give me one good reason why there shouldn't be a bonfire

>>376557569

I think in Dark Souls they were still balancing bosses around the idea of, the path to the boss is half the challenge of the boss, they just didn't bother to make it as hard to run past everything like they did in Demon Souls, there is no excuse in stuff like BB or DS3 where bosses can easily one or two shot you though, there is no point not to when Bosses are designed that way, its like they really did just want you to run past everything every time you died.

>>376558086
If you don't take the time to get better, you don't get better.

Running past everything is probably why you found yourself respawning so often. The only bosses in 3 I died to more than three times were Dragonslayer Armor and Nameless King (of fucking course)

There is no tension to boss fights if you simply try again right away. Stressing out about having to fight your way back if you die is part of the adrenalibe rush.

>>376558438
so the bosses aren't capable of providing an adrenaline rush on their own?

>>376557569
In general I agree
It made more sense in Demon's Souls, where the level was a set thing; I always thought of the boss as part of the level, and 'the level' is ultimately what you're trying to beat in one go without dying
In addition to that though DeS also had a lot of shortcuts you could open to make the run back shorter
In Dark Souls and its successors it makes less sense because there are no set 'levels', and often the run back is nothing but holding sprint
I actually think Bloodborne did a much better job at putting checkpoints close to boss fights, especially the hard ones like Orphan and Maria

>>376558515
Not if there's no penalty for dying. Then they're just an ememy that takes longer to kill.

>>376557569
I can't
the game would be a lot more fun if you could instantly re-attempt a fight

then you would know that ever fog gate is a boss. The point of the fog gates were the mystery of whats next, it wasn't always a boss.

>>376558402
fighting regular enemies doesn't make you better at fighting the bosses. If anything it makes it harder to learn because you're forgetting the bosses' movesets and rhythms while wasting time getting back to them

>>376558913
bad argument since they could just spawn a bonfire outside once the boss has been triggered for the first time

this would suck, the game not holding your hand, and being more like older games is part of it

that's just like asking why don't it have a minimap or why there isn't a giant arrow on the screen showing you where to go, or why can't you just load a previous save when you die, so you don't lose any items.

like that anon said, I think that des handled the checkpoint thing WAY better than the dark souls games.

>>376559331
>forgets the movesets in the 30 seconds - 2 minutes it takes to get back to the fight
don't blame the game for your shitty memory span

>>376560002
Des checkpoints wouldn't work in souls games because everything is connected, at least in 1. Das bonfires were spaced pretty good for the most part

Because you have to get good

>>376558705
Nah, it would be boring. Besides, there are people that like to fight enemies on the way to the boss. I feel like a boss rush mode would satisfy you fags

>>376557569
>Give me one good reason why the game doesn't appeal to casual fags
No
If you suck that bad don't play it

>>376560423
yes they would, most of the main bonfires from dark souls are close to some boss.

for example there isn't any bonfire in new londo(with the exception of the abyss), or valley of drakes, but people don't complain about it.

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give me one good reason why there shouldn't be a save point directly outside the metal gate of every boss fight

>go into boss room
>get killed within 30 seconds because i'm not familiar with the moveset yet
>have to spend upwards of 2 minutes running back to the boss area

literally the most blatant padding i've seen in a game

>>376560753
>blatant padding that wastes time is casual
fuck off

>>376560817
>make a hallway
>call it a valley
What did From mean by this

>>376560753
>we dont have to design our game well, just git gud at it dumbass
That really made me think

>>376560856
That's a pretty good point. If bosses are going to be difficult, allow me to come back to it as soon as I die.

>>376560817
There are bonfires in new londo and valley of drakes.
some bonfires are close to a boss so once you get near the boss you don't have to get through so much of the level

>>376561069
no dude there aren't lol

>>376561013
Because it would be boring
>>376560959
If you don't want to run to a boss over and over again then don't die, like in megaman

>>376561265
>then don't die

Kill yourself

>>376561234
Yes there are. Valleys is a secret so ill give you that but you were just praising demons for its checkpoints

>>376561349
git gud shitter

>>376561359
no there aren't

>>376561489
Le reddit reply XD

>>376561526
yes there are

>>376561552
no there aren't

>>376561530
nice finisher kiddo, but you'll have to do better than that...

>>376560549
And by that we mean just look it up on wikipedia instead. Then you can actually start learning how to execute a fight.

>>376561598
yes there are
>>376561641
>having to look at the wiki to beat a boos
wew

>>376561265
>Because it would be boring

and running through the forest or the kiln for 2 minutes every time you die is better how?

Bonfires being far away from bosses is supposed to add to the stress of the game. Remember that the world of Souls is games supposed to be dangerous places and, at least for demons and 1, Miyazaki is on record of stating that the difficulty of the games is about pulling the player into the world. Not pissing them off because lol. Even if you run past enemies the risk of being hit and taking unnecessary damage is still there. Risk and stress that wouldn't be there if you just plopped a bonfire in front of every fog wall.

>>376561720
no
>>376561641
go play some other game like skyrim then, even with instant respawns you would not be able to beat the bosses then

>>376557569
>coming to /v/ to complain that dark souls is unfair
What did you unironically expect from this thread?

>>376561891
There's a lot of stupid shit about Souls games. Each game has its own brand of it. But this isn't one of them.

>>376561789
yes
>>376561807
This
>>376561853
yes

>>376560856
I love MM2 and dark souls but this is a horrible comparison.

You're implying the time between 1988 and 2011 isn't enough to improve on a game mechanic.

>>376561807
but it's not stressful, it's boring

imagine if every time you died a countdown appeared that would count down from 5 minutes before you could play the game again, except in order to get it to countdown you had to hold the sprint button the entire time

explain to me how this would be any different in principle, how is it a waste of your time in a way that running back is not?

>>376562086
firelink shrine isn't new londo
darkroot garden isn't valley of drakes

>>376562303
>reddit spacing

>>376562363
I know

>>376562562
sorry i've only been here a few days xD

any tips on 4channing like an oldfag pro?

>>376559331
many enemies are purposefully made with attacks and timing similar to the area's boss to help you learn

>>376562303
Because during the 5 minute countdown you're not playing the game. You're not being engaged in any manner. Even if you've relegated yourself into ignoring everything other than the boss you are still being engaged. There's a chance you could fuck up and get hit. That's an Estus lost. There's a chance RNG could fuck you over. That's also an Estus lost. You could decide during your run back that you should check out other areas. Or you could end up invaded and have to deal with that.

All of that is engagement and you playing the game. I'm not saying every boss should be like the run to Velstadt but it should present just enough challenge to keep you in your toes on the way to the boss without being so oppressive that you're crippled by the time you get there. Unless that's the tone the game is going for like the climax of Anor Londo, O&S.

>>376558438
you're confusing adrenaline with autism.

>>376562652
I know you're joking, but you're honestly not much better than someone who would type that unironically.

>>376558718
the penalty should be having to try again. going back to shit i already mastered over and over is a waste of time.

>>376560959
>The game isn't designed to hold my hand
Really makes you think
If you're really that fucking retarded or bad at the game you can just run past every enemy. And if you're at kiln of the first flame by that point you shouldn't care about dying

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As someone that liked Dark Souls but don't play it over and over again religiously i can't name a fan base more up in their ass than this series.

You can't criticize any part of the game without Soulfags getting triggered. Not even the story because "just read the item description faggot".

>>376562854
The penalty is time lost. Which serves as a penalty for those who don't care about their souls anymore.

>>376557569
>>get killed within 30 seconds because i'm not familiar with the moveset yet
Have you tried not being of such low intelligence that you have to see something multiple times to remember it, and have literally all of the boss' moves completely memorized to avoid them?

>>376561234
>Das3
>Lothric princes
>Ride elevator up to boss which takes 2 seconds
The dlcs in 3 all have bonfires literally next to the boss

>>376561807
isn't a video game supposed to be fun. isn't stress the opposite of that?

>>376558718
Wouldn't that mean it's weak boss design if the mechanics of the boss isn't a challenge in itself?

Other than the first few times when you don't know jack shit about his attack patterns that might one shot you.

>>376563125
Watching you get stressed is fun for me.

>>376563049
>das3
>valley of drakes and new londo
>Lothric princes
>valley of drakes and new londo

>>376563003
what is the difference between "time lost" and "time wasted"?

how is time spent fighting the boss and failing different from time spent not fighting the boss?

>>376563125
Horror games aren't supposed to be fun but people still like them

>>376562885
Read the thread. It's been said before that there's plenty of stupid shit to bitch about. Lost Izalith and the janky pvp is stupid. Soul Memory and ADP is stupid. Pvp being tied to the bells and the lack of variety is stupid. The linearity and the sucking off of 1 is stupid. There's all sorts of stupid things to complain about. But we're not talking about those things. We're talking about bonfire placement. If you got an argument then present and support it. If you don't then shut the fuck up and lurk and maybe you'll learn something to bitch about later.

>>376563235
horror games are inherently shit.

>>376563340
>I don't like them so they're shit
why

>>376563125
The stress of beating a challenge is fun. Games, or at least games like these, aren't fun when everything just rolls over and dies. That's the entire tone dark souls is going for, victories are supposed to be hard fought and earned. But even then it offers you ways out. You can heal. Bosses can't. You can increase your strength and equipment. Bosses can't. And you can summon help from people who have done it before. So you have an array of tools to win this thing but at the same time bosses are going to go down swinging. Which is part of the fun. Of you don't see the appeal in that then this game is not for you and you need to shift to something easier or more straightforward

>>376562162
>You're implying the time between 1988 and 2011 isn't enough to improve on a game mechanic.
he isn't at all?

>>376563180
Ok das1 has a lot to
>Roll off elevator for hidden bonfire which now takes two seconds to get to Iron Golem
>Open doors in anor Londo and run staight up the stairs to the boss
>Hidden bonfire in the woods right next to sif
>Literal straight path in crystal caves to seath
>Kiln is literally the shrotest area in the game
The one area I can say is bullshit is new Londo ruins since there's no bonfire at all but the 4 kings are easy as shit.
If you want a game you can pause and save outside bosses go play Skyrim on easy

>>376557569
First time playing it last week. Liked the boss designs, the subtle lore, the difficulty even though it got hella repetitive, and music.

But why make the bosses die regularly like any other enemy? Killing them does not feel rewarding, I don't get a cutscene? Quit playing after reaching the middle of blight town. I wasn't having fun, and it didn't feel rewarding.

>>376563340
What is a 'horror' game for you?
Resident evil? Walking sims like outlast? Deadspace?

>>376562885
they actually defend offline play not having a pause feature.

>>376563690
Do you want confetti to rain from the sky and a princess to give you a kiss on the cheek after you beat a boss?

>>376563235
i guess resident evil isn't a horror game because that's fun.

>>376557569
Because the journey to the boss is easy as fuck once you unlock all shortcuts anyways. Also I like collecting extra souls after each attempt. Only in DaS2 did I really fucking hate the run to bosses because A MILLION ENEMIES LMAO.

>>376563229
Because when you plop a bonfire in front of the boss you're fully loaded. The boss is basically an enemy that ate more Snickers bars than everyone else. When you have to run back maybe you're still fully loaded but you earned that opportunity to be fully loaded whether you know it or not. If you took a hit or two you can still fight the boss but your resources will be less. That's the point of the game, be on your toes and utilize your skills to jump the hurdles using as few resources as possible. Made it back to the boss without taking a hit, it is an accomplishment even if it's a small one that improves your chances of winning.

>>376563634
>Roll off elevator for hidden bonfire which now takes two seconds to get to Iron Golem
>implying people even die to the iron golem
>Open doors in anor Londo and run staight up the stairs to the boss
it's quite far and there's a lot of enemies on the way.
>Hidden bonfire in the woods right next to sif
>next to
there's an entire area in the way full of enemies before sif and it's still a long run, 0/10 bait won't even reply the rest

>>376563837
At least a neat animation would be okay.

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This is now bullshit bonefire moments thread
>the bonefire placement before the iron giant
>faggot giant throwing nukes from fuck knows where
>have to run through Sen's sex dungeon again
>eventually shank bomb giant in the ass
>have the comfort to look around for items and bonfires
>REALIZE WHERE THE BONFIRE IS
>GET FUKEN MAD

>>376563849
I wasn't talking about resident evil. More about silent hill

>>376563918
>I suck at the game and won't reply to the rest
Ftfy

>>376563974
silent hill is also fun.

>>376563918
There's a hidden bonfire there you moron. It's behind the wall

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I don't think the bonfire needs to be exactly in front of the boss, but yes I agree it should be near.

If its too far and the boss is really difficult it will just be too frustrating.

But if it is too near you can just retry 10000x and never get a time to think "hey, before going there to beat this boss, what should I do different?"

My two cents.

>>376563945
>Lost Bastille bonfire

Does anything more really need to be said?

>>376564017
Fun for you. Janky controls and spooky atmosphere make it stressful for me
>inb4 pussy
I said stressful not shit my pants

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>>376563945
>tfw I was fucking tired of that shit that time
>get to the top of sens
>FUCK WHERE IS THIS BULLSHIT
>theres a message there from an anon pointing where to fall to get to the bonfire

I love you anon, wherever you are, you saved my first playthrough.

>>376563235
a game that isn't fun fails as a game

>>376557569
theres a few things you can do

If you got killed really quickly maybe you are underleveled/poorly leveled?

maybe you werent doing a lot of damage? try a different damage type and different resin or apply resins

If you have online, put down a white soap sign. Co op is helpful for learning how a boss works without much risk

If running back is too much of a hassle look up a youtube guide or git gud. The only time running to a boss got annoying for me was when i was trying to beat the 4kings at sl4, and that wasnt the games fault for having the boss room be far away.

>>376564229
because you don't like it?

>>376564232
>sl4

What class and what kinda run?

>>376564080
The bonfire to the Lost Sinner is a great example of bad bonfire placement. Spawn in front of 3 archers. Wait for the long as fuck elevator. Trudge through water with the monsters and the exploding knees that do massive damage. Short run across the bridge and then FINALLY you can fight the Lost Sinner again.

>>376564301
because according to anon, they aren't designed to be fun.

>>376564048
it's fucking before the gate with the seal of artorias.

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>>376563634
Entire New Londo a shit
Faggots ghosts attacking from walls.

>>376564345
I was cosplaying as the crest fallen warrior so base level warrior with chainmail set, heater shield, longsword, and sometimes a bow.

Shovel Knight handles checkpoints better. No long stretches before the boss and people feeling ballsy can destroy checkpoints for more gold at the cost of not being able to use them. dark souls should've done that.

>>376564378
>respawn on bonfire with archers shooting at you
ds2 devs were literally retarded

>>376564471
but he is lvl 65 when hollow

>>376564397
See >>376564163

>>376564584
cant invade the burg or parish at sl 65

>>376563918
There's even more than I said.
>Take elevator from firelink to gargoyles, fight nothing but mindless hollows so if you die, you suck
>Unlock an elevator to right next to artorias
>Bonfire right next to manus
Your entire argument at this point is I suck and there's no bonfires close to the bosses, even though there are plenty

>>376564424
I know

>>376558086
Almost every boss in DS3 has some sort of nearby shortcut to a bonfire that lets you come back to the gate with little to no trouble.

>>376564649
my argument was that there are no bonfires in valley of drakes and new londo and i have no idea why are you talking about bonfires near bosses

>>376564648
yeah, i have a lvl 13 lautrec. i think i finished the game at lvl 6 or 7, then i got some more levels for some reason, i think it was to use the shotel, or to not fat roll

>>376557569
>get killed within 30 seconds because i'm not familiar with the moveset yet

I don't understand why you're doing step 2.

Why not just remove that step? It seems like that would solve your problem.

>>376563003
Holy fuck this is autistic. To make an even better penalty lets make the player wait 20 minutes before respawning !

>>376558913
Is that why there are fog gates that aren't for bosses? Only once did I ever think there'd be a boss behind a fog gate when there wasn't, every other time it's pretty obvious.

>>376565016
or better yet, have the player start over from the beginning every time they die. git gud faggots.

>>376565016
It's already been discussed that this is not the same because you are not being engaged not are you playing the game by just waiting on a timer. That's not a proper argument.

>>376565148
This isn't an argument either. You already earned that checkpoint. The game doesn't take that away from you. But of you want to make it to the next checkpoint you have to make it past this hurdle. For some that hurdle is a load of enemies and a stage. For other checkpoints that hurdle is a boss. In both scenarios you earn your way to the next step and you always keep the progress you already earned.

>>376564913
I thought you were OP. Sorry

>>376565162
if the player is going to repeat the same shti they already know how to do, it might as well be a countdown. the point is that it's a wast of time.

>>376565162
Oh, right. You have to hold down sprint the entire time too, now that is a good penalty.

>>376565993
>376566000
These digits were almost yours and they are now lost forever.

>>376560856
THIS

>>376557569
>>get killed within 30 seconds
How is anyone this fucking retarded

I agree with >>376558438

The only egregious offender, however is O&S. It has the worst player death to return route relationship. An elevator, four halberd giants, and a knight archer along the route that's at least three minutes of pure sprinting, assuming you have perfect elevator timing and all enemies whiff you. Yes, I know about the skip from Solaire's bonfire, but you have to look that up to even guess that that's possible.

Even Four Kings has a much more obvious skip, it's shorter, and the mobs on the way drop titanite chunks and they're much easier to sprint past.

Beyond that, it isn't an issue. If you could find a way to hack bonfires next to every single boss fog, you would feel vindicated but I guarantee there would be less satisfaction and relief upon defeating the boss.

Dark Souls challenges you mechanically and mentally. The latter is extremely important to the essence of the game, which is the true reason it has its monumental place in the context of video games. Easier travel would deteriorate it.

>>376566413
>wat is hyperbole? - the post

>>376566525
I'm sorry but you're still retarded
You don't even have to do the speedrun jumping skip, just go through the side room with the spear Silver Knights

>>376566525
then make the bosses harder.

>>376566525
what if the boss had more health that would result in the fight taking 3 minutes longer but the bonfire was outside?

the boss would last longer, making the stakes just as high in terms of time spent, except actual gameplay would take place instead of holding sprint

>>376557569
>bro is playing dark souls
>expect him to have a hard time with the usual difficult bosses
>he doesn't because he grinded souls and leveled up a lot more than me
It's an RPG

>>376565993
Read. The. Fucking. Thread. This was JUST addressed less than 50 posts ago.

>>376566838
Try playing some Ys games, they're fun

>>376566525
You don't even need the jump skip from the stairs, the run from Solaire is shorter regardless

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>>376566413
Are you saying you've never gotten booshwookied at least once, by any boss, in any of the souls games?

>>376557569
Because fuck you that's why.

>>376557569

>HURR DURR guys im such a casual, why is there no quicksave button so i dont get punished for my mistakes. All this is doing is wasting my time forcing me to get better and stronger by making me fight enemies and powering myself up. Shit design

>>376566874
what you don't seem to understand is that running past enemies is not engaging after a certain point, there are some runbacks in this game that are minutes long and there is literally, LITERALLY nothing to them other than sprinting

your post also didn't address the time aspect which is most people's main complaint, how is fighting a boss that takes ~10 minutes to kill with a ~2 minute runback better than a boss that takes ~12 minutes to kill with a bonfire outside his bossgate?

>>376563918
I thinkby open the door and go up the stairs he means the inside door with the silver spear knights behind it. Its a short run and the enmies are easily avoided except 2 knights, and a sword and spear knights are easily parried

>>376566845
You can smack bosses up good and hard if you grind your levels.

The Painted World of Ariamis has 10,000 Souls per phalanx run, plus guaranteed Large Titanite from the knight.

You can go up to about level 100 relatively quickly by doing that.

I don't think you people realize that if you're not strong enough to beat the boss, you're not supposed to run past the enemies in the way, you're supposed to kill them to save up souls to level up.

>>376567185
Name a single boss with a 2 minute runback

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>>376563945
>Playing Sens Fortress for the first time
>Get to the top after 10+ tries and falling to the bottom a billion times
>20,000 souls
>Can't find the bonfire, fall and die off a ledge while rolling up stairs
>Respawn in Undead Parish
>Die to the first trap in the Fortress

>>376567435
The run to nito was at least 2 minutes of pure sprinting.

>>376567682
>dying to nito
Come on, he's like the easiest boss in the entire game at that point.

The only places I'd place new bonfires are right before New Londo on that broken tower before the first ghosts, and right before Bed of Chaos cause even the devs will admit that boss is total shit, so just let us respawn before it and get it over with.

>>376567725
He was harder than O&S for me. Oh also the run to seath was more than 2 minutes, but I only died to him once.

>>376567775
The run to Bed of Chaos is literally 40 seconds long you whiny bitch

>>376567435
>gwyn
>manus (if using the town bonfire to avoid the mage sniper guy)
>artorias
>bed of chaos (if you don't find hidden bonfire)
>moonlight butterfly (if you don't find hidden bonfire)
>quelaag
>O&S
>four kings
>nito (longer if you don't find hidden bonfire)
>iron golem (without hidden bonfire)
>seath(longer than two minutes)

>>376557569
Artificial difficulty

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dude
hitboxes
lmao

>>376567882
>using the town bonfire
Are you retarded son? Just roll through his stupid magic

>>376567989
yeah i'll roll through his attacks that i have no way of knowing are coming across an incredibly narrow walkway

the other bonfire isn't much better timewise btw

>>376567868
40 seconds is too long for worst boss in the series.
Are you seriously telling me you wouldnt want to spend less time at Izalith if you could?

I actually beat all the enemies on the runback to bosses all the way to AL (I even slapped the slimes in the depths when I died to Gaping Dragon)
But I stopped that and started running past enemies then because the big dudes are just too annoying

>>376567868
I must not have found the closest bonfire, cause I had to run through the lava, past those weak creatures and up the stairs and each time it took ~2 minutes

>>376568098
Yeah I was about to say, the bonfire with the mage guy is still almost 2 minutes

>>376568224
it's a fucking bullshit bonfire hidden behind an invisible wall lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUNhsMioBSU

>>376567882
And to add to your point, of those the ones that you can run past with almost 0 interaction from enemies, resulting in 2+ minutes of pure nothing are
>manus
>artorias (ok 2 enemies that die in 1 hit)
>moonlight
>nito
Probably more that I can't recall at the moment

My favorite playthrough in DS1 was to run around with a greatshield and poke everything to death with a halberd or with the claymore 1HR2
Someone tell me the best weapons for long relatively fast pokes in DS2

>>376559331
are you a literal goldfish?

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>>376557569
Why don't games auto save every 10 seconds for me?

Especially if the game isn't even that difficult, the massive majority of mob enemies can be ran/rolled past if I don't want to deal with them and nearly all bosses are hilariously vulnerable to shield strafing

Seriously though the boss run bonfires are fine, the only ones worth complaining about are the latgame ones where everything else is shit anyways like the Izalith bonfires (have to keep switching rings out every time you die) and the complete lack of any nearby bonfires for New Londo which is technically okay because that makes sense thematically and there IS a pretty major shortcut but the closest bonfire still requires an elevator ride/reset so that's pretty inexcusable[/spdoiler]

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*blocks your path*

If you know what you're doing you can access bosses pretty easy. Gargoyles from Firelink, Quelagg from Valley, etc.

Then once you get lordvessel you basically teleport everywhere you've already been. If you're complaining about anor londo or sen's they are deliberately set out the way they are to increase the difficulty. Ornstein/Smough are at the end of a challenge room, and the nearest bonfire is outside Gwyndolin.

Infact the moment you get the lordvessel you can warp right to Gwyndolin and try to fight him. Wouldn't advise it tho. Nearly all bonfires are placed with nearby shortcuts or junctions. Your suggestion would require a bonfire at much more regular intervals. I can't think of many that are deliberately placed to make things easy for you.

I hated the Crystal Cave runup to Seath

>>376568606
> lightning spear/soul arrow
or
> poison arrows

Get high toxic resist, spam projectiles. Also if you approach from Drake Valley you never see them.

>>376568728
>2 minutes of nothing then a big room full of clams

pure evil

>>376568685
>and the nearest bonfire is outside Gwyndolin
lol
how are there so many faggots in this thread who never explored AL even a tiny bit and didn't open the door to the stairs from Solaire's bonfire?

>>376568606
I don't know if my playstyle is weird or what, but I thought blighttown was one of the better places in the game. I was finally fighting enemies that weren't just boring, weakass humanoids.

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1.Before a boss battle, quit the game so it saves.
2. Then go to Documents\NBGI\DarkSouls and set your save file to "Read only".
3. Fight and alt+f4 if you die.
Have fun with the boss battle without actually wasting the limited amount of time you are given on this earth, and after beating the boss remember to uncheck "Read only" on your save file.

>>376568853
Were you turtling? I was and I didn't think it was too bad
Only played it way after release though, so no FPS problems

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>>376568728
>First time gong for the chest that has the magic titanite slab after the invisible twisting catwalk
>Figured out the trick with the prism stones, light my path two inches at a time
>Finally make it, drenched in sweat
>Take a breather, come back with a drink
>All my stones timed out
>I had like 70k souls and no homeward bones
>Wasn't even using a magic build

>>376568829
>Also if you approach from Drake Valley you never see them
There's one that will fire at you on the way down, and you'll see lots if you take that quick detour to get the firekeeper soul

>>376568930
I fought every enemy if that's what you mean. I also played it way after release, only finished a few weeks ago.

>>376568853
> pick a mage build.
> large enemies with much HP go down like a sack of shit.
> get fucked by swarms of small enemies.

Huh.

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>>376568606
*blocks your dart*

>>376565737
video games are a waste of time

stop playing them and do something with your life

>>376569050
Turtling means running everywhere with a shield up and attacking faggots when they glance off it
>>376569000
Just look at the messages on the invisible path sillyhead

>>376569005
> on the way down.

You need to climb ONE ladder. Watch a speedrun and you'll see how you can do it safely.

>>376567435
artorias

>>376560856
>>376561013
>>376566302
Are you fucking telling me you're ALWAYS on your last life when you get to the bosses?

>>376558402
>he died to Dragonslayer Armor
and youre preaching to someone about getting gud. Perhaps Skyrim is more your pace.
kys faggot

>>376568538
If you died more than once, or at all, in moonlight butterfly you deserved to die.

>>376569054
I was typical knight build at that point. I think I'm just weird, since my hardest non-DLC boss was also gaping dragon. Took me like 12 tries vs 10 for O&S, and on NG+ it took me 3 vs O&S 2 tries.

>>376569142
Oh yeah that is what I did.

>>376569000
You had to watch the snow falling

>>376569148
I'm not saying its a problem, I just always see one that fires at me when I go through that way. He usually doesn't even hit since there's a lot of scaffolding in the way.

>>376569054
>play full INT build
>towards the end it's way more efficient to just upgrade an OP weapon like the scythe or something to enchanted and only use magic for nuking bosses or the occasional ranged AI fuckery

>>376558086
think ds3 had bonfires right next to most of its bosses. I cant remember doing many run backs at all.

>>376562885
because we've already discussed to death the actual problems with the game and now anytime someone brings up something knew it tends to be fucking stupid shit thought up by retards
like op

>>376557569
>upwards of 2 minutes

Well it's not like you're doing anything else useful with that time.

>>376563945
I always felt that bonfire was kinda pointless, because you can just unlock the cage lifts anyway.

>>376569339
There are areas where magic is simply the more efficient weapon. Tomb of the Giants for example with Soul Spear is so much more clean.

>>376569283
I think I did the exact same thing as you
Imagine how annoying blighttown would have been if you were a dodgefag, you'd probably roll off the platforms 50 times
>gaping dragon
Did you stay far away to anticipate his moves? That's what I did, leading to him frequently doing the flying stomp which I'm STILL not sure how to properly dodge. I died most often to him as well

>>376569454
It's because Anor Londo can fuck you up even at the outset if you don't just run.

Fighting 3 sentinels can be fun.

>>376563049
>Ride elevator up to boss which takes 2 seconds
>all past the supposed "impenetrable" defense the Lothric Knights set up as a last stand to protect the Princes
>defending such garbage design for the sake of convenience
kys

>>376569543
> be a dodgefag.
> most of the enemies kill themselves falling off platforms trying to attack me in melee.

Or backstab them off.

>>376569341
DS3 had too many bonfires in general. I can guarantee its the main reason people find it easier than previous games.

>>376558913
Shame that wasn't the case in DS2 or DS3

>>376569165
Are you going to actually make a rebuttal to anon's point?

>>376569543
Oh yeah that does actually make sense. I barely dodged until I was forced to for Artorias. And that's exactly what happened to me with gaping dragon too kek

man, DS1 got so much easier when I realized the bigger the enemies are the closer you need to get to them
>die to Stray demon a bunch of times because I keep trying to dodge his axe swing backwards, which of course fucks me up with the shockwave
>easy as fuck if you just hug his legs from behind
>Quelaag can't even hit you with her sword if you hump her spider's head
>Big Ornstein ineffectually swinging in front of him while you hug his leg from behind

>>376563690
go play some faggy turnbased shitter jrpg then faggot.

>>376569543
also.
> dying to gaping dragon.

He got me once. Take his tail and it seems to fuck up his attack patterns.

>>376569734
i'm pretty sure the 4king's homing missile attack can't hit you if you stay really close to them either

>>376569576
But they don't even wake up unless you go directly next to them. Even on my first playthrough I didn't wake them up, because I thought they were just decoration, and went straight for the anor londo bonfire.

>>376562885
hang yourself

>>376569709
>until I was forced to for Artorias
Why's that? I had the Greatshield of Artorias and just needled him to death while laughing at how little stamina damage I took
>>376569807
>and it seems to fuck up his attack patterns
Are you sure that's due to the tail? if you mean that he always does his silly slam + run foward attack in an endless cycle, that happens if you stay close to him

>>376563865
This. Dark Souls 2 was a gigantic fucking turd. Let's not forget enemies with 8526872698528854 HP because why not. DS2 had absolutely none of the tension DS1 did, and in its place threw annoyance.

>>376563690
Because all the bosses are either insane or demons/gods/abhumans/dragons.

Ordinary humans do not feature as bosses.

>>376561641
literally put your shield up and backstep away fro mthe boss to watch his moveset. no reason to die to every new move a boss has unless you are being stupid.

>>376569898
It also happens if you run around him outside his arm sweeps when he can't fuck you with the tail. He can still get you with the vomit tho.

at what level did you fight havel for the first time? I remember finding him and getting hyped because I heard stories about being smashed, but I was so high-level at that point that he posed no problem
could even block his overhead with my shield without completely draining my stamina lel

>>376569898
I had the black knight greatshield and each attack easily took 40+% of my stamina bar, and how relentlessly and quickly he attacked.

>>376569283
Gaping dragon was a pretty huge difficulty spike on my first since I got cursed before I got to him and all his moves 1 shot me so I had to do a perfect fight against him, which in hindsight really isn't that hard but it was the most intense shit my first time through

>Game tells me I'm cursed and should go to New Londo
>Have no idea where the fuck that is
I ended up just buying a purging stone off of the Moss Lady

>>376569657
The reason why the game is easier is because they balanced the areas assuming people would fucking use the Ashen Estus Flasks and the dank WAs which are all garbage, and assuming people would miss Estus Shards and Undead Bone Shards which, since they are not compensated by lifegems, are more punishing on you if you don't find them. They learned their lesson with the Ringed City and that's why it's kinda rough. They put in the +3 rings assuming you would explore enough to find them, so they can make the bosses are areas harder since, logically, you should have those.

>>376570213
6 lol. Was hoarding souls.

>>376570227
Well next time you're being a turtle you should get more END

>>376570262
I was playing a little while ago. Went down to new londo and nope'd hard.

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Remove the human only requirement to getting invaded, but reduce the time between bonfires and the boss by half. Soulsborne games fixed forever. You're welcome.

>>376570314
This. Havel's Ring is really fucking bad for turtling until you reach high levels. You NEED that stamina.

>>376570448
that sounds fucking awful

>>376570376
did you get to the ghost funhouse? it's not even hard but it made me quit the game for a few days because I was just so fucking appaled at such a bullshit mechanic
>hurr durr this ghost is attacking you through a wall where you can't hit it or through the fucking ceiling

>>376569543
>>376569709
You are supposed to change your playstyle for every boss/area. For some bosses like Artorias and O&S, being a dodgefag is beneficial. For others like 4kangz and Nito, you need to be a poisefag.

>>376570448
And now the invaders get sent home all the time because the host always gets to the boss in no time. Genius.

>>376570560
Can't handle getting invaded?

>>376568853
No, you're right. The progression in Dark Souls 1 was incredibly done. Afterwards your enemy is a castle full of traps. Then a palace filled with really tough humanoids that refine whatever skillset you're mastering, be it dodge, block, or parry. The darkroot forest makes the biggest threat actual players. Soon you go to new Londo and have to figure out how to fight ghosts. Eventually in the Demon Ruins you fight literal bosses as normal enemies now. In the Duke's Archives, your biggest challenge is the environment.

Dark Souls 2 is a fucking joke in comparison.

>>376570639
The invaders should just git gud and catch the host :^)

To be fair, you can run past most enemies.
I've compiled a list which state how many enemies at most you'd have to face between the nearest bonfire and the boss.

Stray Demon:
0
Taurus Demon:
x7 hollow
Bell Gargoyles:
x1 Balder Knight
Group of hollows
Moonlight Butterfly:
0
Capra Demon:
x2 thief
x2 dog
Gaping Dragon:
0
Chaos Witch Quelaag:
0
Grey Greatwolf Sif:
0
Sen's Fortress:
x1 hollow
Anor Londo:
x2 silver knight
Pinwheel:
x2 Skeleton
Gravelord Nito:
0
Seath the Scaleless:
0
Four Kings:
x1 Darkwraith
Ceaseless Discharge:
0
Centipede Demon:
0
Bed of Chaos:
0
Gwyn:
x2 black knight

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>>376569283
>Summoned some rando named JC Denton right before Gaping Dragon
>Killed it in one try
>>376570213
30 something. I destroyed him with 5+ pyromancy.

>>376566413
if you had bothered to play any of the games you would know he isnt retarded for getting BTFO by some bosses in 30 seconds

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>>376570448
>Remove the ability to opt out of areas that are notorious for awful invasions

>>376570658
>Eventually in the Demon Ruins you fight literal bosses as normal enemies now
What was up with the 10 fucking non-respawning minor taurus demons at the bottom of Ceaseless's hangout? That was so goddamn stupid, I think I laughed more at that than the 50 million fire-breathing statues on the way to BoC

>>376570901
git gud :^)

>>376557569
Because it's too videogamey and not immersive. Souls games are supposed to be really immersive.

>>376570448
Apart from several other problems with your casualization proposal, DS2 already changed invasions to not take humanity into account. It was a stupid fucking system that failed miserably. It should work exactly like it did in DS1 with the exception being NPC invaders, and making duel summoning be completely independent of having killed the boss.

>>376570929
To intimidate new players from venturing further into an area they're not ready for. Subtle way of directing the player back to Sen's fortress instead of going though a higher level area. Also they guard the loot that's there.

It's douchy to compare Megaman to Dark Souls, but there are similarities in that these aren't particularly hard games, it's just that you have to have an ounce of patience and ability to learn patterns.

Both games want to punish you for dying. Why? They want you to learn the game in such a way that you don't die, they ultimately don't want you slamming your head against the boss unless you get lucky and win. Dark Souls will have you start way back at a bonfire before a boss and Megaman's lives system will have you restart the entire level if you die too many times.

What do you do if you keep losing and the boss fight seems too utterly hopeless? In both of these games you can go to a different area and fight another boss instead, gain new weapons/powers and then fight the boss that gave you so much trouble and it might be easier.

I absolutely adore this formula. As an aspiring game developer myself, I am utilizing this stance of "if it's too hard, just do a different level and come back to that later"-approach. I think more games should work this way.

>>376570997
>removal of the humanity based invasion system means implementing some stupid souls based invasion system
uh no. The only thing I would implement would be having a cap on wearable gear like an invader can't use items that are reinforced 5 levels higher than whatever the host has. It doesn't have to be fair, but getting invaded by a full +14 giant dad on your first play through is just cancer.

>>376571323
That really doesn't happen very often. Fuck off. DS1's system was nearly perfect.

I don't think people understand, its not difficult to run back to the boss, its just tedious.

>>376571323
>Die a small handful of times to overpowered invaders in the course of a 30 hour+ playthrough
>WAHHHH WAHHHHHHHHH IT'S TOO HARD BROKE SYSTEM

>>376571461
don't put yourself in the position where you're grinding out boss fights again and again. If after a few tries it's too much for you, go do something else and come back to it.

>>376571407
>can opt-out of invasions because "lol no humanity"
>nearly perfect

>>376571519
>asking for more invasions means I'm asking for the game to become easier
Woah soulstards really make me think

>>376571407
It should be mix of SL and equipment. While DaS had the best invasion system, you could still get surfed pretty easily.

>>376571519
What exactly constitutes a "small" handful of times of dying in a videogame? How many virtual deaths fit into a small hand?
Handful in that context already means small you faggot

>>376571407
I dont think I've ever been invaded in Burg or Parish and had it not be a twink with maxed fire/lightning weapon and upgraded armor.
Everywhere else its usually fine, but Burg and Parish invasions are always maximum onesided.

There are literally only 3 boss runs in the entire series that my brain even bothers to register due to their tedium. Gwyn, Blue Smelter and Lud/Zallen and in the latter one the sheer fear of failure sends me into an intense cold sweat. The frigid outskirts still suck though.

>>376571691
3-8 times

>>376571813
That last one gives a fear of failure because every failed attempt means you have to go through horse cock valley again. The worst fucking area in that DLC.

I did a SL1 playthrough of Dark Souls 1 and then afterwards, for fun, I invaded in the Undead Burg with my pimped SL1 character sporting +5 ascended pyromancy flame and Elite Knight Armor (back when you could ninja-flip at 50% equip load and I had my character min-maxxed at like 49.99%)

I toyed with the newbie who I invaded for a while. Being virtually unkillable and I soulsucked all of his humanity with my Dark Hand and then one-shotted him with a 800some damage Great Combustion (Crown of Dusk + Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring on the aforementioned +5 ascended Pyromancy Flame. I only did this once. It was amusing.

It was pretty messed up the kinda twinking you could do in DS1. The worst was dudes who would go NG+++++ on a SL20-ish character for a bunch of Wrath of Gods to spam in low level invasions. That's probably the scummiest shit that anybody could do.

>>376571659
You can opt out in later games infinitely by burning human effigies. You can die as much as you want and go human to summon 4 phantoms like a little bitch with zero risk.

Fuck off you casual.

>>376572071
No shit, that's the most masochistic shit-hole in all of the games. My first run of it was on NG++, the suffering was very real.

>>376571659
>Can opt out of invasions because "lol burn an effigy"
>Thinks this is a good system
Noob detected

>>376572142
Yeah, but this was far from a common thing, so it was okay. The sequel went full retard because "WAHH INVADERS RUIN MY EXPERIENCE"

>>376572179
I've never summoned you double casual. Limit phantoms to 1 at max if you're so afraid. Also I don't understand what you're mad about. I'm literally asking for the REMOVAL of opt-outs. Get your panties out of a twist.

>>376565016
So, das2?
>lost half your life learning to kill the boss
>Waste more than 20minutes farming effigies to try again properly

>>376557569
Dunno about directly outside the fog gate but yes, short backtracking makes the bosses more enjoyable

>>376563049
to be fair the demon princes are fucking bullshit anyway, not to mention running around and trying to find and kill the slimy tree things that spawned the angels with the 50 lance homing missiles.

>>376571407
>That really doesn't happen very often.
Yeah let me doubt that. This type of twinking PvP system usually ends up being abandoned by the crowd that cba to always twink out their gear for maximum performance at their current level.

All that are left is le git gud meme people with their one shot characters that scare away any newcomers to ever try and start playing PvP.

DS PvP part is a niche feature that is killed by human nature.

>>376558705
Dark souls has "set levels," but they're more immersive since there isn't a specific hub world, with the exception of Firelink Shrine. It makes sense that once the game adds the ability to instantly warp between many bonfires (after you beat O and S) it gets less fun for many people.

>>376557569
This is correct. This thread has been had hundreds of times and not once has someone given a legit reason as to why this should not be the case.

Replaying content you've already beat isn't fun or challenging, it's annoying. MGR was 10x harder then dark souls ever was and that had checkpoints every 5 seconds because it was designed properly.

>>376559698
but then you'd still have to run back to rest at the bonfire, and OP's issue is that he has to do that

>>376572513
No, you want to remove the idea of punishing people for using humanity. Lel let me just stay Hollow all game cause cause it makes no difference XD

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>>376569183

It's funny how this still remains relevant so many years later.

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>>376562303
>imagine if every time you died a countdown appeared that would count down from 5 minutes before you could play the game again, except in order to get it to countdown you had to hold the sprint button the entire time

But that's not what happens at all. You might as well say "all video games are boring, imagine if all you had to do was push some buttons in a specific order so that you win." Each boss has a specific run and different enemies, patterns, and spacing. I only had to learn the "run" to a boss for Demon Firesage and Nito, and both were stressful enough to make the fights extra meaningful and fun to me.

>>376563125
>why do people buy survival horror games

>>376572367
>The sequel went full retard because "WAHH INVADERS RUIN MY EXPERIENCE"

What? Those who didn't want invaders just never turned human. Not like you lose much from being hollow forever.

They tried to fix it because PvP was a powerhouse gankfest. Not saying they succeed in fixing it but still DS1 PvP was all about griefing new players.

DaS1 bosses aren't hard enough to warrant it. That game is more about surviving and knowing an area well enough to reach the boss with enough resources to survive it.

Later games ended up being so concerned about boss difficulty that you could indeed throw a bonfire next to them. In fact, many areas are designed with a shortcut leading directly back to the original area bonfire specifically for that reason.

>>376573007
You would still need humanities for certain builds and for kindling. I'm not sure what you're so buttflustered over. First you say I'm trying to bring more opt-outs, but when I clearly tell you it's the opposite you move the goalpost to something else. If you want humanities so badly kill some bosses or rats.

>>376573198
No it wasn't

>>376572142
>The worst was dudes who would go NG+++++ on a SL20-ish character for a bunch of Wrath of Gods to spam in low level invasions
I fucked around with my SL120 character for PvP and jesus christ some people had so many fucking casts of that thing I would just be rolling through the constant spell spam wondering how they had the patience to get all of them. Normally they'd presumably run out after about 9 casts, but I ran into a few people who spammed it nearly two dozen times.

It's like they're trying to kill people by attrition. Three spells won't do it, but maybe after he dodges the 13th one he'll get bored, stop paying attention and get wrecked.

>>376572367
Wasn't the soul memory only bad if you tried to be scum like he mentioned? Why is that a bad thing? Unless you need to outgear your opponent because you are that awesome.

never played DS2 so i am legit curious why was that a bad system

>>376574550
Soul Memory wasn't really that big of a deal, honestly, but it does tend to frighten people due to hypothetical scenarios.

Like, what if you really really really like co-op'ing for a particular boss and you co-op so many times that your Soul Memory gets out of the range of people who are likely to play through that area.

You could use the Agape Ring to remedy this, but then there is totally zero reward for co-oping.

Realistically, you could play through those co-op areas A LOT before getting out of the Soul Memory range of the masses, to the point where you'd be tired of that area by then, but people still don't like that constraint on them.

Meanwhile, in DS1, you could be SL50-ish and get to have fun co-oping for Ornstein and Smough all day long, every day of the week, without any fear of a Soul Memory stopping you from co-oping with people.

>>376574550
Soul Memory basically made staying at a certain PvP level impossible, and even further fucked you over if you used consumables, or the hexes that cost souls. So if, for example, you like invading a certain area at level 20 and use resins or firebombs or whatever fairly often, eventually your soul memory will increase to the point where there's no one to invade for that area, or you'll be matched up against people who are in the same soul memory bracket but higher level.

>>376574550
IIRC soul memory was based all souls ever gotten not souls ever spent. So you could gets souls and lose them but still go up.

>>376570648
>>376570725
>>376570981
Fuck off faggot.

>>376571323
can't handle daddy's longsword?

I love destroying noobs like you.

>>376576142
>longsword
lmao

>>376557569
Is there any real reason why From hasn't done a Boss Rush mode for any of their games yet? I just want to fight the cool bosses without having to slog through the shit areas each time I do a run.

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>>376576142
>using longsword
Your "noobdestroyer" stereotype for today.

>>376564117
that area has 4 bonfires, 2 of them are secret, which is unforgivable

>>376570268
I dunno about that. DS1 basically allowed you 10 estus flasks from firelink shrine onwards as long as you kindled your bonfires, which getting humanities for wasnt that hard. Firekeeper Souls also boosted the amount of HP estus healed a lot more than Undead Bone Shards did.

>>376577676
Five, actually, and only one is "secret"

>he needs to die 10 times before learning the moveset
You should know what it does long before your first death

>>376577992
well said

>>376575841
not an argument

>>376565016
>>Holy fuck this is autistic.

How so?