What the fuck was ActiBlizzard thinking with the endless Artifact

>>376367897
>we need a way to skinner box our players until the next raid tier

>>376367897
Is it that bad?

I just got 110 on my demon hunter, been playing with a few mates for shits and gigs. I watched the required artifact power jump from 1,000 to 8,000 and I was like "uhmmmmmmmm". How high does it go?

>>376368376
Hundreds of millions

>>376368376
30 mil +

>>376367897
What the fuck in this game isn't fuckloads of grinding? From Vanilla all the way till right now. Its always been time gated bullshit. Only get 5 of x a day but you need 25 to get the next quest. Its all so any retards can do everything in the game but it still takes a while anyway.

>>376368376
I'm at the 180 mil level now. Have fun goyim.

>>376367897
That MMO players are literal no-life addicts who use MMOs as a stand-in for a real life. Instead of actual jobs they do fake jobs, and instead of real social interaction they substitute it for false online interaction. That's what they think.

And you know what? They're not wrong.

The skinner box is there to keep your mind off the fact that if you're playing this beyond a casual level ("hardcore", as if a game could ever be described in such a way) that your life is a spiral of never ending volcanic shit that sucks the light of hope and joy from it with each passing moment.

As it has always been with MMOs. There was never a "golden age". There was never a "better time". MMOs have always been the internet transient's way of creating the facsimile of a life they'll never lead before their eventual suicide.

t. someone who had anywhere from 5 to 7k hours in WoW

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>>376368938
>mfw over a year of played time in wow

How did this happen.

>>376367897
unless you are in a """""hardcore""""" guild then you shouldn't be grinding jackshit

>>376368938
>False online interaction

In this day and age online interaction is pretty much the same as interacting with people irl. You sound like a typical normalfag desu.

>>376367897
What you're witnessing is the bare bones of the nu-MMO genre, as in WoW post-BC, where there is nothing to see but a treadmill you endlessly run on for little rewards.

It's funny to me because I think an MMORPG that really focused on being a deep RPG would do extremely well in popularity and, as a result, financially. We see a lot of single player open-world games these days that have cool little "WHOA TECHNOLOGY" bits, it would be very awesome to see that applied to an MMORPG.

>>376368938
>t. some ultra insecure fag projecting his own bullshit onto everyone else

>>376369529
Those 'WHOA TECHNOLOGY' bits are mostly possible because they aren't being rendered for hundreds/thousands of people on the same server at the same time.

>>376369703
>implying a modern MMO has even tens of players in one place, let alone hundreds

Why are people still playing this game? Are they just playing it because they're in a guild and feel like forced to play?

I've played one month and got bored, doing the same dungeons over and over again to farm AP is just boring

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>>376370637
> Addiction
I am one of them.

>>376367897
They dont care about making a good game, they make way more money by selling the expansion than monthly subscription.

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>>376371975
>tfw been playing with a core group of people for over 10 years
>tfw cannot escape or even want to

>>376367897
I fucking hate AP. I want to play but AP keeps me away along with all the RNG bullshit with loot.

They also fucked Warlocks.

>>376372608
They fucked ALL classes, and now they are the same.
I still can not understand why autists keep crying for new classes in each Expansion, considering that now all classes almost identical.

>>376372946
The amazing thing is they aren't even balanced despite the complete homogenization.

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>>376373073
>be blizzard
>in WoD say that there are too many spells and that's why the game is not balanced
>"we're going to prune some abilities so we have less knobs to deal with guys!!!!"
>actually, we only did this do make the game easier for retards, even though the people who are stupid STILL don't know how to do mechanics.
>actually, even though there are less spells in the game, it's still an imbalanced piece of shit. Now, NONE of the classes are fun anymore. Also, did I mention that one of our lead class designers plays on a tablet?
>PLEASE PLAY OUR GAME GUYS
>mfw

>>376367897
Tricking the player into thinking that they're accomplishing character growth. The last AP change proved that Blizzard doesn't want us to ever be "done" with something and the paragon system they added to reputations only reinforces that. If you think it's bad now wait until Tomb drops, then Blizz is gonna drop all pretense and turn the fucking game into World of Diablo III: We've Learned Nothing

>>376373504
I really just want to ask the development team why they're so incompetent but they don't listen. They never listen.

So I've just given up on Blizzard. They can't make a good game anymore. They don't have the intelligence for it.

>>376373504
>JUST

that hair edit is really good.

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>>376374060

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>>376373504
I hate this fucking guy, I have to play Frost mage a-fucking-gain and it's still boring as hell only this time it's broken on top of it. Good job guy, I hope he gets run over in the middle of the road an no one helps for hours. I just want to throw big fireballs and meteors while everything explodes and Blizzard are being cunts about it.

>>376368376
At 500m right now

>>376374204
Why are you playing WoW at all? What are you proving by still playing this game and bitching about it?

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>>376373504
>Only Legion class I like is WW Monk
>tfw it keeps fluctuating between good and shit
I dropped the game after EN but make up your fucking mind already

>>376367897
Thinking that Diablo 3 style number grinding (mind you, I occasionally enjoy playing D3) is what'll keep millions upon millions of players around in a genre that's no longer sustaining that kind of market share. Which is batshit retarded.

Of course this is all what made Warcraft so popular in the first place. Take the MMO genre, make everything hyper-accessible, give it a theme park feel, and keep giving people reasons to log on every day, starting with "bonus xp" (which was a penalty that they brand-changed) and moving onward.

So they took that formula and amped it up to 11. Unfortunately they just don't get it. MMOs are not the draw they once were. WoW was released when Gamespy was still a thing and Facebook was just launching the same year. Mobas and several other now-popular genres were just starting out.

So they tried to go back to the well and Double It, but the world's moved on.

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>>376374053
Yeah I've played on and off since release, game got progressively worse and worse after BC. Really, I did it to myself, but I always stuck around because I figured Blizzard was a good company, that they cared about their players (LOL). I constantly gave excuses to justify the shitty class design and imbalances. I quit early in Warlords because of how much of a joke it was, the garrison facebook bullshit, the mobile app game bullshit, the shitty writing. Then Legion came along and I genuinely enjoyed the game again for the first time in a very long time, except it just turned into more of the same old same old, only somehow worse. They managed to make it more of a chore to grind, they managed to utterly destroy PvP, they managed to fuck up most of the classes and specs with their gay ass "class fantasy" bullshit.

They play their userbase like a damn fiddle, I wish I'd seen it so long ago, but the damage is done. Fuck them. Especially with this piece of shit at the helm.

>>376374187
>Reverse search

Jesus christ it wasn't an edit at all

>>376368245
It's a shitty skinner box, what it does is actively kill the dopamine in your body so you never experience a rush for doing anything ever again.

Blizzard has to be the only company in existence with multiple very successful games still in circulation that other devs would murder their families to be a part of yet they don't give two fucking shits about. WoW and Diablo 3 (yes, D3 was successful) could be earning them tons of cash but they basically ignore them and put skeleton crews on making half-assed content because it's way easier to make another Hearthstone expansion and put more costumes in Overwatch.

>>376374595
I wish Overwatch people would see it already. Some have, but not enough to really do anything.

>>376373598
>World of Diablo III

God this is literally it. A bunch of friends who stopped playing all returned for legion and got really into it for a couple of months but when they realized its just Diablo RNG loot drop grinding they fucking bailed.

The upgrade system on loot needs to go, Random stats on loot needs to go. The AP Grind should be fucking fixed the amount required is currently ridiculous.

>>376367897
>>376374053
>>376374595
As someone that has pretty much been in your same situation, playing since 2007, I really want the game to hurry up and die. It's like a horse with all it's legs broken and given third world stilt replacements. It's not any good at all.

>>376369103
Is there a way to check this without going in game and looking at each chaarcter?

>>376370637
I've played since pretty much day 1 and I've no desire to come back at all, not even the timewalk raid and ability to xmog glaives can nudge me back to the boring, asocial shit WoW is.

>>376374559
Moved on to what? Every game I play seems like a shitty piece of crack. It will hold me over for a few days, I'll have an interesting time, but I always find myself coming back to wow because it's something I know, I know what I'm getting with that, if there's any form of disappointment then it's okay because it's in a controlled environment that I'm used to.

I stopped playing WoW once I looked at all the other games I could've been playing in the time I spent doing the same daily quests for worthless rewards for no real end-reward at all other than the opportunity to do MORE of that shit.

>>376374887
At least Overwatch is a one and done deal. I bought it at release, enjoyed it casually for a while and got sick of it. It really has nothing on older FPS. Too repetitive. About as much depth as a kiddie pool. I pity anyone who actually buys their loot boxes. I wonder how much cash they rake in on those stupid things.

>>376374887
>I wish Overwatch people would see it already. Some have, but not enough to really do anything.
Nerf Lucio to shit tier and make Hanzo useful. That's all you really need to do to make Overwatch fags be aware about how Blizzard treat their games.

>>376374486
Just stick with Shadow Priest, the only way they can make it shit and not fun to play is to completely rework the whole thing.

>>376374360
I play with friends, also I'm a complete fag and want to see where the story goes.

>>376374897
The upgrade system on loot needs to go, Random stats on loot needs to go.
Warforged and Titanforged affixes on items was the worst fucking idea they ever had and I have no idea why it's still around when no one I know enjoys them. Blizzard is bitching about there being too many tiers of raiding and numbers getting out of hand when one of the primary causes for these problems could be removed at any time.

>The AP Grind should be fucking fixed the amount required is currently ridiculous.
It should be removed entirely. Once you get your talents that should be the end of your interaction with your artifact beyond relics. This Concordance of the Legionfall nonsense needs to be fucking gone yesterday.

>>376374290
500m?! I just hit 2m nope nope fuck Blizzard artifact weapons are a mistake.

>>376375395
Artifact weapons are the biggest "fuck you, we own you, GOYIM!" move they've ever pulled.

>>376373504

Quit as soon as it came to light that this faggot was lead balance designer and played on a tablet.

It instantly became so clear why class balance in both PvE and PvP were absolute dogshit.

>>376367897
They needed a little bar that goes up to make you feel good about playing, even at max level

>>376375395
Around AK30 2 million AP is one world quest.

The purpose of Artifact Knowledge is to keep players subscribed even if they aren't doing anything until ToS is released at which point we'll be close to 40 AK and I'd imagine most people would just be a little out of reach of their Legionfall buff.

>>376375601
And they expect you to do this for 2 other weapons bad enough they screwed my main class and talent but all this terrible forms of grinding and luck based shit that makes Monster hunters 1% drop rates feel like a walk in the park.

>>376374859
I would imagine it's not that cold and sterile seeming as you make it seem. I don't doubt blizzard does care about d3 and wow, but I highly doubt they're allowed to put more resources into things like wow and diablo than hearthstone or overwatch. They have to answer to activision and overwatch, it's no different than any other company, they have quotas and all that shit to meet.

I fcking hate blizzard but I couldn't see them being able to pour their A team ideas into wow, getting little to no financial return from it and having someone get fired over it or some shit.

I dunno, video indrusty is shit now that they're so expensive to make.

>>376375989
Meant to say Have to answer to activision and investors* not overwatch, don't do crack anons.

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The problem is that there are no real competitor to WoW, and Blizzard know that. So they do wht they like to.
But to think it through, why there are no decent MMOs? There are PLENTY of good fantasy worlds: D&D, Disciples, Might & Magic (dont know about the new ones), Lord of the Rings and so on, but for some reason all we got are Neverwinter Online where you need to pay REAL money or some fucking Anime-Shit Final fantasy.

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There's nothing that can fix what Legion has done. Lore characters are dead, lore important weapons are just novelties now, we've explored all of Azeroth and now the entire concept of space travel exists making everything just much more convoluted if not outright retarded.

This is the last WoW expansion, it can't go anywhere else but turn into Starcraft now. Blizzard either has to hit the reset button or admit they don't give a fuck anymore. It's obvious they don't care, but they have to say it and stop lying to their retardedly loyal fanbase.

If the only thing they have to rely on anymore are the six games that exist and milking them for all they're worth, then they just need to pack up and close shop because that's not going to work anymore.

>>376375963
>Dual spec is outdated! We want you to be able to switch to whatever you need to play on the fly!
>Oh, but just make sure you grind a few billion AP points first or else you're useless!
>Oh, don't forget your relic slots!

Fuck. You. Blizzard.

>>376367897
Why I'm playing FFXIV now

It isn't even WoW anymore
>gold has inflated
>oh you need to be 890 for normal Emerald nightmare with AOTC and BoS legendaries.

Yeah and everyone bitched about WoD being terrible.

>b-but muh demon hunter
Go fuck yourself you illidan wannabe

Im 7/10 mythic and I like the game

>>376376174

lol are you and the guy that wrote this(also you?) retarded

>Diablo 3 annihilated sales records and sold 30m copies to date
>Hearthstone literally prints money and was put together with the coding equivalent. if it's on the way out it'll still generate free money all the while on cash shop whales
>wow still just lazily generates genre topping MMO sales even as a piece of dying shit. WoW dying numbers are what other MMOs consider successful. A dead MMO is something like Wildstar: 4 digits in unique accounts if you're lucky. cash shop harvests whales
>heroes sucks but oh well
>SC2 sold the same game three fucking times, all breaking 7 digits pretty handily, DLC cash shop harvests whales
>Overwatch is another break out hit that prints money with a cash shop

That's not going to work anymore? In what, another 5-10 years in the black?

>>376376458
>can't make his own raid

>>376376458
Demon hunters was a stupid inclusion hey lets make a class that's exclusive to two races

>>376376814
Exclusive to two of the most popular races, at that.

>>376376749
>implying I would want to lead a bunch of pugs

Yeah no fuck that headache.

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>>376367897
>2017
>playing world of kikecraft
made me chuckle sensibly irl

>>376376725
Heroes revenue and playerbase has increased dramatically since last year. It's not printing Hearthstone bux just yet but people are underestimating the amount of work that's being put into it every month.

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>>376368376
>>376368376
>How high does it go?

Caps at this, but after point 52 each point does barely anything and it's only bonus. No one will ever get this as 50 knowledge. You can get to 52 in 1 day easily at max knowledge.

>>376376942
>implying it should be any harder than a ready check and pull timer at every boss

>>376377267
>implying that I wouldn't get idiots who didn't know what they were doing on cenarius or xavius because pugs always fuck up on them

Go play the game and fuck off

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>>376377220
>4 billion

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>>376367897
Retards will pay for it, they just made some artificial grind to keep them busy so they can't complain about lack of content.

This game is just milking idiots who are still willing to pay for it at this point.

The real game died years ago.

>>376377397
If I could play right now I wouldn't be on here. Also your attitude is the reason people require 890 and AOTC, because they don't want any headaches.

>Can't even hide it on the Battle.net app
What a load of shit.

>tfw you know how to make a good game out of WoW and you want to tell people but you know it's pointless because disappointment is all that awaits your future

ya'll niggers got tricked by Blizzard once again, but I bet you'll buy the next expansion.

You're not even meant to grind it... You get it for every single thing you do. It's not Blizzard's fault retards grind all day. I only raid and do nothing else and I'm only 4 points behind people that grind all day.

>>376377220
>thought ppl were joking about millions of points
the fuck is this shit? i see single digit must be a possible drop, how many points is the average whatever it is you turn in worth?

>>376377930
They tricked me with MoP, but I'm done now. Three strikes and WoW's out of my life.

It's too bloated and Blizzard is too lazy and incompetent to fix it. So whatever.

>>376377930
I only bought the last expansion because a close friend pressured me to play with him. Then he quit one month into wod.

If it depended on me I would've stopped in mop.

There's absolutely no chance I'm buying another expansion for this game ever again, not after wod.

>>376377960
>i'm only this amount of bad compared to others

>>376377997
You get like 4 or 5 million per boss kill... and I'm pretty sure at max knowledge you will get like 50x that amount.

>>376377997
I've got an addon that I use for world quests and today it showed a total of 45 million AP that I could earn. This isn't even factoring in what you get from running your weekly Raids in all difficulties, weekly mythic dungeons and mythic+ dungeons.

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>>376377589
>grinding 4 billion of anything in a fucking video game

they came to /v/ and read all the ironic meme threads about how diablo 3 is better than diablo 2 and acted accordingly, thus ruining what little that was left of WoW that made it worth playing

>>376378332
>implying I didn't grind 4 billion zombies in vanilla to get from 55-60

>>376369703
The rendering is done client side. The only thing the server has to do is just send small messages to the client to tell it what to do.

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>>376378486
>being this mad about a shitty game no one plays

>>376378486
>mfw i maxed out at 47 in vanilla
i only played for about 3 months. dropped it for years, have droped it again.

>>376378332
You have to choose to grind, doing pretty much anything in broken isles give fucking AP.

>>376378486
>playing maplestory.mkv

>>376378132
The next 3 points are just utility shit, and trait 52 is a 1% DPS increse. Every point after 52 is a 0.1% dps increase.

Grinding is completely retarded since in 3 months you will be able to get what today takes an entire day of grinding in 1 minute.

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>>376367897
What I truly want to know is how the fuck did people see what the artifact weapon grinding actually consisted of and still decided to keep playing?

It makes no fucking sense, from a pure gameplay point of view from someone who loves video games, the artifact grind is something that is inherently unsatisfying for a player. The original feeling of "progress" is no longer there because the fucking grind itself is now endless. Your weapon is never going to be the best one anymore, because at this point it can now only keep getting better. Blizzard put so much reliance on this one gimmick weapon system that it makes players feel like they should be capping the fucking thing out every day. It resulted in people getting burnt out and feeling like everything you're doing that ISN'T raising artifact power is just a waste of time. I don't see how someone can prefer this method to the way we used to get weapons.

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The idea was to make sure players always had something to work towards and there is really no problem with the AP system other than being a little alt unfriendly.

The real problem legion was legendaries.

Good expansion all around though. Lots of steps in the right direction.

>>376378670
BUT I MUST FINISH MY ARTIFACT! ALL OF THEM!

I just want to write an essay on how shit WoW is and send it to the idiots who made Legion, but they won't read it. Someone needs to make them listen to how stupid they are.

>>376378332
>play FFXI
>need to grind literally 30 thousand pieces of flim flam to upgrade my relic to a less obsolete version
>still prefer that to the no content having garbage game that WoW has become
F to pay respects

>>376378597
The fact that you have to grind in order to do what you were already able to do, without any sort of bullshit, in the past, makes this current version of the game complete and absolute shit.

It doesn't matter how you try to twist it. Grinding to get something you already had is just retarded, and only retards would comply to that.

>>376378736
>>376378736
Have 9 legendarys, still waiting on my BiS, for just 1 spec

>>376378113
Same exact thing that happened to me with Legion they kept telling oh this will be a great expansion man come in play it, they will release demon hunters and etc fagots never even got to Surumar and only play Hero of storm and Overwatch.next expansion I won't even bother no matter how much they try to hype it.

>>376376115
Ashan (the new one) is very generic warcraft clone with nothing interesting in it. Ubi still owns the old M&M universe, and Heroes 7 flopped hardly so the only hope for the setting is if they decide to sell the rights. As long as Ubi holds the rights, there is no Might and Magic universe.

>>376378863
There's nothing wrong about grind if you are working towards a gradual process of endless progress. The bullshit starts when the arbitrary grinds becomes MANDATORY and after a few months completely obsolete.

Having no sense, whatsoever, of actual progress is just idiotic in an MMORPG.

>>376376115
>dont know about the new ones
good

>>376379149
it works in FFXI because FFXI has horizontal progression, where WoW still does retarded shit like up the level cap even though the game is a decade+ old now.

WoW is literally going to become ragnarok online at this point with the level 200 garbage and the insane grind for almost no pay off, and look how that worked out for RO, oh yeah everyone plays on private servers that are pre renewal

>>376379368
Developers resetting your months of work, and progress, whenever they feel like it, just to force you to grind it all over again?

Who the fuck, in his right mind, would subject himself to this level of bullshit?

>>376378869
Most of the traits are just straight percentage upgrades to abilities you already have, so there's absolutely no point in actively grinding for them.

>>376379757
Yes, it's endless progress for idiots.

There's absolutely no point in playing this game altogether.

>>376379902
It's not endless, you don't have to grind it, and it's not the only way you get more powerful.

I'm not really seeing why you're so mad.

>>376367897
They werent thinking anything because they dont care. Everyone could quit WoW right now and it wouldn't make a difference. They still made all the money they could ever want off of it.

The people who are playing now are the people who will never quit because they have invested too much into the game to just throw it all away. Blizzard knows this so they just put in the bare minimum amount of effort to keep the going. Time gates, endless grind ala paragon/etc.

>being so shit that your progress is how many traits your weapon has and not how many mythic raid bosses you've killed

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>>376378486
Grind in WoW always could be finished, they could be painful, but always temporary.

With AP you literally cannot in any way, but you must still do it every day just to keep up. You also can't have a BiS gear, and can't even stop running dungeons, because all those titanforged crap and there is always a chance for better loot. You must even do the same dailies, this doesn't stop once you reach exalted, because the rewards also scale. You can't finish anything, you can't put a checkmark on a list and be done with something, you run the same shit that you did in the first week forever. WoW is hell, I quit after 3 months.

>>376376247
relics are the only half decent thing about artifacts, better than the old relic system, just get rid of the artifact shit and let me equip those for +X% to whatever abilities i want

>>376380005
>It's not endless, you don't have to grind it
I'm not sure if you're lying to me or to yourself.

Then again, if you still pay to play wow in its current state, I really shouldn't take your current state of mind as a reliable measure for anything.

Is the game actually bad or are people just jaded?

>>376378736
good goy spotted

>>376380364
the turned it into diablo 3, and despite the contrarian belief on /v/, diablo 3 was an absolute shit game so WoW is worse than its ever been, now filled with a level of grind that requires bots if you want to accomplish anything

>>376367897
artifacts finally killed WoW for me. so fucking retarded and as a warrior you'll never get that good feel again of getting a new weapon in a raid that is a huge upgrade and looks new and sick. i'm never going back after this. also removing tons of skills and making my hunter trapless in pvp, fuck blizzard

>>376380364
Go play, and see for yourself.

I don't tend to eat shit from developers who make artificial garbage for you to keep collecting forever, and then after a while take it all away and create a more powerful type of garbage for you to grind all over again, because fuck you. That's not engaging gameplay, it's entertainment for idiots.

>>376380364
Made me and about 15 out of 20 guildmates of mine quit in Legion, after we were a tightly knit group of raiders having fun raiding together for 6-7 years.
Not a big sample size, but as far as I'm concerned it's really fucking bad.

There's endless AP grind. Legendary and warforged RNG. But worst of all, they completely destroyed classes since MoP with the 2 ability prunings.
Even ignoring all the shitty grind and RNG I was simply not having fun with my class anymore in raids. They are just boring and oversimplified to play.

>>376380354
The raids are just as good as they've ever been, so I don't even know what you mean about the "current state".

You're probably one of those guys who thought it was fun to grind potions all day since they were insanely expensive or grind resistance gear for a month for a single boss. That is way worse than AP or any grind in the current game.

Whats funny is that ffxiv is literally WoW with chocobos but everyone sucks it's dick on /v/ and shits all over WoW. Really makes you think.

>>376380564
>They are just boring and oversimplified to play.

If they're so easy then let's see your 99 percentile mythic ranks then, bud.

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>>376367897

>mfw retards think Wrath was casual
>when Cata, MoP, WoD, and Legion are INFINITELY more casual than Wrath

It just shows you that most WoWfags are just Catababy retards who know fuck all about the game's history.

>>376380364
I mean I wouldn't recommend it to anyone that hasn't played before, it is no where near newbie friendly.

>>376380652
FFXIV has a lot more and better casual content. Minigames and new mechanics are released mid-expansion.
It's a lot better game to play casually.

It's shit for raiding, though. You get only a handful of bosses every 6 months.

>>376380652
because /v/ is weeb central

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>>376380729
>these things being casual means that thing can't be casual
Does your ass get jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth?

>>376380715
I had several top100 and even a few top10 parses for my class/spec on World of Logs in Cata and MoP.
Classes were far more complex and fun back then.

>>376380537
Diablo 3 was better. At least the whole game was designed with that sort of grind in mind, There is nothing fun about world quests and Maw of Souls after 2 weeks tops.

>>376380652
Because XIV is superior in almost every way.

>>376380616
>The raids are just as good as they've ever been

>4 modes
>loot is still the only incentive
>still forced to grind throughout all modes
>people demand 100 item levels above the content
>skill is irrelevant
>item levels play the game for you
>good
>weekly lockout for loot
>you actually need item levels to grind item levels. lol

Yeah, I pass.

>>376380652
ffxiv is shit but the chocobos are really cute

>>376380729
it's not possible to be more casual than wrath

>>376380537
>>376380903
Diablo 3 is actually fun if you play a week every season reset.
It starts getting really repetitive after a week, though. It should be played in short bursts with big breaks in between.

Which is the reason why the infinite grind model won't work in WoW. For MMORPGs, you don't want to quit for 6 months after a week or grinding.
Grinding in WoW only worked when they gave you a week or two worth of grinding with every big content patch, that was manageable.

>>376380652
Except ffxiv is much prettier and wow looks old and ugly as shit. Oh, and wow is run by hacks and destroyed everything about the game post WoD.

>>376380989
>4 modes
With only 2 that matter
>loot is still the only incentive
Except for mounts, but loot/mounts was alwas the only incentive
>still forced to grind throughout all modes
Only heroic since mythic isn't open on the first week
>people demand 100 item levels above the content
Then make your own group and invite people with shit gear. It won't be hard to find them if that's what you want.
>skill is irrelevant
This is completely wrong. Just look at DPS logs.
>item levels play the game for you
Not even close, there are a lot of items that are better than higher ilvl items, and if you look at logs you see plenty of shitters with high ilvl doing terrible damage
>good
I don't know what you mean by this
>weekly lockout for loot
It's always been weekly lockout, and that's not even true. Mythic+ dungeons don't have locks.
>you actually need item levels to grind item levels.
Explain? You can equip whatever ilvl you want no matter what you're currently wearing.

>>376380989
>skill is irrelevant
>item levels play the game for you

Gear after a certain point is irrelevant in mythic nighthold. I'm with you, Legion is awful but you clearly don't know shit about raiding. This place is one of the most retarded, unfun and overtuned raids ever released in WoW on mythic.

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>>376380729
>WoD or Legion
>More casual than any other expac in the game

WoD literally only had mythic raiding to do, if you weren't a mythic raider you should have unsubbed as there was literally no content for you, Legion also has an insane grind, on top of RNG on top of RNG for gear with some of the hardest bosses released for the game (although EN was an undertuned joke.)

>>376380768
>>376380987
>>376381236
Great job proving my point. During the development of FFXIV Yoshida literally said that his goal was to copy WoW because its a formula that works. The only thing keeping the game afloat is the fact that it's a final fantasy game and weebs are loyal to the franchise.

>>376381502
The only thing keeping it afloat are devs who aren't complete fucking retards.

>>376381502
Post a link to that quote.

He made a WoW that people actually wanted to play. It gets constant updates that arent stupid and they dont ruin the game because they think they know best despite not being the ones to actually make the game since the ones who did are long gone.

FFXIV is beating WoW for a reason, either get on board or stay stuck in 2006.

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>>376381380
>tfw there will never be a raid that's as overtuned and as fun as M BRF again

Why was he so perfect

>>376381502
>copying WoW
lol, he may have said that but to play the game tells a different story, if anything XIV copies every major MMO that had any impact and steals mechanics from them.

the WoW part was just making sure what he put together was appealing enough to keep people long term, the majority of XIV STILL takes more cues from FFXI and guild wars than WoW

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>>376368938
I have 3k hours in Guild Wars, over a year of /played in WoW, about 1.5k hours in Ragnarok Online and I'm pushing 100 days /playedtime in FFXIV.

And you know what? You're right. These games are office life simulators. You work a "job," you interact with your "coworkers," and you "work together" for a common goal.
But if you have your life together aside from that, I don't see the problem. It can be a decent way to meet people, so long as you don't treat the games as glorified single player RPGs like so many people do.

I love this genre. I've played it since I was a teenager and I'm pushing 30. I will be sad to see it die, because it is currently on the way out like RTSes were a decade ago.

>>376381236
ffxiv looks like shit unless you downsample the fuck out of it because of the software fxaa

>>376381502
>>376381704
On the last Q&A the lead guys- Baldy Mcgoo or whatever his name was owned up and actually admitted that some of the mistakes were a failure on his part as the director of the expansion and that there were some calls he flat out made wrong. You don't often hear devs apologize, so the man has my respect

>>376381842
Compared to WoW? FFXIV looks a million times better.

>>376379368
>oh yeah everyone plays on private servers that are pre renewal
This is WoW's future. Retail will still exist, but it will continue to bleed subs until it has only a small community left. Everyone else still interested in the game will play on Vanilla/TBC/Wrath private servers.

Blizzard tried to prevent this by suing Nostalrius, but now we have Elysium. And if Elysium went down, something else would take its place and so on.

>>376381923
it looks alright in places with simple geometry like a city, as long as you don't move the camera everything in your bullshot won't tear, and outdoor areas always like awful

like i said you can downsample from 2160p and it's okay but seriously the engine is not good

>>376381704
http://jpgames.de/2012/08/gamescom-2012-our-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/

>Yoshida: One of the reasons why Final Fantasy XI was so successful was that the whole development team went and played Everquest and they thought “Okay, we want to do exactly what they did with Final Fantasy XI!” You know there were times where you couldn’t contact any of them because of how much they played *laughs*, but because they did that they had a direction. One of the problems with Final Fantasy XIV was that there wasn’t that direction, they didn’t know what the standard was and they never played World of Warcraft, they didn’t know enough and because they didn’t know enough they couldn’t build something up to the standards of current MMOs. Plus when they started creating Final Fantasy XI there was Final Fantasy X that strongly influenced them.
>With Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn we don’t want to create many new things, we first want to start of getting this global standard and then adding that Final Fantasy feel. We want to get the crystal tower in and the gold soucer to get that epic Final Fantasy feeling.


Literally said that he wants to make WoW but with chocobos.

reminder if you complain about AP you literally just dot play the game

My alt warlock is at 45 without doing even a weekly mythic+ and you won't need 52+ until Tomb

When did /v/ become so casual ?

>>376382467
grats you've really mastered making AK work orders on the mobile app unlike us casuals

>>376381379
>only 2 (out of 4 raid modes) that matter
Because you said so?

>loot/mounts was alwas the only incentive
So you have to grind item levels to get item levels, right? That sounds compelling.

>Only [forced to grind] heroic since mythic isn't open on the first week
Can you really join heroic groups without item levels?

>make your own group and invite people with shit gear. It won't be hard to find them if that's what you want.
Is that supposed to be a good thing about the current state of the game? Good to know. It helps me to keep a healthy distance from this garbage game.

>This [skill is irrelevant] is completely wrong. Just look at DPS logs.
Your items determine how much damage you do. What the fuck are you trying to imply with this bullshit "look at logs"? Without item levels you can't do damage, it's that simple.

>there are a lot of items that are better than higher ilvl items
Yet, the only thing anyone cares about are item levels, since it's the first and ONLY thing anyone ever asks.
>if you look at logs you see plenty of shitters with high ilvl doing terrible damage
Is every auto-shot hunter proof that item levels don't matter? Fuck off.

>Mythic+ dungeons don't have locks
What is that supposed to mean? Mythic raids are still the only way to get item levels. Just because you can grind something, for a ridiculously low chance your loot will proc a higher item level, it doesn't mean mythic dungeons are any more consistent than they are a huge waste of time.

>You can equip whatever ilvl you want no matter what you're currently wearing.
You need item levels to get more item levels. That's just retarded.

You pretty much confirmed every single one of the points to why this game is absolutely shit.

>>376376115
There's a D&D and LOTRO, the former has been butchered to eternity but the latter is a pretty good vanilla WoW server.

The problem with both is that they tried to beat WoW and failed. Nobody wants to try anything new since Warcraft ate the genre and shit out diamonds, once.

>>376382467
>Taking the complaints seriously

The people who complain about WoW on /v/ are largely vanilla fags who haven't played the game in a decade and just parrot complaints they've heard from other people

>>376382467
Some of us started playing other games when WoW was getting worse and worse and we value our time more. Anything is better than wasting even an hour on one of the worst designed grind systems in years.

>>376382413
>With Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn we don’t want to create many new things

Yoshi-P is truly the greatest video game innovator of our time. There is no denying that FFXIV is a masterpiece.

>>376377656
This. Grind higher numbers to grind higher numbers. At least vanilla was actually social where you could have an adventure in the world.

>>376381380
>you clearly don't know shit about raiding.
I know just enough to keep myself at safe distance from it, and from the game entirely since we're at it.

I hope you do realize you're just making the game look even worse when you keep confirming how trash it actually is.

>>376382590
You keep talking about mythic raids but then go back to bitching about groups not inviting you based on item level

Plenty of mythic guilds would take somebody parsing orange for their item level, you're just some trash can player who can't get a pug to carry you and can't perform well enough with your current gear to get a trial

>>376382413
>One of the problems with Final Fantasy XIV was that there wasn’t that direction, they didn’t know what the standard was and they never played World of Warcraft, they didn’t know enough and because they didn’t know enough they couldn’t build something up to the standards of current MMOs.

nigger how fucking dumb are you it literally says right there no one on the team played WoW. They didnt know the standard of MMO's and the blamed that on the failure of 1.0.

>>376370637
it's the social feedback yes. And you're downplaying all the insidious ways they feed the addiction cycle with little rewards hung out in front of you. They've hired psychologists to keep players on the hedonic treadmill.

I was bored completely in 2 or 3 weeks (did the heroic first raid), but by then I had this itch to keep subbed just so I wouldn't miss out on good world quest rewards or that special chest that you get for completing hard dungeons.

>>376382787
I talk about the game as a whole. I couldn't care less if you raid mythic, lfr, flex, normal, heroic, mythic+, or whatever the fuck.

The game is shit in any form.

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>>376382590
>Your items determine how much damage you do. What the fuck are you trying to imply with this bullshit "look at logs"? Without item levels you can't do damage, it's that simple.
>Yet, the only thing anyone cares about are item levels, since it's the first and ONLY thing anyone ever asks.

holy kek what a retard

>>376382413
Good lord that is pathetic.

>Just follow what the superior white man does

>>376382885
>talking about a game with parts you don't understand because you're too shit to get into good groups

Really makes one think

>>376376115
Magic the Gathering has a very interesting world.

Too bad those fags will never make an MMO - and even if they did, it would likely suck ass

>>376382885
If you don't like the game then stop playing. If you don't play the game then why are you bitching at people that do?

>>376382902
Can you do damage without item levels now? That's new.

I'm pretty sure you can join any group if you're 10 item levels below of what they are asking, right? Since it doesn't make any difference and stuff.

What a fucking retard you are.

>>376383038
Yea I link them my Cutting Edge and tell them I'll shit on at least half the players in there

It not hard

>>376383017
>good groups
>groups only ask for item levels

It does, indeed, make you think.

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>That guy who thinks raiding is a second job.
>That guy who thinks ever guild leader is a nazi
>That guy who doesn't understand why applications are a thing
>That guy who stays dead silent on team speak at all times.
>That guy who blames item level req for his inability to find a guild

>>376383021
>If you don't play the game then why are you bitching at people that do?
You're fucking morons, that's why.

>>376383129
t. Normal mode pug hero

>>376383186
You do realize how bad that makes YOU look, right?

You're not special just because you're being carried, kid.

>>376383020
It's dead the same way Might & Magic is. They had fairly interesting world, and abandoned it in the name of making new market-research_approved hystorical cliche planes every 6 months. With this one there isn't really any hope, they are too far gone.

>>376383129
>implying groups that disband at H Spellblade are good

At least try to be realistic and say they ask for AotC. And actual mythic groups couldn't give a fuck what your item level is since it's a joke to raise it as long as they know you perform well

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>>376383119
I bet you'd put your aotc in your resume, if you could, right?

>>376383138
And we have one in this thread! I thought they only existed on oficial forums.

>>376383290
You live in a bubble. I really hope you realize that and I really hope you're just pretending to be a drone right now.

>>376383183
Welp you've proven you're superior in every way to me by wasting your time talking to people below you about something you don't even like. Good job.

>>376367897
It's really not that bad. Points into the paragon trait aren't really that significant past the first, so as long as you're researching AK you won't really fall behind by too much without grinding.

>>376383537
Stay mad, and killing dragons.

Don't forget to pay for your subscription, btw.

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>>376367897
They were thinking that despite sub numbers so low they no longer report on them that they run a game that still makes quite a sum of money from a subscription fee.
Because they do.

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>>376367897
>We fucking suck and Activiz won't give us resources
>Skinner box, sucker the NEET shitlords into chasing the carrot forever

>Now announce record "Playtime" for all remaining 5 of our hopelessly addicted players

>>376383617
>I can't get into groups, because they demand gear. What a stupid game. Takes no skill. You all stupid for playing it.

Kill yourself retard, or find an mmo when you can get into groups in your loincloth because of you mad skillz.

>>376383826
Thanks for proving the point of how shit this game really is, once again.

Pretty sure you feel justified for that money you take from your mom to pay for probably one of the worst mmorpgs out there.

>>376383818
WoD:
>there is no carrot
Legion:
>you can't ever get the carrot

Are they retarded?

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>>376367897
Pre-Legion:
>waaaah there's no way to progress your character outside of raids

Post-Legion:
>waaaah you have to do things outside of raids to progress your character

Fucking pick one.

>>376383926
(you)

>>376384187
Because there is no such thing as a middle ground and we have to choose between no content and painful repetitive endless grind.

>>376384187
>if you want to progress your character you have to grind millions of AP, as well as doing raids

>>376367897
It's almost as though MMO's have always been boring pieces of shit.

>>376370637
It's become one of those games I play on the side. I can always come back to it and know what the fuck I'm doing and what I'm in for.

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>Play WoW
>Blizzard introduces absurd amounts of RNG and grinding
>Quit WoW and go play a game where the Grinding is actually enjoyable

>>376384357
>If you want to progress your character you have to play the game

What activities in WoW don't give AP at this point?
RPing in Goldshire?

The biggest complaint up to this point was that there wasn't any reason to log in between raids.
With AP and M+, problem solved.

If you guys think the current AP grind is even close to the old pre-wrath grinds you haven't been paying attention.

>>376367897
its called creating content with the least amount of effort possible.

>>376367897
>Complaining about AP
>Not complaining about Legendaries/Forged loot
How to spot someone who does not play WOW which is a good idea since they fucked 7.2

>>376383729
Is this picture saying that Cheddar Jalapeno is bad by representing Cata? Because I love Cheddar Jalapeno. Cheddar Jalapeno doesn't deserve this.

>>376367897
>Diablo team worked on Legion

theres your answer

>>376373504
reddit com/r/wow/comments/68z24h/redesigning_classes_brainstorm/

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>>376367897

I stopped playing this shit after Nightmare came out. The idea behind Legion was pretty cool and I loved leveling and all that but it got fucking old fast. They literally repeated the same mistakes they did in WoD. The world quests were good at the very beginning but soon turned into a massive fucking chore which was hardly rewarding. Not to mention the retarded AP grind. I have to say, Blizzard succeeded in killing what little interest I still had in the game after WoD.

I'm actually pretty curious to know what their sub numbers are at the moment. They can't be very good. Almost everyone on my B.net friends list is either offline or playing Overmeme'd & Goystone.

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>>376384713
>the old grind was also bad so there's absolutely no reason for you to complain about the bad grind that's currently in the game.

This is what legion drones actually believe.

>>376385214
Doing almost any activity in current content rewards you with AP. Just because mythic raidurrs spend 16 hours a day running mythic pluses and bitching about it doesn't mean that's what every single person on WoW is doing.

>>376385641
But there's nothing else to do.

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>>376385641
>Doing almost any activity in current content rewards you with AP
Why is this shit in the game then?

>>376385893
So you have to do those same activities every day. And since you can only do them once a day, it keeps you subbed for longer

>>376385990
Paying for longer, is what you meant to say. Right?

Artificial, arbitrary garbage designed to keep you paying for the game, and retards actually defend this model.

Blizzard fans are mentally ill.

>>376386090
Obviously I meant paying for longer. That's what a fucking subscription is

>>376386090
I am not defending that model, I'm just saying you don't have to grind all day for AP.

>>376386162
Don't forget they count chinks with 30 minutes of game time in their account since 2009 as "active subscriptions", still.

Subscriptions is a very loose term to blizzard when they are talking about wow.

>>376386219

I don't have to play the game at all :^)

>>376386298
>>376386298
I'm pretty sure what you just said is racist in some degree.

>>376386298
True enough haha

Wow pretty much ruined all videogames, not just mmos.

>>376385186
I feel for this guy. Leading raids is hell.

It's like if you organized a pick up game with a few guys after work, but as soon as you started playing two of them sat down in the middle of the court and began jamming twigs in each other's urethras.

Reasonably frustrated, you walk up to these strange human beings and say something like "excuse me, what the fuck are you doing? If you wanted to jerk each other off, you shouldn't have said you wanted to play, and you should just go home now because you're ruining the game for everybody else. This is very inconsiderate and inappropriate."

But, in this bizzaro world that is WoW, YOU'RE the asshole for telling people to stop acting like drooling retards.

>>376367897
I personally don't mind it, mostly because I got fucked hard in WoD. I don't know if you all remember, but ilevel/dps was watched more hawkishly than other expacs for some reason (I've been playing since vanilla).

>Game is shit so friends don't buy it.
>No guild
>Go to raid as pug
>The shit I need doesn't drop, so my Ilevel doesn't go up, and my DPS output plateaus.
>If I don't get the drop I need, no one will invite me to the next difficulty tier because I can't pull the numbers.
>Wait one week for reset.
>Go do raid.
>My shit doesn't drop.
>I am cucked from doing higher end content for another week over basically one or two items.
>Feel stagnation set in, my ability to do higher content is locked behind luck.
>They announce no flying
>Unsub and say FUUUUUCK it.

At least with the AP grind in Legion, it allows me to make progress on my character every day, even if I don't get the loot drops I need that week, and I'm able to stay competitive. Ilevel still matters to people, but it never feels like you are super behind anymore unless you're lazy about doing your AP grind.

So I guess that's what I like about it. Effort and hard work will at least get you "somewhere" even though being lucky is still good.

In WoD, you either got lucky with loot or you were fucked for raiding.

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Are you fucking dumbasses even doing your Artifact Research? It increases the value you get from AP items dramatically.

>>376386792
I'm not.

I don't play games that try to fuck me for my money.

>>376386895
So no modern games then. That explains why you're here.

>>376386957
Why the fuck would I play video games? What kind of loser does that past the age of 16?

>>376386792
>Nearly everyone even playing the game casually has every trait worth getting
>Remaining 5-6 traits for every class is dogshit passives
>People on /v/ still complaining that you need to grind AP
Every time, its not like there isnt tons of low hanging fruit to point out this expansion. Yet retards always out themselves

>>376378560
They have to be synched up so that every player is seeing the same thing. This is also one of the reasons why MMO combat is always so static.

>>376387314
If it's not worth getting, why are they in the game?

>>376386792
>Are you fucking dumbasses even doing your Artificial Time Gating?

Fixed that for you

>>376387605
You are going to get the 4th point in those traits because what the fuck else are you going to spend your AP on.

>>376374974
download Altoholic and log into every character at least once
then you can open the addon and it will show you the total playtime on your whole account

>>376369369
You aren't forming intimate, meaningful connections with your guildmates. They're more like colleagues than friends. It's completely superficial and you're only grouped together to defeat bosses, not get to know each other irl. People play MMOs to escape real life, not embrace it.

>>376374962
I want it to die because I know people who are severely depressed and are using it as a crutch to get through their daily life and run away from their problems. I genuinely feel bad for them and want them to get better, but they'll never do it so long as they can just log in and grind dungeons/raids. The game feeds into addictive/depressed personalities more than it ever has (save for vanilla PvP, but at least that wasn't the whole fucking game).

>>376385990
You can do 90% of the AP-generating activities any amount of times.
There are very very few "dailies" in the game.

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>>376388201
I know this story all to well. Was very much like that. But now the game is too far gone. To the point where buying a month of game time and logging on is it's own punishment. You're just wasting money on nothing to do. I sank into private servers for a while to get the nostalgic feel back. But not one server was ever really stable or reliable. I still get the itch from time to time. But lately, I've just expanded my library options and branched off playing other games to fill the void wow used to give me.

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>>376377220
That's it? This is looking as linear as the first set of traits.

>>376380752
What? Yes it is, it holds your hand constantly. You mean to say it's not casual friendly, i.e. for those who don't have much time to invest in it.

>>376377997
what people are not telling you is that there's research that increases the amount of artifact power you get. to be more specific, each point in that (called artifact knowledge) increases your yield by 25% compared to the last level (so it's an exponential function, 1.25^x).

the artifact amount required though scaled up by like 26-30% or something, such that it slowly gets slower and slower the higher up in level you get. but it's bearable. if you've been doing it since the start, you now get about a point in the artifact tree every week if you do nothing except 1 or 2 farm raids, the weekly mythic+ run for the chest, and some order hall missions (the facebook quest thing). if you do more than that, you get a lot more points.

>>376381380
It's not overtuned, it's just tuned for those who endlessly grind AP for min/maxing. Anyone who doesn't play the game like a second full time job is fucked.

>>376389165
That's not true either, look at the top guilds. People claimed you needed 54 traits to even start mythic Nighthold. Players still struggle after numerous nerfs and new traits, the first one being stronger than all of the old ones combined.

>>376385186
Their latest fiscal quarter report said their sub numbers were "about the same" as WoD's were by this time in its life cycle. That's probably somewhere between 4-7 million subscribers still.

>>376389367
>>376389165
Nighthold after the first 3 bosses was tuned for 54 traits according to Blizzard, and it was tuned for a full raid group of players in ilvl 900-905 gear. And that's fucking retarded, because it only drops ilvl 905 gear, the only way to have enough gear to do it was to either get carried through Mythic, or to farm for titanforge drops.

I quit after 7/10 mythic, shit was fucking retarded. When Nighthold launched I was ilvl 898, when my guild was 7/10 I was ilvl 903. We were DEing half the loot from our prog kills. Glad I got out.

>>376389547
The issue isnt gear for anything but Krosus.

The issue is the raid is really fucking hard and a single fuckup from one person is a wipe.

>>376389547
>full raid group of players in ilvl 900-905 gear. And that's fucking retarded, because it only drops ilvl 905 gear
What the fuck, that's retarded.

>>376389547
I happen to have just reached 7/10. I have normal level trinkets and heroic rings at 908, but nothing from Star Augur. Artifacts and legendaries bring you much higher.

>>376367897
Well the thing is that AP doesn't matter THAT much once you unlock all the elite skills.

I left for a couple of months and when I came back I didn't feel any less powerful than anyone else. At least not substantially.

Didn't people spend the last several expansions complaining that WoW was too casual? Now people are complaining that WoW is too hard.

What the fuck?

>>376390003
It's not hard, it's just overly punishing for those who don't commit half of their lives to it.

>>376389083
Not casual friendly, and the leveling experience is generally shit and turns people away.

>>376390003
Being required to farm the same easy dungeons over and over and over and over isn't hard, it's time consuming and tedious. Plus Legendary RNG put huge amounts of players off early because having 20%+ of your ability to compete tied up in an RNG drop that you have zero ability to influence was fucking retarded.

Blizzard shouldn't have removed 10 man raiding as a viable option. This was by far the most popular way to raid, and they destroyed to give 0.1% of the player base a super tightly tuned mythic difficulty. 20 man raids are just too big for an endlessly dwindling player base.

>>376367897
There is no way they are going to take away the artifacts without having to make their abilities all base line

>>376390034
Not him but that sounds like Vanilla to me.

Isn't that what you guys wanted?

>>376390061
It's super casual friendly though. There's content if you only have a few minutes to play and has retard difficulty to see all of the endgame.

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>It takes 1million + mythic + 10's to get to max Artifact Level at level 50 AK
Honestly, as someone who raided mythic EN this shit made me uninstall and if you're still playing this game your a complete and utter fucking retard

>>376382842
>>376382973
It's for this same reason that we'll never get DQX, which is the real sequel to FFXI, made by the same development team.

They honestly and truly believe that westerners do not like the type of game DQX is. ARR was made as Japanese WoW because they thought that style of game was what westerners wanted.

And it was a success, so were they really wrong?

>>376390756
I mean I'm just speaking from my own experience, everyone I knew that was fairly new quit within the first month and didn't even make max level.

>>376390264
It's not even just that. I think instanced raids are an outdated form of content. People just aren't interested in bleeding edge content in this form anymore, people want open world shit with many other people.

GW2 had the right idea, but it pulled it off in the most retarded and half-assed way possible.
Look at how popular open world survival games are right now, like Playerunknown's Battlegrounds. This is the "MMO" experience people want.

>>376391093
That doesn't support it not being casual friendly at all, though. A shit game is a shit game, but you can't say Blizzard doesn't try to cater to everyone.

>>376390941
>And it was a success, so were they really wrong?
Barely. ARR still gets roughly equal player numbers to the Runescape 2007 servers, and the Runescape 2007 servers launched with a development team of 3 people, no dev tools, no budget, no artist, no Engine support and no Q&A support, everything added to the game for the first 6 months of its existence was literally a game hack created by the single code monkey who worked on it.

ARR cost easily ten times as much from a much larger development team for no better results.

>quit at the end of TBC
>kek at all the blizzdrones "T-THIS EXPANSION WILL BE THE ONE, IT'LL FIX WOW"
>kek even harder as it inevitably fails

A bigger dev team, but less content? how the fuck does that even work?

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>nothing that drop from Nighthold will be an upgrade for me unless it's Titanforge or something
>can't get gear from dungeons either because everyone sucks at the modifiers and they deplete the stone
>AP is the only progress I can make in the game anymore and I absolutely hate it

Ok I just hit 108 but im really wondering.. do you have to max it out? I mean you can still raid without it being maxed right?

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>>376390835
>>It takes 1million + mythic + 10's
I hope you're not trying to say it'll be hard to reach the last trait, because at 43 AK it would be easier to earn that 4 billion than for me to earn my next trait currently. 50 AK is overkill with how much artifact power they throw at you.

>>376377672
the reason people require high ilvls is because everyones in bag ilvl (the one that shows up when you apply to a group) is massively inflated.
1. legendaries. full 880 gear with two 940 legos will put you at 890.
2. artifact weapons. for some reason, you artifacts ilvl is NOT the average of your 3 relics. I have three 880-890 relics and my weapons ilvl is 911.
3. random titanforging. you could have half 860 gear and half 920 gear and end up being 890. youd still want to run normal or whatever to get upgrades for the half of your gear that didnt titanforge
4. worthless titanforging. got a piece of shit ring with your worst stats but titanforged to 920, kept it in my bags because itll boost the ilvl that shows up when i apply to groups
5. low ilvl trinkets/tier that are best in slot. ive got a lfr draught of souls and convergence of fates. they are better than mythic raid trinkets. its fucking stupid, but im still running normal to get upgrades of those two trinkets even though my ilvl is 902

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>>376391707
Despite what you may hear, no one on /v/ is part of the race for world first. Of course you don't need to and people will even take you in without legendaries.

>>376391748
are you retarded? try reading the rest of his post instead of stopping in the middle

I think I might be the only person here who doesn't have a problem with artifact weapons, though that may be because I am a ret paladin and like all ret paladins, I get a massive throbbing erection when someone even mentions the word Ashbringer.

I don't like the AP grind, but I do like the traits that every Artifact has.

>>376391707
no. Not even the top raiding guild max shit out. People just love to complain about min maxing when it doesn't even matter if they min max because they aren't in the .1% of guilds that raid competitively.

>>376391910
That's not fucking English. I'm trying to make sense of it.

>>376391902
>only world first raiders care about it
Please go app to any of the 3 raiding guilds on an given server and see how that plays.

>>376391973
it takes over 1 million mythic+ runs to get the max artifact level at the max artifact knowledge
i dont know what the fuck is confusing you

>>376392051
Right, so your advice to all new players is to apply to the top guilds instead of trying to make friends with like-minded individuals.

>>376392083
Did you not read my post? I addressed that. The grind is made exponentially easier every AK level. If it stopped at 43 it would still be faster, so that's a clear lie.

>>376392205
>AT
>THE
>MAX
>ARTIFACT
>KNOWLEDGE

>>376392373
It won't take a million dungeons.

>>376392451
youre probably thinking of getting 1 point in the concordance of the legionfall trait. that math is for getting all 50 points in it. blizz even said they dont intend for anyone to max out their artifact this time around

>>376392647
No, I'm thinking of 50/50 as seen here. >>376377220. They said that to discourage people from grinding, and they're 100% right. It's much less of an issue than for 7.1.

>>376392647
max ak gives 55.2 million percent increase
mythic+10 gives 1200 ap baseline.

1 mythic+10 will give you 664 million ap. The max amount of AP you need for everything is 194 billion.

1 million mythic+10s would give you 664 quadrillion ap.

you're a fucking retard

>>376380652

A handful of bosses every 6 months? KEK.

Alexander bosses come out along with Primal bosses and 24 man content all at a steady pace.

Please explain the 14 month content draught Warcraft had in its previous expansions.

FFXIV is as casual as WoW. At least though it delivers steady content and dynamic looking bosses and mechanics. I mean both games have certain flaws but WoW is getting way too much in the grind. FFXIV started realizing this with the Anima weapon line that they've fucked up so everything will be re done in Stormblood.

>>376385063

>>376393013
youre using wowheads live calculator, arent you? it breaks at some point and doesnt increase the amount of power to level up. the ptr calculator has the correct values. you need 200 quadrillion for the last point

>>376381502
It's a formula that has worked for every MMO. No one wants to play outdated EQ shit.

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>>376393013
>The max amount of AP you need for everything is 194 billion.

You're missing some zeroes there.

>>376367897

Pretty sure the grinding of AP along with timegates are the same tactic they use for raids. Block you from progressing too fast so you pay for another month of WoW.

>Each concordance trait adds less than .1% damage
Why are people bitching about this now?

>>376381826
I noticed guild wars more than anything.

>>376393554
because people bitch about the things that are the least important instead of thinigs actually worth bitching about like a 3 month timegate

Money https://youtu.be/f_2XRZTuf0Y

>>376391507
>le "i played this game in 2007 but i will still pop in every thread to call you cucks" post

>Playing WoW in 2017

Have some self respect lmao

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>>376396663

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>>376396710
>s-stop saying w-wow is dead!!!

>>376377220
And just asking how much artifact power you can gain with one day or one week of "normal" playing?

>>376368376
679 million for second point of last trait

I honestly think with Pandaria Blizzard reached the point where the only people left playing were the ones who were truly pathetic and would never quit anyway (along with a couple million chinese farmers ofc). So they've pretty much stopped trying since then.

>>376397181
This. The only people who still play are beta cucks who love it when daddy blizzard shits on them

>>376387605
Because they simulate vanilla experience

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>raids are actually pretty good now
>cant find a good guild to raid with

>>376397328
>Raids finally get good
>pug retards get even more stupid
I hate everything

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>>376396868
there is no average amount of artifact power you're earning weekly because you're going to be gaining multiple artifact knowledge levels per week.

The moment you hit level 110 you can get to ak 26 within an hour now so every ap item you find gives you 200k-700k and every 3 days you get another level after that.

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>tfw official wow off topic forums back in 2007 were 4chan lite and introduced me to this place
>now the community is a sterile turd

>>376396848

>w-w-wow is dead, i've said this everyday for the last 9 years, someday I will be right!

>>376397559
Dumb frogposter

>>376397565
AHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

>>376397617
Funny how nost/elys cucks all got very quiet lately, must be the realisation that vanilla actually is fucking boring+admins are russian goldselling hackers who sells your account info

>>376397565
Pretty funny how antiblizz shills probably spent more time shitposting on /v/ how big daddy blizz hurt their feefee's than I got /played in WoW

should i resub if i just do random bgs/world pvp?
how is subtlety burst ?

>>376368938
Speak for yourself faggot, I play in small bursts to experience a story while leveling my character for sometimes interesting lore and amusing dialogue.
On level capped characters I play a few battlegrounds or arenas for the satisfaction of testing my abilities against a human player.
Not everyone is a pve shitter like you grinding out redundant shit

>>376398207

>should i resub

no

>>376398332
yeah, thought so

>>376398207
World pvp is dead with flying unless you go in a group. I started doing battlegrounds instead and it was a lot better than it used to be.

>>376398207
nah i quit because of pvp being so bad a few months back
the templates are horribly unbalanced and make you feel like you have no control over your characters stats
also world pvp and duelling literally died in legion
really wouldnt recommend it

>>376398207
>should i resub

yes

It is clear that they had nothing to continue the game with after wotlk

They noticed all the vanilla hype and thought people just wanted to grind again without even understanding why

>>376370637
I play with real life friends on and off as a backdrop for conversations and we like to experience new storylines as we crack jokes and it usually comes down to us stomping some battlegrounds for a couple hours

what's weird to me is that people look at the next 230 million AP needed for the trait and go, "yeah i need to grind for that"
says who??? why??

this expansion has shown who the hamster retards are. you could throw a 1 billion AP trait in there and people would think you need to grind that out.

it's called a time gate. you're not intended to have the trait until time has passed, whether or not you grind 12 hours a day for AP, why are people not understanding this??????

>>376398478
After cata you mean? Panda was the biggest asspull in lore, Deathwing made sense

>>376398487
They don't want people to grind, they want it to come naturally with time. They payoff isn't as strong as before.

>>376398551
Autists need to find reasons to complain about a game they can't afford.

>>376398503
i had the same experience with all the other blizzard games too
they are really fun with friends and playing with randoms is suffering
dont really understand why but it seems to me that noone wants to have fun anymore

>>376398207
Brawls are actually a ton of fun. Random bgs were awful last week because of Children's Week.

>>376398869
really?
i didnt enjoy them at all
seemed like a buggy mess with people exploiting mechanics most of the time

>>376398723
It's all autistic nitpicking

>>376398971
What was buggy? They put a lot more thought into these brawls than the ones in other blizzard games. They're really creative for the maps they are put on.

>>376381836
Anon if youre still around, do you prefer world of Warcraft or final fantasy. I want to get into an MMO and it seems like these two are the best options besides elder scrolls online

Why the fuck did they make 7 fucking expansions for this game, all it does is leave dead content.

I played during BC and that was my big problem, everyone was doing BC content and I was stuck in Vanilla with no one to do it with and no reason to care because it was only a means of getting to Outland.

They should have just make a whole new game in the same universe.

>>376368938
>there was never a "golden age"
come meet me on a private server and say that to my face

>>376399314
If you want a good MMO play WoW and ignore all these retards complaining about optional grinding

>>376399314
Like any game it depends more on which franchise you want to play.

>>376399241
from the top of my head
>the brawl where you got shot up in the air
you sometimes didnt get shot up
sometimes you died from falling damage
also not very fun
>winter arathi brawl
fucking over all rangedps since people went in and out of seeable range randomly
>warsong with more flags
only tanks and demonhunters
buffs pointless
not fun

maybe im nitpicking too much but i really didnt enjoy them at all
maybe they were all more enjoyable as a melee like almost everything in legion

>>376367897
Filthy casual, just get your artifact knowledge, do all raids in all difficulties every week and emissary shit I am 51 weapon without any effort

>>376399476
Is wow really leaps and bounds above the others? Also how addicting would it get if I plan on just questing by myself?

>>376399487
Iv never really played the final fantasy games before but people have said the game is fun.
Do either if you know you know how the movement feels? In elder scrolls it feels like I'm gliding over everything. It feels cheap. Idk maybe I'm just retarded. I liked how in elder scrolls you can but your own house. I'd they're stuff like that in wow/ff? I like little stiff like being able to decorate my house and go fishing.

>>376399490
I never experienced bugs, but that's the wrong way to play the warsong one. This isn't rated. Anybody could pick up the flag and demon hunters aren't the most mobile. You just wanted to run as many flags as possible. The items they put it were almost too strong. The chain had a range of 60 yards.

>>376399765
As you go through the lower level questing zones they are each their own storyline that comes to an ending (usually pretty satisfying) If you take the time to read whats going on and immerse yourself questing by yourself can be fun.
Wouldnt really say the game is really that addicting unless you have extremely terrible self control. Im pretty sure that WoW being super addictive is just a old ass meme

>>376400143
Oh that sounds fun. I might sub to Wow then. I figured I'll be questing by myself since I don't really have any friends. I'm glad the stories are interesting. Thanks for the info

I need a good MMO to play with a somewhat interesting early game.
pls give me recommendations

>>376400757
Lots of players (still most populated MMO?) you'll run into others questing and sometimes you might need to group to take down some of the harder bosses or for world pvp if you choose to play on a pvp server

>>376401158
Define interesting. Mechanics? Story? Visuals?

>>376401328
Mostly mechanics wise
A better word would probably be "challenging"
That's the main problem I have with modern MMOs, they just tend to hold your hand for the first 100 or so hours which makes it incredibly tedious to play

>>376401414
Probably one of those korean mmos, I tried blade and soul and It held my hand for like 5 minutes and then I had no fucking clue what was happening. Maybe it wasn't blade and soul but those asian ones are a lot less forgiving than the western ones

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>>376401628
Alright, going to try and jump into black desert then and take some of my friends with me

>>376401702
Its got pretty crazy in depth crafting stuff, I played with my brother once and we literally went fishing for an hour so we could make some shekels to continue our adventure.
Also you can make some wacky ass looking characters or your dream waifu

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>>376367897
>What the fuck was ActiBlizzard thinking with the endless Artifact Power grinding?

An artificial way of prolonging the grind/content. Just like all the bullshit timegating

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Why don't they just move Kaplan back to WoW. He understood what made a good MMO.

No coincidence that as soon as he left WoW as lead (he moved on shortly after release of Ulduar) it went to total shit

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>>376399476
>optional grinding