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Why does everyone hate FF13 so much when it's just as linear

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Why does everyone hate FF13 so much when it's just as linear as FF 10, which many people love.

What exactly does FF10 do better than 13?
>>
>>315319992

you can't autobattle on FFX
>>
>>315319992
it wasn't so terribly gated when it comes to character advancement and party composition
>>
>>315319992

you have to play ff10, ff13 plays itself
>>
>>315319992
People who were kids when they played FF 10 are old enough to post here
In general gaming was much more aimed at children and younger people in general when FF 10 came out
13 does a lot of things better than 10 but nostalgia is strong
>>
>>315319992
Nobody gives a fuck about Lightning. Yet, they keep shoving her down our throats.
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>>315319992
>What exactly does FF10 do better than 13?
Characters, combat, story, minigames, sidequest
>>
Dunno, but I do know that 13-2 is lots better than 13.
>>
FFX is a better FF13 in every aspect and for its time many features were ground breaking so it deserves the praise even though I'm not fond of either of them.

FFX had a great battle system while most of the depth of ff13 battle system comes from paradigm shifting correctly in battle and scanning monsters so your auto battle becomes effective. The auto battle was too strong and even buffed and debuffed correctly.
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>>315319992
I know this is XII, but the XIII part applies
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>>315319992
I could deal with the linearity. What turned me off FF13 was the silly story. What wasn't weighted down with nonsensical, convoluted bullshit was basically FF7, but in space with Midgar being a floating disco ball.

The sequels improved the gameplay but made the story even sillier, with Caius in particular coming off as Toriyama trying way too hard to create Sephiroth 2.0, right down to the Latin chanting in his admittedly cool musical motif.
>>
>>315320461
>game over if you die
it just resets you back, I wouldn't really call it a game oveer
>>
because nostalgia
13 year old /v/ enjoyed "HA HA HA HA HA" more easily at the time
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>>315320287
>lesbians
Get out with that shit. We only tolerate the purest form of love here.
>>
>>315319992

Linearity by itself isn't inherently bad, when concerned with RPGs. What is bad is when the battle system is poor and unengaging, the characters and their development are entirely uninteresting and, in most cases, downright worthy of hate, and the story is some of the lamest attempts at a driving force that you must force yourself to play for what, 20+ hours to get to the "good part", as quoted by many internet idiots defending it.

Yeah, no. XIII is garbage in everything but music and visuals.
>>
>>315320230
>13 does a lot of things better than 10 but

Lets hear it.
>>
>>315320747
>hetshit
>hetshit with worst boy
Kill yourself homo
>>
FFX has a billion sidequests, including some story important ones like getting the optional aeons, and a few mini-games to do. FFXIII has a whopping one section where you can do a bastardized and unfulfilling version of FFXII's mark hunting. There's a huge difference.
>>
Everything. There's not a single thing 10 doesn't do better than 13.
>>
>>315320750
And even then the music is inferior to what came before.
>>
How is the battle system in lightning returns? I heard it got better?
>>
>>315320925
Graphics.
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>>315319992
FFX had your progress down a linear set of areas, but in each area there was stuff to explore and entertaining mini-games. There were certainly "hallway" moments but they were broken up enough to not leave the impression of linearity.
>>
>>315320903
To be fair some side quest in X were pretty shitty
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>>315319992
I dont. I hate FFX which is the RE4 of FF. It killed the series. And its also not a really good game of its genre.
>>
>>315319992

Why does everyone just accept the OP at face value. FFX -isn't- as linear as FFXIII. And it had towns. You can't even backtrack in FFXIII. It's 100% linear corridor until chapter fucking -11- of 13, and chapter 12 and 13 are just as linear, while allowing backtracking. At no point in an apples to apples comparison is FFXIII not more linear, much less AS linear as FFX.
>>
>>315319992
Probably because 13 has like a 10 hour tutorial if not longer. It is good later on especially when you get to the more open ended shit but the early stuff is really tedious. It must have took like 3 hours just to unlock the leveling systems 5 or so to unlock the weapon upgrade system.
>>
>>315319992
There's actually shit to do in FFX.
In 13 you're just running down corridors fighting monsters, then you get to a bigger monster fight, then you go to another corridor. There's only one area that deviates from this formula, but all there is to do there is finding more monsters to fight.
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>>315320903
>>315321078
>>315321267
This. It's obvious when people who haven't played X run their mouths on this subject.
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>>315321103
No doubt, a lot of them were crappy, but some of them were enjoyable and you can't pretend they don't exist so that you can pretend it's as linear as FFXIII which has nothing of the sort.
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>>315319992
Why is Lightning dressed as Yuna?
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>>315319992

>mfw I like FFXIII and Lightning Returns

FFXIII does have a really slow start, but once it picks up, it's great. I assume most people dropped it before getting into the meat of the game.
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>>315320724
>describing the one scene literally nobody enjoyed because you weren't suppose to.
>lol /v/ enjoyed it because nostalgia googles
nigga you stupid.
>>
>>315321785
FF XII-III Lightning Returns had customization costumes. There were a bunch of classic costumes as Preorder bonus and they re-did lightning's model to ad boob jiggle.
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>>315320852
Don't fight it.
Deep down, you know it's right.
>>
Combat, leveling system (int. version), extra bosses. X It was linear as fuck and chracters were ass except for Auron but I fucking loved the extra stuff in it and the combat system.
>>
>>315321267
The towns were just a part of the linear corridor of X. Didn't make the game any less linear it just added a bit more variety to the corridor.
>>
>>315320803
Well let's get the obvious out of the way
Graphics are a major step forward and I'm not talking about a purely technical point of view but also an artistic style which while personal I really enjoyed more in 13
Voice acting is infinitely superior in 13 as well compared to 10
And finally the production values are absolutely phenomenal and I don't think we'll ever see another AAA rpg ever again that can be compared to this, from the lack of bugs to the polish in every single area and attention to detail everywhere. 10 wasn't bad but 13 is superior
Now there's the combat
13 has people crying about autobattle but that's like complaining that a game has an easy mode, if you don't want it, don't use it
I could complain about the insanely op summons in 10 if it comes to that and while autobattle puts the game in a more managerial aspect by letting you control the formation and jobs while the ai controls individual actions, summons in 10 were so op they make the entire game trivial up to yojimbo because of his 1-hit kill move that works on everything
Now the battle system itself comes down to personal preference and I prefer 13 because it's a lot more engaging since the fast pace keeps you on your toes, and the anti-grind measure assures that the battles are challenging while still letting you fight every enemy without fear of overleveling and making the game a cakewalk
the lore is much more in depth in 13 and while the storytelling is unconventional the world in which it's set is absolutely beautiful and rich with content
the characters are explained much more in depth than the characters from 10 and the lack of a central protagonist at least in 13 really helps the game explore each one of them. You might not like them but they are very detailed , at least more than the characters from 10 with everyone going through character arcs and personal development
i liked the way magic was handled in 13 compared to 10 as well because in 13 it has clearer rules and
>>
>>315319992
both are shit
>>
>>315319992
The first 20 hours of FFX weren't an extended tutorial with gated level caps for each new mechanic.

FFX had towns and more than zero character customization.
>>
>>315322073
Except there are things to do in those towns. Oh and you can travel between those towns at will. Oh and there are things to do in those towns that open up later. Oh and the game doesn't shove you right in there and make you do them. No, you're just wrong, just because FFX doesn't have a world map doesn't mean it's a corridor-fest. Try playing the game.
>>
"Streamlined" would be my major complaint. The linearity of FFX didn't bother me, because after two/three "hallway" sections tops, you would arrive at some off-to-the-side location, whether it be another town, one of Rin's Travel Agencies, or another Cloyster of Trials.
Then you look at the linearity of XIII, where there are a lot of hallway segments... with one save point that functions as every shop, accessory and equipment upgrading station in one. Gran Pulse feels a lot more like X's Calm Lands, but blown up hard, which was nice, but not enough to cover the 11 Chapters that came before it, and that you can never revisit for any reason. In X, you could even return to the sunken temple from the very beginning of the game, and there was reason to. In XIII, once you were through a hallway, there was no need for that hallway to exist.
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>>315322073
But you could revisit all the areas at the end of the game and thins like optional dungeons, side quests and towns give you incentive too where as in 13 you just get to an open fairly empty over world where there is a hand full of side quests many of which are just "kill this monster".
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>>315321894
Yuna was teaching Tidus that sometimes you have to smile through the hard things with Yuna's theme playing in the background
why weren't you supposed to enjoy it
>>
>enter thread
>expect nostalgiafag hate bullshit
>actually solid arguments and well-formulated opinions in almost every post

Is this still /v/?
>>
I hate 10 and 13. I think 13 got worse after it opened up since it killed the pacing and highlighted how empty of a world 13 is. If you ask me 10 at least tried to have fun so that's why I rate it higher then 13.
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>>315319992
How about you play the games and find out on your own?

How about you stop making shit tier threads like that?
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>>315321495
How do the various shitty mini games make the game less linear?

13 had the extensive hunt system which had a number of areas devoted too it and those areas were not linear corridors as well. The closest 10 got to that was the Omega ruins which was the only real extensive extra optional area, other than that its main post game content was the monster arena which was a menu select that dropped you into battles.
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I could give some input now as I just beat ff13 for the first time a week ago, and am replaying ff X right now.
Simply putting it, ffx is linear but still gives you some choices along the way, where ff13 is hallways for 20 hours, then you can fuck around with missions (and you have to beat the game to unlock tier 10 to do many of them). Not having an airship, and only having a few areas to go in 13 was shit as well, at least you could go anywhere in spira eventually. I felt like missions were very lackluster. FFx had you monster hunting, and in the recent release fighting dark aeons, which are tough as shit and give much more to strive for.
Upgrading was retarded in 13 as well, it's just a money grind, which is never fun. FFX ultimates were tough to get, and rage inducing, but they felt like an accomplishment.

Onto the story, holy shit was I bored with 13, I sat through every cutscene and many were painful, that and the ending was boring. FFx had it's own stupid moments (the laugh) but it still draws me in, and while yu-yevon is a shit final battle, I like the ending, and most importantly LIKE THE CHARACTERS. I simply didn't care about anyone in 13, and their banter was nauseating.

Battle wise I found 13 challenging around the middle to last part of the game, you really do have to change up the paradigm system. FFx main story is fairly easy, but kinda difficult if you don't overgrind, and I still enjoy switching chars to take down certain enemies, thought it was a good way to get you to use everybody (except kimahri, worthless).


All in all, 13 was just boring, and characters blew, didn't care for them. I might have some nostalgia, but 10 is just fun for me, and actually has a story, stupid or not.
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>>315322520
FF threads can be alright sometimes.
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>>315319992
Its overly linear

No npcs

No towns

Side quests are relegated to monster hunts

Dull environments outside a few backdrops

Meh as fuck soundtrack

Characters are paper thin

Lightning is a confusing protagonist

Combat system is unfair in regards to aoe and leader death

Story is a clusterfuck the majority of which is told through datalogs

All immersion is broken when you ask yourself who put these item spheres here with up to date items and why the people hunting the L'cie didn't just get their location from where they last used their credits

My biggest problems with the game right here.
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>>315322345
I don't remember a lot of things to do in the towns if anything at all. I remember a few shitty mini games that weren't really in the towns and they served mainly to get the ultimate weapons for some characters.
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>>315322938
Its about making you feel immersed in the world, and when you play ff13 you realise how important a little world building that isn't told through walls of text is
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>>315323138
I hated that every time I was in a city in 13 I couldn't explore it.
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>>315323274
You could overhear people hating you on occasion.

And don't forget that magical time spent finding the baby chocobo in that sweet amusement park that had NOTHING fun to do.
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>>315323274
I think the first time I seen a button prompt in the game environment it was a picture of Hopes mum in his house. That's like half way through
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>>315323138
I still don't see what all these 'things' were and how that made the game any less linear. The main shit in X was monster hunting and blitzball, if anyone gave a shit about that, but they were just menus that dropped you into battle. Other than the actual tedious monster collecting needing to find the monsters and use shitty weapons to capture.
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>>315323572
>>315323516
>>315323274
>>315323138
Tbph FF13 doesn't get enough hate when you realise the things they cut. I'm kinda glad it nearly killed the franchise.
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>>315319992

>muh iconic victory fanfare
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>>315319992
FF10 provides you with a beautiful world with rich characters and side story and lovey music, whilest FF13 fails to deliver on all of these aspects.
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FF13 Battles
Man, thundaga sure kills them instantly
>Chars spam low level spells

HOLY SHIT WHAT ARE YOU DOING
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>>315323753
HA HA HA HA
>>
>>315323704
But japs seemed to love it, or at least praise it over 12.

Heres hoping 15 will change things, but I doubt it from the trailers.
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>>315323594
Little things like halting the progression to the next "level" so you can explore Luca, Besaid, Kilika, Quadasalam, inns, etc. It's something small that's sorely missed in 13 because you're constantly on a path to the next closed environment.

Did you know you can backtrack to Besaid from as far as Macalania Woods? It just makes the journey feel real, I'm not even talking about the mini games here.
>>
>>315319992
FFX had an actual battle system that required you to do more than mash X

FFX's protagonist wasn't a narrowminded bitch

FFX had likable characters
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>>315323939
I dunno I haven't followed the series since 3/4s in to 13, I'm just not interested in anything they offer after the kick in the teeth of 13. Nothing 15 could do would recover that feeling lost.
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>>315319992

Well lets see. The setting is superior. The story is superior. The cast is superior. The music is superior. The battle system is superior. The level up system is superior. The weapon upgrading system is superior. The side quests are superior. The minigames are superior. The summons are superior. The villain is superior. The replay value is superior. And the game takes much longer to complete.

Final Fantasy 13 does have better graphics though. Yeah, those graphics!
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>>315320061

you don't need to auto battle.
>>
>>315319992
FFX is linear, but it's well paced.
In XIII you're either in a battle corridor or watching a cutscene, there's nothing else
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>>315324264
Sorry but mashing X is autobattle. Fuck off.
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>>315323781
Thundaga was for AoE. Unlike most FF you still used the low level spells as you stilled spammed thunder to get the stagger gauge up for single target tough opponents. Although I think Thundaga did bonus damaged once they were staggered.

The AI always cast Thundara for me at least before thundaga, don't remember at that point, and it sucked. It was pretty spotty aoe as it was a lot smaller than thundaga and crap for building stagger.
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>>315324264
There's no benefits to not auto battling because the computer will always do the best thing for the situation faster than you.
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>>315324449

Also the areas are glorified levels. That pissed me off as they dont even join each other particularly well in transition.
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>>315324465
Stop playing the game on easy mode then. All FF's have mash X on trash. Bosses in XIII need you to think about your skills and paradigms.

>>315319992
Story. The story in XIII doesn't really motivate players to go through all the other stuff XIII offers.
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>>315322737
I guess.

For me it's

LR > 13-2 > 10 > 13

13-2 wasn't as linear. It didn't feel as linear as 13. The crystarium was a little more interesting and the Pokemon-like monster training was alright.

I'm split with 10 which is why it's above 13 but below 13-2. I liked it all the way up until Seymour Flux. Not because that boss was broken as fuck, but because i realized something. The way up the mountain, those wolves with Death-effect on their attacks run into you. They oneshot you and it can be a struggle to keep everyone alive and well. I hit the "cap" of Lv4 Keyspheres around this time, too, so i couldn't strengthen my characters any more until i got a few Lv4 Keyspheres, which as far as i am aware is not available until later. That's okay too.

But what's not okay is that there is no way to get death resistance or zombie resistance at that point. No accessoire i got could have possibly prepared me for Seymour motherfucking Flux and everything that came after. If there is, please tell me.

The way they handled accessoires and the postgame. In all honesty, Grinding up all those spheres just sucks. EXP are not a problem because of the tonberry trick. But getting spheres is grindy and boring, and moving around the grid isn't very interesting in and off itself. I hate the sphere grid.

In fact, 10 is the only game i never 100% because lategame is just grinding for those fucking spheres. I 100%ed all three 13 line games. I got most of the celestial weapons and if i do decide to pick 10 back up i have a little bit of ground to work on. But it's just too frustrating. Also when i didn't know about the Dark Aeons, i just ran into them while trying to get some treasures i missed in different areas of the game. No warning, locked in a battle, and if i run into them i just lose all my progress, which sometimes was HOURS. It made me paranoid with saving in this game.

13 line has tons of flaws too, though. But they didn't make me quit like in 10.

>inb4 fuck you
>>
>>315324551

are you even aware of what you are saying?
i won't bother with my mediocre english to explain you how stupid your post is.


>>315324465
what?
>>
>>315324048
None of this is an argument for the game being less linear. This argument that there was lots of things to do, which might have worked if it was true, has been dropped and the idea you can go backwards on the linear path doesn't make it not linear.
>>
LETS TALK ABOUT FF12 INSTEAD
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>>315324738
My problems with the entire trilogy are that theres a solid game there if you take the best parts of each.

13-2 was a step forward and 2 steps back. LR was a step in front of a train, what an utter fuck up.
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>>315324551
Except it didn't, at least not for all classes anyway.
>>
>>315324551
Unless you're hasted, you have more than enough time to pick out your skills.

And the AI is trash, doesn't take into account your weapons and stats. If the boss is weak to Fire, you will use a mix of Fire spells and melee even though you made your attack stat much higher than your Magic.
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>>315324781
Holy hell you're not even trying are you?

Tell me why auto battling isnt preferable to inputting your commands one by one. The computer literally looks at your team, your paradigms, and puts forward the best skills for that situation. Its how the entire game is designed. No one is this fucking stupid.

I'll wait.
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>>315324931
40/40 PERFECT GAME
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>>315324846
Okay, reread my post and I'll add that the illusion of freedom is a powerful thing. Talking to npcs, shopping, exploring, finding treasure, crafting, etc. These are all things you can do outwith the main minigames. Theres level baded linearity as in 13, which doesnt even bother with the illusion, and the kind in X where you're free to explore areas until you're ready to move on with the main story. Its linear, yes, but nowhere near as linear as 13, which outright stops your levelling progress so you cant storm through checkpoints
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>>315325193
I agree for the most part but sometimes you have to input to do certain things the comp won't do, like highwind/death, and sometimes it spams the wrong buffs/debuffs you want.
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>>315324931
I can definately see where you come from.

LR was truly a mess. It was just as many fuck ups as good things. They could've made it so much better without the fucking time mechanic, for example. It makes sense with the story but that is no excuse for a poor game mechanic. The battle system definately trumped 13 and 13-2 but it had its own flaws, too. Then there were some performance issues (played on PS3) but those weren't too bad for the most part. The world was okay and being able to traverse it almost freely was great, but it felt a bit empty at times.Then again, that's what most games with an open world suffer. And also, it was almost too open. It tackled you with how open it was so much that you could get stuck in all the fetchquests that are scattered fucking everywhere. There's only two or three actually interesting sidequests.

I still very much enjoyed it. Maybe i have fanboy goggles on, but eh. I had fun, so who cares.
>>
>>315325651
The ones you want are not what fit the situation then anon. If you want to do strategies that arent efficient and make the game harder for you, then thats your thing man.
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>>315324931
if you take the story out of 13-2 and just have it as whacky kids going on crazy time travel adventures it would be a 10/10 game. the playable characters are fine.
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>>315325832
Have you played the game? The AI is shit. Doesn't over heal, stops casting debuffs once they are all up even when they are great at keeping chain up, uses magic attacks when your attack is much greater than your magic stats and never uses skills like Army of One when opponents are staggered meaning you never amass 999% Chain until the boss is almost out of stagger.
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>>315325832
It is when it wins the battle faster, it doesn't know what to do all the time.
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>>315324186
>FFX had an actual battle system that required you to do more than mash X

80% of fights in that game is mashing x faggot
>>
>>315325595
The illusion of the game being less linear isn't really an argument for the game If they charge import duties we charge the same rate. Because we buy more from them than they from us we get more out of it & stop paying billions for rubbish being less linear.
>>
>>315326370
>uses magic attacks when your attack is much greater than your magic stats

You do realize they always pick the option that does the most damage? Maybe the use magic instead of physical attacks because the enemy has a fucking physical resistance but is neutral/weak against magic.

>never uses skills like Army of One when opponents are staggered
The point of the ultimate moves is that ONLY THE PLAYER CAN USE THEM. If they could just spam their unique moves building up a chain would be ridiculously easy. You aren't supposed to always hack a chain up to 999%. Even with 600% you will deal tremendous amounts of damage to most things.
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>>315322103
where is the rest of the pasta?
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>>315326370
Played 3/4s of the game and never had drouble with autobattling.
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>>315326974
Not a pasta I just wrote what came to mind
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>>315326270
if you take the story out of the game, there's no reason for the game to exist. the game is shit, it just reused a lot of xiii's areas and put shitty filters over them when you traveled to different times.
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>>315326758
>You do realize they always pick the option that does the most damage?

You can see from the very start the AI mixes up physical and magic attacks in one full AP bar even when you look at the stats and they are more weak to one than the other and you can see from the damage on the hits one is doing more than the other. This is both true for commando and ravager, as the ravager on ai/auto attack would do spells and strikes at the same time.

It seems like it focuses a lot on making things look cool instead of what is best, other than elemental weaknesses, it will always counter them.
>>
>>315326758
Play the game again. Even when monsters or bosses have 0 weakness to melee or magic, it will always do a mixture of both. Heck, there was a time when my attack was more than double my magic so even if the monster had half melee damage, I still did more damage per Thunderstrike compared to Thunder as Ravager trying to stagger.

You said the AI will pick the best things but then you say it doesn't when it comes to stuff like Army of One? 999% chain when the boss still has 50% of the stagger time left is a lot better than slowly working up to 600% chain just as the boss leaves Stagger.

>>315327031
Auto battle is fine, but it's not perfect like the anon I'm replying to is trying to push.
>>
>>315327031
You wouldn't since 3/4s of the game is sady the tutorial
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>>315322103
>because of his 1-hit kill move that works on everything
He rarely ever uses that because of some weird relationship mechanics the game never explains and it costs a shitton of money to potentially get him to do it. Besides, he's entirely optional to get in the first place. You might as well complain about the Zodiac Spear being OP.
>>
>>315327249
That is because when you face an enemy for the first time, the AI doesn't know the weaknesses yet. By mixing up attack types, it tries to find out what the enemy is weak to. After you fully analysed an enemy using Librascopes and the like, they should stop doing that. If they don't, well then fuck me sideways it IS shit AI, but if they don't, they're not as bad as people think.
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>>315320676
You're talking about any game over in anything without permadeath then.
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>>315327602
Even when you know the weaknesses, it will still mix. And even when you can't see weaknesses, you as a player can see damages so you can tell without waiting or using a Libra that you need to use certain skills.
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>>315327602
*if they do

fucked up
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>>315327614
Any game that resets your progress an unhealthy amount for no reason other than to pad out the game.

I think the way FF13 did it was the right way to do it. Especially since there were unavoidable death spells
>>
>>315327602
As a commando against someone with all stats and weaknesses shown, 95% of the time the combo will be Ruin > Attack x 4 against someone equal damage with Magic and Melee. This is great when opponents are almost out of chain while trying to stagger, but even in situations where you have 20 seconds before Chain runs out, AI will still pick this option.
>>
>>315320452
Not in terms of gameplay, but characters and side content.
>>
>>315327513
It's still there
A game gives you the ability to 1 hit kill even superbosses
Not that you need yojimbo since you can just farm overdrives and annihilate everything
And it's not even about finding a bullshit hard summon like kotr in 7 which was a pain, summons in 10 are story related
So if I ignore the gamebreaking summons, like I did when I played ff 10, I can easily ignore auto battle, like I did when I played 13
>>
>>315319992
FFX's linearity has good reason, a pilgrimage to each of the temples in Spira. XIII just involves the party wandering around for a few chapters until they bump into each other again.
>>
>>315327513
He's optional, but he's far from hard to get.

Its also not hard to manipulate him into killing shit.
Farming black Yojimbos by spamming Zanmatou was a common strategy.
>>
>>315321892

Nice to know I'm not alone. Sure it had its problems but I enjoyed it.
>>
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>>315327318
Touché. But working up a chain of 600% is only slow when you don't have 3 ravagers yet. After you unlock ravager for everyone which is only after you beat the final boss, it goes way faster. But like i said that is AFTER you beat the game. Before that, 999% is pretty much not achievable anyways, and 600 hardly is (only on some bosses)

I guess Square did want them to look cool rather than deal the most potential damage. Most of the time, the main source of damage are commandos anyways, they just whack things and don't care. Them mixing up the attack types isn't really that bad. It doesn't make the game unplayable.

But it still hinders you in a way because they're not doing the most optimal thing.

>inb4 you did a 180
>>
>>315327602
No, when you know all the stats for an enemy they do it, they always do it. What they change is elements, once they/you learn the str/wk they adjust.

I thought this argument was that the AI would do things perfect meaning you ended up not playing the game? Surely it is right the AI is 'bad' so that to get greater efficiency and have less problems in harder fights you don't just rely on the ai/auto battle.

This is like saying aim assist on console is shit because it isn't just an aim bot that automatically gives you head shots.
>>
>>315327979
Commandos should be switched in only to stabilize the chain not f
>>
>>315320121
no 12 does that, you literally can set it to play itself. nice meme though bandwagoner. I'm sure maybe someday you'll fit in. ;^)
>>
>>315324512
You should have been able to tell your AI to prioritize the high damage/aoe spells.

Not like you had to manage MP

But no, we didn't get that option until FFXIII-2, which by then was to late because a lot of the mechanics were gutted out of the game anyways
>>
>>315328527
It originally was about that, sorry for digressing so much. And of course, you're right. The aim assist example is spot on.

In the end, the AI is just kind of meh.
>>
>>315328467
I don't remember how well the -ara or -aga spells were with damage. But I would always do main character Ravager for special like Army of One and others with Commandos until 999% since the Commando damage was crazy high.

>>315328587
Commando damage is a lot stronger than Ravager, but I think there is something more going on with -ara and -aga spells when staggered. Never bothered to find out though.
>>
Lightning is a old hag! OLD, OLD!
>>
The only objectively bad FF is 2 because it's barely playable and all around garbage.

If you think otherwise you're underage and a meme vomiting autist.
>>
>>315324738
>The crystarium was a little more interesting
How?

No really how, there was no point to leveling anything but Com Rav and Med for the main characters and you didn't even get the pseudo branching paths.

Plus a lot of the abilities from 13 were removed, like quake
>>
>>315327979
They all mixup though, Ravager AI does it which is shit because mixing strikes and spells extends animation times meaning it takes longer to execute all the actions. It is far better to just machine gun whatever they are weakest against, or does most damage with your weapon stats.
>>
>>315328879
Magic spells keeps increasing the stagger percentage
I mainly used Lightning so I just usedarmy in one as soon as stagger hit and got 999.99% everytime
Or if I used someone else like Fang or Snow I'd use their 5 atb slot move at the end of the stagger and deal fabulous amounts of damage
>>
FFX opens up a lot after the first 20hours.
Weapon customisation is good.
Sphere grid is good.
XIII is extremely boring the whole way through.
>>
>>315328879
-ara and -aga spells did do more damage than the base spell but they were only useful against groups because not only is it not that much more damage, but because they take up way more space on the ATB bar. To be as effective as the base spells, they would have to be 2/3 times the damage of them, which, iirc, they aren't. So ara and aga were only really useful for weak groups like those retarded robots in the underground of Cocoon.

Ravagers should always just use 6 of the base spells when against single enemies. That way they put out the most damage and build up the most stagger gauge. Commandos are kings of damage, especially Fang, whom i like to use against adamant(or)toises post-game because hitting things with Highwind after they hit 999% deals damage into the fucking millions and it's fun seeing lategame enemies explode.
>>
>>315329353
I never got into weapon customization in X, the basic weapons you got were fine for me. How did it work in X?
>>
>>315329520
You used items to give your weapons abilities.
>>
FF13 1, 2, and 3 have awful stories with no threat of the final boss in them. You knew from the first hour you'd have to fight Sin at the end of X.

But 13? You have NO idea what goes on until about 3-5 hours, then never get the full picture till around 20 hours and at that point you see no point in continuing other than "dont wanna be ceith"
>>
FFX was released in 2001.

FFXIII was released in 2009/10.

That's why.
>>
>>315329520
Weapons had a number of slots that you could put special powers into by crafting items. It was a bit grindy for the top-tier stuff, but gave you a lot of freedom to make fun combinations.
>>
>>315329018
It was more interesting in that you could gain bonus stats on the large nodes and were able to choose upgrades each time you finished a grid as opposed to having to wait until a certain point in the story for them.

Then again that's pretty much just the branching paths in disguise and it's not like you grind for those bonus abilities in particular.

Still didn't feel as linear as 13's crystarium simply becausei got most of the roles way earlier into the game.

On a completely unrelated note, Augusta Tower sucks balls.
>>
>>315329520
Weapons dont have str or int stats, only passive abilities (which could actually be something like damage +15%).
That means that you could keep many different weapon types for any given situation, and the customization shit is even cooler because you got to add whatever you wanted to your weapons.

It also helps if you want to do some retarded expert grid builds like Breaker Yuna or White Mage Auron.
>>
>>315327602
It keeps doing it even after you've fought the enemy dozens of times.
>>
>>315328764
I am pretty sure the AI did cast for AoE but it was terrible at judging whether the AoE would actually hit all the enemies on the screen or not. It just knew there were lots of enemies in the battle therefore AoE. The AI couldn't determine whether the enemies were all clumped up so they could cast AoE on something and not hit the other enemies because they were spread out. It wasn't that simple to hit multiple things with shit like Blitz because the AoE was so small and you need to target something in the middle of the pack as well.
>>
>>315329684
Not entirely true.

13 was a surprise. You couldn't really see that coming.
13-2 was pretty obvious you'd had to fight Caius. Like "i am the evil guy, now come stop my plans!" obvious.

LR actually had a nice build up. From the beginning you hear of a church built around the God of Light. then he becomes a main part of the story. It all only happens because you are chosen be the God of Light and Lightning considers defying him. It gets pretty obvious who the actual final boss is, don't you think? That's what they call build-up. 10 did it just as well, if not a little bit better than 13, because as time went on you found out who and what Sin actually was. LR had the whole "god killed Hope and that Hope in the Arc was actually Bhunivelze" thing going on though.
>>
>>315328686
>you literally can set it to play itself

Yeah, i'm sure you found a magical combination of gambits and equipment that worked perfectly against every enemy in every environment in the game, faggot
>>
>>315330684
There's set ups to take on the game's optional super boss Yiazmat and you can let the game do the work while you make a sandwich.
>>
ff13 had small detours and optional shit scattered all along the way along with towns and npc's.
It also had a more complex battle system and didnt game over you for having 1/3 people die
It also has more likable characters and a way fucking better setting.

the fabula nova crystallis games all have fucking boring ass settings
>>
>>315322103
>>315322103

>summons in 10 were so op they make the entire game trivial up to yojimbo because of his 1-hit kill move that works on everything

You must have never BEAT the actual game you fuck. You actually get severely punished for leveling your aeons because you fight them all and they poop on you.
>>
>>315329954
It's not more interesting, it's just more streamlined

That plus having abilities removed and the third character slot not being a fully fleshed party member = casualized.
>>
>>315329464
I think aga spells did more damage to staggered, it said in game ara did as well but I never found it did. I am sure that casting aga on staggered enemies was worth it in terms of damage on single target once staggered vs 3 base spells but the base spells still increased the stagger % faster. So I think it depended on whether something would die quickly or not once staggered anyway and your paradigm decks or how far you were in the game as the ultimate abilities changed things a bit.
>>
>>315330859
Towns would make little sense in XIII however. You're the most wanted people in 1 world and the other is dead.
>>
As someone who has only played two or three hours of Final Fantasy 12, should i pick it back up and give it another shot?

I don't even have many party members yet. I'm guessing the game starts slow? I do like the setting and hunts are fun.
>>
>>315331015
I'm aware of that but the same thing happens in 10 and the only thing that happens is you cant play blitzball for awhile.

It doesnt help that the story that you use as an arguing point for no towns is fucking shit
>>
FF10 saved the PS2
FF13 was multiplat so SquareEnix suddenly became traitorous odoriferous swine
>>
>>315331015
You're a terrorist in mutliple FF games.
They couldve at the very least add some shitty civilization into Pulse too.

Like those furry fucks in FF8 or some shit.
>>
>>315331015
You're wanted for dead in
2,4,6,7,8,9,10,12, also and they all manage to have towns
>>
>>315330795
Yiazmat wasn't the super boss

Omega mk XII and the black Esper i forget the name, as well as the Hell Wyrm were all more challenging.
>>
>never played any ff but 13 looked good and bought on steam
>literally the first guy you see is a nigger
Refunded with 1 minute of playtime
When will the jews learn?
>>
>>315331327
>FF10 saved the PS2
Are you retarded? It came the year the PS2 was launched.
>>
>>315331580

the boss that has nearly a billion hp and takes 4 hours to beat isn't the superboss.

you heard it here first
>>
>>315323939
Japs also have terrible taste in vidya in general let alone JRPGs. Theyre also all casual as fuck.
>>
>>315331832
It's the final HUNT but it's not the super boss

Hell, you have to do Yiazmat to even fight Omega mk XII

At least know what the fuck you're talking about
>>
X has the sphere grid and has random encounters, so XIII is better by default.
>>
>>315332028
>the superboss
>implying there isnt more than 1

Dont be stupid anon
>>
>>315331687
Not that anon, but it had nothing games wise on release, and that was one of the first "big games" that pushed it.
Probably would have been a success without, but it was a big push. I remember being excited, the ads were pretty good.
>>
>>315332169
13 has an even more linear grid and random encounters arent a negative I dont know why you little fucks keep trying to say those and turn based gameplay is outdated, yall need to fuck off to another genre to shit up
>>
>>315332232
Now youre moving the goal posts. We're done here.
>>
>>315332232
Difference being "superboss" implies the highest challenge a game offers

Yiazamat is not the highest challenge in FFXII

One of the prerequisite fights for Yiazamat is much harder than him and half his health. (Hell Wyrm)
>>
>>315332473
im not even that anon sperg
>>
>>315332352
>random encounters aren't a negative
They discourage exploration and make travel annoying, and also unnecessarily take control away from the player. In XIII, players know when a battle is coming and what they will be up against and can adequately prepare for it, and the player controls when a battle starts.
And I didn't say turn based gameplay was outdated. I like turn based gameplay.
>>
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It's nice to see a Final Fantasy thread that isn't about XIV. Those threads are shit post central.
>>
>>315332575
And that anon isn't me.
>>
>>315332575
Than why are you replying cocksucker? Mommy not giving you attention?
>>
>>315332621
>They discourage exploration and make travel annoying

how so? I like the combat
>>
>>315332621
Final Fantasy 12 removed random battles AND had seamless transition from exploration to fighting

Why the fuck are you praising 13 which dumbed this down?
>>
>>315332541
A superboss is just something more challenging that the final boss in a FF. Take Ruby and Emerald weapon as examples.
>>
>>315331084

12's pace never picks up.
>>
>>315332845
I'm saying why XIII is better than X anon. You're right. XII is even better than XIII in that regard. I even think XII is the best FF has ever gotten, but that's another story
>>315331084
Its a very slow beginning in the game, yeah. It'll be a slug to play until after you've finished sneaking into the palace and then broke out.
>>
>>315333174
Still, XIII isn't better than X, even though i hate X's random encounters and gameplay

XIII's gameplay is even worse.
>>
>>315332621
>They discourage exploration
At least X HAD exploration.
>>
>>315319992
I loved the 13 games. Well, okay. I liked XIII and loved the sequels. But still. They don't compare to X though.
>>
>>315330896
>You fight your aeons
Yeah, but you can't lose. Come on man Aeons were broken as nuts.
>>
>>315322103
>Muh graphics
>Implying FF13 lore was good

One of the problems with FF13 is that they try to make the story, characters and lore seem deeper than they really are.
>>
>>315332621
>They discourage exploration and make travel annoying, and also unnecessarily take control away from the player.
Without danger, there's no reason to explore. Also, random battles take you out of the action for maybe 5 seconds tops while the battle screen loads, then it's right back to being in control.

>In XIII, players know when a battle is coming and what they will be up against and can adequately prepare for it, and the player controls when a battle starts.
So you're saying you're a casual bitch that wants to be coddled.
>>
>>>315319992

FFX combat was leagues better than FFXII shitty paradigm mechanic
Jesus that mechanic made all the battles drag long
>>
>>315319992

>FFX
>The party gets progressively bigger
>You follow a set objective
>The antagonist is obvious from the get go
>The Tidus sub-plot is interesting
>The world , even not being Ivalice, is more interesting than Cocoon

>FFXIII
>You have no fucking idea about where you are going, other than you must go
>The party gets a variable size, party members get in, then they leave repeatedly until the final part of the game
>Most of the cast was annoying
>Lightning got 0 charisma
>>
>>315330896

>not exploiting YOPjimbo for that free dark bahamut kill
>not just cleaving through the game using just Yojimbo and beating his fragile ass in the final fight
>>
>>315319992
if you have to ask that then you're the reason why these games have gone to shit no joke engage in some introspection for once
>>
>>315322103
>insanely op summons in 10
Were they? Not for the main story at least.
>Summon Aeon on Seymour Flux/Omnis
>"Death awaits you"
>1 Hit KOs summon

>Spectral Keeper
>Berserk
>Inescapable landmine of Death

Unless you had overdrive prepared for them, they weren't that good against the bosses. Yojimbo is sort of an exception, but he costed a shit ton of money for that 1-hit KO if I recalled correctly, and it really wasn't worth using aside from monster arena and dark aeons.
>>
>>315334701
I did like it when Lightning punched Snow. That was pretty great. But other than that, that game fucking sucked. Desu Senpai.
>>
>>315331832
It's really not. Long and tedious doesn't mean difficult.
>>
>>315321892
there's hardly any meat. just that pulse area.
>>
FFX has a far better cast of characters, has a straightforward plot that is well written and makes sense, and makes you a very direct part of the world rather than disconnecting you from it like XIII does.

It's as simple as that.
>>
>>315319992
They're both awful, FFX is simply the lesser of two evils in addition to being many of /v/'s first Final Fantasy thus they have nostalgic order for it.
>>
>>315324931
I liked them because it feels like they took an idea (paradigm/stagger system) and completely deconstructed it over the course of the games. They never just leaned on what the last game did
>>
>>315319992
Because 10 opens up far more close to the end, it has a better story comparitively, it has a more fun and customizable battle system, and the main character, while autistic, at least emotes more than a couple of times in the game and has a more interesting arc comparitively
>>
FFX is linear but takes you on a much better path through the world. You go through several cities and see how people live their lives, see people's differing beliefs challenged against each other, and are made part of the world.

In FFXIII you're OH NO WE HAVE A DISEASE SO WE CAN'T GO ANYWHERE NEAR ANYTHING AND WILL JUST WANDER DOWN DESERTED VALLEYS FOREVER.
>>
>>315338781
Imagine if they built the paradigm/stagger mechanics on an advanced version of XII's engine

In fact, I'm pretty sure that's what XV was originally going to be when it was still Versus XIII
>>
FF 13 was fun, I liked it enough to get 100% and haven't bothered doing that with any other FF. Its battle system is surprisingly great but it doesn't let you really play with it til postgame.
>>
>>315322103
I agree with all of these points except art style. X and XIII are about equal if we're trying to be objective. X just has more nostalgia attached to it and people only remember the good music and the fact that it had a good/sad ending, there was plenty that was bad about X as well.
I do prefer X though because it was comfier and in a JRPG where the gameplay will always be shit, X had the better story and the lore was about equal (both good).
XIII-2 was great as well.
>>
>>315339802
> and in a JRPG where the gameplay will always be shit
Thats how you make people dismiss your argument completely.
>>
>>315322353
This is a valid complaint. I feel like they fixed a lot of this in XIII-2 though. The only real problem that was felt for me was the lack of towns, which really made that hallway-ness feel much more restrictive. Certainly gave you less of a reason to play because there was virtually no sense of exploration, and in a beautiful and detailed world like XIII's, that's all I wanted to do.
Also the characters were mostly bad but hey, Japan loves their cliches and us baka gaijin aren't really the target audience.
>>
I liked XIII and loved the sequels. All three had great combat (though XIII-2 was a bit too easy) and while the stories were weak they at least kept me interested throughout. The art direction and music of all three were great and I liked most of the characters. They weren't top-tier FF games by any means but they weren't still pretty good. Shame LR wasn't on more powerful hardware, because that framerate was painful at times.
>>
>>315339905
You really play JRPGs for the gameplay? I mean the RPG elements keep you invested because you want to get more of that sweet gear so you can get through tedious battles even quicker to get more sweet gear, but how is that not tedious? The actual gameplay (battles) is generally just a juggling act of attacking, buffing and healing, which I don't personally find fun. Sometimes they'll throw in some action mechanics to keep the moment to moment gameplay a bit more interesting but I still don't think it holds a candle to other genres in the fun factor.
Genuine thoughts? Just don't see the appeal. I only play JRPGs for the story/world/atmosphere/comfy factor
>>
X had a semblance of Squaresoft's self-editing powers, whether it story or gameplay.

X-2 was full blown Japanese developer indulgence where every fanfiction level idea was included, no matter how much it departed from the original reference material.

By the time 13 came around, they decided that editing their work made the games seem "mysterious" and open-ended, but rather than ever expand on what might've been interesting ideas in the interest of plot or gameplay, where scraped in favor of hot sales and guaranteed merchandising opportunities.

Japanese developers went full-blown anime mode, and that's why companies who's games used to play like fun (albeit immature) novels are like candy-coated trash that doesn't let you do anything. They're hardly games at all. It's selling you the experience of experiencing the franchise. Hot Garbage, and the people who enjoy it are eternally 14 FF7 fans.
>>
>>315340837
Some exceptions apply obviously. Dark Souls is one of my favourite games ever gameplay-wise and it's technically a JRPG, though a lot of people dispute that and call it something else. Really it's closer to an action game I'd say...
>>
>>315340837
>You really play JRPGs for the gameplay?
Yes.

If you play JRPGs but dont like their gameplay then your opinion on them isnt worth a shit to me.
>>
>>315332772
the problem is when you do NOT want to fight to move around.
>>
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>>315322103
Haha holy shit I thought Sonic's fanbase was the most delusional but I see they have some competition. Nice job anon.
>>
>>315320452
I prefer 13-2 over the first and third games as well.
>>
>>315341387
>if you can't refute, shitpost!
>>
>>315320461
Gods, I know people hated the battle system in XII, but I loved being able to set up how my allies behaved based on exact parameters.
>>
>>315319992
>it's just as linear as FF 10
FF 10 is a lot less linear, but FF 13 had other problems, like only having one fucking city in the entire game, and having unexistent story unless you read everything. To be fair, it's not a bad story; they just didn't know how to show it to the player. But FF XIII-2 and XIII-3 had awful story. It doesn't even make sense.
>>
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>>315341640
Sorry man, that autism is just too much even for me. Enjoy your shit game and your even shittier vidya tastes. :^)
>>
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>>315325739
>so much better without the fucking time mechanic

Jesus, it's like you didn't even play it. Were you spamming time-stop in normal fights or something? I can't imagine anyone but reviewers being that bad at the game. I ran out of things to do in day 5 of my first playthrough.
>>
>>315342202
It never ceases to amaze me that some people had trouble with the time limit. Chronostasis meant you had all the time you could possibly want. As long as you don't run away from battles you were fine. It's the same shit with the Atelier games. You have to play like a retard to run out of time.
>>
Why do people on /v/ even bother answering OP's dumbass fucking question? You can TELL the nigga didn't even play 10 and he probably just bandwagoned onto FF with 13 after coming from Kingdom Hearts to begin with.

Get this...

10 and 13 ARE TERRIBLE and I mean T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E fucking games. Not terrible ff's, not terrible rpg's, TERIIBLE fucking games. They have no depth whatsoever, and I'm tired of faggots that know NOTHING about game design let alone final fantasy defend them.

Seriously, fuck these 2. Just go back and play 1-9 and 12. YES 7 is overrated as fuck and has a cancerous fanbase, BUT it is NO 10 or 13.
>>
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>>315343789
>mfw niggers dont realize that FFX is one of the best games ever made
>>
FFX has a better story, better characters (which is amazing because you play as the biggest dork ever in X), and the levels are linear but not quite as linear as XIII.

X doesn't suffer from as much jpop nonsense as XIII either. Those 3 resistance members at the beginning of XIII, Snow, and Vanille are on a level of obnoxiousness that X never reaches, even in the worst Tidus moments.
>>
>>315319992
>Why does everyone hate shit so much when it's just as shitty as shit?

Just watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II2VHj9cWOU
>>
>>315343789
FFX was a critical and commercial success. It was never regarded as a poor representation of the JRPG genre by any serious publication, and pretending likening it to the steaming turd that is XIII to fit in with an online community, while fitting, is silly.
>>
>>315344824
>caring about critical and commercial success
>assassin's creed and cod are criticl and commercial successes

Are you being serious right now? No really are you being fucking serious?? I don't give a FUCK about hivemind bullshit. I love rpg's. Scratch that, I love GOOD games, and 10 was absolutely bargain bin fan-tier garbage. The sheer that THIS was the followup to the greatness that was 9 on a nextgen console is surely deplorable.
>>
>>315319992

FFX had some deep fucking lore.
>>
>>315345394
Assassin's Creed and Call of Duty are critical and commercial successes because they are good games. You are of course using these series because they use a tired formula, but this is noted by most publications with every successive yearly title.

Final Fantasy X was well-liked by most because it is a very polished game. It has its downsides, but you sound like a butthurt autist pretending it's a poor game. It's very good and no matter how much you hate it that's not going to change.
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