>/v/ tells me Pillars of Eternity is bad >Play it >It's

>>376222181
fpbp

>>376222181
I bet you like Oblivion too faggot.

>/v/ tells me Pillars of Eternity is phenomenal
>Play it
>It's actually bad
Why are you so wrong every time?

>/v/ tells me Pillars of Eternity is alright
>Play it
>It's actually alright
Why are you so alright every time?

>>376224069

Not OP but I loved Oblivion and prefer it to Skyrim.

I mean there is a TON of contrarian edgelords on here. Admittedly a healthy amount of skepticism can be a good thing especially when it comes to spending your money. The problem is /v/ is full of people who will make actually stupid little problems into the biggest fucking deal ever and try to tell everyone based on this tiny problem they have (its only a problem so they seem cool for disliking something) that nobody should be playing a certain game. For instance I had a RL friend who was a huge /v/ermin do this kinda shit to me all the time but he praised Dark Souls. So whenever he would bring up what he didnt like about a game I would talk about that shitty aspect being in Dark Souls. This eventually lead to the realization that these people are in a fucking thought bubble. Dont be mad at them, pity them.

>>376222181
It's not a bad game, nor does it come close to the CRPGs of the golden age.

I keep meaning to go back to it and play the expansion, but every time I do, I loose interest pretty quickly.

I don't like the battle system wish it was like paused turn based like that other game with the cheese for sale man with the many cheeses

I got bored when i got into the big city. I lose interest fast when the game basically goes "talk to these 600 people and accept every quest and hope you'll find some goodies xD".
no, fuck you. i'd rather have fewer people and quests as long as you don't overwhelm me with shit all at once

>Obsidian fanboys still trying to claim that PoE and Tyranny were good

>No multi-classing
>Barbarians stack Int

these two points forever make it worthless.

>>376225212
>I mean
I mean go back to, like, reddit

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>>376222181
Games are not for fun anon

>>376225082
>/v/ is alright
>alright
>it's alright
alright

I honestly can't understand how someone can have shit enough taste to think pillars was "phenomenal"
I imagine some sort of mongoloid who goes "I love books" but is also illiterate.

>>376227147
>>It's actually alright
alright!

>>376227402
alright.

I am playing it right now. When people say the story in White march blew the main story away they weren't kidding. I didn't realize how much text dump there were when you do watcher stuff until I started WM.

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I've always said that it was a really good game and I stand by it. Best Western RPG released within the past decade, in my opinion. The expansions are great, too. Pledged for the sequel and now I'm waiting on that.

I liked it quite a bit, but it's in no way phenomenal. I'm hard pressed to think of memorable quests, the conflict in Defiance Bay having no real consequence (you can go back afterwards and nothing really changes? No interesting quests?)

There were some good companions, but the interaction was minimal at best and their quests were short and usually really anticlimactic

load times were abysmal

magic weapon system/items in general were really boring

>>376227719

This. White march is fantastic. If the rest of the game was the same quality it would be a legit contender to be king of crpg.

Which means I'm incredibly optimistic for Deadfire. I feel like obsidian finally got what makes their own stuff good and don't feel indebted to the pledgers to make another baldurs gate 1.

>>376229246

It did have consequences, but in a bad way. You get locked between the three factions once you do their second quest, the other factions will turn hostile* and you won't be able to use the merchant in their HQ which has uniques that you might want.

*For some reason the Crucible Knight did not turn hostile on me even though I had to kill one on the two quests given by the Dozens.

>>376229961
when does it get fantastic? White March 1 was okay, I liked Zahua. I'm currently at the fight with all the monks in the temple of Ondra and it's kicking my ass, still haven't been super wowed by it.

>>376230023
yeah, I was referring to the Animancy hearing that gets blown to shit and the entire city gets fucked up, then you can just return and everything's basically fine, nowhere to go from there and no further stuff with factions

>>376227147
>>376227402
>>376227456
>oblivion_conversations.webm

>>376222181
its fine if you're going in it for the story and doing your best to avoid as much combat as possible

>>376230095
>still haven't been super wowed by it
You didn't like fighting hundreds of trash mobs with annoying abilities?

>>376230319
the only enemies that have been remotely interesting were the giant construct dudes with hammers for arms

Maneha's quest was really dull, and the Temple of Ondra was a breeze to infiltrate

>>376230095

I just finished the temple. Ondra followers are very annoying. My party is Fighter(PC), Eder, Aloth, Durance, Pallegina, and GM. I use Aloth's blind spell early to decrease their accuracy and defense, and then I use GM to use paralyze/AOE stuck spell for CC. Durance keeps casting buffs and my two fighters tanking everything. I think it would have been easier if Pallegina has deprive the unworthy. 20 sec of buff suppression on the monks would have made the fights easier.

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>Get crowdsourced funding
>Make game
>Becomes hugely successful
>Makes lots of money

>Announce sequel
>Don't use money they got from the first game
>Instead leech off their fanbase of lemmings who'll lap any shit up

You people have reached a new low.

>>376230641
I don't really care desu, let the sheeple be sheeple and fund kickstarters so there'll be more content when I buy it on sale down the line

>>376230641
You don't really know how money works?

>>376226036
>wish it was like paused turn based like that other game with the cheese for sale man with the many cheeses
What did he mean by this?

>>376230641
But it's okay because it's Obsidian!

>>376225142
I, too, prefer food over shit

>>376231001
He wish it wasn't rtwp but turn based like divinity OS

>>376230641
To be fair they lost almost 35000 backers since PoE 1
I wonder how white march did salewise

>>376230095

And personally I find it fantastic because it feels like a grand adventure. You're going up the mountains with the snow and wilderness surrounding you, a remote village with a proper backstory that lets you know how much they needed help, and it's probably just me but I enjoy the fights. I am close to finishing WM2 and I feel that the pacing was much better done than the main quest. I did need to put some restrictions such as not going back to town until I complete the mission and not having unrestricted stash.

By itself WM may not look impressive, but it was just so much better than the base game. Overall, I really like PoE and am hoping they don't bite off more than they can chew with PoE 2.

Diablo is better. There will never be an ARPG dungeon crawler better than Diablo 2.

>>376231356
?

>>376231356
what the fuck

Your threadly reminder that Rymrgand is best god and you should pledge yourself to the entropic death of all things

>>376222181
You have to understand the psychology of Neo /v/. Especially the PC gaming group. Everytime a new release hits steam, they will hate on it no matter what it is. We saw this with Dark souls, with Ys, with LoH, with Bayonetta and with all the new crpgs.

>>376231169
but baldur's gate 2, the best crpg ever made, was not turn based

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>>376231356
>talks about an ARPG in a CRPG thread

so which god did you pledge to near the end? I was conflicted between Berath and Hylea, but went with Hylea because it seemed like the most optimistic and hopeful choice

>>376231615
ARPG can be CRPGs, boy.

IS THE COMBAT REASONABLY BALANCED?

>>376231615
>>376231418
>>376231413
Wrong PoE. I always get Pillars of Eternity mixed with Path of Exile. Carry on.

>>376230641
You have to make a shitload of money in order to fund a whole new project just with the profits, and most of those probably went to making the White March.

>>376230641
>>Don't use money they got from the first game
but they have used quite a lot of money from the first game. look at how much better 2 looks compared to 1. look at the character models and the effects. it's clear they have put a bit more into it on their end. and i don't mind the crowdsourcing because not only did i preorder a copy of deadfire, i also got a coupon for tyranny (which stacked with a sale discount the paradox store was having so i got it even cheaper).

>>376231701
One (1)

>>376230207

I think Defiance Bay was the biggest weakness of the game. You feel like a lawyer settling civil disputes and you have to run all around town like an errand boy. I struggle to find one quest that I like from Defiance Bay. I also feel underwhelmed that it was five interconnected sections as opposed to one large city. The environment not feeling alive has been a lingering issue, but Defiance Bay magnified that tenfold because it is supposed to be a capital.

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>>376231875
there's nothing wrong with districts. i hate bigger cities anyway because it usually means there are just more useless houses to go into to ransack, feels like a chore.

>>376230641

I know this is bait, but for those that don't know Obsidian has given more than reasonable support in post launch. Their last patch was in Nov '16, which is 20 months from release. It's not problem free, but they made so much improvement that it is reasonable to believe they needed crowdfunding again for the sequel.

>>376222181

I played it too. It was "ok" imo. The main story was pretty stupid, and mind control / memory loss as main plot points are always garbage.

I think it could have been much better with an interesting story, a better villain, and more and better encounters.

>>376232251
>mind control / memory loss
?
maybe i'm suffering some memory loss because i can't remember this happening.

>>376225142
go marathon the lotr movies for the 10th time or something

I'm starting to feel that /v/ is full of people who don't actually enjoy role playing games and its just soulsfags who want action hack and slash.

Combat in PoE is almost identical to the infinity engine games yet people talk like its some huge flaw in an otherwise good game. There is nothing wrong with the combat if you don't go in expecting button smashing or turn based jrpg system.

>party based
I hate this shit

>>376232320
I think he misunderstood what was going on but its close enough.

>>376232609
>Combat in PoE is almost identical to the infinity engine games yet people talk like its some huge flaw in an otherwise good game.

Because it is. The AI is braindead and only a few options are actually viable.

>>376222181
plot is bad and disappointing
combat is very repetitive and gets boring very soon

tips for fighting the Adra Dragon?

>>376232996
cipher with mind control, use lots of summons, i dunno that worked for me

>>376232873
>only a few options are actually viable.
what's that supposed to mean? sawyer balanced the game so much that pretty much any class is viable. honesly i hear more people complaining that the game is balanced and you can't make wholly overpowered characters, never once have i heard someone say that 'few options are actually viable' until now.

I really like Cipher, I just wish they didn't get nerfed. The higher level spells are basically just a slightly improved version of the lower ones only that it cost a lot more focus.

>>376226175
I thought Defiance Bay was the least interesting part of the game, but it still had a few good quests here and there.

>>376222181
>/v/ tells me _ is bad
wow

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>>376222181

>>376226193
PoE is really great
Tyranny is fucking trash

>>376232873

You can play any class melee or ranged, physical or magic. AI now has different behavior not just for each enemy, but their abilities also have different targeting priority. These are some things they can prioritize:
-Low endurance
-Highest DPS to the damage type they are weak against
-Low damage reduction
-Low defense
-Highest DPS in general
-Fastest attackers
-Highest single attack damage

The main complaint now is that only is speccing a tank that does no damage non viable now, the disengagement mechanic isn't punishing enough to deter enemies from switching targets, so enemies will make a beeline for the casters even if you have multiple fighters that can engage 5 enemies at once. The engagement system really needs to be looked at. Currently it's just a minor annoyance and it adds nothing to the game.

>>376226291
>Muh "Barbarians are dumb" meme
Disgusting, go read some Conan.

So is that Planescape Torment game good or is it a meme

>>376235342
It's fucking amazing. Sure the combat is a bit awkward but most CRPG's suffer from that as well.

>>376234202
I liked Tyranny. The ending is not GREAT and the game could use an expansion, but it still was 50 hours of great immersion and satisfaction.

>>376235342
yes anon every rpg veteran has been memeing you for the past 10 years

>>376222181
>fuck you /v/ how dare you force me to form my own opinion!

>>376222181
>phenomenal
Not with that combat system.
Sure, it's mostly bearable, but RTWP is horrible.

>>376234880

There is a problem though. Carnage basically makes the Barbarian class. If you don't pump int to increase AOE you are gimping yourself. Same with Rogue and their sneak attack. Without a way to weaken the enemies Rogue is worthless. A class's base ability should complement the class from beginning to end, it shouldn't be something that defines them.

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>no rogue companion
>every single dungeon is filled with traps

Other than that my biggest gripe with the game would be enemy levels, you're either steamrolling everything with minimal micro-management required or you're getting absolutely stomped by a bunch of druids that lightning storm your entire party before you get into melee range.

>>376235958

That's also something that I have grips with. I haven't tried to upsacle yet but you shouldn't have to use console to make fights more enjoyable. I hated level scaling in Oblivion but I almost wish this game has it.

>>376235740
There is no problem. You are arguing from a roleplaying perspective, where your feelings say that your class should put points in a stat with a specific name, just because all the other games do it that way.

It is allowed to try to do another system.

Is it clunky at all? I HATED planescape because of how shitty the gameplay was.

>>376236435
Why do they call it intelligence if it doesn't mean that the character gets more clever?

I'm not saying that a barbarian can't be clever, but in this game it is true that a good barbarian has to be highly intelligent. It sounds a bit absurd.

>>376225212
This

>>376236563
It's about as smooth as a top down RPG can be

>>376236595
You're still doing it. Stop.

Those stats are given arbitrary names instead of "Stats 1 though 6" so that we can remember them better.

They each enhance your character in some way. That is all. They do not in any way reflect the intelligence or anything else of your character, because they are a system built to resolve combat encounters, and nothing else.

You are literally making a problem where there isn't any.

>>376236664
Are we talking Shadowrun Dragonfall levels of smooth? That was a sort of classic style and it played really nicely.

I remember playing this game but quitting it.

Should I give it another try.

>>376236435

I am not the same anon. I don't care much about roleplay, but a Barbarian that has low int will definitely be less effective than one with high int because Carnage is what they rely on to kill anything. Going low or high int should both be viable but it isn't because of how important Carnage is.

>>376236776
Ok. My bad. I realise the game has legit balance issues, but these "muh int" fags are really annoying me. They're in every thread and they cannot, or will not, separate themselves from whatever D&D taught them in the 90s.

>>376236714
>they are a system built to resolve combat encounters, and nothing else.
Except all the dialog checks, faggot.

>>376222181

It's really good for when you want to fall asleep.

>>376225212

a lot of the people who shit the hardest on games have the most hours in those games. i see it all the time

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>>376236714
>>376236861
Not the person you're responding but it just sounds silly that a barbarian should have to invest points into INT in order to make his AoE damage scale better.

It's like having your mage dump points into STR because it makes one talent / skill of his completely broken.

>>376236563

The gameplay is fine IMO, the problem is the long load time, the system slowing to a crawl when everyone is casting spells, and the terrible pathfinding. The game can use more optimization but is playable.

>>376237015
No it fucking doesn't, because those are the rules of this game. Fuck's sake. There's no problem.

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>>376227147
alrite

I really wish I didn't hate RTwP so I could enjoy this.

I always preferred turn based, but I can't bring myself to go through RTwP gameplay the way I used to.

>>376237073
From a role playing perspective, it doesn't seem right.

>>376237073
Don't call it intelligence if it doesn't reflect intelligence. How complicated is that? Calling me a faggot wont change the fact that, if you're right, then the name is shit and extremely misleading.

In addition, this: >>376236863

>>376237284
I don't give a shit about your feelings.

I give much more of a shit where the optimal stat distribution for each class isn't set in fucking stone, looking at you D&D.

>>376231702
Of course it's balanced, it's made by Joshua "le Balance Man" Sawyer.

>>376237341
Okay nigger. What if we call it:
Stat 1
Stat 2
Stat 3
etc but have them do exactly the same? Where's the problem now, nigger?

>>376237356
In 2nd edition games it was 18 in all stats because you could.

>>376222181
What's up with the final boss? Bodied everything so far on hard but I'm getting destroyed here.

>>376237073
The reason we give certain stats certain names instead of 'stat 1, 2 ,3' etc is to help both with immersion and making the mechanics intuitive.
Disregarding that because 'who cares' is fucking stupid

>>376237446
Yes, better mash that reroll button.

Later games used point buy, which suffers badly from identical characters syndrome.

>>376237437
Now we have a shitty non intuitive interface, you waste of flesh

>>376237437
Calling them Stat 1, 2, 3 is strictly better if you're right about the meaning of these stats. Why wont you admit it, rather than throwing stupid insults?

In addition, the problem is still there, yes, because you're not right about the meaning of these stats. They're not strictly gameplay rules, they do have a roleplay meaning. See >>376236863

>>376237571
I don't give two shits about your immersion or your fucking intuitive mechanics, if it means sacrificing game design, okay?

Fucking game has dynamically updated tooltips for literally EVERYTHING, and you still can't understand that the Might stat increased spell damage? Fucking destroy yourself.

>>376237356
>not set in stone
I like that part of it too. Just saying it's odd

>>376237437
Dialogue checks.

>>376237661
Fuck your roleplay meaning. Those checks are every bit as arbitrary as the rest of the systems. There is no almighty power that has set in stone what an RPG looks like.

>>376222181
Generic story shit with terrible gameplay where helf the time you can't even move in battle.

>>376235342
It's terrible, it reads like fanfiction with all the retarded uses of * and -. The gameplay is one of the worst of ALL TIME too.

>>376237585
It doesn't, because you get benefits from stats ithger than you main stat. So you have choice between pumping you main stat to maximum or not pumping it to maximum and having more hp/ac/saves, feat prerequisites.

>>376237853
>Those checks are every bit as arbitrary as the rest of the systems
Nope, they are quite specific.

who /saved the baby/ here

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>>376237901

>>376238102
And you pump your main stat, every _single_ time.

Did you know, that spellcasters in AD&D (BG2) can cast a maximum spell level that equals their stat - 10?

So if you wanted to cast the most powerful spells, you _needed_ 19 int, there no choice.

In 3rd, there were fringe benefits to picking outside of your main stat, but they were fringe as fuck and practically never mattered in any CRPG.

tl;dr nothing of value was lost from D&D.

>>376222181
>listening to /v/irgins

>>376238225
No faggot. They're literally numbers and stats the devs pulled out of their asses.

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>>376238296

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Clearly the sensible option is to nerf Barbarian AOE into the ground so that people will never put points in intelligence.

>>376222181
I've rarely see someone on /v/ legit hating on poe.
Don't make up shit my man.

>>376238331
>So if you wanted to cast the most powerful spells, you _needed_ 19 int, there no choice.
Nope, in BG2 you need only 18 to cast 9 level spells. You can't even remember it right.
>there were fringe benefits
For a wizard difference between 10 and 14 constitution in 3rd is 50% more hp, even more that 50% if hp per level is determined by a dice roll.

>>376238331
>in D&D there's a specific stat you ought to pump every_single_time, for example intelligence for a wizard
>in PoE there's a specific stat you ought to pump every-single-time, for example intelligence for a barbarian
>exactly the same system in D&D an PoE, except that it makes sense in D&D and not in PoE
>"nothing of value was lost from D&D"

>>376238409
>I think think of any arguments and will deny everything
The post.

>>376238691
That's due to balance issues for that single barbarian ability, not any fault of the stats themselves.

You can actually make a melee damage focused Might barbarian if you so chose, but I suppose it is suboptimal.

D&D is dramatically different in that your class simply does not function if you do not pick the EXACT stat that's even in the fucking book as your primary stat.

2nd ed had actual stat requirements for classes, for fuck's sake.
>>376238665
Then BG2 shat on the AD&D rules in that instance, as in some others. Not a big deal. You need 19 int to cast 9th level wizard spells, I have no doubt about it.

>>376235958
That's the biggest negative from the system design in Pillars, where even pure martials get noticeably stronger every level, instead of most levels being 1 THAC0/BAB and not much else.

>>376237770
How the fuck do you sacrifice game design by not assigning arbitrarily the stats and their role to classes, you tremendous faggot?
Did your two fathers not teach you in-between blowjob lessons how words have a certain meaning and we do not forego it willy nilly?

>>376238946
You may be confusing it with Neverwinter.
Mages in BG2 do it with 18

>>376235958
>Druid start cast lightning storm
>Move my party out of range
>Get hit and stunned anyways somehow
>Apparently NPC druids can cast ranged lightning storms while the PC version is a localized AOE around the character
>Decide to wait for them to run out of spells before I go in
>5 lightning storms later, they're still casting them
>Apparently npc druids can cast an ungodly amount of lightning storms despite being level 6

Fuck this game.

>>376233407
All the classes are viable, but that's because they all have to be built exactly the same, stacking the same exact stats.

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>>376238946
>I have no doubt about it

>>376238946
>That's due to balance issues for that single barbarian ability, not any fault of the stats themselves.
>You can actually make a melee damage focused Might barbarian if you so chose, but I suppose it is suboptimal.
The exact same argument applies to D&D. You CAN make a Wisdom-centric wizard, it's just suboptimal.
>2nd ed had actual stat requirements for classes, for fuck's sake.
Each point you put in a stat upgrades your character in some way. This is true in D&D AND in PoE.
Some stats upgrade your character more than others, in such a way that it will be suboptimal not to build your character around your primary stat. This is ALSO true in D&D AND in PoE.

>>376239284
>*returning storm

>>376236435
That would be fine if the game didn't also have roleplaying stat checks for those same attributes which are treated as if they were traditional stats in those dialogue options.

>>376239284
>cant stop their 1 minute cast time
Literally git gud. Attack them with someone or knock them down.

>>376235958
Wizards and bards have mechanics.

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I liked it but a sequel is unnecessary. The combat is boring for more than one game and the new story is gonna be pulled out of their asses.

The very beginning of that giant destroying your castle is ridiculous.

>>376239487
>1 minute cast time
The cast time is around 3.5 seconds and they frequently come in packs of 5

>>376239309
This is so hilariously far from the truth, you don't even know.

>>376239715
GIT

Fuck RPGCodex

>>376239772
Maybe Sawyer should git gud. Baldur's Gate sure as fuck never changed spell mechanics for NPCs

>>376239805
Whats wrong with the codex?

>>376239923
I don't like it when people have opinions that don't match my own.

>>376222181
I agree with you OP, i've started playing it not so long ago and i just started the white march. So far, it is a really really good game. I like the settings and the characters. The companions arent as developped as in bg2 but still, they're great. The game becomereally fun once u start gaining level because it isnt mega hard anymore. It is just the right amount of challenge.

>>376239921
Sorry gramps this isn't DnD

>>376239427
(Not him)
>The exact same argument applies to D&D. You CAN make a Wisdom-centric wizard, it's just suboptimal.
This isn't anywhere the same scale, though. A PoE barbarian that has higher might and dexterity, forgoing intellect is still a functional character, and even is a stronger one on single targets and some clumped-up groups. A D&D wizard with 18 wisdom but 13 intelligence is a cripple.

PoE has nothing like a perfect system, but do you have wider options in terms of your stats for most classes? Yes. There are less dump stats because they all at least have some function for all classes and roles, there's nothing as bad as a fighter having no penalty whatsoever for having 3 charisma. It's still optimal to do things like dump resolve for a ranged character you never intend to get hit, but there's still a downside, and the stats are still balanced more effectively.

>>376240002
Thats a norm for humans, you get dopamine every time you encounter opinion that matches your own and a negative reaction when you encounter a different opinion. Thats how our brains work.

>>376239923
They have actual good taste in RPG's.
despite them hating VTMB

>>376222181
Your taste is absolutely terrible

>>376240316
>A D&D wizard with 18 wisdom but 13 intelligence is a cripple
It's actually compensated well in dnd, since you can dual class or multiclass.

>>376240498
Well, the only good things about VTMB were characters and their interactions, everything else was shit.

>>376240498
>le namedrop old games and never actually play RPGs and just talk about politics Codex
>good taste

>>376240609
Nah it also had fantastic atmosphere, great music, and a good plot. Combat is also overhated, not really bad and I had some fun with it. It's a solid 8.5/10 and it only makes me wonder how much better it would have been if Troika weren't rushed by Valve and Activision.

>>376240915
>namedrop games
>implying they even namedrop games anymore instead of forum celebrities

I played it to the point where you go into a village with people hanged on trees, and dropped the game.
>battle isn't fun
>no fun companion
>nothing interesting happened
>world isn't fun, medieval with magic

There's bascially nothing capture my attention for keep playing.
I went back playing Tales of Zestiria at that time, at least I know what to expect.
>makes friends with anime girls along the journey
>nice anime cutscene
>an easy to understand equipment system for min-maxing
>a hype, against all odds battle beating big bad with power of friendship

Did I miss anything not finishing this game?

>>376241173
Yes, you literally stopped playing at the very begining of the game. You didn't encounter most companions, for example, so it's absurd in your position to claim that there's no fun companion.

Doesn't mean you'd like the game though. You have some pretty good points.

>>376241173
You should have said that your are a weeb shitter from the start.

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>>376241173
The combat is grindy. If you don't like micromanaging party members, then you won't have fun. This is the game of the intellectual, not some anime lover

>>376241173
>medieval
>there are guns
You wut, 8?
>where you go into a village with people hanged on trees
So right past the end of tutorial.
>no fun companion
I take it you didn't meet elf wizard possessed by the ghost of a female fighter.

>>376241754
Thats not what "grindy" means.

>>376230641
>34000 backers
>$4,400,000

So average pledge over $120?

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>>376241887
Why is this geek talking to me

>>376242096
Because you're a faggot.

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>>376242258
Consider killing yourself

>>376242608
Why? I have a great and satisfying life.

>>376241512
>>376241754
I mainly want to complain about nothing capture my attention.
If there's any crazy shit happened, maybe I can stomach the combat and keep playing.
Skyrim also has bad combat, but at least the opening is exciting.

>>376240498
They have shit taste in video games, liking rp"g"s and all that.

>>376243187
>"Who. are you?"

>>376242049
No, because the total figure includes investors to the tune of $2.25m (minimum investment is $1,000.)

>>376227719
I enjoyed the main story on the first and third act, and White March felt like more of the third act.

>>376229246
>I'm hard pressed to think of memorable quests
The quest where you find the scroll just so you go hide it again

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>>376229246
>their quests were short and usually really anticlimactic
That's the point

>>376230269
The combat is pretty good, in my opinion, but they just had way too many trash mobs, so that's why people got sick of it.

>>376222181
/v/ thinks a shitty 3rd-person action game with RPG mechanics (Witcher 3) is the pinnacle of RPGs. Of course they're not going to like an actual old-school style RPG like Pillars.

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>>376222181
/v/ is mostly filled with 12 year olds. its why they spam zelda and pokemon everywhere. they hate good games because they cant understand them.

>>376230641
I don't get your mentality. I played Pillars of Eternity and loved it. Why would I not pay 20 bucks to fund and pre-order the game I am gonna play day 1 anyways?

it gets really fucking boring by the exact moment you posted a screenshot of

>>376231498
Entropy is fucked up and I don't wanna be a part of it. Abydon is the best.

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>>376245119
its a good game, but this post is actually true.
the game gets kinda boring at twin elms.

>>376244996
Pokemon's battle system is deeper and more exciting in every way than PoE.

>>376231616
Objectively Correct Tier
>Return the souls to the bodies they were intended for.

Justifiable Tier
>Send the souls back into the reincarnation cycle.

Cold Tier
>Distribute the essence to existing souls in Dyrwood to strengthen them.

Evil Tier
>Allow the souls to pass through the vein to Woedica.

Shit Nigger What The Fuck Are You Doing Tier
>Disperse the souls to an unknown location.
>Entropically disintegrate the souls, ending their existence.

I don't know why /v/ didn't like it, but I was never a fan of games with large parties that you control and real time combat. I always end up spending 5 minutes on what should be a thirty second fight because it takes so long to pause, issue commands, unpause for 3 seconds and repeat.

>>376244926
Except /v/ gargles Underrail's, Baldur's Gate 2's, Arcanum, ToEE, et cetera's sperm constantly

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>>376231702
You know it!

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>/v/ says x

>>376245525
Just like people who try to look hip by pretending to be avid listeners of classic rock, /v/ as a whole never actually played those games.

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>>376245238
I really want to finish the game but I don't give a fuck about the plot or the party members and all ecounters are the same at this point

>>376245837
>/v/ as a whole
Can you say these words and think you're making any kind of sense?

>>376231875
Just off the top of my head
>The quest about the murders in the underground Theater
>The quest where you rob the mansion
>The quest where you find the scroll (and hide it again)
>The quest with the magician impersonating the other dude and selling drugs

>>376234490
Low endurance mage, dies in 2 hits, maximum endurance mage, dies in 4 hits.

It was bad, over level 8 only dps matters. Not being able to pre-buff means spells like meditation are useless and so is the priest. There is no defending the late game, the zerg rush strategy curb stomps everyone every time.

>>376239673
I don't think you're right about anything you said :/

PoE is good and Tyranny is good too fight me.

>>376235491
I thought it was really shitty. Lame characters, shitty story that turns into a chosen one bullshit. They had a cool concept for a game and they completely failed at doing right by it.

the whole Twin Elm/Burial isle part of the game really feels like a copy/paste of Heart of Winter

>>376235958
Traps aren't found with perception in PoE. They're found with the mechanics skill.

>>376246160
PoE combat is just mediocre and nonsensical
Tyrrany combat is outright garbage thanks to its utter lack of diversity. It might as well not be there.

>>376236753
Yes

How anybody would ever listen to the general census here is beyond me, then again you are probably the same idiots that are responsible for the parrot's meme choice of the month opinions on here in the first place anyway.

>>376246002
Made perfect sense to me, even if he's wrong.

>>376237562
He's pretty tough. I had to cast a lot of Paralyze on him to get through.

>>376238284
Me

Who /took the baby to the dungeon/ here?

>>376236753
Took me a few times to get interested in it to the point where I played it completely in one week, and nothing but it. Won't say it will be the same for you, but I didn't like it at first either. It was my first meaty cRPG too, so I think it's a decent starter.

>>376222181
I think Pillars Of Eternity is REALLY solid, it didn't resonate with me quite like say... Arcanum did for example. But I think considering they're trying to capture the CRPG feel and bring it back as an appealing way to make games, it's a really strong start.

How does this run on a toaster?

I only have a laptop, it's decently new, but not meant for gaming so the video card is pretty meh.

>>376241173
Funny, with me it was the complete opposite. I only managed to play Zestiria for a few hours before giving up. Meanwhile, I have over 200+ on PoE.

>>376232341
tfw only seen the first two movies twice and haven't even seen the third one. At this rate I'm more likely to read it then see it since I just picked The Hobbit back up.

>>376243616
That's Oblivion, dude.

i want to play my first cRPG

should it be underrail?

>>376245119
>>376245238
I disagree. Act 1 starts great. Act 2 turns into a drag. Act 3 is when the game gets its groove back. From the moment you enter Twin Elms, there's a ton of fun and interesting locations and quests. The gods start being the focus and then the plot actually starts getting real with you.

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>>376241173
>I played it to the point where you go into a village with people hanged on trees
You played for 15 minutes and then quit?
I want to say that's nowhere near enough time to judge a game, but given your attention span you clearly don't have the patience to tie your shoes let alone play through a 40-60 hour RPG.

>>376247148
no underrail is terrible unless you like dungeon crawlers

>>376245442
You can give them A.I. if you want, although that feature wasn't there at launch.

>>376246551
>>376237562
I don't even remember that fight but I know I fiddled arround for like 3 hours with that crystal dragon at the bottom of your own castle, till I glitched him out somehow and he stopped moving altogether but even before that my best attempts where cheesy as fuck.

>>376246870
It has awful loading times (In any rig, in general) but it should run well, especially with the latest patches.

>>376247148
Pillars of Eternity is actually a pretty damn good starting point if you're new to CRPGs. There's no better introduction to RTwP.

>>376247348
Adra Dragon was fucking insane. The only way I beat him was with Adra's Stare scrolls and a rush at him tactic.

Then they made an even harder one with the Alpine Dragon.

And then they made the two dragons + the mage in the bog, which is just the most ridiculous shit ever.

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>>376247213
this is really boring, I'm still fighting the same ennemies as I was 10 levels ago and most of my party members are still using the same weapons as they did a long ass time ago.

>>376246083

I did not play BG prior to this, and I can kind of see Obsidian having some weird hate boner for wizards.

-Low endurance bonus from constitution/level
-Low deflection
-Low accuracy
-Does not unlock every spells when you have access to a new spell level
-Can only have 4 spells per level equipped

I get that their spells are powerful and they would probably be broken if they have average stats, but I just hate that they put up all these restrictions as the way to balance them.

>>376247751
The only slow time I had in PoE I felt was near the end of Act 2 because it was so long. I jumped into the expansion before finishing the second act and fought new stuff, got new gear and leveled a ton too. Would suggest playing that content before Act 3 desu.

>>376248169
Thats almost exactly how it was in old dnd.

I was going through my steam library, and saw this game. I thought to myself
>maybe I didn't give this game a fair chance
Installed, booted up, it runs like ass and just getting from one section of the character creator to the next took about 3min.

>>376247751
PoE did have a lot of problems with itemization. I found no reason to switch weapons or armors around. The crafting + enchanting shit also meant I could just force-craft the gear I started with to be on the same level as anything else.

The expansion had a band-aid fix of that when they added some cool items that actually feel special.

>>376248921
Deadfire should improve crafting, since many mods will only be able to be enhanced, rather than added from nothing; a Burning Lash weapon can be changed to Flaming Burst or something like that. I think there's also meant to be varied enchantment caps based on the quality of the weapon to upgrades more frequent.

Honestly, what bothered me most in Pillars in terms it equipment was the recovery penalty system. The optimal setup being 1-2 guys in plate and everyone else in robes ended up being worse than just using something based on 2E D&D armour restrictions.

>>376249710
Honestly, I wish there was no crafting or enchanting to begin with, but I guess that wouldn't be very wise to take out marketing-wise.

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>>376250116
Yeah i didn't like the whole crafting aspect either, Also having to craft food... I just wanna find cool stuff not craft shit

The soundtrack for this game is actually pretty damn great. That's something that doesn't seem to get noticed by anyone else. It's generic but still very competent.

>>376222181
fuck off shill

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>>376222181
okay let's roll if quads it hits.

>>376251349

It's great. I find the WM ost to be more memoriable. Durgan Exterior is my favorite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggrtVfzCJLI&t

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>>376225212
Pretty much

I can't tell you how many games I tried despite /v/ flipping their shit, only to find out the supposed "shit" aspect of a game is actually nothing or actually good.

Mafia 3 for instance. /v/ ONLY bitched about "omg niggers black pride gaem is racist!"
When race and ampstophere is the one thing (and gunplay) it did right and was actually awesome. The game still sucked, but because it's missions were boring as fuck, but /v/ never talked about that and probably didn't even know. You retards regurgitate the same shit because thinking for yourself is hard.

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>>376252964
>The Watcher Prevails

>>376253081
This

>>376252964
I liked the music, but Justin Bell is no Jeremy Soule. Sawyer got lucky finding Soule back when he was a minnow and Black Isle could still afford him. Oldsong and Ondra's Gift are legitimately top shelf, though.

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>find a cool accessory with +stat effect
>find another cool accessory with +stat effect
>oh boy surely i can combine them for some fun times
>nope
and it was the moment when i understood that i'm playing in a pile of trash

>>376253436
PoE complaints are generally pretty nitpicky, but this takes the cake.

>>376253321
Nobody can top Mark Morgan, though.
The work he's done on Fallout and Planescape is impeccable.

>>376253614
I don't think Morgan does soundtracks for epic high fantasy, does he? I can't imagine something like PS:T's music fitting the Pillars setting.

>>376253614
>>376254554
Fuck, he was supposed to make soundtrack for Prey 2.

>>376253597
I think he's just talking about how you can't stack effects

If you have a bracelet that gives you 3 might and gloves that give you 2 might, only the bracelet counts, instead of going full crazy rpg mode and giving you 5 total

>>376253614
>>376253321
>>376252964
they should hire Rik Schaffer to do the soundtrack for PoE2.
Fucker did some work on ESO and it's 10/10. Apparently he did some 35 tracks but the "lead sound designer" got buttmad and didn't want him on the project, and the only reason Rik's one track made it in was because the ESO lead project guy told the lead audio guy to fuck off (because he was long time friends with Rik).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Qw7lGfqFo

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>All these walls of text from people I don't care about, about their life which adds nothing to the world or the story.

FUCKING. WHY.

>>376256290
Are you 'talking' to NPCs with gold names? If so, don't.

Things that I most look forward to in PoE 2.

-Custom AI script
-Every class using a resource system to activate abilities
-Companions more in-depth
-Better descriptions on the game mechanics
-A main quest that is more than just text dumps
-Better stronghold system

PoE has gone through like 3 overhaul patches since /v/ played it

I mean, I keep MEANING to replay it to see what Sawyer's autism has done to a game I actually felt pretty fucking disappointed with, but there's other games to play. If they ever sell the White March expansion pass REAL cheap, then maybe. I also wholly skipped out on Tyranny since it looked like an even shittier PoE made by their interns.

>>376256290
Oh fuck, DON'T CLICK THE PEOPLE WITH THE GOLDEN PLATES. They're NPCs that were designed by the backers. Completely irrelevant to the rest of the game. Ignore them.

>>376256363
>>376256836
I learned that quickly. I'm talking about town folk. People who have no quests related to them, are not involved with any part of the story and never become important. They had to tell me their life fuckig story

>>376256453
>-Every class using a resource system to activate abilities
This sounds gay. What was wrong with vancian casting?

>>376256453
They will probably still do the retarded shit where every class needs every attribute to be good

>Want your arcane bolts to do more damage?
>BETTER INVEST IN FUCKING STRENGTH

Also the per day spell system is wank and Tyranny took a step in the right direction by not having it

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I just finished the main story, I can't continue on ?

How the fuck do I play The White March then ?

>>376258124
try reading the journal maybe you fucking ape

>>376258124
Go to the save before you jump into the hole. Go to Caed Nua and talk to the statue, you should get a message that lets you travel to White March

Also, have you beaten Concelhaut and Llengrath yet? That stuff is technically in the normal map. Maybe you need to talk to the statue for those too.

>>376258398
How is it related ?

I thought the game would at least give me a The End autosave but nope.

>>376258595
why would it give you a "the end" autosave? there's literally nothing after the end boss
it creates a "the end" save file but it's meant to be imported to PoE2, you can't use it in poe1

Does the game get any better in Act 3? The ending to act 2 was fucking retarded and basically made me drop the game

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>>376258725
>BG, BG2, and Icewind Dale did the expansion thing well
>PoE forces you to load your pre end save

>>376222181

It's not bad just meh. It's like 20 hours too long and incredibly bland writing/setting wise

>>376257479
you got vancian ''boost'' apparently. Maybe something like empower/maximise on a X/day for when you need it

>>376258595
You've got a pre-point-of-no-return save, and the expansion content being available before you go after Thaos is made quite clear.

>>376258886
White March is handled in almost the exact same way as Heart of Winter for IWD was, except it's made more obvious when you can go there. They're both separate adventures, accessible from the midgame, featuring content harder than the main game's final boss, and inaccessible if you beat the main storyline.

>Complete WM1
>Go kill thaos

BAD END

>>376259294
I'm pretty sure you can go to heart of winter after beating the main story of IWD since I beat the main game but never managed to get past the burial isle due to a bug that gave me like 0.1 FPS against assholish ennemies

>>376222181
>Play Pillars of Eternity
Made me realize how bad it was compared to Baldur's Gate 2
>Play Tyranny
Made me realize Pillars of Eternity was actually a decent game

Anyone else felt this?

>>376259410
Really? That's pretty awesome.

>>376259981
I always enjoyed Pillars of Eternity, but when you look at every other kickstarted RPG that came out and then Tyranny, you really realize how this is actually as good as it gets nowadays

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>make pillars thread with similar point
>no one responds

>>376259564
Nah, once you unlock Brother Poquelin's chambers and enter in the temple, you're locked in to the vanilla endgame and can't leave. Killing the boss at the end gets you the ending cinematic and you're booted to the title screen.

By contrast, killing the white dragon at the end of Heart of Winter and then leaving the area gets you the expansion ending cinematic, but once it finishes you reappear in Kuldahar.

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>>376260434
>By contrast, killing the white dragon at the end of Heart of Winter

Oh shit so I actually finished heart of winter

>>376247309
Oh neat, I might give it another try then. I only played it a little right after launch.

>>376259981
No, I played the initial version and hated it, then played 3.0+ and mostly enjoyed it. The balance changes, removal of trash mobs, increased polish and expansion really saved the game.

If deadfire has more interesting itemization, character creation and more in-depth companions I might even buy it.

>>376257479

Personally I hate the per rest system. It forces you to rest more often which breaks immersion, and at the same time people can always go back to town if they don't care about it, so it's not really a deterrent either. Per rest can work, just not with open world where people can always go back to town and make the camp limit pointless.

>>376222181
/v/ hates good games. Fuck /v/.

>>376262005
The solution to that is to have dungeons that close themselves off until you beat them. Force the scrubs to GIT GUD.

>>376260794
Dumb frogposter :^)

>>376261880
I hope they manage to strike a good balance between soulbound items and 'regular' unique magic items. It's not interesting if you just get the one specific soulbound item for a weapon type fairly early on, and then never think of replacing it. Or, as we had in White March, some soulbound items getting shit on by uniques that weren't even hard to obtain (Bittercut springs to mind.)

>>376222181
It's okay.

>>376262141

Agreed on soulbound being underwhelming. It's also frustrating to level. I am trying to level Steadfast on my tank Eder right now and it's taking forever. I will stick with it even though I heard a fully upgraded one isn't that good. I got tired of changing out equipments.

>>376262141
Soulbound items should be better than everything else in its level range, just make the item stop scaling after 3-4 levels forcing the player to get an upgrade, or make the items have special effects that could make them a viable choice even once you've out-leveled them.

>>376222181
It's not bad as such, it's pretty decent. Thing is that it's just very generic and bland. It's okay though...

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Reminder that there will be romance in PoE 2
Maia Rua is mine

>>376264226
Shark look way better than in 1

i tried to like pillars i really tried, but then i got to twin elms and was attacked by giant walls of exposition again, fuck this shit im out

>>376265067
twin helm is literally like 2h from the end of the game

>>376265648
i still had to go all the way down in the castle dungeon or is that optional?

>>376266350
Optional

>>376266350
That mega dungeon was so fucking bad, what were they thinking?

>>376222181
It had a buggy as shit launch which caused me to stop playing it. I'll get back to it as some point, I guess it has to be patched by now.

>>376266704
>We'll add a new floor for each 100 backers
Something like that

>>376266704
They had too many people joining the social media campaign, so there's loads of useless filler levels. Hopefully Deadfire's version is better, since they predetermined the limit of it, and it's a bunch of separate islands so they don't really need to extend the storyline beyond what's necessary.

> $45

It's a nono

>>376266704
I didn't think it was bad, but its story certainly was slow to pick up. You progress some 10 levels without anything really major being revealed.

>>376267935
it's less than 30 bucks on g2a with the expansion included, I think I paid like 23 euros

is PoE the type of game where i can do cheese builds by dumping all points into a few stats that complement each other

>>376267935
if you aren't going to play it because of the cost, why not just pirate it? the dev doesn't lose out on anything either way.

i'm surprised there really are people who dislike piracy that much

>>376269674
no because autism

>>376269831
the game couldn't fail financially anyway since it was funded and then some before even getting released

>>376269962
making a shitty game nobody likes means you probably won't be able to make more games because no funding

>>376269674
Yeah.

>>376269674

It's harder to dump anything in PoE because each attribute gives you something that is applicable regardless of class. When you have enough experience you can fully dump one or two attributes.

>>376269881
if you're being serious that makes me not want to play

>>376270836
>this sucks why did the devs not make half the attributes pointless like in baldur's gate?

>>376271013
I can't even begin to understand how what I said can only be true if half of attributes are pointless

>>376222181

I'm numb

>>376271013
they made even worse, the attributes only have perceivable effect at 3, 10 and whatever the max you can get

>>376270802
Nah. I dumped Perception and Intelligence all the way down for the sake of high Might, Constitution, Dexterity and Resolve. I lost on a small bit of accuracy, area of effect size (so I speced for single target abilities) and ability duration (so I specced for instantaneous abilities), wrecked shit all over the place with ridiculous damage.

>>376271013
>half the attributes pointless like in baldur's gate?
??
STR and DEX can be made redundant with specific items if you know where to get said items, but that limits your itemisation later on when you aren't able to swap out for stuff that improves thac0 for example. (think dex gloves and gloves of weapon expertise)

CON is great on every class. WIS is still useful for druids/clerics and even mages because of Wish. INT is vital for mages.

CHA is the only underutilised stat of the lot, both made redundant by a ring that's easy to get pretty much immediately and also not generally useful as a stat in the first place, changing minimal dialogue options, and reputation can make up for a lack of it too.

>>376247148
Knights of the Old Republic

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>The heart of this country has skipped a beat. Nothing more. I have done far worse. I plunged the peaceful kingdom of Tolosus into civil war. I slew the monarch of Desontio, whose people never knew hardship under his rule, and replaced him with a cruel despot who brought them to ruin. When plague arrived at the great city of Arborensis, I saw to it that the cure did not. They piled their dead outside the city in heaps that rose above their walls. ... Their histories are droplets of water falling into an endless sea. They are significant unto themselves for a moment, and then they are gone.
What the fuck was his problem?

>>376253081
I'm pretty sure /v/ mentioned the shitty repetitive missions but the only thing you had your eyes on was the LOL NIGGER comments. I've been in those threads so I know

>>376273736
He's not saying half the attributes are just pointless for everyone, he's saying that for a given character many of the attributes end up being worthless. For single-class characters, 2E D&D has loads of defunct attributes.

Yeah, divine spellcasters get a lot of use out of wisdom, and mages get some use from it in the late game with Wish, but you know what it does for a fighter? Literally nothing. There are stats you might as well dump in PoE, but at least you're losing something. And things like a ranged character getting hit and interrupted because you dumped resolve happen a lot more than, for example, mind flayers meaning intelligence is 'useful' for everyone.

Also, there are huge dead-zones where a wide range of abilities have no mechanical difference (or no meaningful mechanical difference.) For example, both dexterity and constitution have absolutely zero effect from 7-14. A guy with 7s in both should be a sickly, clumsy dude, and a guy with 14s in both should be agile and tough, but they are identical.

>>376274512
I don't know if he was written edgy of if he had some motive that didn't make it into the game

>>376275391
wow yeah gee why doesn't a purely physical character only rely on purely physical stats, the ruleset is certainly not designed that way with multiclass allowing a character to take advantage of all stets gee wiz the people who designed 2E are so dumba dumb

>>376222181
>a few anonymous people had a different opinion than you one time
>hurrr omg literally an entire image board hated a game that I like omg durrr I'm a huge faggot please face fuck me
You're such a colossal failure.

>>376275459
The motive did make it into the game, though. They spelled it out in detail.

>>376248169
POE gives mages absurd defensive spells, but again, no pre-buffing, and by the time there up, your melee companions will be half way through the battle, and again once you hit that level 8 mark.

The biggest problem is just that, leveling means everything.

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>2017
>playing pillars
>not playing rpgs that arent garbage

>>376256467
let me sum it up for you, Paladins better, Cipher much worse, not from a balance point of view, just from a fun one.

>>376274926
Nope I used to dwell in those threads as well. The repetitive missions and shitty open world aspects were only very rarely brought up.

>>376275570
Do you not at least think that it's a bit stupid that every single character benefits from a high dexterity, but that only a single class (without the backported sorcerer) benefits from intelligence? Conan would be dead a hundred times over if he wasn't smart, maybe there should be some combat use for a warrior's brains.

Much of 2E's system design is bad, and it's worse in CRPG adaptations which fail to implement all of it (e.g. wisdom's saving throw bonus doesn't exist in BG.) I don't think Sawyer is some systems design god, and some of the smart features in PoE's design like there being a benefit for every single point above and below 10 would be more awkward to implement on a system designed to be played without a computer. BG2 is still the better game, but it's not better because of being a (flawed) port of 2E.

>>376276531
This, fuck D&D nerds. I appreciate Pillars trying to go for something new and I didn't mind the system.

>>376275948

Why have a wizard do self-buff when you can get a priest that can do AOE buff? I feel that the priest is too indispensable. Not having one is almost equal to adding a level in difficulty. At the same time I don't know what the solution is. Priest get less buffs and other casters get more?

>>376276992
again your absolutely right accept for < level 8. I hate repeating it, but every time I play the game I think it's pretty neato, then around the end of defiance bay I stop casting all together, things just die too quickly.

Only solution I can think of are status spells. Also for healing paladin takes care of that pretty well when your focusing on DSP. In old dnd I think clerics were a necessity every time, so no change there. Hell, the optimized build for Icewindale 2 on the hardest setting includes 2 clerics.

>>376276992
Yeah, priests are the strongest class in a party by quite a margin. I think the next game is meant to more heavily restrict their spells based on patron deity, so priests of Eothas aren't going to have a bunch of nukes and Skaenites will lose a lot of buffs (I guess, I don't think we've been given specifics about what exactly will be restricted by deity yet.)

>>376276171
Rangers are much better now, too.

>>376275459
did you play the game?
'cause he quite literally lays out his entire motivations in a flashback

>>376275570
the stat descriptions say they do things, but they actually do not. if you think this is good, please die

>>376277378
The problem is that most things are tuned under the assumption that you're doing the critical path and maybe a handful of the most obvious sidequests, so if you do almost everything, you quickly over-level stuff a lot of content and breeze through it.

It doesn't help many of the other classes that in IWD2 a self-buffed cleric is better at doing a fighter's job than a fighter is, except he can also buff the party, debuff the enemy and heal.

>>376275858
>>376277820

so what were his motives for overthrowing X king and replacing him with a despot and spreading plagues into prosperous cities ?

>>376278531
To slow or stop the development of civilization, in particular of things like animancy. Woedica hates it.

>>376278531
he destroyed cities and kings that were seeking the truth about the gods because he wanted to protect mankind from the imoral life style that will come when they realize there is no God and no after-life/structure to the world, that it's all a meaningless chaos. IIRC He says that if the truth were found, mankind would degenerate into constant wars and society would crumble under increasingly immoral and selfish acts. WIth Gods to answer to, these instincts can be controlled and the sacrifice that Thaos's civilization made will have meant something.

>>376278531
If you researched science, you will inevitably reach an understanding of animancy. At a certain point, you know how to create and destroy gods. Thaos makes sure the civilizations never get to that point.

>>376275391
>And things like a ranged character getting hit and interrupted because you dumped resolve happen a lot more than, for example, mind flayers meaning intelligence is 'useful' for everyone.
Fair enough. Unrelated: I used to hate mind flayers until I learned their ultimate weakness.
They can't detect invisibility at all. Mislead + backstab tears them to shreds!

>Also, there are huge dead-zones where a wide range of abilities have no mechanical difference (or no meaningful mechanical difference.)
Yeah I'm not a huge fan of that either. Still, it does give some leeway for how you dump points in stats if you know how to work around it, and, to be fair, there's only so many penalties you can give per point of a stat in a d20 system.

>>376222181
kill yourself shill

>>376278364
>in IWD2 a self-buffed cleric is better at doing a fighter's job than a fighter is
DO HLAs not exist in IWD2? Fighter HLAs keep them relevant for the entire of BG2 and even ToB.

>>376279942
It's 3E, so no. It does have epic levels, but they're not implemented in the Epic Level Handbook style, it's just that you can go above level 20.

2E warriors are also much stronger than 3E ones even before HLAs, thanks to extra attacks not having iterative penalties. Unless you're doing nothing but fighting huge swarms of weak enemies that you can dump AoEs on, a 2E fighter should always end up ahead of your caster's damage (of the buffed melee cleric or wizard variety,) so even though 2E had the crazy layers of protection that mages could shield themselves with to be the premier tanks, at least offensively the warrior classes some use.

>>376222181
/v/ has never had a good opinion on anything collectively