>I admire Tolkien greatly. His books had enormous influence

>>87102431
>muh relativism

I wonder who could be behind this idea

File: george-r-r-martin.jpg (29KB, 619x386px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 619x386px

"Ah, ha ha, *munch, munch* ol' J.R.R., didn't, ah, see you come in! -burp- No please, please, [smack] sit down, sit down, there' something we, (pant) need to talk about. *farts* Heavens excuse me, oh ho! Well getting down to 'brass tacks' - or brass tax, I might say SNORT! - yes, well I was sitting, counting the money coming in from, slurp, my show - terribly taxing ah yes? - when the thought occurred me, watching that money from my award-winning show... [belch] from my, (siiippp) award, award, awar... sorry, I lost my breath, award-winning books, that I [chews] that I can't seem to recall you mentioning [more chewing] anything about Gondor's *blows nose* taxation policy. Surely I must have -releases one long wet smelly fart - missed it while glancing through the pages (cough). You did [scratches ballsack] say something about it, right? Sales tax? (sweats) Value-added tax? *licks lips* Don't just sta - oh my my heart - stand there my man, out with it! Surely the, the thought has crossed your mind?! -chuckles until accidental urination-"

>>87102484
((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))

>>87102431
So he doesnt like Star Wars?
B-but space opera

lotr is barely above Harry potter in terms of quality of writing.

>>87102431
You can think anything of that guy, but he sure knows how to create a great, intricate story. Game of Thrones is one of the most developed fantasy books of the century.

>>87102431
He's also said some people are good to the point of almost being all white and some are bad to the point of being almost all black. There is definitely good and evil in his books. It's not just internal within characters but also between characters. The Mountain and Robb Stark aren't just two greys fighting. One is clearly bad and the other is clearly good. But they're still good and bad in a way that's human.

>>87102431
The moral ambiguity he gives every character is a pretty convenient excuse for lousy writing and covering of plot holes. "Did I just write myself into a corner? I know, I'll have the character do something completely against their nature to get out of it! Everything is shades of grey!!!!"

You retards! GoT clearly subverted the trope by having the good guys in black (Night Watch) and the bad guys in white (White Walkers). It's ironic, brilliantly executed, and incredibly complex and smart.

>>87102909
>"Did I just write myself into a corner? I know, I'll have the character do something completely against their nature to get out of it! Everything is shades of grey!!!!"
When did that ever happen?

File: 1503786662778.png (2MB, 620x2250px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 620x2250px

>>87102431


> I admire Tolkien greatly but ultimately he finished the story he wanted to tell. The real world isn't like that, you get distracted, put things off, change what you were going to do two thirds into doing it, get stuck so you work on other projects no one cares about, repeatedly break promises, then die.

>>87102909
Examples.

>>87102431
Tolkien is to creative literary genius what Martin is to hack pulp idiocy. They both so far surpass anyone else in their field that they will be remembered 1,000 years from now as a kind of yin and yang of fantasy, a Manichaen duality of speculative letters. For every sublime, luminous beauty that Tolkien has gifted the world, Martin has cursed us with a tedious, banal ugliness. It is unfair to compare the two directly on any one point, because Martin is in every way the anti-Tolkien, patently sterile, parasitical, and inferior, but so much so that he becomes a monument in his own right, and counterbalances Tolkien. Could one exist without the other? Tolkien obviously could. But it is only by the contrast that Martin offers that we can truly appreciate the full depths and heights of Tolkien. Our understanding of Tolkien would be incomplete if Martin had never set pen to page. It is through only the abject failure and futility of Martin that we can approach an apprehension of the true scope and scale of Tolkien's hitherto inconceivable greatness. Perhaps this is what Tolkien had in mind when he wrote about the Music of the Ainur. If Tolkien is a subcreator in the image of Eru, truly Martin is like unto Melkor. It is only reflected in the awfulness of the one that we can fully see the goodness of the other.

>>87102658
the only thing that elevates Tolkien is the fact that he was a linguistic expert and could create intricate languages
His writing is otherwise genre fiction

>>87103159
his writing is mythological not "genre fiction" holy shit

>>87103159
lol dumbass

>>87103050
>he thinks Tolkien was done with Middle-Earth when he died
Confirmed for not knowing what he's talking about

File: 67c8ced441906092f0e4022617980537.jpg (33KB, 620x400px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 620x400px

>>87102520
kek

>>87102909
you are talking out of your ass and never read a single book of his.

>>87102431
>"I admire Tolkien greatly. His books had enormous influence on me."
why do retards always interpret this as an attack on Tolkien? All he ever sid was that Tolkien didn't write about realistic people, but wrote a mythology. Which is exactly what Tolkien intended. And it is undeniable that Tolkien created characters with black and white morals.

his one complaint is that Tolkien created tropes a lot of people picked up and ran with, while keeping is shallow and not nearly as interesting as Tolkien.

>>87102431
Fantasy should be more like real life.

>>87102520

Reading this made me feel gross

File: maxresdefault.jpg (79KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 1280x720px

>>87102520
>they have a cave toll

File: IMG_7897.jpg (65KB, 724x479px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 724x479px

>>87102520
Kek

>>87102909
you just pulled that out of your ass didnt you

>all the brainlets itt shitting on him while being uncapable of giving a rebuttal
lmao

File: 1481667885015.png (115KB, 302x350px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 302x350px

>>87103461
heh heh

File: 1485822490635.jpg (10KB, 336x322px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 336x322px

>>87102431
>the idea of the Dark Lord and his Evil Minions
for example the Night King and his wights?

File: the-lord-of-the-rings-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-411.png?w=590.png (238KB, 590x369px) Image search: [Google]

238KB, 590x369px

>>87103461
If I take one more step, I am no longer covered by my health insurance for injuries that may occur as a result of workplace accidents, housefires, or car crashes.

>>87102431
That's perfectly reasonable.

>>87102909
Genuinely can't think of an example of this in the books. Maybe Tyrion killing Shae?

File: large.jpg (77KB, 500x410px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 500x410px

>I didn't think it would end this way.
>End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Taxation is just another path, one that we all must take. The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all turns to silver glass, and then you see it.
>What? Gandalf? See what?
>Paved roads, and beyond, a far maintained infrastructure under a swift bureaucracy.
>Well, that isn't so bad.
>No. No, it isn't.

>>87103835
>Maybe Tyrion killing Shae?
The bitch deserved that. She sold him out.

A better example would be Theon betraying Robb. I never felt convinced that Theon was willing to go that far.

File: frodo.jpg (43KB, 600x599px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 600x599px

Why didn't they just use TurboTax?

>>87103892
>I never felt convinced that Theon was willing to go that far.

I think it was at least partially due to fear and resignation. If he went back to Robb to tell him what happened, Robb would never trust him again and Baelon would disinherit in immediately. No matter what Theon did, the Greyjoys were going to attack the Starks, and Theon would lose Robb's trust forever. Combine that with desperation for his father's approval and resentment against the Starks and it makes a lot of sense, at least in the books. In the show it felt like it was a much more jarring, spur of the moment decision.

>>87103892
>. I never felt convinced that Theon was willing to go that far.
What is "that far" ? He didn't kill anyone. He just lead the attack on Winterfell. Then he got fucked over.

So what is "that far" to you? The fact he sided with his father and sister over his kidnapers? Nigger, please.

>>87104197
He killed two farmer boys and flayed them and told the entire world it was the Stark brothers.

>>87102520
one for my grrm hate folder.

>>87102723
most overdeveloped, maybe. about half of the characters, countries and plotlines are just worthless clutter and set-dressing at best.

>>87102520
Needs a (Dodges draft)

>>87103239
he clearly finished telling the story of lord of the rings. the other stuff is peripheral.

>>87103137
>muh beauty
kys

>>87102431
>I think ultimately the battle between good and evil is weighed within the individual human heart and not necessarily between an army of people dressed in white and an army of people dressed in black
He literally has an evil army of the the undead being led by a thousand year old "dark lord"

>>87103864
there's nothing ridiculous about what GRRM said about JRRT though. at least not outside of the hypebole of JRRT fanbois.

>>87104873
yeah but we don't know yet if it plays out in a cliched manner. what if the night king isnt just evil but pursues some specific plan for reason we dont udnerstand yet?

>>87104197
>his kidnapers
Yeah he sure felt wronged about that, being raised like a son and being allowed to go hunting, train, receive a noble education and fuck whores whenever he wanted.

>>87104987
He's a hypocrite.

>muh tax policy
>doesn't have a single tax policy in his books

hmmm

>>87104361
Tolkien started what became the Silmarillion in 1911, well before either Hobbit or Rings.

>>87105412
>point ------>
>(your head)
GRRM used tax policy as an example for the mundane aspects of governing a realm which played no significant part in JRRT's works. aspects which inevitably drag any ruler into an ugly side of life, as grey area. that doesn't mean LOTR or Hobbit were bad - the fact that they ignore these aspects just adds to their fairy tale-like atmosphere.

GRRM's success lies exactly in highlighting these other aspects of medieval fantasy, something the generations of authors who blindly followed JRRT did neglect.

it also doesnt mean that one is superior to the other (that is a matter of taste) but both complement each other within the narrative space of the genre.

>>87104987
Other than it's retarded and pointless.

>>87103892
>that Theon was willing to go that far.
Did you read the books? Theon clearly has many many reservations about what he's done but keeps going due to a sense of familial obligation and being goaded by others, plus he's 18 at the start of the story, are you going to tell me no 18 year old has ever done dumb shit they later regret

You can tell the people who post this quote haven't read anything after required reading in high school, even the most basic of genre fiction. This can be evident from the complete lack of reading comprehension in the intention of the quote, and the fixation on taxation (which was a throwaway example).

Tolkien is mythology, ASOIAF is high fantasy or sword and sorcery.

Referring to the Night King, likely Martin gas something planned like Wheel of Time. The Dark One was just Voldemort tier villian, but towards the end and after meeting his followers the Foresaken, finds out there is more nuance to hum. The Wheel of Time is a constant cycle of destruction, rebuilding, and reincarnation, with characters appearing again and again throughout time stuck in the same kind of role. The Dark One's motivation is to
>break the wheel
To end inescapable fate

>>87105790
Not it isn't. GRRM is responding to people trying to compare his series to LOTR. To these people he is explaining that Tolkien was a massive influence on him, but their series are fundamentally different in key things like characterization. Not that his is better, it is just in a different genre.

>>87106057
>Responding to retards on twitter
Retarded
>Trying to explain things to retards on twitter
Pointless

>>87105967
>Tolkien is mythology
lmao

>>87106174
Read some mythology and read Tolkien. Then pick up something like Wheel of Time or Malazan Book of the Fallen. There are fundamental differences at the core of these stories. Mythology is what he wrote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien%27s_legendarium
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngbeyond/rings/myth.html

tolkien is even worse than grrm. very boring to read and every chapter has at least 3 faggy songs. the only people who defend him are geeky obsessive tolkientards that haven't read many books.

>>87106301
The only remarkable part of Tolkien mythos are his fictional languages.
The rest of it is derivative schlock from works of fiction and mythologies that came before him.

>>87102596
Star Wars isn't a space opera
Even the old one is a shitty family fantasy while kino like THX 1138 was coming out

>>87106415
Where did I say I adore Tolkien? I don't really enjoy reading his works more than once. But the narrative structure and characterizations makes his materials mythology, that is the point I'm making

>>87106504
>THX 1138
Which I actually just realized was directed by George Lucas. He dropped the fucking ball with Star Wars imo. Great mythology, great universe, sub-par movies

>>87103159
>genre fiction
Someone has just found /lit/ and repeats their memes in a desperate atempt to appear sophisticated and well-read.

>>87102431
>Muh grey morality
>Created both Ramsay Bolton and Joeffry Baratheon.
Fat hack.

>>87107248
>genre fiction is a /lit/ meme
t. brainlet

>>87107248

>genre fiction
>/lit/ meme

Are you trolling or just retarded

>>87105682
>GRRM's success lies exactly in highlighting these other aspects of medieval fantasy
GRRM success is in mindless parroting Victorian era stereotypes about medieval Europe and getting endlessly praised for it. Nothing about GRRM's portrayal of governing is anythig close to reality.

>>87102431
Funny he says this as the TV show he guided gradually transforms into a drama with simplified morals and a big bad evil who has virtually no good side at all.

>>87107528
people don't watch fiction for realism. that's why star wars is popular and hard sci-fi is not. grrm has done well.

>>87102520
Wonderful.

>>87107640
>dude grrm is showing the grey mundane side of medieval life!
>no he isn't, he's just perpetuating tired myths
>dude who cares MUH DRAGONS
Every single time with you fucks. Last post I waste on you.

>>87103137

"No!"

>>87102484
>moral ambiguity in a book is Jewish tricks
please kill yourself, even Hitler would have said you're a retard

>>87108132
nice misquoting. fantasy is a romanticized version of medieval life/myths and while you're calling these myths tired a new generation of readers/viewers disagrees. they're fascinated by these myths. and a few decades down the way a new generation will rediscover those tired myths again (and again) when another author will pick up on them and make them his own.

and i bet there will be people like you standing on the sidelines staring in disbelief. it will not matter.

>>87107528
Not really tho. I know a couple of people working a the MA departement and they literally all love the books because it captures better than most fiction how pre-modern societies work.

>>87103774

Is the Night King even in the books?

do people actually think the Game of Thrones books are good? Cause everyone circlejerks the books too but I don't want to read them

>>87103804

kekkles

>>87108417
the first three are fine. goes to shit after that

>>87102431

this fat faggot will never be on Tolkien's level.

muh moral grey ambiguity. Kys you fat bastard.

>>87106174
>I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own … Do not laugh! But once upon a time (my crest has long since fallen) I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story… which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country.

This is literally what mythology is.
http://digitalcommons.hollins.edu/ughonors/1/

>>87108394
nope
The Night's King is but he is very different.

>>87106354

I know. And literally zero tits or the word cunt!

>>87108394
Yes but he's an old story of a nights watch lord commander who fucked a white walker, the show night king is not the same person.

>>87108462
>being in a country so devoid of culture you have to take mythos from other European countries and proclaim them as your country

>>87108492
>>87108556

That's what I thought. I wouldn't be surprised if the books ended up not at all turning into a "all the remaining popular characters band together to fight the Others and their evil Night King!" like the show has become. Other than one fight several books ago they haven't even done anything. The wildlings didn't get attacked and they were north of the wall for a shitload of time.

>>87108606
Are you an American?

He is not wrong

>>87102520
kek

>>87108858
Spanish, actually.
Don't even get me started on those filthy American mongrels.

>>87108992
i see someone didn't siesta today

>>87102431
Sounds like someone is avoiding to acknowledge the existence of Feanor and his children in Alda's universe

>>87103050
FUCK YES GOT-LOST VERTICALS LETS DO THIS MOTHER FUCKERS

File: Screenshot_2017-06-27-03-06-23.png (440KB, 960x540px) Image search: [Google]

440KB, 960x540px

>>87108992
Blow it out your ass

>>87103835
Tywin fucking Shae? Where dafug did that came from?

>>87109156
>people don't understand the simplistic character that Shae is
lmao

>his story boils down to young and beautiful 'chosen ones' fighting an evil army with no humanity

Hmm

>>87108992
>Mongrels

Look who's talking Jose

>the tv show is the same as the books
People need to shut the fuck up about things they don't know

File: 1449364892433.png (161KB, 271x222px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 271x222px

>>87103159
>defined the entire genre
>His writing is genre fiction

>>87104335
I don't think Tolkien, a veteran fighter such as him, could dodgy a fart that large tbhfamalam whoa Black Betty famalam, whoa Black Betty famalam.

>>87105412
The brothel tax was a fairly big part of book 2. But in general there is way more talk of finance and policy in GoT and if you dont think so you really haven't read them.

>>87107434
>>87107405
t. /lit/eddit. Stop justifying a shit boards shit opinions about things. /lit/ literally has people try and defend objectively shit things the same way as /tv/ does. Remember all those BvS 'analysis' essays the board wrote? Well imagine that for books. /lit/ is so fucking contrarion that they end up supporting a shitbook that is shit because the world agrees it is shit after it was originally considered good.

>>87108450
idk about 4 and 5 going to shit, you can make a great book out of both of them combined. Just that the other half kinda drags.

File: 1407603524471.jpg (18KB, 220x239px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 220x239px

What the fuck? Did this fat fuck even read Tolkien?

>>87104361
It's the other way around, retard

File: 2af.jpg (231KB, 960x686px) Image search: [Google]

231KB, 960x686px

>>87102520
kekkity

>>87102658
LotR has some of the more beautiful usage of language in English literature. The sheer quantity of poems and songs and ballads embedded in it is impressive by itself.

>>87102520
10/10. New pasta?

>>87104987
>>87105682
>reads a mythopoeia
>"yeah, this thing lacks some tax policies and other mundane shit"

how fucking dumb is GURM?

>>87109646
>>87108424
Samefag

>>87104987
The ridiculous thing is the complete misreading of Tolkien's writing.
Complaining about the lack of mundane realism (taxes was only brought as an example) in Middle Earth is literally like complaining about the lack of mundane realism in Nordic Sagas.

File: 1503432966072.jpg (26KB, 291x283px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 291x283px

>>87102520
Good shitpost.

>>87109724
i didnt read grrm as saying tolkien should have included that in lotr. i read him as
>these are the aspects that interest me about fantasy

>>87105280
he was a ward and kept at an arm's length, with even eddard largely ignoring him. jon's isolation as a bastard was not nearly as intense.

>>87110219
Eddard provided him with the same home as his sons and the same education.
He befriended Jon, Bran and Robb so he wasn't isolated.
He lived far better in Winterfell than in that shithole they call a castle of Pyke.

File: sauron speaks.png (178KB, 1045x869px) Image search: [Google]

178KB, 1045x869px

>>87102431
WHOAH THERE NIGGA, did you just imply Sauron wasn't the good guy?

But in all seriousness, GRM is a hack who doesn't realize that European mythology is based on good and evil because of the essential role Christianity plays in it. And you can have interesting stories and shades of grey within that as well. Look at Paradise Lost.

>>87104361
why say anything at all if you know so little about the subject matter?

>>87102520

I can smell this post

>>87110443
>no true mother or father figure in his life
>all true brothers dead
>the romanticized ironborn dream that was shattered when he stepped foot in pyke
>tasked with raiding coastal villages in a group, not even as an independent captain, as the war wages on elsewhere
you didn't even read the books

>>87109156
>whore fucks rich guy for money
>whore fucks even richer guy for money

makes sense to me

>>87103271
Sauce?

>>87110680
Except that never bothered him in any way.
He was pretty content with his life on Winterfell, to the point he went to war with them.
It wasn't until the piece of shit that's his father started calling him a pussy for being raised by the Starks instead of being a true Greyjoy (when the only reason he had to be raised by them was because he failed his rebellion in the first place).

>DUDE LEMME PUT RAPE IN EVERYTHING IT MAKES IT BADASS

the fat fuck will never create something so wonderful like hobbits.

File: 1459277312628.jpg (109KB, 978x595px) Image search: [Google]

109KB, 978x595px

>>87102431

>It's yet another GRRM blogs about wildcards instead of writing TWOW episode

>>87103159
>His writing is otherwise genre fiction
You're an embarrassment.

>>87104219
where does it say he actually flayed them? didn't ramsay just suggest it?

>>87108992
>Spanish
>literally a Muslim nation for 800 years
>others lack unique culture
heh

>>87109522
>/lit/ literally has people try and defend objectively shit things
This. /lit/ are just contrarians who get off from defending shit books. Literally all the books they worship as masterpieces are unreadable garbage, Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow, The Sound and the Fury, The Phenomenology of Spirit, etc. I love reading so I've tried reading all of them and they're just laughably bad. Nothing but pseudointelectual shit for kids who want to feel intelligent for reading "hard books".

>>87109155
i want satania to blow my brains out!

HOLY SHIT
WHERE DAFUCK CAN I DOWNLOAD THIS?
https://youtu.be/8w2oRokNU3s

>>87110834
>DUDE LEMME PUT RAPE IN EVERYTHING IT MAKES IT BADASS

the only instances of actual literal rape (by medieval standards) i can think of during the story are

>dothraki raping the lazareen
>super maximum 100 man gangbang of a child name lollys (kek)

meanwhile other authors use rape or the threat of rape as forced character development for every female character of the cast

>>87110783
Lily from How i met your mother

File: 1477475160917.jpg (53KB, 399x385px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 399x385px

>>87102520

>>87102431
I'm sure he also sees unnecessary rapes content and literal shit porn.

Martin is a hack.

>>87111383
GoT>LotR

>>87111100
they sometimes recommend decent stuff, but, yeah, they mostly have shit taste

>>87102520
Jesus Christ This is perfect

>>87109830
>posting in a thread more than once makes you a samefag
Way to out yourself, newfag

>>87107373
Idiot showfag detected

>>87111796
Posting the same type of non-post (which is a rules breech) to the same post to give it more replies, when you're the same person, makes you a samefag.

I've been here a year which is longer than you, newfag, so fuck off to >>>/v/ or one of the other shitpost boards.

>>87111910
But that anon's posts were to two different posts, not the same one

>>87102431
>His books had enormous influence on me.

Clearly his work ethic wasn't though.

>>87111967
GRRM needs to fight Commies in Spain desu.

>>87110783
Amadeus.

>>87112202
Amadeus.

>>87111967
Tolkien took 12 years to write the Lord of the Rings, which in the end is just over 1000 pages with all three books. Meanwhile GRRM's books are all around 1000 each, and he's written multiple within 12 years, so your point is fairly moot.

>>87113511
didnt tolkien also write the massive appendices and backstory to everything too

>>87113511
Except Tolkien made his own map, mythology and languages which then set the basis of pretty much every fantasy to come. He also wrote it by hand and or typewriter. GRRM has computers, auto-dictate and mad a map by flipping the Island of Ireland upside down and sticking it on top of Scotland. He uses English for everything, he didn't make Elvish or Black Speech. He didn't write poems and songs of any length or worth. He didn't fill it with mythos and wonder.

Take Tolkien out of history and you're left with a huge gap as everybody who used his stuff falls away. Take GRRM out and you still have all the sons and daughters of Tolkienism. I doubt GRRM will be spawning an entire genre on his own.

Daily reminder that Sapkowski prose, in non-english books, is way better and more interesting than this fat shithead. Also they are friends IRL and the Winter / White Frost was introduced on early Witcher books and then the fat fucker copy it on ASOIAF.

>>87114085
this nigger attended writing workshops with fucking Gene Wolfe in the 80s. He could have been a good writer if he applied himself, instead he just decided to shit out derivative garbage.

>>87102431

YOU are not that smart. Don't fake it.

Relativism is reverse racism.

LGBT are a mass rebellion version of Caligula.

Celebrities are our Nero.

Only action and violence can save civilization.

File: Such is the book.jpg (420KB, 1680x735px) Image search: [Google]

420KB, 1680x735px

>>87102999
>You retards! GoT clearly subverted the trope
>Subverted the trope

I understand the reasons for doing it, the innate craving for marketer cock, but this right here, this ideology of post-modernist literary bullshitting has gotten far out of hand. Every fucking western fantasy or science fiction book author having to do this to justify their inane crap these days by pointing this out about their work is why I stopped caring about author opinion. In their thirst to break the mold and scream that their stories are different and hip, unlike the other guys, they pigeonhole themselves as just another fuckwit in a long line of fuckwits trying to reinvent the wheel only to come off as smug and asinine.

Steven Erikson did the same thing with interviews about his Malazan series. And so did Michael Moorcock back in the day. But at least when Moorcock insulted his peers, he did it in a sort of humble tone. Is denigrating the works of other authors for the sake of a quick buck and a headline just a Canadian/American/English writer thing? Because I haven't read the like of Nahoko Uehashi or old guys like K. H. Scheer and Walter Ernsting doing that shit, or Garth Nix, who you'd expect to be able to really take the piss out of people. Maybe I haven't read the right interviews.

>>87102520
nice

>>87103864
underrated

>>87114942

Tacitus was a faggot

>>87108253
>people struggling with morality is the same as moral reletivism

well I guess Dostoevsky was a moral relativist then

>>87114942
>LGBT are a mass rebellion version of Caligula.

i really need to know what you meant by this

>>87102431
Says the writer who's final conflict is between some dead blue guy and his army of soulless puppets vs a motley crew of misfits and eunuchs

>>87115217
The show isn't following the books and regarding the white walkers it never has you fag

>>87110837

>dad is a fantasy die hard
>pretty plebby but whatever I love him
>both read asoiaf when I was a teen
>still bond over it and shit u know
>tfw the endless satisfaction I get from screenshotting grrrms agonising blog posts and sending them to him who is constantly triggered at hilariously autistic levels

>>87113590
>>87113742
He did those long before he started LOTR.

>>87115735
He begun creating his fantasy world in WWI trenches iirc

File: 1433731019945.png (281KB, 589x843px) Image search: [Google]

281KB, 589x843px

>TFW I started reading the Black Company books because nerds recommended them to me because I had been playing the electronic computer videogame about running a mercenary company called Battle Brothers
>TFW I haven't heard taxes brought up once and I'm already in book 3
CRUISIN' FOR A QUIBBLIN'

Not super wild about them because it feels like the writer is flying by the seat of his pants too often and it's getting increasingly high fantasy schlock and not grubby mercenaries doing grubby things but what the hell.

>>87113742
his son drew the map jackass

>>87104987
Why do all fantasy writers love having initials?

>>87113511
Tolkein spawned an entire genre. Almost every western fantasy writer since Tolkien, even including some of his contemporaries like CS Lewis, was influenced by or borrowed from Tolkien. GRRM himself, like all western fantasy lovers, is a massive Tolkien fan. I don't think you could ever convince him to say that he even comes close to Tolkien. Only that he has a different take on fantasy.

Also, although I love the ASOIAF books, GRRM heavily pads his writing. So many unnecessary passages describing food, sex, or literal shit. There are also the "pointless" storylines, which are pure filler because GRRM needs Arya and Dany's dragons to be old enough to go back to Westeros, but he's unable to put in a timeskip to make that happen (something he's publicly said he regrets). Most of Dany's chapters in ADWD are worthless filler. Doran Martell's "master plan"? Went nowhere, waste of pages. "Aegon Targaryen", aka "Young Griff", aka "Whatever Blackfyre"? Who give a shit, also going nowhere.

>>87116151
Because of JRR Tolkien and to a lesser extent CS Lewis

>>87109421
whoa!, slow down there reddit

>>87111184
eddardo starku

>>87102431
>the trope that he sort of established—the idea of the Dark Lord and his Evil Minions

You mean the trope Tolkien took from The Bible'?

>>87116385
God's not real Morty. Gotta tear that bandaid off quick.

Tolkien was top tier at worldbuilding but holy FUCK his prose is atrocious. Some of the worst prose in the entirety of Western literature.

>>87116385
No. He's talking specifically about the "high fantasy genre", which comes entirely from Tolkien. Obviously the basis of the good vs evil narrative comes from the Bible, since Tolkien was a devout Catholic, but the way that you see this portrayed in modern fantasy comes right from him. Think of any fantasy story of any relevance in the past 50 years or so. You'll find Tolkien's fingerprints all over it. In many cases you'll find direct copies of his conception of humans, elves, dwarves, goblins/orcs, and dragons.

>>87116172
yea, tolkien totally never padded his writing with stupid songs and 5 page descriptions of landscape

fucking tolkientards

File: 880.jpg (26KB, 600x668px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 600x668px

>>87116423
>atheist referencing Rick and Morty

>>87116479
how much did tolkien adapt existing concepts for elves, dwarves, golbins, orc and dragon and how much did he invent himself?

>>87116479
elves, dwarves, goblins, and dragons all existed before tolkien. please stop talking out of your ass.

>>87116439
>but holy FUCK his prose is atrocious
It's strange because he could write decent prose. The Hobbit is really pleasant to read. But then LOTR and the Silmarillion are these incredibly dry, dense texts. It's weird.

>>87116481
I like GRRM and Tolkien. I'm not saying Tolkien never padded his writing. But at the same time Tolkien put a level of love and borderline obsession into his work that GRRM never comes close to.

>>87116544
I'm not saying he invented the concept, only that his interpretation of those concepts is the standard in western fantasy.

>>87102431
but that makes no sense
he literally has the white walkers as the "evil minions"

>>87109213
>>87110697
Fucking simpletons. It's the Tywin part that's mind-boggling, not Shae.

>>87110447
>European mythology is based on good and evil because of the essential role Christianity plays in it

Do Americans really believe Europe is only 2000 years old? Most legends and myths are older than the kike on a stick.

>>87116595

He's saying that every writer after Tolkien was shit and he's the only other one worthy of standing beside him.

>>87116595
Why are you so sure the white walkers are in fact evil, anon?

>>87116726
>Do Americans really believe Europe is only 2000 years old?
Yes

t. american

>>87103311
>All he ever sid was that Tolkien didn't write about realistic people, but wrote a mythology.
But that's wrong. The Hobbit and LotR about about the blending of contemporary, ordinary people (the hobbits) and traditional mythological figures, actually from a variety of different heroic epochs. You've got the late medieval Gondorians and the earlier Dark Age Scandinavian Rohirrim. But hobbits are explicitly post-industrial British people somehow inserted into a fantasy world.

>>87116577
>I like GRRM and Tolkien. I'm not saying Tolkien never padded his writing. But at the same time Tolkien put a level of love and borderline obsession into his work that GRRM never comes close to.

that's just complete bullshit. there is like 1500 characters and hundreds of houses in asoiaf and almost all of them have some type of history to them, grrm is completely autistic about character history. that is a lot of work, and throughout the books he's been autistic about keeping the history of those characters and houses consistent. that's not easy. tolkein was autistic about world building, but a lot of it is vague thrown together half finished ideas. grrm does plenty of world building and history too, but it's not on the same level of tolkien. tolkien went all the way back in time to fucking gods creating the world, grrm will never do anything like that.

I like the hobbit more than lord of the rings

>>87102520
should end on this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpVT1lOM8nw

>>87117082
well, that's because it's a better book

>>87109213
>>87110697
Wa saying that it was completely our of character for Tywin, he always seemed most self-restrained in everything, sho why the hell would he go with his son's former whore all of a sudden?

>>87117160
>Wa saying that it was completely our of character for Tywin

not really, he always enjoyed sadistically torturing tyrion. assigning him to look after the sewers, calling him an unwanted monster etc.

The actor who portrayed Tywin was really good, he would always give a little quick smile while abusing Tyrion. He really understood the character.

>>87117160
it wasn't out of character. tywin was exactly like tyrion, it's kind of hidden in the books but it's implied that when tywin was aerys hand of the king he used to use the hidden passages under the tower of the hand to go a brothel

File: image.gif (2MB, 400x270px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 400x270px

>>87102520
Holy fuck I'm crying

>>87102658
How can someone be this wrong?

>>87102520
Bravo

File: 1429759454882.jpg (54KB, 500x411px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 500x411px

Are there any genuinely good medieval fantasy series or is it all just mindless drivel?

>>87108518
OOH WINE

>>87115206
Its loads of depravity and heresy distributed in a collection of people instead of just one, Caligula.
I really want to know what Techfags are represented by.

File: dx1es1.jpg (15KB, 355x439px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 355x439px

GODS WAS I STRONG THEN

>>87110447
I don't believe George would disagree. I think he just wanted to try to do a different thing.

File: 1503959033362.jpg (36KB, 221x246px) Image search: [Google]

36KB, 221x246px

>>87116172
>loves Tolkien
>criticizes GRRM for padding his stories

>>87116172
>Tolkein spawned an entire genre

>plebs actually believe fantasy started with Tolkien
lel

File: desu.jpg (255KB, 1052x789px) Image search: [Google]

255KB, 1052x789px

>>87102431

File: 1474238678893.gif (2MB, 238x178px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 238x178px

>>87102520

>>87117298
Oh, well, if that's the case, it might be then
>>87117160
if that would be the reason, why the day before tyrian's planned execution tho? was he planning to whisper that to Tyrion's before they cut his head or something?

>>87117254
ah shit, last line of >>87118858 meant for you

>>87111100
those "garbage" books you listed are considered masterpieces outside of /lit/ as well, so perhaps you're the contrarian. it's totally fine that you didn't click with those books but I find it hard to believe that you feel so negatively about them, and can't appreciate them even a little

>>87104197
Don't forget ser rodrik