I’ll never understand the worship of this game. And I’ll

>>376775312
>VTM: Bloodlines, KOTOR 2 and New Vegas
I love these but you don't have to like them either. I respect your opinion

Just so we're good Avellone had nothing to do with VTM:B's story and wrote the worst parts of NV but different strokes my man.

Tremere best clan

I like VtmB, don't know who Avellone is. With the patches, it's a good RPG. VtmB in particular gets leeway for not realizing goals because it was rushed. This affects everything from gamebreaking bugs to how social characters get fucked in the later parts of the game (later levels are developed later, just an odd historic quirk of game design in general). The "what could have been", and the lack of related content, unlike Star Wars and Fallout, makes it the odd one out in my opinion, and exactly where you'd expect to find a cult following, on a 3x multiplier for vampires.

Kotor is in my backlog. New Vegas is ok, I agree it's not a pinnacle of anything.

By the way, VtmB has an 89 and New Vegas an 86 on Metacritic. I can sympathize with both. "The sect" may just be an annoying fringe. In the interests of discussion, what do you think are better WRPGs?

>>376775312
So what rpgs do you like now I'm curious??

>>376776189
I actually like all the RPGs I talked about – though I will say again that they are deeply flawed. I do like them but it annoys it annoys me when RPG fans dismiss other games for shit reasons.

It just grinds my gears when I see people stating that New Vegas is vastly superior to FO3. I mean really, they are about as good as each other. FO3 has the better world and NV has the (slightly) better writing.

But fucking beard-strokers will try to tell you that NV is vastly superior because LORE and OBSIDIAN.

And the lore wasn't even good. They totally failed to deal with the aftermath of the Enclave, and mostly just ignored them. You get a couple of nods here and there but it's not very satisfying. They throw in Marcus and the supermutants but it's really just an easter egg - once you've got Lily, there's not much else to see that supermutant town.

FO3 may have broken lore but it did directly address the stories of the previous games, in its own way. Enclave, Supermutants, ghoul rebellion, etc. None of this stuff matters much in New Vegas.

>>376775312
Well, the thing about New Vegas is that it's very much a big fish in a small pond. It's directly competing with modern Bethesda games, so:

Morrowind
Oblivion
Fallout 3
Skyrim
Fallout 4

Now, the thing that pisses off a lot of Bethesda fans is that the games just keep getting more and more streamlined. New Vegas didn't do that. It's the one game that just took its predecessor and improved on it, adding more content and deeper mechanics. It was a rehash in the absolute best sense possible. That's why people go crazy about it. It wouldn't be such a big deal if not for the fact that nobody else in the world has ever tried to compete with Bethesda.

Name 1 game that's conceptually similar to VtMB and gives a better experience?

>>376776970
Gonna interject The Enclave was blown the smithereens in FO2 what did you want fro m them exactly?

Don't get me wrong, fanboys of any game even ones I enjoy are annoying as shit. We can argue what is "better" writing I just so happpen to prefer Troika's/Obsidian's' gloomy, "not all is black and white" style to traditional storytellign even if the end s are rather shallow. Not going to bullshit you by going on about the journey being better than the destination but I do enjoy their work.

I've been playing it on and off over the past few months and it really doesn't grip me.
I expected much more given how much /v/ hyped it up, but it's just a good RPG system with awful, clunky combat.

The writing is good and all but it's not enjoyable to play.

>>376776970
I think the problem is you just like FO3 more and are categorizing the lack in lore as a flaw.

>>376777485
and you prefer gameplay to storytelling I can;t fault you for that even if I'm the opposite

>>376777485
The strength of the game definitely stems from the writing, but I didnt find the combat to be horrendous, just frustrating. But like others will most likely say, its a good game if you can handle writing+atmosphere > engaging gameplay.

Ok good glad we got that settled

>>376776970
I don't think FO3 has the better world at all. It's entirely disjointed, a set of short stories more than some overarching idea. Indeed there's something enjoyable about going from some place where there's a clone that chases you around saying Gary, then the next place you're finding out about tree face mutant guy. I mean none of this feels very connected, and none of it is connected. In NV, well, there's not as much super freaky stories, you have a lot of quests dealing with the factions and the factions also influence how the various cities are...It's a better world because it is actually a world, rather than a bunch of stories that don't relate to each other.

It's not that I think Fallout 3 is bad, it has its charms story wise, but yeah I think it deserves a lot of the criticism it gets and it's not just beard strokers.

>>376775312
tl;dr

>>376777425
There would be more to the Enclave than that one off-shore base.

To be honest, I never thought they were finished at the end of FO2. They had vertibirds and airbases all over the place.

If they are a continuation of the Old World then there would be other politicians waiting to take the place of the prez.

your all fagets

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>>376775312
>You can bet your arse that if Chris Avellone had a writing credit on Skyrim, they would be bending over backwards to defend that too.
I take it you've never been in a NV thread when Lonesome Road gets mentioned.

>>376778571
>I don't think FO3 has the better world at all.

FO3 has issues but it mostly delivers on the world. It has a geographically interesting place to explore – compared to the barren literal desert of NV.

And I can already hear the beards bristling: “It’s set in a desert, what did you expect?” I can already hear the spittle-chinned defences slobbering through.

Even if we pardon the desert for being a desert, we can’t pardon New Vegas – the town itself – for being such a disappointment. “THASS THU GAMEBREYO ENJUN” shriek the beardmen, as they throw their toys from the pram. But they are ignoring the fact that this same engine produced not one but nine more impressive and immersive towns in Oblivion.

>>376779202
or KOTOR 2's not ending

>>376776970
FO3 didn't really address the previous games supermutants at all, nor anything about ghoul rebellion. The supermutants in it are seperate ones that really shouldn't exist from the information given in the first game but oh well.

NV addresses them. It has been a long, long time since the events of the first game. Supermutants don't really die of age but they do tend to get dementia and with no way to reproduce or create more of themselves, and an entire world that hates them they are a remnant. Most of the ones around aren't even the Master's superior Supermutants, just the second gen accidents. New Vegas actually address the information from the earlier games in a consistent and logical manner.

The Enclave is true as well. The Enclave were important but they didn't really have a large scale impact, because you stopped them before they could make their larger impact and they didn't really have a reason to go to war with the cities since they were going to wipe them out with viruses. The NV also follows FO3 as canon so the Enclave main body went east, leaving only scattered remnants in the west. The only people around associated with it are old men and women and the middle age children of those old men and women. Despite this the Enclave is still treated with terror when they are brought up, but they don't really exist as a faction. They were dealt with, and with a logical and realistic manner.

Both of these things are good. Bringing back a defeated villain again and again is bad writing, especially for this kind of game. Fighting the master again would be dumb. Fighting the Enclave again after defeating them already was dumb too.

>>376779549
FO3 is a good Elder Scrolls game, better than Oblivion certainly.
But it's a bad Fallout game. Fallout games aren't really about dungeon delving. Sure there's usually one or two but that's not what a Fallout game is about. It's about towns and settlements. Civilization after the end.

>>376779549
It sounds like your definition of world, which has more to do with the design of the game, is different than mine, which has to do with how the story is built. Oops.

>>376776970
>fallout 3
>better world

Oh, so you're just retarded.

New Vegas has a world that actually explores and engages the societies that inhabit it. The various communities have relationships with one another, the people have sensible reasons for being in the places they are, and the plotline tours you through them in a believeable way.

"better world" is just another way of saying MUH CAPITOL BUILDING, it only looks at the absolute most surface level of these locations when an RPG is a lot more than just visuals.

>>376779549
Relax pal.

Anyways, New Vegas had a lot of great areas, especially when you take the DLC into account. And I say that as somebody who loved the DC ruins. Plus, New Vegas has more unique weapons and armor, which means you're generally more rewarded for dungeon crawling.

>>376779673
>Fallout games aren't really about dungeon delving.

You start in a dungeon, when you leave the vault. First mission from Sandy Shores is to clear out a radscorpion cave.

They original games were full of dungeon dwelling. Even the missions in towns, like Modoc in FO2, involved going down a dungeon. Navarro was a dungeon, the training temple was a dungeon, the San Fran ship was a dungeon, etc.

>>376780726
they had dungeons of course, but they don't make up the majority of the storytelling like they do in FO3

>>376775312
>I’ll never understand the worship of this game.
That's fine

>The rest of your angry post detailing why you hate the games and their fans
Meh.

>>376775312
Vampire worshippers are just PC only users with nothing better to jerk off to because they have no games.

>>376775312
You can bet your arse that if Chris Avellone had a writing credit on Skyrim, they would be bending over backwards to defend that too.

Absolute bullshit. Look at Pillars of Eternity for the perfect example that says otherwise; no one defends the writing in that game other than the two characters written by Avellone. The rest of it is recognized as being sub par.

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>>376775312

>>376781113
>Absolute bullshit. Look at Pillars of Eternity for the perfect example that says otherwise; no one defends the writing in that game other than the two characters written by Avellone. The rest of it is recognized as being sub par.

Don't you realise that you're proving my point?

"The only good bits are the Avellone bits."

>>376775312
You say a game is bad, but then all you do is complain about the fanbase instead of the game itself. What is it about VtMB that makes it "not very good"?

>>376775312
Those are just games with some good RPG elements. Of course there are flaws, some of us can simply ignore the flaws in a game in favor of it's strengths. In the end you're moaning about the fact that people liked a game more than you.

The 'vociferous (and quite angry) people who leap maniacally to the defence of VTM: Bloodlines, KOTOR 2 and New Vegas' are just a byproduct of the warlike atmosphere of this board, the same as the people they're defending the games against who, like you, feel the need to attack games that are highly praised because if they can't understand it then it must be wrong.

Just shut the fuck up and play the game. If you don't like it, move on.
Better yet don't even play it and best of all get off this board.

>>376775312
>I’ll never understand the worship of this game.
nostalgia
pretty mediocre game tbqh

Another thread where people complain about 10 year old games and say how they are sub par

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>>376779202