So since I know some of you tards think the trinity should be

It's never been a trinity, but a pentagon consisting of dps/tank/healer/(de)buff/crowd control. GW2 does prove that making everyone dps is total ass though.

>>375889058
All stealth rogue pvp

>>375889312
Tanks CC and healers buff and debuff.

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Replace it by make mom's that arnt rpegs

>>375889058

>that feel when buffers and debuffers have been constantly removed from MMOs for years now

Rift was the last MMO to give a shit about it.

I wouldnt replace it.

I'd maybe add a curse/buff class that doesnt heal and does garbage dps (also controls a pet) that can buff your party and debuff the boss

>>375889058
Asheron's Call and City of Heroes were great examples of MMOs without the trinity.

>>375889580
explain

Make it a Star of David consisting of Tank, DPS, Healer, Buffs and Debuffs, Crowd Control, and Summons.
There is some overlap between some of them, Summon/DPS and Summon/Tank for example, Buff/Debuff Healer and Tank, Crowd Control DPS and Healer.

>>375889547
It's difficult to implement that with most modern MMOs, which can be played largely solo. I'd like to see this implemented in a game where you need other players for even the average quests, just to see how a team-focused MMO would do these days.
If that's already a thing, please enlighten me.

>>375889580

Asheron's Call everyone was self sufficient because there was no classes. You could spec into life magic (which was insanely strong even offensively) or just use med-kits which had it's own skill and basically healed you to full in the span of seconds if you didn't fumble. You could still be overwhelmed in a lot of instances and you'd just need more self sufficient people to push forward and deal with mobs.

City of Heroes did have the defender class for healing/buffing but wasn't needed. You could make a team of anything and be fine because if you didn't have healing you had mob controllers/debuffers or a group full of tanks, melee damage/self healers, and/or massive range damage/kiting.

>>375889912
old school FFXI. It's dead now though.

>>375890142
>you'd just need more self sufficient people to push forward and deal with mobs
So then no one's supporting each other, they're just all doing their own thing independent of each other?

>>375890420
Basically, the most support you'd usually see would be from added damage or maybe if someone was spec'd really high into item magic/enchanting they'd buff teammate's armor and weapons. It actually worked out really well.

>>375889580
I only played city of heroes at a babby level, how did it avoid the trinity without having the problems G2G has?

>>375891095

A lot of what made CoH good was the huge groups of enemies you'd be taking on at later levels. Tougher fights would require some coordination but could be done in multiple ways depending on what classes you had in your party. Most dangerous part of fights was the very start as if you didn't have a Tank or Scrapper hero - if you didn't have someone to absorb 'alpha strikes' you needed a controllers or illusionist to debuff/blind/entangle first thing so your squishy team didn't die instantly. You could also use pets from the pet classes (mastermind and controller) to absorb these alpha strikes. After that, mob damage can usually be managed without a healer and even a dedicated tank.

>>375891095
Strong, meaningful debuffs/buffs and controlling roles.
No crap like +5 health or -2% damage taken 30% of the time

>>375889912
I mainly got the idea from pefrect world. Theres a class called a foxmancer or something like that. It does decent damage and focuses mainly on poisoning/debuffing and buffing.

>>375892220
I actually know exactly what you're talking about, I was pretty shit with that class. It was an interesting combination class, I quite enjoyed it.

>>375889058
>MMOs have never existed without the trinity
18 and older, faggot.

>In Vas Mani

>>375893105

Even in Everquest and Ragnarok Online, the trinity has already existed.

>>375893516
This is bait, right?

>>375893516

In iRO a full support priest was a tank. 99 vit.

>>375889058
Lore/setting based classes obviously
The trinity is the result of designing classes around mechanics, and very pedestrian ones i might add.

>>375893941
Call a tank "priest" and it doesn't make a difference. The role is still there.

>>375894010

Especially when its just a secondary role. The main rank class in ro was the crusader.

The problem with trying to discuss anything about mmo design is that the topic has been irreparably tainted by faggots who's first mmo was wow and cannot even conceive that it's possible for mmos to not just be the same as wow. On that note, GW2 is a better game than any wow clone, not that that's saying much.

>>375893516
Ragnarok Online is more like Guild Wars 2 in that some classes could Solo MVPs.

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Replace it with this holy trinity.

This is not a roll game, it's a list of classes. Don't be a dick.

>>375893516
>RO
>Trinity
Even for bossfights you were better off just picking nukers or speccing into bosskiller builds. Even in large-scale party battles, you were better just using killer classes. Even healers were built to cause tremendous damage. You can imply that the trinity existed, but it was relatively pointless.

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>>375894320
>This is not a roll game

Go back to the old Everquest system of every class bringing useful utilities to the group that aren't necessarily tanking healing or damaging.

Back then you might just bring someone to your dungeon group just because they have a spell that makes things easier not because they fit into this predefined group structure.

People have been looking at the trinity the wrong way forever.

The original "holy trinity" was Everquest's Warrior, Cleric, Enchanter. It was never a means of separating classes into archetypes. It was meant to be a list of things required for a group to accomplish the toughest content. Dont make the game around the trinity, just make classes that do what they were designed to do, and it will go from there.

>>375894530
addendum: it was also highly criticized in EQ because Warrior was better than the other tanks, Cleric (at the time) was a million times better than any other healing class, and enchanters only had bards as an alternative, who were not as good at their job. If anything, the "Holy Trinity" was an attempt by players to criticize bad class design.

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>>375889058

Something like Monster Hunter or PSO has always been my favorite way.
You're generally there to bring the pain still, but limited item use and customizable skills or spells help to branch out and let you bring your best to the table for that moment.
Static roles are just too boring to me now I guess.

>>375894320
TOO LATE FAG!

>>375894960
Instanced dungeon runners like PSO/MH/Toukiden/FW/etc. are immensely superior to MMO's in every respect. Even if it's all """DPS""", you're capable of usually supporting the team in alternative manners. The only reason why "DPS" is even a title here is because Tanks and Healers are literally worthless classes unless the boss you are fighting has such a retarded damage output that it autokills anybody who isn't stacked with ten buffs every possible second, has a singular, targeted, undodgeable attack, and doesn't have AI smart enough to deal with those garbage "Rage meters".