Hearthstone is better than Magic. >no lands You always get

>>358499990
Here's your reply, now heck off.

>>358500198
Nice non argument, totally proves my points wrong. Fucking fanboys.

>>358500281
Your points prove themselves wrong. Smaller decks and no lands reduces the challenge of deck construction, I'm not even going to mention how retarded saying HS is more balanced is, fatigue vs instant death is personal preference, and of course the client for a simpler game is better.

>>358499990
I agree, especially on the lands part, but to say that HS's card pool is expanding is tricky. Keep in mind that they plan to remove cards from old expansions from standard play on a yearly basis. And that kind of ruins the idea.

>>358500874
>lands are a good mechanic

L O L
O
L

>>358500993
Learn to build a deck with a good curve.

>>358501017
Learn to play a good game.

>>358499990
>Hearthstone
>balanced
Pick one

>>358501047
>hs
>good game
even shadowverse is better than this

>>358499990
Shadowverse does everything Hearthstone does but better

>>358501047
I already am, thanks.

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>>358501097
this.

>>358501127
>low player health makes games too fast
>ridiculous amount of comeback mechanics
>animeweeb aesthetics

>>358499990
I can't speak for Magic since I haven't played it, but Hearthstone has become a fucking dreadful game. I used to like it a lot, up until Whispers of the Old Gods. For whatever reason Blizzard only ever favours the decks that require no brainpower or skill to win with (at least in constructed), or they force everyone to play control warrior, midrange shaman or freeze mage. There's no room for mixing things up or trying fun combo decks, since all the aggressive decks just completely shit on them. Hearthstone has become "no fun allowed" incarnate.
Now Gwent, that's a game I can get behind. Excited to see what's in store for that game

>>358501193
>low player health
Literally what

>>358499990


Hearthstone is fun for a while. I've played the game since beta, but it's just too shallow to really hold ones interest in the long-run.

The same reasons why the game is so popular, it's easy and accessible, hold it back for players who've played it for a long time.

>>358501269
Not to mention the insufferable RNG bullshit that keeps getting more and more embedded in every deck

>Can't destroy or lock enemy mana crystals
>Fatigue system makes mill decks a joke
>Unbalanced just enough to make the game unfun

I've barely played Magic and I don't have a real opinion on it, but Hearthstone is horrible.

>Kodo
>It's a Rhynox, not a Kodo.

>>358499990
(You)

>>358499999

>>358501193
>One class has a mechanic where some of their cards get improvements when below 11 hp
>ridiculous amount of comeback mechanics
(you)

>>358500000

>>358501193
>>358501397
And vengeance sucks, too.

>>358501193
Minions are less overstatted in return. Aggrodecks win on more or less the same turns.
Which is good you aggro dipshit.
I agree, the art is much better.

lands are fine, it's a card game variance will exist always. also mulliganing exists

milling is a game mechanic, if you want to play a deck that mills your opponent you should be able to

depending on what you play balance is fine, is there even like a consensus #1 modern deck right now? infect? I'm

yeah mtgo is pretty bad but the option to play irl more than makes up for it

the only real argument against mtg is price, not everyone has $500 for a mid-tier modern deck because they've never reprinted 10 year old cards

>>358501397
Not to mention that Vengeance is also a horrible mechanic, preventing is better than curing. But in our current meta it gets completely neglected, too.

>>358499990
>>balance
>Everyone shits on Hearthstone for balance, but its infinitely better than fucking Magic, the least balanced game in the history of mankind.


nah

hearthstone is the most unbalanced piece of shit game
I agree with most almost everything, but balance in HS is a massive fucking issue

>>358501193
>low player health makes games too fast
cards generally have way fewer stats relative to their cost in SW and aggro shit is a lot easier to remove.

>>358501345
Making stuff cost more is essentially HS's answer to land/mana crystal destruction. Remember when Loatheb was in literally every single deck? It wasn't exactly fun.

>>358501397
vengeance is shit. Slow decks aren't going to get you low until it's advantageous for them and fast decks will just smash your face in if you get in vengeance range. Bloodcraft is just an awfully designed class in general.

At least with land you can build a multicolor deck rather than locking cards to classes, but I was more of YGO player anyway.

>>358502058
Try Elder Scrolls Online, they have a multiclass sort of system without lands.
They just divided the cars into a few colors, and different colors synergize with each other.

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This thread proves blizz shills are real.

Hearthstone is designed to take your money. At least with Magic you can physically own the cards.

>>358499990
both are shit

has there even been same player winning tourneys in hearthstone? its always some random guy because its super rng. meanwhile in mtg good players place top every year because it requires actual skill and not rng to win

>>358502156
Even more importantly, you can sell cards for profit.

>>358502156
>Buy a $1,500 dollar card
>It gets banned the next week
>Have to buy a new $5,000 deck to be competitive

>>358502267
The top players have like 60% winrate overall, so its not a coin toss.

Hows the new commander 2016 treating you?

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>>358502302
wtf i hate mtg now

>>358502314
>60%
pffffhahaha

>>358499990
Yugioh is better than both

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>>358502314
more like 20%

>Battlecry: Deal random damage to random number of random minions
Man, Hearthstone sure is deep

>>358502483
>nothing but one deck formats
>games are decided on the first turn
>deckbuilding is the only skill involved, zero technical play
Naaah

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>>358502314

>60%
jesus christ, its worse than I imagine

>>358502302
Yeah well, if you are competitive to that level in MTG you'd kinda keep up with discussions about banning current set cards in tournaments.

No sane individula would buy a card at that price wihtout checking its playability.

>>358502302

is there a story behind this?

>>358502694
The story of a fishhook with a worm at the end.

>>358502302
>>358502397
>Vintage bans 37 cards and restricts 40-50 cards to one copy per deck
>There's 16k+ unique cards

Unless something has made the card blatantly overpowered, it's extremely unlikely for anything to get banned. Mirrodin and Urza blocks are an exception to this, though.

>>358499990
>>/tg/

I feel like it's impossible to have a lot of cards and good balance.
Magic has a shit ton of cards but isn't balanced as you say, hearthstone has less and is more balanced.
Sure hearthstone is getting more cards, but it hasn't even been out that long and they already had to limit the cards that people can play in normal mode.
Sure there's wild mode, but that is now just as unbalanced as magic, and it will get more and more unbalanced as new cards get added.

>>358502887
Hearthstone is a video game.
MtG has a video game.
You are retarded.

>>358502314

The sad thing is, the winrate for top players was higher year or two ago. I just hope they stop printing insanely strong RNG cards like tuskarr totemic and yogg.

>>358502825

lol vintage is barely even recognized by wotc I doubt they'll ever ban anything again

>>358502267
I feel like that also comes down to the fact that having a really good magic deck costs a fuck ton, and random people can't easily get into the tournament scene.
Sure, you need to get good cards in HS too, but I feel like the money barrier is nowhere near as big.

>>358503063
well they did nerf both of the cards.
Tuskarr only summons basic totems now, which is a huge nerf, and yog stops casting spells if he kills himself with one of them, which isn't THAT big of a nerf, but still.

>>358503071
you're dumb as fuck., vintage gets degenerate cards restricted all the time if they become too omni-present. cruise and dig are examples

>>358502994
Of course only a fraction of the card pool will ever be relevant. In Magic that's down to a combination of the majority of cards being designed for limited, and some cards just being bad on purpose to serve as a teaching tool for newer players.
But there is a far greater variety of decks doing well at top tier tournaments in Magic.

>>358502756

that's somewhat disappointing maybe?

>>358503241

yeah I'm sure the cruise and dig bans greatly affected the 11 people who play vintage

>>358503243
>and some cards just being bad on purpose to serve as a money making tool for WOTC
at least be honest about it

>>358503217

Yeah, that is why I picked both of them as example. Even Blizzard recognized how broken the RNG was. Tuskarr totemic had some crazy win rate % if it managed to summon one of the good non-basic totems. Yogg was still played at the Blizzcon after the nerfs.

>>358502994
>Magic isn't balanced
Well, that depends on your definition of balance. For starters, the MtG design team purposefully makes bad cards for a variety of reasons, so "all cards being equal" was never intended.
Secondly, MtG cards don't exist in a vacuum, and cards that would be completely broken in a specific format are unplayable in others.
If you mean deck balance, modern has at least 6 viable, very competitive decks, which is healthy enough for a cardpool of ~12,000 cards

>>358503071
OK, modern consists of approximately 50 sets and has 30-40 banned cards. I don't know how many sets there are in standard these days but a quick check shows there are no banned cards in standard.

The point remains the same, MtG cards don't get banned unless it is absolutely necessary. While Blizzard has no clue what to do with too powerful cards like Warsong Commander and essentially replaces them with a new card to wipe the problem away.

>>358503375
Hearthstone has more than six decks that go to tournaments.

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>>358499990
>Luckstone

Who here faeria boys?

>>358503364
on the other hand they did print fucking barnes which has the potential to be tuskarr 2.0 with the shit it can pull

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>>358499990
That's fine, just keep playing RNGstone

>>358503416
Game's fun as shit, wish there was less random elements but I love the integration of territory control mechanics. Now they just need to add more tile destruction/conversion and more special tiles.

Also they need to make Pandora stop locking Green for me. Last two runs it hasn't let me use my favorite color, it's some bullshit.

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>animeweeb aesthetics
It's actually pretty good.
Not going to give that guy a reply tho.

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>>358503583
And another one. Bad card, great art.

>>358499990
>Being able to act only on your turn.
>No stack
>No graveyard
>No flying, first strike, protection, snow-cowered plains walk

>>358503493
I find the low amount of Luck in faeria a non issue give that even pro players cant play 100% optimal turns given the skill required in every turn

>yfw Duel of Champions closed last month ; ;

>>358503762
>>Being able to act only on your turn.
When it's an online game, I don't mind that one bit. I don't want to lose a game because I couldn't act simply because my opponent is from Indian Microsoft tech support with 0,1 MB/s internet.

OP i agreed with you until the most recent expansions. Blizzard has shown that they cant design cards for shit and are absokutely retarded in balacing cards. One night in karazhan is one of the worst expansions of all time, in any card game, and magic has had some real stinkers.

>>358503725
>>358503583
Now post Alucard or any of the fairies.

>>358503804
It's not a horrendous amount and I understand why they do it but it makes a lot of Red really unappealing to play, as well as a few core Green cards. But then I'm far from pro, so maybe I'm just too scrubby to deal with it.

Doesn't matter when the game is 6 turns long

>>358502397
Cute dog

>>358503824
>When it's an online game, I don't mind that one bit. I don't want to lose a game because I couldn't act simply because my opponent is from Indian Microsoft tech support with 0,1 MB/s internet.

You have not played mtg at all, have you?

>>358503402
How many end up top 8 in 100+ player tournaments?

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>>358503934
Is this a fairy?

>>358503934
>Fairies & a vampire don't like giant hulking badasses
wtf i hate shadowverse now

>>358503990
Most do, since tournaments in HS demand that each player brings several decks.
Each deck is played, and thus each deck goes far.

>>358503762
>>No flying, first strike, protection, snow-cowered plains walk
Your other 3 points may have some varying degrees of validity, but that whole last one was just pure "wahh why is this different thing different" stupidity.

>>358503402
To be fair, if banning/multiple class format didn't exist the game would have no variety.

Also not all the viable decks are interesting.
>Midrange shaman
>zoolock
>tempo mage
>Secret hunter
and I'm sorry control warrior is fucking boring as shit, it's always been boring.

>>358503762
graveyard heavily depends on how the designers tackle it
wouldn't want a yugioh style graveyard so inconsequential it might as well be a second hand

>>358503980
>play card
>waiting...
>no response
>play card
>waiting...
>no response
>attack
>declare attackers
>waiting...
>no response
>declare blockers...
>waiting...
>waiting...

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>>358501193
yes, Hearthstone's aesthetic is far superior.

>>358504019
>since tournaments in HS demand that each player brings several decks.
If you have to force your playerbase to bring multiple decks to create an illusion of diversity, that's not saying anything flattering about your game.

>>358501338
Yogg is great though, but maybe that's just me loving things that rain havoc indiscriminately

>>358504224
>>358503583
>>358503725
Nice cherrypick, laddie.

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I prefer the land control in PvZ

>>358502156
>>358502298
It's so baffling to me. Every magicfag always brags about how magic is so much better because apparently every single magic player is not only playing completely for free but generating money out of nowhere in a paradoxically impossible circle where everyone is profiting, so how does wizards stay in business?

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>>358499990
>HS instead of ShadowVerse


At least pick the one that actually can rival MtG in terms of fun if you're going to bait. It does everything HS does but with a little more balance, plus all of the classes are creatively applied. Fuck even the babys first Face deck has some fun dynamics with the Officer/Commander shit. They used premade assets from Rage of Bahamut, sure, but it's clear they actually used that saved time and money to make a fucking fantastic card game.

>>358504230
>If you have to force your playerbase to bring multiple decks
>force

If you have to FORCE your player base to bring a deck at all, your game has no decks.
If you have to FORCE tournaments participants to play your game, it must be garbage.

Fucking moron.

>>358504183

Meanwhile your opponent times out and you win. Then you can find an opponent who doesn't have a southeast Asian isp and actually play

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>>358504280

>>358503493
I dislike Pandora because the getting bad treasures is a loss

>>358503762
>>358504124
Hearthstone does have a "graveyard" but as far as I know only 2 cards (N'zoth and Anyfin) interact with it and only 6 cards (Hex, Sap, Vanish, Entomb and both Polymorphs) can remove creatures without sending them to it.

>>358504027
>Your other 3 points may have some varying degrees of validity, but that whole last one was just pure "wahh why is this different thing different" stupidity.

It is not "wahh why things is different" is more like "wahh they had opportunity to make really complex and interesting combat and instead we have this boring shit."

>>358504334
Resurrect and Onyx Bishop

>>358504330
Yeah, exactly my face when you claim people following the tournament rules equals the company forcing them to do something.

>>358504334
priest has gotten a few revive cards over time

>>358504334
You can remove creatures by transforming them to something else as well - Evolve, Mulch, etc.

>>358504334
Oh I also forgot Onyx Bishop and Resurrect as well as N'zoth and Anyfin. There's probably more non-graveyard removal too, I guess Sylvanis and Mind Control count.

>>358504331
I just play it to level the playing field so I don't get whomped on by minmaxed netdecks with 3x of all the good legendary cards. I've got, like, one of that one red dragon guy and the super gay Eredon green guy. And I think I dusted the ogre king.

>>358504386
I would hardly call any of the mechanics you listed "really complex and interesting". They're all pretty straight forward.

They're different games and they do different things. The one you prefer isn't the objectively 100% correct way to do everything just because you prefer it.

>>358504398
>There's only 9 different classes
>Everyone has to be able to play at least 4 classes to participate in tournaments
>"Oh yeah, there's so much class variety! We must've done something right when we designed this game."

I still prefer one deck and a sideboard.

>>358504608
You're right. The one he prefers is objectively 100% superior for other reasons.

>>358504230
They probably make them play several games so that players wouldn't get eliminated from tournaments because they had bad luck for one game and lose because of pure RNG.
Now they lose because of RNG for 3 games.

>>358504271
>Beastcall Aria/Elana
>Ancient Elf/Roach
>DShift
>Seraph
>Forte
>Any of the above being 'balanced'

>>358504634
>ban old cards
>oh wow, players bring so many new cards to tournaments, i guess we are doing something good and advancing the game!
Your arguments are so shit and so easily turned against you its laughable.

>i still prefer
Its a free country, you are allowed to have bad taste, and we are allowed to mock you for it.

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>>358504032
Midrange Shaman is literally the only fun thing in Hearthstone aside from Oil Rogue.

Shadowverse is cool since there's little RNG, but the tradeoff is that it heavily favours an aggro/midrange meta. The low health pool combined with evolution and some bullshit cards are obvious attempts by the devs to end the game by turns 6-8.

Might as well just delete control from the game.

>>358499990
I agree on the lands part, but HS is still such a turd of a game I honestly don't understand how anyone can play it seriously instead of a time waster on your phone.

Even that weeaboo clusterfuck of force of will does it better.

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play Shadowverse

>>358504725
Is this bait? That deck is braindead, how do you find a deck that pilots itself fun?

>>358499990
Nah, Hearthstone allows alot of wacky shit due to being entirely digital, things like evolve cards, summoning random shit out of nowhere and flipping entire mechanics upside down.
It's fun because of this but overall it's pretty shallow compared to Magic.

And while negativ thinking shitters always complain about mana it's a big part of why Magic has way more depth compared to Heartstone's one crystal per turn and that's taking into account classes and cards that spice it up a bit.
In Magic your Lands and Mana pool, not necessarily the same thing, have a multitude of uses and ways to be aquired even denied.
It's an integral part of your deck building in general, especially if you have a deck that does more with lands or mana than just use it as basic fuel for cards.

Also the combat is way more complicated due to not being able to attack creatures directly, making cards that have "taunt" or can't be blocked way more valuable than in Hearthstone, also leaving it up to you if you want to tank damage to retaliate later or directly fight for the board control.
Another part is that creatures regenerating each turn means you got to go out of your way to dispose large threats instead of often just conveniently chipping at them like in Hearthstone.

Don't get me wrong I like both games and Hearthstone is my go to game if I just want to have a few quick card game matches but anyone who says it's better balanced or deeper than Magic needs to be shot.

>>358504696
I said a little more.
I don't deny that there is undeniable bullshit in either game.

>>358504271
>Forestcraft has been a solid T1 class since the fucking beta
>Aria and Garuda
>Cynthia and Tia and Roach
>Rune having like 20-80 against aggro, but 80-20 against control
>Shadowverse is balanced

What did he mean by this?

>Magic
>can get all the cards I need for a basic competitive deck for usually under 100
>hearthstone
>it's all randomized

Nah

>>358504712
>ban old cards
>oh wow, players bring so many new cards to tournaments, i guess we are doing something good and advancing the game!

How is this any different from Hearthstone banning Naxx and GvG from official tournaments when they introduced the standard format?

>>358504821
Ah, here we go, the "convenience equals lack of depth" meme. If its not torturing you with bad AI and tabletop pen&paper mechanics on your PC, it must be shallow.

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>>358504776
Any deck that's strong in a given meta considered "braindead" or "autopilot" so that criticism means very little.

>>358504910
Why would it need to be different? I am saying your argument is garbage, because it doesn't do what it think it does - it doesn't prove MtG to be better than HS.
Yes, your logic can apply to both, so it doesn't make one superior.

>>358499990
It's only really worth playing tavern brawls since then everyone is on the same page.

I don't understand how competitive collectible card gaming ever became a thing. It's just such a shitty concept.

>boot up Tekken
>can't only use punches because I didn't buy the kicking DLC

>>358504267

What the fuck are you talking about?

The point about selling cards is, that you can actually get some of the money back when you quit the hobby or scale it down. Every dollar you spend on HS goes straight into your battle.net account, and people are not ready to sell their accounts.

Also, with the growing popularity of MTG combined with the small pritings of older sets (and couple of asshole hoarders), the card prices keep rising. Got a full set of dual lands 7 years ago? You probably doubled your money.

>>358504929
Right, but I still can't comprehend why you even find that deck fun. To each his own I suppose.

>>358504992
>boot up WoW
>i'm only level 23 because i didn't play much, and the other faction has level 60 guys ganking

Shit game design, progression is a crutch, Super Mario best game ever.

>>358504929

Patron was far from braindead and autopilot.

>>358505123
Yeah but people still said it was because it was popular. This is video game culture 101.

yeah instead of land "rng" you have other kinds of bullshit rng added to the game because of how boring and simple the game mechanics are

here lets make this objective

hs>online magic
actual magic>>>>>>>>>hs

>CHAARGE FORWARD
>MY BLADE BE TURSTY
>MY BLADE BE TURSTY
>whirlwind sounds
>die at full health
I still miss warsong commander

>>358504334
I can honestly see HS adding a visible graveyard mechanic eventually, somewhere which shows your dead cards and more interactions with them

Also OP is a faggot. HS has its placr in being a fast paced time killer and enjoyable.
But MtG shits all over it in terms of content, thought needed and base mechanics and is a far more coherent and balanced game

>>358505091

>wow
>competitive

>>358505223
League of Legends is the biggest esport, and it has unlocks. What now?

i miss handlock

>>358505208
but the new warsong commander is so good! you just don't understand how powerful that ability is

t. Brode

>>358505167
Patron and Miracle Rogue involved a lot more decision making than midrange shaman which is just vomit shit on curve.

>>358505000
Yeah I'd love to see everyone doubling their money after having to buy 4 copies of vryins prodigy for $300+ and them now selling for only $20 each.

>>358505091
If hearthstone added a "only allow cards you both own" option it wouldn't be much of a problem.

And besides, only mongoloids play WoW competitively, but there's really no way around Hearthstone being one.

>>358505251
LoL is also really fucking shit. What now?

>>358504968
>it doesn't prove MtG to be better than HS

That's a matter of opinion, I'm not trying to prove something like that. All I'm saying is that there is as much class variety as there is in Hearthstone simply because the tournament rules enable that. If it was one deck per player, the class distribution could look different. Perhaps there would be less decks or perhaps more, who know. Likewise it would be completely different if it was six decks and two bans.

Because of the major differences in the formats, you can't really compare MtG and Hearthstone tournaments to see which one has more tournament valid decks, which >>358503402 did.

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>>358505002
It's because Shaman has a fairly wide range of tools and options in general. Its design space, primarily Overload, allows it to in theory get away with some crazy things, and Shaman in general has an emphasis on high value creatures and board control that I can really appreciate. It's just sad that Hearthstone is such a clown fiesta that is more of a sideshow than it is an actual game. I have not played in a little over a year and I will not return. Shadowverse, for as flawed as it may be, makes playing Hearthstone a complete waste of time and even slightly rekindled my interest in Magic again. I could go for a Jund spree right about now.

>>358505123
People still considered it as such. And as someone that played Patron as well, much of the difficulty in playing the deck was artificial.

>>358505264
When it came out I tried to make a deck around it, a charge focused deck.
After playing a few games and changing a few cards, I removed it.
A deck build around a card is better if you remove that card. It doesn't even fit into its own dedicated deck. Its THAT shit.

>>358505253
Same, the molten nerf was too far. Molten Giant made players think before they attack, guess that was too hard to process for some shitters though.

>>358505251

yeah and those unlocks exist because of chinese microtransaction overlords and are one of the biggest points of contention about the game

>>358503994
MUH

>>358505397
fuck off nerfie

>>358505167

I was playing against shitty patrons at rank 20 that would lose against my f2p deck.

How do you not climb as a Midrange Shaman? Mulligan like a retard? Forgetting to hero power?

>>358504608
>I would hardly call any of the mechanics you listed "really complex and interesting". They're all pretty straight forward.

But there are lots of them. And that's what makes combat more complex and interesting.

>>358502267
the system to get into tourney brackets is to go through qualifiers, kind of like pools in the fgc. a lot of players consistently make it through pools and preliminaries

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Typical Shadowverse art

When was the moment you realised that Hearthstone will forever stay trash and stopped playing it?
WotOG for me. Yogg and his "flip a coin to win the game" was the last straw.

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>>358505571
Typical Hearthstone art

>>358505580
Goblins vs Gnomes because I breath through my nose.

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>LOL hearthstone is such a fucking scam blizzard are total jews just looking to steal peoples money
>c-competitive magic decks are actually super cheap! and with m-muh reselling cards you'll actually wind up MAKING money by playing it! because people are totally buying the cards for even more money after theyre no longer competitively usable, trust me!

>>358505571
EXUSPLOSIOOON

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>>358505478
No

>>358505486
You say that as if Patron wasn't fucking dirt cheap to begin with. It was one of the most budget decks of its time. And I played when Shaman was considered one of the worst classes in the game. It took nuking the cardpool for Shaman to get where it is now.

>>358505650
Megumin wishes she had boobs that big.

>>358505643
>>c-competitive magic decks are actually super cheap! and with m-muh reselling cards you'll actually wind up MAKING money by playing it!
Does anyone actually believe this? It sounds like something a used cars salesman would say.

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>>358505580
Trying to have fun in Arena and getting stomped by mages.

Then trying to have fun in wild casual then realizing Doctor Boom exists and he'll never be fixed because he's out of standard.

>>358502887
>/tg/
>>>/tg/50360561
I wish
my thread is dead

>>358505643
You can print MtG cards for pennies. If you for some reason couldn't, you could still write the effect on a piece of paper and use that.

>>358499990
Yugioh > Magic or HS desu

Competive Magic (Standart)>Hearthstone>Wild Hearthstone>>>The pile of shit that is Magic Duels>>>>Modern

>>358503994
INSTALLING NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

>>358505717
It can honestly be hard to tell with some of these magicshills always running around.

>>358505418
Handlock wouldn't even have been common considering that they were losing healbots. With no way to burst heal out of lethal range, molten giant wouldn't have been a problem at all, the nerf was clearly unjustified when they printed thing from below and arcane giants immediately following it.

>>358504257
>those two degenerate creatures in the screenshot

wew lad nightmares for days

>>358501017
They are many, many ways that you can say that Magic is better than Hearthstone, but the land mechanic is not.
A mechanic that makes ~25% of the games not games can't be good under any circumstance.

I know that it is too late to change it, but don't fool yourself. Building a deck with a balanced land/spell ratio can only make the non games appear less, but they will still happen.

>>358505801
Handlock just morphed into Renolock.

SV>MTG>>>>>HS>>>>>shit>>>>HS Wild>YGO

>>358505882
Me on the right

>>358505571
more like this is the average card art >>358505882

>>358505704
This was back when I first started, I had one legendary to my name and it was fucking vol'jin.

So it was more like a poverty deck, yeti's, boulderfist ogres, dark times.

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>>358505947
(You)

>>358505947
>shadowverse over mtg
>HS over YGO
You're daft

>>358505878
Me and my friends literally play "hearthstone mode" a lot when we play magic where we just separate out land into separate decks and draw one each turn. We cap out at 10 natural ones and can only get more with ramp cards that specifically bring out more.

We find it much more fun.

>>358504696
The only one where you have a semblance of a point are ancient elf and dsshift, and ancient elf will not win you a game.

Everything else can be dealt with by having a deck and playing around it once yo recognize what you're dealing with, ie vs dragoncraft you always expect forte all the time.

>>358505891
A deck that is two-thirds different, incredibly inconsistent, and doesn't play the same at all. Fun.

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>>358505754
>YGO apologists
Everyone laughs at you

>>358505998
The average Hearthstone player is an idiot, as evident by their game choice, so do not be surprised. There are also a lot of sandbaggers in low ranks.

>>358506056
Pretty much every master player on social media has said that Aria is completely broken. Forest doesn't even need to be talked about since it's had broken cards since beta even after nerfs.

It's fine to like SV, but to pretend that it's well balanced is hilarious.

>>358505704
Yes.

It was bad enough to see you in /vg/, how dare you follow me to this shit hole too.

>>358502150
>Elder Scrolls Card Game
>It's hearthstone with lanes and a rune break system to add even more rng
>The game isn't even out of beta and it has over 30 cards which all feature the keyword "random".
That card game is just setting itself up to take no skill at all and is uninspired as the rest of the Hearthstone knockoffs.

My biggest issue with Hearthstone over Yugioh and Magic is that the deck diversity is really limited, i hate the hero system. At least Magic lets you do silly multi-colour decks that're actually really strong, and Yu-gi-oh has a thousand different retarded hilarious gimmick decks of varying levels of viability.

Hearthstone just has zero interesting cards you can make a deck around.

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>>358499990

>>358506023
That actually sounds really fun, were the land decks shuffled or did you just set them up how you wanted to play them?

Are only basic lands allowed?

>>358506023
That is a good way.
Another way we usually do is by playing spells upside down as basic lands of that spell color. Multicolor spells give more than one color, but they ETB tapped.
One think I like about this mechanic is that bouncing lands to your hand usually means getting a new spell.

>>358506167
Too bad Konami castrates the fun decks that become meta.

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>>358506125
>It's fine to like SV, but to pretend that it's well balanced is hilarious.
It's more balanced than HS which only has one viable class right now.

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Both Shadowverse and Heartstone art is shit Shadowverse is worse though .
Why there can't be a well made card videogame with MTG tier art?

>>358505717
It depends on what you're aiming for. If you want to win the MtG world championship, your deck had better to be tried and tested. If you're fine with winning smaller tournaments, a cheap but clever deck can do the trick and be way more fun to play.

And if you simply enjoy playing MtG regardless of the deck you're playing, you can participate in draft and sealed deck tournaments and sell all the cards you get. If you have friends who play MtG, you can ask them to pay your entry fee and give them everything you win.

>>358506204
Congrats retard, you bumped a thread that you don't like. I hope you're proud of yourself.

>>358506232
Just 7 decks huh?

>more people playing sub 50% win rate decks than a 50% win rate deck
SV players are this retarded

>>358506125
I'd say Shadowverse is pretty well balanced, but I'm thinking relatively. There was a major tournament stream today where across 4/7 classes they saw play in about 8 distinct archetypes across 24 decks. Not divided by tech choices or hybrid builds either, all decks with different game plans running different core.

I've never played a Yugioh format that had that much variety, and most Standard Magic formats aren't that hot either.

>>358506231
Competitive decks are a joke, the fun is in making a coinflip or diceroll deck, or use forgotten gimmicks like /Assault Mode or Familiar-Possessed.

And while Yugioh cards require magnifying glasses to read at this point, it's hard to deny there's a lot of variety in the cards and that game has enough archetypes for ten different cardgames.

>>358506232
Every time I point out how poorly balanced SV is, everyone deflects back to Hearthstone. How sad.

>>358506283
What about resale value of cards? I don't quite believe what the Anons earlier were claiming.

>>358506214
We just used any lands and shuffled them like a normal deck. Though we always just fudge the rules to whatever lets us have more fun.

More people should try Eternal now that it came out in open beta on steam. It's basically hearthstone with all the depth of Magic minus all the RNG shit.

>>358506349
What's the stream name?

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Whether you're a magicfag or hearthfag we can both come together and laugh about one thing.


At least we're not fucking yugioh.

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>>358506253
Magic's art is pretty boring nowadays.

>>358506130
I am everywhere. For better or worse.

>>358506391
>Every time I point out how poorly balanced SV is, everyone deflects back to Hearthstone. How sad.
In case you didn't notice, this is a Hearthstone thread.

>>358506465
or pokemon

>>358506497
You're not in my bed, not that I was gunning for a hate fuck or anything.

>>358506465
What is going on

>>358506349
The decks that actually performed well were mid sword, ptp/tempo forest, and elana. It's basically the same meta as the tournament a few weeks ago.

Also worth noting that the stuff you saw like banner sword see very poor winrates when faced against the premier meta decks.

>>358506125
Every class has at least one strong archetype and every class sees play at top level. It is somewhat balanced. I would say the game needs a proper ft2 format for ranked, with sideboard, because the biggest issue I am seeing is that matchups are extremely swingy.

>ancient elf
>beastcall aria
>merlin
>petal fencer
>Forte
>vania
>cerberus

I had games with each of those cards where they were completely useless. You have to first build your deck around them and then play around them to get the advantage.

>>358506509
Oh, so it's just shills and disgruntled people bitching about HS. Makes sense.

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>>358506403
>Darude still not nerfed
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>358506584
Imagine your deck was Auctioneer, Malygos, 14 Innervates and 14 Sinister Strikes, and you are guaranteed to have Auctioneer in the opening hand.

>>358504696
Those are all viable strategies and I wouldn't call them cheap. Elana is annoying yes.

If you said Purgatory Forest, I'd agree.

>>358506624
>Every class has at least one strong archetype and every class sees play at top level.
Wrong. Dragon, Blood, and Shadow are very weak and one dimensional compared to the T1 decks. There's a reason why they have negative W/L ratios in Master.

>I had games with each of those cards where they were completely useless.
It doesn't matter what your D0 self thinks. What matters is assessment from top players in Masters like Railgun.

>>358504696
Why do people do this thing where they just list the best aspects of any character in a game and go zomg OP OP

>Forte

Dragon isn't even fucking good you shitter

>>358499990
>Amazing fatigue games
Don't tell me you're one of those mill deck people. Nobody got time for that shit.

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>>358506576
There's no need to be shy senpai

>>358506624
I want Shadowcraft's 4, 5, and 6 mana options explored more. There's 1 really solid card for each, one more okay one, and shit else. Plus I want midrange Shadow to be a thing.

>>358506548
Pokemon card game was quite decent till EX.
but I wouldn't say it's better than any other card game.

For all the shit Magic Duels gets, and yes it is shit compared to Hearthstone or actual Magic, atleast the playerbase is more pleasant.


Sure people quit in both games if they get their ass handed to them and in Magic people will leave immediatly after their third mulligan still shat on them but in Hearthstone the amount of players that just forfeit games in the first 5 or so rounds if something doesn't go exactly as they want, in a game where tides can turn pretty quickly is ridiculous.

Killed their favourite card? Leave
Didn't draw on curve? Leave
Random 1 dmg hit wrong target? Leave
Their epic combo gets countered but they still could beat you up within the next few turns? Leave

It got better once I left the trenches but this still happens far to often.

>>358499990

Magic the Gathering = 9/10
Shadowverse = 8/10

Jewstone = 3/10

Get cancer and die OP.

>>358503354
I hate how mtg operates and would rather is were a Living Card Game like some newer one where you don't have to collect.
But those cards are made bad for draft proposes.

>>358506789
blood and dragon are easily fine, blood in particular is degenerate as fuck, the only reason it's not better than sword is because control sword is the actual best one

Shadow just went from best deck to worst deck because it didn't get anything in the expansion. On the flipside, it's easily the best deck in Take Two.

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As high legend hs player and semi competitive mtg player I can tell that hs constructed is childs play compared to mtg in every aspect. Hs arena might come close in some aspects to mtg complexity, however hs arena cardpool is becoming too big to handle making it just a rngfest.

>Don't play MTG because the land system means you will dead draw no matter how you build your deck
>Don't play Hearthstone because it's watered down MTG with no ability to act on the opponent's turn and RNG is king
>Don't play Shadowverse or Elder Scrolls Legends because they're just Hearthstone with gimmicks
>Don't play Yugioh because every game is decided by turn 2
Here's hoping Gwent turns out good.

Cant wait for the expansion so all these aggro/tempo shitters get BTFO by mages and priests new board clears.

>>358506997
I have the exact opposite experience. Magic players leave all the time, and Hearthstone players continue playing already lost games.

>>358504124
It's funny that in yugioh the grave is relly a second hand, and the Removed From Game is a third.

>Bloodcraft
The one deck I'll never use in Ranked
It's just too shit
The other 6 are fine though.

>>358506997
There is no reason to continue playing the match if you get a shit draw and your opponent gets a better RNG than you.
If the meantime you try to comeback from this shit you can play 2 games.

>>358507069
>Shadow just went from best deck to worst deck because it didn't get anything in the expansion. On the flipside, it's easily the best deck in Take Two.
Agreed. Shadow is my go to in Take Two
Actually, even in Ranked, Shadow has done me wonders. I carried me to B1. I have yet to try it past that (the dailies are so hard now. Win FOUR ranked?!!)

Shadowverse is kinda shallow
Once it was figured out, did not feel there was much variance in decks

>>358507128
Every card game is just magic with gimmicks :^)

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>>358507069
>T-trust me! E-everything is f-fine! I'm D0 but I k-know!

Anon, the stats don't lie.

>>358507128
You should try Shadowverse. It's similar to Hearthstone but no real RNG and it's better in every regard.

>>358507128
Check out the Exodus card game.

>>358507329
Magic is just Uno with gimmicks.

>>358505753
You would get thrown out of my local store for that

>>358507336
that's not really a big difference in winrate at all, compared to virtually any other card game meta

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>>358506334
>class in class-based CCG equals deck
Not sure if retarded or suffered brain damage because of jewstone.

>>358507336
Not him. What's it saying? Red is win, blue loss? Or vice versa?

>>358507508
Where are the PTP decks?

>>358500874
Didn't Garfield admit that lands were mistake since they lead to unfun situations like mana screw/flood?

>>358507508
>>358507336
Pretty good stats. What's the issue?

>>358506391
Well, there is no simple rule for resale value, but there are a few consider worthy facts:

1) Old cards get reprinted and added to standard. If the card is good, you might be able to sell your older copies for a decent price if you bought it when it wasn't part of the standard. But if you hang on to it after it leaves standard, the price might drop because the card is now available in multiple expansions, which lowers its overall rarity.

2) Some very old cards are unlikely to ever get reprinted so their value stays the same or increases as time passes. They are in general safe investments, but not necessarily very profitable.

3) You can buy cards from people who don't realize their worth to make easy profits. In early 2000s you could find MtG cards at flea markets and such with pricing way below their real value. I don't know if this still happens these days, but I got most of my strongest cards ridiculously cheap because the guy selling them had no clue about their value.

In general, I'd be doubtful if someone said that they can earn money and build a top tier simply by buying and selling cards, but I wouldn't say it's absolutely impossible. If you invest some money (a few hundred dollars for example) on packs and start building a deck out of what you got and sell everything that doesn't fit into it, then perhaps you could actually get a decent deck out of it and earn at least some of that money back.

>>358507552
Red is win rate for going first
Blue is win rate for going second.

>>358506636
I'm more pissed that they slaughtered Cunning and Scouting Party
Witching Hour is even more useless now
and I unpacked fucking 2 of them
and clockroaches being killed is also pretty shit

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>>358507336
>>358507701
wow you really want to go first in this game

>>358507008
Nice numbers

>>358507593
Google translates it either as Heimu or Netherworld.

>>358502314
Yes it is, the coin is three times thicker and weighted on one side.

>>358507480
I would burn down the store, then.

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>>358507629
>>358507502
>-5% W/L i-isn't big at a-all!

Remember when HS had an 8% discrepancy and everyone was bitching nonstop?

>>358506653

NotLikeThis

>>358507789
Funny, because everyone claims going second is best.

>>358507994
Giving going second three evos is absolutely retarded. The extra draw is already perfect.

i'm playing this card game that i find more fun than both hearthstone and shadowverse but everytime i post it on /v/ no one give a fuck

what am i supposed to do? i just want other /v/irgin to play the game because i like it

>>358507932
5% is pretty big but still not horrendous. I can't think of any other game that has it better or a method to fix it.

I wasn't there for HS, but 8% is definitely way too big.

>>358507635
>You can buy cards from people who don't realize their worth to make easy profits
You can exploit people who don't know any better. This is the best advice for making money off MTG but it applies to fucking anything which should go to show that you won't make money off MTG.
All you end up with are a thousand dipsticks who were told they can sell their tournament winnings to make dosh then they realise they weren't one of the few to win and wasted all their money.

>>358508043
Dunno. Maybe if you evolve at the same time, it would be better?
The extra card ISN'T enough.

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>>358508106
>5% is okay
>8% is not okay

SV must be your first TCG. It's okay, we were all new at one point.

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>>358508084
that was my feel like 4 years ago

just wait until it inevitably dies

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>my face when people are arguing over 5% win rate differences
It can always get worse.

>>358505878
>25%
lol

>>358508206
I mean, you just admitted to having played Hearthstone.

You should consider that not everyone has necessarily always been as retarded as you, and that you may not have necessarily gotten better with time yourself.

>>358508110
This is what I was implying, but you said it more bluntly. Starting to play MtG to make money is a bad idea.

>>358508206
Each percent is a few hundred victories. We have to set a standard. Just like p-value is 5%, so I have set 5% to be acceptable.

It's my second TCG, and it's not a TCG but a CCG.

>>358508254

no anon you are supposed to ask me about it so i can tell you about it

please,PLEASE, GIVE A FUCK! i implore (you)

>>358508106
Due to RNG, the goal of crafting decks in card games isn't to reach 100% stomping wins, but to build consistency. What separates the good decks and builders from the bad ones can be as little as that extra 1% of consistency.

The fact that half the classes have more than 5% differences is pretty absurd and is a reason why they never win tournaments except to prey on VERY specific meta decks. Rune is one such example since it somehow beats ALL control decks with an absurd 78% winrate or something last I checked.

It's actually really ridiculous and I expect Cygames to seriously think about reworking.

>>358508298

is this yu-gi-oh? what's a zodiac beast? i didn't think that game could get more stupid after all the stupid shit you can do by combining xyz,synchro and pendulum together

>>358508206
>Shadowverse
>TCG
Fucking retard.

>>358508373
?

>>358508410
If you think 5% is acceptable, you don't know much about CCGs in general. I would ask what rank you are since I am basing my observations from Master, but I suspect you're too low ranked to really matter in this discussion. At low ranks, pretty much anything goes. Even Ohata Royal can work up to A pretty easily.

i got to A1 and then just had to take a break from the game for a while because i swear everyone and his mom run either control sword or tempo elf, it was getting as bad as shamanstone

>>358508574
building banner and getting to master takes no skill at all

>>358508574
I said 5% was big earlier but playable anyway

>i suspect you're too low ranked to really matter in this discussion
O-oh. I'll just leave now...

>>358508690
Getting to master doesn't take skill in general since ranks don't reset. As long as you grind enough with a deck that isn't garbage, you'll hit master.

The real ladder starts at Master and it's an actual challenge to even hit top 100. Take stuff like Bat Blood or Ohata Royal and see how far you get in Master.

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>>358499990
>not playing superior "mtg"

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>>358508690
Then do it, don't just talk about it.

>>358508503
Zodiac Beasts can xyz summon using one monster instead of needing multiple.

DING DONG

>>358499990

that's the lowest quality bait I have ever seen in my entire life

>>358506360
Pendulum summoning was a mistake.

>>358501047
Even duelyst is better than hearthstone and duelyst has become hs 2.0 after the changes

>>358506584
Hyperlibrarian is a busted card with level eater in the game.

>>358508898
I used to play Hex a lot. Putting endless spiders into enemy decks was fun.

>>358507123

HS arena is so much worse compared to MTG sealed.

>>358508084

what is it? I play faeria, HEX, and Eternal and never see threads about them. Maybe a /vg thread would be best for other card games.

>>358507227
>removed from the game is a third.
That's only the case for decks that can abuse Omega. But yeah, there are so many grave effects it may as well be a second hand for all decks.

>>358501269
After seeing pavel's babbling book into polymorph it should be obvious how had HS is. Even kripp is fucking frustrated with how bad HS is.

I know eceleb threads be oblong in trash but even famous hs pros like reynad and life coach say this shit is fucking in a bad spot. Basically good players do just as well ass mediocre players as and the best decks are very, very, Very easy to pilot.

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>>358509317
fuck spiders

>>358502314
It's 57%

Look at lifecoach and kolento, some of the best constructed players. They used to have like 65% win ratio in other expansions but it's currently 57% if you look at this rng filled expansion set.

>>358509402
A general card game general would be cool
I just want somewhere to bitch about combrei

>>358509402

eternal, it went open beta like 3 days ago, i was all excited about it and went to make a thread on /v/ only to see it archived almost immediately

They are all shit.
Trading card games are a pyramid scheme of purchasing power. The guy who bought all the good cards shits on the guy who didn't. That's before looking into how much draw luck in a match is involved.

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>>358499990

Official /tg/ ranking

1.) Magic 10/10
2.) Eternal 9/10
3.) Magic Online 8,5/10
4.) YugiOh 6/10
5.) Faeria 6/10
6.) Duelyst 5/10
7.) Spellweaver 5/10
8 .) Hearthstone 3/10
...
99999.) Shadowverse -100/10

@358509979
Why are you ranking Yugioh higher than anything else

>>358499990
I swear to god there's a Duel Masters that is like this card

>>358509979

>Hearthstone 2nd lowest because it's most popular

ah, typical 4chan.

>>358505617
>Typical
That's not even in the game yet. Try harder shitposter.

>>358499990
The whole point of a trading card game is to have face to face human interaction as a nerdlinger. Thus Hearthstone isn't good.

>>358509979
>3.) Magic Online 8,5/10
Opinion discarded.

IM INSTALLING SV RIGHT NOW

WTF IM IN FOR

>>358510421
anime tits

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>>358510421
MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE

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>>358510421

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>>358510421
An extremely generous f2p game with solid mechanics and an insanely divisive art style.

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>>358510421
Fun.

>>358510421
Lots of Healing

>>358501047

Hearthstone is an abysmal game, objectively. Literally every single card game I've encountered is better

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>20$ bundles for starter packs lmao
>50$ booster packs for 50 card ??????????? LMAO
>dull, bland gameplay literally no depth
>p2w business model

>>358510874
Shadowverse stats a week from now

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>>358510421
You're in for a shit ton of free packs. If you don't like what you got, feel free to reroll by reinstalling the game on mobile/emulator.

>>358510874
Card games were a mistake. It's nothing but trash.

>>358504334
>>358504390
>>358504447
Doomcaller too

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>>358510991
http://steamcharts.com/app/453480

How is duelyst nowadays? I stopped before the first expansion but when I was going to get back in I heard the devs make some shitty changes.

>>358510991
Except it's doing gangbusters in Japan, so you won't have trouble finding games any time soon.

Hearthstone feels better to play and you can tell what's going on easily

>>358505301
I just recently started playing MtG and I knew that that faggot was going to drop once he rotates out of standard.

It's not rocket science

>>358499990
Cards like yogg saron.
This is why magic is better.

File: hearthstone.jpg (32KB, 793x465px)

32KB, 793x465px

>>358511109
>http://steamcharts.com/app/453480

Hearthstone has ten thousand times more players.

>>358499990
Why did you have to make this thread ? There is not a single reason for comparing Magic and HS, especially on /v/, save for creating a shitstorm here. I guess you just want to watch the world burn. Also, my battletag is #2151 jadm1993, add me and I'll share my 80G quests if I ever get one.

>>358511251
Your chart is the number of accounts, not the number of people online.

>>358511251
Blizzard literally said there's 20 millions registered players in Hots

LMAO 20 queuing time and player-base less than 2k

So does anyone here like Duelyst?

>>358511015
Duelyst is not a card game. It's its own genre really. It doesn't deserve to die unlike the shadoweebverse and faeria.

>>358511545
It reminds me of Scrolls.

Though Scrolls died too young.

>>358511509
It's kind of hard for Blizzard to count their player base since all their games are linked through the Battle.net launcher. One player could just download the launcher, download all the free games without playing them, and just inflate the numbers of the player base without really being there.

The thing I miss about hearthstone the most when I play other card games is the small deck size and legendary limit. I love eternal and it's pretty generous but there's no way I'm getting a full set of leggos without grinding for weeks.

>>358511545
Well that genre clearly failed or else Duelyst would not be dead right now.

>>358511695
Its dumb move by Blizzard claiming Hots was lol and dota killer. Now, they get caught while their pants down. Not mention to, that Smite doing better than Hots

>>358511862
I wish they'd kept the 200 stones per pack instead of dropping it to 100
I think they also lowered the amount you get for trading in premium uncommons

File: 1479570830519.jpg (71KB, 640x780px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 640x780px

>>358511525
I used to, but it's starting to become stale, and the horrible nerf to the dailies and the win gold will probably make me stop playing

>>358511695
>It's kind of hard for Blizzard to count their player base
That's exactly why they do it.
So they can spew
>muh gorillion HoTS players
and pretend they're not telling lies.

>>358512010
>Its dumb move by Blizzard claiming Hots was lol and dota killer.

They did?

>>358512181
Do you actually believe everything you read on /v/?

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74KB, 1280x720px

>>358511545
As someone that played a fair amount of Duelyst in Beta RIP Magmar Mana Burn, that shit dug its own grave.

>>358512253
No, which is why I questioned his post. Are you native in english?