I'll say it now and I'll say it here: Breath of the

ITT a person argues with himself that a game from a 2017 console is better than a game from 15 years ago.

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Wind Waker has a decent story, characters with actual motivations, the best music in the entire series, the best sound design, the most timeless artstyle.

BotW has... slightly better combat, and manages to have worse dungeons than WW.

hmmm....

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>>375984128

>implying BoTW's characters don't have motivations

what

Agreed on everything else though. Combat is only better in BoTW because of the sheer quantity of options available. The Swordplay alone though? WW beats BoTW.

Swordplay in WW at least has the illusion of Link knowing more than just swinging a sword from side to side I mean come the fuck on.

Breath of the Wild is really the great musical compositions that the previous games have. I want to hear some cool music while I fight enemies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BStjuHfP238

>>375983709
Wind Waker was like that partly because of technological limitations and partly because it was designed by a monkey for tiny retarded children.

You couldn't have made a world that large and interactive back then. It would've turned out like Jurassic Park Trespasser.

>>375984128
>Divine beats
>Not the most well designed dungeons in the series

>>375983709
>the most timeless artstyle

Even if it's ironic, it's still shitposting

>>375983709

Which just goes to show how bad WW is when even BoTW is better. Very sad.

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>>375984128

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>>375984785
>Divine beats

>>375984618
Link's only motivation in BotW is "uhh... gotta fight calamity ganon... because it's like my destiny and shit...because burger king told me so"

>>375983709
BoTW managed to have shittier dungeons than even Wind Waker though which already had the worst dungeons ever made

Wind Waker was the only mainline Zelda to take a totally different approach to the overworld. It may not have been perfect, but it gets tons of points for doing a pretty good job.

BotW is near perfect, but very standard and expected. Oh wow, Death Mountain for the millionth time, how exciting.

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>>375985039

Grats, you didn't play the game. Or at the very least you didn't pay attention.

He has amnesia and is motivated to get his memory back. I don't know why you're trying this hard to be wrong about something.

>>375985104
No. See
>>375984972

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>>375984972
>the "hardest shrine in the game"
>there's a sign that spells out exactly what you're supposed to do

>>375985178
He showed no inclination toward ever being motivated by that fact.

>>375985230
>constellation shrine
>hardest in the game
if you're a retard maybe

>>375983709
I'm not gonna pretend that WW didn't have its flaws but it was a pretty novel open world for a 2003 game.

But yeah, BotW definitely feels more finished in comparison.

>>375985192
BoTW's "dungeons" are just glorified giant puzzles. The objective is the same in all of them, active some terminals and fight the boss. Enemies in them consist of the same pushover eye things that spawn bubbles and weak-ass robots.

All chests give useless weapons that you won't need because your inventory is most likely maxed out already so you just ignore them. Not to mention they all look the same.

The're boring and repetitive.

Wind Waker sucks but at least the dungeons had treasure charts to collect which always led to pieces of heart. So you had incentive to explore them. Also every dungeon had a different mechanic.

>>375985104
What a load of bullshit. BotW's dungeons weren't amazing, but they were well designed tests of spatial reasoning that didn't hold your hand and didn't get in your way. If you saw a solution in one of many actions, you could implement it in seconds.

Wind Waker's dungeons were an absolute insult. They're entirely linear sequences of puzzles with obvious solutions that make you go through repetitive tedious motions. You spend 20 minutes in a dungeon and you're only thinking for a tenth of that time.

I wish I had a webm of the mirror room in the Earth Temple but since it takes so long to push all of the blocks along completely straight tracks, it'd go over filesize limits.

>>375985145
BotW is nowhere near perfect.

It's in the bottom half of the 3d Zeldas for sure.

>>375985479
I meant it's overworld is near perfect. Left that out accidentally.

>>375985479
>It's in the bottom half of the 3d Zeldas for sure.
>OoTfags actually believe this

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>>375985371

>He showed no inclination toward ever being motivated by that fact
>by that fact
>that fact
>fact

Thanks for playing anon, it was short and sweet but fun. It is a primary objective in the game. If all he wants to do is kill Calamity Ganon because a dead king told him to, then he wants to find his memories because an old Impa told him to.

You played yourself bro

>>375985432
>You spend 20 minutes in a dungeon and you're only thinking for a tenth of that time.
In BotW 3 out of the 4 dungeons take a maximum of 10 minutes to solve, all of them have no enemies, no unique style to them, and rely on one single gimmick to solve.

>>375985432
Yeah, WW sucks. But I can remember memorable things from every dungeon with ease, they were at least very distinct from each other.

The divine beasts all had the same map gimmick and the same two enemies in them. They're lazy as all fuck.

>>375985585

>OoTfags actually believe this

I love OoT, its a more focused game than BoTW. I don't think its in the bottom half though, its great.

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>>375985426
>BOTW dungeons are just glorified puzzles
>says this as if it is a bad thing

>Zelda: an action puzzle dungeon crawler

I know you WW fags think Zelda is for pretty colors and empty sailing but it is not

>>375985747
>I know you WW fags
I outright said WW sucks. It has shitty dungeons that are still better dungeons than BotW's but of course BotW's main focus is on the overworld which is amazing.

>>375985889
>It has shitty dungeons that are still better dungeons than BotW's
This is how I know you're a WW fag

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>>375985889
Stop pretending, only WW fags have such bad taste.

>>375984785
They're all so short.

I'll never understand why people go out of their way to defend the bad parts of a good game.

>>375985968
Other Zelda dungeons would take the same amount of time if the execution of puzzle solving didn't take years.

>>375985634
I don't know if you're deliberately misrepresenting the dungeons or if you never played the game, but they're about as long as any of Wind Waker's dungeons except without being tedious as hell, they do have enemies, and they are all unique layouts and vistas. None of them rely on a single gimmick, they have proper central dungeon mechanisms that affect many rooms and puzzle elements, like MM but moreso.

>>375985650
I don't see how it's a gimmick. It's a mechanism, and they're all different from one another. It's like saying all of Majora's Mask's dungeons are the same because they have hub rooms. I find the BotW divine beasts much more interesting, even to look at since you're always going inside and outside and they're set in dynamic locations. That's really all secondary though.

The lack of enemy variety is a major disappointment.

>>375986095
This.

Someone should edit out all the fluff in OOT dungeons and add it to BOTW and see how they compare

>>375986156
I can guarantee that I've played both of these games more than you, m8.

The Wind Temple in Wind Waker had more puzzles and content than all of BotW dungeons combined. Also, not putting enemies in the dungeons was completely retarded.

>>375986178
>puzzles are fluff
If you removed puzzles from BotW dungeons they would each take 5 seconds instead of 10 minutes, including the boss fights.

>>375985039
>WW link only fought to save his sister and his dickholder

>BOTW Link fought to save Hyrule

WW link confirmed dickhead

>>375986450
That is not what I meant you knuckle dragging Neanderthal.

I meant all the cutscenes and the useless shit inbetween the puzzles like going through doors took a few seconds each fucking time.

BOTW had none of that.

>>375986475
WW Link was fighting to save the world and Tetra by the end of the game. His motivations grew and changed over the course of the game.

BotW Link's motivations are static and boring, a requirement for the non-linear overworld style the game adopted.

>>375983928
>wind waker was 15 years ago
i really fucking need to pay more attention to my calendar i am really missing some fucking gaps

>>375986660
>WW fags think this is deep
No, he did it to save Zelda because he wanted to lose his virginity

>save the world
Yes, all those fucking fish, amirite? There is no world to save.

I love how they think this weak ass version of "character development" makes the game good. Kinda like how theu praise WW for making Ganon a dindu.

>>375986608
>waiting for doors is bad
>implying waiting for the bullshit to rotate in the divine beasts is any better

>>375983709

It wasn't possible to create a BotW-tier open world on Gamecube. It's actually nuts that they were able to do it on Switch/Wii U. I mean BotW literally has the best open world compared to any open world PS4/Xbone games, now compare it to any 360/PS3 open world games, because its basically using that level of hardware.

>>375986850
One is actually part of the puzzle and one is not.

Want to take a guess which one is?

>>375986450
The Wind Temple is garbage and nobody ever calls out how shitty it is because it's completely unmemorable. It is exactly as linear and boring as every other temple in the game and it takes 30 minutes to complete only because of dumb bullshit like the Command Melody and a bunch of slow puzzles and rooms.

The gimmick of the dungeon is completely wasted because Makar gets jailed immediately. Up until you free him, the dungeon is 100% linear. The only backtracking you have to do is one room away from the room you free him, to blow up a melody stone. Then it's a straight shot to the boss which is probably the easiest and worse boss in the entire game.

So far so mediocre as with every other dungeon. But the kicker is how infuriatingly slow so many of the rooms are. The worst is the run up to the boss door where you have to push around blocks to cover Makar's slow ass because he can't get around moving blades. It's unbelievable how they combined Command Melody and slow block pushing into pure undiluted tedium.

Special mention to the god awful treasure chart room where the solution to the puzzle is to guess the "wrong" floor tile repeatedly and go through every wave of enemies.

>>375985951
>>375985964
I'm not that faggot and I agree with you guys, but even y'all can admit that WW was a pretty good attempt at an overworld for its time. BotW is obviously way better than it at everything though so again I agree with what you're saying.

>>375986850
Except it is because it's useful and there's reasons to be on stuff while it's moving, so it has to move at that speed for a bunch of puzzles to be feasible.

WW
>Rich world filled with detail, solid mechanics, and new ideas

BotW
>Empty open world filled with mostly two enemy types and elementary school tier shrine "puzzles"
>Easiest and least interesting dungeons
>Half of game time padded with MMO tier fetch quests and riding from place to place

>>375987136
Oh I get it, the joke is that you switched the descriptions of both games, that's funny.

>>375984128
pretty much this. They should've cut down on the shrines a bit and focused more on dungeons

>>375986969
It's still lightyears ahead of any of the BotW dungeons.

Divine Beast Vah Medoh:
>run across room to get map panel (after listening to the exact same monologue as the other three dungeons)
>get first control panel
>tilt wing to left
>get second and third panels
>tilt wing to right
>get panel four and go underneath to get panel five
>teleport to entrance
>start boss fight
>defeat in 10 seconds using lynel bow
This is easily the worst dungeon in the entire history of the series.

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>>375987136
>WW complaining about another game "riding from place to place"

>WW fag complaining about another game's dungeons

>WW fag complaining about another game's emptyness

Holy hell, I have seen it all now

>>375987136
Come on man, I love Wind Waker but you can't fucking pretend that BotW didn't do everything WW did but about a million times better.

>>375987447
The farthest place you can sail to in WW takes literally 5 minutes

It can take 20 minutes to reach some places in BotW and it always plays that shitty repetitive horse riding theme over and over.

>>375987390
Monologue is skippable, the panels can be gotten in any order, and your description glosses over literally everything, it's like descring a dungeon as key, door, key, door, item, key, boss.

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Wind waker was the worst 3d zelda game
Heres some objective facts:

>Between 1/2 and 1/3 of the dungeons were completely cut during development
>Of the remaining dungeons, 2 were just made by recycling material you already played once, and the rest were the worst dungeons in any 3d zelda
>2/3 of the islands in the great sea were copy/paste jobs of repetitive reefs, fairy islands, triangle beam islands or featureless archipelagos
>There were only 4 creatures in the whole great sea and repeated endlessly with no difference between any environment
>Sailing was incredibly monotonous and used to pad gameplay length
>The second half of the game was just filler fetch quests to pad gameplay length
>Combat was so pathetically easy and trivialized you could do it blind folded
>The items were just copy/pasted from OOT/MM, again
>Worst bosses of 3d zeldas until TP/SS came along

>>375987525
Yeah man I sure love running through a field for 30 minutes to hit the same enemy type again just so I can get some items to run 30 more minutes back for an MMO quest. Maybe I can do another shitty shrine on the way where the loading screen is longer than the actual shrine's content. A million times better for sure.

>>375987525
see >>375984128

>Nintenbros think Zelda is relevant

It's like none of you actually play videogames.

>>375987684
>Yeah man I sure love SAILING through a BLUE EMPTYNESS for 30 minutes to hit the same FUSH/BIRD ENEMY type again just so I can get some TREASURE MAPS to SAIL 30 more minutes back for an MMO TREASURE HUNT quest.

>Maybe I can do another shitty RUPEE HUNT FOR TINGLE'S MAPS on the way where the GRIND is longer than the actual GAME'S content. A million times better for sure.

FTFY

I haven't played breath of the wild, but windwaker was a great appetizer for open world, and I can agree it made me wish for an open world. But I credit windwaker for giving me yet another yearning, and that was for a much vaster sailing game. Something just as graphically beautiful, with gorgeous ocean waves and sound effects, but with very little music. Something immersive.

>Zelda vs Zelda thread
Nintendo won

>>375983709
BotW is basically WW 2.0, they suffer from all the same problems too. Except WW's visuals are way better.

>>375983709
Wind Waker wasn't made during the time where everything had to be open world or it was a shit game

>>375987871
This, Wind Waker had the most tedious bullshit padding in any Zelda game and it was all mandatory.

Not even SS was as bad about wasting your time on filler.

>>375987643
>Between 1/2 and 1/3 of the dungeons were completely cut during development
still has double the dungeons of BotW
>Of the remaining dungeons, 2 were just made by recycling material you already played once, and the rest were the worst dungeons in any 3d zelda
they're definitely sub par for the series, but still far superior to the ones in BotW
>2/3 of the islands in the great sea were copy/paste jobs of repetitive reefs, fairy islands, triangle beam islands or featureless archipelagos
2/3 of the shrines are "blessing" or combat trials in BotW, and not a single one is even slightly challenging
>There were only 4 creatures in the whole great sea and repeated endlessly with no difference between any environment
there are 4 creatures in the whole of BotW, just with different color codes to indicate level
>Sailing was incredibly monotonous and used to pad gameplay length
horse riding is even worse in BotW
>The second half of the game was just filler fetch quests to pad gameplay length
all of BotW is literally a fetch quest
>Combat was so pathetically easy and trivialized you could do it blind folded
WW is really easy but don't pretend like BotW isn't also piss-easy
>The items were just copy/pasted from OOT/MM, again
? objectively wrong
>Worst bosses of 3d zeldas until TP/SS came along
no argument there

>>375987886
>WW is great because it is so shit, it makes you yearn for something better

>>375987709
See
>>375986813

>>375983709
i dont like wind waker but at least theres things to do in that game, the entire point of botw is to grind shrines

>>375987684
>Yeah man I sure love running through a field for 30 minutes to hit the same enemy type again

Wind Waker doesn't have THAT many more enemy varieties, dude. Bokoblins and ChuChus cover more of the overworld than any other enemy type anyway.

>so I can get some items to run 30 more minutes back for an MMO quest

Most of WW's sidequests amounted to "bring me X amount of trinkets" too, the difference is that BotW at least had more interesting sidequests in the form of shrine quests.

>Maybe I can do another shitty shrine on the way where the loading screen is longer than the actual shrine's content

A blatant exaggeration if I've ever heard of, and what fucking puzzles did WW have?

>>375988097
Like what? Stare at an empty ocean for days and grind for ruppees in the latter half of the game?

Seriously what the fuck are all you niggers smoking? How do people say shit like this and actually mean it?

>>375987643
>webm
How can someone be so monumentally terrible at such an easy game?

>>375987684
In Windwaker you could hold a button to make your boat inch slowly forward without wind. It literally takes only 40 minutes to get from one far end to the other of the map doing this.
Half an hour of sailing is something that never once happened while any of you were playing thsi game.

>>375988191
Name just one "interesting" shrine quest so we can all laugh at you.

>>375988309
Not him but name one "interesting" dungeon in WW so we can all laugh at you

>>375984128

BOTW's combat is the worst in any 3D Zelda game. Your moveset is stupidly limited.

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>>375988374
That's impossible

WW even literally had a dungeon go
>*BLOCKS your PATHS*

>>375988390
And it is still superior to WW.

Amazing.

>>375988374
funny joke, but we were talking about side quests not dungeons

>>375988309
Okay.

>Stranded on Eventide
>The Serpent's Jaw
>Stolen Heirloom
>The Three Giant Brothers
>The Silent Swordswomen
>Shrouded Shrine
>Master of the Wind
>The Spring of Wisdom

Please list another Zelda sidequest that was as fun to play.

>>375988545
That is even worse faggot.

Name one "interesting" side quest in WW.

>>375988309
Ice cube and blue flame were great. Go fuck yourself.

>>375988545
Did WW have a single good sidequest? Because the only ones I really remember were the worst trading sequence in any Zelda, the stupid tedious Korok sailing, and the worst sidequest of all time ever, the original's pictobox figurines.

>>375988037
I credit it for creating the interest in a sailing game, because before WW I never thought a sailing element could be this much fun.

>>375983709

Almost true. Neither game has dungeons worth a shit but either way BotW does fix WW's other problems. Still the worst of the 3D games due to the aforementioned lack of dungeons, though.

>>375988559
None of those except Eventide are remotely good, and Eventide is only good when played at a low level early in the game.

>>375988019
>still has double the dungeons of BotW
BotW has 120 minidungeons and 5 big dungeons

>>375988763
I would humor you but you are literally a WW fag. You objectively have bad taste.

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>>375988390
no fuck you

literally ANYTHING is better than shitward shits's retarded wagglefest where the entirety of the combat is "DDR with a vertical board"

I'll say it now and I'll say it here: BotW threads should be banned on sight.
>hurr hurr stop liking what I don't like!
I own BotW (PiiU, not Switch) I think it was a great game when all is said and done. But BotW threads should be deleted on sight. This is for the sole reason that BotW drones are completely incapable of having a conversation. You CANNOT convince these people that this game is anything less than the greatest game of all time. Saying anything to the contrary will get your post drowned in (You)s and shitposting, because BotW fanboys are the most autistic people on this site. So yes, I loved BotW, but for the sake of quality, BotW threads need to be made bannable.

>>375984972
every FUCKING thread

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>>375988858
look at the speed of the enemies in skyward sword
now compare them to THIS

>>375988764
>walk into shrine
>"here's my blessing"
>this is a minidungeon

>walk into shrine
>fight one (1) enemy
>this is a minidungeon

>>375988760
They both had 5 dungeons. And that's more than Majora's Mask, the best 3D Zelda.

>>375988763
>None of those except Eventide are remotely good

How are they not "remotely good"?

>>375988865
Bro, I do not give one damn what people think about BotW.

I am only here to shit on WW fags

>>375983928
wind waker was always shit prove me wrong

>>375988916
>walk into shrine
>"here's my blessing"
>this is a minidungeon

>walk into shrine
>fight one (1) enemy
>this is a minidungeon

there are 70 puzzle shrines
29 blessing shrines (which are almost all from above-ground puzzles)
21 combat shrines

about 4-5 puzzle shrines are as large as a small normal zelda dungeon, comparable to something like the deku tree without the bossfight.

>>375988916
>walk into ghost ship
>single room

15 years later and the disappoint is still palpable.

>>375988925
Hahahahahahaha

>>375983709
imagine if in WW you could just climb to the top of dragon roost island by passing all the fights and puzzles on the way up? That is BOTW and once you realize that you realize how terrible a game BOTW really is. The plateau is the only good area in the game simply because it limits you from just going to your destination in a straight line.

>>375989072
>every single bokoblin platform is identical
>every single enemy rush room is identical
>every single submarine is identical
>ghost ship is just a palette swap submarine
>every single reef is identical
>every single big octo is identical

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>>375988925
>MM
>best 3D Zelda

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>>375989138
>Botw was designed with limitless verticality in mind

>WW fags think this is somehow bad

Holy shiI always knew they were retarded but damn!

>>375989138
>I hate freedom
>I hate verticality
>If the game developers give me the option to skip content and go to the finish line, I skip all the content

>>375988994
>The Serpent's Jaw
tedious quest with a riddle lost in translation, which also makes no sense canonically
>Stolen Heirloom
requires completing ever kakariko village quest for no reason
>The Three Giant Brothers
brainless easy "boss" fights
>The Silent Swordswomen
follow where the swords are pointing, wow, so amazing of a quest
>Shrouded Shrine
unnecessarily dark due to graphics limitations and forces you to carry around a wooden weapon
>Master of the Wind
how is this a good quest? it's just bombing some rocks
>The Spring of Wisdom
blatant copy of a bad quest from skyward sword

>>375988914
and yet you can ignore all enemies in the game and just run past them

BotW doesn't follow the classic Zelda formula. It isn't a real Zelda game, it's a spin-off, treat it as such.

>>375986156
Not him, but BOTW's dungeons are some of the shortest 3D dungeons in the entire series. Saying they're as long as WW's is delusional

>>375983709
>the best zelda should've been the worst zelda
fuck off with your open world shit

>>375989321
this format for the game would be OK if ganon wasn't so piss-easy to beat

it would be nice to have real motivation to power up your character, which is what every single quest in BotW is meant to do

>>375983709
both suck donkey dicks

>>375989271
Not the guy you're replying to, but puzzles are a big portion of what makes up any conventional zelda game.

>>375989349
Name ONE better WW puzzle

Protip: you can't

>>375988858
Isn't it actually better to not L-target the stalfos in OOT

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Okay we need to settle this

BASED ON COMBAT ALONE:

1. Ocarina of Time
2. Breath of the Wild
3. Majora's Mask
4. Twilight Princess
5. Adventure of Link
6. Zelda 1
7. All the other 2d Zelda games and their brainless 4-8 directional combat
8. Wind Waker
9. CD-I Games
10. Skyward Sword

>>375989554
IT'S AONUMA STYLE
PUZZLES ARE MY STYLE

>>375989554
How the fuck does that thave anything to my post?

He is implying that its verticality would be bad if it was in WW. Well no shit, it was not designed for it.

Are you guys braindead?

>>375989365
so now being able to avoid encounters is bad?

>>375989271
I could use any zelda as an example. was gonna use lttp, but people were talking about WW, so figured I'd make that comparison. being able to bypass everything by climbing is really bad design and fighting is completely pointless despite having the most ammount of effort put into the ai in the entire series. It couldn't have hurt to put normal enemies in unique forts in a shrine instead of the same stupid robot, so there was at least some point to all that effort. Even just slap a robo texture/model on them if you need them to be that way for lore or whatever shit.

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>>375989565
not exactly
if you keep the Z targeting on the stalfos, the other stalfos won't engage you, they'll take turns. If you don't keep Z targeting they will tag team.
if you don't target them you can bypass their shield more easily, but they can bypass your shield more easily
but the optimal way to kill them is to backstab for triple damage, just bait them into a jump, roll through it, turn and backstab

>>375989349
You're both dramatically oversimplifying what made these quests enjoyable and overlooking what made them better than WW's even more mindless quests.

Kill yourself.

>>375989698
might as well remove all enemies then. Wouldn't be much different from the game I played at least,

>>375989723
No it's not you fucking moron.

Having another entire plane to travel and with it designed in the game opens entire doors of game play.

Think what you want about how shory the divine beasts are but their mechanics, combined with botw's climbing mechanics were more fun and intuitive than any shit you can find in wind waker.

Seriously did you even play the game?

>>375989638
1. Adventures of Link (normie filter)
2. Twilight Princess
3. Ocarina of Time
4. Majora's Mask
5. Four Swords games
6. All the other 2d Zelda games
7. Breath of the Wild (major downgrade for the worst boss fights in the series)
8. Wind Waker
9. Skyward Sword
10. CD-I Games
>fixed for you

>>375989638
Ocarina is my favorite game of all time but I'd have to put MM above it in terms of combat. It's the same exact combat from OoT but you have other combat options like Mask forms each having a unique moveset.

>>375989849
>rating twilight princess highly

someone post the webm of the bokoblin's "AI"

>>375989753
19 fucking years I've been playing this game and I've never thought to fit Stalfos without Z targeting. It just so ingrained from when I was a kid.

>>375988858
I didn't praise SS, though I think if it were mapped to a normal controller it'd be way better. OOT had horizontal and vertical slashing, stabbing, rolling, etc. Everything from Monster Hunter to Dark Souls borrowed from OOT.

>>375988914
>>375989365

When I see this, I'm happy that the enemies are much more interactive and smart, but Link feels incredibly clunky, unresponsive and limited. No more fast rolls, and his weapons have no varied attacks. Link has controlled worse and worse since SS.

>>375989857
enemy AI took a major hit in MM

>>375989638
Twilight Princess has the best combat out of the 3D Zeldas, only thing holding it back (in the vanilla release at least) is the low difficulty.

>>375989920
lizalfoes, darknuts, special sword moves, and actual mounted combat more than make up for it

>>375989836
>>375989698
>>375989365
>ww fags claim avoiding enemies is a bad mechanic

>WW's first """dungeon""""' only mechanic is entirely about avoiding enemies

What did they mean by this?

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>>375989857
MM has worse combat. The transformations have shit combat besides the zora one, but the game has less focus on combat and less enemies to challenge you

OOT was loaded with fights against strong humanoid enemies like stalfos, wolfos, lizalfos, etc. MM had only very few of them and instead most enemies were environmental hazards like deku plants

If you actually play the games back to back, MM has waaaaay less combat going on and its less challenging and less involved. Even the bossfights are half gimmicks

Breath of the Wild has 10x more combat against humanoids of course but it gets stale because its far more repetitive and far less based on sword fighting

>>375983709
Couldn't it be lack of hardware? They wanted the journey from place to place to be great fun, but it would be limited on the system. So making it an ocean gave you that feeling of exploration without actually having to stuff things in it.

>>375989638
How in the fuck does ocarina of time have better combat than majora's mask? They're both literally on the same engine. Hell, I'd even argue that Majora's Mask had cooler enemies and that makes the combat better. The only mistake was no stalfos.

>>375989848
climbing could be a good mechanic if you couldnt upgrade it and areas were actually designed with that in mind, but instead you just max it out and climb over everything. I don't really get whats so amazing about climbing walls with low res textures and flying over everything to reach a orange shiny/area of interest.

>>375989661
>Well no shit, it was not designed for it.
You didn't say that in >>375989271, instead just went belligerent idiot on the guy, thought you needed a spoonful of Cpt. Obvious to calm you down.

>>375990046
>a 30 minute stealth segment in WW is better than the entirety of all stealth mechanics in BotW
really makes u tink

>>375990135
No no, read up, stupid

>>375990038
>izalfoes, darknuts, special sword moves, and actual mounted combat more than make up for it

Yeah so instead of fighting bokoblins who are damage sponges that don't hint back, move slow as molasses and basically never attack you, and even if they do land a hit it only removes 0.25 hearts, you fight darknuts who are even bigger damage sponges, move even slower, they just pace extremely slowly side to side while soaking up damage, then if you hit them too many times in a row they do an instant and unavoidable knockback that only removes 0.25 hearts and you're free to spam on them again or use all the combo moves to chainstun them

TP had shit combat and shit enemies. The only thing keeping it from being worse than wind waker is that at least some enemies could actually deal more than 0.25 hearts in damage and didn't spend 90% of combat dicking around making cartoony noises instead of trying (and failing) to hit you

>>375990135
>>375990089
smaller link
less combat in the game
less challenging enemies
less combat bosses

OOT was like icewind dale, MM was like baldur's gate

>>375990356
fuck
I meant
OOT was like icewind dale
MM was like *planescape torment

>>375990281
>hasn't played the game
hmmm...

>>375990253
Yes because hiding in barrels is so much fun. I forgot, you fags love padding in vidya games.

>>375990238
I literally said BOTW was designed with verticality in mind in that post.

Learn to read dipshit.

>>375990179
It is called freedom dumbass.

You know, the same feeling you retards get when you sail over a palette of blue for 16 hours? It is like that much more sophisticated and less retarded.

>>375990253
I'm loving BotW, but fucking this.

It's so wishy washy. I know you can get different clothing to make it easier, but it feels like sometimes I sneak from 100 feet away and they see me with stealth shoes, and other times they don't see me when I'm sneaking up in iron boots.

It's ridiculous.

>>375990279
Literally all of those enemies, besides stalfos are in MM. Hell, the miniboss at ikana castle are technically stalfos so I might as well take that back. MM also had cooler new enemies and sub bosses. Ikana's eye robot thing and gomess come to mind.

>>375990428
try not running like a retard
if they're not facing you and you have +++ stealth, they'll never hear you you at all if you approach them from behind UNLESS YOU RUN

>>375990428
It is called light retard, do not stand directly in it.

>>375990464
and it had way less of it
half the puzzles in OOT involved fighting a room full of enemies

>>375990428
stealth in BotW is 100% dependent on grass height and pretty much nothing else

not even joking

>>375990492
>>375990538
>>375990591


My point was I enjoyed how they handled stealth in WW better than BotW, not that I wasn't shit.

>>375990605
But they didn't handle it better. WW stealth was fucking retarded and stupidly easy. You are just an idiot.

>>375990410
>what if the ocean had random walls you could still go up but just slower and you can travel more flat ground slightly faster when you get to the top of it
Freedom sounds kinda lame

>>375990605
do you also enjoy going to the dentist

>>375990701
>sounds

Exactly, you did not play the game. BoTW has a lot of problems but its verticality and exploration is what makes it special.

Go back to your blue space and copypasted islands

>>375990695


Of course it was stupidly easy, it was only used in two missions. It was structured around timing, lighting, and planning your pathways. Much more fun than "roll the dice and hope you don't get fucked".

>>375990716
Sometimes the pain feels good.

>>375990716
this mongoloid doesn't like having clean teeth

>>375989507
Well the point is that he's not easy unless you power up your character.

>>375990774
name ONE copypasted island in all of wind waker
you can't
none of the islands were copy/pasted
they are all unique in some way

>>375990410
>I literally said BOTW was designed with verticality in mind in that post.
But therein lies averted potential for puzzles, which is what even an open world Zelda could've had.
>Learn to read dipshit.
>It is called freedom dumbass.
>You know, the same feeling you retards
It'll be okay. It's just the internet. If you read everyone's posts slower, reason will not only set in quicker, you'll learn to calm down.

>>375990801
except he is

>>375990605
They didn't, WW stealth was fucking awful and it was forced.

>>375990782
What the hell are you talking about? BotW's follows a very simple formula of noise, visibilty, and LoS.

WW's stealth consisted entirely of an incredibly slow and tedious barrel.

>>375990774
>oh shit, I have no way to refute this
>I'll just say they didn't play the game

>>375990960
>didn't read the rest of my post
WW fags confirmed illiterate.

>>375990848
Then you are missing the entire point, you mongoloid. Ignoring the fact that managing your climbing is a puzzle itself, the desing was for exploration, which was my entire point. How about you pay attention before you jump into something, jackass.

>>375990815
>"this one island has the same shape and textures as another one but has one unique statue on it"

>"therefore not copypasted"

Retard

>>375990925
>any gameplay mechanic that is required is "forced" and therefore bad
Why do you even play games?

Soooo wasn't it great that all the Divine Beast bosses were just reskins of the same laughably easy monster?

>>375991053
lmao you cant even name one
ONE

>calls wind waker truly baren and empty
>while complementing breath of the fucking wild

weeeeeeeeeeew lad

>>375991070
Forced stealth sections in non-stealth games are as shit as forced action sections in stealth games. Especially when they're slow and awful like in WW.

>>375991189
I don't mind the bosses being ganon entities I just wish they weren't all so piss-easy.

>>375991053
>Climbing walls is what makes it special
You must love skyrim

>>375983709
>water everywhere
>sailing being slow as fuck
>nothing but chests containing rupees or heart pieces
>Triforce quest

This is what drives me away from ever replaying WW, although I absolutely love the art direction and gameplay (smooth controls)

>>375991189
>every single boss has completely different moves and attacks and arena
>one teleports around with blink strikes, has a sword and shield, calls down lightning
>one flies around with an arm cannon and reflects shots onto you from multiple angles and has a charge beam
>one has a giant spear to do sweeps and thrusts and hurls ice blocks at you
>one has a greatsword and employs a large shield and dodongo vacuum attack

and the ONLY similarity is the name, thematic and music. Mechanically they're all completely different
yet you call it "reskins"
literally the only thin the same is the SKIN
its the OPPOSITE of a reskin

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>>375991053
>He thinks climbing is a puzzle.
>He thinks BoTW had puzzles.
Oh boy... I hate to say this kid, but I think you're the mongoloid here.

>>375990815
meanwhile, all treasures and reasons to explore any of them were copy-pasted

It's a fucking boring overworld with souless islands, but everything is magically saved by how amazing the artstyle is

Weapon degradation is the worst mechanic ever invented

>>375991539
without it, why would you ever use more than 2-4 different weapons the entire game, and thus have no variety at all?

>>375991423
Holy shit, you're stupid.
>every single boss has completely different moves and attacks and arena
all of them share multiple moves, and the arenas are all the exact same boring bullshit
>one teleports around with blink strikes, has a sword and shield, calls down lightning
all it does is slash at you with a sword
>one flies around with an arm cannon and reflects shots onto you from multiple angles and has a charge beam
all it does is slash at you with a sword
>one has a giant spear to do sweeps and thrusts and hurls ice blocks at you
all it does is slash at you with a spear
>one has a greatsword and employs a large shield and dodongo vacuum attack
all it does is slash at you with a sword

Beating these bosses is the exact same each time as well.
>shoot weak spot with arrow or perfect dodge its attack
>slash with weapon
>rinse and repeat

>>375991539
Sadly, it's a realistic one. Old swords weren't exactly everlasting, they became blunt and broke very easily after a combat, specially katanas.

>>375991696
real bows never break in thousands of uses

>>375991654
>all the arenas are the same
one is in the back of a bird, with strong winds, another is in the back of a lizard in a volcano, with pits and stuff to climb, other is on a pool inside a mammoth and the last one is in the middle of a tubular room with lightning bolts kissing your anus

you must be fucking blind or just plain stupid

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>>375991539
No, this is.

>>375991654
>all of them share multiple moves, and the arenas are all the exact same boring bullshit
the only "move" they all share is teleporting in a blue ball. Thats it. Other than that, they all fight in completely different styles

the arenas are all completely different. One is the inside of a cylindar, one is 4 platforms on water, one is a bunch of pillars and air vents

>all it does is slash at you with a sword
it blinks around lightning fast and blocks with a shield and shoots forked lightning

>all it does is slash at you with a sword
it doesn't even have a sword you moron, in fact it has no melee attacks

>all it does is slash at you with a spear
a spear that 10x larger than thunderblights sword and it uses for sweeping attacks and stabs that cover the entire room, and it can hurl it too

>>375991638

I like relying on a handful of weapons. Makes it feel like they are my companions. plus I can always swap them out at will when I become bored

>>375991908
What game is that? Dark Cloud?

>>375991638
ironically end game you will be using the same weapon simply because your have a shit ton of duplicate royal weapons.

I wish I got more than 1 giant boomerang, but it also doesnt really matter either since it was kinda shit anyways. almost all gerudo weapons were trash as well. Felt like there were a bunch of weapons with no incentive to ever use them

>>375991917
>makes it feel like they are my companions
You'll never ever use a +10 atk sword when you already have a +30 atk one, that's a fucking fact. Out of 20 weapons, you'll barely use more than 2 of them post mid game.

>when I become bored
that's not how you fucking design a game, thinking like "hey, let's put these just for fun, maybe when someone is bored they might use it..."

>>375992106
>using royal weapons when guardian weapons exist

>>375992106
there are lots of giant boomerangs. You just need to know where to look. Theres like 3 lizalfos with giant boomerangs on top of one of the hollows in hebra mountains

>almost all gerudo weapons were trash as well.
moonlight scimitar is only 4 less damage than the royal broadsword

>. Felt like there were a bunch of weapons with no incentive to ever use them
the incentive is that they replace your breaking weapons
maybe you think the durability should have been harsher so you'd NEED to keep replacing weapons lategame?

>>375984972
My goodness

>>375992194
>You'll never ever use a +10 atk sword when you already have a +30 atk one, that's a fucking fact.

I only use gear that looks cool to me. I'm the kind of person to use Steel weapons while I am level 60 in Skyrim.

I want to find what weapons I like and I want to keep them. I don't want to fucking lose them

>>375992309
>maybe you think the durability should have been harsher so you'd NEED to keep replacing weapons lategame?
sounds like a good way to downright ruin the game

>>375992194
>">when I become bored
that's not how you fucking design a game,"
that's how he plays it, apparently.

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So /v/ you think you're hot shit at game design huh
well riddle me this

How could Nintendo have fixed the problem of the game having too low enemy variety and add in lots of small environmental hazards like deku babas and wallmasters like old zelda games
While at the same time making it work with the durability system so players wouldn't feel like they're wasting their weapons on enemies who don't give any weapons back in return?

>>375992548
Easy. Increase weapon durability by 60% as it should have been done from the beginning.

I think your right about why they chose to have low enemy variety though, which makes me hate Nintendo even more.

>>375992548
Every type of enemy has a set value on breaking your weapon. If you kill an easy worthless enemy, your weapon will only take a tiny bit of damage.
Or, alternately, every time you strike an enemy, ANY enemy, it will take away a certain amount of HP from your weapon.

>>375989638
BOTW should be number one

>>375993327
Reasoning behind the alternative is that weak or worthless enemies would probably only take one or two hits anyways.

>>375993381
>directional swinging removed
>you can just spam attacks on any enemy to autowin the fight while stunlocking him

Ocarina of Time teaches you not to spam like a retard before you even finish the deku tree tutorial. You run up to a skulltula, hit it like a retard, it swings and knocks you flat on your ass
then later on in the game to hurt stalfos you need to wait for them to attack and counterattack or swing around their shield

meanwhile in breath of the wild, just spam attack relentlessly and everything that isn't a lynel dies

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How open door

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>>375993693
think about it for more than 5 seconds

webm unrelated, is an amputee skywatcher fighting a talus

A botw style windwaker would be perfect. Less ocean, more fragmented continents and it's perfect

>>375993774
>>375993821
>thread so dead a full day passes between posts

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Don't get me wrong, I love Meadows and mountains, campfires and forests. But sailing across a vast uncharted sea in your own boat provides a different kind of adventurous feeling. It's why I have always wanted a proper sequel to windwaker, with an older link and much much bigger islands.

BoTW's art style and engine set in a Great Sea environment would be fucking amazing.

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>>375993774
Is it connected to a shrine quest? cause none of my items or actions do anything.

>>375994702
look at your surroundings

>>375994314
>Great Sea filled with gigantic islands the size of a BOTW map area instead of tiny little block islands

>Unlock bird flight as a faster travel option later in the game

>>375994702
go up the hill and roll down a snowball.

>>375987390
I was thinking about this, vah medoh really is the worst dungeon in the series.

>>375994938
Maybe a few islands that large, but I was thinking more like outset-island size for your average "small" island (there could be smaller ones too, of course) and great plateau size for the average bigger islands. This way each island is sizable and worth exploring, and they could put in a lot of them.

>>375995027
>>375987390
how can you shits actually dislike vah medoh? its the best skybox, best 'control the entire divine beast' mechanic with the tilting

yeah its smaller than the others and shorter, but thats just because its condensed awesome

>>375983709
at least wind waker had dungeons you bandwagon retard

>>375995152
You only need to tilt it twice

It's piss-easy. Tilt, glide, and use magnesis twice and stasis once. Boom, dungeon done.

>>375995152
>condensed awesome

It's piss easy, there's like one fucking enemy and it's literally about 10 minutes long. About half of it's size is a boss arena that doesn't even use all that space and dies so fast. It's shit.

So is there really no one in this thread who likes both games or are we just pretending to strongly dislike one game because /v/ mentality compels us to mindlessly shitpost?

They're both great games that departed from the usual formula. Wind Waker less so, but at least it played around with the idea of focusing more on the overworld.

>>375995418
Wind waker is garbage for literal babbys.

>>375995418
BOTW is the worst of open world with a zelda skin and praised as the next coming of gaming jesus
It deserves all the shit it gets.

>>375995320
none of the dungeons have any enemies worth noting
you can be 200 hours into the game and fight some 30 hp guardian scout I's that deal 0.25 hearts and die in 1 hit and take 20 seconds to attack, and the malice / cursed heads don't get me started

>>375995418
100% of /v/ hated windwaker
50% of /v/ hates botw and the other 50% loves botw
hence half the people hate one game or the other and the other half hate both games

>>375995717
Vah medoh has one crappy mini guardiam that dies in two hits, so you can't say it has no enemies, there's that one.

>>375995418
I love both. I'm playing through twilight princess right now and it's medicore. I liked ocarina a lot, couldn't get into majoras mask though. Never played skyward sword.

Call me a pleb if you must.

>>375995818
it has several malice mouths

>>375995889
>Several
There's 3 of them. One arrow and they're gone. They suck. Not even worth it as a pushover.

>>375995818
I'm convinced it was supposed to be the "first" dungeon, but the story makes you go to the opposite side of the map so most people do the Zora one first, which is also pretty simple

>>375996006
so
point was ALL the dungeons lack enemies

the large shrines like trial of power have more enemies than any of the actual dungeons
only hyrule castle has proper zelda dungeon enemies and it lacks objectives

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I thrive off of the daily butt-hurt threads about zelda here

Both games are pretty easy, especially the more you play them(especially the more hearts you get)

Good games don't have to be hard

I mostly play zelda when I want to relax, not when I'm looking for a challenge.
Both do that almost perfectly

Have nintnedofags woke up? Can I say the truth now?

This game wasn't very good and did Zelda shit poorly. The menus were garbage, the world was largely empty and repetitive. Even through that with real dungeons it would have been the best Zelda ever buuut shrines and divine beasts...

It's more of a tech demo than a game.

Only really good thing was statis.

>>375996032
Vah Rutah took me around 40 minutes, it was pleasureable for my first dungeon in the game. The questline that leads into it was very involving as well. Medoh was second for me and it was just so bad. The questline sucked too.

>>375983709
wind waker was better because it was actually a Zelda game and not Nintendo's "new" spin on a modern game style

My only gripe with BOTW is the divine beasts.

They're all very short and they all look the same on the inside. It doesn't help that there's only four them.

Majora's Mask had mini dungeons before the actual dungeons that were longer and more satisfying than the divine beasts.

>>375996117
no they really aren't

BotW was a good game. It was a 10/10 compared to the other shit games we're used to dealing with, but its only a 7/10 compared to what it COULD have been with more effort

Wind waker was a 5/10 game by a normal metric and a 1/10 game compared to what BotW COULD have been

>>375996372
well duh this game isn't a dungeon crawler
every other zelda was a dungeon crawler
this isn't every other zelda, its its own thing

you want a dungeon crawler? go play ocarina of time. great dungeons there
this is an overworld game with minidungeons like portal, theres only a single "dungeon" in the whole game

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>>375995119
As long as we don't get islands the size of Windwaker's ridiculous filler islands

>>375996516
The copy-paste reefs are the best.

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>>375996516
at least that island has a gimmick and something unique
40% of the game were copy pasted reefs, fairy islands, triangle islands and completely empty archipelagoes

>>375996379
decent point, but remember WW was a way older game made by probably mostly different people.

WW had to be made in order for BotW to be made, and the next zelda game, which will probably continue to get made better(hopefully)

>>375996435
Not same guy, but I miss good dungeon crawlers. They lose the magic after the first run through though

I liked BotW though, just didnt scratch the same itch

>>375996435
>like portal

This is actually a pretty good comparison.

Going out on a limb here but i bet what happened was that Dungeons were developed last and had to get cut back due to the Switch porting effort and launch deadline

It would be tough to make a really satisfying unique dungeon area on a tight deadline, let alone 4 of them

Tbqh though they could have just slapped 4-5 unique shrines on top of eachother and gave it a different color at least

>>375996318
Shooting 10 targets or whatever isn't a quest line. The rito and gorons definitely got the short end of the stick in this game.

>>375996435
I guess I can agree with you there. Hyrule Castle is incredibly satisfying to run through and explore. It's the only place that really does feel like a classic zelda dungeon with the exception of there being no puzzles.

Again, not saying the game is bad. My only gripe is the divine beasts. Literally everything else about the game is perfect.

>>375996516
Definitely not. Windwaker would be perfect to me if it weren't for the disappointing, tiny ass islands. I didn't sail miles of sea just to discover a tiny rock with a hole on it.

>>375996918
I don't think that's what happened, i just think they wanted to make giant moving shadow of the colossus esque "dungeons" but then they realized they would have to be pretty small but went with it anyways

>>375983928
Well, you called it.

As usual, FPBP.

>>375993574
False. You spam, you die. Being on the Great Plateau should have taught you this, considering you can get oneshot by Blue Bokos. This post is full of shit.

>>375983709
this s a stupid discussion, and you're an idiot.
Wind waker is what wind waker should have been.
breath of the wild is a different game, god damn. why does everyone gotta be so autistic

>>375997214
Not true. Go test it yourself with a silver bokoblin and the master sword. If you don't Z-target him, you can just run in circles and hit him until he gets knocked over. Repeat.

>>375997347
Glad somebody said it. Besides, the re-release fixed almost all of the problems the game had first

>optional harder mode
>optional faster sailing
>fixing final fetch quest to make much more tolerable

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I love coming on here every day just to see what desperate new attempt /v/ can come up with to try and topple BotW.

Today, it's 'Wind Waker did everything better.'

I'm already looking forward to tomorrow.

>>375998053

But Wind Waker did everything worse. Well, except story and artstyle anyways.

>>375998053
Have they tried using the Oracle games yet? That topic could have some fun banter.

>>375983709
>>376000000