Are shoot em ups the most hardcore game genre in existence?

fighting games are
next

STGs are pure skill games, you either are good at them or you're not

When it comes to single-player, yes
There are more hardcore genres like >>372684275 but they're competitive (played with other people, not single)
>>372684302
>you either are good at them or you're not
"Pure skill" literally implies that you can improve at them like any other skill

>>372684302
true

I think they and RTS are the most genetics based games

>>372684275
Fighting is certainly in the top of the top, but it's way more popular. For better or worse only extremely hardcore gamers play japanese shoot em ups and are able to clear them, and only 1/1000 of those are able to achieve respectable scores.

>>372684302
>pure skill
>can't improve at them

Cars Games

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>>372683518
you're forgetting the most hardcore single game in existence

>>372684485
you're very capped by your natural abilities in shoot em ups

sure you learn how to read patterns better but if you start out and can't make it to stage 3 of a cave or touhou game (on hard/lunatic) then you don't have the genes and brain wiring to be good at these games

>>372683518
>mindless grindmonkey memorization
>hardcore
no

>>372686810
>being this shitty baiter
You disgust me and my whole family.

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>>372684275
>>372683518
por que no los dos

no rts

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>>372686984
I'm sorry but not everyone has the genetics to get a ketsui 2ALL, nmnb lunatic SA, or garegga letter score.

I know you are probably some millennial who got handed participation trophies since you were shitting yourself so you think "everyone can be a winner!" but it's simply not the case in a highly difficult genre like fighting games, RTS, or shoot em ups.

Why can jaimers (best western shoot em up player who tops all the steam leaderboards in 100 hours for every game) be a god despite playing on a fucking pad through a converter and people that have been on the shmups.system11 forums for 10 FUCKING YEARS can't even 1cc dodonpachi or a touhou game on hard?

It's genetics. Just like height, dick size, intelligence. Skill at videogames, especially at difficult genres, is 90% genetics. Fucking get over it subhuman.

>>372687209
here's a (You) for the effort

>>372684302
Untrue. Most arcade STGs require memorization and diligence to 1cc. Skill seems to play a bigger part in more bullet-hell types, though even those can be learned.

How to gid gud at shmups? Spent a few hours playing Galaga some time ago and got crushed most of the time before even reaching level 15.

>>372688149
memorization in that you have routes to increase your score, or a way of dealing with a certain pattern, yes

but will you ever be able to 'memorize' this? no. You'll still have to have extreme skill in addition to knowing how to apply it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYXbbE3W36M

/v/ says shoot em ups are 'all memorization', they don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Shoot em ups and fighting games (not smash, which is not a fighting game, nor sfv, nor NRS shit) require the highest level of genetic quality. That's why they are niche and only played by an elite group.

>>372688425
lel @ this post

>>372688425
>it's another dumb jaimers fanboy
Do you think he just picks up a game and clears first try? You think he didn't grind out a savestate to practice that TLB?
I guess it's easier justifying why you're shit at STGs by blaming genetics. Even then, you could argue the ability to learn or put effort into beating them is all genetics.

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>>372689091
>I guess it's easier justifying why you're shit at STGs by blaming genetics. Even then, you could argue the ability to learn or put effort into beating them is all genetics.
>shit at STGs

really makes me think...

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I don't waste your time talking about Shmup on /v/ or in 4chan in general.

We should call them salty the general.

>>372689270
i-is that supposed to prove that you're not shit?

>>372687021
>That time counter
Winning a defensive win in that game must be mindnumbing

>>372689270
>2-3
>that score
>not shit at STGs
But I guess you're pretty good compared to the cabinet collecting dads.

>>372689270
>>372689091
also before you say YOU'RE SCORE IS A SHIT like I know a retard like you will

remember that

1. I have less than 30 hours in the game and less than 70-ish in the genre
2. I used no route.
3. I qualified for the second loop by dying under 2 times

so I think we can establish while I am not good and will never claim to be (because I lack the brainpower/genetics to be good), that I am not "shit" especially given the time I've put in

>>372689505
Was that English?

>>372689592
>you're not allowed to call me bad because I'm a beginner and play like a retard
ok

>>372689580
I never use routes and never play for score, I just oogabooga'd my way through the game. I qualified by dying under 2 times and have only gotten my toes wet at this point in the genre.

Anyway this isn't about my score, he said I was 'shit' and making an excuse. I know I will never be good, that's the point, because of genes, but I'm not terrible, no.

It's not about my score. It's that I got to 2-3 with no routing or chaining whatsoever with minimal time in the genre.

>>372689784
Why don't you share your score then, if you're so talented?

>>372689580
Hey! That's just mean. I am a cabinet collecting dad and I am not that shitty on shmups. I can 2 all cyvern on my bootleg nova PCB you twat.

>>372689671
Yeah sorry we aren't all burgers here.

>>372689989
>Why don't you share your score then, if you're so talented?
I wasnt the one claiming to be good based on a bad run in low playtime though. I'm not talented at all and you will find out if you are at a much later point if you continue that far.

>>372690165
I never claimed to be good (nor will I ever be genuinely good I don't think). What the hell are you talking about. I just said I wasn't SHIT. You said I was shit and I proved to you that I got halfway through a fairly difficult looped game. Stop moving the goalposts.

We all know every other answer than RTS is just purely dishonest.

>>372690108
Sorry, daddy. Please don't whip me with the belt again.

Nah even rocket league takes way longer to master than any shmup, you can't really memorize that shit

Schmups aren't even hard. The secret to all of them is to stare at your character and the general vicinity around it and dodge the bullets while just holding down the fire button and hope you chip th boss. Instead people play it like a normal shooter and stare at what they are shooting at instead

>>372690836
post you're scores

>>372690836
That's just the secret to clearing a Touhou game on normal mode. Looking at the enemies and killing them before things get too crazy is smarter, since most of the time it's just streaming bullets, and thus, you don't have to stare at your ship.

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>>372690165
>>372690286
The 2 point of view are valide. even if I still think training and repetition
prevails more than natural aptitudes like good memory and reflex.

You people should make peace by playing Side arms or dogyuun in co-op.
>>372690591
Nan anon I would never hit you but you better go play Cyvern cause it's awesome. (emulation is better know I think)

>>372683518
If you're 1ccing yeah.

>>372690984
>since most of the time it's just streaming bullets
You mean like in SA? Yeah man. That totally works all the time.

>>372690984
>since most of the time it's just streaming bullets,
>touhou

what the fuck am I reading nigga

>>372691109
I'll assume this is a cry for help. Which parts are giving you trouble?

>>372691109
>>372691275
Since it must not have been obvious, I was talking about other STGs. I know 2hubabbies often forget they exist.

I find the control scheme to be a bit too simple for it to be truly hardcore. Don't get me wrong - It's hard as fuck, but all you have to do is move left or right.

Compare to a hardcore game like Monster Hunter where every action has weight to it, just moving around and keeping the monster in your sights has a skill ceiling.

Shmups is the purest videogame genre,its all about simplicity,addictive gameplay and music.

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IYO, what's the single most difficult part of any shoot 'em up ever?

I'm going with this or the CUUUUUBES

>>372691393
You'll probably like bullet-hells like CAVEshit or Touhou more. They have some interesting scoring systems. Saying this as a fellow MHfag that only plays solo.

>>372691647
Any specific recommendations?

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>your favourite shmup dev team doesn't exist anymore

Say her name /v/

Let's get this out of the way.
hori >>>> verti

>>372686810
>genetics make you good at stgs
Good joke /pol/. I'm a complete mutt, mostly black, american. When I first started playing I couldn't even survive stage 1 of a cave game reliably and now I can shit all over every game they've ever released. The only physical skill involved in stgs is just learning to control your ship/character accurately which will take a few months at the most. Literally everything else is mental growth, much like drawing. The height of skill in this genre is just learning to predict the trajectories of hundreds of bullets all at once so that you know where you need to move well in advance of actually making the input. I imagine a woman might have a bit more trouble with it because their eyes can't judge distance and whatnot as well but any man whose learning curve plateaus in this genre is suffering from some mental hangup, not genetic inferiority of all things.

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>>372691798

>>372691806
>2017
>not playing topsy-turvy upside-down shmups

>>372691806
That a fact.

>>372691834
Learning the system is a big part of it too. Also no North American has Cleared Black or white label of dodonpachi without macros or a full loop.

>>372691834
>Good joke /pol/

Who said anything about /pol/? Pazzy is black (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZbduX7SK4 or indian or something idk but he has dark skin based on his hands) and he has the ketsui and DOJ western WRs and is close to the Japanese ones. You're a retard for reading /pol/ into my post. My one steam friend is black and he's great at videogames and extremely intelligent and gets immediately very talented at anything he tries.

lmao at that train of thought to link what I said to /pol/- develop reading comprehension.

Just played through the entire Gradius franchise.

Why is 4 so fucking underrated and Gaiden so fucking overrated?

>>372692502
Because we didn't get Gaiden till the PSP collection. So it was over hyped. 4 Wasn't underrated as much as it wasn't played.

>>372692261
>keyboard

>>372683518
Only reason it's "hardcore" is because Bullet Hell games ate up all the attention of the entire SHMUP genre. There used to be games made in the genre regular people could enjoy.

>>372692660
This is why a lot of NA runs have big ol * on them. Either they run the games on emulators, which fucks up the game because how mame emulates SH2 cpu. So you will see a lot of american runs with *.

>>372692698
Most console shmups were like that. It got hard to sell a 2 hour game for 50 dollars.

>>372692775
Emulator play has no value. Many people in the Western shmup community openly encourage the use of hacked emulators to give yourself as much of an advantage as possible. Or in other words, cheat.

>>372692982
>Many people in the Western shmup community openly encourage the use of hacked emulators to give yourself as much of an advantage as possible.

....what?

are you talking about using savestates to practice? are you an autistic PCB collecting farmdad that can't stand that people don't want to spend 1k on a videogame?

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>>372692982
>hacked emulators

>>372692982
Also if you look at Scorer events in Japan its always on real hardware, on arcade sticks. The thing is learning how to play the game on a keyboard is actually putting you at a disadvantage if you actually want to play at the same level the top players do. Because your record is going to have that * on it.

>>372693157
True. The Asians don't fuck with anything but real hardware.

>>372693279
I will try and find the WR for those games and all the NA and international records have * on them for either using adaptors or macros.

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How many can you name without looking it up?

>>372693279
you also have to play in a real arcade, without the discuragement of having to spend money on every credit and other people hogging the machine you're giving yourself an unfair advantage!

>>372693478
Japanese play their games slowly. They play in a single quarter and its about trying to squeeze the most amount of time from 100 yen. And they might play that game for months.

>>372693478
Its not unheard of people buying or renting the PCB's in japan. They used to do that all the time for fighting games.

Just give me

1. Hori
2. Space
3. A kickass OST

and I'm sold.

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>>372683518
>hardcore this, hardcore that
what ever happened to playing vidya james for fun
;_;

>>372691750
touhou 8 imperishable night (not him)

>>372693914
"Fun" is now equated to "so piss-easy that a retarded limbless baby can't possibly fail it".

Why would I respect a game which doesn't respect me as a player?

>>372693914
If you're not trying to be the most hardcore player in the most hardcore game you're wasting you're fucking life, idiot

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What are some really good shmups?
I've been playing through alot of my old favorites and want some more obscure ones I might have missed.

>>372694578
anything but touhou is trash

>>372694024
Because this is a harmless pastime and not some sacred warrior marriage or something?

>>372694602
This isn't like reading a book. Games are a challenge, like training at the gym. My life was saved thanks to playing so many hard games.

>>372694602
Wrong. No woman is worthy of my seed unless she can 2ALL Dodonpachi DaiOuJou with a high score.

I don't even care about scores just want to get a 1cc.

>tfw last boss in deathsmiles is a huge difficulty jump

>>372694578
Zanac
Cho Ren Sha 68K
Mushihimesama/Futari

>>372683518
Why can't I 1CC mushihime /v/? Do I just suck?

>>372695949
because you're not putting in the effort

2d fighting games are, why? Because there arent any women playing 2d fighters apart from guilty gear games which are designed for women.

>>372696124
>implying there are women that play shmups,wargames,grand strategy or run and gun games either

Women in general shouldn't be the standard for anything

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>>372695852
If you're really desperate, you could always save up resources and spam bombs. It's what I usually do during that stupid boxes attack.

>>372691806
>not playing verizontals with the top half of the screen covered

>>372694578
look at >>372691000
Area 88/UN squadron are awesome games. Arcade version is more forward and harder SNES add shitones of thing but kind of too easy.

Hotdog storm is not that original but pretty solid to play.
Outzone rev B should be a big challenge (dont play rev 1 if you aren't up for the challenge)
Cyvern is a bless from the gods but the emulation is shit.

Want something obscure ? Life Fortress Volcabamba.

>>372696115
I practice anon I do. Even if I memorized the bullet patterns one just manages to scrape my hitbox

>>372695949
Because you aren't actually trying

>>372696124
I don't know of any women that play shoot em ups besides one girl that attentionwhores on the shmups forum and kamui (who is a tranny/biological male)

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>>372696124
>apart from guilty gear games which are designed for women.

LOL capcuk detected

>>372696910
Guilty Gear has more tranny players than Street Fighter

>>372697015
do you have a single fact to back that up?

the second best sf player at the moment is a spic tranny and the top gg players are all japanese guys (that aren't trannies)

if you're referring to /v/ trapfags, well they're secondaries that don't even play the game

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>tfw your pc is trash
>all the more recently released ports have system requirements above and beyond yours

>>372697256
Ricki Ortiz is a female (female)

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>>372697295
>Spent all my money on a Switch instead of upgrading my PC

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>>372697341

>>372697325
>Ricki Ortiz is a female (female)

really now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/7daedcfe-c674-4a97-8a1f-0c6185db14cd

saying other games are for trannies when the second best player of your game is a mexican tranny?

>>372696384
not enough bombs to cheese with when he starts to move around.

>>372683518
game....hardcore....LOL

>>372687209
Garegga letter score isn't even hard the fuck are you talking about

>>372697881
the wole post is a shitpost, why would you pick just that one thing

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>tfw I don't know what people see in Garegga
I'm fine with staying cave pleb

>>372698128
cause he should've worked his bait better, anyone can get a letter score in garegga

>>372683518
>Tiers
>Rhythm games
>Arcade shmups
>Fighting games

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>>372698131
>Garegga
R E A L I S M

>>372698131
you have taste, that's all

>>372698131
I think people just like saying "this is fine" after accidently dying

>>372698131
>>372698529
>cavefags
>taste
ayy

>>372698623
>implying I'm not primarily a psikyofag

>>372683518
ITT: fags who forgot roguelikes exist

>>372698337
You just have decent taste.

>>372698851
They're not that hard.

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>>372698623

>>372699356
garegga is no 1 according to schmucks forum

>>372699727
shh rest are cave

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So, can we all now agree that Whroon is the hardest Deathsmiles boss?

>>372699727
not this year!

>>372699727
DDP DOJ is #1

>>372699923
Except for the final boss(es) + EX bosses I have a better chance of getting hit by the Volcano boss and Sakura.

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>>372699923
Whispy Woods isn't that hard, Level 999 notwithstanding. His final pattern would be relatively difficult if it didn't have a safespot however.

The hardest one for me... I guess I would vote for the Volcano boss. Sometimes the falling rocks like to clip me and that always ruins the mood. Though I also get hit by Mary now and then when I'm not paying attention. This is not including the Canyon boss or Jitterbug/Tyrannosatan, all of which are of course harder than the main 6 bosses.

>>372688425
>Will you ever be able to memorise this?
Yes? that's exactly what the person in that video has done

>>372700593
Memorise it doesn't mean you can also able to dodge all that shit.

>>372700979
that's exactly what the person in that video has done

>>372700979
it means exactly that

>>372684275
Too many casual fighting games exist, and even the big hitters of the genre have been dumbed down.
Shmups are too niche to see a real wave of casualization.

>>372686810
>Muh superior Aryan gamer genes, folded one mirrion times by selective gamer breeding.

>>372692660
prom plays on keyboard and he still 2-alled DOJ several times on cabs when he went to some arcades in Japan, what's even your point

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No, ASCII roguelikes are.

>>372686810
>you're very capped by your natural abilities in shoot em ups
Someone swallowed /pol/s retardpills again.

>>372692982
there's absolutely no reason isaid NO REASON why someone who perfomed on mame would not be able to achieve the exact same scores on cabs

stay mad with your shit scores

>>372701702
more like the most autismal genre
>literally playing garbage dungeon crawlers that was made to pass time on minicomputers

>>372701795
>would not be able to achieve the exact same scores on cabs
It doesn't count until they do it though.

>>372693157
false, lots of them practice on console ports when available
just look at player like LPG, assy-san, fufufu or TTT they all used to stream their practice sessions on console games

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If you haven't 1cc pic related you're a shit pleb who doesn't even deserves to utter the word shmups

>>372701932
who gives a fuck about having his name in a magazine or excel chart no one read tho

>>372697881
oh hurr, time to have a small but equally miserable version of myself, even assumiing i could defeat 34 years of shame, virginity, le 'tism, and a microsopitic phizzmoto schlong to impregnate a girl and then she bears my crotchspawnling to term. help me build a playhouse dad. play catch with me dad. stop the inevitable reproduction of the cultural and material conditions in a pointless death race toward the never ending growth limit that's going to kill everything dad. make it so i'm ont completely atomized alienated and only to related to other so-called humans in terms of dollars/yuan/euros dad. sorry kid, all i can do is m-bate to hentai manga and play shmups. got a letter "b" score in battle garegga. that may sound weird to you now but trust me its really impressive.

>>372702167
>who gives a fuck
People that play shmups.

>>372684275
/thread

>memorizing patterns
>hardcore

no

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>>372683518

>>372702646
well this is just wrong

>>372703006
I bet you haven't even read orgy of the will faggot

>>372703159
nope

>>372702646
>puzzle games
>"need some skill"

lol

>>372703006
well this is just right*

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>>372691806
f you haven't 1cc pic related you're a shit pleb who doesn't even deserves to utter the word shmups

I love dabbling in these games, but I never get far. What are some tips for a newb playing Shmupmame? I like the first Gradius and R-type, also Mushi.

>>372703405
I don't play pixel retro indie shit

>>372703668
>doesn't even know what it is
found a pleb

>>372702205
cool pasta, but really getting a letter score in garegga is nowhere near as exhausting as something like ketsui 2all

>>372703316
(not true, by the way)

>>372703810
>>372703405
http://www.donbei.jp/kamo/game/

>>372703668
Die pleb scum

>>372703405
>casual shit where you can move the character as fast as you want
How did you get so bad at video games?

Bullet hell games are a meme. Otherwise yes.

>>372704362
>not getting it
How did you get so bad at internet?
the fuck is rayxanber 2? fuck off with your console shit.

>>372703668
neo /v/ pleb spotted

>>372704192
>>372705209
Spot the samefagging reddít pleb

>>372702646
I would put Arena FPS, RTS, and Fighting games in the same tier.
Any games where you will invariably win with better reads have limitless skill ceilings, no matter what, someone can figure you out better than you can figure them out, and if they can't, someone can and will come along and do it shortly.

Teams can make this quite muddy but I would say the same thing applies, just not at the same level as you will always have to rely on your teammates to keep up with your skill level or most of it will be going to waste.

>>372704776
>Shmups were always meant to played on pc!1!11!!!!1

Awww nah sweetie shmups weren't meant to be played with a keyboard. Try again sweetie.

>>372706505
Shmups weren't made to be played with anything specifically

I dunno, but RTS have by far the highest skill floor. It's why they have died out/have largely been replaced by MOBAs.

>>372706505
cabinet and stick

>>372702646
Smash is definitely pro tier.

>>372706505
who are you quoting?
>Awww nah sweetie shmups weren't meant to be played with a keyboard.
you can play with whatever you want in mame

>>372705880
>Arena FPS
>same tier as RTS and Fighting games
No

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>>372707248

>>372707292
what'dya mean no? Those 3 made the holy trinity of greatest skill-based genre complete.

>>372707436
Don't worry, I'm only referring to melee.

Is there a genre more shamelessly price gouged than shoot em ups?

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>>372706505
I'm too dumb to set up a simple arcade stick, look at me folks :^)

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>>372707535

>>372703006
I thought the same at first, but the list just has a different view on hardcore games. With the higher tier games being multiplayer. Some people don't find singleplayer games impressive, at all.

I'd definitely move smhups up a tier though. If you consider rhythm games, and puzzle games skillful, it's only fair to be up there.

>>372707940
Rhythm games? Beatmania PS2 CSs are expensive. With the most expensive one being 200+