Why is Sonic Team so fucking frightened to go back to this style

true as the deep blue

what the fuck /v/, im trying to discuss this shit

>>376178395
Hey man I'm with ya. I really miss characters like shadow and metal sonic being part of the big story.

Because the last time they tried it Sonic 06 was the result. Granted, that game had a troubled development almost worthy of calling it the E.T. of the 21st century but still, it is what it is.

SA2 was the highlight of the series. It had a ton of memes and cliches, but it's probably one of the best most fondly remembered Sonic games on here.

>>376179389
When done right, it proves to be Sonic's best outings.

>>376179586

Here, as in /v/? Because SA2's quality is HOTLY debated on /v/. I think there's honestly more fans of Shadow the Hedgehog here. Still, could be worse. Could be like trying to talk about Sonic Heroes or Secret Rings here.

>>376179748
SA2 is the most divided game on /v/, either you think it's awesome or the worst game ever made.

>>376179748
>Could be like trying to talk about Sonic Heroes or Secret Rings here.

They're both shitty, but for different reasons.

Sonic Heroes has a lot going for it, but some of the smaller things ruin it for me:

>the constant talking
>the super moves
>the awkward and tedious team switch mechanic
>the music

It's basically a fusion of the old 2D design philosophies with the new recent 3D games at the time. I enjoy playing it, but I'd rather play Sonic Adventure 1 or 2.

>>376179748
Everyone on here loves the chao garden.

>>376179796
Even if you think SA2 is bad, it's nowhere near the worst game ever made. You're a retarded idiot if you think so

>>376179748
>that one guy who complains about the level lengths of heroes every thread

>>376179921
How in the fuck could you dislike Heroes' music? What's wrong with you? Honest question

>>376179963
>10 minutes of repeated segments is good.

>>376178395
Because it sucked. Getting proper physics is the easy part. Good luck getting both ergonomic controls and levels that properly utilize the physics without fighting the camera or being boring, open messes.

>>376178395
>Fuck the haters, they never truly liked Sonic to begin with anyways.
You mean the people that started with Sonic on the 16 bit console?

Naw, 2D games for the rest of your life now.

>>376180047
This is the only song I remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw6KRkx0vNg

>>376180057
>or being boring, open messes.
They're clearly fine with boring given how generations, unleashed, and colours never engage your brain for a single second

Why does Forces have more than one sonic again? This stupid gimmick should have ended with Generations

>>376178395
Because Iizuka is retarded and doesn't know how to make a good 3D game.

>>376179702
Sonic Adventure 1 is a clusterfuck and Sonic Adventure 2 is as well. Shoving as much stupid shit as you can into a game does not make it good.

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>>376180057
>navigating the Egg Carrier inside and outside while it's flying or crashing
>boring

>>376178395
SONIC'S ARMS ARE NOT BLUE

i mean we haven't had a good sonic in forever. generations was alright but the levels were very hit and miss with the best being the recycled levels

>>376180240
Adventure 2 is streamlined. How exactly is it a clusterfuck?

>>376179921
That opening song is probably the only good thing about Sonic Heroes.

I remember being so excited for that game since as a kid Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were my only Sonic games that I'd played up to that point, and I INSTANTLY knew something was off when I played the first level. The whole game just felt so much stiffer.

To be fair, NOBODY ever truly liked Sonic to begin with.

>>376180551
>is streamlined
More than Adventure, maybe. They still have three fucking play-styles, two of which aren't fun. Regardless of whether you think they are, it's shit design to force people to sift through shit just to get to the good part.

NO ONE LIKES YOU ADEVNTUREFAGS, GET OVER IT ALREADY.

YOU WANT THE ERA WHERE SONIC WAS AT HIS WORST TO COME BACK. YOU WANT CRINGEWORTHY FINAL FANTASY TIER PLOTS IN A GAME ABOUT A CARTOON HEDGEHOG.

JUST DIE.

Adventure is shit. It never worked. Never will. Get over it.

>>376180719
yeah I think that's slightly more preferable to a new flavour the month set of ugly villains straight from the newest dreamworks cash grab, where at the end it turns out the real enemy was an ancient evil called "dark ______" who is a giant purple cloud

>>376180719
RIGHT BRO!?

JUST GIVE US THE NEW EPIC SONIC GAMES WHERE WE PUSH FORWARD TO WIN AND THEN SOMETIMES PUSH RIGHT TO GO THROUGH THE LOOPS AND THEN WIN.

>>376178395
i fucking hate the sonic games. the genesis games and the newer games like unleashed, generations, colors, etc.
however, i fucking LOVE the adventure games. they are just really charming platformers despite some of their flaws. sonic team should go back into making games like that and polish up the gameplay a bit more to make the greatest sonic game ever. forces and mania look like shit.

>>376180671
Well that's just like, your opinion man. There are people out there who don't have any problems with the other two playstyles and enjoy them as much as the Sonic/Shadow stages, so they aren't wading through """"shit"""", as the entire game is the """"good part"""" for them.

>>376178395
Because the last time they tried that, the result was 06 and it was a train wreck.

>>376178395
But my favorite e-celeb said it was a bad game.

>>376180156
Subjective.

>>376180719
>DUDE JUST PRESS FORWARD TO WIN AND THE OCCASIONAL QUICK TIME EVENT! THAT'S TRUE SONIC!

>>376180719
FUCKING LOVE ME SOME CRINGEWORTHY PLOTS IN MY SONIC GAMES MAN. THEY'RE WHAT MAKES THEM SO ENJOYABLE.

>>376180240
>>376180671
The problem is that even in the post-06 era they still shove in as much shit as they possibly can, they're just level specific but still intrusive gimmicks instead of separate playstyles tied to separate characters.

The core problem is that Sonic Team, and by that I mean Iizuka because he's been either lead director or lead producer for every mainline game over the past 20 years besides 06 and Unleashed, is too incompetent to design a core 3D gameplay that can stand on its own without needing retarded gimmicks or alternate gameplay styles to try and hide the flaws.

>>376180892
And there are people who don't like that shit. Why should they be forced to play two-thirds of something that don't like to get to the parts they actually do? It's shit game design.

That's the problem with basically all of the modern Sonic games and dating back as far as fucking Knuckles' Chaotix. Why can't Sonic Team just focus on one thing and do it well? Why the fuck is it so difficult for them? Why do they feel the need to shove as much shit into their games as possible? Just to pad them out. That's why. Because people will bitch that their games are too short, even if the alternative is the game wasting your time with bullshit. The Adventure games do it, Shadow does it, '06 does it, Unleashed does it, and Forces is looking to do the same shit.

>>376179963
>>376180047
Imagine if Heroes had Shadow's Chaos Control ability (not the one it currently had that stopped time) that let him zip forward through the level.

>>376181094
>Iizuka because he's been either lead director or lead producer for every mainline game over the past 20

Is this fucking true? Fire the cunting gook.

>>376180837
>>376180963
I, too, hate Adventure's scripted platforming.

>>376181254
ROLLING AROUND AT THE SPEED OF SOUND

Seriously though has anybody ever written extensively about how Sega and Sonic Team has managed to allow their mascot to turn to utter shit and CONSISTENTLY make bad to subpar games?

Like who's at the helm that allows 06 and Boom to happen? At this point why not just give the IP to a studio. say take all the time you need, and shut the door?

Imagine if a mainline Mario game was released with the quality of Boom? Every higher up over seeing it would be fired.

>>376181347
GOT PLACES TO GO GOTTA FOLLOW MY RAINBOW

>>376181356
>Seriously though has anybody ever written extensively about how Sega and Sonic Team has managed to allow their mascot to turn to utter shit and CONSISTENTLY make bad to subpar games?
Fucking every wannabe e-celeb from here to Guadalajara has written and/or talked about how much Sonic sucks.

>>376181424
https://youtu.be/XmVagnlM-Ys

Thread theme

>>376181254
>I, too, hate Adventure's scripted platforming.
You mean the ones that don't exist?

>>376181497
>Smash Mouth's All-Star became a radio hit and this song never did

Fuck this gay earth

>>376178395
Because waifus killed sonic

>>376181529
I must have hallucinated two entire games. Damn. I should get into game development. Or maybe not, those were some glitchy, go straight, platforming-void, heavily automated, gimmick-ridden pieces of shit.

>>376181627
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa0Q5OwnVuQ

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Anti-Sonicfags are more annoying than Sonicfags

Arin

>>376181480
No, not about how much he sucks really, but an actual investigation into how Sega doesn't seem to actually care about the quality of Sonic games and how games CONTINUOUSLY end up bad.

Both 06 and Boom were supposed to be big sereis games and both are released in horrible nearly unplayable states. Did anybody even get fired over Boom?

>>376181706
Sonic adventure was never hold forward to win, stop making shit up.

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>>376181497
Look how sexy the singer is

>>376179586
Fuck you nigga. Sonic Unleashed is the best platformer of all time.

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>>376181893

>>376181714
I can't believe I said that and this exists

I had no idea. The fucking Internet man.

>>376181236
I just think that you're offended that there are more than one play style, than you are about the actual play styles themselves.

>Shadow does it
How? There's only one play style in that game

>Unleashed does it
I think the Werehog was planned to be in that game since it's inception, not to pad things out. That's a retarded way to look at it. I swear people like you love going into Sonic games with their preconceived notions and when it's not like how you think it should be, you get angry and curse at it for not fitting into your delusional way of thinking.

>>376181951
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrLSgac3WmM
It isn't the only one.
This one isn't as good.

>>376180619

It's funny you say that considering Heroes was far more rooted in the tradition of the Genesis games than the Sonic Adventure games were. Technically speaking, Heroes was more traditional and Adventure was the "off" one.

>>376181810
Except when you only had to run forward, which was the whole thing save for treasure hunting and fishing, which were gimmicky garbage. Except when those disgusting automated sections filled with dashpads and springs happened, which were 80% of speed stages. Except when you had to hit enemies because fuck actually having some 3D gameplay in a 3D platformer, just mash the jump button midair and be done with it.

>>376181748

Man, Ed, Edd n Eddy was good.

>>376182178
What the fuck did you expect in a 3D platformer? To run backwards? Fucking retard

>>376182426
I expect to have to platform. It is in the name after all.

>>376182426
I expected something EAD mastered in 96: 3D platforming. The kind you actually play instead of entering a scripted sequence, with decent controls, a functional camera and not clipping through the fucking ground every 40 minutes.

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>>376182289
>>376181748
Remember when Edd decided to be a rock star? That was a fun spin-off show.

>>376181958
It was a general statement about their games being bloated as fuck.
Whether it was planned or not, it still clashes terribly either everything else and the dumb medals don't help things either.

>>376182563
Okay, and there IS platforming, and lots of it at that. Now watch you say some bullshit and claim there isn't because being a contrarian is cool as fuck and you'll surely fit in on /v/!

>>376182760
>and lots of it at that
Whatever, fag.
75% of levels are boost pads, loops, light dash rings, homing attack strings, rails, jump pads, or any other automated segment between the two Adventure games. And that's not counting the non-Sonic stages.
>if you don't have a pair of rose-tinted goggles super glued to your face then you're just a contrarian
I wonder if it's hard to concentrate with so much dick up your ass.

>>376181356
>Seriously though has anybody ever written extensively about how Sega and Sonic Team has managed to allow their mascot to turn to utter shit and CONSISTENTLY make bad to subpar games?
I can answer the "CONSISTENTLY make bad to subpar games" for you

The team admitted fairly recently that they never felt ready to ship a Sonic game lacking gimmicks and/or additional playstyles. They'd rather tack on experimental mechanics than polish up the main game.

>>376179586
SA1 was leagues better. As a sequel, it sucked mate.

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>>376182987
>Gets proven wrong
>"lol ur a fag"

THUNDER

>>376182760
Yeah, like that time when you ran on a straight line and the camera panned over you. And that time when you mashed the jump button midair to reach the other side. And that time when you grind a rail. And that time you hit a spring once and get thrown around without any input. Sonic Adventure was a cinematic platformer, come to think of it.

>>376183120
Not an argument.

>>376183241
You got smoked.

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>>376183241
Neither was resorting to gay jokes, friend

>>376183241
>Not an argument
Not an argument

>>376183120
I notice /m/ posters don't know anything about games. Just the other day there was a guy showcasing his PS4 digital library full of western shovelware along the Gundam kusoge.

>>376183361
Not my problem you ignored the important parts to get butthurt over being called a dickchugger.

>>376183194

>And that time when you grind a rail.

Hey, there was an artform to rail grinding. I learned that the hard way by my little brother being a shit and picking Metal Sonic in the multiplayer rail race. He'd just hold the crouch button to win while I actually had to nail the momentum on every curve because Metal Sonic was just that busted. Rails were not cinematic shit, man. There was an art to the curve.

>>376182651
The only great things we got from the abortion that is Sonic Underground is that God-tier theme song and Tamers

>>376182987
That just straight up isn't true. You're quite literally talking out of your ass right now. We have people like you in every one of these threads. I'd like you to bring up a specific level from SA1 or 2 that does this. Oh wait, you can't. :^)

>>376183496
I'm not the dude you were arguing with, pal

>>376183496
Go let everyone know you secretly want to suck cocks somewhere else, faggot.

>>376183559
Pretty much every one. Some more, some less.
>>376183586
Not my problem either.

>>376183676
>bring up a specific level
lmao

>>376183676
>He has no examples

>>376178395
Most of /v/ never actually played the original Genesis Sonic games on actual Genesis hardware because they were too young to even have one.

>>376183726
Metal Harbor is easily the worst offender of the top of my head. Happy, autist?

>>376183809

Sonic Adventure 2 was my first Sonic game and my first Sega console was a Dreamcast because I grew up in a Nintendo family.

I'm 25 years old.

>>376183842
Metal harbor isn't hold forward to win at all, you pulled that out of your ass.

>>376182760
>lots of it at that
Sonic Adventure basically popularized the setpieces and many of the levels in both Adventure games have problems with constantly railroading you into boost pads and springs. There's more platforming than the boost games at least.

>>376183894
You missed out on some Sega Genesis desu friend.

>>376183809
Nope, there was the Sonic Mega Collection on the gamecube and ps2.

>>376183982
>There's more platforming than the boost games at least.
There isn't, but try contesting their nostalgia.

>>376184019
>on actual Genesis hardware

>>376184047
Liar

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>>376184019
>>376184075
>exposed his age
>then he exposed his reading comprehension

kek

>>376184285
>Most of /v/ never actually played the original Genesis Sonic games on actual Genesis hardware
>on actual Genesis hardware
I dunno what the fuck your point is. The mega collection is not Genesis hardware.

>>376178395

>implying sonic was ever good

Dude, I have 3 words for you.

JET.
SET.
RADIO.

>>376184393
He was agreeing with you and saying that most people played them on Mega Collection, dumbshit.

>>376181810
City Escape was 80% hold forward to win and people consider that one of the best levels of the game; also Metal Harbor and the jungle level were just as bad.
Also any level with lots of rails (the last couple of both Sonic's and Shadow's levels) punished you for even thinking of touching the stick while in the air as that would send you careening into the abyss.

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>>376178395
>people who didn't like adventure were never sonic fans

>>376183517
The artform is "Don't fucking do anything" the rails shoot you to the next rail with magnet shoes and any minor movements on your part sending you to your death I fucking hated Sonic's last stage because of this.

>>376184560
Why are people's complaints about the Adventure titles so asinine and retarded?

How is going forward in a 3D platformer bad? Again, are you expecting to move backwards? God this complaint is so fucking retarded it's making me sound retarded just replying to you. Fuck off and never play a Sonic game again

>>376184560
It never was hold forward to win you piece of shit liar, it was comparable to boost sonic.

>>376183559
Metal Harbor, City Escape, and Final Rush are all horrendous offenders of this. Just run on boost pads and spam homing attack when you get to a pit. Don't forget rail grinding to give your fingers a break because touching the controller in mid-air is a death wish.

FOLLOW ME
SET ME FREE
TAKE MY HAND

>>376184872

Mid-leap, yes. The actual twists and turns while on a rail, that entails tilting the stick with the curve very precisely to maintain maximum speed, allowing you to launch farther distances than just mindlessly holding the crouch button.

>>376185060
You have no idea what hold forward to win even means do you? It's not hold forward to win when going for S ranks.

>>376183932
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NlM8M7dND0

Where is the platforming?

>>376184089
Ask yourself this: How often do you need to jump? When forced to jump through scripted sequences, do you need to control your fall? How often do you have to account for enemies as anything but traversal methods for homing attack? Can anything stop you after you spindash?

ITT piece of shit lying nigger bastards claim a bunch of horse shit about the Adventure titles and patricians put them in their place

>Why is Sonic Team so fucking frightened

Why do you assume this?

>>376184884
It's not about going forward. It's about the game throwing you into straight lines and boost pads because it looks cool.

>>376185261
>>376185276
It is platforming, you jump often and can die if you just hold forward without thinking. Nu-/v/ is just nitpicking scum.

>>376185439
Adventure has less platforming and is more automated than the boost formula.

Any potential SA1's Sonic gameplay had was completely thrown away by SA2 when when they styled every level after trash like windy valley 3 and speed highway 1 (IE, barely interactive rectangular corridor floating over a bottomless pit).

>>376185575
There is no automation in sonic adventure

>>376185290
>people who like the Adventure games are patricians
lmao

Literally the only Sonic fans who are particians are Classicfags. Sonic has literally never been as good as it was on Genesis. Every single modern Sonic game has glaring fucking flaws in many ways, and many of those flaws are shared through all of the games.

It's hilarious when people from one side refuse to acknowledge the problems the games they like have. Adventurefags, Unleashedfags, boostfags, whatever. You're arguing over which turd is shinier.

>>376185261
Fucking hell, I forgot about those ring paths. SA2 is even worse than I remember.

>>376185439
Except you can't because the angles and speed you hit the jumps (which the handy dandy boost pads conveniently provide) plop you right onto a boost pad unless you spaz out during the jump.

>>376185723
>>376185727
>>376185753
Lying nitpicking nu-/v/ scum

>>376185439
Never said it was hold forward. I said it had a severe lack of actual platforming, which it does. btfo

>>376185884
No, you're BTFO you cunt.

I remember this game
It was on dreamcast
My favorite part was the casino where you need to stack rings to get to the emerald
also the Chao raising/racing

>>376185854
>nu-/v/

/v/ has only liked SA2 for its extremely catchy music. Notice how when people mention the good times of SA2 they are just singing Escape from the City, Pumpkin Hill, and Live and Learn. They don't talk about Rouge's stupid timed heist, Knuckles's underwater caves, Shadow's stupid rail levels, or Eggman's piss-easy shooting gallery.

>>376185854
Dumb nigger. Go back to streaming your shitty Sonic games, you stupid nigger. The day of the rope will come and I will laugh when I see you hanging there as you let go of your fucking Sonic plushie, you fucking nigger child.

>>376185313
To be blunt, the games just suck massive dick now. There's no passion and no ambition. The heavily flawed boost style gameplay with gimmicks and nostalgia pandering is all they've been fucking doing since 2010. The series isn't moving forward, it's stuck in the fucking past. They're afraid to go all out and do something new and fresh. It's why we're getting Classic Sonic in Forces again. It's why we have simplified stories written by people who don't know shit about the franchise.

>>376178395
they couldn't even make a good sequel to sa1 and cant even get 2d gameplay right after 4 years sonic team are hopeless

>>376178395
>Fuck the haters
These are the people that defend Sonic Adventure

>>376186157
Not him, but you're the fucking nigger you nigger. You can't enjoy the Adventure titles simply because you are a evil tasteless nigger.

mods pls don't ban me for flamewar, im just stooping to his level

>>376185959
>no u
lel btfo

>>376181529
>>376181810
>be running forward on track
>see what happens if I move the stick back
>the game glitches the fuck out and I die by falling through the floor
Yeah man totally spontaneous non scripted gameplay.

>>376186607
Only a dumb fucking nigger like you would defend these shitty fucking games. You gonna chimp out? Chimp out. Tell me all about how great Sonic Adventure is as you rub your Sonic plushie all over your nigger dick, you stupid fucking ape. Fuck you. You are the cancer. Kill yourself, you stupid nigger. Rid the world of your tastelessness and dumb nigger culture once and for all.

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>>376185439
>likes cinematic "platforming"
>calls others nu-/v/
Hmmmmmmmm

>>376178395
Because Sonic Adventure was legitimately bad. I'm assuming that Adventure 2 was them trying to salvage the adventure series.

>>376186790
Only a dumb fucking nigger like you wouldn't like these games. You gonna chimp out? Chimp out. Tell me all about how bad Sonic Adventure is as you rub your Sonic plushie all over your nigger dick you stupid fucking ape. Fuck you. You are the cancer. Kill yourself, you stupid nigger. Rid the world of your tastelessness you and dumb nigger culture once and for all you evil nigger.

which is worse RE fags or Sonic fags in terms of not being able decide what game they want?

>>376187237
LE ADVENTURE IS DA BEST SONIC XDD

I SURE LOVE NIGGERS AND SCRIPTED SEQUENCES AND NIGGERS AND DUMB BULLSHIT AND NIGGERS AND SHITTY CUTSCENES AND NIGGERS AND NIGGERS AND NIGGERS AND NIGGERS AND NIGGERS AND NIGGERS

>>376187329
Are people still pretending RE7 is a return to form? Gross.

>>376187481
All jokes aside, I'm willing to bet actual money you're actually black. Fucking retarded ass delusional nigger monkey. I hate your kind you black bastard. You're all evil pieces of shits. No wonder you can't like Sonic Adventure, it simply isn't for people like you. As a matter of fact, it's made for people who detest your kind.

>>376187897
>Knuckles was literally designed for niggers
Nah. You're the nigger here. Go back to rapping Pumpkin Hill to your friends, you stupid fucking monkey. OOH OOH AHH AHH UNLIKE SONIC I DONT CHUCKLE

>>376181893
My nigger

Everything in that game except some dropped frames is perfect. Its so elegant in everything it does and its stylistic as fuck. I should really hook up my 360 and just play some levels again

>>376188257
I hope youre just talking shit about knuckles levels music in the adventure games. His voice and character were great, but i too hated the jungle beats they associated him with

>>376188257
Are you that detached from reality that you don't realize that you're literally a fucking black nigger monkey? Look down at your fucking hands, look at a fucking mirror you black bastard. You're a nigger that's chimping the fuck out rn because he's furiated he can't enjoy Sonic Adventure simply because he's fucking black. Sorry you can't handle reality bub

>>376188354
>stylish and elegant
>most of the game is fucking slog

>>376189285
To you? Or to me?

>>376189184
NIGGER ALERT
NIGGER ALERT
TIME TO SUCK NIGGER COCK AND PLAY SONIC ADVENTURE
ALL NIGGERS UNITE

>>376188354
Good taste fampai. Yeah, Unleashed is actually a really good polished game. I'd say it's the last Sonic where ST put their all

>>376189374
NIGGER ALERT
NIGGER ALERT
TIME TO SUCK NIGGER COCK AND HATE SONIC ADVENTURE
ALL NIGGERS UNITE

I fucking hate /v/. Yall fucks go 100 posts without shitting up the thread

>>376189505
Back when the game was new, I would spend hours just looking for things to collect, admiring the hubs, or doing requests for the NPCs. I've never played a game with a more picturesque look or powerful atmosphere. I loved how in the day you just blasted through everything and then at night, you got a more personal, intimate connection with the country you were in. Going through the alleys of Spagonia, the town of Shamar, the rooftops of Empire City and so on. And they really went all out with the small details and went crazy with the lighting at night, fuck man it was gorgeous

>>376189808
I always knew Unleashed was a fucking fantastic game, but you just make me wanna play it even more now. It's a shame I never did but when I eventually do, it'll be all the more sweeter. Respect though, for having good taste.

>>376190170
I used to work in a marketing firm, so I may be making the game sound more succulent than it perhaps is...but that's how I really feel. Fuck the haters. I love Sonic Unleashed and I know you will too when you get to it. Try to play it on 360/Xbone (when it becomes BC that is) rather than PS3 though if you can, as the frame rate is way more jumpy and all over the place

>>376188354
I'd like Unleashed if the Werehog levels weren't so much fucking longer than the day levels and if the dumb medals weren't mandatory. Like what kind of shit is that? It'd be like if the emeralds we're fucking mandatory.

>>376190468
I know new players rarely have the aptitude to see the most a game can offer, but the hotdog challenges really show that the Werehog levels are equal in length to the Hedgehog levels, specifically the time trials. Some ask that you beat it in 3-5 minutes. The medals are a point of contention, but to me it was just part of the adventure you know? A call back to the early 3D days, where you needed enough things to continue? Another reason to thoroughly comb through a level? Things like that. But clearly, the idea does not sit well with the average Sonic fan and I'm sorry for that.

>>376178395
Did you honestly just say "fuck the haters"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y-q2BdBA-Q

>>376190936
I wouldn't mind the medals as much if they were optional, I think. The fact that the game basically says "Fuck you. You're getting these or else have fun playing the level again" just irritates me. The game should be enticing me to want to get the medals on my own instead of making me feel like I have no choice.

I probably would've enjoyed the Werehog levels more if they focused more on the puzzles and platforming rather than "DUH NUH NUH NUH NUH NUH NUH NUH". The pacing makes the daytime levels feel like premature ejaculation.

Adventurefags have to be about the most retarded fanbase on /v/.

>>376191380
Hm, well I fail to see how the game would entice you to look for things to collect if you don't feel like looking for them to begin with. The message they got from that is that exploration and looking for things suck, just toss some red rings in randomly so they're there...I guess?

Now I never said the Werehog levels are perfect. I too would have preferred if they focused more on the insanity of the situation with the stretchy arms and went all out like you see in some cutscenes. But it was a first iteration thing (meaning it could have been improved on had the design/concept been kept), the combat at higher levels was flashy and high energy enough, and played more than well enough for what it is. You could already see stark improvements in the DLC if you played that, a lot of the Werehog DLC levels are just great, deciding more on the platforming side of things while buffing up the enemies for more intense encounters. Again, not perfect, but in just a few months later with new DLC packs you could see a big update on the idea.

>>376191734
Elaborate, retard.

>>376178395
Sonic is gonna trip on his arm

>>376191840
They aggressively defend broken games that are 2/3rds unfun shit like treasure hunting and the rest of it is script heavy running sequences. Also they type like middle schoolers as seen in the OP.

>>376192040
We aggressively defend because the other sides, Classicists and Modern Faggots have shitted up /v/ with their retarded opinions, pretending as if they're fact, I'm simply stooping to your level. Also the 2/3rds unfun shit is a fucking overblown meme. That shit was never true and it just goes to show how much people dick ride e celebs and how little of a actual opinion they have themselves.

>>376192351
You aggressively defend it because you're mentally children that can't defend objective analysis, much less just someone's opinions.

>>376178395
FOLLOW ME
O
L
L
O
W

M
E

>>376192351
I enjoy all the gameplay but what really sucks is when the Sonic/Shadow stages are bad. Pyramid Cave, Sky Rail, Crazy Gadget, and Final Chase are fucking awful, to the point where other characters have better levels than those. Its for reasons like this and the general lack of polish and clipping problems that the Adventure era is my least favorite in Sonic.

>>376192452
*that can't deal with objective analysis
Got this post mixed up with another thread in my head.

>>376192452
But the thing is. it isn't objective analysis. The fact that you call it that shows that YOU'RE mentally children. The problem is, you all go into sonic games with your preconceived notions and get surprised when the game doesn't fall under your delusional way of thinking.

>>376192525
Pyramid Cave isn't really that bad except for those long ass hallways where you have to make those specific as fuck jumps to get through those rings.

>>376192803
>no u
Really proving me wrong, huh.
It's objective that two-thirds of the Adventure games do not belong in them.
Saying the camera is poorly implemented? Objective.
Saying the controls are wonky in SA1? Objective.
Saying SA1 is glitchy? Objective.

>>376192958
Nice job proving to me you didn't even read my post dick head. Also things you listed are either untrue or subjective.
>two-thirds of the Adventure games do not belong in them.
Who the FUCK are you and why do you think you can dictate what can and can't be in a Sonic game?
>camera is poorly implemented
You can adjust it with the triggers and if you aren't a absolute retard you shouldn't have a problem with it for the most part
>controls are wonky in SA1
Straight up not true. You're just shitposting at this point
>SA1 is glitchy
If you play the game properly you shouldn't have any problems for the most part.

>>376193308
>Also things you listed are either untrue or subjective
>this denial
>none of the alternative playstyle have anything to do with what Sonic is or is about
>Big especially was only put in to push a fishing pole controller
>SA2 alt playstyles are also downgrades objectively
You can't even pan the camera up, retard, and it collides with everything and makes any level indoors a pain in the ass.
>t-the controls aren't wonky, i-it's not true
Floaty movement says otherwise.
>if you just play so that it doesn't manage to glitch, it doesn't have glitches!
If I manage to play through 06 without it glitching out, is it glitchless? Are they still not issues the game has? Fucking inbred mongoloid.
>ywn be this assblasted

>>376193674
You're a delusional nitpicking retard going on a shitposting spree that has to fill his daily quota of shit talking the Adventure games. Just like almost everyone else on /v/. I'm not taking you or your complaints serious.

>If I manage to play through 06 without it glitching out, is it glitchless?

We're not talking about 06 though, you deformed autistic bastard.

>>376182651

>Steve Urkel was all the hedgehogs
>even the girl

>>376193872
Not a single argument in this entire post.
>ur just delusional
>ur just shitposting
>ur just on the bandwagon
>pure deflection at the end
>doesn't understand what a comparison is
>doesn't understand that I used his logic on a different example to show how flawed that logic is
Do you by chance have actual autism or aspergers? I'd rather not pick on a real retard.

>>376194026
>Claims I don't have an argument yet the entire time never had one himself, simply is shitposting and spouting overblown memes

Listen bud, I think now's the time to let us all know if you're actually mentally retarded or something, because then I won't be as harsh and actually recommend that you get off of /v/ and get some actual help.

>>376178395

because this style was garbage

>>376194217
>no u
>if I pretend it doesn't exist, then it doesn't
Yeah, you're an aspergers child. btfo btw

>>376178395
Because they don't have the talent to make another pure 3D platformer that stands up on its own.
They need gimmicks to cover up the mediocre product beneath.

>>376194313
says the dude who quite possibly could be mentally retarded and doesn't know it yet. but talking to a complete stranger on /v/ reveals it. I say less though. You got smoked and BTFO btw

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>>376181770

>Sega doesn't seem to actually care about the quality of Sonic games and how games CONTINUOUSLY end up bad.

Boom was made by BigRedButton (NaughtyDog rejects) as the developers of the game not SEGA; Sonic 06 was ruined by poor leadership, time constraints to sell for the 15th Anniversary and trying to develop for multiple consoles (X360, PS3 and the Wii) in that short development time. The only truly bad Sonic games in the series are Shadow the Hedgehog, 06, Boom and Lost World.

>>376194469
>more no u
How to tell someone got completely decimated in an argument. Make sure to let your nurse give you your medicine next time.

>>376194495
Shadow is decent if played neutral. 06-Boom-Lost World; all abysmal however

>>376178395
Because the style is grossly not Sonic. Even SA2 went with corridors for the Speed stages.

>>376194495
no, just boom, 06, and chronicles.

>>376179963
There's a reason classic sonic games auto-killed you at 10 minutes, it's too long for a sonic game

Just look at Sonic Unleashed, the werehog segments could sometimes take anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes and it was a nightmare

>>376178395
Only if they fuck off with
>Iizuka
>All the filler gimmick non Sonic gameplay shit
>Go full S3&K style with characters (Sonic gameplay with ~1 unique move difference
>Iizuka
>Unleashed tier scope/setting, none of this "leBaldyMcNoseHair xDDDD" shit
>Iizuka
>Actually polish the fucking game and TAKE YOUR FUCKING TIME SEGA
>Iizuka
Then it will be good. First and foremost, remove Iizuka first before anything.

>>376189021
I hated Knuckles' voice in SA1 and 2. He sounds like someone's dad. I always pictured him having a voice like Future Trunks from Dragon Ball, he never struck me as all that serious (SA2) or tough (the gravelly voice they give him these days) a character in S3K. If anything he seems like a typical sneaky bastard archetype in Sonic 3.

>>376194559
>the autistic bastard actually thinks we had a argument when I completely nullified everything he said
Take your medicine man.

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>>376194734
So Sonic 3 and Sonic Unleashed, the best games in the series, are the best games because Iizuka had little to no influence on them. At last I truly see

>>376194785
>nullified nothing
>just returned my insults to me but with worse delivery
If you aren't mentally retarded then this level of denial should classified as a mental disorder.

I'm pretty sure Sonic Adventure was just a Dreamcast tech demo, in which they stuck a bunch of half-finished game prototypes into one package; fishing, a rail shooter, and what they managed to come up with for a sonic game

Because it definitely feels like a half finished mess

>>376194734
Iizuka's good only when he's not in charge. Someone bring Yuji Naka back for fucks sake

>>376194632
Shadow's gotten some odd lift, but I'd basically peg everything from 2003 up to Chronicles to have been Sonic's truly shit age, with SA2 being the harbinger of doom.

That said, Sonic had a pretty stellar line up going on the GBA and DS otherwise.

>>376194734
>Unleashed tier scope/setting, none of this "leBaldyMcNoseHair xDDDD" shit

You know, now that Ian Flynn's not up to anything Sonic related, it may not be a bad time to pressure SEGA heavily to get rid of the two fucks they have writing the stories. It'd kill that style of humor at least.

I really like the Adventure style of gameplay, but I don't think Adventure 1 and 2 are particularly good games

If they could go all out and make a proper game in the same style, I would probably like it more than the current 3D sonics

>>376194862
>nullified literally everything he said
>literally
>everything
>tries to deny it, ends up looking even more pathetic than he already does
Just stop it already, this is so sad honestly. It's like I'm unwillingly bullying a retarded kid. It's easy as fuck to do but that doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.

>>376178395
Generations is my favorite sonic game so Forces seems to be exactly what I want. That shit is speedrun heaven.

>>376195148
>nullified literally nothing I said
>literally
>nothing
>tries to deny it, ends up looking even more pathetic than he already does
Just stop it already, this is so sad honestly. It's like I'm unwillingly bullying a retarded kid. It's easy as fuck to do but that doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.

>>376195165

As someone who fucking loved Generations, Forces's aesthetic, reuse of classic sonic and the inane need to slap a 3rd most likely filler-esq gameplay style on top of it completely turns me off the whole thing

>>376179921
>the music

Holy shit you couldn't be more wrong.
Sonic Heroes "Grand Metropolis" Music: http://youtu.be/xZ-OqqR3P5U

educate thine self

>>376194495
Sonic Heroes was when I stopped paying much attention to Sonic, the whole thing felt wrong. I remember wondering why the controls were so fucked up when SA2 had a pretty solid feel to it. The whole series is a damn shame because it does have really great things about it. The art design for the levels, bosses and the original Mega Drive characters are awesome, along with the music. Would be fucking amazing if a good dev team got a chance to work some magic on it. Sumo Digital could probably make a wicked Sonic game (the guys that made Sega All-Stars Racing)

>>376194729
The only level that takes more than 10 minutes in heroes is the last one. Get gud

>>376195243
>resorts to copying me because his pea-brain can't come up with a proper retort

B T F O
T
F
O

>>376195690
>resorts to copying me because his pea-brain can't come up with a proper retort
B T F O
T
F
O

>>376195280
Classic sonic is fine as long as the levels hold up, but yeah, I really hope the third playstyle isn't stupid bullshit. I also hope we get a few more levels for each style than Gen, at least

>>376195742
>resorts to copying me because his pea-brain can't come up with a proper retort
B T F O
T
F
O

>>376195812
>resorts to copying me because his pea-brain can't come up with a proper retort
B T F O
T
F
O

>>376195847
>resorts to copying me because his pea-brain can't come up with a proper retort
B T F O
T
F
O

>>376195919
>resorts to copying me because his pea-brain can't come up with a proper retort
B T F O
T
F
O

>>376178395
>>376179702
Because at their height they're mediocre games.

The best part of the Adventure games is the Chao Gardens.

This thread is the most pathetic thing I've seen all week

And I work at a small claims court house

>>376195409

>Sonic Heroes is a problem
>The whole series is a damn shame

That's a leap of logic my friend. A bad experience with Sonic Heroes (i.e issue on control) doesn't translate over the entire series. As you said it yourself, the Mega-Drive/Genesis games are excellent titles of the franchise.

>>376194632

>chronicles

I forgot about that one. With good reason.

I just want the cheesy rock back

Make the game any sort of style, just bring back the cheesy rock. Heck, I even played through Secret Rings because of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKAf6ljJmhQ

Its to bad Ohtani lost his edge, but I saw it coming since 2011.

>>376196303
It annoys the fuck outta me when people call Sonic music cheesy. You know what's cheesy? Coming of age movies from the early 2000's. You know what's cheesy? Nickelodoen and Disney channel sitcoms.
SONIC MUSIC ISN'T FUCKING CHEESY REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>376196620

DINO

IT'S A JUNGLE

>>376196620
Anything that isn't dreary is cheesy according to a lot of people. Personally I think they are insecure about their music taste so they have to put up a defense mechanism of only liking things 'ironically', since their taste is so impeccable thus they could never enjoy something that has some genuine enthusiasm behind it.

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>>376196002

Get good.

TAS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJrbxgxOSIs

Non-TAS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOK140P23jE

The Yakuza team needs to make a Sonic RPG. Move at Kazuma speed but fly down the street if you press R2.

>>376197070
I never really understood what Sonic was really trying to do with his thing he did on character select/completing a stage.

>>376197070
Being a janky third person platformer with unintentional short cuts doesn't make the game good.

Maybe they should have made the stages so that building speed and using said speed to reach new platforms had a benefit, like in the 2D sonics.

>>376197070
Making the spin dash spammable was one of the worst mistakes they did in SA1. Thank god they fixed it in SA2

>>376197248
what the fuck? why would they have the yakuza team make a sonic rpg when sega owns atlus, who knows nothing but rpgs?

imagine a persona game with a sonic skin

>>376199030
Would I be able to romance Tails?

>>376199163
No way, thats gay. Just try to think of 21 characters for all the arcanas though

Sonic Team - Fool
Tails - Magician
Knuckles - Emperor or Strength
Amy - Lovers
Shadow - Death
Rogue - Devil
Cream - Hierophant
Blaze - Empress
Omega - Tower
Vector - Justice
Espio - Hermit
Charmy - Sun
Chao - Fortune
Eggman - Judgment
Silver - Hanged

Thats off the top of my head

Just slap on p5s battle system. Make the dungeons more reliant on platforming challenges

Tell me this wouldnt be the coolest game ever?

OP here, I'm gonna go sleep. Please let the thread hit 400+ replies please.

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>>376198482

>Maybe they should have made the stages so that building speed and using said speed to reach new platforms had a benefit, like in the 2D sonics.
>using game mechanics (like the spindash) to reach the other platforms apart/seperate from main route is somehow not the same in the Adventure games

OK.

>janky third person platformer

How "janky" the game can be depends upon the quality of the player, not the game. Also, play the 2D fangames if you like 'linear experiences' more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUudMUzBf3E

>>376198706

The spindash was spammable since Sonic 2. Everyone used the spindash to instantly gain speed and momentum instead of using the terrain/level-design to build it up (i.e Sonic 1).

>>376199540
there's no way that it would have a bearable storyline

>>376199776
I feel like Sonic Unleasheds plot would overall work best, since its giant in scope and involves gods. Even if they don't go for a super deep story, it could still be full of fun slice of life events like persona 4, where we could finally see the characters interact with each other again

>>376199620
It's not the same because the spin dash in the 2D Sonic games isn't all that strong, getting some decent speed off of a ramp will always result in more speed than spamming the spin dash. Also the 2D games are more open than the 3D Sonic stages.

You're also ignoring the other charecters, which make up like 70% of the playtime of Sonic Adventure, and most of them are not fun at all to play.

None of them were actually good.

>>376190468
>he hasn't played Generations

>>376200785
Everyone has played it, but

day unleashed > modern generations

>>376200970
You missed the point
All the emeralds are mandatory in Generations

>>376201153
He means emeralds, as in the original games with the garbage ass special stages

>>376201210
But the discussion's about 3d games anon

>>376182651
Sonic's proportions are fucked behind that guitar

>>376201359
I'm pretty sure he was referring to how the genesis games handled the emeralds, but maybe youre right

Honestly, i dont like having to go for emeralds because they are always locked behind the most ball busting gameplay. I'd rather just get them in a cutscene related to the plot and continue on

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>bought SA2 on steam because nostalgia
>mfw realizing it's fucking dogshit

>best games just have Sonic playing like Sonic and additional characters also playing like Sonic
>but Sonic Team continues to throw in a million different shit playstyles
STOP
They just have to do one thing and do it right. Make Sonic.

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>>376185290
Jesus Christ get over yourself.

Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are mediocre AT BEST, especially looking back. Even ignoring the wonderful Sonic/Shadow "gameplay," everything else doesn't hold up. Camera, glitches, and finicky controls just suck.

Just admit your favorite game ever isn't that great. Admit to REALITY.

>>376178395
because it was a cringe fest that spawned autism at its worst.

I just read through every reply.

>nigger
>nigger
>nigger

What a shit thread. Sonic fans are the worst.

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>>376202563

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>>376179702
>it proves to be Sonic's best outings.

>>376202632
>>376202563
>triggered by nigger
>le sigh,,,this is why humanity is doomed ///_-

Id say were in tumblr right now

It's so fucking transparent when someone only likes some shitty thing because they played it as a kid. I'm sick of it.

>>376202807
Why did you quote >>376202632
This is /v/, get used to it, nigger.

>>376194957
Yuji Naka only goes places and has fun with his wife's sons nowadays. He probably hasn't made a game after the Wii U and 3DS ports of Rodea The Sky Soldier fucked up, completely screwing over the original Wii version he developed.

>>376202489
>sonic is le cringe
>le autism XD haha
>sonic is le autism cringe XD

You know where you belong

>>376202789
Anyone who dislikes this game has shit taste.

The barrel part is an example of genuine bad game design though.

>>376203347
But it's not. Jumping works on every one and shows it can be moved in general, there's a clear change in how Sonic looks and controls when on it, and you've already used up and down multiple times before.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Do Sonic Unleashed again, but replace the Werehog with Knuckles. Keep the brawler combat, just don't make it Sonic.

Take the 3D collectathon gameplay Knuckles used to have and give that to Tails.

Boom, Sonic Adventure 3.

>>376203489
>and you've already used up and down multiple times before.
no you haven't, only when spindashing which isn't possible to do while on a barrel. you can't even duck while on it. most kids will just try bruteforcing it by jumping and fail the timing, especially when tails fucks you over

>>376203489
Up and down never moved geometry anywhere else in the game and those things are uncontroversially shit design.

>>376203548
Naw, what makes the werehog fun (the stretchy limbs) would be lost on knuckles. If he were to come back, they should also use the DLC as a basic design document, with more focus on platforming and all that

>>376183361
who is this cutie? What show?

>>376203695
It's possible to design good brawler combat without stretchy limbs, though.

I'm just saying that should be the division of gameplay for a new adventure game: sonic / brawler / collectathon.

The knuckles levels were always the second-best in the adventure games anyway, and they never did figure out how to make tails not suck to play as. Give him the collection mechanic, let Knuckles punch shit.

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Would this game have been good if it wasn't broken

>>376203601
Rolling in general, Hydrocity Zone on the bars underwater and controlling Tails in the Marble Garden Zone boss. Not being able to duck on it is exactly what I'm talking about and should be a clear sign something is different, but if you just stick to jumping it's not hard, I did it often. Tails is just Tails, he can make it easier or harder and you can compensate for him with timing.
>>376203610
It's a specific object, many of those have been moved by how you move already, and momentum shouldn't be a new concept. Something like this should also not seem so radical that you can't put two and two together from what you've done already.

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>>376178395
>Fuck the haters, they never truly liked Sonic to begin with anyways.
kek. keep crying white boi

>>376203940
I'll grant you the bars in Hydrocity, I played S&T though so I had 2P controlling me for the Marble Garden fight.

The other issue, though, is that there isn't any indication that it should work. Like, pressing up and down should move you up and down in situations where Sonic would reasonably be in control (gripping a bar, flying in the air).

Why should it move a platform? What would make the player think "I should reasonably be able to swing this platform around while standing on it"?

It doesn't help that there's no real feedback that it's working most of the time since the damn things are always moving when you're on them.

i dont know why they went away from this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLSzQpuiYnM and went for a more linear level design philosophy instead

>>376204110
It starts moving when you get on it. That alone means you have some effect on it. It starts going up and down more the moment you start doing it too. There's already platforms you move by running on Marble Garden, and those have no reason to take off. Also it kinda has arrows on it.

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>>376203862
I know, but the stretchy arms is what made a lot of the moves sonic could do, as well as general platform challenges, look cool. Thats the thing with sonic unleashed, everything is either designed to be hyper cool or hyper beautiful, sometimes you get fusion of both. I also think its a pretty cool design. I do like the tails idea though, and they could easily reuse night levels with rearrangements and just scatter things for tails to find, with the wind howling and shit. Thats what I would like to see most with the hedgehog engine. It debuted at excelling in lighting and it still looks great, but i wish the hedgehog engine 2 pushed for weather effects. Its the only thing bold enough that would be able to label itself as a sonic unleashed 2, being even more massive than the first one

>sonic: day stages, designed just like unleashed
>knuckles: night stages, designed like werehog stages with adjustments
>tails: variable time of day, lots of weather effects that impact the flying, collecting

Imagine that, going through a different part of adabat with a tropical storm with a layer of snow or holoska during a blizzard

>>376178395
Sonic games suck and have always sucked

>>376203489
Fuck no dude, the barrel doesn't even react unless you jump on it first, and then hit up and down. It's almost designed to be intentionally confusing for players.

I really liked Sonic Heroes

>>376204538
No, it reacts the moment you land on it.

>>376178395

Adventure is just a 2 hour long mediocre Sonic game pumped up to 8 hours with gameplay nobody in the right mind would play if Sonic's Story wasn't in it.

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>>376178395
I fully agree. Even as a kid when the game just came out and my previous console was the fucking GAMEGEAR I had no troubles with this game's controls and camera, I was literally 12, IT WAS MY FIRST FULL 3D EXPERIENCE, the first time I touched an analog stick, and yet I had no problems mastering the game and pulling of the trickiest shit, while shitty professional normalfags were all saying that Sonic like that """"doesn't' work""""
As the fuck if.
And then Sega fucking believe them and after SA2, all the games are on fucking rails.

I fucking hate this mentally retarded industry.

>>376204117

It is a beta but that camera looks rubbish. If I had to take a guess by making the levels linear they could set cues to make sure the camera angle is good.

Also it means they could have those flashy setpieces like the Whale and the Loops.

Because Adventure 2 was so much better and it didn't make you do chores

>>376204925
no, this level was modded into the game

sonic adventure just has a piss poor camera

>>376204979
SA2's problem is that Sonic/Shadow gameplay was the minority.
I would have been perfect if the whole game was just them.

>>376204728
If you allow it to stop moving and you hit up and down it won't react, it needs momentum from Sonic's initial jump to be moveable.

>>376204328
t. Born in the 90s.

>>376205047
The Sonic and Shadow gameplay is very mediocre. There isn't any decent platforming, the stages are linear, and the homing attacks make all enemies a joke.

>>376179958
>What is hyperbole

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>>376203940
You're thinking about this on a much more logical level missed on youth who plays Carnival Night Zone for their first time. The bars in HZ immediately plays a distinct animation confirming your action, as with Tails in MGZ (Sonic's feet move with your inputs).

The barrel doesn't have a distinct or immediate way of choreographing your inputs, it just very slowly bobs up or down.
All this while there are barrels in the same stage moving on their own, playing the same animation while standing on them but do not respond to directional inputs.
A simple color swap of the movable barrels would make things less confusing but not completely redeem the design flaws.
[/autism]

>>376203872
No, it was incredibly derivative of the first Sonic Adventure. The entire first level was Emerald Coast, and they recycled the Egg Viper boss fight wholesale.

>>376205395
You missed the point of their gameplay.

>>376203872
Anyone else find sonic 06 to be bad but still unironically enjoy it as well? Not as in, "XD look at all the shit break haha just like game grumps!" but just playing it in chunks every now and then?

>>376205265
And you have no reason and would have to be trying hard for that to happen.
>>376205452
Funny you say that when before people have insisted that it's badly designed mainly from a logical standpoint and they were the ones looking at it when older, when I and many other kids back then didn't have an issue. Not like there's much there to try and you've been using momentum all the way through already. The barrel's movement itself is very distinctive and (could even be compared to the swings on Angel Island but vertical), and they're all found in places where there's platforms above and below, or a wall right next to it, perfect for noticing the height difference. I don't remember any other barrels that look and act the same when you jump on them but don't also respond to inputs either, if they move on their own that would be pretty obvious even to a kid since it would just keep moving regardless of you landing on it.

>>376205643
That it wasn't very good?

>>376205834
No, that's fucking retarded. The logical thing to do on the barrels is to continue jumping in a hope that your jumps will add momentum to the barrels, which is what happens, but it's not enough to actually make it through the gap. Plus, it's the only barrel that acts that dramatically when you jump on it.

There's no defending it, it's just illogical and people only figured it out through brute force and randomly trying things.

Serious question guys:
I know someone who loves SA2 but hasn't gotten the taste of 2D Sonic yet, and his main reason is that the field of view is so small (for how fast Sonic goes) that it's too hard to see where he's going, and then he dies before he can react to the hazards. Considering people don't talk shit about classic Sonic much, is this kind of difficulty an actual design flaw that people tend to overlook (yet they complain about the camera in the 3d games), or is this just a matter of git gud, or both?

>>376205749
I heard some of the levels are actually pretty interesting.

>>376206345
Thats how my brother, sister, and friends see it. They enjoy the 3D Sonic games but think the 2D ones are garbage because of the camera size

>>376206043
But it is enough to make it, and there are multiple barrels that act like that. You run into a different one at the very start of the first act even, which serves as an example to show you how they work.
>one person's argument is that the barrel is illogical while another says that it only makes sense if you think about it logically
>>376206345
The levels are all designed with that in mind, if he runs into things then he's going faster than he personally should be and has to get used to controlling his own pace while holding forward less. It's git gud.

>>376178395
Because they don't feel like giving the player a 360 degree camera. We can't even get one in Lost World and even that game let us freely move about

>>376206493
>The levels are all designed with that in mind, if he runs into things then he's going faster than he personally should be and has to get used to controlling his own pace while holding forward less. It's git gud.

Interesting.

>>376205835
For you.

>>376206345
It's considered a """""""""""""design flaw""""""""""""" by retarded e-celebs whose first experience with the franchise was hearing the Sonic X theme on YouTube. Back when people actually played video games, Sonic was considered very easy and "just hold right to win" was the biggest meme.

It's a platformer, not a racing game, and the levels were designed with the camera in mind. The only games where it's a legitimate issue are the handheld games.

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>>376206579
I should probably post an example but this is the closest thing I have. An early level, but notice when the enemies show up, and more importantly when the enemies don't. Everyone play Sonic Advance 2.

>>376178395
Classic fag here.

I liked adventure back in the day.

If you ask me today, I would say it's still decent to play, but normies would hate the camera.

Listen here: sonic team won't bring back adventure games, just like they never really bringed back classic gameplay.

If we have now Mania it is because of sonic retro.

Sonic team is just a bunch of losers.

>>376206960
Still me, I want to add: fire Izuka ffs

How long can Sonic go on you guys think? He sells terrible on nintendo, but xbox and playstation owners will keep the series going. But every time you see someone complain and cry on the internet, the next game goes on to sell over a million and get reprints and all that. Because of this i always had a hard time gauging where the series notoriety and popularity is.

At Segas current point, this is weird to say, but they could carry on their business without Sonic and it would only be a small hit to them.

>>376206493
Holding up or down on the barrel with no real visible indicator that that's what you're supposed to do makes it bad game design. Only if you're persistent with your directional pushes will it become clear, but getting to that conclusion requires illogical thought processes as no other object in the game requires button presses to manipulate their momentum.

>>376206345
The problem now is morons think that "SONIC MUST GO FAST GUYS" and end up getting hurt by silly things. It's like someone calling Rocket Knight Adventure bad because they can't spam rocket charges to get through levels without getting hurt in the process.

That and people seem to not understand that rolling makes you pretty safe in 90% of situations. Granted, marbel garden is a shithole when it comes to hard to dodge obstacles. Also just play as Knuckles, he moves slower.

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>>376207252
Once he goes pachinko, he'll be on the brink o'.

>>376207252
Sega has outright said that Sonic always sells better on Nintendo, this past generation was an outlier because of how terrible the Wii U as a whole was. Mania and Forces probably won't follow that because of how new the Switch is, although I can see Forces selling second-most on Switch after PS4 depending on how much the holiday season spikes Switch sales.

>>376207474
>no other object in the game requires button presses to manipulate their momentum
Uh, Sonic? There are so many other instances of momentum that I could probably find one exactly the same, but it doesn't matter, the entire game is about using momentum in different situations from the word go, if you decide to disregard that for some reason when faced with one new thing among many others, then that's your issue. And again, you see a difference right away if you press it and then watch the height for changes, which you obviously would be.

>>376203489
Jumping is not enough, you need to press up and down. You don't need to do that on any other barrel in the level.

8-year-old me didn't have a problem with the barrel because I remembered you needed to use up and down to beat the Marble Garden boss so I just tried using up and down.

I can see how it's considered bad design, but to be honest most of the complaints are from adults who overanalyze it in hindsight.

>>376207945
>Uh, Sonic?

Sonic is not an object, he's the player character.

>There are so many other instances of momentum that I could probably find one exactly the same

You don't use Sonic's momentum on the barrel. You jump on it to get it moving, then you use up and down to accelerate the barrels momentum further. There's no other point in the game were pushing up or down will increase your momentum up and down.

This, combined with the fact that the barrel does increase its momentum with just jumping is also incredibly misleading. The vast majority of players rightly assumed that all you had to do was jump on the barrel until you're able to get through, but this doesn't work.

>>376208779
I'm pretty sure I just spammed a bubble shield jump as a kid to get through it. Really though, it's shit design and horrid conveyance to the player as what to do. Not that it's impossible to figure out, but there's no real logical way to come to that conclusion without mindless trial and error.

There's a reason why multiple videos like this exist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmUWOGP4xn8

>>376208490
Jumping can work, it just requires you to time it right each time. The other barrels are easy mode to introduce the concept.

>>376208993
>Jumping can work

No, it cannot.

>>376208990
Sonic still counts, and otherwise refer to the rest of the comment about momentum in general.
>You don't use Sonic's momentum on the barrel
Yes you do, by landing on it to start it moving, then you further that momentum. Momentum is present everywhere, you're clearly looking at this situation through blinkers to try and prove your point because you couldn't immediately get through and froze up, especially when you only have the directions and jumping to get past it.
>>376209180
I never once had a problem with this barrel as a kid and I mainly used the jumping method because it was more fun. Either there's a path that avoids it and I somehow took that path every single time I played the game (which was many many times both back then and later), or jumping works, with patience and timing.

>>376208990
Also while we're posting videos I found this and got reminded of those platforms that float down when you stand on them and float up when you jump off, and there's a very clear difference in Sonic's look and controls between those and the barrels.
https://youtu.be/yXwbN--6udQ?t=240

>>376206876

Sonic Advance 2 is one of the best Sonic games. Very underrated.

It's funny how its animations are like ten times as smooth and enjoyable to look at as mania's. They all transition into eachother so nicely, I can't stand how mania's bounce pads change Sonic into that weird pirhouetting sprite with no transition animation to or from it.

>>376209959
Mania is designed to appeal to the grognards who just want a hypothetical "Sonic the Hedgehog 4 for Sega Saturn" instead of the mobile abortion. Make enough noise and there might be another Advance-style game ten years from now.

Gotta be honest though, even a re-release with a larger screen size would be excellent, would help mitigate Advance 3's bullshit.

>>376209459
>Sonic still counts

Not when the problem consists of moving an object that isn't Sonic.

>Yes you do, by landing on it to start it moving, then you further that momentum.

Dude, HOW does holding up and down on the controller logically further the barrels momentum? Sonic just stands there motionless and the barrel continues to move.

Jumping on the barrel to make it move enough to slip by is the only logical solution, and that doesn't get you far enough. Hell, the fact that the barrel gets close to the edge to make it seem like you can make it is an even more severe example of shit game design, it's intentionally misleading the player down the wrong path with 0 conveyance as to how to complete the problem successfully.

>>376209730
>Also while we're posting videos I found this and got reminded of those platforms that float down when you stand on them and float up when you jump off,

Yeah, those are completely fine and make sense as your means of interacting with them are simply jumping.

Also this video contradicts your point and is really horrid. He says jumping on the barrel does nothing when it's CLEARLY having an effect on it, then it just says hit up and down because you don't have any other options which is completely untrue.

It's as simple as this dude, game makes it look like jumping on the barrel is the solution to making it bounce low enough to make it through, but it's actually impossible to make it through with just jumping.

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>>376209959
I'm not even a big fan of the Advance games (mainly due to the screen size, would love an HD release where that's fixed) but I can't deny that they have my favorite sprites out of all the 2D Sonics. So expressive, smooth, cool, and cute. The backgrounds also have a sharp aesthetic and made good use of the GBAs hardware effects.

>>376210126
>>376210161
How are the Advanced games? I only ever played Advanced 1 and didn't get far into 2. Heard there was a quality drop after 2.

>>376210350
3 was my favorite, mainly because its music is mind fuckingly good and I really liked the level themes and partner gimmick. Unfortunately, it comes at the cost of random spikes, crushers, and a bunch of other unfair shit because of the small screen. 1 is the closest experience to an older Sonic game (and was treated as the unofficial Sonic 4 for a long time, until Mania was announced) and its pretty solid for what it is. 2 focuses on speed and time trials.

That's the nice thing about them, they're all similar enough so you can jump around, but they all provide something new and have very lively sprites and gorgeous soundtracks. Really wish they had a widescreen release so I could enjoy them more, but it's a pretty big deal breaker to me. I'm >>376210161

>>376178395

Agreed, then again I just want more titty bat

>>376206960
>normies

Go away normalfag

>>376210153
And there are several other objects where Sonic's momentum can be used to control them in different ways. Marble Garden is full of them.
>HOW does holding up and down on the controller logically further the barrels momentum?
Gee I dunno, maybe by pressing it and noticing a change in how it moves? The buttons literally being called "Up" and "Down"? For all your talk about logic you're not comprehending something very simple in a limited situation, so I'm obviously wasting my time here and should stop doing so. I think I will.

The guy is very obviously referring to how people who give up on jumping before doing it enough and well enough to get by (like you) see it as not working, aka "this does nothing it's bullshit". If that doesn't work in your eyes, then you have left, right, up and down left as options. That's what logic actually is, if you consider it impossible by just jumping then you try something else, meanwhile people with timing can manage with jumping and people with sense consider up and down.

>>376210350
Partner system is neat but there's no option for solo play. Physics are noticeably worse if you go into them after having played the previous two heavily. Level design is absolutely worse, with horseshit hazard and enemy placements and bottomless pits everywhere. This is one of the very few games where the screen size is a legitimate complaint, and a re-release that gave it a Genesis screen size, let alone adding widescreen on top of that, would make it much better. Having to juggle 20 different character combinations with their own abilities also causes the level design to suffer, but that's not as much of a deal breaker as the screen size.

Have you ever played the Master System games on Game Gear or Sonic 1 on GBA? That's how Advance 3 feels.

>>376210864
Also the top comment on the video you linked.

>Yeah... nope. I disagree with you on the barrel. Through all of the previous games and zones, when have Up ad Down ever played a part in anything whatsoever, aside from that useless "look up and down" function? Those nut-and-screw platform in Sonic 2's Metropolis Zone were controlled by running in place, same as the spinning tops in Marble Garden, where the more you run the higher up it goes. Also Marble Garden has the blue wheel switches that must be activated by spindashing. Going beyond this zone, Lava Reef has the mechanical lifts that also require spindashing. This is the only object in the entire Genesis series of games that is interacted with by pressing up ad down on the d-pad. While it might have been easy for you to figure out, I still argue that the barrel controls were an incredibly obtuse design decision, especially because the barrel DOES respond to jumping momentum.

Really, the argument has already been solved.

>The guy is very obviously referring to how people who give up on jumping before doing it enough and well enough to get by (like you)

It's not possible to do friend, there's not a single video online of this happening because it's not possible to accomplish.

>If that doesn't work in your eyes, then you have left, right, up and down left as options. That's what logic actually is, if you consider it impossible by just jumping then you try something else, meanwhile people with timing can manage with jumping and people with sense consider up and down.

Hold up during the upward swing of the barrel increases its momentum by a tiny percent that's barely noticeable, unless there's immediate feedback to the player they aren't going to do something multiple times in a row. No other object in the Genesis games reacts to you hitting up and down on the D pad like the barrel does.

It's just textbook poor conveyance, which is bad game design. It's a bad mark on an otherwise amazing game

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>>376203781
kamen rider ex-aid

>>376210350
3 is still good, the only issues it really has are some bugs and hitboxes/hurtboxes being off, a very odd change to acceleration and physics that makes movement and the level design feel awkward (not the levels themselves which are really nice to explore with the multiple teams and are still made with the screen size in mind, though they favour pits more which isn't necessarily bad), and it's greatest strength in the unique team combinations giving many different abilities proves to be it's greatest weakness, because many abilities that were standard in 1 and notably 2 (tricks) have to be spread out among the team combos. Also the tag actions can take a little too long to charge making them a bit cumbersome and not as integral to movement as I'd like. Absolutely worth playing though.
Also 2 is my favourite and I've been shilling that like I'm being paid for it recently. Play through all of them (including Sonic Battle) in order.
>>376210585
>1 is the closest experience to an older Sonic game
Honestly, after replaying it a lot I don't consider this true at all. It's too much a standard platformer with limited exploration, natural momentum building areas or areas where you can just show your skill at speed. Even Sonic 1 had much more in that regard, and I'd say Sonic Advance 2 or probably 3 is a bit closer to that, despite all that they bring to the table themselves. 2 has a generally faster pace but it's still got everything where it counts.

>>376211209
>when have Up ad Down ever played a part in anything whatsoever
>>376203940
Was said pretty early.
>the argument has already been solved
Which you keep ignoring like you did that earlier post because you can't deal with missing this solution. Also the increase is not tiny at all and their location purposefully gives you an easy measure if you're observant.

>1991-1994
simple times. broad target demographic
>1999-2009
oddly made narratives of a hedgehog saving the world from machines, demons, and gods. unintentionally strong autistic demographic
>2010-present
incredibly meta. Meme age demographic

I wonder how long the current meme age will last. I mean isn't there a point where things like knuckles memes eventually lose there appeal?

>>376211879
>Rolling in general

Standard Sonic controls do not count, we're talking about a platform that doesn't have immediate player feedback to hitting up and down.

> Hydrocity Zone on the bars underwater

You mean the vertical ones that you can climb up and down on? They also have instant conveyance and are clear to read. Plus, you don't move the object itself, you move Sonic along the object.

>controlling Tails in the Marble Garden Zone boss

You can move in any direction during this fight, which again has instant conveyance and makes sense logically with how the player is familiar with Tail's movement.

You seeing a common theme here? In all of these situations you're controlling a character and there's instant conveyance of what your actions are doing. In the barrel situation the moving is very slow and gradual, and Sonic himself doesn't actually move to convey anything to the player.

This anon was right. >>376205452 , but changing the barrel color wouldn't do much, you'd need to add some sort of instant conveyance that what you're doing is the right solution to the problem. You also should NEED momentum from the initial jump to get the barrel moving, because that's intentionally misleading.

There, you happy? Nothing you're saying is proving to be a logical process with how to tackle this barrel.

>>376212552
>You also should NEED momentum from the initial jump to get the barrel moving, because that's intentionally misleading.


Shouldn't*. Again, the jumping on it to get it moving is part of the problem.

>>376212552
>doesn't have immediate player feedback
It does. Watch the video.
>You also shouldn't NEED momentum from the initial jump
You don't. Watch the video.
There's no point in me continuing if you're going to ignore what I say and the evidence for it when you can move goalposts and pretend you're on the throne of logic for failing to figure out that up and down might be more effective for moving something up and down, as well as ignoring all feedback except that which coincides with your singular view.

>>376178395
>fuck the haters

That's why they don't go back to that style. Because outside of the autistic spergs that grew up with it, people hated it.

>>376213096
>It does. Watch the video.

Negative, it's pretty much impossible to differentiate what's momentum from your jump and what's momentum from you hitting up. If someone doesn't know hitting up is going to give him momentum then his logical assumption will be that hitting up is doing nothing for him.

>You don't. Watch the video.

He jumps on the barrel a lot, then he stops, but the barrels momentum never comes to a complete 100% dead stop, it still holds his momentum from the jumps which allows him to move it slightly with up and down on the D pad. Then tails jumps, which gives him a huge boost to his up and down motions. You cannot go from a dead stand still on the barrel and hit up and down to make it move, I tested this myself on emulator like a month ago when replaying the game. You're just being factually wrong at this point, maybe you should re-watch the video.

>>376214038
>pretty much impossible
Yeah right because it would keep building from only a single jump. Obviously.
>muh logic again
The logical course of action is to try something for more than a second and actually watch for results before saying it doesn't work. I still don't know why I'm bothering with you other than to keep the thread alive.

Also I was referring to the fact that you can walk onto the barrel and it will start moving up and down without you needing to jump onto it. I assumed he did that at some point instead of rewatching and if he didn't then fine I'll take that part back. But you don't have to jump on it to get it started, so you don't need momentum. from a jump to get past.

Also I'd like to mention that in regards to Tails, his flight normally doesn't involve pressing up and down.

>>376215062
>Yeah right because it would keep building from only a single jump. Obviously.

Why would someone hit up and down after only jumping once? How is that a logical thing to do?

>The logical course of action is to try something for more than a second and actually watch for results before saying it doesn't work

>get on barrel
>after minutes of jump realize that that's not working well enough
>barrel comes to a stand still because jumping = bad
>hit directions
>up and down do nothing if the barrel isn't moving.

Also jumping on the barrel looks like it should work, so the logical solution would be to just time your jumps until you make it through which isn't possible

>But you don't have to jump on it to get it started, so you don't need momentum. from a jump to get past.

You're moving goalposts here. No one would walk onto the platform and start hitting up and down within seconds to get it rolling. No other object or platform in the game works in a similar fasion to the barrel, and the barrel gives no real visual indication to pushing up and down. It reacts much more violently to jumping than hitting up and down, which again is part of the problem.

The Tail's point is irrelevant though, he gives instant feedback and isn't an object in the level that Sonic interacts with.

>>376215476
You missed my simple point, so I'll explain it. If you think that the momentum came from jumping onto it, then any further momentum would have to be from a different source, and not be "impossible" at all to differentiate. If jumping didn't seem to be enough, then you would consider a different approach, of which you have four, and two of them don't work off the bat.

That isn't moving goalposts. Your entire argument is based on you thinking right away that jumping onto it is what causes it to start moving, leading to you thinking that only jumps cause momentum shifts. If you don't jump onto it (this barrel is set up so you can walk onto it by the way), then it still starts moving anyway, and you'll notice it slow to a stop like ANY other momentum based object or character. After that, you start it up again and simply apply buttons, like the ones you used in the last level on the floating platforms. Which are essentially the same thing, except they use left and right.

>being able to control Tails makes sense because of how you normally control him
>that's not how you normally control him
>that's irrelevant

>>376212060
It'll die down once forces releases unless the third character is a CaC, then we would have at least two more years until Iizuka breaks down and announces Adventure 3.

>>376216647
> If you think that the momentum came from jumping onto it, then any further momentum would have to be from a different source, and not be "impossible" at all to differentiate. If jumping didn't seem to be enough, then you would consider a different approach, of which you have four, and two of them don't work off the bat.

Except for the fact that jumping gets you really, really far and makes the most sense to do. You were trying to argue that it's possible with jumping alone, but then you dropped that when you realized that wasn't true, now you're arguing that mashing up and down in tandum with your jumps makes sense despite no other platform in the Genesis games using this mechanic.

>Your entire argument is based on you thinking right away that jumping onto it is what causes it to start moving,

It is. Walking and jumping onto it are the same thing, it all boils down to Sonic putting his weight onto the barrel and that allowing him to nudge it up and down. You trying to argue that walking on it and that moving it slightly would lead the player into hitting up and down on the d pad as opposed to jumping, which makes no sense logically as nothing else in the game works in this fashion.

>After that, you start it up again and simply apply buttons,

After that you notice that consecutive jumps move the barrel up and down more and more, leading you to believe that you're doing to correct thing to progress when you're not. It's poor conveyance and game design because it makes players believe that jumping is the correct thing to do, which is not how you get past the barrel.

>like the ones you used in the last level on the floating platforms. Which are essentially the same thing, except they use left and right.

Those are spinning tops which have instant conveyance of Sonic moving on them, the barrel platform has none and Sonic simply spins in the same idle animation he would on any revolving platform.

>>376178395
Because it fucking sucks
3D/Modern Sonic was a mistake

I can't wait for Forces to fail/Mania to succeed so we can get rid of that Modern Piece of Shit once and for all

sonic has never actually been good.

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>>376203347
>The barrel part is an example of genuine bad game design though.
This thing is so overstated holy shit
It's not that big of a deal

Besides what is a great game without great memes?

>>376180057
But it didn't get the physics properly at all
The jump was floaty as all fuck and as soon as you jump your speed completely went away