchable and got lazy

kys

>>376869815
>I want to be able to do everything! I also have very little time to play.
This is the problem with modern mmos

>>376867278
>le return to form meme
WoW is shit

>>376871816
>I honestly don't know how you can enjoy not trying to be as good as you can be, but you do you and enjoy yourself.

It's not enjoyable to be the best at a shit game that isn't fun

turned all my wow tokens into blizzbucks and uninstalled the other day

honestly one of the best and easiest improvements to my life in a long time

I'd like to know what problems Legion currently has that everyone dislikes. We can have a civil argument besides >greentexting the problems.

>>376867430
the game is permanently tainted with work order/follower shit, they will never give up that shitty mobile app the interns made

>>376872017

t. blizzard employee

>>376872017

It's boring.

>>376871816
I raid 1 night a week and parse 80-90 percentile in Mythic, don't really care about anything else. Raiding 6 nights a week and pushing isn't harder than going 1 night a week and taking it slow. It's just pathetic and a waste of time to push.

>>376871816
>but you do you and enjoy yourself.
Oh I am, by not playing this game. Once i saw this, and other MMO's were nothing but a carrot on a stick to get you to the next expansion pack when all your hard work and effort is made obsolete 5 minutes in, i stopped caring about being "top of the chain".

>>376867278
WoW devs are bipolar retards

>You hated dailies in MoP? Here have NO CONTENT AT ALL in WoD
>Oh, you didn't like having nothing to do after 2 weeks in WoD? Here are multiple endless grinds that you can NEVER EVER finish! Have fun goy!

They can't understand moderation in any way.

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Is the rollercoaster balance any less awful now that they added the AP tomes? Because I always though that the biggest problem with AP washow much it fucked you over when trying to switch specs or classes after your class got nerfed into the ground. Didn't help that the dumpster fire they called the legendary system made the problem 1000X worse.

>>376870503
>there is TOO MUCH to do
>I NEVER SAID IT WAS CONTENT DUDE
what the fuck? stop being retarded

>>376872071
Fair enough, I unsubbed too because the content is lacking. I guess I was trying to start and argument with people who said the previous expansions were beter when they weren't.

do you think blizzard is making a new MMO from scratch with all the knowledge of what went wrong with titan?

>>376872017
They brought over the D3 director to be the lead designer for Legion and you can feel it.
Everyone hated D3.

>>376872132

None of the expansions were good. Vanilla was the best the game has ever been, and even it was plagued with issues.

>>376872226
No it wasn't that was straight garbage shit. Get to your shitty elysium server and farm some boars with your autistic and chinese community.

>>376872017
Somebody please post that blue-hair faggot pic here.

>>376872017
endgame is a fucking repetitive snooze fest that's not engaging at all

>>376872213
They brought over Jay Wilson? Fuck that loser!

>>376869815
You mean like grind artifact power and then grind some more artifact power and then maybe go run a dungeon to grind some more artifact power?

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Does anyone know where I can find the old Unknown II video with sound? Every video I find the sound is removed due to copyright.
Also if you don't know what 'Unknown II' is you are a retailfag and should kill yourself.

>>376871848

Name one

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>>376872310
>oh no i can't meme my arguments away
You're fat neckbeard ass doesn't look any better I bet.

>>376872115
It isn't that bad. It's only an issue if you reroll and want to get to 42 traits in multiple weapons quickly.

I leveled my Druid, have about a total of 50 hours played at 110 and have one weapon at 44 traits, another at 42 and a third at 35. This is with being lazy and not doing all my Mythics and raids.

>>376872168

Blizzard will never make an MMO. Why would they? The amount of time & effort it takes to make an MMO is insane, and it's not near the cash show shit like Hearthstone and Overwatch are.

>>376872132
TBC had the best endgame by far, you were never lacking content during that time, they should go back to attunements and having to progress through the different raids rather than just going straight into the one that'll give you the highest ilvl, completely nullifying the raid that preceded it

>>376867278
Legion is alright. WoD was shit. Cata Was alright/etc. The thing that has made WoW shit is the community that started to encroach right around the time the south park episode aired. Not going to say it was anything's fault. I think it was just that the community that made the game great during Vanilla and TBC was getting older and things and had to put it down. That community has been replaced by what we have now. The younger crowd, those born in the late 90's and early 2000s. Simply put, theyre shitheads. There is no sense of community anymore. Unless they are your close friends, the other players in the game are simply there for them to use and fuck over for their own benefit. No one socializes outside of their little circlejerk discord channels. And most people literally refuse to do anything unless its with their small tight-knit group of friends. Carry selling is something that was always an option. Anyone could have done it at any point in the game's history. Yet now it is pretty much rampant in the game. Everyone is tripping over each other trying to fuck over the community by "carrying" people instead of forcing them to meet people and learn the game and work towards a goal. They do it so they can make gold to raid with their tight-knit group of friends that are complete assholes to anyone not in that group.

TL;DR. WoW isnt shit, the community is shit. And the development teams who have been working on the game since MoP are aware of this. The latest team (Ion and the gang) are basically designing the game to suit their own interests because they know that nothing they do will fix the fuck awful community.

>>376872403
No U

>>376872282

not an argument

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>>376867278
>tfw haven't liked WoW since Wrath until Legion came out
>No idea if it really has to do with Illidan, or not but was having great fun
>starting to slow down though, it's okay because
>still playing FF14 and buying it's xpac next month

I play MMOs off and on though, the hardcore raid endgame shit was stuff I only ever attempted to do as a teen.

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pic related

the superior expansion made by people who at least care a little (just a little)

>>376872451
>WoW isnt shit

But it is

>>376867732

Normies have been their core players since at least wrath.

>>376872337
Yes, literally Jay Wilson.

>>376869815
>add in quest to kill 100000000000000000000000 mobs
>reward is increased damage
>WOOOOOOOOOW THERES ALWAYS SOMETHING TO DO I CAN ALWAYS KILL THESE MOBS SO FURTHER DOWN THE LINE I GET MORE DAMAGE

>>376872168
No

They're coasting with WoW until it becomes feasible to make it entirely F2P

>>376872407
It was pretty bad at launch and the shitty balanced fucked over some people I was raiding with. Namely the hunters when NH hit and feral when they got beat into the ground.

>>376872626
Yeah no.

>>376872626
>writes a sensible post explaining faults in the community
>BUT IT IS DA SHIT :DD
not him but you should definitely kill yourself

>>376872823
I gut you in your sleep

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>>376867278
Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about WoW anymore. Their class designer plays WoW on a fucking tablet. They see more potential in Overwatch as a franchise for the next decade and put their A team on that. I'm hoping for an eventual lore reset one day but it'll never come. Blizz only keeps WoW around for easy shekels.

>>376867278
People didn't like the grindy garrison stuff I know lets put the Diablo 3 team on this expansion and make it more grindfest.

>>376872823

explaining the faults in the community doesn't excuse the faults in the game itself, you brainlet. Learn2logic

>>376872683
But didn't he quit blizzard before legion came out? Not to say he couldn't have worked on it, but i doubt his contributions were a fraction as large as he is.

http://www.pcgamer.com/jay-wilson-former-diablo-3-game-director-is-leaving-blizzard/
>Wilson's time at Blizzard wasn't without controversy. He took heat for Diablo 3's real-money auction house, despite sounding in the pre-release days as though he viewed it primarily as a player-positive service rather than a profit-making venture. But he acknowledged at GDC 2013, a year after Diablo 3 came out, that the auction house “really hurt the game,” a comment he made just a few months after leaving the Diablo 3 team to work on Project Titan, the canceled MMO that eventually morphed into Overwatch. He also has an “Additional Design” credit on the World of Warcraft expansion Warlords of Draenor.

>>376872689
Yea it's still better than having literally nothing to do even if you want to.

>>376873006

Why is that the only alternative, fuckwit?

>>376872747
This. I entirely expect the next expansion to kick off their buy to play model, while introducing more cash shop items.

>>376867732
Won't matter they'll ignore them and listen to the new generation of wow players have you seen the forums these guys literally suck Blizzards ass no matter what stupid thing they do.

>>376869421
>cater to the widest paying playerbase
>More people than ever quiting with no new players to stabilize.
Like potery.

>>376871848
Name one (1) WoW clone that's actually even halfway decent.

>>376872990
Ah, you're right. Still, his influence can be felt. Legion copied a lot of D3 gearing elements. The world quest system is a straight up copypaste, too.

>>376873084
Because of there isn't infinite progression then you fucking run out retard

>>376871487
>Dayz like interaction
>Kill on sight or that guy will kill me on sight
did you even play the game? Only like maybe 5% of the time players interact with each other instead of just killing

Legion is the best expansion since tbc

>B-but the AP grind!

A non issue. You get enough ap to join the raiding scene by the time you are done questing. The only people who think this is a problem are the autists who can't be happy unless they are capped on AP at all times

Legendaries were a far bigger issue when they were still an issue

It's been 12 fucking years.

We're WAAAAAAAY past the point where anyone, and I mean anyone, thought they'd be still playing and the point in the story.

>>376873252
>then you fucking run out

of what?

>Arms complete dogshit two expansions in a row.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FUCK YOU BLIZZARD, FUCK YOU BLUE HAIRED FAGGOT.

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>>376872574
No they don't. FFXIV is a piece of shit and the community is filled with ERPing whales that do nothing but dance in hubs and afk netflix in dungeons. Horrible early game, horrible class designs, horrible ability acquirements, introducing jump potions to bypass story mode and get straight to level 60 in jobs because the alternative is grinding 120 hours of bullshit fetch quests to reach the next expansion since it's mandatory to do the main quests, then you only have 1 real leveling method which is the most repetitive and boring shit because FATE's are fucking dead and not worth the effort. But hey, can't wait for the new expansion to bring in new emotes, danaces, and glamours to the mogshop, right?

>>376867278
LF COL +2 MY STONE YOUR CARRY IL 890+ ONLY!!!!!!!

>>376873413
Ways to progress your character i.e. reasons to log in

>>376873231
Legion

>>376873252
Ok but the point is that sure there's something to do but it's not "content", it's fucking boring and why everyone's quitting and high end guilds getting "fatigue".
>dude skyrim has infinite replay value it has radiant quests

I've been enjoying this expansion a lot. It has it's flaws like the Legendary system, but stuff like M+ have been great and the raids have been fun.

>>376873231
Elder Scrolls online. Though really, that's like sprinkles on a shit pile.

>>376873569
High end guilds also do it 5x over so they can split run like raging autists so who the fuck cares

It's better than only raid logging like in the past 4 expansions

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>tfw i want to play vanilla private server but lost all progression on 3 different servers before i could step into naxx and can't be fucked doing MC progression again.

At least the elysium repack is fun for shits and giggles

>>376873695
I really wouldn't call ESO a WoW clone. The combat is completely different, the pvp is completely different, leveling is all scaled so you can go where ever you want hell even the auction house is completely different.

>>376873590
Right, M+ is great compared to the 'raid or die' endgame content structure of WoD and to a lesser extent MoP. Legitimate improvement to the game. I'm not actually interested in playing it any more after playing on and off since 2007, but good to see the designers haven't completely lost the plot, just partially.

>>376873776
>Want to join vanilla wow server but they artificially gate raid progress so Naxx isn't open, and most of BWL isn't even scripted, or even spawned for that matter.

>>376873753
it's definitely better than draenor, I'll give you that. But it doesn't change the fact that doing the same 12 dungeons and world quests over and over and over and over and over and over IS boring and is why people are quitting. If there was no AP do you think people would be doing those world quests or doing nearly as many dungeons? Course not, because it's not something that's fun to do and once people realize that completing a dungeon gives them 0.01% completion on their artifact they'll quit.

>>376873486
As a ilvl 904 fury war with mythic raid gear and almost all BiS equipment I have trouble getting into keystones above +5 when using LFG. Literally no one wants sub 905 for god knows what reason even though 890 is more than ok. Almost every time I've done one around +10 with guildies or friends we 3 chest it and having shit like draught of souls I usually top most bosses, but god knows 1 mill+ st burst and good consistent aoe isn't good enough for the kings and queens who run the lfr key groups.

>>376873875
>and to a lesser extent MoP
Okay retard, how was MoP not completely raid or die?

Fucking everything but raiding was worthless. From the moment LFR was released nothing but the current tier raid was worth doing.

I just like doing quests and rping( just in my head ofc)

>>376874049
Feeling the same regards 902 holy priest.
Declined from +6 runs half the time

>>376874049
it's because everybody plays dps so they're not in high demand, groups can be picky because a 10 key is rare and a dps is not

>>376874046
You're right, without AP people wouldn't play period because outside of raid night you can't actually progress

>>376871548
Of course not, because they stopped releasing sub numbers. And it's mostly bots anyway

>>376874049
It's because there are a million dps all signing up for the shit.

>>376869027
>open legacy servers to people who own the most current expansion
Wow, such complex.

>>376874049
it was a huge mistake putting ilvl in the group finder tool, even a simple checkbox showing if you've done this at least once would've been better

>>376874223
yeah so you agree that it's artificial "content" then, and it's better than literally having nothing to do but it's not good enough obviously since the game's dying and people have had enough

>>376874362
You fucking jew!

>>376872663
WoW was a normie game from the beginning. It was notorious for having the worst pugs in MMOs.

>>376874049
>bragging about 1M burst on a fury warrior

Lol

>>376874046
It's better than the "Log on two nights a week for raid then don't log on for anything else" schedule people were doing in previous expansions. Now if you actually want to try improving your character outside raid nights it's possible because of M+.

World quests take like 30-40 minutes tops with flying if all you do are the AP quests. It's boring but people aren't quitting over a minor time inconvenience. As for the people who are grinding themselves to quitting in dungeons that's their own fault, of course they're going to burn out when they spend half their days spamming M+ keys.

>>376874517
Well retard Wrathbabies were okay with having literally nothing before, so it has nothing to do with quality

WoW made one change that wasn't in favor of the casuals and retards cry

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>>376872925
Lore has been the best it's been since warcraft 3.

I loved tBC but fuck everything it did lorewise.

>>376874751
>dude illidan is actually still alive and by the way he is the savior of the universe and also raised an army of mini illidans t. Wind chime

Yea no

>>376874632
Actually now that I think about it, I prefer the "log on for raid nights" rather than this shit, you log in for raids, you have fun, you log off. Instead of now where you also log in to do boring, not fun grind content to keep up with everyone else in your guild. Do you really like doing the same world quest for the fifteenth time? Same dungeon for the thirtieth time in 6 months? I don't. They're making millions, they should be able to think of a way to keep players organically engaged. Doesn't help that they fucked up the classes and they're not fun to play anymore, maybe fixing that would fix the whole game so you'd play dungeons cause you enjoy doing them

>>376873231
Wildstar
It's a lot better game than people give it credit for

What past mistakes?

The past mistake of WoD making them hundreds of millions of dollars, just like Legion is doing?
The past mistake of realizing that just shitting out an expansion guarantees at least $50+$13 from at least 7 million people regardless of quality?
The past mistake of recognizing that the monetizing content and putting it in the microtransaction store makes free money?

Or are you talking about the actual quality of the game, which is irrelevant because the WoW playerbase is nothing but shit-eating troglodytes

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Is the mobs-scale-with-your-level-in-Legion bullshit still implemented?
Where is the cheapest place to buy a 30day key?

>>376875110
no

>>376875194
wait, for leveling the mobs do scale with you, but at 110 they don't scale with item level

>>376875278
Ah okay not wholly terrible then what the fuck were they thinking

I quit in 2010, which was during the WotLK expansion I believe.

Just started again a week ago, and I'm having fun.

>>376874632
>Flying
Yeah, after you grind out every single rep in the expansion, do every quest and get exalted with nightfallen. You're completely time gated by world quest spawn rates for rep as well.

>AP
AP is also timegated by the 5 day timer to gain a level of artifact knowledge.

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>pvp in legion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_CmNDrf0oM

>>376875004
>actually thinking it's okay to not want to log in 4/7 days a week

Kill yourself please

>>376869080
Yep I had high hopes for legion. BUT I was iffy going in so this was my last chance for Wow. I'm out and done. I'll keep it installed for when my friend drops by but yeah Grinding isnt content.

>>376875001
>implying he died

I'll give you the "he's gonna be the big ol' angel savior" was dumb as fuck, but how the current lore is going, it seems like they're throwing that part out to use the Anduin one and making Illidan out to be the asset to use against the Legion he always was meant to be.

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Did anyone actually like the AP grind? I felt a lot of relief when I capped knowledge and got the non-prestige ranks out of the way.

That said, name an era of WoW with satisfying "content", I fail to see when this game wasn't like this.

>>376872065
Class Halls are nowhere near as important as Garrisons. You can literally ignore all of it outside of artifact knowledge.

>>376875439
>he actually plays a game where he doesn't have fun
I prefer "I'll log on these days since I have fun on these days because I raid" than "I'll also log on these days where I don't have fun to be able to keep doing something fun", what I want is "I'll log on on raid nights to have fun, and also off raid nights to have fun too", why don't you go tell your overlords to make a good game and I'll consider resubbing but as long as korean mmo style grind remains I'm not playing.

>>376875526
I don't like the AP system, but I don't understand why people call it a grind. I guess if you spend all day in Mythic+ dungeons it can seem like a grind but those are people forcing that grind on themselves.

>>376875684
>You can literally ignore all of it except this really important thing that you can't ignore

>>376875469
>a post that is in literally every WoW post, article, thread, and high school lunch table for past 8 years

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How did anyone think artifact power/artifact weapons were a good thing?

Did an endless grind really sound fucking fun to people?

>>376875396
What kind of boring ass shit is this?

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Everyone who hates the thought of Legacy servers

>>376875737
it's a grind because it's repeating the same boring dailies and the same dungeons except times infinity, comparable to skyrim radiant quests, sure it's fun the first time or two, but after that it's extremely boring

>>376874056
I was literally just hedging because I only played the first few months of MoP before giving up because I hated the eastern theme so much. I assumed it was as bad as WoD, but I played much more of WoD and the ridiculousness of raid content dominating over everything else and Ion Hazzikostas's utter indifference to anyone wanting any meaningful endgame content other than raiding is something I remember well.

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>>376875396
>>376875815
>No Windwalker
No shit it's boring and frustrating

>>376875814
Artifact weapons were a pretty cool design, but it's the artifact power and having it never cap that's the problem. The artifact weapons with a capped AP system would just be similar to the way that the talent system works, which is fine

>>376874049
Pretty much why I quit the game and won't be returning. I don't have time for a regular raiding schedule, M+ is my endgame and you can't join 99% of groups because of ridiculously petty elitism. Pretty much all my friends quit for the same reason. To the people running those groups, I hope they enjoy their rapidly declining game population.

>>376875952
But how is that any different from boring dailies and those other dungeons in previous expansions? The only difference is that instead of getting gold and rep you're getting Artifact Power, gold and rep.

>>376876152
it's not but people have become tired of it, especially when in 2 years all that grind will be meaningless, if blizzard wants to keep their players they'll have to innovate
also doesn't help the classes are boring as shit to play

>>376868436
literally the only class that doesn't have buttons to press is BM hunters and MM. Everything else has plenty of shit

>>376876531
Lots of classes you have to intentionally spec to have interesting stuff to press. The 'recommended' spec for Frost DK has a 3 button rotation. If you want a rotation anywhere near as interesting as during WoD or MoP, you have to intentionally gimp yourself and pick active talents instead of passive ones. The game is clearly trending towards playing itself when the active talents are considered suboptimal choices.

>>376876531
Is this some kind of bait?

>>376875748
You can literally play through the entire end-game without ever touching follower missions besides the 5 required ones for your third artifact.

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>>376875881

>>376876729
>You can literally play through the entire end-game without ever touching follower missions besides the times you can't

>>376876374
That's the same for any grind in the game.

>>376876913
The entire endgame except for the first two days of hitting level 110

>>376877019
>The entire endgame except when you can't

>>376877083
Which is the first two days of hitting level 110, with missions so easy you don't even need to level up your followers first.

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>>376875737
>>376876152
Dailies were always just a way to gate rewards behind rep, daily rewards, etc.

Artifact Power is a never ending grind solely because there is never a way to signal you should stop for the day. This isn't bad by itself, but it does make playing alts a chore and maintaining them even worse.

I guess my point is that when your main class gets a round of nerfs and your alts have dust on them, you start to feel the downsides of the system. Also fuck relics, deciding between a trait and an ilvl upgrade is dumb as hell.

>>376877181
>Which is when you can't

>>376877214
I don't disagree.

I enjoyed how it made dungeons actually relevant for raiders. Made M+ waaay too powerful for gearing though.

I'm wondering why they don't offer great items from actual quests anymore. It was fun long ago getting some pretty decent items from doing long ass chains, now all you get is rep and AP.

>Quit a few months ago
>Resub cause bored as shit and need a time killer
>Do heroics after starting the Broken shore stuff
>Other players do literally 4 times my DPS because they have gear, AP, and legendaries
>Feel pointless

I remember back in Wrath and Cata you could outdps people with better gear than you if you were good and they weren't. Now it just doesn't matter and its just who has better numbers, and the differences in gear are insane.

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>>376872065
>>376875748
>>376876913
>>376877083
>>376877214
Why even complain about order halls when they're probably among the least involved features of the expansion? You realistically go to them for a few things weekly and you can avoid them the rest of the time. Min-maxing followers takes next to no time at all.

Hell, the raid loot boxes they drop mean nothing when Mythic+ exists.

The only real gripe you could have with them is the amount of passive gold gain, but I ain't saying no to free gold that the rest of players don't even optimize them for.

>>376875881

holy fuck, like, play a different game

>>376877560
>least involved features of the expansion
>except when it's not
Point is, it's a shitty feature from a shitty shitty previous expansion that's forced on players if they want ti play anything at all. Wanna PvE? Gotta do your garrison/class hall! Wanna pvp? Gotta do your garrison/class hall! Wanna catch em all? Gotta do your garrison/class hall!

>>376877498
Nothing about this post is true.

Fuck off you literal fucking moron.

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>>376877498
Confirmed for not playing wrath or cata. Typically when going into a random you got grouped with new players and they did fuck all. Wrath was the expansion where tanks were allowed to do damage and they were able to solo dungeons.

>>376871487
Darkfall: Rise of Agon that just came out is literally this

>>376877757
What the fuck are you talking about? It's been true since MoP. Gear scaling got out of control when they started doing crazy item level jumps. In Wrath it only went from 200-264 for endgame, excluding H-LK weapons. In Legion its gone from 800-900 with only one fucking tier out. It leads to absolutely retarded differences in power,

>>376877415
hmm almost sounds like the valor/badges we had 10 fucking years ago

>>376877727
>wanna pvp? gotta level to 110! wanna pve? gotta level to 110!
The problem with the garrisons is that you pretty much had to check it 3 times a day indefinitely. Once you've done your artifact and class hall quests there's pretty much no reason to touch class hall missions again.
You might not like the class hall quests personally, but it's no different from an attunement that you don't want to do.

>>376868240
Its not the content its how they're managing their game. People are leaving simply because they cant balance worth a shit and if they do balance chances are its a nerf or a removal of a once fun ability. Right now the Shamans on PTR are fucking fuming because they've basically fucking ruined the entire fucking classes fun factor. People are getting sick of it and just leaving for good.

>>376877841
And yet I could pug ICC on my poorly geared Rogue and outdamage most shitters covered in pugged ToC25 gear. No chance of that happening anymore.

>>376877727
>least involved except when it's not
>when Mythic+, Raiding, PvP, and time-gated weekly quests with no rewards take more time than queuing order hall shit weekly, etc.

You could have picked anything, and you're focused on the thing you can drop after your class hall missions. It's not gating a legendary like WoD which was expansion wide and took weeks on weeks to do. You literally don't have to do it more than a handful of times.

>>376877972
>Blizzard Activision: No Fun Allowed

>>376877949
>wanna pvp? gotta level to 110! wanna pve? gotta level to 110!

Except you can turn leveling off and do both PvE and PvP.

>>376878143
You can turn off leveling and avoid the class hall entirely.
>>376878051
Maybe you just suck now.

>>376878051
Pugs are full of shitters? What a fucking revelation. That still happens today.

I haven't played since a couple of weeks after Legion launch, what's the issue? Another content drought? They've been "learning a lot from their last game" since Cataclysm launched

>>376878051
>I can't outdamage pugs

Are you retarded or gearing wrong?

>>376878208
>You can turn off leveling and avoid the class hall entirely.
Doesn't bring back talent trees and good damage scaling

>>376878208
I just don't think you understand. The only Back in Wrath, you could easily gear a character up to 232 ilvl and compete with most players in the 251-260 range. Where as nowadays, you can get to 845 gear pretty easily and quickly, but good fucking luck competing with the people who've been playing since launch and having more AP levels than, 2 legendaries, and 900 ilvl.

>>376878354
None of that has anything to do with class halls. Now you're just complaining about the fact that expansions happen.

>>376878109
>You literally don't have to do it except when you do

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>>376867278
Retards are still paying for it, they have no reason to stop shitting expansions.

The losers who are still addicted to this game will die glued to their computer screens. Blizzard is merely capitalizing on their inability to function.

>>376878314
Things that have been a part of WoW and MMOs for years are bad and it's Legion's fault.

>>376878494
>I don't like having to do something 5 times in a game with worse time sinks

>>376878494
Your complaint was that it was a shitty rehash of garrisons, when it has none of the aspects of garrisons that made them so shitty.

>>376877949
>>wanna pvp? gotta level to 110! wanna pve? gotta level to 110!
Except leveling doesn't encourage you to log off while a timer ticks down

>>376878627
>literally has the mission table

Hmm

What's even more embarassing is that people STILL fucking fall for Blizzard's shit. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me four expansions in a row, I must be mentally retarded whose addicted.

>>376878627
show aspects up your ass with your facebook game

>>376873464
You don't know anything about the game.

What I really want to know is, why the fuck did Blizzard think linking BR-shithole infested servers with NA servers was a good idea? They're the worst player-base and incredibly fucking annoying in game.

>>376878442
They've thrown catchup mechanics in and you reach ilvl 860 and 20 AK easily now. Good enough for new and returning players but not total welfare like Wotlk.

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Daily reminder that killing bosses in LFR is the same as killing it on Mythic.

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>>376867278
Because people keep shoveling them money. That being said though wow is nowhere near as bad or in as bad of a state as /v/ acts, the game is actually pretty fun and comfy if you're just doing casual pvp or pve occasionally

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>>376870437
How does Gul'dan looks like on chinese clients?

He has bones poking out of his back and skulls all over his robes.

This thread is filled with people who have either not played any of the mmo's they talk about or played very little of it got tired of lfming and quit and tell stories that they have heard online.

>>376873464
t. never played past the story

>>376878702
Free gold and supplies was never anything players complained about. People pretended that's all the game was so they called it a facebook game. The rewards or the frequency of missions are nowhere near as good. The garrison gave a lot of reasons never to leave it, such as profession buildings, a bank, and an auction house. It also was a hub for dailies.

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It's more of a problem that WoW is currently given to D-Team
Overwatch is A-Team
Hearthstone is B-Team
Heroes of the Storm is C-Team
WoW is D-Team

This thread is filled with people who have a differing opinion than I do and I cannot fathom the possibility of another human being on this planet not sharing the exact thoughts and opinions that I possess.

>>376878943
Source?

>>376878943
What about StarCraft and Diablo?

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>>376879026
The fact that all of those games get more attention than WoW? It's not rocket science.

>>376879069
lol

>>376867732
most of them left a long time ago

>>376879069
Diablo is D and StarCraft G

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>>376878763
>>376878763
>SE apologists that ignore the inherent flaws in the game and go "Y-you just don't understand! MUH ENDGAME"
Also, not an argument.

>>376878970
>>376878970
Yeah they have differing opinions based on stuff that they have heard and not played themselves, half the people here haven't seen a mythic dungeon. For the people who play ff14 half of them haven't seen thoradin much less do something like a12s or zuvurian ex.

>>376868175
It'd be pretty neat if it went full anime and VR advanced to the point where movement wasn't a thing and you just used your brain to move your character about and do stuff.

>>376879091
>The fact that all of those games get more attention than WoW? It's not rocket science.
So you don't have one and your just blowing smoke out your ass, wow is actually at it's biggest team ever right now

>>376879153
Yeah play the game first and get back to me.

>>376870176
I'm casual and I'm 49 into outlaw and 46 in sin. ToS is like what, a month away and with AK, it will be easy to get there.

But nice thing is when you get it, you don't need to grind it out that much unless you're going for world first, it doesn't give you much of increase for stat per rank.

They did it right for this one. The grind to 15% before legion fall wasn't fun.

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>>376879224
>wow is actually at it's biggest team ever right now
Haha, you fucking serious nigga?
MoP was the last time the WoW team was actually big before it split off into branches because of Hearthstone, HotS, and Overwatch.

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>>376879248
Now it's time for you to move the goalpost. What's it going to be this time? Gotta be 271 ilvl? Maxed out lorebooks? Maxed out crafters? ARR and HW relics for every single character? You still haven't addressed any of the issues I mentioned. Kys.

>>376879396
>I know how to google FFXIV character sheets

>>376879091
>Source?
>I have no source

>>376879396
Consider not responding to it, newfriend.

>>376879349
Yes you stupid nigger they straight up confirmed during wod that they were at their biggest team ever to work on legion, the team may be shit and full of new hires but you can't say their putting work into it

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>>376879460
Retard.
>>376879497
I want to see him run out of things to say until he reaches the inevitable "troled u lmao just pretended" stage.

>>376879674
Figures. Continually responding to shitposting is shitposting itself. Hope you two become good friends and forge a suicide pact

>>376879730
Thread has slowed to a crawl lad. Not much else to talk about. Just filled with people arguing like every other thread.

>>376879502
>During MoP they hired a fuckton of new employees and interns and whatnot
>Resources, along with members of the team, started getting moved from WoW to Overwatch, which is the main reason why WoD was so cut to shit
>Even believing Blizzard for a moment when they say that the team is big again
>The current director is time-gating everything
>7.2 is apparently the "largest patch in the history of WoW", but it's been fucking nothing other than world quests for several weeks

>>376879836
Sometimes it is okay for a thread to die especially if it is full of senseless arguing. I wish I wasn't stuck here forever and could move on.

>>376874046
People do mythic + for chance on sick titanforge not ap

>>376879879
>believing your own spurious shitposts over blizzard themselves
actually kill yourself, the team is shit but it's big, it's hard to find decent devs to work on a now 13 year old game running on a modified rts engine when there's other newer projects out there they can ask to be put on

>>376878843
From my personal experience, as someone who played all vanilla, all tbc, all wrath, some cata, a momrh of wod and now a month of legion Never tried MoP because it's absolute shit the game is currently in its best state since Wrath.

The time gated world quests are annoying as fuck, because it gates nearly all of your legion world progress. However, mythic + dungeons are actually pretty good. The heroic and mythic raids are challenging and fun. They fucked up with AP originally, but it's not nearly as bad in 7.2. The game heavily pushes you to focus on one character, but I feel like that's a good thing.

I really don't like crossrealm stuff still. I feel the game would benefit more if they just consolidated realms instead. LFR and LFD are basically pointless to even do now, which is good, thanks to the superior rewards from doing mything+, and mythic+ at least requires you to build your own group. They also made most quests require at least normal mode for raids, and mythic mode for dungeons, which forces people to get away from the soulless dungeon finder.

Pvp is as always shit though.

>>376879187
Yeah, and I bet they also haven't completed maxed out craft, gathering, or unlocked everything from Gold saucer or maxed out their Chocobo. Can you believe some of them don't even have a house to farm in? Oh, wait, you think the only people's opinions are those who just do the highest level of PvE right? I bet PvP doesn't even exist to you.

One of the things I despise the most are people who cream over ilvls and endgame raiding thinking that's literally what the entire game has and is about which makes them ignore everything else that's shit about their game. This goes for both WoW and FFXIV. I cannot fathom how many people buy shit from the store and defend every shit choices both companies do. From the entire facebook minigame shit in WoW to Jump potions and MSQ gating in FFXIV.

>>376878832
Sure, but the difficulty is the difference. Never done mythic Guldan but there's an additional to heroic from normal where he summons a dreadlord in P2.

Still easy tho.

>>376880121
MoP was literally the best expansion