What exactly made Skyrim such a bad game? The setting? The boring

>>376052121
No, all that is Ok, is not 10/10 but acceptable stuff. The problem is the typical Bethesda fails and bugs AGAIN, mixed with the company actitude: "mods are going to solve everything"

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It drops its RPG elements in an attempt to become more of an action game - dialogue is optional and less complex, stats are less complex and less variable etc., but its action gameplay isn't exceptionally strong.

The games appeal comes from variety of things, groups, people, places, abilities etc., but even in those it fails to have as much variety as its predecessors as I'm sure you've seen in those images comparing Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.

It is utterly mediocre and almost every facet of its creation, there is no one part of Skyrim that you could say is without significant flaws, it does nothing very well (with possibly the sole exception of its music). It fails to be an interesting RPG, it fails to be a satisfying action game, and its graphics, story, writing, NPC AI, physics and world design all leave a lot to be desired. They are functional, but functional isn't really what makes a great game.

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Poor implementation of a great setting (my opinion), world scale, repetiveness, poor storylines/you can be everything at once, time and events/actions in the game world doesn't really progress/matter beyond each questline, and clunky gameplay. After a while it just feels off.

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What made pic related such a good game despite being another Skyrim clone minus everything but combat?

It's a lake when it could have been an ocean. Mods turn it into a sea. People here say its a puddle.

>>376052121
Shit combat.
World felt stagnant as hell. Can't affect the world unless it's specifically scripted. No killing thieves guild for example.
Sick of boring "you are the chosen one" stories.
Jack all roleplaying options other than very rare exceptions.
Can become the leader of every faction with no differences in the game.
Almost every quest has you running into an underground dungeon with mostly the same design and enemies appearing as well as candles and bandits deep inside for some ungodly reason.
Tiny ass cities.
Nothing happens unless it's your character doing it.
Playing as a different race doesn't feel like it changes the game in any meaningful way.

Several of these are fine, it's just when every single one is true that it's pretty fucking sad.

>>376054594
THIS PIC. They fucked up all the great concept art designs.

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>>376054839
This is really well put, anon.

>>376052121
If you don't see what's wrong with it then just enjoy it. The reason people call it terrible is because compared to previous games in the series it drops the ball in a lot of ways but is still a passable game in a vacuum

>>376052121
>What exactly made Skyrim such a bad game?

/v/ is the only place on the internet that believes skyrim is a bad game. don't take the opinions of contrarians so seriously.

>>376052121

Well, for one, crafting is garbage.
Then, the only one wearable ring.
Poor-ass item selection.
Garbage enchanting.
Terrible magic.
No atributes. No class, no special things about the class. No skill/attribute checks.
Shallow as fuck perk system. Skill dont do shit appart from facilitating level-up and perk point allocation.

Look at Fallout 4 - even worse in perk department.

Mate, nearly everything was either mediocre, or terrible or unfinished.

Fallout 4 is even worse, since it took all that bullshit of Skyrim and went extra mile in the wrong direction. And F4 is built on Skyrim to begin with.

The only good thing about both is that they add some worldspace to explore. Thats about it.

>>376054594
This is just sad.
>>376052121
I would not say Skyrim is a bad game. It could have been substantially better if it were not for outdated console capability holding it back. Mods were not as good as they were for oblivion and Morrowind except for the waify department.

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>>376052121
Skyrim is a decent game. People says combat is ass, like morrowind better than this. Skyrim did some points better than oblivion did. Not the greatest rpg of all time like critics said, but its better than most rpgs. Its in the top 10 rpg to me.

>>376052121
It's not a bad game, it's just a worse game than it's predecessors. Which is a shame and frustrating.

Boring/bad/out of place quests.

>>376057756
>skyrim in the top 10 rpgs
>there's people in /v/ that actually believe this

how can you be such a pleb, i might as well leave this board forever now

>>376052121
gameplay isn't fun and it's ugly.

can't stand the "story" either.

>>376052121
The half-assedness and the bad world design that relied on quest markers.
For example, the civil war - a staged quest that culminates in 6-7 actors walking around yelling 'arhhhhhh' whilst 8-9 opposing actors casually die.

There are mods to restore the actual civil war quest (which existed still in game code, just inocplmete and buggy as all hell) Bethesda had this grand idea and started making it, then just sorta gave up.
The whole game is full of things like this, where they had a grand idea, started making it, then gave up and phoned it in.
Fallout 4 is even worse in that regard.

Also casualization of magic and alchemy.

>>376058121
name the best wrpgs without using unplayable 20 year old shits

>>376058736
Why do older games get omitted?

>>376058736
idk wrpgs suck in general
but skyrim definitely isn't at the top 10 rpgs you flaming faggot

>>376052121
i never had a problem with it and didn't even know people actually thought it was a shit game till i actually started lurking in elder scrolls threads. i enjoyed it a lot.

I think you have to be a no-mind to think it's even decent. It's actually worse than most games can manage, because it's an ambitious large-scale shitbag as opposed to a small one.

The game is mostly depressing and boring. The world is the biggest wading pool you've ever encountered, absolutely loaded with filler and disconnected, self contained little points (quests), which mostly suck from what I remember. The open world design here doesn't connect things up, it just ends up being a giant desert of filler.

The combat is just shit from a very incompetent developer. You can spam potions mid combat and let your health pool consist of how many potions are on you. All kinds of stupid design is piled up here, such as the dumb inescapable one-hit-kill animation that can trigger on you if your health is low. Not to mention that absolutely nobody on earth has ever called the combat satisfying or fun.

No saving mechanic, just the typical dickless auto/quicksave shit. This isn't acceptable game design.

The aesthetic of the game absolutely sucks too. Bethesda artists cannot make a single appealing person or place. Oblivion must be one of the worst looking games out there (not to mention Fallout 4).

>>376058889
because some games aged like milk. deus ex aged like vine, but dont say ultima or daggerfall or some shit like that is playable today

>>376057374
Pissed me off to no end that you can't pay NPCs to craft or enchant things for you. You have to learn it yourself or just not use it that run, which is really bullshit in a sandbox.
High tier of crafting would be sort of understandable if you had to have something locked. Witcher 3 does this much better.

>>376058971
Im not a fan of skyrim you faggot, but its better than 20 year old overrated shit like ps:torment

the factions and quests fucking SUCK

everything else minus combat is basically fixable but you cant fix shitting characters and writing

and it follows from that that roleplaying is also shit. even with mods that implement a morrowind class/level up system, you still barely use any skills to do anything besides kill everything

>>376060485
Not him, but at least Torment had an interesting plot and world. Admittedly the gameplay in it was shit, but you shouldn't play Torment for that.
Skyrim put me to sleep, and fuck "YOU are the special cookie dragonborn!!!". Mosts quests were pretty damn short or boring as well.

My problems from biggest to smallest:

Combat is either super clunky or without any feedback at all. There is no in-between.

It has the aesthetics of dirt. Fantasy, to me, should be bright and colorful.

The lore is bloated to high hell for a single player game. As a newcomer, I never know whats going on. It seems like all information is trivial. Nothing seems connected at all.

I hate how much pausing there is.

FFXV was the first "open world" game I actually enjoyed. BOTW was the first open world game that I felt was objectively good. They both still have that "pause to heal" problem though.

>>376054732
Mostly the combat.

It looks better.

Shrines are fun puzzles, not tunnels of enemies. (Not counting combat shrines, which are boring after the first few).

Small, well done story versus massive shitty story.

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>Skyrim
>bad game

It wasn't a perfect game but let's not resort to melodrama, kid

>>376054943
In short

boring generic trash.

For me combat had no impact just swinging weapons over hp sponges and the fact that everything is in a cave.

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>>376060997
so what the fuck are we arguing about? you can like torment, but I dont like 20 year old games (dont like wrpgs at all). I had fun while playing skyrim. Im not todd howard and I'm not shilling it, just people triggering by others opinions. but also best wrpg is oblivion
>"YOU are the special cookie dragonborn!!!"
unironically I liked those parts of skyrim irl I'm just an unsuccessful lazy virgin but being a demi-god legendary hero made me feel good

>>376062748
Play Arx Fatalis and Heroes of Micht and Magic. They are much, much better than Elder Scrolls games.

>>376062748
You just are one though with no effort involved from your character. There is no special training, effort, or events that made you become that. It is just handed to you on a silver platter, which is really fucking boring.
I have no problem with people having fun playing skyrim. It was fun for about 40-60 hours. Calling it a great rpg or even placing it on a best rpg list is something only a consolebaby or someone very young would do.

I think we all know the REAL reason that /v/ hates Skyrim.

No waifus

>>376063292
I didnt played all rpg games, you missed the point. I said "its in the top 10 rpg to me". I only played total 20 wrpg in first place. maybe if I had played gothic 2 I could say "best rpg game is gothic 2"

>>376063813
>no waifus

nigga this game is only played by so many people to this day BECAUSE of the waifu possibilities

it's disgusting really

>>376060485
>better than 20 year old overrated shit like ps:torment

Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

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>>376063813
http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/searchresults/?src_cat=96
Could you be living in a cave?

Wew boy. I've put 600 hours into Skyrim (only ~15 of those could be considered recent), so I clearly don't think it's bad. It really isn't a bad game when you compare it to its peers. However, the problem lays in its potential. Anyone who is an ES fan always gets incredibly hyped for the next entry, and then gets let down by Bethesda's baby-step style of progress/improvement (myself included).
It's SO easy to list off the things that would make the next ES game truly incredible... Which makes it infinitely more frustrating to have them not take those obvious steps.
Frustrating and confusing.

All the things you mentioned in the OP are accurate, but I believe the fundamental flaw is the technology behind the game, not JUST the way it's used.

New fucking engine when?

>>376052121
Its shallow as fuck and way to easy.loved my first 20 hours thought.

>>376064015
>>376064442

Name one cutie in the game, without mods.

>>376058121

>acting like 45% of the plebs around here arent underaged edge lords

Dungeons were bland, the guild quests were ridiculous going from peon to leader in the course of minutes, etc. But I liked the game except for one flaw I could not overlook.

Why is the combat so bad?

Seriously, it is dry as toast. Has any game done first person melee/magic right?

>>376052121
How fucking old are you? How many games have you played? There are so many fucking things wrong with it that you could write a fucking book on it. Massive fucking imbalances in every way(example: Food being useless unless you're exploiting stamina regen). Terrible spell choice and lack of spell crafting makes playing a mage terrible. No ability to cast while having your hands full reduces RPG builds. Being able to make your own spells would at least allow you to obtain a stronger version of spells permanently set at certain power levels, I thought i'd be able to find a streaming elemental spell that actually did good damage at later levels but nope. Enchanting was gutted to fucking death and the loot tables are so fucking boring, i can't fathom how anyone thought this game was a god damned upgrade. These are just a few problems with it.

You would have to be willingly dishonest to claim this game is anywhere near "game of the year" status as an objectively good game. Their genre formula is simply amazing but noone else tries to make any game like it so they can shit out anything and it will still be that amazing fucking formula. Also, these fucking problems have been there this whole fucking time. Bethesda markets towards the 10 yearolds who don't know anybetter and they know for a fact they don't need to fix any balancing issues or problems with the game. If you worked at bethesda and suggested adding more depth or fixing glaring problems with the game as a whole your family would be beaten to death in front of you as your throat is slit before you even get to finish your fucking sentence, thats how much these impossibly passionless fucking robots operate. Push out a shit game quickly for profit. Half ass the DLC so you can work on pushing out another shitfest sooner.

Give this genre and IP to any other developer and they'd do a better job. That formula is all that is needed. Literally noone else has attempted it, its always changed in some way.

The popularity

>>376054330
>dialogue is optional

I wish it were. There are plenty of scenes where all you can control is the camera but all other controls are taken from the player forcing you to listen to people talk without the ability to skip their text.

Its hell because the dialogue is BAD

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>>376064921
>without mods
thats a big implication

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>>376064921
Serena, Aela, Mjoll, Muiri, Lydia, Iona, Jordis, Ysolda, Sylgja, best husbando is Brynjolf

>No RPG elements to speak of, Serana's dialogue is probably the only time you actually get to role play in the game
>Very poor quests, Guild questlines are probably the absolute worst in the series
>Picking races doesn't really matter outside of a few dialogue lines
>Deadric artifacts that aren't Spellbreaker are fucking garbage
>The player is not offered ANY sort of alternatives to the Smithing and Enchanting skills, making them a mandatory part of any character (The College even tells you they enchant shit for people)

Skyrim feels like a rushed game, it plays like a rushed game.

>>376064991
My two staples for first person combat that is satisfying and fun are: Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, and Condemned: Criminal Origins

>>376064921
>Sylgja, Anneke Crag-Jumper, Serana, Lydia, Jordis, Adrianne Avenicci

TES games are always boring. Big, empty worlds with shit-written quests and bugs galore. The PC is intended to become a tankmage ubergod who has maxed out everything. Mainly appreciated for the modders who fill the sandbox with sexy fuckable sloots.

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>There are people put hundreds and even thousands of hours into Skyrim whether it be console version or PC.
>Even with so much time already invested the still keep coming back to play it some more
>You can 100% complete everything in BotW in 50 hours
>After you've done everything there is little reason to keep playing
>Switch gets Skyrim Special Edition
>People will spend more time playing it than BotW

Skyrim>BotW

>>376065429
I'll have to give them a look. After playing so many ES titles, I have a hard time even imagining what engaging first-person melee combat would look like.

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Skyrim wasn't a bad game, /v/ just likes to exaggerate opinions. It was a perfectly above average game that got over hyped by casuals and over hated because it lives in the shadow of Morrowind.

>>376065370
>>376065473

The only one there that isnt a
>literally who
is Lydia and shes ugly as fuck

If these women are waifu material, where are the memes and waifu shitposts?

>>376065967
>time invested is the most important factor when considering the quality of a game
Todd pls

>>376066151
Mjoll would penetrate YOU. Also that AT vampire out in the lumber mill in the middle of nowhere. I'm sure there are a hand full of others.

>>376066161
If Skyrim is so bad, why does have so many people who just can't stop playing it even six years later?

>>376066086
Gaem?

All TES games are unimmersive shit, but Skyrim at least has some playability, better combat system and rewards your exploration.
Best TES game, if only for sex mods.

>>376066269
A dangerous combination of mods and memes.

Never underestimate meme magic, it made Flappy Bird a huge hit

>>376052121
no roleplaying allowed, only a handful of quests give you any choices and most of them don't matter. all the game systems were dumbed down and the major questlines were boring as fuck or stupid.

>>376053664
if werent for mods, this game would go to oblivion in less than a year after dragonborn dlc.

>>376052121

It's the fact that you can be the Leader of the Companions, the Arch-Mage, the Leader of the Dark Brotherhood, be in the Bard's College, be in the Thieves guild, level up all skills so you can be the 'Jack of all Trades'. On top of that none of the quests and storylines were all that interesting.

Remember the quest where you go into the painting? The Dark Brotherhood quest where you kill everyone at the house party? Those were very unique but still short.

I don't remember one quest where it doesn't just come down to 'grab item and give to NPC' or 'kill animal/person'

Post titty mods.

>>376060485
congratulations you just triggered me
now whats the next step of your master plan

>>376066028
Dark Messiah is silly high fantasy weirdness with a (surprisingly) long linear story. Lots of rewards for exploration and it all but requires you to pick a main class (warrior/thief/mage) via skill points with a little bit of class mixing if you feel like it, letting you replay it a couple times (along with some different endings).
I hope you like campy/silly dialogue and voice acting.

Condemned is a weird spoopfest that can actually be pretty suspenseful. There are jumpscares, which I typically tire of, but I didn't find them over used. It's also the best game I've played that is a horror game, but gives you adequate tools to defend yourself without upsetting the balance of feeling vulnerable.

Why Bethesda > Nintendo

>Bethesda looks at modding as an opportunity to make more money
>Nintendo looks at modding as an excuse to sue you even if you only offer a rom patch rather than the rom itself

>>376067756
more like bethesda looks at modding as an excuse for releasing unfinished buggy games

>>376067824

Bugs add to the charm of a Bethesda game in my opionion, except ESO fuck that shit!

>>376067756
>Both of them have no grasp of how to make online multiplayer a thing

>>376054839
Its a river that flows into a mist filled ocean where you can't see the shores.
You soon find warnings about the edges of the lake that read Do you come to the cloud district often?
The mist lifts and you realise that you were in a lake all along.
It feels like a puddle as you constantly reach the edges and are faced with stupid signs.

You train to become the best fisherman in the sea.
But the smallest fishes continue to treat you like you've never fished before.

The lake is attacked by a giant dragon that threatens the stability of everything you've ever known.
The signs remain, nothing changes.

>>376067756
>muh mario and twink link

>>376052121
I did a playthrough and did pretty much everything, then I've tried starting another playthrough multiple times and just find it boring and stop.im not sure what it is.

>>376067538
Relax anon, why dont you take a seat and discuss with me about "what can change the nature of a man?" I like ps:torment too, I'm just shitposting

>>376052121
a lack of enemy variety is what killed it for me

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>everything has to be voiced
>no real long conversations with the interesting NPC's, a whole conversation voiced cost Bethesda a bunch of money and it's the equivalent text of 2 conversation topics you click on in Morrowind at most
This compounds into the bigger issue of not delivering enough fantasy in the fantasy game, we're left to assume too much where we should be exploring and discovering, missing the whole point of an open world RPG. Imagine the conversations you could have with the Greybeards, Paarthuaax or other dragons, the various Jarls and anyone involved in politics or history, pretty much anyone that could be interesting has to be contextualized and shorted down to accommodate for delivering all they have through voiced dialogue. This single-handedly killed a lot of the game and the setting for me, the worst part is they drop hints on all kinds of lore or make passing mentions of different events or people or concepts and they never elaborate on anything. I know Morrowind NPCs being walking encyclopedias can suck but I'd rather have that than Skyrim's approach.

>>376052121
1. Its not an RPG. You barely have any story choices and when you do its non consequential
2. The combat is downright fucking awful. Its almost as bad as tab targetting MMO combat.
3. Zero challenge. In anything.
4. Rubbish stories and quests.
5. Homogenized classes and no feeling of power. The moment you start you've seen eveything your character can do

In other words; Oblivion has better quests, DD has better combat, souls is harder and Skyrim is just awful at everything.

>>376054732
Its challenging, its combat is good, it has puzzles that are fun and not

>HUH, LOOK AT THOSE SYMBOLS ON THIS CLAW, LOOKS PRETTY SIMILAR

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>>376052121

>>376070195
dd?

>>376070336
i mean if the distinguished steam community says so who are we to deny it

>>376070336
Bethesda has the same superpower Blizzard does. A giant normie casual fanbase that defends them to death no matter what they do.

Bethesda games are seen as acceptable to play to normies, although they dont know the developer they just know
>oh cool dude its a new elder scrolls, thats those guys who made fallout 3? Fucking loved that game!

>>376052121

The combat is terrible. Next to no RPG elements, story is boring, etc. Thread has most of this anyway already.

The only good thing (besides modding capability, but all bethesda games have that) is the setting, and that's only because it's a TES game and they almost always have pretty interesting settings compared to generic medieval europe but with DRAGONS and MAGIC.

>>376070394
Dragons Dogma I think, but Double Dragon could also qualify.

>>376070394
Dragons dogma

Its flawed as fuck. But at least it has good dragon fights.

>>376052121
It didn't have any writers.

>>376052121
Rinse and repeat dungeons sprawling across the map. Every single major dungeon was pretty much the same. The awfully simplistic combat system which consisted of move forward and backward spamming an attack. The awful animations. The awful NPC dialogue, not to mention the complete lack of unique lines. The main storyline which was just awful, not memorable at all. Exploration was boring as you saw the same thing pretty much everywhere. Even when you got to some new locale (Dwemer dungeons) it immediately become copy and pasted garbage. The numerous bugs and glitches that plagued the game, I had to use console commands just to finish many quests that wouldn't trigger. On top of all this, the game is goddamn ugly vanilla. I could go on all day about what is awful about this piece of shit game.

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>>376052121
It was dumbed down compared to Oblivion, which was in turn dumbed down from Morrowind, which was in turn dumbed down from Daggerfall. Most people seem to nostalgia over whatever Elder Scrolls game was their first, declaring the previous one in the series "too dated" or "clunky" while complaining about all the downgrades of the sequel.

You definitely see it a lot with Morrowind fans, since that age range probably makes up the majority of /v/irgins, then to a lesser extent Oblivion fans.

>>376052121
Honestly the mods make the game real fun. Especially the Magic mod. Other mods like the civil war mod, random encounters mod and alternate start mod really improves the vanilla game

>>376052121
>Forced into starting quests just by hearing about them or entering certain public places
>Quests listed as Objectives instead of a journal
>You can't actually complete some quests purely via information the game gives if you turn the quest marker off
>That ugly out of place UI that gets 10x better simply from changing the font to the Oblivion UI font (It works so well that I don't know why they didn't decide to do this)
>The dialogue is always painfully average/annoying

After the Souls series having generally amazing voiced lines done by people I've never even seen anyone talk about, Bethesda have no excuse not to have better overall voice acting and dialogue, you don't need famous voice actors, you just want voice actors that make sense.


I like the look, I like the setting well enough, I like the dragons (Even though they are pushovers and generally weak)

I actually like the perk system, However I don't like the perk system in Elder Scrolls, save that shit for another game

Bethesda aren't interested in making fleshed out RPGs any more, they just want to streamline as much as possible to appeal the general masses that somehow didn't know that Oblivion & Morrowind exist, so what Skyrim does seems new to them.

Bethesda need to get off the hand holding trend, it makes their world so boring when it could so easily be a lot more fun.

Elder Scrolls lore is still my favorite RPG lore of any series but it's the one that get squandered the most and it's so disappointing.

>>376052121
All of those are reasons it's bad but Todd is the one that made it bad.

>>376070394
Dragon's Dogma, I presume.

DD also has a better story and lore. Sequel never ever.

>>376052121
I didn't like it and my opinion is more important than yours, so its a bad game. I don't need to explain myself (But you do if you claim its good).

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>/v/ still pretends Skyrim was a bad game after all these years just to be contrarian

>>376071452
It's a respectable game on it's own, but much like Dark Souls II it's a bad game within it's own series.

>>376070764
Morrowind was my first but I do like Daggerfall more, I just thought Morrowind was more interesting.

Oblivion in hindsight isn't too bad, I still think the story is shit and the guilds are largely uninteresting, however the Dark Brotherhood is fucking amazing and I would put it above a lot of side stuff Morrowind did.

Shivering Isles was also pretty neat.

>>376071452
People could write a book on why the game is bad and you'd respond with the same single sentence, stupid frog poster.

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>>376071584
>>376071452
Is this samefag baiting or just neogaf?

>>376071452
>Those first two weeks of launch when everyone loved it
>But then everyone else loved it so we must hate it

>>376054594
No wonder why the concept artist died. Bethesda rendition of his art gave him cancer or something like that.

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>>376052121
>Setting
Skyrim's an okay province
>Lack of Roleplaying
Alternate Lives and whatever mods improve who you're roleplaying as
>Boring dungeons
You got me there

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>>376072292
Some autistic youtuber made 4 40 min part on skyrim calling out all its shit. He did the same with a 3 hour vid on fo4. Both time at the end becoming a rage rant.

>>376072843
roleplaying isnt only character creation. nobody in the world acts differently based on who you are or what youve done

>>376071452
I remember when it first came out and there was general discussion all of the time about it in here. Also faggots trying to be hardcore and bragging about killing bears on the hardest difficulty with no armor and just their fists. People liked it. Now nobody is allowed to like stuff on here or your called a shill or SJW

>>376073151
Adding to this, you can become god king of the game, a vampire werewolf, master mage of the mage college, and thieves would still call you a greenhorn while the various NPCs would tell you to enroll at the college.

>>376071452
It's not a bad game, it's a bad RPG though.

>>376073151
Roleplaying in Bethesda games has always been about playstyle above talking to NPCs or making nonsense choices in quests.

>>376074001
Anyone got that screencap on why everything always boils down to stealth archer?

>>376073493
it's a bad game AND a bad RPG

i like the game and am replaying now but

>shitty leveling system that discourages specializing in favor of doing everything to level as fast as possible
>dungeons are lame
>combat is too simple
>loot is lame and mostly irrelevant cause of crafting

i think bethesda benefits from lack of competition, no other games are really as ambitious

>>376074001
not in daggerfall and morrowind

>>376074981
see
>>376074621

>>376075650
those are all examples of ways to handle the situation. sorry if roleplaying to you is all about the different ways you can kill things, thats not how it is. and these games have plenty of that anyways

regarding the good boy bad boy points, it isnt supposed to be about making a good or bad choice, it's about making a choice the character youre playing as would make. if im playing a conservative dunmer loyal to the Temple and Redoran, im convincing the slaves they dont need to be freed because i believe slavery is legal. If im an imperial thief who hates dunmer customs and thinks their religion is profane, im going to free the slaves because fuck the dunmer and their ways. i might even kill the owner on the way out because dunmer are filthy nigger elves

>>376075989
Point remains the same, role playing in bethesda games has always been done through gameplay not flavor text.

>>376076806
what are you talking about? the post you links has 5 options, 2 of which don't involve talking. gameplay isnt only limited to combat, dialogue choices are a part of gameplay.

just having a hard time understanding what you mean desu

>>376060884

>Hey, we are really down on our luck right now- either people hate us, we're cursed, we're doing shit, or we're loaded with assholes. Come join us, have the guild leadership get dismantled, and then hop on in the leader seat

All the factions in a nutshell

The worst faction by far is the thieves guild, mostly because it would have been one of the best factions if the quest line wasn't the complete antithesis of thievery have a disgustingly large portion of the quests being devoted to fighting and the actual sneaking being stupidly easy

>>376077327
im still pissed about the thieves guild. the first few missions, especially the heist at the honeybee mansion, were really fun. and for a first time playthrough getting approached by Brynjolf (especially if you happen to be rping as a thief up to that point) is neat too, as well as the ratway. even Mercer's betrayal would have been cool. but then they had to go and bring the nightingale shit into it and ruin everything

is there a mod to fix this or what. after all these fucking years youd hope the modders could do somethign besides make titty mods

>>376077128
I think we are having a failure in communication but fundamentally agree on the topic.

>>376077470

In oblivion at least you felt romantic as a thief

In skyrim you're a group of asshats who spend most of their time whining and trying to help the biggest bitch in the realm

The fact that Maven can't be killed, ousted, jailed, or just plain removed from power is a testament to how shit the RPG mechanics are.

>>376052121
One-dimensional NPCs

Lack of roleplaying options (you can't destroy the Thieves Guild but for some reason you can destroy the Dark Brotherhood)

Linear quests where you can't change their outcome and are forced to follow the planned path (all guild storylines)

Unbalanced gameplay, gets repetitive quickly, little to no skill required

Higher difficulties only apply damage modifiers and makes everyone a damage sponge, the AI remains the same (remains shitty)

Essential NPCs (linearity, gimps roleplaying options)

I hate how everything has to be open to everybody. I shouldn't be able to join the mage guild if I've never cast a single spell in my adventuring career, and I sure as hell shouldn't be proclaimed as the archmage for slapping shit with my sword throughout the questline. The thieves guild is even fucking worse. It gives you oppurtunities to fuck up at least a couple of times, but then never punishes you for your failures. What's the fucking point then?

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>>376066151
>Lydia and shes ugly as fuck
delet your post immediately

This is unironically my favorite game and many of my friends love it as well.

Name three better rpgs that aren't some Japanese/giant titties/blue haired otaku shit

reinstalled to mod and make a loli barbarian

what gameplay overhaul mods are good to improve the combat and magic?

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reposting from another thread

"Roleplaying in Morrowind:

>Get quest to free some slaves

You can...

>Convince the slave master to let them go
>Convince the quest giver they don't need to be freed.
>Purchase the slaves from the slave master
>Pick pocket the slave master's key
>Kill the slave master and free the slaves.


Why do so many games think listening to an NPC talk then selecting an option for goodboy/badboy points is a good form of roleplaying?"

this anon was implying this was a shitty form of roleplaying, but it's actually phenomenal and if more quests in skyrim were like this, the game would be fucking great

then again, if there were no voice acting or modders had the stones to create shittons of random quests like this without voice acting, it could also be a decent game

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>>376078731
Kek
I sacrificed her to Boethiah.

>>376052121
I found Skyrim an odd one. On one hand I absolutely love modding the shit out of the game. I did a vampire playthrough and it was a fucking blast. I love roleplaying and autistically documenting a day in a journal. However, I only had a blast because I modded the shit out of it. Vanilla is really lame when I look at old gameplay.

As a game it's not really all that great. It is an amazing base for modding though, but a game shouldn't be that. It should be a good fucking game first, not made into a ok-to-good one by the community.

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>>376078798
fallout
fallout 2
fallout new vegas
morrowind
gothic
gothic 2
vampire the masquerade bloodlines
planetscape: torment
baldurs gate 2
kotor
kotor 2


and for me personally,
witcher 1, 2, 3
mass effect 1, 2

but i can understand if you wouldnt like those since youre playing a premade character

>>376052121
I think it's cool.

this was my first ever open world rpg, and bethesda game. i played it for the first time when i was like 17, senior in highschool, on a shitty toaster over laptop, so it was 100% vanilla

had a fucking blast first time around, stealth archer cuz im a faggot, but also one of the only choices where combat didnt seem like a slog.

i tried to 100% the game my first time around, did literally every quest, cleared literally every dungeon (at least for the most part)

by the end i was just fast travelling to locations that were grouped with a bunch of quest markers so i could knock them out and go back to turn them all in at the same time so i could be done. wasnt very fun then

every time ive tried to go back ive realized theres no replayability because no quests change based on anything you do, you play the same character every time

i put in my 250 hour and thats all ill ever do

The quest writing is the most boring of the three modern Scrolls games

>>376071452
As expected of a retarded frogposter. No one needs to "pretend" it's a bad game, plenty of evidence to that claim has been brought forth.

>>376065684
>/v/ is so young they think every TES game is like Skyrim
Jesus Christ

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I remember being pretty pissed when in Oblivion I couldn't even wear clothing under armor, or a robe over armor, where I couldn't pick and choose what exactly to enchant my gear with or create magical items with "on use" effects like restore health/fatigue 1p to make things more convenient. I remember being upset that I couldn't separately wear left or right pauldrons or gauntlets either. But still, despite those downsides I gave that game the benefit of the doubt. When I realized that even more was gone from Skyrim and even less added other than idiotic gimmicks of shouting which are shitty mmo tier abilities with unnecessarily long "cooldowns", I knew for sure that this game would be bad. I sank about 80 hours into it, scouring every corner of it, to make sure that I am not wrong and that the game has redeeming qualities, so that I could form complete opinion on it. It is bad. Uninspired, boring, lazy piece of shit of a game that owes its success to a massive marketing campaign and being sold to people that don't know any better.

>>376078798
Almost everything

>>376054594
awful
how can anyone be fine with this

>>376059343
>aged like milk
basically means you're too dumb to play them, right? plenty of old games are perfectly playable.

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>>376080068
I feel you, anon.

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>>376065684
t. never played an elder scrolls game other than skyrim and oblivion. maybe not even oblivion

It's not bad, it's just shallow. It dumbed down the core without improving the rest.

This thread sucks. I'm taking over. Let's discuss the Skyrim Civil War. Who was in the right? I know that on the surface Ulfric seems to be righteous but would he actually be capable of fighting off the AD?

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>>376081612
Ulfric was a useful idiot. He was not really capable of anything with the Dragonborn running around and it was only a matter of time before he was gutted and replaced by another useful idiot.

>>376081612
>I know that on the surface Ulfric seems to be righteous but would he actually be capable of fighting off the AD?

You are talking about a Thalmor spy and a pedophile. A man that sucker punches his king and then flees in the night. A man that would sooner surrender than fight to the death.

He's a fraud. He would be absolutely fucking useless against the AD.

>>376081612
literally doesnt matter since you cant actually address or discuss any of these issues in game and just have to speculate on this godforsaken place about it

what a wasted opportunity

>>376052121
it's 100% the questlines.

no arguing about it. thieves guild, dark brotherhood, main quests fighters guild and mages guild were all MUCH better in oblivion. they ashare many of the same flaws, some things were even worse in olvivion, bu the quests redeem it so much while skyrim offers practically nothing of quality

Almost everything is bad or mediocre. Most of the time you keep playing in hope that you will find something that doesn’t suck.

Because Bethesda awkwardly shoehorned in poorly implemented RPG elements and meaningless stat numbers into what was clearly meant to be a dumb action game. They clearly don't give a fuck about making RPGs anymore and never will again, so I don't know why they even bother.

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I have a gorrilion mods and on my latest playthrough I found a scantily clad woman who's entire left side was burned and was guarded by a Lich/Dragon Priest and a nigger in deadric. They don't react to outside of glaring at me. When I attack them they insta delete me. What do? I have no sex mods.

>>376052121
90% of the quests being "Go into draugr cave/bandit hideout, murder everything and bring me the item inside the chest at the end.".

>>376081612
Anybody who makes an objective judgement based on the evidence in the lore can't side with Ulfric. He's an elf cock sucker, a traitor to his own race.

>>376082067
>Most of the time you keep playing in hope that you will find something that doesn’t suck.
this, I spent the bettter of several 100 hours with diffferent builds just to find out nothing is really good, but it's not offensively bad enough to stop you from playing.

>>376052121
It was a good game for me.

>>376082829
See I don't think he's intentionally a traitor though. I think he was just shortsighted. The Empire is the best chance Tamriel has at defeating the AD and he never considered that. His Nord pride and desire to keep Skyrim free got in the way of the only, albeit obscure, chance of ridding Skyrim of the AD.

>>376071452
skyrim hate threads use to be constant

Vanilla game looks like garbage, it has awful gameplay, and the same 7 monotone shitty voice actors kill any immersion in the story and quests

Same could be said about the whole series desu

>>376083638
supporting him is like making your hillbilly texan major the president

>>376083638
Maybe it's just shitty Bethesda writing, but you can't tell me that "trying to take down the AD" by making a deal with them, and basically making an alliance isn't just a complete betrayal.

>>376052121

it had no substance, no life. It felt like a game devoid of any emotion or love. big as a lake, deep as a puddle.

>>376083638
Shortsighted is a little nicer than he deserves. If Ulfric was physically capable of forming multiple coherent thoughts in sequence, it would only take a minute or two to realize how fucking stupid he's being.

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>>376083638
>>376083836
>>376083897
Why the fuck does that matter when the Dragonborn can just waltz his ass to Summerset and do it himself. In a universe where you can literally meme everything into existence this kind of shit is pointless. They will probably use some meme reason to not mention what actually happened in detail.

>>376062748
>"You are the special cookie dragonborn!!!"

I could have lived with this. What I couldn't live with is that basically the entire plot falls on your lap at the very start, and you're almost INSTANTLY involved in a big way.

Alduin attacking and saving you at the start might be the biggest mistake the game made (or at least the only one that I can't "forgive"). Then the game drops "Dragonborn" on you in the first few hours of gameplay, and you spend the rest of the game... not even being the dragonborn. Slaying a dragon feels like an achievement the first time even though you have like 6 other NPCs with you, but as you do it more and more the title feels empty.

Which is actually my biggest gripe with this game I've put over 200 hours into with a barebones mod set up just out of personal preference. Everything feels empty, which is kind of what you get out of these games, so a lot of the time enemy selection gets a pass on that. But it falls over every time it tries to be interesting because it seems almost thoughtless.

Potema, someone so important to the history of Skyrim she has her own load screen quote for "I would sell the souls of all my subjects to Daedra to be High Queen of Skyrim", and she has some (2) nice moments where she goes full "villain" monologue against you. And what could have been an interesting dungeon, because suddenly draugr were rising to defend this HORRIBLE woman, unlike simply because they feel you're a threat felt empty because apart from 2 wall panels, it was just another draugr crypt. The corpses of ancient nords which rise to defend their tombs were overused. Not even any "special" enemies, there were also vampires (which thankfully had Potema-specific dialogue) I guess. I'm really hoping that I haven't finished that questline when I gave her remains to the guy, because otherwise the final fight being a horde battle BUT with a beam of magic that dealt barely any damage going around the room was super lackluster.

>>376067349
"Interesting quests" don't exist in Skyrim (well, I'm sure they do, but they're not AS interesting).

"Interesting locations" on the other hand? Absolutely. The only thing I dislike is that in the back of my mind I feel like the locations I've enjoyed will be ruined because the radiant quest system decides "NOPE, this random location that has it's own story being told through notes and level design has a macguffin you need for a reward" and undermining that whole thing.

There's a chapel of Stendar that's got taken out by some vampire necromancers over in the rift, and if you read the notes it's an interesting back and forth and insight into "Vampires aren't all just monsters" (which you learn, only for almost every vampire in the game to attack on sight, so... eh). I'm planning on having a look through the mountains to see if I can see where The Unseen made their home before they decided to attack at some point though, just because I'm actually fairly confident that the game isn't going to mention a cave that doesn't exist.

>>376084743
interesting locations are drops of rain in the ocean that is filled with draugr dungeons and bandit camps

>>376052121
It's a good game but could have been better.

They tried too hard to appeal to the casual crowd by removing RPG elements to make it more actiony. They relied too much on the dungeons. In Morrowind and Oblivion, the questions weren't always just "go into this underground place that look exactly like all the other underground places and find x object and return it to me."

It was also too easy to progress through the game, and you didn't have as much control over your character.

Fallout 4 took these impulses even further in that direction, hopefully they will learn from its underwhelming sales and reinstate the things Morrowind and Oblivion did well, while keeping some of the improvements from Skyrim.