is the massive misreading of this film by the movie critic establishment

>>87630100

Probably.

If they're not smart enough to understand what the movie is you'd think they could at least appreciate it as a BGF popcorn flick (see also: Independence Day).

people who are paid to have opinions usually have bad ones

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>>87630100

In terms of quotability, this movie is pretty high up there.

Not as high as Aliens, but pretty high.

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Why would a bug that thinks be offensive?

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>>87630838

most critics recognized it was anti-war/anti-fascist satire. Only stupid 70 IQ /pol/beards think it's "redpilled"

>>87630100
what's the massive misreading?

>>87630954
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/starship-troopers-1997


>The action sequences are heavily laden with special effects, but curiously joyless. We get the idea right away: Bugs will jump up, troopers will fire countless rounds at them, the Bugs will impale troopers with their spiny giant legs, and finally dissolve in a spray of goo. Later there are refinements, like firebreathing beetles, flying insects, and giant Bugs that erupt from the earth. All very elaborate, but the Bugs are not interesting in the way, say, that the villains in the "Alien" pictures were. Even their planets are boring; Bugs live on ugly rock worlds with no other living species, raising the question of what they eat.

take your pick

>>87630100
>solid proof most critics are fucking retards
no proof needed
it's self evident

>>87630100
>critics hate it because they thought it was just a dumb movie and the message and references behind it went straight over their heads
>book fans hate it because it destroyed anything good about the book

Truly a patrician piece of cinema, Verhoeven was ahead of his time.

One of the worst misreadings in my opinion was the critics' response to A Scanner Darkly. It felt like some of them were too stupid to follow the plot of the movie.

>>87631287
He just didn't care for the action. I can understand where Ebert's coming from, the bugs are some of the most basic antagonists in the history of fiction. I don't think Ebert ever cared that much for pure action so this kind of movie would always be a hard sell for him. If I remember right he liked Robocop, which while not quite as strong on the action front is probably a superior movie overall.

>>87631403
>the message
which was?
>references
to?

This movie is good but loved and hated in all of the wrong ways.

>>87631694
the most retarded post in this thread

>>87631904
I bet John Wick is one of your favourite movies.

>>87632053
No? Why would a modern movie be one of my favorite ones?

>>87632105
Because you have shit fedoracore taste in movies.

>>87632149
epic, simply epic

>>87632185
Starship Troopers is a giant 100 million dollar meme with fun retarded action and nothing else going for it.
>but the uniforms looked like SS stuff
deep

>>87632272
I like this bait

>>87632667
Unironically what is there to enjoy about Starship Troopers aside from the memetastic stuff like future-football, retarded nonsensical training programs and giant bug-fights?

>>87632738
everything, it is infinitely re-watchable

>>87633081
I've seen it 10+ times, but for the future-football, retarded nonsensical training programs and giant bug-fights. This thread's OP seems to suggest that I'm missing something.

>>87633247
it's kino

you just don't get it

>>87630945
>film is anti-fascist

>Shows a society that is heavily diverse, socially equal, and near perfect in every way. The citizens are shown to be happy, they understand why their government is the way it is. The soldiers are volunteers who are willing to place their lives on the line for the good of everyone. The society in the film is about as close to ideal as humans could get.
I get what Vaerhoven was going for, but it's hard for me to take an anti-nationalist film seriously when it portrays a civic-nationalist world as basically a utopia.

>>87630945
>most critics recognized it was anti-war/anti-fascist satire
false

Interesting stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ajyGCh0rs

>>87632272
>fun retarded action and nothing else

...and?

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>>87633259
>if you understood it you would understand it

>>87633314
I think it was more antiwar as you are supposed to see rico slowly become apart of the war machine and be kinda disgusted when thwy say its afraid knowing hes become trapped within the system.

>>87633383
I've never understood Denise Richards's reputation as a bad actress. She's just fine. And I'd rank her at her peak as one of the most beautiful women to ever appear in cinema.

>>87633314
the utopia part isn't because of the nationalism, it's because of the civics, or the liberalism. the nationalism is openly mocked.

or do you think civic nationalism and fascism are identical?

>>87633451
Ask OP

>>87633539
Well, many people on the left (Vaerhoven included) would probably consider the Civic Nationalism shown in the film to indeed be a kind of Fascism, even if any one center or center right knows better.

Being a Civic Nationalist myself, I don't at all consider it to be Fascism, but try explaining the difference to a normie and see how far you get.

My argument is that Vaerhoven made a mistake by keeping the Civic Nationalism from the Starship troopers book as the society in his film, he should have made them a more blatantly fascist and neo-nazi type society if his goal was to make an anti-fascist/anti-nationalist film. The movie constantly says, "look how bad/silly/etc nationalism is," but rarely does it ever present the character's society as something negative.

>>87630100
I was there (fuck I'm old) when this came out. 9/10 people just did not get it. The loss of humanity, the loss of individualism. The jingoism, the blatant propaganda, the false flag attack, the parallels between the bugs and modern society. It all went right over people's heads. And considering you have neo-fascists praising the film to this day it's not that surprising.

actually they read it completely right as satire

However because it played the satire completely straight they felt they had to pretend it "wasn't" satire in order to discourage the dumb masses from thinking fascism was good

>>87633890
>And considering you have neo-fascists praising the film to this day And considering you have neo-fascists praising the film to this day

That's because it is great fascist propaganda

That's why it works so well as a movie. It's played completely straight. There is no scene where some snarky liberal has to come on screen and carefully explain to you that you are watching satire and then go on to tell you what you "ought" to think.

In the modern world if some centrist neoliberal isn't telling you what to think you might have the chance to mentally stray off the reservation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCVBEE1SfXI

>>87632738
Alright since you might actually be retarded ill explain.

Basically the film is a razor thin satire of fascism and propaganda. The characters are purposely cardboard cut outs to emphasize this. The way everyone looks like a teenager from some shitty WB show, the triumphant ending where they state that the bugs are afraid are all aspects of the satire. The horrible mutilation all the adults suffer from in the film reinforce the idea of a nation of endless war. The very justification of the war is rediculous nonsense to justify the humans aggression. All of this is played pretty straight but apparently to straight for most people like you (retards) to pick up on. The films slips up in a few places but it's unwavering dedication to this central concept is what elevates it. Where lesser films would have winked and nodded at the audience, star ship troopers place it deliciously straight. It subverts propaganda films as well as satire itself by walking the line between it.

And in the end all the most superficial and evil characters survive and are consumed by the state in a perpetual state of war. The tone is unlike anything else which makes it a unique kino, unappreciated by Mongoloid critics and retards like you. You have to imagine yourself living in an approximation of that society going to the theater and watching a movie like this, of course the society looks perfect because it's a propaganda film from that perspective. I don't understand how people can love robocop and hate this movie when it's that same idea and tone turned up to 11.

>>87633691
>rarely does it ever present the character's society as something negative.

It does portray it as bad, you're just too retarded to get it. Civic nationalists are generally too low IQ to understand why inhibiting individual freedom is a bad idea.

>>87634124
>I don't understand how people can love robocop and hate this movie when it's that same idea and tone turned up to 11
Eventually Robocop turned on his corporate overlord. The irony of the old man CEO giving Robocop the kill order again, goes over people's heads. Starship Troopers doesn't even do that. The same people who whipped Rico's ass are portrayed as the good guys all the way through.

https://youtu.be/faFuaYA-daw

I don't get how any one can watch this without laughing your balls off, especially at the part where the teacher laughs like an insane person. The film drops little hints here and there like when the reporter says maybe we provoked the bugs and the "protagonist" comes up to the camera and immediately puts the point aside by saying we should kill them all while theatrically putting his hat on. It's supposed to be done in the moment but it's so obviously staged that it becomes comedic. To the plebian it comes off as cheesy or bad acting but if you understand the tone the movie is going for it elevates it to a wonderful exercise in deliberate artificiality.

>>87633942
Do you have a single fact to back that up?

>>87634315
>The same people who whipped Rico's ass are portrayed as the good guys all the way through.

He did get someone under his command killed

>>87633482
If you've seen it 10+ times and are still arguing this point you should kill yourself, you obviously love the film and think it's Kino but can't bring yourself to own your taste because you are insecure and must adopt others' opinions.

>>87634129
I'm searching for arguments in this post, but I see none.

>>87634448
You'll have to read the screeds the reviewers wrote in the 90s

Contrary to popular belief many acknowledged that the movie was satire, but ultimately said the movie was bad, not because it lacked artistic merit, but because the satirical message could be "dangerous".

>>87634466
And?
The authorities recognized Rico was good material and bent the rules to keep him in.

>>87633314
War makes for fascism was the point. They go through the ringer and come out fascists.

>>87634064
Yes, the film is so great because it is almost totally unique among films. I can't think of another one that walks the line as readily as this one. They drop little tid bits here and there but you would only get it if you were half way intelligent. If they were in your face at all it would have ruined the entire thing.

>>87634124
Verhoeven uses some fascist imagery like the SS uniforms and the design of their parliament thing being very reichstag-like but I don't think that any of the examples you're bringing up are coherent enough to constitute satire. Starship Troopers is a deliberately dumb action movie where the heroes dress up kind of like Nazis and fight a retarded war because they feel like it.

Robocop was much more straightforward and seemed to be working towards one point from start to finish. A good man in a hopelessly corrupt society buys it trying to do the right thing. These corrupt people aren't done with him though, they try and take what's left of him and make him into a tool to further their own ends. However, Murphy's humanity prevails over evil science and programming allowing him to be reborn as his own avenging angel, purging Detroit of evil with the help of the other good people. Very simple pro-Christian, pro-individual, anti-capitalist/materialist/greed story. What the fuck am I supposed to take away from watching Starship Troopers?

>>87634523
Post 3 or more reviews that state this and I'll stand corrected, other wise shut the fuck uo

>there are people that think this is satire

>>87634518
I honestly don't know how dumb you would have to be to see the Starship trooper world and think Verhoven wasn't purposefully portraying some sort of future dystopian society.

Did you not notice the obvious government propaganda? Aggressively stupid militarism? The fact that most the characters with good intentions died horribly? The fact that you didn't even have political representation unless you went through government brainwashing?

>Rico is from Argentina
>clearly white
That's how I knew Buenos Aires was an inside job. Rico was probably just some clone implanted with fake memories

All I want is a live action Starship Troopers movie with the same budget of the original.

All I get is direct to DVD Sci-Fi channel quality snoozefests that desperately try and ride the coattails of the original film to success.

>>87634620
I'd recommend just reading this article

https://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/26/starship-troopers-fascism/

Not that you will "get it" anyway

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>>87634638
jesus christ how are people so fucking thick

seriously watch the propaganda little inserts they have

my fucking 12 year old cousin understand this shit

The film failed as a satire piece and only made the war machine look fucking awesome.

>>87634729
those are clearly propaganda for the population. of course they are over the top. But they don't mean the entire movie is satire.

>>87634585
>Starship Troopers is a deliberately dumb action movie where the heroes dress up kind of like Nazis and fight a retarded war because they feel like it.

Did you just not read my post at all? This is exactly the point.
>why is it good?
Read the fucking post
>Where lesser films would have winked and nodded at the audience, star ship troopers place it deliciously straight. It subverts propaganda films as well as satire itself by walking the line between it.

If you can't appreciate a film that does something almost completely unique in all of film making I'm sorry for you.

>>87630838
This always bugged me. The enemy is a bug. It has no hands.

>>87634656
not him but there's no actual evidence, the corniness is simply because it's a b film

>>87634585
>Verhoeven uses some fascist imagery like the SS uniforms and the design of their parliament thing being very reichstag-like but I don't think that any of the examples you're bringing up are coherent enough to constitute satire. Starship Troopers is a deliberately dumb action movie where the heroes dress up kind of like Nazis and fight a retarded war because they feel like it.
The bug society, the fat thinking bug supported by the lower caste bugs and protected bt the warrior bugs is a direct commentary on modern society and no one got it. look at the badges, specifically the badge for the MI, it loojs like a bug. Threre are other examples.

>>87634575
>but you would only get it if you were half way intelligent

I guess that's the real problem

>>87634638
There are also thick fucks who miss the point entirely and then brag about that fact on the internet

>>87634656
Not him, but I think you're pretty dumb too.

>>87634840
>miss the point that wasn't there

>>87634665
>same budget of the original
anon look up how much this movie cost to make and how much it made

>>87634776
I read your post and it's as unhelpful and badly written now as it was 10 minutes ago.
>central concept
Explain what you think is the central concept of Starship Troopers. I know that you wrote 'satire of fascism and propaganda' but what the hell does that mean to you and why does it make the movie worth watching.

>>87634806
> the fat thinking bug supported by the lower caste bugs and protected bt the warrior bugs is a direct commentary on modern society and no one got it
Unless you can show me Paul Verhoeven saying this I don't buy it. And even if he did I don't see what the hell difference that would make to anything.

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>>87634744

>The film failed as a satire piece and only made the war machine look fucking awesome.

Pretty much

> Look how awful the military industrial complex is
> Look at this rich kid who has no drive and doesn't know what to do with his life
> Watch as he finds his purpose in the mobile infantry
> See as he builds bonds with his fellow troopers that will last forever
> Gaze as he goes from trust fund twat suckling on the teat of his parent's wealth to a self made soldier who has made it his personal responsibility to safeguard his planet from an alien menace while finding personal satisfaction
> Be jealous as he gets to fuck Denise Richards AND Dina Meyer holy shit

>>87634744
This.

Whatever the directors intentions, he still eneded up making something that appeals to a larger audience. Maybe he was forced to make it more of a standard action flick by the production company, but either way, the satire doesn't really get in the way of the action or establishing protagonists the audience likes. But then again, some of these directors like to make things that right leaning people enjoy, even if they secretly see it themselves as right wing satire.

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>>87634798
>it's a b film

You don't know what a b film is

Starship troopers had a $100 million dollar with some amazing cgi and practical effects especially for its day.

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>>87634764
>But they don't mean the entire movie is satire.

Anon...

>>87634665
ST: Invasion was great. Not as good as the original, but miles better than 2 or 3.
I just watched Traitor of Mars and holly fuck. The graphics and animation are improved in most cases, but in some scenes it's so bad that I've no idea how they fucked it up. Like pretty much any scene where the geeky officer is panicking look like GMOD parodies. Or there are a few scenes where the characters look like they are walking before a greenscreen. But overall they did improve on the CGI. The thing that bugged me the most in Invasion was how the bugs in close ups had these really realistic skin textures and it looked out of place.
The story, plot, dialogue and characters were shit though, totally anime tier. Although it gives more credibility to the "Buenos Aires was an inside job" theories.

>>87634955

Starship Troopers was the movie you bought to show off your brand new DVD player and 5.1 home theater speakersystem back in 1998.

>>87634708
This reiterates what I've been saying, I said most critics got it wrong. The article also goes into further reasons why this film is subversive. Thanks for the read

>>87634891
>the true love of his life dies
>his whole family is exterminated
>hes going to live a life of constant stress from losing friends and comrades to an unending war

his life is legitimately shit now

>>87635084

Carmen was the true love of his life, Diz was just the friend that had a huge crush on him for years that he had to constantly friendzone.

>>87634867
Why is any movie worth watching dip shit? It's entertaining and hilarious >>87634396
Some of my thoughts about a particular scene, want me to go through each scene and point out the jokes for you dumb?

The central concept is riding the line between propaganda and satire. It's not completely satirical, nor is is completely propaganda. The mix makes it unique among all of films and something different to watch. It's simply a good movie but good for semi complex reasons.

I've now explained it two different ways and I'm sorry if you are to fucking dumb to understand it.

>>87634656
>some sort of future dystopian society.
I'm not actually sure I would describe it that way. Obviously military bureaucracy being a clusterfuck is a given in any society, but the civilian life depicted in the movie seems quite pleasant and completely devoid of Orwellian overtones.

>>87634656
Also not him, but you're delusional.

>>87630945
you gotta be fuckin kidding me, it was satire of the american dream and the horrors of youth sacraficing their good life for a military life you absolute mongoloid

>>87635292
>Why is any movie worth watching dip shit? It's entertaining and hilarious
I agree completely. I'm >>87633247. I love the movie to death, I'm only arguing with the underage fedoralords who think it's some kind of cutting-edge social satire or something.
>it's not completely satirical, nor is it completely propaganda
I'd say that it's none of either and a good movie for blindingly obvious reasons.
>tfw to unintelligent to argue with anon the genius.

>Starship Troopers
>The Fifth Element
>Face/Off
>Men in Black
>Austin Powers
>Con Air
>Liar Liar
>I know what you did last summer

I want to go back and live in 1997 forever.

>>87635333
I mean, you are wrong and you seem pretty tone deaf if you can't see the obvious tone the movie is going for. The satire isn't particularly cutting edge but the way it plays it so straight makes it unique.

It's a good movie for obvious reasons, but the thread isn't about that. It's the misreading of the film by critics who shit on the movie for being propaganda when it clearly was poking fun.

>>87635149
>>87635149
Carmen made it clear she didn't even like him
By the end he starts to actually like Diz because he sees her for a good fit for him

>>87631287
This is valid criticism

Starship Troopers is a fucking masterpiece.

Paul Verhoeven is amazing and he has put out some awesome scifi films like Robocop and Total Recall.

I think a lot of people cannot appreciate his sense of humor or judge his films too harshly without considering how groundbreaking they were for their time.

>>87635521
>gee why is my purposely artifical and rediculous propaganda film have paper thin characters and almost video game like environments

Gee I wonder

>>87635310

You're one of those fucking idiots who can't accept what Starship Troopers is and insists it's just a dumb action movie regardless of what the director said and regardless of the glaring evidence, why are you cunts in every Starship Troopers thread

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>>87630100
>is the massive misreading of this film by the movie critic establishment solid proof most critics are fucking retards?
That's far from the worst example

>>87630838
The irony being that it was the government that disabled the military's hand, sending ground-troops in to be massacred rather than pushing the button.

This movie is special because it was the first times I got to see penor on screen.

>>87635765

the hand is the US military in 1964 and the knife is Robert "Rolling Blunder" McNamara?

>>87634656
>I honestly don't know how dumb you would have to be to see the Starship trooper world and think Verhoven wasn't purposefully portraying some sort of future dystopian society.

the most dystopian thing about it was an attack on earth by aliens, not the culture lol


>Did you not notice the obvious government propaganda?
verhouven loved to use fake tv commercials and propaganda clips. it kind of made the film like a USO documentary of a war that followed a group of characters where it is more hopeful in the beginning and more grim near the end.

the movie was first and foremost about the horrors of war/violence with dark comedy.

Aggressively stupid militarism? The fact that most the characters with good intentions died horribly? The fact that you didn't even have political representation unless you went through government brainwashing?

>>87630100
Arcturian here. This movie was just out of place for the time. It wasn't as funny as it could be in a time of great comedies. It wasn't as fun as of ID4. It was also very lefty.

Always amazed this movie came out before 9/11. Gets the mindless jingoism of America so perfectly

>>87635792

Really gay.

>>87635817
Robbie S did nothing wrong

>>87635852
Dude casper is hot and he aged better than both those cunts
I'd still jump his bones

To the retard arguing that the film is openly dystopian
>If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn't work, no one will listen to me. So I'm going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships, but it's only good for killing fucking bugs!"
- Verhoeven
He even admits that he made the world a fascist utopia. Theres no elements of a dystopian future in the film.
If the fucking director of the original total recall and robocop wanted to put dystopian elements into ST then he would have. Its not like its something that hes not good at.
Book>Film anyway. its a great movie but he should of called it something else to allow a real ST movie to be made

>>87635842

> Arcturian here

I sure wouldn't mind gettin me a little some of that Arcturian poontang, you know what I mean

>>87630100
For years people used to shit on this movie, cluelessly, calling it cheesy garbage without giving it a second thought.

Wasn't the book pro war and authorotharianism ?

>>87636783
oh my sweet summer child...

>>87637220
What's funny ? Can you answer my question with something coming from you and not copy paste some stupid shit ?

>>87637317
I'll try, but I probably cant express myself monosyllabicly enough for you to understand it all...

here goes...

>Wasn't the book pro war and authoritarianism?

No. It was not.

>>87634124
>justify the humans aggression.
Oh, please, you faggot liberal asswipe. Nowhere in the movie are the humans the aggressors, and in the books the "bugs" are CLEARLY the invaders.

You're reading your own insipid marxism into a fucking movie.

>>87636783
Heilein was libertarian but also sincerely in favor of spartan like authoritarianism, militarism, and socialism.
He was one of those legendary "anarcho-fascists" just like Pinochet.

>>87637471
you asked twice for a very simple answer and I gave it to you. I told you you probably wouldn't be able to understand me.

Now look sad and say D'oh...

>>87634315
>The same people who whipped Rico's ass are portrayed as the good guys all the way through.
Because they are.

The whipping scene is from the book, and it's Heinlein's way of showing how the character went from joining the military to piss off his father, to learning a lesson in responsibility, because the death of his squad member was on his hands, and realizing he didn't belong there, if other people depended on him for their lives. The director took that scene (he never read the book, someone sliced that scene out of the book and just plopped it in) and just used it for effect. It's pointless, because the emotional journey rico takes in the book isn't present in the movie. Nor is anything else in the book carried over to the movie. Heinlein was exploring the idea of 'Why do we serve?", and how the military molds leaders and fighters and teams who give a fuck about each other. Most of which is lost on a liberal audience anyway.

>>87637580
Not him but you sure sound like a faggot

>>87637636
that really stings coming from you anon...

>>87637580
>I love myself and I am more intelligent than you and you are stoopid

That's how retarded you sound
How's highschool btw ? Enjoy getting slapped by jamar for being a shit stain ?

>>87634543
The whole scene is pointless. In the book, Rico gets lashed for not checking to see if an area is clear before deploying mini-nukes, and nobody is killed. Another recruit gets lashed for striking an officer, and there's a scene of a deserter who killed a child being hung. They just took the lashing and made a bullshit scene around it. In Heinlein's book, if Rico had gotten a recruit killed, he would have gone to prison, or hung. There's a scene in the book where his sgt. is talking to the commander, if Rico is worth saving, thus getting lashes instead of washing out. It wasnt bending the rules. In the movie, it's nonsensical.

>>87637751
so just to be clear, when I said
>No, it isn't.

you still don't understand right?
I just want to be clear because you seem pretty upset...

>>87636083
I don;'t consider the book and the movie to be attached at all, they just share a name. Heinlein's intent with the book was 180 degrees from what VerHoven was doing. i don't hate the movie, but it's not Heinlein's story.

>>87637546
That was my impression, there are long paragraphs about war bringing the best of men, and being vital to societies through demographic balance and channel belliquous energies away from revolutionary urges.

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>Hurr durr the product placement is bad
-actual response from professional "critics"

>>87637836
Holy shit you're still replying ? Fuck off useless friend begging retard

>>87635667
Agreed, one day this film will be seen as a sad end to a viable dcu.

>>87637864
sure. No problem. I'd just like to have the last word.
You understand.
I can tell.

>>87636783
Not even close. The book was about philisophical ideas about multiple issues. The book is set in a future with a world government - not one state over others. Heinlein was exploring his political views, and what he saw as inevitable consequences of what was happening in our world. It's not really "about" anything that can be covered in a simple statement or labels, it's supposed to make you think, that not all issues are black and white. If you think the book is "pro war", that shows you've never read it, and probably wouldn't understand it.

>>87637940
see
>>87637471

>>87637970
Definitely very upset. Why? Fuck if know. You asked a question, two people have answered you.

You may now go fuck yourself.

>>87637912
Not that guy but i think you're a faggot.

>>87637970
Are you serious with that childish shit ? No way you're 18

>>87637940
>>87637970
I told you guys he wouldn't get it

>>87637994
It's not me he's the self fellating underage cunt piece of shit who's been spending the last twenty minutes saying "mmmbyes I am smart mmmh ye" he's so butthurt about being called out on his faggotry he does this pathetic shit of quoting you into my reply. You answer is appreciated

>>87630954

The film is satirical but critics assumed it was played straight for some reason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faFuaYA-daw

>>87638007
a very clever way to try and get the last word.

I know i'm being immature but I must insist.

(also incase you couldn't tell I really didn't believe you when you said you were somebody else, but i digress)

>>87638071
>everybody who disagrees with me is the same guy over and over!
>He took my job and fucked my mom and my girlfriend!
>and now he broke my hand!

Keep replying kid

>>87638079
I'm really, really not that guy.

>>87638124
and yet you still insist on having the last word.

Im afraid you're being immature. I realize that I am as well, but I've reconciled myself to my nature and I accept even my less than admirable qualities.

Now I implore you. Stop this madness.
If you don't know the past then you don't know where you are. And if you don't know where you are then you don't know where you're going. Unless the past, the present and the future are all the same thing. That would really fuck up those history books wouldn't it? Not to mention the ordinary temporal limitations of most human skulls...
Eternity is only a day away for those who doubt it. Break the pattern. SMASH THE CLOCK.

I'm sorry but wasn't the whole justification to invade the bugs homeworld (they launched an asteroid onto one of our moons?) to be completely made up? Hardly seems like a utopia like some people are making it out to be unless you're saying that such a society can happen if you send out your youth to die in a pointless war to keep the perpetual war machine going forever.

>>87637994
also go kill yourself for telling me fuck you on baseless accusation, you still gave me a wall of text you typed with your free time, so get cucked nigger

>>87638202
I don't care about having the last word. I just want to see how much of a faggot you actually are.

>>87634789
Bugs also have no buttons. Really makes you think.

is anybody else seeing this faggot ?

>>87634867
>Unless you can show me Paul Verhoeven saying this I don't buy it. And even if he did I don't see what the hell difference that would make to anything.
>In a 2014 interview on The Adam Carolla Show, actor Michael Ironside, who read the book as a youth, said he asked Verhoeven, who grew up in Nazi-occupied Netherlands, "Why are you doing a right-wing fascist movie?" >Verhoeven replied, "If I tell the world that a right-wing, fascist way of doing things doesn't work, no one will listen to me. So I'm going to make a perfect fascist world: everyone is beautiful, everything is shiny, everything has big guns and fancy ships, but it's only good for killing fucking bugs!"[11]
His father was a fucking resistance fighter and he himself is a communist. Do the maths.

>>87638238
you say you don't care about having the last word and yet you continually exert yourself in order to get it.

At least I can admit my immaturity.

Let it go. I implore you.

>>87638377
> let it go.

Why? I have no stake in this except for mild amusement. Your position would only be valid if I was infact the anon you were discussing with.

Otherwise you're just a faggot.

>>87638429
why are you pretending to be me and feeding that
insecure retard ?

>>87638445
It amuses me.

>>87638429
if I'm replying to you you are the anon I'm discussing with. I have no position. I have only a stubborn insistence on having the last word. A compulsion you clearly share, so you should at least be aware that any and all criticisms you level at me apply equally to you.

>>87633314
Would you entertain the thought that without a humanofascist military government, the bugs would represent a far more serious threat?

I mean, ultimately the film about a big swarm of near mindless creatures fighting exactly as commanded, and the alien bugs that are not quite as smart but far more numerous.

I think the whole point of the film was that in order to defeat an enemy with whom you cannot reason, you must become what it is, only better.

Certainly, if earthgov were a bunch of softcock lefties hanging out 'arachnids welcome' and 'no being is illegal' signs, the bugs would be well on the way to annihilating humankind.

>>87638484
Actually that would be incorrect, because your irrationality in attempting to get the last word with someone who you weren't even talking with only further proves your inability to provide a reasoned and thought out argument that doesn't rely on sophistry.

And I don't even give a fuck.

>>87638377
>>87638429

You're both fags

>>87638541
I know. But I wanted him to know he was one, too.

>>87638519
Just because I wasnt talking to you when I first insisted on having the last word doesn't mean that you haven't clearly been replying to me for the last three or more posts. And regardless of the target of my acrimony, my immature stance of demanding the last word stands.
I have no need or intention of providing a reasoned or thought out argument because there is no reason or thought necessary, you entered this discussion fully aware of that, you saw me acknowledging an immature impulse to have the last word and found yourself helplessly compelled to deny it to me. What follows is not an intellectual battle or even a battle of wills, but merely a show of excessive pedantry on both sides. Furthermore, your adoption of my obviously intentionally-condescending hyper-intellectual verbiage shows that you have sunk to my level, engaging in the same form of self-aggrandizement that led you to repeatedly call me a faggot. As I've said before, I understand quite clearly that you are following the same immature impulse as I am, so you can dispense with fooling yourself. Every negative thing you've said about me applies equally to you, perhaps more so, as you entered this discussion after it had lost all value, and only continue because you are clearly as stubborn and pedantic as I.

To summarize:
>>87638541
gets it.

>>87638625
So you admit you're a shitposting faggot, then.

>>87631470
Need a quick rundown, I love the book and have seen the keanu adaptation

>>87638625
I guess you prove my first assumption with that autism paragraph, you're mentally challenged beyond healthy levels

>>87638639
I never made any claim that I wasn't.

I was quite clear about it from the beginning.

>>87637912
>I'd just like to have the last word.
>You understand.
>I can tell.

>>87638079
>I know i'm being immature but I must insist.

and again, you only serve to indict yourself as a shitposter.
Welcome to the club.

>>87638860
> quite clear from the beginning.

Only a faggot of inordinate magnitudes would put this much effort into shitposting.

MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS

>>87638887
>Only a faggot of inordinate magnitudes would put this much effort into shitposting.

you're right, you are going an awfully long way to have the last word. Im beginning to feel genuine concern for you.

>>87637523
Bugs really DID somehow send a meteor with perfect trajectory and speed to hit the earth from across the galaxy. Thats calculating the orbit of your planet, the enemy's planet, and every thing in between, moving constantly in their micro orbits around starts/planets, while simultaniously moving around the galaxy's centre WHILE the galaxy itself is moving. Really gets the old hivemind rumbling.

>>87638887
>MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODS

now who's the faggot?

>>87638249
>>87634789
I know this is probably some stupid bait, but that line was in response to the cadet saying that war is just pushing some buttons.

>this whole thread
reddit was a mistake

>>87639033
see
>>>87635645

Mosquitoes dancing on the corpse of infinity

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>People think BA wasn't an false flag
>People don't notice the drop in Klendathu's casualty figures when reported on the news
>Shots taken straight out from Triumph of the will

>>87632053
Why bring John Wick into this, it's a great film but what does that have to do with someones reading of Starship Troopers?

>>87639157
I think it was meant to be a flip remark... you know, dismissive.

>all these dumb bookfags who think their shitty sci-fi airport novel has depth
The film is so much more intelligent, mainly because Verhoeven in a real artist and Heinlein is a fucking hack

>>87639396
>obvious bait is obvious

>>87634638
This must be bait.

I find it unfathomable that someone could watch that movie and think it's played completely straight.

>>87638516
Wasn't it implied that the bugs were mostly benign until humans started fucking with them?

And that the meteor strikes were orchestrated by EarthGov to incite a global war effort

>>87639753
The meteor was from denise richards fucking around with their battleship thing. They knocked it off whatever course and into earth.

>>87639753
Yup. One of the first things they commented on once they got to the bug planet was that the bugs weapons seemed to be solely defensive.

In all honesty, I have no idea how people watching that movie saw the bug planet as a potential threat to humans. They didn't even have spaceflight so what the fuck makes people think they were able to slingshot asteroids half way across the fucking galaxy. Truly mindboggling.

>>87639848

Did you not pay attention to the movie? The asteroid was already headed toward Earth and the ship didn't alter it's trajectory at all. They noticed that it was already heading toward Earth but couldn't send a message because their communications equipment was fucked from the impact.

>>87639917
I haven't read the book, but I don't recall from the movie that the asteroid wiping out Buenos Aires was related to Denise when she was a test pilot.

That said the more I discuss the movie with friends the more I generally realize how stupid I was for not noticing certain details. Even the overarching theme only became clear after I rewatched the movie as an adult.

Am I a disgusting pleb /tv/?

>>87639973
But the bugs didn't even have the technology to be able to purposefully send the asteroid in the direction of earth.

It was simply a result of the fact that the star system the bug planet occupied had a huge asteroid belt. Many (non-bug related) things could have knocked an asteroid out of the belt and towards earth.

The whole reason for the conflict was fictitious. It was almost like a premonition of the Iraq war and existence of "weapons of mass destruction". I don't see how people are missing this...

>>87640078

So if it wasn't the bugs, than it was either

> A complete coincidence that the asteroid was headed for Earth
or
> Somehow the Earth government was able to go allll the way over to Klendathu and launch the asteroid toward Earth

The news report states that the bugs shot it using plasma, other stuff (games, books) fills this in by saying that some transport bugs can somehow travel FTL and bugs also know how to use wormholes, which is how the asteroid was able to get to Earth as quickly as it did.

I don't see how you are missing this...

>>87640078
>I don't see how people are missing this

/tv/ is pretty much the worst board.

>it is known

>>87640294
>news reports say bugs responsible for everything
>what is propaganda

Wew lad. You must literally be a brainlet.

One of the very first things said once they got to the but planet was that their weapons were ALL defensive. This was a strong hint to the fact that it was likely the asteroid strike wasn't the bugs fault.

>>87640294
Not thinking of the most obvious answer anon

>The goverment just grabbed a random asteroid from somewhere and chucked it at earth

How did the bugs somehow find out where earth is? How did the government know the rock was from Klendathu? Did they somehow backtrack the rock all the way to Klendathu? Did they know what rocks from Klendathu are composed of?

>>87640484
>Did they know what rocks from Klendathu are composed of?

stone. Duh

>>87640484

> the bugs couldn't have done it, their weapons were all defensive etc etc

Underestimating the bugs and having it end badly is a key part of the film, anon. Pay more attention.

>>87640479
>ALL defensive
Yeah right. Like the bug that has the ability to poop huge plasma balls into space like an artillery cannon. Or the bug that has a flamethrower in his mouth like godzilla. Totally defensive you filthy bug lover. BA wasn't an inside job, it's lefty bug propaganda that it was one.

>>87639998
> the more I discuss the movie with friends the more I generally realize how stupid I was for not noticing certain details. Even the overarching theme only became clear after I rewatched the movie as an adult.
>Am I a disgusting pleb /tv/?
Nah, everybody has this reaction going over ST the first time
I did a course at university on adaptation theory and wrote about the novel and the movie for my final essay, got the highest grade I've ever gotten on basically anything, it's fucking interesting

>>87640638
Yup. Being able to breathe fire like Godzilla definitely means they were able to sling shot an asteroid with unerring accuracy all the way to earth. Ditto with the bug plasma.

There's a big difference between physical capabilities and technological capabilities. Humans being blindsided by the bug's physical capabilities was an allegory on the Vietnam war and the Vietnamese guerilla war tactics catching out the US army.

Being able to defend oneself =/= posing an attacking threat.

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>>87640570
There's a middle ground between underestimation and overestimation anon, by your flimsy reasoning the Federation ordering the invasion of Klendathu with zero intel justifies the bugs somehow launching an asteroid at sublight speed from across the galaxy and hitting the Earth with pinpoint precision because 'lol don't underestimate the bugs!'
It's nonsense, it's not literally impossible but it is practically impossible, the bugs have seemingly no computational technology whatsoever but were able to calculate the trajectories of a billion different objects in space to launch an asteroid literally millions of years ago to hit the Earth where it will be in a few million years time?
Please

>>87640570
See>>87640793

>>87630100

What I love most about this film is that although the filmmaker tried to make fascism look back, it ends up making neo-fascism look functional, practical and the best solution tbqh.

>>87640978
>most functional
>unable to vote unless you've served in the army
>hundreds of thousands of those serving members are then sent to die in an unnecessary war

>>87641072

>most functional
How is it not? The way we're going as a people is down the fucking gutter, it's not happening is has already happened. People need to be treated like children when they act like it. Fascism eliminates the problems of a degenerating nation by removing those problems, what does Democracy do if not allow those problems to flourish? Rats in a cage will eat and fuck until they are apathetic and obese, try asking those rats to decide to stop rather than making them.
>unable to vote unless you've served in the army
Great, if you aren't prepared to put your life on the line, better yourself through martial discipline and come out the other end a better person then you shouldn't be able to vote on the direction of your nation
>hundreds of thousands of those serving members are then sent to die in an unnecessary war
war never changes, jew globalism and string pulling accounts for more wars than fascism.

>>87641072
>unable to vote unless you've served in the army

thats genius

>>87631287
he's right though

what DO the bugs eat ?

each other ?
rocks ?
sand ?
movie critics ?

>>87641322
Just because we don't see any wildlife doesn't mean it's not there.

>>87641275
>>87641306
The point you missed completely is that a massive chunk of the electorate Citizens are fucking dead, that's why it's a bad system. Yes give the ability to vote a degree of exclusivity, make people earn the right, but don't make earning the right potentially fatal
>the Federation was probably peaceful before the bug war
Wrong, you're shown dozens of maimed veterans in the first 30 minutes of the film (all of Johnny's teachers and the army recruiter to name a few), war might not be constant but conflicts of one type or another are definately implied to be ongoing

>>87641420
it's a couple rock planets that all look the same

what if the bugs were herbivores before and when all the vegetation was eaten up they started mutating into carnivores ?

>>87641275
>complaining about jew globalism and brainwashing
>while defending a movie that portrays a global world order in which to earn the right to vote you have to go through the government apparatus

You're a fucking retard.

>>87641454

>brainwashing
When did I say that? You're imblying hard my kike loving friend
>jew globalism
Not really the same as a sci-fi film depicting a global world order that is both neo-fascist and facing an extinction level threat, is it now

>>87630100
They didn't misread it: Paul Verhoeven tried to make an anti-war critique of a militaristic society but couldn't contain the red pills of the book. The critics just didn't like it.

> in b4 /pol/, i'm from /co/

>>87641586
>globalism not the same as a global world order
Ok.
>extinction level threat
There was no threat.

>>87641586
>extinction level threat
>Can't understand a fascist state pulling a false flag

>>87641420
But what we could witness was how humans fed a cow to one bug which the bug then defensively ripped apart. They are clearly a bloodthirsty species killing everything that gets in their way.

>ITT: People trying to read depth into something which lacks it

Verhoeven is a capable director but he's a total fucking retard philosophically and politically speaking, any political themes you think the film has are purely accidental. He refused to direct the Remake of Starship Troopers because according to him Heinlein is a fascist. The guy who wrote a bunch of hippie shit, is according to Verhoeven, a fascist.

With regard to the book, Heinlein liked to take political philosophies and create a world around them, he did it with borderline AnCap libertarianism (the Moon is a Harsh Mistress), he did a bunch of "free love and peace maaaan" books, and he did Fascism with Starship troopers.
Verhoeven didn't want to direct a proper adaptation of the book because examining political philosophies objectively and creating a realistic world around them as Heinlein does makes you a fascist as far as he's concerned. The movie tries to make fun of what he considers to be fascists but he went so hard on his straw man he actually managed to make the fascists incredibly likeable instead.

Starship Troopers is a really fun movie, but it's good by accident, not by design. Verhoeven was trying to make a flop.

>>87641667
Yeah, because animals can't be made berserk while imprisoned.

>>87641853
Fucking bug kike apologist if you like bugs so much why don't you go to their planet to live with them.

>>87642086
I'll let you know my Mormon neighbors went out to colonize a planet near arachnid space and last I heard they were fine.

Maybe we should try that.

>>87630100

It's not misread.

There's some confusion because of the ingredients.

Heinlen of course is pretty straightforward.. Right Wing, bombastic.

Neumier specifically wrote it as a satire and parody of the book.

Verhoeven was attracted to those elements, BUT, he also really likes attractive people, nudity, and LOVES violence.

I read an interview at the time with him that I can't find online (it was probably Empire or Total Film or something) where he talked about the Nazi influence on it - He said that he was obviously satirizing that sort of culture, but that also as a kid watching real life Nazis at work, he found them alluring and found their actual acts of violence arousing and exciting.

>Thread about the latest "deep" movie that everyone is talking about
>Constant shitposting
>Thread about starship troopers
>Actual thoughtful discussion and points that make me question my own ideals about films

This is going to sound Reddit as shit, but I love you /tv/.

>>87634660
Most argentinians are white anon, we are spics but we sure dont look like em

>>87630100

Yes, yes it is. Also, since nobody seems to want to mention it, go watch CGI sequels to this movie. They're fairly entertaining in their own right and Rico&co. appear in them as well. The second one especially, given that they've made a caricature of Hillary that can't be anything but intentional given how much effort it was given to play her straight.

>>87638202
what the fuck am I reading?

>>87635567
>it's supposed to be bad!

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>>87640978
>a society that has to fabricate an enemy through staging a massive falseflag that kills millions of its citizens and then has to send even more citizens to their death by fighting the fabricated enemy in an inefficient fashion just to be able to keep the war and thus the government going
>best solution
You might as well claim that the INGSOC regime looks practical and is the best solution, for fuck's sake.

>>87630100
>>87631403
>>87635549
>>87636083
Reminder that Verhoven literally wrongly said the book was pro-fascist, and he intended the film to be a satire of it.
Verhoven is just as stupid as all the critics misunderstanding the point of the movie because he misunderstood the point of the book, which he didn't even bother to read himself.

>>87641426
>don't make earning the right potentially fatal
That's literally what they did in ancient democracies. Fight for your city-state, citizen. And even that was not enough, you had to be a part of main force (in other words rich enough to buy armour set and shield and spear and sword), archers and light infantry poorfags btfo. They did live in a world of constant war though.

>>87631694
It's not an action movie though per se. The bugs are MEANT to be generic and basic and we're not meant to know much about them but BLOW EM UP ANYWAYS! It's political satire anon.

This flick is a very important piece of film history. Why do I say that? Because even though /tv/ is a Mongolian macrame topic on a Chinese image board it is still being discussed and debated 20 years after its release.

>>87643215
it's satire, so in a way, yes, it's supposed to be bad.

>>87630100
Starship Troopers: Fascism works and sometimes a false flag bombing of your own people is necessary for the greater good.

>>87634729
>all tha sciences

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>>87630100

>>87630879
Because that show was state propaganda designed to reinforce the views that the state wishes to impose, in this case that the bugs are mindless animals and they have no claim to any of the worlds they have settled. Similar to todays late night talkshows, it is achieved through a mix of taking faux-offence, ridicule and pacing and leading in order to teach the audience the correct opinions

>>87634744
FINALLY some fucking truth in this thread. Holy shit, the fucking regurgitated opinions echoed here are making me think that most of you faggots ARE the bugs. You just spew a contrarian opinion that you had read somewhere else because it was unironically (ironically) unpopular (popular), and you can't even come up with honest ways that the movie had a negative message.

There was no war until the bugs killed millions of people by obliterating Buenos Aires with an asteroid. Same thing in the book; Rico and Co all joined up so they could become citizens, and all that meant was that they could vote. Only their voice mattered because they served. Nobody joined because of an endless war. Where you turds come up with this shit is beyond me. There was literally nothing wrong with society as it stood in the film or the book.

>>87647199
>I think that the end justifies the means
>I'm also 14

>>87648075
>There was no war until the bugs killed millions of people by obliterating Buenos Aires with an asteroid.
Look at this pretentious contrarian Cracked.com twat think he understands anything when he's just a speedwatcher who completely missed a major key point of the film.

>>87637523
wait, did the bugs actually throw a meteor at Earth in the book?
I've never read it, and I assumed tying the tragedy to the bugs was just yellow journalism

>>87648347
Says the hook-nosed (((faggot))) who only reads fan theories on NEOgaf in between trading CP with the mods, instead of actually reading the fucking source material. You should kill yourself before your mother discovers what a disgrace to humanity you've become.

>>87648646
ahahaha so fucking triggered

>>87648646
>talking about the book in a /tv/ thread about the movie
In the movie the attack is a falseflag you dumbfuck.

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>>87648689
no it's not and there is nothing indicating towards your idiotic conspiracy theory

>>87648689
Prove it with facts. No fanfics. Only the movie or the script. We'll completely disregard the book for you incognito brainlets.

>>87648778
>>87648808
>being this fucking daft
The reason the movie is good is precisely because it doesn't force-fed the viewer its point, it trusts the viewer to be smart enough to see it.
You fuckers are so damn retarded that you see a movie whose main point is clearly how an ultramilitarized society needs to feed its war engine with meaningless conflict and reduce it to a piece of fascist propaganda with aliens and spaceships.

The bugs had no way of even knowing what Earth is, much less to locate it and send an asteroid its way, this is painfully obvious, one of the themes of the movie is how endless propaganda can dull the common sense, seeing how everyone trying to move beyond the "bugs are EVIL and a THREAT" was drowned by indignation and disbelief.

Poor little alt-right brainlets missing the obvious.

>>87649035
Another quality post of absolute zero substance from a butthurt libtard.

>The bugs had no way of even knowing what Earth is, much less to locate it and send an asteroid its way, this is painfully obvious
Are you dumb?
Using just movie information, we know this:
We KNOW how the brain bugs operate.
We KNOW that colonists settling too close to the bugs have gotten attacked. It's very easy to extrapolate that the brainbugs got their hands on some colonists and now know a great deal about human civilization.
We KNOW that the bugs have been expanding rapidly and they like similar planets as humans. This makes them competition. The movie even mentions how Zegima beach had an attempted colonization by the bugs.

The Bugs have the intelligence (brainbugs) and the means (plasmabugs) to actually travel through space outside of just spores. Contact with humans (through eaten colonists) gave them the knowledge of FTL, Earth and habitable worlds.

>>87649131
>We KNOW that colonists settling too close to the bugs have gotten attacked.
AHAHAHAHAHA
oh my god
ohhh my god

How is the military machine awesome in this movie?
The action is cool, because it's fucking Verhoeven, but:

>the combat gear is barely there, not even covering their arms sometimes
>the weapons are inappropriate
>the plans are designed to result in massive carnage
>the Sky Marshall's resignation is obviously fake - dude just steps behind the new, more theatrical marshall

This is the military authority sending potential citizens to their deaths while maintaining perfect control. It's population control, taking advantage of a real war. Remember that in the commentary Verhoeven says the bugs really did send the Buenos Aires asteroid.

>>87630460
This explain most political think-tanks.

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>>87635342
You and me both

>>87649131
>believing the pieces of information presented as biased and partial propaganda throughout the movie
Just use your common brain you moron, insects with no capability of developing tools have no way of manipulating an asteroid into a trajectory perfectly calculated to hit an object light years away.

That precision isn't achievable without sophisticated instrumentation.

>>87649211
Not to mention that even if we humoured the idea of the brainbugs being capable of the insane calculations needed to make the shot from the other side of the galaxy they STILL couldn't have launched the asteroid that hit Buenos Aires, unless they launched it a couple of million years before humanity even evolved. Plasma farts don't make rocks go FTL, and the rock that Carmen dodged was moving slow as fuck.

>>87637616
>that scene is from the book
I thought the ACTUAL scene was that someone Rico knew assaulted their commanding officer leading to their whipping (or was it hanging?), then Rico fainted as aresult of it.

>>87649172
The movie LITERALLY shows you a colony that was overrun with bugs and had people braindrained. It mentions that colony of mormons or some shit that got fucked up too. Hive creatures are always incredibly territorial, what makes you expect the bugs won't attack whoever settles near them?

>>87649211
>Just use your common brain you moron, insects with no capability of developing tools have no way of manipulating an asteroid into a trajectory perfectly calculated to hit an object light years away.
They're not JUST insects. The brainbugs are basically huge biocomputers that can suck the knowledge out of other species' heads. They have some sort of way of creating different species of bugs.

>That precision isn't achievable without sophisticated instrumentation.
We see them shooting ships in high orbit out of the sky. They have some sort of way to detect these things. We also don't know how much knowledge they have siphoned off. They could have very well produced some radarbugs or whatever you want to call them.
If they have the ability to make fucking plasma, it's retarded to underestimate them.

>>87630100
Kubrick
Verhoeven
Snyder
When great directors create great satirical counterculture work, the defenders of "the culture" (the critics) get defensive.

>>87649401
Oh my god, dude. Oh my fucking god. You missed EVERYTHING. Go watch the fucking movie again you shitforbrains, hahaha

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>>87649035
>>87649082

Imagine if we could all talk to each other in a respectful and productive manner.

>>87649335
You have the same hubris the military command suffered them in which you think they're JUST dumb bugs.
>they have the ability to create the insane amount of energy to generate plasma
>they have intimate or at least cursory knowledge of human capabilities from drained brains from colonist incursions on their systems
With BASIC logic, a brain bug can guess
>these humans live in environments similar to us as they're trying to settle in our worlds and breathe the same air as us
>if we want to expand, the worlds they already use are the best chance instead of shooting spores blinding
>this guy's brain tells me they have some way of traveling through space fast, maybe we can replicate it because we already have the ability to do ridiculous shit like generate plasma

The bugs have a motive and a possible means.

>>87649401
>The brainbugs are basically huge biocomputers that can suck the knowledge out of other species' heads.
And? Do you think there's a single human being that can measure the movements of the million astral bodies rotating the Milky Way in order to calculate the trajectory needed to send a trajectory all the way to another planet on the other side of the galaxy?
That's not how knowledge fucking works, knowledge tells you what mass is, it doesn't allow you to calculate the mass of an asteroid by looking at it, knowledge tells you that shit in space is constantly moving, it doesn't allow you to measure that movement by looking at it, knowledge tells you that if you hit something with enough force you'll make it accelerate, it doesn't allow you to perfectly calculate the force needed to send an object in a specific trajectory by just fucking looking at it.
What knowledge tells is that for you to do all that shit you need instruments and machines.

This is way beyond "just turn your brain bro xD", it's such an immense hole that you either assume it's meant to be a falseflag or that the movie is fucking garbage with a plot unable to stand on its own.

>>87630100
Why did Verhoeven think he was satirizing fascism with this movie? Does he not know the difference between militarism and fascism?

>>87641072
>>unable to vote unless you've served in the army
watch the movie before you criticize it

>>87648942
How many fucking chromosomes do you have, you pseudo-critic? This is my last post because I know how intellectually insecure people can't take anything enjoyable at face value and inject their inane, unfounded ramblings to twist it to fit their agenda.

First: the world of Starship Troopers is at peace. It has been for some time. The world is at peace. It is prosperous. It works. Just because JJ Abrams instilled in you a fear of space Nazis blowing up your planet because of reasons, doesn't mean that in this world, the undesirable elements have been swept away and things actually fucking work. And it mostly works because those that don't serve don't get a say. It's a central theme.
2nd: the first planet that they land on is the bugs home world; a fucking devoid of beauty shithole. The second place they assault is a moon in a whole other system. Also another fucking shithole. But how did the bugs get there?!? Obviously they can travel through space somehow, R-tard. Maybe they have other shit we don't see; like the ability to launch fucking space rocks at targets across space. Also, maybe it was a place of beauty before the bugs turned it to hell. Maybe there is a reason for trying to stop there spread. You probably fail to see the allegory I'm making there because you seem like the kind of guy who lets African refugees fuck his wife because a white person owned slaves once.
Lastly: there is a giant bug in the movie that has a giant needle in its mouth that sucks out peoples brains and it gains their intelligence. How did you miss this? If you have a giant, brain-sucking needle in your gaping vagina mouth, I suggest you use it, because you were too busy trying to think of invisible reasons the film was good, all the while missing the points which made it great.

>>87637836
This is why nobody likes you

>>87649541
Your mistake is thinking these things are just like us.
There's plenty of geniuses throughout history that have made very complex calculations just in their head that would shock the average person. The brain bugs are on an entirely different scale. They're a biocomputer, stop trying to put them in human terms. A computer CAN calculate orbital trajectories on a large scale.

Think logically. A colony would have engineers, mechanics, and technicians otherwise they'd have no way to do maintenance.These people would have intimate knowledge on how their tech actually works. Unless you think that the attacked colony for some reason didn't have a single mechanic, engineer, or technician, there's no way that the brain bug didn't have information on how human technology worked.

>>87630100
The myth that people didn't get the movie is largely a result of modern audiences being too young to remember its reception. Everyone knew it was satire, it just worked much better as a straight action movie, because Verhoeven didn't understand what he was trying to satirize.

BUENOS AIRES IS NOT A FALSE FLAG

Here's Verhoeven and the writer's commentary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlRm1y4EzhA&feature=youtu.be&t=3m29s

tl;dw:
>the bugs did not start the war
>the Mormon extremists set up a colony in the arachnid territory, which they weren't supposed to
>the bugs kill the Mormons (hence the state of affairs at the beginning of the movie) but they also sent the Buenos Aires meteor in retaliation (which triggers the Klendathu campaign)

>>87640294
>somehow the Earth government was able to go allll the way over to Klendathu and launch the asteroid toward Earth
Mormons could go and live on a moon in the middle of nowhere with no assistance, I'd take that as a sign that the universe of Starship Troopers has the technology to launch a hunk of rock in a certain direction

>>87649632
>First[...]
This isn't even an argument against anything I've said.
>2nd: the first planet that they land on is the bugs home world; a fucking devoid of beauty shithole. The second place they assault is a moon in a whole other system. Also another fucking shithole. But how did the bugs get there?!? Obviously they can travel through space somehow, R-tard. Maybe they have other shit we don't see; like the ability to launch fucking space rocks at targets across space. Also, maybe it was a place of beauty before the bugs turned it to hell. Maybe there is a reason for trying to stop there spread. You probably fail to see the allegory I'm making there because you seem like the kind of guy who lets African refugees fuck his wife because a white person owned slaves once.
Because they can send SPORES to other nearby planets, that doesn't imply they have FTL techonology, that doesn't imply they can send asteroids away.
>Lastly: there is a giant bug in the movie that has a giant needle in its mouth that sucks out peoples brains and it gains their intelligence. How did you miss this? If you have a giant, brain-sucking needle in your gaping vagina mouth, I suggest you use it, because you were too busy trying to think of invisible reasons the film was good, all the while missing the points which made it great.
See >>87649541


>>87649688
Jesus Christ you're a fucking retard mate.
I didn't talk only about calculations, I've talked almost exlusively about the MEASUREMENTS you need to do to be able to calculate the trajectory in the first place. It doesn't matter if they suck the brain out of Ramanujan, measuring the speed and trajectory of celestial bodies light years away is not a question of genius.

Without the ability to make tools, you don't get to do the necessary measurements to do that.

>>87649733
Verhoeven is a career bullshitter, you should hear his commentary on Flesh and Blood.

>>87649211
A species capable of shooting down spaceships from orbit is not capable of creating sophisticated instrumentation?

>>87649539
>coming up with fanfic shit about the bugs replicating human FTL travel and thinking it's in the movie
Jesus christ, dude. Did you miss the part where everyone was surprised about a dude having his brain missing? Because it was a new tactic for the bugs?

>>87649861
>shooting spaceships that are in orbit, that you can see with your eyes is the same as sending a moving asteroid to hit a moving planet hundreds of light years away
>having bugs that can shoot plasma they generate biologically is the same as having the hability of creating sophisticated measurement tools

I can't believe you thought you had a point.

>>87649794
>Without the ability to make tools, you don't get to do the necessary measurements to do that.
They have the ability to create a bunch of different castes of bugs for different purposes and they could do it quickly.

Why would they need orbital defense buttblasters until they encountered humans? That means these things were developed.
Using knowledge gained from braindraining the mormon technicians, engineers and mechanics, they could easily gain the knowledge of the theory behind the humans' information gathering systems like radar or whatever. They can produce a bug that serves the same purpose as a radar dish or whatever the equivalent is that humans use. We KNOW they can do crazy bullshit like this since they can create and contain fucking plasma which is not easy.

Secondly, they HAD these radar bugs available during the klendathu battle because they were able to guide the plasma shots in orbit. The shots were not random, they were guided. That means the bugs have some sort of way of detecting objects in space. They have detection tools. Which means they have measurement tools. Biotechnology is an incredibly common scifi trope.

>>87649933
Humans rarely came into contact with bugs outside of assend of the universe colonists that no one cares about, you simpleton.
It wouldn't be headline news if some colonist in the middle of nowhere got his brain eaten. No one would care.

If some guy today got his brain eaten by a bear in the middle of greenland, it wouldn't be headline news.

>>87649958
I guess if you think that the plasma bugs are naturally evolved and not sophisticated machines you could keep the dumb bug narrative alive. Would love to know how something like that evolves in nature.

>>87649972
>They have the ability to create a bunch of different castes of bugs
You seriously need to get your headcanon out of here, mate. Nowhere in the movie do they bring up the fact that they can just make new kinds of bugs.

>Why would they need orbital defense buttblasters until they encountered humans?
That's how they spread their species across the stars, by randomly spraying their seed into the cosmos and sometimes lucking out, they mention it in the movie. When attacked they were just able to harness that ability as a defensive weapon.

>>87649958
>you can see ship barely bigger than a football field in high orbit with your eyes
You're being ridiculous. Not to mention that even if you can SEE something in orbit, getting accurate aim on it is incredibly hard. Calculating something's trajectory through an atmosphere is HARD.

I don't think you understand how incredibly sophisticated the bugs must be to have figured out how to create and contain plasma.

>>87650051
>some random colonist in the middle of nowhere knows not only how to build an FTL drive, but how it works on a level where some bugs can replicate the technology without using any tools, just by reading his mind
That's not how advanced technology works, you dumbass.

>>87635342
>no 9/11
>no facebook
>no SJWs
>no president Trump
>you could become a god like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day

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>Heinlein writes a book about the importance of responsibility and duty, gets accused of fascism.
>Verhoeven doesn't get either the book or fascism, tries to make an anti-fascist parody of the book, gets accused of fascism.
>Audiences don't give a shit about any of the above, enjoy a fun action movie, get accused of sympathizing with fascism.

>>87650138
The bugs weren't tracking trajectories or anything like that, though. They were just covering an area with plasma, which the ships were retarded enough to fly into even after they realised that the landing wasn't going like planned.

>>87650120
>You seriously need to get your headcanon out of here, mate. Nowhere in the movie do they bring up the fact that they can just make new kinds of bugs.
They're a singular species, mate yet they have these defined and incredibly different castes. They DO have some way of guiding their own evolution otherwise they were all be the same exact type of bug.

>>87650170
No that's exactly how it works. If you talk to a car mechanic, he can give you a very good idea of what everything in a car does and what the theory behind it is.
These colonists HAVE to have mechanics, technicians and engineers just to keep their colony running and make/maintain equipment.

>>87632738
It's satirical in nature that parodies the military and nationalism.

It also lampoons the cheesy 90s love-story dramas with the love square in the film while contrasting it to horrific, inter-specie violence.

I'm sorry you're a brainlet. Must be frustrating.

>>87650228
An area in space of that size is absolutely tiny compared to the rest of the sky.
That still requires immense precision.

>>87649972
Not only we don't know whether they're capable of creating a bunch of castes at will, you're also assuming they have radar bugs available.
And no, having detection tools doesn't mean they have measurement tools, just because they can sense an object moving towards the planet doesn't mean they can measure the exact distance and speed, and to achieve the accuracy needed to do the feat you're defending you need to measure things up to the 10th decimal digit.

>>87650138
>Calculating something's trajectory through an atmosphere is HARD.
Do you realize the point you're defending is that they're capable of calculating a trajectory to an object on the other side of the galaxy?
It's beyond knowing how to do FTL travel, it's something that isn't considered impossible simply because we're in the context of a very soft sci-fi flick.

>>87634656
This guy gets it. People in this thread are retarded.

>>87650249
You can take a hundred car mechanics to the middle of the amazon and have them bring as many teaching tools as they want to show the uncontacted tribes how a car works, the tribesmen still wouldn't be able to build a car because they don't have the fucking infrastructure to make the parts needed to build a car.

>>87650426
I'm not even the anon you're talking to but you're an idiot.
These bugs have guided evolution, are capable of sending multiple meteors to planets across galaxies, are able to shoot at spacecrafts in space, and use strategy and three pronged attacks on defensive outposts and you're using retarded analogies.

In this analogy, the Amazonians (bugs) have the ability to use the theories from the mechanic and are able to grow tires, gear differentials, and alternators - just that knowledge in itself is the infrastructure the bugs need.

>>87650360
>Not only we don't know whether they're capable of creating a bunch of castes at will, you're also assuming they have radar bugs available.
But they DO have some way of guiding their own evolution. What only changes is the timescale they can make these changes.
>And no, having detection tools doesn't mean they have measurement tools, just because they can sense an object moving towards the planet doesn't mean they can measure the exact distance and speed, and to achieve the accuracy needed to do the feat you're defending you need to measure things up to the 10th decimal digit.

They can do it the same way we've done it. Triangulation. All they need are multiple detection points that can communicate between each other and it's simple stuff unless you someone think the brainbug can't handle basic geometry.
Knowing the units of things is the easiest part. Greeks got the circumference of the earth within an extremely accurate degree without anything resembling modern tech.

>>87651320
>triangulate the position of a planet hundreds of light years away
For fuck's sake.

>>87651625
Mate people have been doing orbital mechanics in our own solar system for centuries with great accuracy. I'm sure people with multiple bio supercomputers can do that just fine. Not with triangulation specifically but with some general physics.

>>87650942
>I'm not even the anon
Yeah, sure thing.
>These bugs have guided evolution
Headcanon.
>are capable of sending multiple meteors to planets across galaxies
Nope, that was an obvious false-flag because the bugs are shown to not have the capability to send a meteor across the galaxy to target humanity, it only makes sense if they wanted to wipe out the dinosaurs. The meteor we saw sure as shit wasn't moving at FTL speeds so arguing about the bugs using that to send the meteors is stupid.
>are able to shoot at spacecrafts in space
We can currently shoot at shit in our orbit. You know what we can't do? Send a nuke across the galaxy and have it arrive within humanity's lifespan.
>use strategy and three pronged attacks on defensive outposts
We could do that in the fucking stone-age, it has no relevance. You seem under the impression that we're arguing about the intelligence of the bugs, but we're not.
>and you're using retarded analogies.
I wasn't the one who brought up car mechanics in the first place, you imbecile.

>>87651763
>Mate people have been doing orbital mechanics
And yet it wasn't until very recently that we managed to direct an object to another celestial body.
Sending it to an object beyond our solar system is just impossible, you have to calculate the trajectories of millions of different bodies rotating on millions of diferent axes and that's only after measuring the exact position and distance of each one of them.

>>87651909
>And yet it wasn't until very recently that we managed to direct an object to another celestial body.
Because we didn't have the technology. The bugs have the technology to launch things into orbit.
But before we even got there, people were studying and accurately doing orbital mechanics for centuries. You don't have to get to space to get accurate models of how orbital bodies move.

>>87651625
the bugs sucked out the colonist's brains, using the knowledge gained from the invaders the bugs counter attacked.

Klendathu did nothing wrong.

Whether or not the bugs actually sent the meteor initially, the point is the military knew about it and let it happen. They specifically altered the course for their ships to an inefficient one to avoid its path, the girl's ship didn't encounter it until she inappropriately adjusted course without telling anyone.

>>87653211
hey buddy, war keeps their society from breaking down. Be it bugs or skinnies or whatever new threat that pops ups Humanity must be united as one to fight it. Society must be washed clean with the blood of the willing, brave citizens.

>>87630100
death of the author and all that my dude

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>>87630100
>shows a world where humanity is rid of internal problems and united
>never shows any negative sides to the fascist government
>actually makes them seem awesome
it's satire guys, just look at the intermissions
just like robocop. you thought robocop was supposed to be badass? that he was righting wrongs, as the movie presented him? WRONG! it's satire, idiot! if you liked robocop then the joke's on you!

It's a fun movie but anyone who thinks it has deep messages "between the lines" must've only watched capeshit their entire lives. The movie is pretty blatant with its references.

>>87655079
I feel like it shows some negative sides

>>87655275
that's because you're a libcuck numale
8
MORE
YEARS

>>87630900
Mein fuhrer!

>>87655079
>crippled veterans left and right
>literally millions dying to keep the society propped up
>never shows any negative sides
Why are fascistaboos so fucking retarded?

>>87655275
that was just a training accident
and he got punished for it