What the fuck is the hotel and why wouldn't an Earth with

>>87735651
All in Kevins head, there is no other world

>>87735651
>and why wouldn't an Earth with only 150 million people not be a violent hellscape filled with rape and murder?
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>87735651
>hotel
First season, Purgatory. Last season, fever dream.

>the other world
Obviously a story Nora made up, as there's no way her husband and two kids would stay in the SAME FUCKING HOUSE following a massive calamity, instead of you know. Finding more secure environs.

Suburbia will be the first thing to crumble to dust when the lights go out.

>>87735717
Do you realize how many services on the planet would cease to exist when you only have 2% of the population?

>>87735683
But what about Nora?

>>87735797
Yeah but how did she return, if we assume that too isn't a dream?
She was put in that things with radioactive liquid. You can't survive that.

>>87735821
Do you realize how many services on the planet are entirely provided by far less than 1% of the global population?

>>87735875
Why am I even trying to explain this to you? You're retarded.

>>87735849
She lied, it was so obvious
You hear her shout something right before the machine kills her. Then she talks about an alternate world where 98% of the population disappeared yet everything still runs exactly as normal except there are a few empty houses.

>>87735821
Oh you're talking about the show as a whole, not Season2.

>>87735898
Could it be that an external force that caused the Sudden Departure is looking over the 2% Earth?

>>87735902
Yes, I'm talking about what Nora was saying to Kevin at the end.

>>87735884
Clearly it is you who are retarded my good child

>>87735867
She didn't go because one of the themes of the show is Nora and technology failing her. It is the last fuck-you from the universe: the machine fails, preventing her from seeing her family one last time.

>>87735898
Again, that was a tank filled with radioactive liquid. She would die.

>>87735952
A tank they told her was filled with radioactive liquid, I'm not convinced they bought there own shit. They were just conning emotionally vulnerable people, like Wayne only he actually believed

>>87735947
Alright, explain to me why a planet with only 2% of the population would run perfectly fine? Nora specifically mentions it took her a long time to even make it to NYC because there weren't a lot of pilots or fuel.

>>87735948
For the third time, radioactive liquid. If they didn't mention that you'd have a point.
Although compared to the rest of the show ending was highly illogical and disappointing. Scientist who built a machine, was he really too arsed to build another one and tell the people what happened?

>>87735979
>conning
They refused her the first time before she found out where the device was though. Why would they not immediately take her $20,000?

>>87736002
>explain to me this misrepresentation of your argument
No thanks retard

>>87735952
Heavy water is not that dangerous

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water#Toxicity_in_humans

>>87736038
She said it herself, a sales techniuque. If somebody chases you down after you refuse them then they are less likely to have a change of heart at the last minute

>>87736049
>misrepresentation
>"Do you realize how many services on the planet are entirely provided by far less than 1% of the global population?"

kek, you're fucked.

>>87735979
Even if we ignore that we quite literally see the tank filled up.
She would at the very least drown. Not to mention that those people didn't really look or act like swindlers.

>>87736074
That's not a very good sales technique when she was ready and willing to give the money at that very moment.

If it was a lie what happened to her, did she die?

>>87736075
Oh, alright. Just point out where I said that everything would be "perfectly fine" and we'll be on the same page.

Retard.

>>87736062
I'm forgetting details here, but did they say it's heavy water? Heavy water isn't radioactive.

>>87736087
>Even if we ignore that we quite literally see the tank filled up.
Yeah filled with random liquid, doesn't have to be radioactive just because they say it

>Not to mention that those people didn't really look or act like swindlers.
That's what makes a good swindler

>>87736002
how many of those services do you think are for the 98% of the population that are now missing?

>>87735875
Global supply chains are the only reason a handful of humans can produce a rocket ship.

Those are all disrupted and supply itself is gravely reduced. You just can't do shit with a handful of humans scattered to the corners of the world. Not even with all the toys lying around.

>>87736178
Yes, they say it's heavy water. They mentioned deuterium.

>>87736180
She would've still drowned m8.

>>87736283
But she stopped it before it filled up we literally see that in the show

>>87736192
A fucking lot.

>>87736257
Okay but they still say it's radioactive, and heavy water isn't radioactive, so I suppose it's heavy water mixed with radioactive matter.

>>87736319
Could she stop it?

>>87736163
What the fuck are you even trying to say?

>>87736348
yes

>>87736418
She shouted "STOP" and then she didn't die so yeah she stopped it

>>87736375
Heavy water is minorly radioactive, like most water.

Really though, the people in the writing room don't care about details. Much of the public believes heavy water is highly radioactive. Most of the public things getting bombarded with radiation also makes you radioactive.

The public is purposefully misinformed on radiation, otherwise renewable energy wouldn't stand a chance in the face of proven energy techs.

>>87736430
That you are a retard

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>>87736593
>You're a retard
>Oh, mind explaining why?
>ugh, what's the point?

>>87736593
It really doesn't take a genius to understand that you won't have all the goodies and nicknacks you would have with a population of 7.5 billion people.

>>87736462
I'm pretty sure she just let out some grunt or something. And don't they say before she enters that once she's in that's it, they can't get her out?
>>87736518
I know but all this talk seems to me like you (if you are same poster) are trying to create a "better" ending. I agree that would be a better ending. But ending I saw was pretty unambiguous, she went somewhere and came back.

one thing that came into my head is that

if the scientist who originally went to the alternative place where it was only 2% of the population and figured out what happened and then apparently could actually make a machine where they could go back

why wouldnt he go back and tell the world?? bring back those 2% (who ever was still alive) and use that 2nd world for what ever? not trying to pick apart the claim nora put forward but if the scientist who traveled through on a crazy idea did it, wouldnt be want to 100% prove it and become known as the greatest scientist of his century?

imagine what we could do with a planet with only 2% of the population who could probably be moved away from it

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>>87736224

The fake NASA space program? Nobody has sent anything into space for real.

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>>87735651
>>87735821
Nora was lying. There's no twin Earth with 150 million people. She made that up so it would be easier for both her and Kevin to start over again.

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>>87736724

>>87736842
This. It's so painfully obvious but still every Leftovers thread devolves into this same argument between brainlets and people who actually watched the show

>>87736842
Do you think that device gave her cancer or something? She looks pretty bad at the end.

>>87736037
The liquid itself isn't radioactive. It's blasted with radiation after it fills up.

>>87736882
You can't into this show if you're a real autist

>>87736882
But WHY is it so painfully obvious? It's a little weird that her story of waking up naked and finding clothes in the first place she saw was pretty similar to the experience Kevin had.

I guess she could have read Matt's book.

>>87735898
>yet everything still runs exactly as normal
Except she said the complete opposite.

>>87736947
Taking the story from Matt's book would have the best chance of Kevin believing her

>>87736979
She said her family were living in the same house, there were abandoned houses everywhere but streetlights were still functioning.
I guess some of the 2% decided to keep the power running in random towns across america, rather than relocating everyone to one location.
Her story makes 0 sense because it's not true

>>87736993
A part that bothers me though is the fact that Kevin Sr talked about being in a room with a fire on the bed which was exactly what was happening when Kevin Jr was talking to him through the TV his first time at the hotel.

>>87737034
Playing Devil's advocate here, but the Sudden Departure doesn't make any fucking sense either, but we know that happened. Is it so far fetched that it's the actual rapture and God is looking over his 2%?

>>87736882
Maybe we aren't brainlets m8, maybe we just rely on what the show clearly shows instead of inventing stuff.
Show I saw was pretty clear about what happened. I agree that would be a better ending and explanation, but it doesn't add up. For start, those people really didn't look like swindlers, and even if liquid wasn't radioactive, she would've drowned anyway.
>>87736712
Same. It's pretty dumb.

>>87737109
Or alternatively, if they wanted that kind of ending, they should've made it more ambiguous.

>>87737077
The Kevin Sr part in the hotel is the only part of the show I don't get. In every other Hotel/Purgatory scene Kevin never gets any information that he doesn't already know. Like in the President/Assassin episode he needs to get info on the song and the childrens shoes but he gets neither of them.

And the departure not making sense is the point of the show

>>87737109
>maybe we just rely on what the show clearly shows instead of inventing stuff.
The show shows Nora shouting something that looks a lot like 'STOP' before the water reaches her head. Then she tells a story to Kevin filled with inconsistencies.
But you think it makes more sense for her to have visited a magical alternate dimension where the departed are living happily with no changes to their lifestyle despite 98% of the world vanishing.
Your opinion is based on the swindlers not looking like swindlers - which is literally the definition of a good swindler. And that she should have drowned even though the liquid never goes over her head because she shouts STOP

>>87737253
>And the departure not making sense is the point of the show
The point I'm making is that her story really doesn't have to make sense.

What's kinda weird in this show is "omg society is collapsing" trope. Sure, SD is weird as fuck, but it's not the only mystery ever. I don't see people going apeshit because of quantum mechanics, even though they're literally as "magic" as SD.

>>87737344
Society isn't collapsing in the 98% world, things are just philosophically fucked. I'm saying it's hard to imagine a world with 150 functioning properly without literal divine intervention.

>>87737253
I already told you it doesn't make sense and that it's kind of a bad ending, but you're literally constructing stuff to fit your view. We don't see her shout "STOP" and even if we did they wouldn't be able to stop, they literally say that IIRC. Furthermore if they are these swindlers who murder people, why would they stop, and get exposed by her?

>>87737410
150 million people*

>>87737313
Adding more magic events lessens the role of the departure in the show though. IMO the entire point is that there was one single unexplainable event that messes people up for longer than is necessary.
The very first scene of episode 1 has a voiceover about how 2% isn't a huge number compared to some diseases in the past, if all those people had died because of some disease, people would have mourned for a little while and gotten over it. But the fact that it is unexplainable drives the world mad

>>87737467
>magic
Nobody is talking about magic.

>>87737426
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW0Eze6fnkQ
Look at about 1:35
She is clearly saying something starting with 'S' what could it have been other than Stop?

>>87737526
>She is clearly saying something starting with 'S' what could it have been other than Stop?
Any other word that begins with an S. Why does it have to be stop?

>>87737253
>The Kevin Sr part in the hotel is the only part of the show I don't get. In every other Hotel/Purgatory scene Kevin never gets any information that he doesn't already know
THANK YOU MY MAN. This is the thing everyone seems to miss.

Furthermore he meets a man who alternatively calls himself Charon and God, who he has never met before and who is the only known human besides Kevin to be reported dying and being "raised" from the dead. He also has knowledge that makes him a mysterious figure.

After this man dies again, Kevin, again, hears him in the earpiece. But this man seems to be less than omnipotent.

>>87737617
>But this man seems to be less than omnipotent.
He drank the water like a dummy.

>>87737467
Exactly, yet why would it drive the world mad?
Historically speaking humans faced even greater mysteries and it didn't drive them mad and lead them to nihilism. Sure, you could say that it's a modern world and that such an event is massive because of our supposed depth of knowledge and how we think we understand how universe works because of scientific progress, but that's not really true, as I said, no one is going apeshit over quantum mechanics or many other unexplainable phenomena. Cults are a good point, but I don't see mainstream religion declining, quite the opposite.

>>87737637
I was under the impression that he, Kevin, Christopher Sunday and perhaps Patty are the only people who do not drink water.

Patty is a toss-up because her script in the Purgatory scenes is so wacky. I can't tell if she's fucking with Kevin but it always seems like she is.

>>87737526
No she doesn't, or at least I don't hear it. And explain the second point, why would swindlers stop? It's clear she can't get out on her own.

>>87737655
>Exactly, yet why would it drive the world mad?
...because it was a sudden and unexplainable event? This isn't really all that comparable to quantum mechanics since we have yet to see quantum mechanics having real world implications on a macro level.

>>87737655
Religion is definitely declining, not so much in numbers but in beliefs for sure. Most people are becoming more moderate in their beliefs -
less creationism etc. The more we learn about the world, the less needs to be explained by religion.
That's why religions main role now is explaining where the universe came from, and what happens after we die, it's all that's left

>>87737704
They never really explain the water drinking stuff to my knowledge, and paranoia about water and chemicals in it is pretty classic crazy talk.

I'm still fucked over the Kevin Sr bed fire bullshit.

>>87737655
A lot of the population experienced it on a personal level. They were there when people Departed.

It's not like "what is life?" or "what is beauty?" like a philosophical conundrum that has vexed man for ages. It was literally crazy shit that defies all logic.

Is it possible that Kevin really was Jesus and otherworld was hell? And that he went there to bring salvation to the trapped souls?

>>87737871
Yeah sure, why not? Maybe not Hell, but it's possible that Kevin could be the next prophet for Christianity in a world of declining faith. Could be God was tired of all the euphoric atheists.

>>87737759
I get your point, but as I said humans historically faced even greater mysteries, and they didn't go into nihilism, rather they tried to make sense of it the best they knew.
SD wouldn't be any different IMO.
>>87737786
True but I'm talking about show. In show "mainstream religions decline", yet that doesn't make any sense, because SD would be a big "fuck you" to science and give a lot of ammo to mainstream and powerful religions and clergy to exploit.

>>87737934
>I get your point, but as I said humans historically faced even greater mysteries
I'm going to have to 100% disagree with that statement.

>>87737852
Thing is, historically you had a lot of shit that was crazy and defied logic for contemporary man. Yet man didn't go into nihilism, but kept on and tried to make sense of it.

>>87737934
Do mainstream religions decline? I don't remember that being said at all apart from matt's church having next to nobody.
But we also see new religions and cults popping up all over the world.

I would also disagree that the SD isn't the greatest mystery of all. The only thing I could think of that's even comparable would maybe be an eclipse in ancient time, but even then the Sun always comes back. If all the departed came back then people would remember it as 'that strange thing that happened once'. It's the lack of closure that is the issue

>>87737968
Various plagues and natural phenomena were at least as intimidating to contemporary man as the events of this show. Perhaps even more so.

>>87737999
Please name one thing even approaching the Departure in it's scope and magnitude

A thing that has shattered man's reality on such a fundamental level.

>>87738077
People dying is pedestrian.

People poofing into nonexistence and there being no good rational explanation why, how, what the criteria was, etc. is not the same thing as not understanding disease. Man has ALWAYS understood death.

>>87738077
I already mentioned that they directly compared the SD to diseases/plagues in the show. The difference is after a plague, you can see the bodies on the ground and know what happened to them.

>>87738079
>>87738113
>>87738123
I don't know. Comets, lightning, volcanoes, gas explosions, earthquakes, eclipse, you name it. Unexplainable phenomena always existed.
Was your first thought when you watched "omg life makes no sense now (for them)", or you were interested to know what happened? Exactly. Mystery doesn't make life meaningless.

>>87738354
Our reaction to seeing it happen in a show isn't the same as it happening for real though. You wouldn't stand watching Godzilla tear down a city in awe if it was happening right in front of you, it's no different for The Leftovers.

>>87738354
None of those things is unexplainable. They WERE unexplainable pre-internet when man's world was as large as the town he was born into. Nature is might impressive but all those things happen within nature.

The Departure may have been a natural event, or it may have been contrived by some other power. No one knows but it happened with unassailable certainty and there is no concensus on why it happened. The world doesn't grind to a halt, it gets on. But people are still fucking baffled and the effects are felt as long as 7 years after the Departure.

By Nora's time it seems shit is pretty much back to normal. The adults who experience the Departure are dying off. The kids have their own families who have no knowledge of this supernatural event.

Like, even if Jesus really existed, and you knew him and saw him perform a miracle, the rest of the world largely would not give a shit in 10 years.

>>87737738
Why wouldn't they stop? They already have her money and Matt is in the control room with them, so he can hear what she's saying. They have nothing to gain by not stopping.

>>87736708
>don't they say before she enters that once she's in that's it, they can't get her out?
They never said that. What they did say is that they would be able to hear her once she's inside the chamber, which is clearly a setup to allow her to bail at the last minute.

>>87739231
>which is clearly a setup to allow her to bail at the last minute.
That's not clear at all. If anything it's so if anything goes wrong they can talk with the person inside.

I watched the first episode of this series and I thought it was trash, and it clearly was written by someone with very little insight into human nature.

>>87739303
Allowing her to communicate from within the chamber makes the most sense in the logic of the episode as a way to introduce ambiguity about whether she actually went or not. That's why we hear her shout "S-" right before it cuts to the future. Later, when Nora tells Kevin about the machine, the same shot cuts right before she starts to shout, because she is telling the story without any ambiguity.

>>87739518
Yeah dude, I watched the first 3 minutes of Das Boot and could already tell the entire movie is shit too.

>>87739653
shut the fuck up you stupid asshole

>>87741133
Nice double dubs but you're still an idiot.