>hurr why are gmaes challenging man i just want to walk through

>re4
>horror

Same guy also said that Mass Effect 2 is the best. Take that as you will.

>clickbait OP so you have to google the full article
Too obvious retard.

>>375726031
I dunno man, visually it looks great and it's still kinda spooky

As far as that headline is concerned: what the fuck do you want?

What's the scariest thing you can think of that could happen to you in reality? A scary man does a big scream and he tries to kill you. The only other way it could possibly be scarier, without death being a factor in the horror genre, is if you had a VR games where you put on a wetsuit and your body was tortured or if you had to buy a peripheral to stick up your ass that would repeated brutal dungeon rape

I think survival horror needs an overhaul but death is an integral part of the genre because art must imitate life and death is scary

>>375726161
it is better than 5 and 6

>>375725940
Post an archive, you shill

>>375726161
RE5 is easily one of the worst games ever made. i never played 6 because of how bad 5 was.

>>375726852
>I've played 12 games

He's right, when you have to replay a section in a horror game it stops being scary.

The solution is rather than kill you have you lose things you acquired, items, time, limbs. The "Im now in a much worse situation" result is far scarier than "oh I gotta play this bit again"

>>375726161
have another (you)

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>/v/ is so contrarian is defends RE5 and 6 and claims they're better than 4

Games need to stop with the "Continue" feature after a game over.

No, faggot. Go back to the title screen and re-load that fucking save you lazy piece of shit, try not to suck next time.

>be stuck on mission in GTA 3
>be forced to drive from failure point/hospital all the way back to mission start
>have to go through entire mission again, the exact way it was the first time
>have to get my own guns, ammo, armor

>fail a mission in GTA 5
>check point resumes mission with less difficulty, full health, more ammo.

>>375725940
I suppose an option to watch it like a movie wouldnt hurt anybody. I mean You dont have to use it. Hell they could even sell it separetly.

>>375728328
>sell it
When people do lets plays, even with out commentary

I really hope some big-name developer makes a game that's as patronizing as possible for these casual fucks.

>playing a "horror" game
>giant arrows and unmissable sparkle effects constantly pointing the player where to go
>when the monster catches the idiot player, instead of a Game Over the monster giggles in an extremely exaggerated way and says, "You'll get it right next time, champ!" before skipping back to his hiding spot.
>constant words of encouragement in baby gibberish at every loading screen

Bonus points if the game only gets sent to journalists, making them think they're getting some ultra-exclusive sneak peek.

>>375728162
GTA3 was a better game, it had mission variety and nice challenge, compact design. The challenge in GTAV is not falling asleep during a trip.

What a fucking bland game.

>>375728328
>>375728328
>I suppose an option to watch it like a movie wouldnt hurt anybody.
That's what someone uploading GAME:THE MOVIE (ALL CUTSCENES 1080p 60FPS) videos on YouTube is for, alternatively, a "gallery mode" where you look at artwork and cutscenes.

>>375726121
It technically is.
The combat may be inferior to ME1 but at least you get to participate in it more than once an hour. ME1 is one of those "games" that you only play when real games have taken you to the point of mental exhaustion.

>>375725940
Nice shitposting OP. Love the clickbait too.

There is half of a point here, but as usual they've focused on the wrong half because they don't actually understand videogames.

When I was playing MGR:R it was fucking awesome fighting Ray the first time. There's one part where you're running down a clocktower dodging rockets and shit and the soundtrack is great and I was fully sucked in and immersed, having a fucking blast.

Then I died.

It was a stupid mistake and I wasn't paying attention and I proceeded to ace the part next time with no problems. But the magic was gone. I was taken out of that "space" that I was in, and the CUHRAYZEE was lost. So I do think there's something to be said about taking death out if you're looking to deliver that kind of focused experience.

But!

Don't pretend you're still making a videogame. And as much as it sucked being dumped out of that space in MGR:R, I still wouldn't have had it any other way because when I actually pulled off the CUHRAYZEE myself, instead of being handheld through a QTE I couldn't fail, it was satisfying in a different way.

He's got a point. Dying and reloading ruins the horror. It puts your mind into "this is a game challenge I have to beat" mode instead of "a monster is after me"

streaming is the worst thing to happen to games since paid dlc

>>375725940
He is absolutely correct you know. Horror games stop being scary because after dying a dozen times all the tension is gone and you just want to get over it. Sure as fuck happen to me while playing Siren and Fatal Frame.

>>375729743
>>375729821
so, because you're not good enough to survive, they should make their games easier? millennial logic right there.

>>375730003
>completely missed the point

What a stupid fuck.

>>375730003
Yeah bro fuck those millenials. *tip fedora*. Things were so much better back in the 60s.

>>375729665
>during on ray
Lol casual

>>375725940

Or you could have a fail-state that isn't your character dying, and doesn't involve a loss of progress (because it's so scary to play through a section you've already been through, right?)

Quit bein mad about video games

>>375730220
Yeah, I know, I know. It was the QTE when you run down that falling tower too. I felt so dirty for dying. Like I said, it was only the one time and I beat the game but I'm still sore about it.

>>375729821
> because after dying a dozen times all the tension is gone
How about you don't die a dozen times? Have you ever considered that these games are made for people who don't suck at playing? People who enjoy the tension of nearly dying, yet not dying since they are actually able to hold a controller, or use a keyboard and a mouse without looking like a retard?

>>375730406
>horror games are hardcore games

Wow

>>375730108
no i didn't miss the point, people have been regurgitating that stupid "point" for years. it's not a "point". when you have a "point" that implies that you actually thought about what you said before you said it, which you didn't. you know what would be nice? if someone who makes this "criticism" would come up with an actual idea of "some other way to deal with death". because as far as i know, when you die, you're dead. and that's the same logic that developers use.

>>375729821
>Sure as fuck happen to me while playing Siren and Fatal Frame.
I was with you to some extent until you quoted those games
>Siren
>Fatal Frame
>die a dozen times
Bitch please.

>>375729821
Yet without dying there's no tension to begin with.

Cos life is horror and you don't die yo.

>>375729743
I'm going to keep this short.

The over all problem is that, if you think like that, then you may as well think "it's just a video game, I can't be immersed because it's not really happening"

Do you understand the error in that way of thinking? That's down to the person being unable to become absorbed and immersed into the situation and there is nothing a developer can do in that instance to change how a person is immersed if they think like that. Even if you have a very strong atmosphere.

I believe the problem lies in dealing with corporeal horror.

>>375730220
I've died to that stupid laser sweep it does at the end of the clock tower part on higher difficulties.

>>375730406
That applies to any video game though.

>>375730108
Not him, but i think you are missing the point.
Your failure is the limiting factor here, not the games.
Yeah you lose tension, but thats because you are terrible. Asking for games to be lowered to fit your shit playstyle is fucking atrocious.

>>375725940
>Why "title of the video"
>instead of just "title of the video"
Why do people do this? adding "why" at the start adds fucking nothing

>>375730406

>horror games are made for people who don't suck at playing

... What? Where on earth did you get this idea? What kind of an argument is that?

Your argument that horror games should not attempt new and creative ways of handling a fail-state, is that people who play horror games don't fail to begin with? Do you read what you type before you post it? Fucking christ

>>375728007
I liked 4 and 5, fuck yourself.

What games need to stop is being like Outlast 2.

>>375730523
Exactly. Thats why horror video games are all shit and Resident Evil was better of as an action game. I am so glad Re7 flopped.

>>375730457
No they're absolutely not, which makes the point about death(probably your point even), much much worse.
If you can't even play a horror game without calling for the mechanics to change, then you better be looking for new things.

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>>375725940
>PC Gaymer

>>375729821
>>375729743
This. I'm playing Outlast II right now and I keep getting killed by the huge woman with the pickaxe. As soon as I die it immediately becomes tedious because I keep getting one-shot by this omniscient bitch over and over with the same death animations. Maybe they need the monsters to be too terrifying to even look at so it can still be scary even when you die, like the monster from Amnesia

Meh. Layers of fear was good but you don't die in that, well you can but not really.

>>375726161
RE5 was pretty fucking awful m8.
6 sucked too, but at least it didn't pretend it WASN'T a stupid action movie game.
Also, Chris' campaign was fucking godawful.

>>375726161
People like RE4 better generally because it doesn't take itself so seriously, unlike 5 and 6 which try and fail to be taken seriously.

>>375726161
>/v/ now likes Re5 more than 4

What happened to this board?

>>375726031
It does have a lot of spooky parts
>the village atmosphere (at least at first)
>that first garrador
>verdugo boss battle
>fucking regeneradores and iron maidens

>>375730575

>Yeah you lose tension, but thats because you are terrible. Asking for games to be lowered to fit your shit playstyle is fucking atrocious

Where did you get this idea that you should or are expected to beat every game the first time through without failing? Maybe back in the days of quarter munching arcade machines that might have made sense, but how on earth does it make a lick of sense now?

Failure is a normal part of art and an intricate part of what makes video-games interesting. Your ability to interact with the game is made much more meaningful by also being able to fail.

What we're talking about is not REMOVING the fail-state, and "lowering the game", we're talking about finding a creative way to handle the fail-state that would maintain the tension and horror the game is trying so hard to set-up.

Failure is inevitable, it is an intricate part of video-games. Saying "lol well you just shouldn't fail to begin with, everything should stay exactly the same", is just about the stupidest fucking argument I've ever heard.

>>375726121
I liked me2. I also liked the third and thought the original ending was not so bad so I probably like anything xD

>>375730623
>... What? Where on earth did you get this idea?
Reality. Also
>Your argument that horror games should not attempt new and creative ways of handling a fail-state, is that people who play horror games don't fail to begin with?
Get some reading comprehension. I never said that. Horror games can do whatever the fuck they want. But if you are unable to play some of the most straight forward and steamlined games ever made, and instead of realizing you're at fault, scream at the developers so that they please cater to you, because, lets face it, you failed - then you're a retard who seriously needs to think about letting go of life.

>>375726031
>he didn't notice how RE4 was inspired by Lovecraft

>[reductive bullshit]
[Ad-hominem, "I AM ANGRY"]

>>375730645
why? Its a really good horror game

>its a /v/ pretends they are super hardcore who never fail at anything episode

>>375730797
??
RE6 tries to be serious just like 5, if not more so. What made you think otherwise?

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>>375725940
>why horror games need to quit killing us
>or find a new ways to deal with death

>>375731108
RE6 has some hilariously retarded and over-the-top melee combat in the vein of 4, in addition to zombie gunkata.
It's stupid, but there's no way they added all that shit and took the game seriously.

>>375731005
>Where did you get this idea that you should or are expected to beat every game the first time through without failing?
He never said that. Jesus christ, are you the same idiot as this >>375730623 ?
He's simply saying that if you fail repeatedly at a game to such an extent that it loses all tension, then you are the problem. Not a single thing has been said about "beat every game the first time through without failing".

Like you're saying, failure is part of gaming. But the thing, most of us realize that its us who failed, not the devs. Thats like saying movies are at fault, because you managed to lucky guess the twist at the end, because you kept thinking about it, instead of enjoying the movie.
Take a hint faggot.

>>375731036

>Reality

Not an argument, so gonna gloss over that.

>Get some reading comprehension.

I think you're the one who needs reading comprehension. No one is "screaming at developers so that they please cater to you". We're discussing how to make video-games better, by making sure all the mechanics of the game serve the over-all purpose, in the case of horror games, maintaining atmosphere and tension.

Okay, just drop the shit flinging for one second and follow me here. What is being proposed here, is instead of failing and say, going back to the last checkpoint (disrupting the flow and destroying the tension) there could be another way to handle failure, say, losing lots of consumable items, or making the next enemies you fight even harder.

You seem to be thinking that what's being talked about here is outright removing the fail-state, for some cuddle bug no danger video-game, and that's not at all what we're talking about. Again, reading comprehension.

>>375731284

>He's simply saying that if you fail repeatedly at a game to such an extent that it loses all tension

I'm saying that simply dying once, in a game where you have to repeat a section because you died, will interrupt the flow and break the tension. You don't have to die a bunch of times for that to happen.

>>375730645
I just started playing 4 last week and i'm loving it. The castle has been crazy as hell

>>375731284
>if you fail repeatedly at a game to such an extent that it loses all tension

Thats subjective though. For some it might be 2-3 times.

>>375727754

>The solution is rather than kill you have you lose things you acquired, items, time, limbs.

This is a good idea. Make people want to play better because failure results in your character being corrupted, mutilated, stripped of important possessions, etcetera. Like, imagine if in RE7 losing a limb was actually permanent, or the act of reattaching it resulted in permanent negative repercussions, from slower response times/movement speed to degradation of sanity/risk of being infected.

>>375731284

>But the thing, most of us realize that its us who failed, not the devs.

The OP article is retarded, yes, but the actual idea buried in the article isn't half bad.

I'd be super interested to see a horror game that adopted something similar to this.

>>375728162
What kind of retard would do that in GTA?
>fail mission/get busted
>load last save
How much money and time have you wasted solely restocking ammo?

>>375725940
Whoever wrote this is a fan of Gone Home.

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>>375725940
>its another "I keep failing but I won't admit its my fault" episode
My favorite episode, right after
>This game is not made for me, so I demand it needs to be changed so its made for me

And then a picture of RE4? RE4 wasn't even scary-horror.
Last but not least: you're the minority. Most people don't care about that. Most people don't fail as much that the game loses all tension. Its a minority opinion from minority gamers.
And as usual it can be solved by getting gud. I can't believe that this is even up for discussion. I mean horror games? Come one. How much of a failure do you have to be, until this actually becomes an issue?

>>375731516
>>375727754
Its called Let it Die and /v/ hated it because it was too hard and the punishment for dying was too much. I fucking loved it and it was the most intense and scary game I have played precisely because of this. If you got killed you would lose all gear and the character itself.

>>375731085
not that guy but what he's probably gonna say is "MUH JUMPSCARES" as his reasoning for it being bad.

I do wish more games would handle your death as something that is happening in-universe instead of simply pretending it didn't happen and starting you at the last checkpoint/save.
>>375731221
Dunno dude, I don't feel like that was intentional. The only character with any campy charm was Jake (and the occasional snark you'd expect from Ada). Everyone else was super serious. Nothing like midget villains and spooky castles.

>>375729461

Combat is the only thing that's not inferior to ME1 you dildo.

>>375731284
You're acting as though all games have to restart you from a checkpoint when you fail

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>Watching horror movie
>Protagonist is caught by the monster and killed
>"No no no, that's not how it happened"
>Movie rewinds five minutes ago to the start of the chase
>Repeats until the protagonist escapes

Very good movie. I hate how some faggots are now trying to casualize horror movies by keeping the protagonist alive throughout the film.

>>375731682
ZombiU did it better while also being a horror game in the more conventional sense. Shame no one played that game because critics have shit taste.

>>375731343
>I think you're the one who needs reading comprehension
Yeah? Then why did you completely misinterpret my post?
Also, you're not saying anything new. Its the same old "I'm so bad I'm braking my tension" bs. And your "solutions" are absolute dogshit. Losing items in a horror game? Yea that'll totally please people already too bad to not die so much that the game loses all purpose. Same with making enemies harder.
Again: Reality. Get a whiff of it.
In case you haven't noticed. You're not saying anything worthwile. You're not having a valued opinion on the matter. You're shit, and what you say is shit.
>>375731431
>I'm saying that simply dying once, in a game where you have to repeat a section because you died, will interrupt the flow and break the tension
For (you) maybe. But 99% are not that autistic. Take your place at the back of the bus and shut up.

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Dieing in a horror game shouldnt be often enough that you get desensitized to it. But it should still exist, so that there is SOME tension and adrenaline to face. When you "die" in a horror game there should be permanent consequences. For example, your character could be transported to another level, locking you out of True Ending A, and putting you on Route B. Alternatively, you could lose sanity or some other gameplay mechanic is altered.

>>375725940
>Whoever wrote this article is a sopping cunt of a human

so a journalist?

>>375731826
Indeed, i liked how it handled that. Games of all types have a failure/reward system.
I dont think its something endemic to horror games and they all need to be changed as a result.
Every game has its own cycle. Some use load states, some use functions like ZombiU, Dark Souls, etc.

The article is pointless, and the ideas being kicked around here are similarly pointless. The individual game should tailor the response to failure. Not some genre sweeping "horror games shouldnt have death".

>>375732058
No, that is retarded. Kill yourself.

>>375731687
Because it's hide-and-seek simulator where player agency is extremely limited. More of these Amnesia types could learn a thing or two from the options something like Alien Isolation gives you. Prey seems to be scratching that itch too based on what I played in the demo.

>>375731716
They don't. The idea of new things is not what I'm opposed to.
Its the idiotic claim that there's something wrong with how they are designed, merely because some shitters are too stupid to play games, up to a point they ruin it for themselves.

And don't give me the 'its already not scary anymore after dying once' bullshit. Nobody has ever really cared about that. In fact, many people (shitters) favor this, so they can make progress where they failed before.

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>tfw like 4 5 and 6 because they all try something fresh

>>375725940
I haven't read the article, but if you die in a horror game you eventually start realizing a checkpoint is the worst that will happen and you stop being scared. It's not some nu-gamer stuff, it's just a flaw with design.

>>375732459
Shut up faggot we can't be arsed to come up with anything better than hitpoints.

>all those idiotic (((solutions))) in this thread
I like the article. Because once again it has shown why /v/ is /v/ and not a bunch of developers lmao.
Game is fine now fuck off

There is no good way to handle this the way the author wants outside of LITERALLY making a haunted funhouse carnival game where nothing can actually hurt you. Even the most barebones walking simulator type horror games have some failstate and danger.

>>375732459
>but if you die in a horror game you eventually start realizing a checkpoint is the worst that will happen and you stop being scared.
Its almost like its not real. Welcome to video games, enjoy your stay.

>>375732596
Your wrong btw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WyalnKQIpg

>>375729821
You're a fucking retard. If you want to be scared without having your character die then just watch a fucking movie. It's because of faggots like you that we're getting the 'cinematography' bullshit.

>>375731779
>he didn't watch Funny Games

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Alot of the tedium and loss-of-tension can be alleviated if the game changes up the experience in some way everytime you reload. You have to find a happy medium between being entirely static and randomly generated. Things like changing up enemy AI pathing or item locations everytime help keep things fresh.Normally I'd argue that things like that are harmful in a true stealth game, but in the case of horror, I think it's better for the game to be constantly working against you and never letting you get comfortable. Thoughts?

>>375732962
Anything but reloading from a checkpoint that's a few minutes away

>>375732731
Where is he wrong? All you did was posting a video of some pretentious retard, parroting the same shit.

>>375732731
>corpse run comes from old MMOs

I was already thinking that guy was a faggot, now i'm sure.

>>375732731
>Bloodborne made him think about death in video games
>had a lot of time to think about it
LMAO SHITTERS CONFIRMED!
Why am I not surprised that this whole (((argument))) is led by people sucking at video games?

>>375732731
>BB
>Souls
>Rage
>SO Mordor
>Prey
>FC2
All of those have a failstate, death and in some way make you retread, even if it mixes things up a bit. Games like Spelunky with a form of random generation wouldn't work in a horror game, atleast not well. The genre hinges on deliberate level design.

>>375733257
All I did was post a video showcasing games that have innovated on failstates (or minimize repetition and tedium after death) instead of being lazy hacks and just using checkpoints.

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>>375733384
>He didn't get the joke

>>375732731
>praises games that handhold players so they hardly have any proper failstate
>says they make death more impactful
Uhm .... no? Having the game go out of its way to keep you from dying does not make death more impactful, it makes it redundant. Being reset to a previous state, THAT is an impact. Its just that many idiots can't handle that impact, like the creator himself who apparently was too bad to play the easiest souls game on the market.

Lets not forget that many, proabably most players enjoy those set failstates, since it gives a sense of progression and accomplishment. Games excusing any action the player has are forgettable. Most of the games he mentioned are forgettable, meanwhile games he mentioned as "bad" examples live on.
That should make one think.

>>375733576
Anon.... you failed horribly. That one went straight over your head...

>>375733474
Yeah, i would make a lot of sense to have a corpse run in RE4, or playing a mini game to not die completely negating the loss of progress the death was suppose to give you. Innovating for the sake of it is what shit indie devs do and most of the time it leads to an annoying mechanic, an annoying twist on a classic mechanic or a mechanic that feels completely out of place. Some games work better with the classic "You lose! Retry?" and it's fine that way.

>>375730204
He's probably Gen Z, they have a hilarious hatred of Millennials.

>>375730518
the fucking kid section in Siren was pretty much game over inducing

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>>375733983
>Being reset to a previous state, THAT is an impact.

>Ohh gee I have to re-do this part of the game only all my health and ammo is restored and I know what to expect aw nuts what a bother

>>375733384
What do the Jews have to do with this?

How about it's time for video game journalists to die instead.

>>375734306
Aren't Gen Z and X both considered Millennial?

>>375734306
>Gen Z
So underage?

>>375726161
5 and 6 are better than 4. Only fucking kids think its better because of babbys first resident evil and muh leon

So you want to play games in GODMODE? That's what ruined Kirby's Epic Yarn for me.

>>375727754

thats actually a nice concept, but I think its hard to balance.

>>375734480
>Ohh gee I have to re-do this part of the game only all my health and ammo is restored and I know what to expect aw nuts what a bother
Seems to be quite a bother, otherwise this thread wouldn't exist and people wouldn't make videos after dying in bloodborne :^)

>>375725940
I agree with the clickbait title at least though.

Death in a video game is pretty meaningless, horror games could be a lot better by finding a more creative way of being "scary" than "Lol, youre dead again, have some gore".

>>375734650
>RE5
>Exactly like RE4 but with forced co op
>RE6
>Max Payne with less Zombies

>>375734606
No.
Gen Z is post-millennials.
Millennials are the last generation born in last millennium. They are a relict of deprecated ideas like being white and not accepting islam.

>>375734606
No, Gen Z, Gen X, and Millennials (Gen Y) are all different generations.
The general gist is, a generation is usually going to be raised by the generation 2 generations before it.
So Gen Z was raised by Gen X, Gen Y (Millennials) was raised by Baby Boomers, Gen X was raised by the Silent Generation, etc. etc.
>>375734641
The oldest Gen Zs would be in their early 20s.
http://genhq.com/faq-info-about-generations/
Though it's widely disputed, so whatever.

>>375734778
Balance is for faggot, is what make a game what matter

>>375727754
>He's right, when you have to replay a section in a horror game it stops being scary.
Until you've redone that part and walked around the next corner/the scenery changes.
I mean wtf? You fags act like the whole game is ruined after dying once, which isn't the case. Ten minutes later you're already into it. And those solutions are crap. I don't want a "horror" game in which I only ever move forward.
Fear of dying is part of horror. People die in horror movies and thats why you die in horror games.

>>375734797
I think the murder of game journalists would be far more meaningful and impactful.

>>375734784
You seem set in your ways and any points made contrary to them you intentionally put over your head. Goodbye!

>>375734973
People dying in horror movies as consequences, while dying in horror games doesn't not, that is what is being discussed, dumbfuck

>>375734784
You don't seem to understand anything anyone's talking about so I'll remind you:
People don't dislike death because it's too intense for them, they dislike it because it's boring.

>PC gamer
really makes me think......

>>375729461
Yeah I love how ammo types are now a skill and universal skill cool down exists. Who needs the complexity of weapon mods and skill stacking?

>>375726031
>alone in a strange place being hunted by murderous hicks, braineashed cultists, giant monsters and other abominations
>b-but you have a gun so it's not horror!
You're genuinely retarded

>>375735003
Well, I agree with that, but thats not mutually exclusive

>>375735236
>points made contrary to them you intentionally put over your head.
>shitty greentext bait
>points made contrary
Lmao! And lets not forget:
>Goodbye!
Oh no! A failstate! But for whom?

>>375735440
RE4 is closer to RE5 than it is to something like Dead Space (1). In fact I'd even say that Dead Space 2 is more of a horror game than RE4 is

>>375726031
This, also

>PC Gamer

>>375735440
It's like calling Sean of The Dead horror.

>>375731682
>Its called Let it Die

Let it die wasn't scary it was p2w after the 11F.

Artificial difficulty.

>>375735734
Shaun*

>>375734480
Except for some of the games that don't do that which are rare and few in between but still your argument is a full box of retard.

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>eating shit

it's your own fault and you deserve it

>>375732713
You need a suspension of disbelief to immerse yourself with horror. I think this is a valid problem worth addressing.
>>375732554
I'd like to see a horror game that is successfully scary without hitpoints or death. I don't know where to start, but leaving the player knowing there are things besides death to expect would be really interesting.

>>375735783
I finished it without paying and it gets easier thanks to all the OP free mushrooms they give you. You are an idiot.

>>375725940
Death doesn't need to go away but I do like when games go beyond the typical
>you died, go back to the savepoint/checkpoint/start of the level/etc
Also insta-death QTEs can fuck right off.

>>375728709
Do this except the game slowly and without warning starts removing those features until there's literally no interface left.

>Why _____ needs to _____

I stop reading any articles that start off with headers like this.

Can anyone actually post an alternative to death in a horror game? I mean not just "lose an item" at least explain it a bit. Because losing an item just means I can run past enemies and not give a fuck about losing items.

Would a horror game work if played as multiple characters?
Like, lets say you start out as one character, or choose a character from a list. You get some time to know this character a bit before shit hits the fan, and then shit hits the fan for the whole town/city/country/world. Let's say aliens invade, or a hole to hell opens up or some shit.
Now you play as that character until you die. But when you die, that's it for that character. They're dead, and you'll be put into the role of one of the other characters, and play their part from that point in the story.
So you can end up not knowing who the person you're playing as, or what they've been through, but if you manage to keep a character alive, you'll get their whole story, so you don't want to die, but you'll not be forced to "redo" parts if you do, since that character is dead.

>>375734973
The fear of dying being such a fleeting fear you dopey fuck, and that's the supposition of the article. I mean, I'm not sure if you know what suspense and tension are, but they're basically eliminated the second you're greeted with a You Died screen.

Also, getting your ass kicked repeatedly in a hard section does spoil the tension for the whole game.

The problem is there is no fix. Horror games will continue to be shitty and not scary.

>>375726161
RE4 > RE6 > RE5 as action games.

Horror games need to tackle the most horrifying thing of our time: rape culture.

>>375736746
Imagine getting raped in first person as a girl.

>>375736096
>I spent way too much time on a game with no redeeming qualities
Congratulations?

>>375736508
I'm thinking of Outlast 2, and how it's the best example how they should have shaken things up. It's narrative driven, and not "game-y" like Dead Space or Resident Evil, so checkpoint respawning is a big drawback.

Take the AIDSwoods before the lake. There's two scripted sequences where you get crucified (then escape) and buried alive (then escape). Rather than be cutscenes they could have been failstates. And then after that you would just straight-up die if caught again. There could have been an alternate ending where you don't get to Lynn in time if you get captured too much.

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>>375736817

>>375725940
Having not read the article, I actually can agree with this because eventually death in some of these games removes tension because you already know the worst that can happen, and because everybody loves the walking around being weak as shit horror game memes the fact that there is no chance you have and you already accept the worst means the fear just leaves.

If you can fight, but you can also lose the fight against the horrific thing it creates tension and you can get more "scared" then just from seeing bloobloo scary Alien or whatever.

Then again most people now are acting like the pinnacle of horror is no to borderline useless weapons and hiding in shit so you fags keep being little princesses acting like you are above jump scares playing shit that is fundamentally jump scares.

>>375725940
The only game that ever really scared me was the original Phantasmagoria. They spend the whole game chipping away at your emotional state, slowly unraveling the story, only to kill your ass repeatedly in the last act.

>>375726031
when I rented it for ps2, it was fucking scary as fuck I couldn't even beat the first level

>>375736817
>as a girl
*trashes your post*

>>375731682
Let it Die is not a horror game you cum guzzling retard.

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>>375725940
I made this same argument in a Silent Hill thread yesterday.

>Dying in a horror game is "scary"
>You need combat to make your horror game scary

Modern horror games could learn a lot from the RPGMaker/Half-Life mod horror classics.

Explain to me how occasionally nailing a Lying Figure with a pipe or shooting a zombie is scary or adds tension? It's not tense, it's not scary, it's just a chore. The thing that makes horror games good are the atmosphere, story, puzzles, and exploration.

If you need fodder enemies to be "scared" you might be a simpleton.

>>375726161
Better than RE5, and RE6, and even RE7 now. Yet I place RE7 above 5, and 6.

>haha fucking idiots
>hold on gotta quickload, almost died

>>375737085
Guys can't get raped

>>375733983
>Having Madison die in Heavy Rain and locking you out of an ending for the rest of your playthrough is more handholding and less impactful than reverting to a checkpoint

What did he mean by this?

>>375736746

So a game that takes place in a prison?

>>375737192
Can a fleshlight by raped?
Then why could any other object be raped?

>>375737192

Rape isn't a real thing.

>>375737098
>It's not tense, it's not scary, it's just a chore.


If it's not scary or tense, the fight is too easy. It's as simple as that. Also pacing is an important part of horror. You cannot be scared all the time. What can scare you about certain things is a subversion to your expectation.

>I am zombie kill guy I kill zombies
>I kill 50 zombies woah zombies not scary
>Wait why this zombie so fast please zombie no ZOMBIE PLEASE STOP NO WHY WONT ZOMBIE DIE
>Why that zombie special okay I kill more zombies...they normal, what was that zombie? Is there more? Can I kill another.
>I scared.

There is literally nothing scary about walking around a fucking place defenselessly. There is nothing scary about a puzzle you fucking dense cunt. If anything puzzles are a chore.

>FIGURE OUT MY RIDDLE ABOUT SOME BOOKS
>A R E Y O U S C A R E D?

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>>375733983
>Dying and being able load back a save from 5 minutes ago is a "proper fail state"
>Dying and permanently losing that character and totally altering the story and the ending from that point on isn't

...lol?

>>375728709
I've often thought it would be clever if some developer made a game with a "Story-only" mode that skips all actual gameplay sequences, and puts out a build with ONLY that mode available as the review copy of the game. And then the actual game comes out and it turns out to have actual gameplay.

>>375726031
Yeah, this shit is moronic. Subgenres and cross-genre titles exist. Action-horror is still horror.

>>375737192
Come over here and I'll prove you wrong.

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>dying in modern baby games

I've played around 10 games this year and the only one that's consistently been able to kill me is Nioh.

This is also why Nioh is great and grants a sense of satisfaction I haven't felt since Bloodborne. On the flip side, Nier was too easy despite having good combat, so the satisfaction was lacking.

>>375737467
>There is literally nothing scary about walking around a fucking place defenselessly. There is nothing scary about a puzzle you fucking dense cunt. If anything puzzles are a chore.

Right, no game is scary. The best a game can be is spooky. So be the best spooky you can be instead of doing retarded shit with enemies.

Horror movies/books are scary because you lack control, you're forced to be with the characters but can't do anything. In game, you do have control, it can't be scary.

Your problem is your dogmatic assumption that retarded horror combat with enemies is the ONLY way to make a good horror game. (it's not)

>>375726161
RE4 is good, RE5 is ok i guess, coop is fun.
RE6 is the best wrestling game ever made.

>>375736817
I'm pretty sure it's just as bad getting raped as a dude.

The original Resident Evil was pretty good with death. You could only save with Ink Ribbons which were in limited supply, so you had to be conservative with saving your progress.
So dying was a heavier consequence, especially if you had made some progress since your last save.

But I'm looking forward to Friday the 13th the game for this reason. It's a game where if you die, that's it, you lose and you have to start over in another match.

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>>375737728
It's not rape if I like it

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>>375737462
If rape isn't real, then what is canola the cultivar of?
Checkmate MRApists

>>375736601
I think this would work if there were a fixed number of characters and the story had some sort of randomness and/or procedural generation (maybe it chains together events from a list) that way even if you got a complete Game Over and everyone died, in a new game it wouldn't just be "I already know what to do with X character".

>>375735431
me1 is the definition of artificial complexity

>>375725940
>PC Gamer
this is what happens when people with systems that are not primarily dedicated to gaming get in on the hobby. you wouldn't see drivel like this from sony or nintendo users.

>>375737798
Everything you are saying is wrong.

>Right, no game is scary.

Games can be scary if you allow yourself to be scared. As a man, being scared without actual fear for your life is a state you let yourself be in.

>So be the best spooky you can be instead of doing retarded shit with enemies.

Things without enemies are not spooky, they are boring. They are insanely boring. You are just walking and reading about something spooky that might have happened. There is nothing spooky about that at all.

>Horror movies/books are scary because you lack control,

No they aren't. They are easy to watch because you are not the one in control. Anything that happens is not happening to you, it's happening to them. When they have to get out of their situations or succumb to it it has nothing to do with you. Giving you agency makes for a situation where you can more easily physically effect somebody. "Being on the edge of their seats" meaning changes when you are 1 hp no continues fighting a final boss with 25% health. That feeling you can give people in that scenario, the endorphins, anxiety, mindlessness, and total nature of it is much more of a fear than just sitting around walking goes "wooah dude that's like scary what is cuthulu like ate is bro wooah."

And any horror game without combat gets stale after maybe 1-2 hours.

>>375738158
>Games can be scary if you allow yourself to be scared. As a man, being scared without actual fear for your life is a state you let yourself be in.
Then allow yourself to be scared by games with no enemies?

>Things without enemies are not spooky, they are boring. They are insanely boring. You are just walking and reading about something spooky that might have happened. There is nothing spooky about that at all.
Pure opinion and generalization. Complete lack of specifics.

>No they aren't. They are easy to watch because you are not the one in control. Anything that happens is not happening to you, it's happening to them. When they have to get out of their situations or succumb to it it has nothing to do with you. Giving you agency makes for a situation where you can more easily physically effect somebody. "Being on the edge of their seats" meaning changes when you are 1 hp no continues fighting a final boss with 25% health. That feeling you can give people in that scenario, the endorphins, anxiety, mindlessness, and total nature of it is much more of a fear than just sitting around walking goes "wooah dude that's like scary what is cuthulu like ate is bro wooah."
With the horror games you're talking about, there really is no choice. They're all extremely linear for the most part with a linear story. It's basically a shitty horror movie where you can control (and prematurely die) in-between story segments, but the out come is always the same like a horror movie. Not scary.

>And any horror game without combat gets stale after maybe 1-2 hours.
If you think I'm talking about shit like Outlast and Alien:Isolation, I'm not.

>>375737967
I was thinking that maybe the story would change for each character, based on who and when someone had died, since they do/doesn't get to do an action that would either directly, or indirectly effect the other characters story and progression.
Like let's say that one character finds their way to the power plant. There they'll turn off the power to some a part of the city, for what ever reason. This in turn will effect a character that is in that part of the city, so if you die, and then play that character, you'll have either helped, or made things harder for yourself.
And if the character didn't even make it to the power plant, or died before they could turn off the power, than that would also affect the story for the other character in the same way, but with a completely different outcome.

>>375738158
Not him, but keep this in mind:
Horror movies are scary because there is a sense of finality when shit happens, and because you cannot urge the characters to follow your advice. They are also more articulate in their ability to apply tension and suspense.

Horror games are scary because although you are in control, the game is designed to impose a sense of helplessness or it least pressure. You also control your own drip of suspense and tension, which may be good or bad.
The problem with horror games however is Game Overs erase all tension and suspense, until eventually it hollows the game of any ability to scare the player at all, even in later scenarios.

Neither are scary really.

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>>375730884
>6 tries to be taken seriously

>>375725940
>ctrl+f
>Evil Within.
>"0 results."
>mfw /v/ is too pleb for the finest horror game ever made.

>>375737886
>that belly
HHHNNNNG who is this

>>375726161
I hope you're merely pretending to be retarded

>>375737886
>if I like it
>fat, unwashed, indian dude sticks his mutilated penis inside you

>>375725940
I actually find dying in certain horror games sucks away the spookiness.
Like in Outlast 2 if you repeatedly die in an area then traversing that area stops being scary/atmospheric and just becomes annoying.

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>pc gaymer

newfriends

>>375730609
Article writing trick that lets people feel more intelligent about themselves.

>>375739679
>Consult an FAQ
>Not grammatically correct

How many levels is this man on?

>>375739005
Evil Within had bullshit difficulty spikes though. There were too much cheap unavoidable insta deaths and bullshit bullet sponge enemies.

>>375739679
is that Ys ? which one?
I'm looking for something like this to play, looks top comfy

>>375739679
I don't get this mentality. When ever I've actually been stuck in a game, and I'd have to look up how to progress, I never said to myself "How the fuck was I supposed to know how to do that?", but rather "How the fuck did I miss that?".

>>375739679
whats funny is that if there was a similar scenario like this in a zelda game the reviewer would say something like "this zelda game does a good job at making players explore off the beaten track in hopes to find hidden treasures to help you in future battles. 10/10 gameplay. this truly is a master piece!"

>>375728162
I like it better when there is an in-game penalty for dying and you go back to the respawn point with the world unchanged rather than reloading a save and doing what you did all over again

>>375726161

RE4 is a better designed games than 5 or 6. Not as mechanically refined obviously but the level design, enemies, pacing, all of that is MUCH better than in 5 or 6.

>>375736741

And this guy fucking gets it.

>>375740073

Oath in Felghana. It's definitely worth playing but some of its bosses are pretty damn tough.

I think what opened my eyes to how brain dead most gamers are is when I saw a screencap of a reddit thread where posts with thousands of upvotes were saying things like "I find Uncharted too hard, I wish there was a way to skip the combat and just focus on the story" and "a hard video game is like having a second job "

>>375740170
Those people have some kind of problem, they think it's never their fault, they are never wrong, etc.

>>375730679
>re7 flopped

you do realize its only 500k short of expected sales. that's not bad at all.

>>375737049
Maybe you were just autistic

>>375740880

And actually good horror is completely unmarketable and unpalatable to these shitters. I mean, I'm looking at OP's pic here and removing death from horror games? Fucking really? I can already tell whoever wrote it isn't a fan of horror. Repercussions give the player something, ANYTHING to actually fucking fear. Horror does not work when it's just a spooky stroll in the park. God fucking damn it, I'm mad.

>>375740880
These people would literally rather have if Tetris only had the four-by-one piece. And even if they got that, they'd still complain that it's too hard, and complain that it's not just one-by-one pieces.
They don't want games, they want fidget toys.

>>375741128

It also broke even 500k units before hitting even that mark. Every copy of it sold at this point is straight profit.

>>375730679
It didn't flop and you're a dumbass

>>375741281
And what repercussions does dying and restarting give other than lost time?

>>375742259

Same as any other where death is a consequence for playing poorly. If you're worried about "lost time" then don't play video games with any degree of challenge to them.

>>375742259
Lost time in itself is a repercussion.

>>375739679
Damn, Ys looks really ugly after it stopped being 2D, and they changed the style of soundtrack too for some generic trash.

>>375735734
sean of the dead is comedy horror tho

>It's a /v/ is only intelligent enough to refute an article headline thread

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>>375726852
>RE5 is the best worst game ever made

ftfy

>>375742691
The point is that lost time isn't something to worry about, especially since you rarely lose much of it.

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>Angry pissed off puerto ricans with axes, pitchforks and torches yelling spanish gibberish to you
>scary

>>375726031
Horror is subjective dumbus.

>>375744160
Then make them go further back. Maybe have them replay the whole game. Easy fix.

>>375735734
I dunno man, the final part in the pub got pretty heavy.

>>375743392
>It's a /v/ only has the attention span enough to refute an article headline thread

Fixed

>>375744539
Why did you take the argument to the point of resolution then drag it further away from it.

>>375744160

So it shouldn't matter if the game punishes failure or not? Can't say I agree with that, especially when it comes to horror. A good deal of what makes the genre work is suspension of disbelief, the feeling that whatever you're up against is a threat and death means something. Without that, you rely solely on aesthetics to arouse fear but once it sets in that nothing will actually hurt you then it's even more of a waste of time than just having a death state. Avoidance of failure, combined with that suspension of disbelief, is what leads to those emotional rushes that one feels when playing a horror game. it's not an easy trick to pull off and it varies for everyone but those two things working together make for some of the most reliable horror experiences in vidya. You can say that lost time is irrelevant but I would say that a game with no repercussions is still more irrelevant. You might as well cut the middleman and watch a movie at that point.

>>375730708
Based Gaben. Heard the game was fucking shit though.

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>>375744916
But restarting the whole game is going further back
If you're saying that's too harsh, then your argument is going to go nowhere useful because it's just subjective for every game in the genre

>>375744916
Mostly a joke. But I could see it work in rare cases. I personally found SCP Containment Breach more scary when you couldn't save, since when you died, you had to start over, but that game is also randomly generated, so that might be a factor too.

>waaaaaaaah games shouldn't let me die because then my fee fees will get hurt and ill feel bad if i lose waaaaaaaaaaah

Why do casual bother to give their opinions on anything?

>>375730708
>After it came out, nobody cared about Postal
If he means after Hatred came out, yeah that happens.
If he means after Postal itself came out and is saying people stopped saying it would collapse the morality of the video games industry, then yeah that's because people who complain about things like that are morons.

If he means nobody liked Postal, then he's one of those morons.

In conclusion, he's either slow on the uptake or stupid.

>>375745267
See >>375743392

>>375745108
I'm saying that its stupid to drag the argument into nothingness again when a resolution is already achieved. You're doing it too.

>>375725940
Resident Evil 4 is probably the most well designed horror game of all time. Its more of an action game but its really mostly a collection of small survival sandboxes like D44M or Serious Sam but in third person and with less ammo and health (to make it more like survival horror).

>>375725940
That's quite an interesting filename OP.

>>375739890
>How many levels is this man on?

How many are you?

>>375731687
I knew I shouldn't have gone out for coffee. Nah nigga it's a legitimately awful game. Hide and seek isn't scary, it isn't fun and I was more than tired of it by the end of alien isolation. And that game gave you more options, Outlast 2 is legitimately awful. Also the animations for bad guys are lacking and you are nearsighted for some reason even with glasses. Game is just boring.

i got the evil within and when you try to stab the guy at the start and he just turns around and kills you i stopped playing. what a shitty game.

>>375734853
how can you put re6 in the same breath as max Payne? What the fuck? Re6 is fucking awful, being better than 5 doesn't change that.

>>375746539
It's not just hide and seek, you little twerp.

>>375747748
If you mean alien isolation, I know. But the game forces you to play like that for way too much at first.
If you mean outlast 2, ur dumb lol. The qtes and collectibles and record this and microphone this doesn't add gameplay.

>>375725940
>wanting horror to lack a failstate
baka desu

>>375748706
See >>375743392

>>375730645
>re5
>good
/v/ shifts their opinion on everything when it helps them hate people for no reason

>>375725940
So what is a good alternate failure state that is as clear cut as death?

all of you faggots act like dying a million times in a horror game like ayy lmao isolation doesnt ruin the game
once you start dying that much you learn the tricks of how to avoid death when its about to happen and how to cheese the AI and the fear is gone and replaced with annoyance

>>375726721
I dodnt even poat a link cause i dont want you to read it the mans opinion is garbage absolute garbage

>>375736508
Zombie-u made your death permanent for a character and you continue as a new guy but have to gather your stuff off your corpse that is now a zombie in the world.

>>375748889
I played it on release with my bud on a shitty HDTV. Go into a RE thread sometime.

>>375728007
RE5 is fine as a co-op game, which is itself a big issue considering Resident Evil was a single player-focused series up to that point. By yourself, it's a tedious slog, but with a friend it's alright.

>>375725940
he's right though--
Killing you makes games less scary. Amnesia for example knew that.

>>375725940
YEA MAN AMNESIA WAS REALLY COOL I LIKED HOW IF I SOMEHOW WAS DUMB ENOUGH TO DIE I RESPAWNED 5 FEET AWAY AND REMOVED THE MONSTER

>>375746262

>a eff ey cue

Are you retarded, anon? Nobody pronounces it "fack".

>>375750729
The bigger problem with horror games, for me anyway, isn't death but repetition. If i can expect the order of events, I'm no longer scared. this is why I wasn't as crazy about Amnesia as I probably should have been, because I found out the pattern early on; enter new area, walk around, find key item, monster spawns. If anyone can think of a counter example, please correct me.

>>375743392

>no pastebin
>wanting to give clicks to a clickbait article

/v/ refutes actual articles all the time.

>>375725940
I sincerely prefer death hazard, than pedo, Christian or satanic trash

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>>375725940
>feeding clickbait

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>>375725940
H-HORROR GAMES ARE TOO SCARY!!
D-D-DELETE DEATH RIGHT NOW!!!

>>375751573
(cont)
oh and I forgot the last trend: parent issues

>>375728007
age anon.most 20 somethings first RE was 5
the 360 is over 13 years old. a 6 year old in 2005 is old enough to smoke now.

>>375751789
More likely "it's not scary when it plays the same exact death animation when the exit isn't clear and you just keep throwing yourself at the room in a game without combat"

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>>375751941
>no one leaving high school now has any memories of 9/11

>>375731516
At the risk of shitting up yet another thread with Soulsfaggotry, I think the Souls mechanics are one path you could go with this. Dying causes you to lose resources/currency (souls) or important items (humanity). Of course it would be cool to see other games take inspiration from this without being Souls clones.

>>375735440
>>alone in a strange place being hunted by brainwashed cultists, giant monsters and other abominations

So Doom is a horror game you fucking retard?

>>375729461
>The combat may be inferior to ME1
excuse me?

>>375752924
Didn't Diablo invent that?
I love Dark Souls, so it's cool to talk about it.
It sucks how over-enthusiastic fans spamming other threads with references to the games has given bringing them up at all a bad name.

>>375751941
Nah that's bullshit. Unless you're factoring in normiedom in which case you can say all kinds of depressing shit like 'Most people's first TES is Skyrim.'

I played RE2 at 4 years old and am turning 23 soon. Anyone with older siblings that played video games is probably similar. If not they probably started with 4 if not Code Veronica or 3.

>>375753780
I'm 20, and started with REmake and 4: got them bundled together for my Gamecube.

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>>375744268
You've clearly never been laying low in Tijuana to wait out some alleged sexual assault charges. Armed with nothing more than an unlicensed handgun, four bullets for said handgun, the clothes on your back, and a pathetic 1st grade understanding of the Spanish language.
Shit's scary.

>>375727754
>The solution is rather than kill you have you lose things you acquired, items, time, limbs
Now what the fuck happens after all your items are gone and cannot progress? What happens when time runs out? What happens when you lose all your limbs?

It will be game over and instead of playing the part you know, you go through the entire thing again where now everything isn't scary.

>>375753545
I don't know, I've never played a Diablo game before so Souls was my first time experiencing this mechanic. And yeah, Dark Souls is fun to talk about because of the amount of variation you can have in a playthrough, but unfortunately a few autists ruined it for everyone.

>>375754194
What did you do anon

A lot of modern horror games even have a real failure state. Its mostly just a haunted house- walk around and get spooked but nothing can actually kill you.

If the games do atmosphere right this can work but most games dont do atmosphere right. /v/ likes to wank over Alien: Isolation and that was a decent stealth game but it didn't have any horror elements to speak of.

>>375731682
That doesn't sound hard. Just tedious as fuck. Why do people like tedious as fuck mechanics so much?

>>375726031
The only thing scary about RE4 was the dialogue.

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>>375754834
Nothing. That can ever be proven.

Haven't even pretended to read the article, but I can respect the idea that the ability to die and respawn in a horror game takes away the element of mortal terror on which the genre is meant to thrive.

>>375734797
It comes down to the quality of death scenes. RE:4 had good ones.

>>375725940
Kind of funny they put RE4 as an example there since that game adjusts its difficulty if you tend to suck.

>>375730518
Don't act like it's easy to not fuck up in Siren that game kills you left and right and if not you then your partner

>>375736818
>calls the game p2w
>people beat it without spending a cent all the time
>w-well the g-game is dumb so th-there

Go fuck yourself

>>375726031
>>375755817
Anons know
nu-nu-nu/v/eddit is a bunch of pussies who refuse to play videogames