why is so much of /v/ so narrow minded about what they consider

pic unrelated btw

>>376701153
I think the most outspoken parts of /v/ are just reacting to what they perceive as an industry and community that no longer respects the core values of fun gameplay and complex mechanics. They're lashing out against the casuals and "chic geeks" who are more likely to praise a game for looking pretty and talking about Capital-S-Stuff than criticize it for simplistic or boring gameplay.

And I get it. I certainly prefer the more intense and complex games myself, and a part of me quietly scoffs whenever someone brings up a piss-easy cover shooter as a "power fantasy", but I don't get too angry about it. What makes a piece of art or media good is just two things: having a clearly communicated purpose and achieving that purpose well. If a game wants to stretch my reaction time and pattern recognition to the limit, then I welcome the challenge. If a game just wants to make me feel like a goddamned superhero for a little while, I look forward for that too. It's just when games try really hard to do shit that they don't know how to do, or just assume you'll automatically enjoy them because they're exactly like this OTHER game you like.

>>376701153
> narrow minded about what they consider 'good' in games?
It's called being right and being able to prove it

You're just trying to wiggle yourself out being BTFO saying that you just got mansplained and that emotionally you're are right and they're wrong

>>376701153
The MGS3 ladder thing is style over substance

>>376701629
this

the science is settled

>>376701153
/v/ constant has its tryhard panties on and wants to come here and dickwave.

"This ground isn't hard enough" and "I wish more of my bones were broken" still ring true.

>>376701542
Listen to this man, even if he is oddly focused on power fantasies as opposition to games that need fast reflexes and pattern recognition.

>>376701542
I can see this accounting for some of it, but as I mentioned in the OP even demon's souls is spending an unacceptable amount of time on fights that aren't skill based 1v1's

>>376701629
it's not possible to prove such a thing, good and bad are socially constructed

>>376701673
and?

>>376701629
"rightness" and "proof" are both becoming more and more abstract concepts. I mean, sure, it can feel macho to say, "I'm right, you're wrong, here's why", but I'm inclined to think that whatever you're talking about, it's more complicated than that.

The world is infinitely complex. There is no good or evil. There is no right or wrong. Everything that you believe is true today could be false tomorrow, and then true again the week after, and so on and so forth for eternity.

>>376701153
>that isn't the only thing that matters
But it is.

>>376701153

What happened to that guy anyway? ENB, I mean. All I know is his Jap wife fucked him over somehow, they're currently divorcing and she's trying to deny him custody/visitation with his daughter. Is that why there's no more videos on his channel?

>>376702169
Kojima is pretentious as fuck.

>>376702359
okay I don't think that matters though, the ladder moment is either interesting despite its simplicity or it isn't, and many people think it's interesting so obviously there's something there to be appreciated

>>376701153
It's funny how you post that ENB avatar -image while accusing a whole group of people being narrow minded.

>>376702224
Reason he doesn't do jewtube anymore is because there's no money in it.

He's ran to twitch.

>>376702636
what's funny about it, did you infer something?

Remember when your second child died in uthero.
Those were the days

>>376702732
I was implying that ENB is narrow minded.

>>376702175
>"rightness" and "proof" are both becoming more and more abstract concepts
are you 12

things like "well-made game" are as objective and hard as math because they ARE math: how much time and effort developers spent on this game and how much combined years of expertise went into it.

>>376702715

>there's no money in it
>He's ran to twitch.

Ah, he wants money directly into his hand, rather than relying on views.

>muh epic meme moments
fuck off

>>376702913
no they're not, because there's no 'ideal' that all games are striving towards, some games meet and some games don't

there's nothing objective about what you 'feel' is good or worthwhile, and appealing to the authority 'objective materialism' isn't necessary anyway—why can't you just argue for your point of view?

>>376703065
what are epic meme moments?

>>376702169
>and?
If style over substance is a good thing in your book, that's pretty much everything anyone needs to hear about your taste and priorities

>>376701153
>epiccuckbro

>>376703281
sometimes style is worthwhile, so saying "this is stylish in place of substantive" isn't really a point against stylishness

>>376703367
Style and substance are not mutually exclusive.
If something is styling in place of substantive, the game is shit and the developer cares more about memes than about the game.

>>376703460
I didn't say style and substance are mutually exclusive

>If something is styling in place of substantive, the game is shit and the developer cares more about memes than about the game.
so MGS3 is shit because the ladder section was completely style over substance then? we can just ignore everyone who likes the game because they're confused about their own preferences?

>>376701153
You're right, and DeS contrarians are a fresh new cancer, but those moments work because they have hours of solid core gameplay to contrast against.
Too many normies think that emotional feelsy scenes are more important than core gameplay, or that 5 minutes of feels can forgive hours of mediocre gameplay, which is why turds like Bioshock Infinite and Undertale get popular, and /v/ is lashing out against that.

>>376702749
>Remember when your second child died in uthero.

Btw, it is implied that his ex did that on purpose.

It's very shallow. In the best case scenario those emotional/atmospheric moments will work once, and then lose all their effect becoming either boring or straight up tedious sections. Good gameplay mechanics on the other hand stay enjoyable for a very long time, and theres always something new to discover. Undermining them for something else is short sighted imo because all youre concerned about is the players first encounter, instead of their lasting appeal.

>>376703613
MGS as a series went to shit after MGS1, so yes.
The ladder is not the only thing that made MGS3 bad though.

>>376703952
okay, so following your view that MGS3 is bad because the ladder moment is style over substance and that alone is enough to make the game shit, do good games except for Chess, Snake, Tetris, etc., even exist? it's very, very rare to never have substance sacrificed for style in a game

File: 1488644620727.jpg (39KB, 406x406px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 406x406px

>>376704101
>it's very, very rare to never have substance sacrificed for style in a game
what the fuck am I reading
do you only play shitty indie games?

>>376704178
give me an example of a game and I'll tell you how it sacrifices substances for style in one or more areas

>>376704250
God Hand

>>376704250
Vagrant Story
System Shock 1
Mega Man 3
Street Fighter 2 Turbo

>>376704318
>>376704320

have literally not played any of these games

>>376704360
wew lad wtf are you doing discussing games, get the fuck out and dont come back until youve played at least half

>>376701153
99% of /v/ are dumb, underaged, ironic to the point of being genuine or literally autistic.

Don't take their opinions seriously as long as they can't do it.

>>376702913
By that logic TES V must've been a good game
>>376703756
Not all aspects of a game need to have replay ability. I too like it but failing to appreciate well crafted first time experiences is as dumb as disregarding good gameplay mechanics

>>376701153
it's autism. most games have their own strengths but the underage /v/autists like to knock games based on some arbitrary criteria

>>376704360
>have literally not played any of these games
>praises MGS3
Figures

>>376704629
First time experiences are important too but throwing out gameplay depth in favour of them is the wrong approach. You should find ways to have both, or at least allow experienced players to bypass boring tedious sections like the ladder so parts that would be memorable moments on your first playthrough dont become a nuisance on repeated playthroughs.

>>376704841
Its not arbitrary, its called having preferences and/or beliefs which is what ops asking about. Of course its possible to explain what the appeal of a game element is in a more objective manner but that doesnt mean its impossible to have your own ideas of what good games are.