>unfinished >devoid of the humor that made the first one

Your parents did far worse.

Nice b8, m8

>>375830538
I love obsidian but theyve alwayd made horribly broken games. Both in balancing and in bugs. Kotor 1 was not very difficult but force storm in 2 was horribly overpowered. Without the rcm the game is utter fucking shit and i think most people who like Kotor 2 include the mod in their ranking.

>devoid of the humor that made the first one great

Did you even play the same game as me? The humour in 1 is mostly pretty juvenile and terrible.

2 has some pretty funny jokes. Anything T3 is god tier.

>>375830538
>one line of conversation about revan in the prologue
>op thinks this means the whole game talks about revan

>game objectively has a nonlinear structure
>you can do the planets in any order
>the order you choose changes things
>op didnt even get far enough to get off telos

This is bait or advanced retardation

Obsidian going full fedora writing and ended with a convolued clusterfuck.

Kreia was a mistake. I think it's hilarious that a cartoon villain, maniacal laugh and everything, like Malak served for a more satisfying plot.

>>375830538
>linear

wait, what?

>>375830538
It's the Empire Strikes Back of an unfinished trilogy.

>>375833783
unfortunately it's not unfinished any more...

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>>375830538
Still better than the retconned mess TOR was

>>375834470
thats probably my favorite part of SWTOR

Bioware btfoing kotor2fags

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Educate yourself OP

>>375834795
>Kreia hates the force and the people depending on it
>literally depends of on the force connection with Meetra
>literally flying lightsaber: the boss battle

truly great writing
topkek

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>>375830538
>>devoid of the humor that made the first one great
>>375833584
>Kreia was a mistake
>>375834560
>my favorite part of SWTOR

Jesus Christ.

>>375834965
>if you use something it automatically means you are addicted to it and depend on it.
Good job.

>>375835336
she was dependant on it in both scenarios
>kotor2fags literally need spoonfeeding
trully great minds

>>375834965
She even flags that up herself and labels herself a dependent addict and hypocrite.

You're not smart for noticing. She isn't a Mary Sue.

>>375830538
We've been discussing and answering this question for 13 years now. There are archives of thousands if not more conversations and analyses of what went wrong. Why couldn't you not just go look one of those up and not bother us with this again?

youre not allowed to say bad things about obshitian

>>375835485
I'm the first one to jerk off Kotor 2, I fucking hate modern obsidian and obsidiots.

>>375834470
Kotor 2 retconned almost everything we knew about Revan in the first game. Besides, Kreia, Nihilus and Sion are fanfic-tier written characters for the story that takes itself too seriously.

>>375835568
>Kotor 2 retconned almost everything we knew about Revan in the first game.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>375833584
>MUH PLOT

>>375835568
You don't know the meaning of the word retcon do you?

>>375834965
She touches upon this exact subject after you beat her

>>375833584
I hate all the Obsidian circlejerking that goes on on /v/.
Its always the same shit, the game is rushed, half finished and buggy. Then /v/ goes on to masturbate over what a masterpiece their games are and when these issues are pointed out its always.
>b-but the game was rushed or it would be better!
All games have cut content to leave before the deadline, Obsidian is just the worst at managing their time and end up sending out a broken game.

>>375835568
>Kotor 2 retconned almost everything we knew about Revan in the first game

Revan was a blank slate character in 1 and nobody gave a shit about him.

When 2 came around, he was basically turned into the ultimate Mary Sue character and power in the universe. Everything that modern Revan is and his entire reputation is solely reliant on KOTOR 2's "retcons" as you put them.

They aren't retcons since there wasn't fuck all there to begin with. He was just a Sith who got BTFO by Malak. KOTOR 2 turned him into a hero who tried to reunite the Galaxy to fight against the True Sith.

>>375835802
nope
the credits start rolling after you beat her

>sequel
>WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT THE PREVIOUS GAME REE E E

>>375834470
TOR is a mess. Everything about it is a disgrace.

>Why are the imperials cheap copycats of the imperials from the movies?

>Why do the republic troopers look like clone troopers?

>Why are lightsabers so fucking easy to obtain?

>Why do the astromech droids look like fisher price toys?

>Why is Revan so fucking easy to defeat?

>everything in KotFE

>>375835893
I do too, Obsidian is a fucking mess and I don't touch their modern games because they've lost all redeeming qualities they once had. That said anyone that doesn't like kotor 2's story while jerking off kotor is as stupid as people jerking off pillars of eternity as far as I'm concerned, and couldn't give a shit less about their opinion.

>>375836118
That's only if you kill her instead of asking her questions
https://youtu.be/N0SI8Z6lpiw

>>375836220
>Where was Nihilus, Krea and Sion the pussy trio are absent when Revan was in the known galaxy?
>Why is Nihilus a dumb mute autist?
>Why is Sion a shitty Bane copy?
>Why does it take 15 planets visited to get a lightsaber in an era where there were thousands of jedi and plenty of resources for a lightsaber?
>Why is the game talking about characters from KOTOR1 all the way through?
>Why cant Obsidian finish a game?
>Why cant Obsidian do Star Wars right?
>everything in KOTOR2

DUDE NIHILUS
EATS PLANETS LMAO
TOTALLY PUSSIED OUT WHEN REVAN WAS FIGHTING AND SHIT

truly the strongest sith lord of them all kek

>devoid of the humor that made the first one great

The droids didn't start being funny until the second game. The only funny aspect of the first game was Bindo and he was just whimsical at best.

>>375836707
>this fucking triggered that someone is criticizing TOR

I can't believe myself, but it looks like we have a TORbaby amongst us.

>>375836707
>Where was Nihilus

Hiding the shadows I believe.

>Krea

In exile after the disgrace of Revan in the Mandalorian Wars.

>Sion

Fighting for the Sith.

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>>375830538
A full lowercase child wouldn't recognize a great game.

>>375830538
>devoid of the humor that made the first one great

HAHA IM EVIL SO ILL TAKE YOUR LUNCH MONEY LMAO

>unfinished
>unpolished
Good thing patches exist and nowadays getting KOTOR 2 to work is much easier than with the first one, and it runs seamlessly.

>>375836851
>making up dumb question trying to criticize SWTOR because it triggers him
>then gets even more triggered when KOTOR2 flaws are pointed out

topkek
>>375836998
more like
>all were hiding the shadows like the pussies are they

The great Avellone couldnt even make it any sense that they existed at all

Bioware has never been good. Literally every single game they made has been nothing but a foundation for other developers to actually make a good game on.

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>>375837181
>hes actually a TORbaby

I thought maybe you were just shitposting and were gonna prove me wrong. But holy shit. How can you LIKE that garbage?

>>375837231
except Bioware managed to create good games
meanwhile Obsidian manged to create 1 good mod thats NV in their entire career

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>>375836780
>. The only funny aspect of the first game was Bindo

Really? You didn't find Bastillas tantrums to be even slightly amusing? Shit was cute

>>375837348
>hes actually a KOTOR2fag

I thought maybe you were just shitposting and were gonna prove me wrong. But holy shit. How can you LIKE that garbage?

>>375837348
DUDE YEAH SWTOR IS SHIT

HAHA TORTANIC LMAOXD
EPIC MEMES MY MAAN

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>>375837481
>>375837734
>people defending TOR ITT

This cannot be possible. Please tell me im falling for some bait or something.

>>375837734
>shitposting instead of saying the positives of TOR
You're just proving his point

>>375837393
>except Bioware managed to create good games
You're right, I forgot they made MDK2. Everything else has been garbage RPGs where other developers had to salvage game systems to put together a good game.

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Daily reminder that KoToR is for low IQ basement dwellers and KoToR2 is superior in every way.

>>375836998
>Nihilus
>Hiding the shadows I believe
It is hinted that he is was one of the jedi who died during Malachor battle but somehow survived and got magical powers to eat planets.
>Sion
>Fighting for the Sith
there is absolutely nothing known about Sion except for the fact that he is so butthurt that dark side is holding his body together
>>375835951
Kotor 1 established that Revan and Malak were heroes who fell to the dark side after Mandalorian Wars. Kotor 2 turned them into evil faggots who used conflict to turn jedi to dark side. Also he didn't try to unite the galaxy, he just told Bastila and Carth to keep republic safe and fucked off.

>>375836707

KoTOR 2 is essentially refuting KoTOR 1's intellectual ideas. You know that conversation you have with Jolee Bindo about destiny? That's what Kreia is on about.

As for Nihilus? He's a pathetic slave to the Force, sacrificing everything in the pursuit of a hollow (and ultimately worthless) power. What use is the ability to kill planets when you keep having to fucking do it or die?

As for Scion, he's an ambulatory corpse who only knows how to fight things. He's completely incapable of doing anything else, and again, he's a completely pathetic "Sith Lord". You aren't supposed to be wanking over their "power levels" - they're what happens when you fundamentally misunderstand power, the Force, and throw away all the things that are worth having for a dependence on the Force.

"The Force is my ally" vs. "The Force is my heroin".

As for WHERE Kreia, Scion, and Nihilus were? Probably hiding, a splinter group of the Jedi who went to war. It wasn't until after Revan got through wrecking everything that it was safe to come out of hiding, and by then they'd royally screwed the pooch.

As for why they couldn't complete it?

>Development begins October 2003
>Intended release sometime 2005
>Released December 2004

KoTOR 1

>Development begins in July 2000
>Released July 2003

KoTOR 2 is a mess, I agree. It's not as great as its fanboys claim. It's not better than KoTOR 1. But let's not kid ourselves, there was good material there, and Lucasarts fucked them over by changing the deadline.

>>375838629
>KoTOR 2 is a mess
It's really not unless you are playing it straight out of the box on release state. The Steam version has a patch that makes it run much better than KOTOR 1 ever did.

>>375830538
>devoid of the humor that made the first one great
The first one barely had any humor, it was all your assassin droid and that alone didn't make KOTOR great, what made KOTOR great was nothing, because it wasn't. It was a mediocre tactical RPG with a decent battle system mechanic that went underutilized, mostly crap writing, some annoying characters mostly, and light sabers.
The reason people liked it was because they suck Star Wars dick. The same reason they suck the movies dicks even though they really aren't good movies anyway.

>>375838901

I hate to do this, but even with the patches and the restored content mod, the game lacks a real ending. You get some more dialogue options with Kreia, and there's a couple of scenes of your party members, but... It's not enough.

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>>375838978

>>375831809
>Kotor 1 was not very difficult
Trivial, you mean?

>>375838596
I thought they fell -during- the Mandalorian wars. They started off well-intentioned but by the time they came to Malachor V they were far gone already. Because their lack of restraint in going to war ultimately also turned out to be a lack of restraint when it came to resorting to the Dark Side.

>>375837426
I thought Bastila was insanely annoying, her character's assessment by HK-47 in 2 is on point.

>>375839137
Why isn't it enough? What would you have in mind for the ending?

>>375830538
>unpolished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DtVBD6W5_A

>>375838596
>Kotor 1 established that Revan and Malak were heroes who fell to the dark side after Mandalorian Wars. Kotor 2 turned them into evil faggots who used conflict to turn jedi to dark side. Also he didn't try to unite the galaxy, he just told Bastila and Carth to keep republic safe and fucked off.

You missed the entire point of the game's depiction of Revan. It constantly talks about how Revan selectively chose targets that would ensure that Republic infrastructure would survive so it could be used against the True Sith.

>Also he didn't try to unite the galaxy,

KOTOR 2 makes clear that is the entire reason the Jedi Civil War even came about. It was only Malak being a retarded LARPer and taking shit seriously that ruined everything. Malak was a tosspot who didn't have Revan's vision.

>he just told Bastila and Carth to keep republic safe and fucked off.

That was later. He went off to go and fight the True Sith alone, since he didn't want his friends to suffer.

>there is absolutely nothing known about Sion except for the fact that he is so butthurt that dark side is holding his body together

He was a Sith that fought under Exar Kun, and is explicitly said to have witnessed the fall of Korriban in the Sith Civil War.

>It is hinted that he is was one of the jedi who died during Malachor battle but somehow survived and got magical powers to eat planets.

Yeah that's true, but that was 5 years earlier than KOTOR 1. During the events of KOTOR he was likely fighting alongside the Sith or just waiting on the sidelines soaking up the chaos and bloodlust, gradually gaining in power until he becomes the existential threat that he represents during KOTOR 2.

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what would have Kotor2 been if they had had that extra year of dev time that it actually needed?

>>375840082
After Mandalorian Wars Revan and Malak decided to find who was behind mandalorians and found Sith Empire.

>>375839137
>the game lacks a real ending
The whole cast of the game standing on a big ceremony and receiving medals, a-la A New Hope? It was never supposed to end like that. It was supposed to be ESB to 1's ANH, bridging it to eventual RotJ, which is, well, TOR.

>>375840687
The best Star Wars game.

>>375839137
>the game lacks a real ending

I've never understood this meme. An absolute shit ton of loose ends are sown up. The Exile fulfils their final destiny by getting Kreia's blessing and going into unknown space after Revan to fight the true Sith.

>it's a guy shits over kotor 2 because he couldn't understand it as a child, while the twist in kotor 1 blew his mind episode

People were admitting this in a recent thread on the game, so don't try to deny it

>>375840441

I can't give you a roadmap for a "perfect ending" - primarily because you fight Nihilus, and then the game rushes to the end as fast as it reasonably can. If they hadn't been as ambitious, and hadn't had the time constraint, then we might have gotten something that was magnificent.

As it is, KoTOR 2 has some interesting ideas, but it falls apart 3/4 of the way through.

>>375840913

That's not at all what I was suggesting. Without the restored content mod, you either get a conversation with Kreia and then a video pulling away from Malachor V, or you just kill her and get the same video.

Your party is missing. The Ebon Hawk is smashed. If a sequel was intended, a little setup would have been appreciated.

>>375841256
I never played with restored content, actually. Yeah, the party missing is a bit of a bummer but doesn't the patch restore some of that, anyway? You complained that ending is bad even without it.

>>375830538
>devoid of the humor that made the first one great
I admit there were some chuckles in KOTOR but what humor carried anything? I guess if you count Malak's 80s saturday morning cartoon villain characterization as hilariously sad, we can agree.

I honestly don't know why people are obsessed with ranking these two games and pitting them against each other.

They compliment each other well.

Is it normal to not being able to move your character after combat? I have V-sync turned on.

>>375841460
fanboyism and the need to one up someone every day. Also ravenous attention seeking anonymous or otherwise.

Most of us are guilty

>>375841460
>They compliment each other well.
Not really. They follow much different philosophies. It's like DMC1 to DMC2

>>375830538
>first one
>great
Now that is some good humor right there.

>>375830538
Yeah but it has G0-T0

>>375830538
(You)

>>375841957
That's exactly why they compliment each other though. They're two completely different takes on a somewhat similar story.

2 is the perfect antithesis to the first game

Kotor 1 felt like fun adventure true SW game
Kotor 2 Everyone is crawling in my skin

>>375841145
>>375841379

It's entirely possible I am misremembering. It's been better than half a decade since I last played KoTOR 2 (and that last time I did so with the restored content mod).

I'm currently replaying KoTOR 1 on my Kindle (which is great, except the touch interface is shit for the turret sections, and completely unplayable for the swoop races).

I'll give KoTOR 2 another playthrough with and without the restored content mod. It's about time I did that anyway.

>>375842924
You're remembering it correctly, the thing is, the ending conversation with Kreia is pretty great and answers a lot of stuff. You do get no info about your followers, though, which kind of sucks.
>Kindle
I thought those were advertised as "e-books only, no bullshit".

>>375843060

It's a Kindle Fire, so it's more of a tablet computer rather than just e-books. I probably should have mentioned that.

I did install KoTOR 1 on my laptop, and I intend to replay it on PC too (but, frankly, I'm going to cheat - I'm not interested in builds this time around. I just want to buy everything and fight dark Jedi).

No credit in this thread for the horror movie mining station first act? You're all heartless.

The first one is basically A New Hope if you go light side, or hilarious due to the sheer edginess you can be. Other than that there's really no humor apart from HK. I'd agree they left 2 unfinished/unpolished though. the restored content mod (sans that extra planet submod) is essential for 2.
That and keep in mind kotor one can be a pain in the ass to get to run even remotely smoothly, whereas 2 pretty much runs with no compatibility trouble. So I imagine more people are exposed for 2. Especially as it's famous for its "gray" plot

>>375840667
>It constantly talks about how Revan selectively chose targets that would ensure that Republic infrastructure would survive so it could be used against the True Sith.
So he turned to the dark side but not really, and he fought the republic but not really. How does that make any sence? Did he somehow managed to avoid dark side corruption? Why not just stay with the republic?
>It was only Malak being a retarded LARPer and taking shit seriously that ruined everything. Malak was a tosspot who didn't have Revan's vision.
This is an incredible asspull cosidering that no character could have known what went Revan's and Malak's mind.
>He went off to go and fight the True Sith alone, since he didn't want his friends to suffer.
He fucked up once and almost destroyed the republic not really, apparently, so he decided to do it once again? That makes him look straight up retarded.
>He was a Sith that fought under Exar Kun, and is explicitly said to have witnessed the fall of Korriban in the Sith Civil War.
That isn't adding anything to his character, apart from establishing that dark side kept him alive for hundreds of years. He is still one-dimensional villain with motivation "I want to kill ALL the jedi because revenge". What happens if he succeeds? His body will just fall apart because it has no reason to exist?
>During the events of KOTOR he was likely fighting alongside the Sith or just waiting on the sidelines soaking up the chaos and bloodlust, gradually gaining in power until he becomes the existential threat that he represents during KOTOR 2.
Kreia said that she found Nihilus on Malachor. She apparenty taught him how to consume the force and he was so good at it that he could eat entire planets.

>>375830538
I agree with you, but it's just one of those things that we'll have to be the minority on. It completely botches what people like about Star Wars, but it's great for people who don't particularly care about Star Wars.

>>375843350
Pretty strange how so many people managed not to instantly drop the game in the middle of its first act. Damn that shit was tedious

>>375843350

I like it, but it can be fatiguing when you've replayed the game a bunch of times and you know Telos is coming up. Telos is agonizing.

>>375840687
Still unfinished. Obsidian gonna obsidian.

>>375843463

Well, on your point about Revan "not really turning to the Dark Side", it was established in KoTOR 1 (by everyone generally, and Canderous in particular) that Revan was a military genius. Would that have changed so much after falling to the Dark Side that he'd go full retard and destroy the Republic when his ultimate goal was to fight and destroy the True Sith?

Malak is a Saturday morning cartoon villain. He clearly has no plan other than "conquer the galaxy!" in KoTOR 1. That, and he has terrible fashion sense. Orange long underwear and a cape? Really?

Thinking Kotor 2 is better than Kotor 1 is the stance of contrarians with abysmal taste.

Kotor 2 was buggier
had an abysmal opening level that lasted like 3 hours and was very boring and buggy and much worse than the opening 3 hours of game play of KOTOR
Kotor 2 had a worse, less cinematic, less enjoyable storyline compared to KOTOR
The last level of Kotor 2 was unfinished and made no fucking sense at all. "hurr the jedi are almost all wiped out, and there are only 3 sith left... oh wait here's a temple on some planet with like a hundred sith mooks for you to fight". Compare that the the polished, climactic , cinematic final level of KOTOR. plus Kotor had an actual ending whereas KOTOR 2 had "blargh you have defeated me, darth kreia, but if you'd like , come talk to me and I'll tell you what happens in teh future to each of your companions before I die" then the game just ends.
-the story was also shit. you spend the game gathering 6 jedi masters and we're expected to buy that Kreia can kill them all at once in one second with force lightening. Garbage writing.

People try to tell themselves that KOTOR 2 was better for the sole reason that they think Kreia makes the story so sophisticated and mature and so saying that they like it more than KOTOR makes them feel pleased with themselves. in reality it is just worse in every way and pretending it is better is just a contrariian edgekid opinion

>>375844232
>Kreia can kill them all at once in one second with force lightening
that's not force lightning...

>>375844232
I can't stand these fucking bugs in Kotor 2. It's ruining the game for me having to save and reload every 10 seconds.

>>375842475
exactly.

in KOTOR you're given the pretty unmatched experience of playing and experiencing a true star wars adventure for yourself.

in KOTOR 2 you get the impression the creators said to themselves "the force? light side and dark side? that shit is Laaame. we're going to make something really hard hitting and dark and ambiguous which makes it mature and cool"

>>375844016
>Would that have changed so much after falling to the Dark Side that he'd go full retard and destroy the Republic when his ultimate goal was to fight and destroy the True Sith?
Have you considered the possibility that a jedi who couldn't restrain himself from going to war with Mandalorians wouldn't be able to resist the dark side corruption apparently by Sith Emperor himself?

>>375844232

>Kotor 2 was buggier

Objectively true.

>had an abysmal opening level

Not much worse, if at all, than Taris.

>Kotor 2 had a worse, less cinematic, less enjoyable storyline compared to KOTOR

If by cinematic, you mean written like Lucas's childish movies with black and white everything then sure. You just have shit taste though.

>The last level of Kotor 2 was unfinished and made no fucking sense at all.

Yes, the final battle is very rushed and doesn't pace well with what leads up to it. Can't argue against you here.

>the story was also shit

It's 3 Jedi Masters, not 6. 4 originally. Kreia doesn't kill them with force lightning, she removes their ability to use the Force which is worse and has a lot to do with the writing if you paid attention. One of the largest themes of the game is how dependent Force users are on it and it makes them weaker as human beings. How the fuck is this bad writing?

>>375844553

So... falling to the Dark Side is full retard mode that completely changes a person? Glad we cleared that up. At least it's consistent with the movies.

>>375844797
It is established in both games that
>falling to the Dark Side is full retard mode that completely changes a person
both narratively and through gameplay

>>375844641
>I sneer at adventure and romance which is why I prefer kotor 2.

says a lot

>>375833242
Look at Sleeps-With-Vibroblades over here

>>375842475
It's pretty fucking sad if characters having an ounce of introspection makes it 'not muh star wars'

>>375844016
>Kotor 2 was buggier
No one cares, patches exist.
>had an abysmal opening level
Peragus was awesome you pleb. Now Telos really is nothing special and kind of boring, but on the other hand Taris was just as meh as Telos anyway.
>Kotor 2 had a worse, less cinematic, less enjoyable storyline
It was an original and well-crafted deconstruction of Star Wars tropes versus an OK but cliché story revolving around a tired twist.

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>ITT people defending TOR, biodrones, Disneyfags

>>375845038
>>375845038

>expanded Force powers and gameplay elements
>more effects both in-game and cosmetic with Light and Dark Side alignments
>better written storyline that reflects the moral ambiguity of real life
>actual villains

Who are you quoting?

>>375845232
Where are these patches.

>>375845497
A fresh install of KOTOR 2 from Steam runs seamlessly on modern systems. Trying to get the first game to run in widescreen is a huge pain in the ass.

>>375845232
>No one cares, patches exist.
No one cares, people already played the game 10 years ago and it was a buggy piece of shit.

You don't get a consolation prize for having fans fix your game for you a decade later

>>375845648
There are still bugs though.

>>375845038
>I need everything as shallow as possible so I can understand romance and adventure in there

Says a lot

>>375845497
kotor 2 literally got a new patch like 2 years ago

Funnily enough, kotor 2 runs much better than kotor 1 now

So it's funny that people are still obsessed with the release versions of these games

>>375845282
Quoting the part where you sneered at adventure and romance

>>375845728
Why do you keep moving the goalpost?

>>375845730
When I played KotOR 1 I got the bug where the game would crash after I returned to Hidden Bek base with the swoop bike detail, so basically right before you flee Taris. I had to replay the entirety of Taris.

KotOR 2 was smooth, didn't even use fan patch. I'm not saying it's bugless, just saying 1 isn't some kind of masterpiece in that regard. Well, in any regard, really.

>>375845243
More like
>daily thread where kotor2fags are defending deeply flawed plot of kotor2

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>echoes
>echoes
>echoes
what did she mean by this?

>>375845730
I had zero bugs when I played KOTOR 2 unless you count occasional frame drops in some areas but that's likely because of the dated engine. KOTOR 1 on the other hand can't even run cutscenes properly.

>>375845728
I'm talking about official patches. It literally doesn't matter if the game on release has bugs as long as it gets fixed. The first Unreal had a buggy release but it got patched and it became an all time classic.

>>375845963
>>375845924
I guess I will uninstall and reinstall steam version to see if it fixes my problem.

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>>375845938
>deeply flawed plot
?

>>375845902
>>375845963


>game is released , it has disruptive bugs for years
>people say it is worse than the first one for that and other reasons
>most bugs finally get fixed when everyone has already finished playing it years ago
>"guys, s-s-stop thinking that it's a bad game! y-y-your're obliged to retrospectively change your opinion and like it now"

too little too late.

>>375846398
>disruptive bugs for years
KOTOR 1 had the infamous bug where certain framerates would lock your character in combat mode permanently unless you loaded the game. And guess what it STILL FUCKING HAPPENS because it never got patched. So yes patches matter now fuck off.

>>375846398
>it's not a new game so nobody plays it

And I thought the casual audience only knows abbout Madden

>>375835893
Except Obsidian wasn't rushed at all with Pillars or Eternity and that game was great.

>>375846984
It's a good but not great game. I'm confident that Pillars 2 will be great though.

>>375846398

>game has flaws
>flaws are fixed

>i-i-i-it's still bad guys

>>375846173
>shit final chapter and ending
>main section of the game is a fetch quest for jedi masters then hurrr kreia is able to one-shot them all at once in a second
>the chapter with Atris becoming a bad guy and the handmaidens was convoluted and dumb and didn't work
>opening level was really boring and long and shit
>the crew was annoying sombre, dreary, less fun and interesting to interact with. Even the annoying characters from the Kotor 1 crew like mission you could love to hate and had some entertainment value.
>the hand-maiden and visas marr romances were just way less satisfying than kotor 1 romances and they were both robotic, creepy, vaguely unpleasant, unenjoyable characters.
>the scenario storylines on the actual planets themselves were just worse and less fun than kotor

>>375842475
kotor1 was a marvel movie
kotor2 was a dc movie

>>375846173
Scroll up senpai

>>375847081
>>375846752
>>375846613
>you have to replay the game every time a fix comes out even if you already finished it 10 years ago!
>why aren't you as autistic as me BAWWWWWW

When I was little I was waiting for the big shocking plot twist that would change the way I thought about the plot. When it never came I thought the story was bad.

As I got older i understood that a story doesn't need a plot twist to be good.

As I got even older I understood the virtue of not having a twist doesn't make it good by default.

>>375847327
>complain about issues in a game
>"OK here are some fixes"
>I don't want your fixes REEEEEEEEEEE

>>375846984
Did you play Pillars on release? It was mighty buggy. The cool thing about the Pillars is the amount of support they dedicated to it, including adding multiple features like companion AI you can program, removing trash mobs, adding stronghold content and, of course, fixing bugs. 3.0 is a different game from 1.0 to the point where you have people who hated it on release but enjoy 3.0 and DLCs a lot.

>>375847379
The plot twist is that Kreia is not really a Sith.

>>375847454
>complain about issues in a game
>"OK here are some fixes 10 years after the game came out when everyone has finished playing the game"
>I don't care. maybe if you had fixed the product when people were still playing it, people would have a different opinion about it.

there you go

>>375847637
The plot twist is that Kreia can somehow destroy ALL the force. That makes her the ultimate Mary Sue of Star Wars universe

>>375847863
>The plot twist is that Kreia can somehow destroy ALL the force. That makes her the ultimate Mary Sue of Star Wars universe

Did you even play the game?

All of that was a ruse. She never had any intention of killing the Force. It was a lie she told to Atris to get you to follow her to Malachor V so you could wipe out the Trayus Academy, gut the echoes, put her out of her misery and follow Revan after the true Sith.

>>375847861
They actually offered to release the patch shortly after the rushed released but the publishers refused it. Regardless from a technical standpoint KOTOR 2 is better than 1 simply because they actually patched and fixed bugs whereas KOTOR 1 runs like ass.

>>375847863
She probably can't, she just baits you with that. Consider the following:
>Kreia claims she can kill the Force by jumping in the Trayus Core, this would sever your link spoiler: there's no link and send muh echoes
>waits for you to show up instead of just doing precisely that
>you kill her, severing your link
>nothing happens
That was your final test, Exile.

>>375847863
>implying it wasn't just a bluff to make the Exile face her final exam, Sith-style

Congratulations on being dumb

>>375837734
anon
I play TOR ironically
but the only good thing about are the class stories, that's it. Everything else is terrible.

>>375847118
>main section of the game is a fetch quest

The main section of the first game is a fetch quest for the star maps

>>375847118
>>shit final chapter and ending
That's like your opinion man.

>>main section of the game is a fetch quest for jedi masters then hurrr kreia is able to one-shot them all at once in a second
And KoTOR's starmaps were better how? At least when we find those jedi masters we get some exposition about their philosophy on the force and how it relates to your character. Kreia then one shots them all (if you didn't) because she's been at this for a fucking while and is supposed to have a fine tuned mastery of the force, which is also the entire reason that the main character gets their power back at all. Pay attention sempai.

>>the chapter with Atris becoming a bad guy and the handmaidens was convoluted and dumb and didn't work
But it did? Atris was supposed to represent the more scholarly aspects of the jedi and the danger of unprepared minds when confronted with the mysteries of the force, it's the entire reason she stops her handmaidens from learning to be jedi and why it's so ironic when she falls, not that it was much of a surprise to begin with considering how bitter and angry she was at the exile. She was desperately searching for answers that would restore the order and eliminate the sith and so she was vulnerable when Kreia showed up and gave her that little push.

>>opening level was really boring and long and shit
Again, your opinion man. It's a better prologue than a lot of modern games have today.

>>the crew was annoying sombre, dreary, less fun and interesting to interact with. Even the annoying characters from the Kotor 1 crew like mission you could love to hate and had some entertainment value.
This is again your opinion. KoTORII gave all of the characters an interesting backstory and expanded on them the more you had them in your party. You must not have played the game much, if at all.

>>375847379
>When I was little I was waiting for the big shocking plot twist that would change the way
and that's why Kreia mocks you
Kreia's made to shit on KotOR1 babies who liked BioWare's juvenile shit writing. She even taunts you in the final confrontation saying some shit like "what? were you expecting some revelation that would shatter you to your very core? you'll find nothing of the sort here."

>>375848621
DESU as much as I prefer KOTOR 2 over 1 the part when Kreia one-taps all of the Jedi at once is dumb.

>>375848621
>>the hand-maiden and visas marr romances were just way less satisfying than kotor 1 romances and they were both robotic, creepy, vaguely unpleasant, unenjoyable characters.
Visas was abused for years from a very young age and latched on to the first bit of hope she found, she was supposed to be creepy. The handmaiden had likely never seen a dude before in her life and when she starts getting feelings she desperately tries to cover them up because of what Atris had taught her. Not to mention that you don't even notice it's a romance until Atton points out that sparring for Echani means more in their culture. You're also ignoring Atton which proves you haven't played the game that much.

>>the scenario storylines on the actual planets themselves were just worse and less fun than kotor
What I've learned from all this is that your opinion is shit, you're uninformed, and you're really not that good at picking up on subtle storytelling. I bet you fucking love TOR. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll grow out of being such a shitty contrarian.

>>375848719
It's set up, though? "There are techniques in the Force against which there's no defense".

>>375848719
It's not like it's the first time something like that happened. IT'S TREASON THEN, while being shit storytelling, did prove that sith lords were fucking spooky to fight. I think it also reflects how broken and lost the jedi were that they were taken out so easily, something the game spends a lot of time setting up.

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I never understood why people go all "muh Kreia" and "deepest lore" about KOTOR2. Maybe I've forgotten some important part in the years since I've played it, but I remember a horrible convoluted plot that made me wonder if there was a tie-in book I was supposed to read before hand so it would make sense. Constantly wondering what exactly the main characters motivation to do all the shit the game made you do was, beyond old hag said do it. And shallow characters spouting high school nihilism at me.

>>375849264
>Constantly wondering what exactly the main characters motivation to do all the shit the game made you do was, beyond old hag said do it.
>waah spoonfeed me
You're told why you have to find the jedi as you're flying away from Peragus and the Sith were after your character long before Kreia even shows up. Are you slow in the head?

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>>375849264
>Kreia - space Nietzsche
>Nihilism

>>375849459
Most people who say the plot is convoluted are.

REVAN
UNDERSTOOD
SNACKS

>>375849534
She's more of a Socrates, honestly. Her entire logic is elenchos

>>375848732
>Kotor 2 fan
>thinks he isn't the contrarian
hahaha

btw everyone agrees that the opening hours of gameplay of KOTOR2 sucked and the ending was a rushed mess. the fact that all you can do to defend them is play dumb and say "that's j-just your opinion" shows what a drone you are.

>>375849459
>Are you slow in the head?
what the fuck do you expect from biodrones?

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>>375849264
>And shallow characters spouting high school nihilism at me.

wew

You do realize you literally defeat a guy called darth nihilus who is the biggest threat to the galaxy. The game is hardly subtle with it's philosophy, but somehow people still have these dumb interpretations. No wonder you couldn't understand the plot either, which isn't complicated.

>>375850198
Why is every human in TOR so ugly.

>>375850198
i have a feeling that no matter what they did to revan in TOR/KotOR3 people wouldn't be satisfied

>>375848006
>>375848082
>>375848231
Assuming she lied, what does that accomplish? She expects Exile to kill Nihilus, who has powers to devour fucking planets, slaughter entire Trayus Academy full of force-eating sith, kill an unkillable Sion, kill her, leave Malachor and survive? That seems to be quite a lot of shit to do without her. How Kreia benefits from it? What if Exile dies? Why not just stay with exile? Did she lied about hating the force? What else did she lied about?

>>375850507
Yeah man, those entitled gamers! Fuck them!

>>375850521
>She expects Exile to kill Nihilus, who has powers to devour fucking planets
Exile is a hole in the Force, did you miss the scene where Nihilus tries to drain you and weaken itself?
>kill an unkillable Sion
She knew you can do it!
>How Kreia benefits from it?
She gets to see her favorite student graduate! Cute!
>Why not just stay with exile?
You can offer her. It seems like she's really tired. She's old.
>Did she lied about hating the force?
Nope.
>What else did she lied about?
The Force link, mainly.

I'd advise you to replay the game, but it's not a terribly fun game to actually play, so you can just read this Let's Play: https://lparchive.org/Knights-of-the-Old-Republic-II/

It includes some cut content and basically explains a lot of stuff that you didn't seem to pick up.

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>>375849862
>everyone agrees
I've been waiting for you, Biodrone. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete.

>>375850507
It didn't help that they fucked up literally everything about their core game, Revan was more of an afterthought I think, kicking us while we're down if you will.

>>375850521
Nihilus was naturally weak to Exile. Pulling the Exile through hell and back was just making sure that she's ready to face the true Sith empire and that no ubturned stone would ruin the effort

>what if the Exile died
Exile is a fucking siphon of endless Force points by that point. If anything, the whole Malachor business was abusing that knowledge to make Exile grind juuust a bit more

>>375850521
Sion was only unkillable by conventional means. In Kotor 2 you had to erode his will and convince to let go to finally kill him.

>>375850521
>How Kreia benefits from it

She is your master. This is your final test, proving that you are worthy to go and fight the True Sith.

>>375850521
The exile is a wound in the force. Nihilus' powers don't work on him, hence why Kreia wants you to defeat him, because the exile is basically the only person who can.

Sion and the academy is a test, just like most everything else. You're not meant to defeat sion through brute force because you obviously can't. You have to understand that the whole game is essentially a battle of beliefs, and Kreia is testing and training you. That's why it doesn't matter if the exile dies. If the exile dies he's ultimately a failure.

Sion is one of her pupils who she considers a failure, hence why she pits the exile and sion against each other

She's benefiting because through the exile she's validating her beliefs.

She's not lying about hating the force. That's why she is so interested in the exile, because the exile gives up the force willingly, while others become slaves of it. That's why she consider Sion a failure, because he can't even exist without the force, his entire power relies on it, and even though he's practically immortal because of it, she doesn't see it as true power. Kreia is all about the individual, that's why she rejects both the jedi and the sith because they both serve dogmatic beliefs, and the force is just this surrendering on a cosmic scale.

She wants you to kill her in the end as the final test, essential the student overcoming the master. She's a very Nietzchean figure who is all about that self-overcoming

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>>375850865
>Exile is a hole in the Force, did you miss the scene where Nihilus tries to drain you and weaken itself?
How did she know that would work?
>She knew you can do it!
That's actually fucking stupid because you could remove Nihilus and Sion entirely from the game and that wouldn't change overall plot. In fact, it would make the plot more consisted and less convoluted.
>She gets to see her favorite student graduate! Cute!
>You can offer her. It seems like she's really tired. She's old.
Why abandon Exile after killing Jedi Masters? She could have continued to travel with Exile and watch her succeed.
>The Force link, mainly.
Didn't the Jedi Master confirm that force link actually exists?

>>375851458
How did Kreia know that Exile would be able to do that? How did she know that it was possible in the first place?

You are starting to convince me that Kreia is the biggest edgelord in existence to the point of being picrelated times infinity.

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>No mod for Battlefront 2 to fight with the Republic and Jedi as Mandalorians using Basilisks
What. the. fuck.

>>375853098
How is knowing things edgy? And to answer your question, because she tested the exile throughout their journey. And to answer your other question, Kreia trained Sion, you would know that if you played the game.

>>375853098
>How did Kreia know that Exile would be able to do that?
I don't think she "knew". It was a test. If you passed it, good for you and for her, if you didn't, who cares.

>>375853098
>How did she know that would work?
It's simple logic, I guess?
>you could remove Nihilus and Sion entirely from the game and that wouldn't change overall plot
They're important to the themes of the game, they show you that a) over-reliance on Force can lead be your downfalls and b) contemporary Sith are a bunch of loonies.
>Why abandon Exile after killing Jedi Masters?
She's old and tired and basically wants to die on a high note, I guess.
>Didn't the Jedi Master confirm that force link actually exists?
Every single Force user in the game except for Kreia tells you that while Force links are not uncommon, the one that would be so intense that killing one of the linked person would kill another is unheard of.

>>375853098
>Why abandon Exile after killing Jedi Masters? She could have continued to travel with Exile and watch her succeed.
She wanted to test the Exile's limits. Also she was literally tired of living. She wanted the comfort of having one of her students be able to wipe out the force and save the galaxy, I think..

>>375853098
>How did she know that would work?

She fucking taught Nihilus. She knew exactly what was going to happen when a parasite tries to leech off a black hole in the Force.

>That's actually fucking stupid because you could remove Nihilus and Sion entirely from the game and that wouldn't change overall plot.

Sion is the guy behind the Sith threat hunting you from the very beginning of the game. What the hell are you talking about?

Nihilus is the most dangerous threat in the game, the guy behind everything going down on Onderon and Dxun, he is the very reason that the Jedi Order has vanished and is in hiding and is responsible for a fuck ton of the plot. Everything that has happened since Katarr is based on his actions.

>Why abandon Exile after killing Jedi Masters?

She didn't. She killed the Jedi to wipe out what she saw as their corrupt practices and obstinant horseshit. She lures you to Telos to deal with Atris while simultaneously finally luring Nihilus out from the shadows where he can be finally destroyed.

>Didn't the Jedi Master confirm that force link actually exists?

Wrong think. Anon is talking about the Force bond that Kreia says is between you and her. It is the sole reason that you initially allow her to travel with you. It turns out to be a complete lie. She makes you think that she will kill herself on Malachor which due to the alleged bond would also kill you, and subsequently destroy the Force. It's actually a complete lie.

>How did Kreia know that Exile would be able to do that

She taught him.

>convince me that Kreia is the biggest edgelord in existence

Sort of accurate. It's more that she is somewhat desperate and pathetic for her teachings to be validated since she was mocked by everyone for her failure of a pupil Revan.

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>>375853370
Hmm

>>375853726
Yeah they really did fuck up with the basilisk in kotor 2.

>>375853726
This was the only decision in this game I seriously disagreed with. Literally disgusting.

>>375853726
they're un-stupided it, I guess

>>375853098
Jesus Christ. I seriously hope you're just baiting, or didn't play the game or something. I don't know how it's possible to fundamentally misunderstand something this much.

>>375853905
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFGEDigPRXk
Also Forces of Corruption

>>375853726
in all fairness it really would have stuck out like a sore thumb otherwise.

>>375854347
Those aren't basilisks though, those are star vipers.

>>375853370
This basilisk was in force unleashed on psp.

>>375854347
Those are Star Vipers.

>>375853726
>"The Basilisk war droid version presented in K2 was an intentional departure from the ones presented in Tales of the Jedi, and we are happy, because frankly, those look really stupid […] So yes, the Basilisk droid version was an intentional departure from the older models, and we take full responsibility. It is noteworthy that LucasArts and Lucasfilm agreed with our decision on the first pass…"
Based Asselone.

>>375854429
They look the same.

>>375854784
Ok but they aren't the same thing.

>>375854707
Huh, weird how they used the actual basilisk war droids in the force unleashed,

>>375854897
>weird how they used the actual basilisk war droids in the force unleashed
Why would that be weird? That game wasn't written by Avellone.

>>375854964
Because lucasarts okayed both.

>>375855084
do you think they actually cared? do you know how much trash was there in EU?

fucking sun crushers

>>375855201
Probably not.

Also the good in the EU vastly outweighs the bad. And it blows disneyshit away, come back to me when Disney has anything as good as KotOR, or hell, even Republic Commando.

>>375830538
you forgot to mention adding useless force powers and prolly feats too (not sure cause i can't remember).
also kreia was unironically a shitty character although /v/ praises her for some reason

>>375855369
Why is she a shitty character?

>>375849601
WEAK

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>>375855332
>Also the good in the EU vastly outweighs the ba

No point trying to argue this to the newfags on here who think that shit like Dark Empire, Darksaber and Karen Traviss were the norm.

>>375855471
she boilds down to this, she bitches and disagrees with everything you do for the simple reason of disagreeing.
also there was no real mystery to her character to redeem for it.
>inb4 but she so grey
>inb4 one special case where she doesn't actually bitch and disagree

KotOR 2 is weird because it's a 10/10 game, split into a million pieces and drowned in a 4/10 game.

>Good
Dialogue and talking to things
Atmosphere
World building
Characters
>Bad
Everything else
>Shit
Combat (Fuck you the last hour of nar shadda and onderon II)

>>375853410
Being edgy meaning going to ridiculous lenghts to teach a student/prove her point.
>>375853693
>She fucking taught Nihilus. She knew exactly what was going to happen when a parasite tries to leech off a black hole in the Force.
That is somewhat inconsistent since enemies can use Life leech/Force leech againt you. Also couldn't Nihilus just forcezap exile out of existence? Kreia just betted on Nihilus being retarded.
>Sion is the guy behind the Sith threat hunting you from the very beginning of the game.
Sith can hunt you just the same without Sion.
>Nihilus is the most dangerous threat in the game, the guy behind everything going down on Onderon and Dxun, he is the very reason that the Jedi Order has vanished and is in hiding and is responsible for a fuck ton of the plot. Everything that has happened since Katarr is based on his actions.
That is actually a fair point. Still, giving powers to devour planets is obscenely retarded and unnecessary.
>She taught him.
Didn't Sion lived long before Kreia?

>>375855797
>That is somewhat inconsistent since enemies can use Life leech/Force leech againt you. Also couldn't Nihilus just forcezap exile out of existence? Kreia just betted on Nihilus being retarded.

Confirmed for never having played the game.

>>375855649
>characters disagreeing with me means they're bad

You also fundamentally misunderstand her character if you think she questions you for the sake of it. She's trying to get you to examine your beliefs through questioning you on why you are doing things.

>>375855681
i would give a special mention to hk-47 (if that was his name), kotor 2 fleshing him out was brety gud

>>375855959
>I have nothing to say: the post.

>>375856089
Why would i argue with someone who has clearly never played the game? Fuck off. Play the game, and come back and we can have a discussion.

>>375855968
first of didn't say "disagree means they're bad", that was a part of it though.
also, why couldn't she just talk to me like a normal human being instead of bitching about everything?

>>375855681
>d20 combat
>bad
(You)

>>375855797
>That is somewhat inconsistent since enemies can use Life leech/Force leech againt you.

They're not the same. All Sith can do that shit.

>Also couldn't Nihilus just forcezap exile out of existence?

They could.


>Kreia just betted on Nihilus being retarded.

Yes. It's a major theme of the game that Nihilus is greedy as fuck, and wants to absorb everything. By trying to slurp up your delicious Force goodness he chokes himself. Kreia likely knew that this was exactly what he would do.

>Sith can hunt you just the same without Sion.

They wouldn't be very interesting villains without a face who turns the beginning of the game into a spookfest. Don't you remember the Harbinger part of the game at all? He hunts you on Korriban, acts as the penultimate boss, is a driving force behind the extermination of the Jedi etc.

>Still, giving powers to devour planets is obscenely retarded and unnecessary.

Why? It's a fictional video game. It sets the stakes higher than they've ever been. The other major part of the game's setting, the decline and fall of the Republic, looks like a non-issue by comparison.

>Didn't Sion lived long before Kreia?

Yes, but the game makes clear (especially in the final section where Sion basically says he is terrified of Kreia and her manipulation of him) that she completed his training in the final years after the Jedi Civil War.

>>375856227
And how did you came to that conclusion, I wonder?

You're gonna get betrayed

>>375856317
>a combat has dice rolls so it's automatically good
lol who cares about implementation lmao

>>375856317
It's not that the system is bad, the game was designed badly, or too well.

You reach a point after a planet or two where there is ZERO challenge in combat, it is just killing wave after wave in a slog for rooms on end. If you max force lightning you can 1 shot every group of common enemies except on malachor V for example.

>>375856393
>wanting me to spoonfeed you

I'll give you a hint though.

>Also couldn't Nihilus just forcezap exile out of existence?

>>375853098
And this entire post.

>>375855332
>Also the good in the EU vastly outweighs the bad.
I seeeeriously doubt that, considering how huge it actually is.

>>375855601
You guys should've kept your Kevin J. Anderson in. Instead, he went on and ruined a setting that was actually unironically good.

>>375835752
>what is an RPG?

>I used to kill jedi, it was so easy
>I fell in love with a jedi
>I hate jedi
>I want to be a jedi

>want to be evil
>forced to have hanharr

whats the point

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>>375856617
>Kevin J. Anderson

Pure cancer.

Shitty writers like him were outshone by Timothy Zahn, Stackpole, Aaron Allston and Salvatore thankfully. The good thing about the old EU is that you could basically just ignore all the shitty parts of it since the good writers would just ignore them completely or deliberately take the piss out of them.

>I seeeeriously doubt that, considering how huge it actually is.

It's true. It's not like much of it was high art or anything like that, but due to the power of retconning by the 2010s it was mostly a fairly coherent and decent universe. Horseshit like clone Luke Skywalkers and massive Super Star Destroyers were pretty much ignored.

>>375856617
>I seeeeriously doubt that, considering how huge it actually is.


How? Most of the big name games, books, and comics are from the EU. No one ever talks about shit like the darksaber etc, unless they are deliberately bringing it up to say that the whole of the EU was bad because of a few bad apples.

>>375857020
When you have a large and diverse amount of something, most of it is usually not very good.