>Ned was an idiot Why? Because he told Cersei he knew she

>>86907260
>His only mistakes ever were trusting Littlefinger,
Funny thing, he was never going to trust him until Cat told him to. Prior to that he didn't trust him.

He was also never going to send Jon to the Wall but psycho Cst forced him to.

>>86907260
He didn't know what he was getting into. Robert dying was orchestrated by Cersei, and Lysa Tully warned him that the king was in danger from the beginning.

Ned's biggest mistake was not realising how deep the shitpuddle went, and failing to recognise the real threat the Lannisters posed all along.

>>86907628
Lannisters weren't even the real threat. It was Baelish. Ned could've dealt with the Lannisters but Baelish selling him out sealed his fate. Also it's implied in the books he might have been the one to tell Joffrey to execute Ned. Joffrey was a sadist retard but he rarely went against his mother like that. The night prior to Ned's death, Baelish begs Cersei to give him Sansa.

>>86907260
Ned was an honourable man,he wanted nothing to do with the killing of children, who at the time and to his knowledge had the support of the king, his brother and the city watch. Robert died, so he escalated his plan, in the books littlefinger was supposed to send a message to renly to stay and help but he didn't, he also paid the guard to stay with cersei.

>>86907751
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Don't you miss when Baelish was actually doing shit, instead of just leering in the corner like a dollar-store pervert though.

>>86907920
>in the books littlefinger was supposed to send a message to renly to stay and help but he didn't,
Oh so that's why he left. Fucking Littledick.

>>86907935
Showrunners have no clue what to do with the smart characters now that the books are done. D&D can't write smart characters without it coming off cheesy as fuck. Just look at Tyrion's stagnant state.

>>86907972
>>86907751
That's not true. Renly left before Littlefinger was asked to send a message because he disagreed with Ned about the throne, Renly wanted to just take it from Joffrey and Ned refused. Littlefinger had nothing to do with Renly's betrayal.

>>86908040
It's sad but true. I think it's still watchable, but S6 and s1 are like entirely different TV shows. I'm not really sure what anyone was expecting, D&D are alright writers but they can't compare to the amount of sheer time and effort that old, filthy train-driver looking piece of shit put into crafting the dialogue and plot.

>>86908052
it has been a while since i read the book, at the very least i'm sure he watches renly leave as he changes his mind about asking for help.

>>86908145
I just read the book. The sequence of events is:
>Ned learns about Joffrey being Jaime's son
>Ned tells Cersei to leave the city
>Robert comes back, dying
>Renly tells Ned to just take the throne and deal with Joffrey later
>Ned says no but still expects Renly to help him
>A billion Lannister guards come into the city
>Ned tells Littlefinger to tell Renly to come talk to him
>Littlefinger says Renly left that morning, Ned is angry that Renly abandoned him
Honestly Renly had more sense than Ned, and he got stabbed to death by a demon fetus.

>>86908258
Renly was right there. Ned should've acted faster and put the kids in captivity as he took the throne with Barristan's and Stormlord's help. Ned was way too traumatized by Elia's kids.

>>86908258
yeah well nobody expected the cold and honourable Stannis to use black magic against his own brother.

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Ned wasn't stupid, he just wasn't prepared for Southron politics. In the north he was so well respected that there was no dissension or internal turmoil, even the people who hated him (e.g. Lady Dustin) didn't dare do anything, and Roose kept a quiet land too. All the factional disputes such as Lady Hornwood or the Umber inheritance didn't pop up until after his death (although desu they were caused by deaths during the WoT5K). From what you see of his rulings his word was law to his vassals but he was always honorable and ensured they at least felt like their counsel was being heard.

He built the Stark family up from one man and a celibate brother to a healthy size after Rob's Rebellion, and had good political relations with pretty much every noble house in Westeros. The Daynes loved him although he was involved in the death of the finest knight and member of their dynasty they ever had. Doran's and Dorne's vengeance is specifically against Lannisters. No one but grew-up-half-the-world-away-with-a-lunatic-teaching-her Daenerys ever talks about Ned as one of the Usurper's dogs. Even those who hate him respected him. All this and he's only like 32.

Ned Stark was a big deal, and an excellent ruler and leader.

>>86908495
This. Mah nigga Ned is based.

>>86908495
what helped with that is he always kept a spare seat at his table and everyday someone new could come and dine with the lord, stable boys, septas, visiting lords, they all shared a meal in winterfell next to the warden of the north and were all listened to in isolation. combined with the fact he won the war for robert, when he spoke people listened.

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>>86907260
>a man who despite his words had given him every reason to trust him,

AKA he literally told him not to trust him

>>86908495
I agree with most of this but trusting littlefinger was pretty fucking stupid by any estimation.
I guess you could say he trusts him because he thinks that littlefinger isn't powerful enough to get away with betraying him, but that rationale goes out the window as soon as robert dies and he goes begging to him for help with the goldcloaks.

>>86908685
But was he supposed to trust him when he said don't trust me?

>>86908495
Another thing I remembered:

- Jon Arryn called his banners when the Mad King demanded him and Robert's heads, despite knowing what happened at Duskendale. Ned made friends, it's his best quality, and something Tywin Lannister could never do. With Ned, although the military might of the North has been smashed, people are still willing to die to save his daughter - the Ned's little girl. Tywin's kids all hate him thanks to his pisspoor parenting skills. As soon as one of them offs him, it all goes to shit thanks to him spawning three children who clearly have issues. All this could have been stopped if he remarried after Joanna so he had an actual heir, but that's the one place 'politically savvy' Tywin wasn't able to make himself go, and his dynasty's paying the penalty for it. Ned's 'naivety' is actually just the long con.

>>86907341
Jon WANTED to go to the wall even though multiple people tried talking him out of it.

>>86909004
Never understood why Tywin didn't just make more kids. Guy seemed hypercompetent at everything (besides raising his kids), surely he should've figured out his only way to get a decent heir was to produce a new one. Only alternative to that is banking everything on somehow contriving a situation that made Jamie both viable and willing again.

>>86909084
Jon wanted to go because of a lifetime of isolation due to Cat. Ned was going to stop him from joining the Watch. Later he recalls having broken Lyanna's promise.

>>86908131
Isn't Martin a producer?
He should be the final authority this all goes through, but idk how often they actually utilize him

>>86909191
He is, but it seems like he's really dividing his time these days. I reckon he's probably given the go-ahead on general plot points, but I feel like he probably doesn't have time to look over the actual script drafts whilst he's trying on hats.

>>86908913
I think a reason behind him trusting Littlefinger is that his wife trusted him, and he trusted her judgement, which is sweet if naive.

Also, he had helped him when she came to King's Landing, and in a sea of Lannister supporters, its understandable he'd latch onto someone he thought genuine.

It was a bit foolish though. Ned's main mistake was trusting that others were honorable like him.

>>86909151
Partially plot reasons by Martin, I assume, but also he loved Joanna. It's his biggest flaw but also his most humanising element.

(although I'm not sure how that lines up with the whoring it's suggested he did as King's Hand)

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>>86909084
>Jamie appeared to be teasing him and making fun of him for wanting to go to the wall
>realise he wasnt fucking with him but warning him to maybe reconsider

>>86909366
a man has needs, he wouldn't father another son. besides he had Jaime, he didn't need another heir.

>>86909601
>Jaime
>Heir

Hello Aerys here, pls be my Kingsguard, totally not trying to cuck your father

>>86909692
Tywin probably figured he could worm Jaime out of the Kingsguard at some point.

>>86909004
Jon Arryn was like their adoptive father tho.

>>86909934
That's what tyrion's trial was all about. Getting Jaime on board.

I think Ned just didn't realize what he was getting into. He went in thinking there was a murder conspiracy somewhere in Kings Landing with a culprit somewhere he could expose.

He didn't realize he was in a lions den with corruption everywhere and multiple people eyeing the throne. There are more wolves in sheeps clothing than actual sheep in the flock. Jon Arryn's death was just a spillover, one of the first casualties of all the madness.

He didn't realize that, he was investigating the flock trying to figure out who's a wolf, thinking the sheep would just flock to his side. Tyrion who came after him knew it was just a den of corruption and played the game.