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To all of the fighting game community, why isn't Smash Bros

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To all of the fighting game community, why isn't Smash Bros consider as a fighting game?
>>
It is, the fighting game community tries very hard to make it as un-fun as possible.
>>
>>263840925
this
>>
Because it is designed to be a party game.
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>>263840724
Because it's a fucking party game. I have over 10,000 hours in Smash since the 64, I've gone on 2,000 victory strikes. I'm fucking obsessed with the game but I can recognize it's a party game.
>>
Because it's not exactly like all the other fighting games
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It's for kids.
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>>263840724
Because is not a game
And characters in it don't fight eachother
furthermore you don't win the fight if you kill your opponent
>>
Because it's not a Street Fighter clone.
>>
I'm a tourney level player for SF4 and I've played in a few Smash tournaments - I do fairly well.

The smash fanbase is far more autistic and unable to adapt to change. It's true that their game isn't a true fighting game, there is not enough emphasis on learning the game (ie being skilled at it) and being able to pull off great combos while also exploring the meta when not on the field. Smash doesn't have that.
>>
>>263840724
Skill ceiling is way too fucking high for it to be one. The amount of tactical depth is fucking incredible. I've a friend who's a goddamn neurosurgeon and even he's too slow for Melee's techgame. It's far and away the most advanced "fighter" (though I don't refer to it as such) to have ever existed, and I'm not sure if one on its level will ever exist ever again.
>>
Slightly on topic didnĀ“t Sakurai say fighters would be mirrored now. (Like Traditional fighting games)
What happened to that?
>>
>>263840724
because its not a traditional fighting game. its a platform fighter
i'm sure there have been enough clones of SSB that it can have its own genre though
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>>263842721
>>
>>263840724
>4 players
>Percentage and knock off level
>Stage hazards
>Simplicity of command input
>Level design

It just has so much in it screaming "This does not fit the fighting game genre"
>>
Some do, some don't. Why do Smash fans care?
>>
>>263843195
You forgot:

>items like a bomb or a pokeball that can easily kill you if you have enough damage

The game sure is fun, but it's not exactly a fighting game.
>>
>>263842150
This. It's devoid of any mechanics common to the genre. Its a beat em up or a brawler.
>>
>>263840724
Cause it plays like a board game and has a whole bunch of minigames... oh wait.
>>
>>263840724
The same reason World of Warcraft and League of Legends are not considered fighting games
>>
>>263842276
If that were the case Marvel and Guilty Gear wouldn't be considered fighting games either.
>>
Because Smash is a party game.
The autists that want it taken seriously go to extreme lengths like remaking the entire game.
>>
>>263840724
Saving that pic for future autism threads.
>>
>>263844959
Go ahead my friend, its all yours
>>
because even the people who make it have told you autistic fucks it is not a fighting game.
it is a party brawler.
>>
Because it doesn't have set health bars and the core gameplay and controls are very different.

Also because the FGC naturally seeks to shit on games it deems less "hardcore" and Smash's colorful graphics, characters, and inclusion of items and stage hazards makes it a prime target
>>
Smash is too simple
>>
>>263845094
Except its not a brawler unless you only play multi man.
>>
I love how this is the only game where /v/ thinks it's okay to play casually at. This game is and has been a part of the FGC for years now. Deal with it and don't watch Evo if you're so asspained about it being a real fighting game. The skill cap is just as high as SF3 because it's based on reading your opponent and reacting quickly.
>>
>>263846581
It's not a fighting game.
>>
>>263846581
>part of the FGC
No, it isn't. It's not a main stage event at evo so don't pretend it's a fighting game.
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>>263840724
>>263840724
Non-transferable skill-set. Playing smash for 10 years will teach you virtually nothing about playing any real fighting game.

Playing Super Turbo for 10 years though, you'll be very comfortable picking up almost any real fighting game in a very short space of time.
>>
Because it's the equivalent of playing guile on SF4 for 3ds
>>
>>263840724
The fighting community is so exclusive it only considers games fighting games if they're one-on-one battles using health bars in a static environment with no obstacles where you can only move on a 2D plane. I've seriously heard arguments that Soul Calibur isn't a fighting game because you can move in 3 dimensions.
>>
Depends, do you guys consider sumo wrestling a form of fighting?
>>
>>263846679
>Share's plenty of traits with fighting games
>not a fighting game

>Easy to play
>party game

how retarded are you?
>>
>>263843195
While I agree or am neutral to some of your points, I don't get the "simplicity of input = bad" argument.

Capcom Jojo only had 4 buttons and it was hype.
>>
>>263847637
But anon its a party weapon brawler
>>
>>263847707
There's one in Street Fighter, so yes. Yes I do.
>>
>>263841163
>>263841561
>>263844849
By definition, all fighting game are party games (i.e. games primaly designed to play with your friends on the same couch)
>>
>>263847707
No, but it's still a sport.
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>>263847997
True. Online is a cancer killing gaming.
>>
>>263847707
Yea, considering sumo guy is pretty much a staple in most fighters
>>
>>263848395
I can't think of any outside of e-honda and that little girl in KOF 2000
>>
>implying a game cant be both high-competitive and party-based.
>>
Who cares?
Fightanfags, is the Wii U Pro Controller good for fighting games? What about the Xbox One?
>>
Smash Bros. games are fighters by proper definition. It doesn't matter what those lames say.
>>
Bitch please compare BB&Capcom Fighters to this shit? It's too simple, requires no handwork to play decently.
>>
>>263845761
>[email protected]
lol
>>
>>263842150
Kinda looks like his eyebrow is giving a thumbs up
>>
>>263847502
If you're good at Age of Empires, you can pick up pretty much any other RTS, understand the fundamentals and adapt very quickly after picking up the meta.

If you're good at Smash... you're just good at Smash.
>>
>>263848837
no by definition they are not fighting games and never will be
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>>263842839
They're mirrored now.

Try it out with Mario.
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>>263842721
Are you even trying or is this some kind of meta-ironic troll shitpost?
>>
>>263840724

Sakurai himself said it's a party game yet Smashfags keep denying it saying he's full of shit.

Smashfags are truly the worst.
>>
>>263849225
Its obvious bait
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>>263849195
All of them? I remember seeing some recent screenshots this not being the case. is it an option?
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>>263840724
Because the community evolved from a different path. When people started taking SSB and SSBM more seriously and get better at it, there wasn't that much influx from other fighting games, mostly due to the fact that the games are on Nintendo consoles, which doesn't have a lot to offer to fighting gamers other wise, but only because the control scheme is so different and you play with an analog stick. That divide caused a lot of issues, like the more serious fighting players that only want to play this for fun, as if other fighting games aren't fun, and contempt for the people who wanted to take the game further because there's an already established srs business fighting game scene.
>>
>>263849268
>The creator of this knife said it's a hammer but since he created it that means he is right
Smash isn't a party game.
Smash isn't a fighting game
>>
Smash isn't a fighting game like SF/MVC by definition - that doesn't mean it's not superior to all of them, though.

Which it is.
>>
>>263849268
Because 4 player free for all with items on random stages is like a different game compared to tournament rules.
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>>263849332
Some of them. Characters with weapons, and some characters Sakurai doesn't care about aren't mirrored.
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>>263840724
It has way too many things for casuals. It's a good party game, it's not really a good fighting game.

Matches are also boring as hell to watch.
>>
>>263849476
SF/MVC >>>>>> Smash Bros.
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>>263847502
Agreed.
There's nothing wrong with liking or playing SMB, just stop trying to convince me that it's a fighter.
No one needs to justify their enjoyment by trying to prove that it's on the same competitive level as a decent FG.
>>
>>263849332
Some characters simply don't need it, like Pikachu.

Some characters it would be hard to do without fucking things up, like Link.

But for Villager, Mario, and Mega Man, yes, their pose tries to be the same depending on what direction you're facing.
>>
"Party game" isn't even a fucking genre, I don't know why people keep throwing that term out there.

Smash isn't really a "fighting game" in the traditional sense, if anything it's pretty much its own genre.
>>
>>263847637
What does that make Tekken?
>>
>>263849747
It's not a genre but it's a term for games you can play with your friends without utterly destroying them in 2 seconds, which Smash Brothers games aren't at all if you ask me.
>>
When played with tournament rules (which are well-established and accepted by the tourney community), Smash Bros is a fighting game.

When played under any other circumstances, Smash Bros is a party brawler.

Why is this so difficult to understand?
>>
The game's creator has said himself it is not a fighter
It's mario party tier
Now stop trying to force your kid genre shit down others throats and play your party games
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>>263849891
3D party game
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>>263847997
So MOBAs and Arena Shooters are party games? Are games with multiplayer party games?
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>>263849969
people just cant gasp the fact that something different to street fighter is a fighting game.
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Fighting games take skill. thats pretty much the gist of it.

Skill tree ( Hardest to pleb tier)
>TT2
>MVC3
>King of Fighters
>Any of those faggy weaboo fighters like BB or some indie shit
>Tekken 6/ Street fighter 4
>Killer Instinct=Mortal kombat
> Anything else like soulcalibur and Dead or alive, which is just like who can tap the fastest.


> Super Smash bros melee.
>>
>>263850167
this
fucking constantly whining at fighting game tournaments
even the DOA community isn't this bad
>>
>>263840724
Because it is actually fun and requires skill instead of just button mashing.
>>
>>263849614
>every stage plays the same
>every character too to an extent
>only 1v1
>no items
>millions of different versions of the same fucking game
>better than smash bros
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>>263850370
TT2 and MVC3 harder than Street Fighter/ Kof.

Son shut the fuck up, you don't know a thing about fighting games.
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>>263850370
I agree with your list except for MVC3 being anywhere near that high
KOF is too low and no SF3 nigga
smash is too high, needs more space bars
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You have to do so much to the core game to even try to come close to a fighting game and it's pathetic.

You have to remove stages that aren't pure single platforms, you have to make sure no stage hazards are there(imagine removing sand traps in golf tournaments), you have to remove items, you have to remove characters. I'm not talking Boss Characters. Those are understandable, but banning regular characters(Metaknight) because they're "baww! Too tough to beat!" is just fucking silly.

Now here. Have some Gill.
>>
My sister is almost as good as 90% of the Smash Bros Community. Thats why it is not a fighting game.
>>
>>263850370
>implying ultra isnt higher than TT2 and MVC
>>
>>263840724
I'm not sure I really care what arbitrary genre the games can be shoehorned into, but the overall competitive potential is an aspect that (some) smash games share with more traditional, SF type fighters. Melee in particular. I'm not sure I've ever seen a game that requires the same technical skill, speed, and precision to play 1v1 melee at a competitive level. On the other hand, yeah, playing free for all brawl with items on fucking pokefloats or some shit is obviously too big of a random clusterfuck to even feel good about if you win.
>>
>smash babbys claiming smash takes skill
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Even Sakurai is laughing at this
>>
its fun
>>
>>263850370
>MVC3
You were comparing skill floors and you put that game so high?
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>>263850634
>Every character too
Yea, zangeif and ky kisuke play so much alike.
>>
>>263850668
Pretty much this.
Fighting games take no skill whatsoever and anyone with practice can get good at smash because it isn't just about button mashing.
>>
>>263850634
>>every character too to an extent
Holy shit, do smashbabbies only actually play Smash?
Their tourneyfags atleast play other fighting games ( I hope )
>>
>>263850668
/thread
little sister tier party game
>>
>>263847637
No one free of autism or other assorted mental disorders is ever going to claim that Soul Calibur or other 3D FG's aren't fighters. No one who knows what they're talking about would say that MVC or any team based game isn't a fighter, that's bullshit.
You heard one or two idiots spout stupid shit and labeled everyone else the same.
>>
>>263850634
>every stage plays the same
>every character too to an extent
>only 1v1
>no items
>millions of different versions of the same fucking game
>better than smash bros

You just listed party game categories. kek. Go learn SF4, I bet you can't do a single FADC combo.
>>
>>263850770
>Being so bad at smash you have to insult it
>>
>>263850662
Except only about half the stages get banned and the most popular competitive stage is battlefield, not final destination. (battle field has 3 platforms). The meta knight ban lasted only a couple months and that was the only character ban to ever even happen since competitive smash started in 2005, so saying characters are banned is just dumb.
>>
>>263850662
Good thing that they never banned Meta Knight and don't only play on Final Destination.
Your meme knowleadge is good, though.
>>
>>263850329
A certain sect of the FGC is dumb about this. The appeal of competition for fighting games is supposed to be about reading your opponent, predicting their moves, and beating them tactically.

And then a bunch of loud autists who can't even place in major tournaments just want fighting games to have high input barriers -- because competition should be less about mind games and more about how many hours you spent practicing a complicated combo.

I wouldn't watch a single FG tournament if it were some lame ass combo showcase. But the mindgames and footsies in the finals of a major tournament for SF4 -- or, yes, Melee -- is fucking amazing to watch.
>>
>>263850635
Retard, read it again.
>>263850638
I forgot about Sf3 but it would be probably be around Usf4 now with the red focus.
>>263850674
Plebeian confirmed
>>
Why do you party game kiddies always cry about this?
Stop trying to fit in, you play a game for children so love it and move on
I'm sure you'll play vs my little sister at some point
>>
>>263850309
Mobas require you to all to be playing on a pc with an internet connection. Learn to read. He means same screen, same couch.
>>
>>263851123
>Good thing that they never banned Meta Knight

Except that they have, you retard.
>>
>>263849891
Highest level of fightan, Light years ahead of what a smash baby can understand
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>>263843195
>Can be 2 players
> ok, its different, you still KO you're oppenent.
> Neutral stages
> because quarter circle punch is hard,
> see 3rd.
>>
>>263840724
Because you can play more with more than two players.

It also have "items" and "special stages"
>>
>>263851292
You can LAN party a MOBA game.
>>
>>263850329
Nigger I love Virtua Fighter and Street Fighter.
You'll be hard pressed to find two franchises more different, but I can still understand why they're grouped in the same genre.
>>
>>263851543
So Little Fighter 2 isn't a fighter?
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>>263847502
So you mean it's unique and therefore bad?
>>
>>263849747
>"Party game" isn't even a fucking genre
Mario Party
>>
As a tourneyfag from melee, cs, tfc, tf2 (the comp scene used to be cool... Before engi update)

Fgc hates melee cause it doesn't have complicated inputs. That's it. The inputs are too simple and the arena too different.

Despite the simpler inputs combos are harder cause 90% are improv which is harder than dial a combo.

My .2
>>
For the sake of balancing how it's classified.

When considered as a fighting game, Smash is either completely unbalanced (items and stage bias and such) thus shit or pretty damn boring (no items, fox only, final destination) thus shit.

When considered as a party game, it's pretty fun.

It's a sort of middle ground which communicates the game better. Hell, the term party game is basically a middle ground anyway.
>>
>>263840724
It IS considered a fighting game and gets tons of respect+viewers during EVO

the "it's a p-p-party game guys!" is a maymay created by casuals who are mad people are better at the game than they are.
>>
>>263851702
>My 2
>Gets a 2
NIIIICEEEE
>>
muh balance
muh health bars
>>
>>263851636
Exactly
I don;t care if these guys love smash but stop crying all the time about this
No one even its creator consider it a fighter, so why is this assblasted fanbase so whiny about it all the time
Only children or.. manchildren whine this much
>>
>>263851678
No.

Real fighting games need to be very similar to each other, like street fighter.
>>
>>263851728
You know memes very well but you don't understand much about anything else.
>>
>Game where you fight people
>it's not a fighting game
>>
>>263847502
A good Melee player has a far more advanced knowledge of spacing, footsies, and hitbox detection than most SF players of the same skill level.

Also Melee and KOF are actually fairly transferable, though KOF has a generally higher skill floor.
>>
>>263852041
I guess Zelda is a fighter then
>>
>>263847637
there are people on /v/ who Dont consider mortal combat gold a fighting game cause you could move in 3d
>>
>>263851732
>gets a ton of respect
The only reason it's even at EVO is because years ago there were whiny little manchildren like you who wouldn't stop crying about being let in
No one really considers it a figher, even its creator
/thread
/checkmate
No go do your homework and you can play for 20 minutes
>>
>>263852041
Okay. RPG's are FG now.
>>
>>263851180
Did you Watch tekken at Evo this year?
Most Street fighter players would be amazed.

Typical pro Streetfighter match (If its not snakeeyez or fucking fuudo or some yun or whatever,)

>Round start
>"HADOUKEN" "TIGER SHOT" SPIRALFLARE"
>"Back dash"
"Fierce standing poke"
>"HADOUKEN TIGER SHOT SPIRAL FLARE"
>" watch that anti air/get a dp in there
>"Oh wow 4 hit plink so skill"
>Time up corner tactics

ROUND 2
>rinse and repeat.
That Rose vs Sagat fight at EVO Made me fucking sick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndldPOFsuJY

Typical Tekken Match:
>holy fucking shit what the fuck is going on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAKtgV8SZh8
>>
>>263851732
didn't help samurai said it was a party game.
I believe smash is a competitive game none the less, for god sakes they have competitive monopoly.
Horse shoes, they throw fucking metal at a rod is competitive.

I'm just saying anything can be competitive , no matter what the original purpose. Also I don't think they would have held a huge smash tourney because they felt it was just a "party" game too
>>
>>263850947
>>263850857
>no physics at all, people just get knocked back and that's it
>again, character are the same, other than a few combos which mostly do the same thing.
>>
>>263851968
Where am I wrong?

Genre names exist to classify and communicate the basics of what a game is. Party game fits Smash Bros. better than Fighting game. Party Brawler if you want to go sub with it.
>>
>>263851702
>implying a FG tournament should be a combo showcase with "complicated inputs" to determine the winner

These faggots must be bored as hell when they watch grand finals at any SF4 major and it's 99% footsies and spacing games.
>>
>>263851569
Not on the same screen.
>>
>>263851569
stop being a strawman you fucking idiot
>>
>>263852079
Smashfag here.
KOF seems pretty interesting to me. Are only fightpads and arcade sticks good controllers for it? Is the Wii U Pro Controller any good for fightan games?
>>
>>263851932
>2d game where you hurt people to knock them out
>Not fighting
What the fuck is this thread about? Vernacular?
>>
>>263851702
Inputs are hardly ever mentioned in this topic. Inputs are only the means to an end, and most FG players understand that.
The debate centers around mechanics, not inputs.
>>
>>263851051
>b-but! m-my game t-takes s-skill! t-that makes it better!
>if it's a party game it's AUTOMATICALLY worse than my s-skill game!!!
>i h-hate you SO FUCKING MUCH!! FUCK YOU!!
>>
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>>263840724
Is Juri good for a beginner??
>>
>>263851307
This was due not to butthurt, but a glitch that allowed him to, with a certaiin control setup, to be invulnerable indefinitely.
>>
>Game's creator says it is not a fighter
>Assblasted virgins say he's wrong and it is so and please accept us or we're telling mom
>>
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>mfw people say Smash is not competitive
>even though it basically revived EVO and brings in the most money
>>
>>263840724
Sakurai admitted its a party game. Thus it is a party game
>>
>>263850662
metaknight hasn't been banned in a tourney in brawl (lmfao fucking brawl) since 2008
It's always nice to see fuckers like you on here who try to talk about shit they know nothing about
Like you said, "It's pathetic."
>>
>>263852184
>tekken
>implying anyone with a high enough IQ to comprehend mind games could play more than 10 minutes of Tekken without getting bored.

It's like you think skill is defined by "who can dial a combo faster"
>>
>>263852136
That's a game where you swing a stick at things
>>263852173
And that's a game where you take turns exchanging numbers with people
>>
The Smash Bros Pro Scene is considered casual by other Pro Scenes.

Its easy to play other fighting games, find the kids playing smash, be the new face for awhile and take there money since they have no mind games other then " muh l-cancel and muh c stick". Edge guarding also ruins smash bros, which is how i make all 90% of my wins. I main Jiggly Puff and abuse J+NA
>>
The game at the core is not a fighting game, but when you pretty much strip it of most of its features, it resembles that of... well, still not a traditional fighting game, but I guess some kind of action platform game.
>>263843195
>Stage hazards
I don't think that's a valid point. Injustice has those.
>simplicity of command input
Divekick.
>>
>>263852041
>Dark Souls not being a fighting game
>>
>>263852561
>NSYNC revived the pop genre
>NSYNC broke the beatles record
NSYNC must be good
frogface.jpg
>>
>>263852243
>I am fucking retarded: The post

>>263852276
Party game doesn't fit Smash Bros since it doesn't play like Mario Party.
And I meant the NO ITEMS, FINAL DESTINATION, FOX ONLY part too.
>>
>>263852184
holy shit I couldn't stop laughing that first match man
TIGER TIGER SOUL SOULS SOUL TIGER SOUL TIGER SOUL TIGET SOULT GDJSLKFJDSLKFSDFJSf

holy fuck .
>>
>>263852776
And that's a game where you parry
>>
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>>263852079
>>
>>263852567
>>263852560
end of discussion
>>
>>263852595
>t-they don't ban him anymore so your point is null!

You're fucking retarded. My argument still stands. They still went out of their way to ban someone because he was "baww! Too tough!"

Now go on and continue begging Evo to keep accepting Melee.
>>
>>263847502
>Non-transferable skill-set. Playing smash for 10 years will teach you virtually nothing about playing any real fighting game.

Yeah and Halo, COD and Counter-Strike teach you absolutely nothing you can use elsewhere (or worse, teach you tactics that wont work).

Guess none of those are FPSs!
>>
>>263852898
I think you're replying to the wrong person?
>>
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>>263852634
>Only plays Casual fightan's,
>Cant imagine a fundamental Parry system
>designed to stop the dialing of combos.

So, do you main Fox or Falco?
>>
>>263852759
Have you ever even watched a real tournament?

You and your faggot friends trying out tourney rules one night does not count.
>>
>>263852793
What's your point?

Are you one of them faggots who dislike *N'Sync?
>>
>>263852898
>Meta Knight isn't even good
>>
First of all, not all smash games are the same. Melee is incredibly fast paced, difficult, and precise. Whereas Brawl and smash 4 are not. I think its safe to say that Melee is a fighting game while the others are party games.
>>
>>263846857
uh

last two years melee has mainstaged evo...are you retarded or something?
>>
>>263852949
I really wish you would research the shit you spew but you're going to resort to green texting so I'm not even going to bother.
>>
>>263852836
>Mario Party is the only party game and games must be exactly like it to be considered a party game
>I know more about Smash Bros than its creator
>>
>>263853141
>The creator of a knife said it's a hammer so that means it's a hammer!
Define party game.
>>
>>263852243
Wow, you know literally nothing.
>>
>>263853082
Maybe at your shit-tier casual level you can't face him. But he's ass in tourney-level play

>b-but I win on SF4 matches on Xbox Live!!
>>
>>263853053
1/10
>>
>>263852184
Just because you don't understand everything that's going on doesn't mean it's not happening.
>>
Can Jump Ultimate Stars and Dissidia Final Fantasy be consider fighting games?
I don't see why they shouldn't.
>>
>>263853117
Fuck off nerd who watches evo
>>
>>263842150
>>
>>263852949
It wasn't "baww, too tough", it was a response to an invulnerability glitch
>>
>>263853039
No, I was talking about a decently sized tournament. The smash side was admittedly bigger then the SF4 and Tekken participants combined.

It was like taking candy from casual babbies from then on.
>>
it is a fighting game. most fighting games are near copies of each other except for a few technical things so there's this mindset that that's how they all have to be.
>>
>>263847502
THIS.
THIS.
THIS.
Thread over, everyone out of the pool
>>
Actually to anyone in the know, the smash scene has been largely accepted by the fgc for at least a couple of years.

There charity funding for an evo spot, consistent attendance and passion for the game earnt the respect of streamers like Spooky and players like Jwong.

In case you didn't realise, real opinions are subject to change and are not as static as your memes.
>>
>>263852897
>Every fighting game that has a parry is not a fighting game
>>
>>263853259
Jump, no. It's similar to SSB. It's an action game with platforms. Dissidia, I guess so. It fits.
>>
>>263853220
Are you really using some absolutely retarded analogy about a knife?
The creator said it's a party game/brawler, most know this to be true but some assblasted fanatics of the party game claim to know better?
What a bunch of whiny tryhards
You're like the little brother who snitches to his mom that his older brother wont let him play
Figures that'd be the case with smash kiddies
>>
>Brawler
>Sub-genre of fighting game
They are fighting games.
DoA has hazards
SC has ring outs
Tekken and DoA have terrain which can be used to advantage
It's a fighting game. The lack of healthbars is moot, otherwise Bushido Blade would not be considered a fighting game
>>
>>263853243
I was implying that TekkenT2 had such a diverse set of things happening at once, I couldntt possible consider everything. Where in Smash it would be " look, hes got him in that chain grab again"
>>
>>263840724
>To all of the fighting game community, why isn't Smash Bros consider as a fighting game?
but the fgc does consider it a fighting game

smash is like one of the top games at evo, and every time I go, people love it there.

only people who bitch about it being a party/fighting game are people on /v/
>>
It is a fighting game, there is no reason it can't be. I don't even play the games, but its obvious they are.

>But you kill people by knocking them out of the stage
Soul Calibur allows you to do this

>But you do combos by juggling, not by chaining moves together
Tekken

>But Sakurai said...
Sakurai and nintendo are horribly deluded when it comes to the competitive aspects of their games. I appreciate the man and his work, but this is the guy who added tripping to the game, and then turns around and adds final destination versions of every stage. Nigga is high as fuck.

>Yeah but you can play with 4 people
You can do that in plenty of fighting games. SFxT comes to mind instantly

>But items and shit
Marvel has a mode where you use cards to make people OP, you just don't use them.

It requires the same amount of skill as other fighters and contains 99% of the things they do. Footsies, spacing, momentum, combos, counter picks, and stocks are basically rounds using the Injustice/KI style where you retain your health/percent.
>>
>>263840724
There is only 1 true fighting game.

That is Punch-out for the wii
>>
>>263853226
Fox is considered the best character in Meele. He won less than 1\3 of the tournaments.
Meta Knight won 2\3 of all tournaments in Brawl
>>263853525
>The creator said it's a hammer, most know this to be true but some assblasted fanatics of the knife claim to know better?
What a bunch of whiny tryhards
You're like the little brother who snitches to his mom that his older brother wont let him play
>>
>>263852930
Good argument. You really made a case for yourself there.
>>
>>263853512
no?

go to a real tournament, everyone is annoyed by and avoids the smash players and most tournaments shove them in a corner because of how smelly and loud they are

smash fags also don't enter any other games, so calling them part of the community is wrong
>>
>>263853585
>I know better about the game than the guy who has made them for years
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I've never seen a bunch of beta nerds try so hard to be accepted into a genre of video games
>>
Wait, so if capcom suddenly called Street Fight IV a racing game, does that make it a racing game?
>>
>>263853585
You say that you don't play the games and proceed to make an objective statement about how much skill it has to play any of them and how they function.
OK then.
>>
>>263853585
>It requires the same amount of skill as other fighters
Hahaahahahahaha
>>
>>263852769
Injustice's hazards were designed with competition in mind. Nothing that randomly fucks you over. If you know your positioning on the stage, you can control it. In Smash, an item just falls randomly and LOLKO.
>>
>>263853912
>go to a real tournament, everyone is annoyed by and avoids the smash players and most tournaments shove them in a corner because of how smelly and loud they are
that's just plain untrue. I mean I get that you are trying to bait with the whole "smelly and loud" thing but smash is a fun game to play and watch at any fgc event, and a ton of people love it.
>>
>>263852079
>Also Melee and KOF are actually fairly transferable
I don't understand this claim at all.
>>
It's just /v/, I've played Tekken, SF and SC for years and I consider Smash a fighter, so do other people I know. Just because it doesn't have the same skillset doesn't mean it's not applicable as a fighter. There's very little transfer between SF and SC for instance.
>>
>>263853932
>>263854014

Anons, are you guys alright?
>>
>>263854014
yeah lol
you don't even have to swirl around the d-pad to shoot projectiles and they call that skill??

LOL @ smash fags lmao
>>
>>263850167
>your kid genre
>said the neckbear manchild on a vidya forum
>>
>>263853975
Maybe if they also designed it as such, like what Sakurai did.
>>
>people still citing the roundtable as proof that smash is a party game

You faggots forget that's the same roundtable where Sakurai explicitly referred to it as a fighting game
>>
>>263853975
Yes.
THEY CREATED THE GAME SO WHY ARE YOU CONTESTING YOU FUCKING TRY HARD BETTA TOURNEYFAG
>>
>>263854025
Stage Hazards and Items are different.
>>
>>263853762
You just proved my point for me.
Man the smash community really is kids who are desperate to be part of a genre
Sakurai is right btw, deal with it
>>
>>263853395
Based on what you describe it doesn't sound like there's any real scene wherever you are.
>>
Smash Bros is not a fighting game, it belongs to its own genre, the autism brawler.
>>
>>263853557
Brawler is a sub-genre of action games, not fighting games.
>>
>>263854102
>Said projectile has next to no recovery.
Macro Guile faggots please go
>>
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>>263854231
>Betta
>>
>>263854102
Smash has a character whose entire purpose is to press down b next to the enemy. Skill my ass.
>>
>>263853517
Every game where all you do is parry is.
>>
>>263852358
>Wii U
>fighting games
>>
>>263852759
>Edge guarding also ruins smash bros,


babby that doesn't understand edge mindgames detected

or rather, Smash in general
>>
I had a whole post and argument all thought out.
What the fuck was I thinking, the smash kiddies on /v/ wouldn't read it any of it anyways. If half the smash players had to be semi competent at atleast one other fighting game that wasn't PSA:BR, they would quit smash altogether.
>>
>>263854129
I'm not the one who plays a party game for children, the neckbeard is yours my friend
>>
>>263850635
>>263850638
>>263850814
To be honest, Marvel takes a lot of skill in the sense that you need extreme mental fortitude to put up with the bullshit and stupidity in that game. You can play the most honest game against some teams, then come up against a mongoloid playing Wolverine/Doom/Vergil and have to change your entire mindset more than any other game would force.
>>
>>263854043
Unfortunately it is true. Maybe not the smelly part, but other game players tend to avoid the smash corner. They are usually loud and rude. And no, not a lot of people come to watch smash. They usually do it if there are no other games going on
>>
>>263854370
You try and get consistent rests.
Go on.
I'll wait.
>>
>>263854431
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa7MQf2lWcc
>>
>For Glory
Fightan

>For Fun
Party

There, even Nintendo make it easy to understand.
>>
>>263853762
>Fox is considered the best character in Meele. He won less than 1\3 of the tournaments.
>Meta Knight won 2\3 of all tournaments in Brawl

nice claims, got a source?
>>
>>263853585
>But you do combos by juggling, not by chaining moves together

not to mention wave shines and shit
>>
The skill cap is considerably higher in melee than any other fighting game I play, and the game is a huge part of the FGC. That being said, I still don't consider it a fighting game because it doesn't have the same mechanics that any other fighting game has. It's it's own thing. It's a great series, and welcome in the FGC, but most people wouldn't consider it a fighting game.
>>
>>263854551
>They usually do it if there are no other games going on
Yeah. I wouldn't let the streams fool you. Hell, even a lot of streams have a small audience unless SSB is the only game being played.
>>
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>>263847502
>mfw plenty of Smash players would still debate this

At least we're not on Smashboards, this would get slammed before eventually being deleted
>>
>>263854489
The funniest shit to me is how they're all going on about their party game as if it was chess
>the mindgames
LOL
>>
>>263850370
Even weaboo shit requires more skill than MVC3, Faggot. Let me fix this shit.

KOF (2002 and 1998)
SSF III (due parry mechanics)
TT2/Pre 6 Tekken games
Guilty Gear (any)
Tekken 6/SSF4 (too slow)
Killer instinct/ Mortal Kombat (simple imputs)
Skull Girls/Garou and other SNK stuff.
Samurai Showdown/Last Blade (Large Recover frames)
MVC3 (tons of unbalanced characters, cheesy moves)
Soul Calibur/Dead or Alive/Blaz Blue/ (button mashers can win easily)

Bloody Roar

Power Stone

Smash (Not Fighting game)
>>
>>263853220
>Multiple players
>Teams possible but not necessary
>Not skill-focussed
>Built around the idea of groups having fun
>Inherently entertaining for spectators

Prove to me that it's a knife or just stop with your conjecture.
>>
>>263854025
Stage hazards* and items are not relevant in competitive Smash.

*except for Pokemon Stadium, which are telegraphed and predictable
>>
People don't want it to be a fighting game because they can't accept that Smash is more popular than the entire fighting game genre. They hate the fact that their genre is dead and the most popular game in it isn't a street fighter clone.
>>
>>263854789
>tons of unbalanced characters
>tons
It's more like 3.
>>
>>263853975
No.

If they designed it like a racing game and it played like a racing game and then they called it a racing game, then yeah, it'd be a racing game.
>>
>>263854056
Then you must not be very good at fighting games.
>>
>>263851691
Not bad. Just different.
>>
>>263854412

>3S is not a fighting game

>>263854370

>SF has characters whose entire purpose is to hit grab next to the enemy

>>263854579

he was probably talking about Fox m8
>>
>>263854803
>Multiple players
>Teams possible but not necessary
>Not skill-focussed
>Built around the idea of groups having fun
>Inherently entertaining for spectators

Little Fighter 2
>>
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>>263854993
Feel free to explain how the two are transferable.
>>
wow just wow
smashkids actually think the game is deep
I like it but damn you faggots are cancer
party game, move along
>>
>>263854370
that's my point lol

smash fags are gay faggots who cant play real game rofl

typical fag retarded redditors w
>>
>>263854670
didn't know about that, play with whatever's comfortable for you, but it may be harder to get decent execution than using an arcade stick
>>
>>
>>263854919
Just because Smash has a more vocal and autistic fanbase doesn't mean it's more popular. People out there don't really care about this game as much as /v/ believes.
>>
>>263852184
>Sagat
The rose player actually had to try a few things. That Sagat was doing just one thing. Damn this made me rage.

Is this really all Sagat players have to fucking do?
>>
>>263855096
Also not a fighting game.
>>
>>263854489
Canada has a decently size fighting game community. Especially if you live in the top three cities in the country. The Smash Community around here is fucking Huge, Booming. A plethora of neckbeardos and man children. They dont play anything else, They dont talk about anything else. It really is Final Destination all the time and you are lucky if you get to see Shiek. Smash bros has a very low skill ceiling, so it attracts many clique sorts of betas ( the tumblr and reddit/4chan group of this generation) You cannot prove a thing to these people.

Try some fighting games please
>>
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>>263855053
Not one character in SF is that one dimensional.
If all a grappler could do was grab they would be unuseable.
>>
>>263855256
Against Rose, who has few options, I imagine so.
>>
>>263852427
I've had conversations at EVO.

I'm not asking for your thoughts I was letting you know.

Muh combos.

Muh health bars.
>>
>>263854291
Fighting games are a subgenre of action games. Brawlers are a subgenre of fighting games.
>>
>>263855209
Okay, thanks.
>>
>>263852952
>>263852952
There's tons of shit in counter-strike that is transferrable that typically doesn't show up in other games like the ones you mentioned
>>
>>263847837
4 buttons but still requires you to do motions.
>>
>>263855320
>Smash bros has a very low skill ceiling,
You mean Skill Floor. It's easy as hell to pick up.
>>
>>263855225
Brawl outsold any "real fighting game" in existence.
>>
>>263855225
You can say any buzzwords you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's the only fighting game people talk about outside FGC. This isn't the 90s anymore.
>>
>>263840724
It is. /v/ is retarded and that's it.
>>
>>263840724
ITT: Games cannot be more than one genre
>>
>>263855225
Don't even bother bro, these are the same people who signed e petitions when RE4 lost exclusivity and had a guy fired over Zelda's 8.6
It's a cancerous fanbase
>>
>>263854859
>>263854240
Fair enough. But then you get the issue with stuff like the Yellow Devil in Smash 4 and the F-Zero stage in Melee.

It ends up being
>standing here gets me actively punished by the stage for no reason other than just because, my opponent didn't even have to force an error in anything other than my spacing

while in Injustice
>standing here puts me at risk of an extended interactable combo or tool, at least nothing will randomly come and break the flow of the match by slapping everyone's shit for no reason
>>
>>263855217
If that list had anything to do with /v/ smash would be elder god tier
>>
>>263855481
No, I mean like anyone can get melee fundamentals down in 3 days.
Once there, its pretty fucking easy.
>>
>>263855256
he wasn't doing "one thing". There are eight different versions of his fireball, and knowing when to use which one is paramount to keeping Rose from jumping, focus dashing, reflecting, or using her own EX.
>>
>>263855678
Smash is not a fighting game
>>
>>263855483
Does that make it good?
I thought sales didn't matter?
Man all this flip flopping
>>
>characters are literally fighting in the game
>this is not a fighter game

I will never understand this.
>>
>>263855225
>the whole internet wanting those demo codes
>n-no cares
>>
>>263855335

hey, guess what?

same goes for characters in Melee, that's the point I was trying to make.
>>
>>263851051
Most combos just take practice. Skill at fighting games comes from zoning, reading, footsies, etc.
>>
>>263855483
Because it was on a platform that sold 100 million units. Watch SSB do less than MK8.
>>
>>263855647
Yellow Devil is telegraphed
>>
>>263855340
I don't care what you asked for, I'm giving it to you.
You had conversations with retards.
>>
>>263855734
>getting fundamentals down in 3 days
If you mean technical shit, it still takes time to be able to do it consistently, and it takes even more time to be able to apply it. In general, yeah. The technical stuff isn't terribly hard.
>>
>>263855806
only sensible post in this entire thread
>>
Games like Smash Bros., Power Stone or Budokai Tenkaichi are in a subgenre of fighting games called "arena fighters." This has to do with the arena you play on, which operates under different mechanics and/or win conditions than a normal versus game.

They're not fighting games strictly speaking and they definitely aren't beat 'em ups, which is a different genre altogether (i.e. Double Dragon, God Hand)
>>
>>263855865
Sm4sh has already sold a million units in Japan
>>
>>263840724
It's more of a party brawler than a fighting game. Party brawlers can consist of up to 4 players that battle each other on relatively big maps that may or may not have stage hazards with the added benefit of using fun items to have an advantage over the enemy.

Regular fighting games are 2 players tops on a small map that offers little to almost no movement. These fighting games allow you to do a wider variety of combos while sacrificing a larger portion of horizontal and vertical movement. These fightan games also have no items whatsoever to keep players on their toes.
>>
>>263855865
>smash 3ds already sold more than brawl in its opening week
lel
>>
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>>263855806
>nobody literally role plays in a roleplayig game
>somehow still called "rpg"
>>
>>263855806
>character literally has a gun and is played in first person (Portal)
>This is not a FPS

What retarded logic am I right?
>>
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Smash Bros is as much as a fighter as SF, MK, MvC and Tekken. While not a traditional fighter, it's still a fighting game to its core

>But Sakurai calls it a party game
He also called it a fighter multiple times and devs have well. Problem is people twist up his fucking words to meet their argument. Sakurai sees it as a party fighter as in something anyone can pick up and play and is better enjoyed with the insanity of all items on all stages. But that doesn't mean that it can't be competitive as well, Sakurai just focus on making it a casual fighter first, competitive second.
Also Party Game isn't a fucking genre. That shit is so vague and stupid because Street Fighter can be a party game, Mortal Kombat, Mahvel, Madden, FIFA, Halo, CoD, Mario Kart, WWE and other shit.
>>
>>263840724
Smash Bros is aimed at children. This is why.
>>
>>263855806
how has nobody pointed this out yet
>>
>>263852184
That first Rose win had me excited. Fuck, I love me some Rose.
>>
>>263855865
Best selling MK sold 3 million. Smash 4 has sold a million in a weekend
>>
>>263855521
Fuck you. Leave /v/ and your basement sometimes to see that no one cares. I know more people excited for fucking GG Xrd than Smash.
>>
This reminds me of smash on the n64, the people who played it were kids who swore it was deep and all that
If you're not in your teens, I feel pity for you autists whining about being accepted and deluding yourself into thinking smash is deep
I like the game but wow
>>
>>263843195
>>263843595
You can disable items and play on an entirely flat stage without any hazard.
>>
>>263855865
Is that really your excuse?
Either you are highly deluded or this a pretty good bait.
>>
>>263856205
>implying Dreamworks Fighter 4 or Ultimate Comic Book Superheroes vs Wacky Videogame Characters 3 aren't aimed at kids
>>
>>263856191
but it is. its a fps/puzzle game by definition. moron.
>>
>>263856059
Youkai Watch 2 sold 2 million. That's not really a feat.
>>
>>263855806
So world of warcraft and LoL are fighting games?
>>
>>263855757
>Fireballs are going different speeds and paths, its totally different.

Thats a shitty argument, but I''l accept since it still goes with the "precision and timing".
>>
>>263855806
>Destiny is called an MMO
>can only hold 16 players
I will never understand this.
>>
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>This thread
Makes me ashamed to own nintendo consoles
It's a party game, fun but a party game
>>
>>263855806
>>
>>263856478
If you give a child those games he wont have as much fun as pressing the buttons for the new smash bros.
>>
>>263855806
I asked my mom and she said Devil May Cry is a fighting game.
>>
>>263856482
It's not a FPS. It's first person puzzle.
Same with faggots calling Mirror's Edge a FPS. It's a first person platformer.
>>
>>263856482
Diluting the definition like that betrays the entire purpose autist.
If the definition was so loose there may as well be none at all.
>>
>>263855217
>virtua fighter, tekken, jojo and guilty gear in top tier
>garou and project justice not in top tier
What a shitty list
>>
>>263856283
Neat selling MK sold 30 million. For contrast the best SB sold 10.
>>
>>263856567
>Massively multiplayer online
Massive is subjective as fuck. Multiplayer online is just you and another person.

Massive to what? Yes its total bullshit, but marketers do this shit all the time.
>>
>>263856690
Pretty sure I've said that twice in this thread already, and only one person paid any heed to it.
>>
>>263856428
Fox only?
>>
>>263856694
Yeah, because only adult neckbeards played Street Fighter in the 90s.
>>
>>263856315
>muh anecdotal evidence!
Literally nobody knows what Guilty Gear is. It's a franchise that has only sold 1 million copies total since 1998 and you're seriously trying to say it's more popular than smash?
>>
>>263852949
Do you know what "broken" means? Because that's what Meta Knight is. When 95% of players pocket a character, there is a problem.

Also ST Akuma was banned too so don't get pretentious about character bans.
>>
>>263856690
>Smash doesn't have hit stun, overheads or high, mid, low, or counters.
>>
>>263856690
i'm not a tourneyfag but sounds like he never played smash
>>
>>263852184
>second round in Tekken
>that fucking team combo that took out 95% of Heihachi's health
Jesus fucking Christ.
>>
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>>263852448
This guy, every thread....
>>
>>263856953
>multiplayer online is you and ONE other person
We call that co-op online anon.
>>
>>263856545
It a is different though. At any point he has several options within just the projectile game. He can use an EX meter to go through one of Rose's fireballs or hit her focus to knock her back and gain ground, he can throw a HP shot to cancel her own, he can anticipate a jump to antiair, he can hope to hit an EX spiral with Ultra 1 or 2, etc. etc.
I can keep going on with these permutations.
>>
>>263856690
According to this picture, that makes Punch-Out a fighting game.
>>
>>263856690
now this is the definition of trying too hard
>>
>>263857068
>When 95% of players pocket a character,
Does Fox in Melee not count?
>>
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>>263856315

tippest kek m8

the fact that you know more people excited for xrd than people who are excited for Smash doesn't change the fact that there are about a dozen times as many people looking forward to Sm4sh than the next gg, thanks to the casuals

also I'm sure you'll be back at next Evo to make that post again when Melee and Sm4sh both get more entrants than xrd, even if they only get side tourneys and xrd is mainstage
>>
>>263852561
>revived EVO

what, no. it has to be dead first and it hasn't ever died.
>>
>>263852560
/thread

Time for homework kids, and no games until you're done.
>>
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>>263856315
There's a difference between numbers of people you know and the world anon.
>>
>>263857232
What the fuck is Punch-Out then?
>>
>>263856838
That's wrong, the entire series has only sold 32.5 million, the best selling game sold 3 million
>>
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>hurf durf it's not a soulless, cookie-cutter knock off like every other fighting game, so it can't be a fighting game!

Smash pros don't play with items, nor stage hazards and the metagame is every bit as complicated as a standard Weeb Button Masher vs Projectile Spam: Supreme Ultra IV Edition
>>
>>263856690
confirmed for literally never playing smash in your entire life
>>
>>263850662
Then why is Akuma banned in Super Turbo?
>>
>>263856471

The WiiU version of Smash 4 is basically guaranteed to sell less than Brawl.

The 3DS version might hit 12 million sales like Brawl did, though.
>>
>>263857394
Punch-Out is a puzzle game.
>>
>>263855757
Fuck off there are 4 versions you retard
Ex low and lows
ex high and high

No mid ball you fucking liar
>>
>>263857327
Fox is hard to use, so there are going to be lots of trash Foxes

Meta Knight you just spam nado and beat 3/4 of the cast.
>>
>>263857564
I always thought that too.
>>
>>263855217
>Soulcalibur II in low-tier
what's so bad about it?
>>
>>263843195
>Stage hazards
Fighting games can have them nigga, anyway you are right with your other reasons.
>>
>>263855734
>pretty fucking easy

To do what? Win EVO?

Yeah it's easy to learn the foundations of competitive smash and roll your friends until they learn the same foundations. This is a skill floor.

Melee has one of the highest skill ceilings of any fighting game. The mind games (movement, momentum, 2-dimensional spacing, etc) are very complex, and lead to the more tactically-skilled player winning.
>>
>>263847997
>By definition, all fighting game are party games
Only if you're just gonna make up definitions
>>
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I'll just leave this here
>>
>>263856667
This

There's also the fact that it doesn't play like a traditional fighter. The objective in fighters is to lower the opponents life/hp/energy to zero to win the round, usually you have to win 2/3 or 3/5 rounds to win a match

Smash Bros. has a percentage system that tracks how strong knock back becomes and the point is to send people into the blast zones either for points or to shave off a life. Stock is the closest the game gets to being a fighter (not including the hp mode, which feels weird on smash to me at least) and you don't need to win multiple rounds to win a match, you just need to be the last one standing

This post here, >>263856690
does a good job of explaining more ways they differ
>>
>>263857396
MK Wii alone sold 30 million.
>>
>basing sales on handheld version

Only consoles matter, and 4 will sell like shit.
>>
>>263856690
/thread
>>
>>263857582
If you actually have a disability I won't mock you for it.
What the fuck is a mid ball?
>>
>>263857752
But that's the post that has plenty of people in this thread saying "Nu uh".
>>
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>>263855053

>What are command grabs
>>
>>263855647
>>263855897

And F-Zero stage iirc isn't tournament legal in Melee. Is it even legal as a counterpick?
>>
>>263857739
What's the definition of a party game?
>>
>>263857752
>This post here, >>263856690 does a good job of explaining more ways they differ
it does a good job of showing how people talk about smash out of their ass
>>
>>263857752
The stock system in Smash is more similar to Injustice or KI3
>>
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>>263857448

>pig disgusting gif
>>
>>263857929
Game that has local multiplayer.
>>
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>mfw smash stole a day of our locals despite none of the smash players supporting or playing any games other than smash
>>
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>>263852561
>EVO
>ever dying in the first place.

Seriously? Do Nintenyearolds really believe this?
just because they didn't showcase your casual as fuck game doesn't mean it died.
This is why I'd rather see SkullGirls at EVO than these casual faggots.
>>
>>263857801
I was talking about Mortal Kombat, the fighter.
>>
>>263842721
If random hobos like fucking Mango can do well in Smash your freind surely can. The tech skill ISNT THAT HARD IN SMASH TO EXECUTE. The frentic pace you have to do it though is insane.
>>
>>263856690
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner!
>>
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>>263856690
>smash has no overheads, high, mids or lows, no blocking, counter hits, hit stun
This poster has never played a Smash game in his life and anyone who agrees with him are complete morons.
>>
>>263857448
>Smash pros
Oxymoron
>>
>>263857541
12 million is close to what Pokemon XY did, Smash 3ds won't be anywhere near that.
>>
>>263857931
It gets some things wrong and others right.
>>
>>263857564
boss rush, just like red earth
>>
>>263857394
Sports game.
>>
>>263857492
Because he was a Boss character in ST
>>
>>263850370
>video games take skill
Yeah it sure takes people years of training to push buttons.
>>
>>263858112
It has blocking and hit stun. Not the other three. And no, moving the shield downward or upward is not indicative of a high or low. You still block regardless.
>>
>>263840724
it IS a fighting game but only wen you strip out 70% of it's content.
>>
>>263842476
Bullshit. There's mid tier level players in melee who break their fingers everyday to even have a shot at becoming a high tier tourney threat. Melee is fucking hard.
>>
>>263858080
When I brought up MK8 did you think I was talking about Mortal Kombat? Lel.
>>
>>263858050
Not that inputs define a fighting game either way, but those are not impressive.
>>
>>263858112
Except hes right
>>
>>263857748
Oh no, wikipedia!
>>
who cares what it's classified as? just play whatever games you enjoy without having to worry about what fucking genre it is
>>
>>263858050
All of those inputs are incredibly easy and leniant other than wavedashing though. The only reasons smash has "hard" execution is because the controller is shit and they insist on playing sets 5x as long as any other game so people get hand fatigue.

If you hacked a vewlix setup onto a GC controller smash execution would be a joke.
>>
>>263841038
No, FGC make fun of Smashers because those autists have to make very specific rules and eliminate most of the game in order to make it "tournament worthy". If you have to modify your game so much to make it even a shitty fighting game it's not a fighting game.
>>
There is more than one type of fighter.

2D Fighter: Street Fighter, Guilty Gear

3D Fighter: Tekken, Soul Calibur

Platform Fighter: Smash, Jump Ultimate Stars, PS All-Stars.

Yes Smash is a fighting game. Whether or not a game is a competitive fighter is a matter or the game itself, but Melee has been a mainstage EVO event for the past two years if I'm not mistaken. Very likely Smash 4 will replace it.
>>
>>263858252
They also "nerfed" him in the HD remix, and he was still banned.
>>
Didn't know that party games had character tiers.
>>
>>263856690
>mah health bars
>mah rounds.

I'm not even defending smash, I'm just wondering why the fight genera has such BS constraints before its considered "fighting".

What makes an FPS an FPS. A strategy a strategy? When was High, Mid, Low part of the "definition"?
>>
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>>263858112

Blocking and hitstun. Something a lot of non-fighting games have.

Overhead strikes, high/mid/low and counter hit states are exclusive to fighting games.

Get dicked.
>>
>>263840724
Because it's not a Street Fighter clone.
>>
It's not a fighter, I don't even like fighters because they're not a friendly genre to get into
Smash is for everyone and I love it but a fighter it is not
>>
>>263858112
>Smash
>Overheads
I don't think you know what an overhead is
>>
>>263854551
This, this happened at final round this year. SSB were confinded to their own room. No one has nothing to say to them or really wanted them there.
>>
>>263858406
Okay anon, show me another place that defines what genre the game is. I'll wait.
>>
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>>263857448
>is every bit as complicated as a standard Weeb Button Masher vs Projectile Spam: Supreme Ultra IV Edition
>gif showing the opposite

Oh boy.
>>
>>263857876

dude it was a joke. point is, there's no characters in Melee that are as simple as hitting a single button or repeating a single move, just like in SF.

Sure you can beat total scrubs by just spamming, but that's equally true in Smash as it is with spamming qcf with a shoto
>>
>>263858298
It's still indicative of where the hurt box is, and given Smash's greater movement range it actually has more significance in evasion.
Also learning the ending lag on opponents attacks allows you to punish moves
>>
>>263843195
I suppose Virtua Fighter is not a fighting game according to you.
>>
>>263858469

Even despite posts detailing why it's not a fighter, I'm okay with this. "Platform Fighter" is good enough.
>>
>>263840724
Because it's a child's party game.
>>
>>263858508
>genre ***
>>
>>263858508
Why is LoL not a fighting game?
>>
>>263858469
This, oh this.
But I would change the name to Arena than Platform since it would include DBZ Budokai and Dissidia too.
>>
>>263849148
No, by proper definition they are fighting games and always will be. You're an idiot.
>>
>>263858342
Why the hell were you talking about Mario Kart in a fighting game discussion?
>>
Supreme Commander isn't an RTS because turtling is viable.
Blood Money isn't a stealth game because you don't hide in shadows.
CoD isn't an FPS because it's casual trash.

This is how stupid you sound.
>>
>>263853220
>implying a knife wouldn't be called a hammer if it's inventor wanted it to be.

I think you're too young and stupidto be posting on this board.
>>
>>263853912
Actually a few players like Chillindude and Unknown do in fact play other fighters.
>>
>>263858469
>Platform Fighter: Smash, Jump Ultimate Stars, PS All-Stars.
LOLOLOLOLOL
It will be at EVO because there's an ocean of manchildren who bring in money so why not have it
No one considers it a fighter though
>>
>>263858508

You might not be defending Smash being a fighter but you're just as ignorant.

Things like High-Mid-LoW aren't there for arbitrary reasons, they're aspects native to fighting games that we reference while discussing fighting games.
>>
>>263850662

You also have to remove the controls and replace them all with Street Fighter controls :^)

The fighting game community is unwilling to relearn anything at all so they can simply jump into every new game. So they stiffle any inovation, bad or good in tha bud. And this is comming from someone who doesnt consider Smash Brothers a fighting game either
>>
>>263858361
Then why are people claiming Smash's simplistic inputs as why it's partly not a real fighter
>>
>>263840724
That art is really bad
>>
>>263858361
>>263858446

nigger that's like 300 apm if you break it down. granted, only spacies play that fast, but you're offbase if you think that's below the average number of inputs or decision-making speed of most fighters
>>
>>263858740
No by proper definition they are not fighting games and never will be, deal with it, casual.
>>
>>263858452
Disabling items? You actually think that's a huge removal.
>>
>>263840724
smash is a mario party minigame
>>
>>263852448
BTW are there any good kicking fighters in SF
>>
>>263858862
>implying other games on EVO aren't played by manchildren either
>>
>>263858878
Because they're idiots who are missing the point.
>>
>>263858603
But as far as "High, Low, Mid" mechanics go, it's not the same. Knowing ending lag and punishing has nothing to do with the actual mechanic.
>>
>>263858978
No, by proper definition they are fighting games and always will be, deal with it, casual.
>>
>>263858452
items levels modifiers and characters basically. Whats left to remove?
>>
>>263859061
Chun li
>>
It never fails
smash manchildren getting assblasted over this
why cant you just enjoy your kids game in peace and stop trying so hard to fit into a genre you will never be a part of?
I dont like fighters at all but jeez fuck off with the whining
>>
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>all of the niggers adamantly refusing to define their terms because it would hurt their argument
>>
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>>263858680

every fighting game is a child's party game.
>>
>>263853585
>Are we hardcore yet?: the post
>>
>>263859158
Typical nintoddler can only parrot what other people say.

Not a fighting game by any definition, sorry
>>
>>263858050
>minigame
>>
>>263858452
It's not "removing most of the game" it's taking out the huge-ass elephant-in-the-room of RNG that is items, and taking out stages that would be instantly banned if they were included in any similar fashion in any other fighter.
>>
>>263858827

Sethlon plays mahvel iirc
>>
What happens when you ask /fgg/ if SSB is a fighting game?
>>
>>263850634
you just described SMB,except the stages an items
>>
>>263859002
Well when the devs give more importance to adding items than balancing the characters you can get an idea and don't come pretending removing items is the only rule Smashers do to make Smash tourney worthy.
>>
>>263859201
party game for sure
>>
I want someone to give an absolute definition of what a fighting game is.
>>
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>>263858565
>http://www.gonintendo.com/s/235144-super-smash-bros-sakurai-aiming-to-make-number-one-character-game-in-the-world
>>
>>263858056
Introduce them to the game you like. Fighting games are hard in general and a daunting task to learn. They are plenty of high level smash players who are also good at other fighters.
>>
>>263859423
They tell you to leave.
>>
>>263840724
>The object of the game is to knock the opponent out of the ring.

Sounds an awful lot like wrestling to me.
>>
>>263859171
The Smash series has been in the fighting genre since it first appeared. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>>263859508
Muh Street Fighter clones.
>>
>>263840724
Items
>>
>>263859540
>Introduce them to the game you like.
Pretty sure his point is that they won't play anything else.
>>
>>263859171
Don't pocket this autist with the whole fanbase, some of us just want a fun game in which we can waste our time playing with our favorite characters.
>>
>>263859508
It needs to be played at a tournament.
>>
>>263859519
>http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/37684/super-smash-bros-developer-discussion-live-blog
>With brawl the players could set up everything, with freedom. But we learned that some folks team up or play differently, making it difficult for all to enjoy. There is a reporting system. As far as technical connection issues, we're still working on it. They use async communication in Mario Kart and other games to improve this, but that doesn't work well for fighting games. So there is cascading failure, especially for four players. That is why they ask people to have the best communication system available (eg a LAN adapter)
>fighting games
>>
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More importantly, why cant the smash community accept that it's not a fighting game? They'll defend that shit until they die to autistic levels, and if usually boils down to "BUT ITS A FIGHTING GAME!"
Seriously, why the fuck should you vare what genre it is, isnt whats important is that you like it?
>>
>>263859519
>>263859201
BTFO
T
F
O
>>
>>263859475
>commonly designed as a collection of simple minigames
Well shit, since it doesn't fit the common design of it, it's not a party game. That's the exact argument against it being a fighter. There's a lack of consistency here. It not adhering to the traditional design either excludes it from the genre or it doesn't. Regardless, it's either a Fighting/Party game, or it's neither.
>>
>>263859632
The fighting game genre as it is known now has existed since 1991. You are incorrect.
>>
>>263859540
Only one of them plays other games but he rarely shows up. They had a venue but apparently it wasn't good enough so they needed to steal ours.

I used to play melee competitively back in 2006 but I don't think I could be interested enough to pick it back up, and now I basically have to or I'm just playing online that day.
>>
>>263859805
I don't think it's the community so much as people on /v/. Then again, I don't frequent Smashboards or anything, so I don't know. I don't hear much of this shit outside of /v/.
>>
>>263859446
And the 1v1 and the millions of different version and the characters.
>>
>>263859508
a game where different characters fight each other
I know you could say this about other genres but there isn't really a better way to explain it
>>
>>263859324
You're the one parroting. Yes, they are fighters by any proper founded definition of the genre. You know nothing.
>>
How is a game where the mechanics are based around fighting not a fighting game?
>>
>>263859924
whats wrong with 1v1,by your logic all the SMB games are the same,with the same characters
>>
>>263859805
It's just a special breed of retards, go to any smash thread and you will see the same discussing when this idiots come whining Melee is better and Smash 4 is shit even when they haven't even played it.
>>
>>263859815
its a simplistic minigame
>>
>>263859875
"it" referring to the series, not to the genre.
>>
>>263859805
Because they're kids who are tryhards

>>263859915
It isnt just /v/, they whined and cried to be accepted at major tournaments
>>
>>263860096
Collection of minigames was in the definition though. Smash isn't a collection of minigames.
>>
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There are characters depicted in the game and they hit each other to win, like a fight.
Fighting game.
>>
>>263860176
EVO's just huge, and stream monsters want their games there because it's huge.
>>
>>263860237
its one of the minigames
>>
More importantly, why cant /v/ accept that it's a fighting game? They'll deny that shit until they die to autistic levels, and if usually boils down to "BUT ITS A PARTY GAME!"
Seriously, why the fuck should you care what genre it is, isnt whats important is that you like it?
>>
>>263857949
KI has a double energy bar system (I've only played the SNES version, not sure if they changed it since) - you can compare that to stock in a way, except with stock you can keep taking damage; you don't die unless you get blown away.

In KI, you can't just keep taking hits. Eventually your health bar will hit zero if you do and your next 'stock' loads. Keep taking more damage and that eventually goes away too.

That difference alone means a lot - you could just keep jabbing and win a match with a health bar, but you still need to launch the enemy to win in smash.

I haven't played Injustice yet, it's at least better than Mk Vs. DC Universe, no? I do want to try it out at least.

>>263857931
I feel some points are goods and other's aren't. Saying the stages are designed different isn't a good point when tourneys usually play out on an all flat surface like a fighter.

The movement thing is good, so I'll try to explain it better.

In a 2D fighter, your position is always dependent on your opponent - you always face them in a sense. The opponent jumps over you and your character turns to face them automatically

3D Fighters - Most of these follow 2D mechanics. Some, like SC and Tekken allow for a person to place themselves on the sides or behind their opponents. However, most of the time the character will snap back to the opponent if they aren't lined up.

In SC, if there's someone behind you and you press the direction opposite where they stand, you turn around to face them. Most characters will turn around as well if you press the towards the direction where the opponent stands unless you're doing an attack at the same time (a back kick for example)

With Smash, your position isn't dependent on any of the other fighters - your character is completely independent. Your character doesn't track opponents like in SF and there is no directional-snap like in 3D fighters
>>
>>263860176
>whined and cried

funny way to describe fundraising for cancer research
>>
>>263860247
Like Dark Souls amirite?
>>
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>>263860372
>>
>>263858594
>command grabs
>just standing an hitting a single button
>>
>>263840724
ITT: I made you respond!! LOL
>>
serious question.
what would happen if a developer makes a SFII clone with smash inputs?

do you think it would sell?
>>
>>263857448
>>263858050

This is considered a low level bread and butter combo beginners should be able to perform
>>
>>263860396
damn, going this in depth into something nobody but you actually cares about...

i actually feel bad
>>
>>263860395
>Being so assblasted he parrots what the other guy said even though he's not anti smash in any way
This is why you're a bunch of whiny manchildren, the party game genre suits you
>>
>>263860648
it would sell in a collection of simple minigames, imagine street fighter party
>>
They're not comparable, smash skills don't transfer and fighting game skills don't transfer
>>
>>263840925

But playing with no items and stocks is fun
>>
>muh tournaments
Company of Heroes, Homeworld, Supreme Commander, etc. aren't RTS game because they aren't balanced for tournaments.
>>
I guess it doesn't seem like that big of an issue as to whether or not it's classified as a fighting game.

I like it in comparison to other fighters because of the difference in mechanics; the platforming aspect alone allows for a lot of variance in the way people play, and the fact that the combo system gives you chances to escape (if your DI is on point) really keeps things interesting as opposed to a typical fighter (in both BlazBlue and MvC3, I see a lot of people using the same BnBs, and I even catch myself doing the same stuff over and over again because of optimization).
Melee was really nice because there could actually be legitimate 0-deaths, but they could still be escaped with proper DI, but Brawl was also interesting because it was more "reset" based in that there were few true combos, but frame traps and the like provided for a different approach altogether.
>>
>>263840724
it requires more skill so people need to make fun of it because they aren't as good compared to their shit tier fighters
>>
>>263860771
lmao
>>
>>263860672
I'm not disagreeing with your assertion, but there are quite a few unnecessary inputs in there.
>>
>>263860672
>bread and butter
>two FADCs
Nope.
>>
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>>263860372
>>
>>263858687
I've seen people through fits over MOBAs being consider the same things as strategies.

I see what you are saying though, but there are shit load of differences.

but that brings a better example, when do Mobas stop being "strategies" in everyone opinions?

>>263858863
Thats what this seems like to me, Smash is to Fighting, what LoL is to Strategies.
>>
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i remember back in highschool, playing smash 64 with friends, there was this kid who always wanted to turn off items.

That fucking faggot. No one liked to play like that, it was boring as fuck.
>>
>>263860648
It's been done, it's called Melty Blood
>>
>>263860648
Do you think smash sells because it's good or because it's nintendo characters partying?
mario strikers
mario tennis
etc
plaster nintendo characers on something and it sells
Look at SC2 with link
>>
>>263850370
if fighting games take skill then how come people like DSP can claim to be professionals?
>>
Fighting game shitheads are probably the most scammed gaming demographic next to Madden fans.
>>
>>263860648
It was called SNK vs Capcom 2 EO
>>
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>>263860864
>fighting game skills dont transfer

dont judge something based on your own inadequacy and limitations, my skills move gracefully over to smash...maybe you arent good?
>>
>>263859805
>More importantly, why cant the smash community accept that it's not a fighting game?
Why accept blatant lies like that? What would be the point?
Smash games are already defined as fighters, and rightfully so. Not everyone has a narrow mind and forms uneducated beliefs like you.
>>
Don't you know, OP? If it's not exactly like Street Fighter, it's not a fighting game. Everyone knows fighting games must be exactly like Street Fighter.
>>
>>263860864
Halo skills don't transfer to Quake. Halo isn't an FPS.
>>
>>263860773
It was a demonstration, anon. The other guy wasn't making a point at all. His attempt at making the other side seem autistically devoted to fitting the game into a little box can be done with just as much effort and effectiveness from the opposite end.

Your ad hominem makes you seem pretty assblasted yourself though. Watch that, nigga