Is James Cameron right? >“All of the self-congratulatory

He's fucking wrong. He's basically saying that Wonder Woman was too beautiful, too wholesome and too feminine-like to be considered a strong female role model for women.

>>86849232
he infers that she is a Mary Sue.

>>86849371

But she inst.

>>86849232
Has he seen Gal Gadot?

>>86849412
She does no wrong entire life, destroys a church like the jews are doing in Europe now and is a god.

>>86849412
She had no flaws other than being naive.

He's wrong, Wonder Woman is a female hero done right. I liked the movie but I'm liking the salty tears it's causing even more

>>86849471
>>86849489

She was naive and dumb as fuck, needing a man to teach her better not only about her mission but human nature in general, and she got so dependent on this man she started to desire his cum deep inside her. In the end is the man that saves the day and all she can do is avenge his death, because there's no victory to her mission.

BASED cameron

>unironically watching capeshit

>>86849232
She's a feminist mary sue, its boring writing. Linda Hamilton was both hot and believable as a total badass. Gal looks like a joke, acts like a joke, and was written like a joke

>>86849640

There was nothing feminist about the character. She was feminine, not feminist.

>>86849550
>done right
>a dead eyed fish face with no lines because the director knows she couldn't deliver them, and no flaws because the audience couldn't handle them
Fascinating

>plugs his own movie
>not Alien
Classic Cameron

>>86849640
And apparently people forgot how Sarah Connor was in Terminator 1. She wasn't le badass stronk character, she became one via character development.

>>86849699
>no flaws
>has to be lead around by a man like a fucking child
Stick to baby grewt

>>86849489
>She had no flaws other than being naive.
So, she had flaws. She's fooled by the main guy for the whole movie and she breaks down before getting it together and fight back at the end.
Of course she's beautiful, sympathethic, strong, etc. She's a fucking superhero.
You guys obviously don't know what a Mary Sue is and it's just become a buzzword to use whenever you feel threatened in your fragile masculinity by a fictional character.

>>86849683
>LE STRONK GURRRL POWURR ONLY LE MEN CAUSE LE WARS
>b-bu-but i-its not f-feminist if she's my kawaii waifuuu uguuu
seek help degenerate

>>86849699
>no lines (...) no flaws
Did you even watch the movie?

>>86849737
her being dumb about everything just makes you fags go "awwww CUTE", and when she isn't like that in modern times she has no personality, so not a flaw. It is like saying a child's innocence is a flaw, when it's the cynical world that is wrong.

>>86849412
She's literally in no danger the entire movie and any time it seems like she might be in trouble her incredibly vague and conveniently-timed set of superpowers develops to prevent any harm to her. Also she literally says that she saved the day with love at the end. How much more Mary Sue can you get?

>>86849792
>ONLY LE MEN CAUSE LE WARS

Dats true tho.

Nah, I don't really agree with him at all. If she's an objectified icon, so is Superman; the entire premise of a superhero is an idealised version of a human being.

That said, the criticism towards him online is so entirely ridiculous, claiming that he's "mansplaining" female empowerment or that the fact that his relationship with Linda Hamilton wasn't a good one. It's ad hominem, plain and simple, ideas should be judged based on their own merits and not by who's saying them.

>>86849640
>Linda Hamilton
>hot
Go to bed, Jim

>>86849471
>a church like the jews are doing in Europe now and is a god.
literally anti-christ behavior

>>86849780
>Of course she's beautiful, sympathethic, strong, etc. She's a fucking superhero.
Not him but that's a great argument for why capeshit is always godawful dreck for the mentally disabled: how could a grown man possibly find those types of characters or their stories interesting? It can only slightly work if they are essentially removed from the story ala the new tick

How many days till Avatar 2, pham?

>>86849567
Cameron is likely referencing her first heroic scene where she struts into battle field in a mini skirt. They should've done a costume progression like captain America.

>>86849184
>self-congratulatory back-patting
>says the guy who did Avatar
Just stick to making movies.

I wonder what he feels about Man of Steel

Only Hollywood cares that much about the Wonder Woman movie

>>86849854
Almost like comicbooks weren't meant for 30 year old except american splendor which is literally the only good comic movie

>>86849232
How in hell a superhero can be a role model? It's just a fantasy, never gonna happen in real life.

>>86849865
>a mini skirt
Yeah, what the fuck were those Greeks and Romans thinking, going into battlefield in mini skirts!

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>>86849184
>She’s an objectified icon

So was Neytiri. It's hard to think of a more objectified icon than the Pocahontas myth.

>HURR DURR POCAHONTAS WAS REAL

Almost certainly a fabrication by John Smith.

Linda's transformation from Terminator to T2 was the most effort any woman has ever put into an acting gig.

>>86849906
That's a retarded question, a story doesn't have to be grounded in reality for you to connect with the ideals it espouses.

Except Sarah Connor was literally pandering to a fetish, so it's still objectified if we're using the same criteria.

>Is James Cameron right?

why would you even ask this? of course he is

>>86849854
It's no different than classic action movie heroes, like Arnold's and Sly's in the 80s. I mean, what is Conan if not a male power fantasy, in the same way Wonder Woman is a female one?
Now, are you gonna say that Conan is for the mentally disabled?

>>86849946

>Except Sarah Connor was literally pandering to a fetish

Mother fuckers...?

>>86849946
Wot fetish? She was good in the first one

>>86849830
>being dumb and knowing nothing about the world is not a flaw
Imagine being this dense

>wonder woman is not as good as the best female character in action movies
Maybe, she's still great though, just look at the contrarians here at /tv/ getting triggered and shit

>>86849780
This has more to do with DC superheroes, they're all literally gods.

>>86849232
If you're looking for role models in fictional works, you need to grow the fuck up.
For kids, it's just a typical role model. How is she any different to any male heroe that also is too beautiful, too wholesome and too masculine?

>>86849989
>they're all literally gods
You mean like Batman, and unlike Thor?

>>86849906
I don't get it either. When I was a kid I watched/read X-Men, Spider-Man, and Batman because it was fun. Just like I watched r rated movies and porn etc as a kid. Not FUN in the "haha peepee poopoo dance off bro Beyonce xD" sense. I mean fun as in entertaining. Superheroes never built up my character or made the world less cruel. Only kikes and their shills will tell you this shit builds a person.

>>86849986
Yup. Rey and Khaleesi are great too.

>>86849737

The best scene in the movie is her telling Steve to fuck off while she goes charging into No Man's Land. You're missing the point here

>>86849964
>>86849966
Tough, rough, sweaty women are a pretty common.

>>86850104
She wasn't any of that in T1. She was a complete (and believable) damsel in T1, Reese did all the heavy lifting until the end.

>>86849911
Not shrapnel that's for sure.

>>86849961
Conan is actually a good movie. But Conan wasn't a good character. And id say most 80s action movies were pretty shit, including most of arnie and slys. Wonderwoman is a bad character in bad disney capeshit

>>86850088
The thing is that it works both ways. She's naive and learns a lot of things from the characters and situations around her (it's basically a coming of age movie, actually), but she also brings something along with her, and teaches something to those around her. It's just pretty basic storytelling, and it's foolproof.

>>86849969
She has an idealized version of the world, and it's the world that fails to meet HER standards, and we're told this many times

So not a flaw. The entire world is a flaw compared to her instead.

>>86850172
>But Conan wasn't a good character. And id say most 80s action movies were pretty shit, including most of arnie and slys.
Allright pal. I just wanted to confirm your opinions were shit. Now we can move on.

>>86850049
Children usually aren't too self aware of who or what they're being influenced . Usually little boys like wolverine because they think he's cool. Little boys look up to what they think is cool. And that's fine but that type of behavior shouldn't progress into adulthood the way it does for so many of these weird fucks

>>86850139
Well, she was also carrying a sword and a shield.
Her costume is consistent with her origin, and was never used as an excuse to show some cheesecake.

>>86849932
Fact: indians loved the BWC and thanked their superiors for colonizing them.

>>86850218
Whatever helps you rationalize watching capeshit with the plotlines literally cut out as to not confuse the chinks. lel

>>86849184
He sounds like a cuck leftie here.

>>86849780
Now explain how the flaws you just mentioned aren't representative of her naivety

>>86849232
>He's fucking wrong. He's basically saying that Wonder Woman was too beautiful, too wholesome and too feminine-like to be considered a strong female role model for women.

Yeah, Jim's off the mark here. Sarah in T2 dehumanizes herself in the pursuit of her goal and becomes a "strong woman" by effectively turning herself into a man, she literally destroys her femininity so she isn't "weak".

I guess if he was strictly talking about T1 Sarah I could see a point. Ripley in Aliens and Lindsey in the Abyss both fit what he's saying better too. The less said about True Lies and Avatar the better though.

Jim should have just said the movie is mediocre and remind fags that "strong female characters" have been around for decades, including Wonder Woman, so Hollywood can stop pretending the movie was pionering anything.

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>>86849184
Patty Jenkins responded.

>>86850340
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

>>86850340
Good answer really. Nails it.

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>>86850340
>icon
>literally just superman with tits
laughing so hard
>inb4 some capeshit loser tries to argue wonder woman isn't just fucking superman

>>86850266
I don't need to rationalize anything. I either enjoy a movie or don't. You can also enjoy rock and roll or pop music, along with classical.

>>86849842
It is possible that he doesn't like Superman either for the same reason.

>>86850299
Where did I say they weren't?

Can we off this ride

>>86850297
Who would've guessed? I mean, I certainly didn't see that coming after watching Avatar!

>>86850377
Nails what? The fact his opinion is invalid because he's a man only when he disagrees with a woman? Or the fact the whole idea of a correct portrayal of women is just one big fucking heap of shit where nobody wins?

>>86850340
>James Cameron can't understand Wonder Woman because he's a man
>/tv/ will defend this and say Wonder Woman/Patty Jenkins don't push a feminist agenda

what have we become

>>86850387
>>literally just superman with tits
If we're going by DCEU standards, I'd say Superman is Wonder Woman without balls.

>>86850340
Based.

>>86849184
>being a terrible mother is a good thing

>>86850478

>I'd say Superman is Wonder Woman without balls.

That has always been the case.

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>>86850478
yass

>>86850470
>what have we become
pinkpilled

>>86850340
So Wonder Woman is an icon of women everywhere, and pats ideal form of "strong woman" is a psychopathic murderer. If this is what women celebrate and equate to being empowering, they're fucked in the heads more ways than sundown

>>86850488
He fucked up thinking WW is a realistic character when in fact she's an idealized power fantasy.

>>86850466
She's not saying his opinion is invalid, she's saying his opinion is wrong, and she explains why. The explanation is correct.

Is it the /co/ influence that is making this thread so god awful or is there some other shit at play

>>86850554
lol

>>86850542
>power fantasy still revolves around men pulling the strings
pottery

>>86850470
At least we're not /pol/tards.

>>86850555
It's people being contrarian because alt-right faggots became annoying and invasive.

>>86850555
Well /co/ is sjw territory and the sjws are the ones triggered by cameron, so you do the math.

>>86850302
Don't diss True Lies you fucking nigger

>>86849780
You can assume being naive was just a phase of never seeing the real world, in the superman vs batman she no longer looks retarded and naive, so yeah she eventually evolves to full marie sue.

>>86850466
>Or the fact the whole idea of a correct portrayal of women is just one big fucking heap of shit where nobody wins?
It's almost as if you failed to understand her point. She's saying there's not one unique right way to portray women just like there's not one unique right way to portay men. Women should be able to be portrayed in as many different ways as men are. Saying that women should only be gritty and tough to be heroic, like Cameron implies, is just as bad as saying they should be delicate and weak. You should be able to prortray any kind of female character you want, just like you're able to portray any kind of male character you want.

It's funny how the reactionary attitude towards women of many posters here is actually making them side with a guy who is preaching the "strong woman" stereotype instead of a lady that's saying that stereotype is bullshit.

>>86850565
Presented in a villainous role, yes.

>>86850488
It's a character flaw, dumbass. He even says it after "she was troubled".

>>86850340
so basically the old you can't understand us cuz you ain't us shtick

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Wonder Woman doesn't need to be some ugly cuntish bitch with mental problems to be strong female character. She can be beautiful, loving and gentle, and be a strong female character BECAUSE OF IT.

Since when woman have to become hard as man to be taken seriously? That's fucked up.

Anyone who believes based Jim is in the wrong here needs to go the fuck back to r/movies and stay there

Both of them are wrong

Female characters should be allowed to be feminine, and Wonder Woman was just a worthless cashgrab that appeals to dumb people that go on movie dates, like Titanic

>>86850618
>what are some movies women will never understand

>>86850603
god forbid your powerful intellect sides with them

>>86850597
I think True Lies is close to if not Cameron's worst movie, it blows.

And the plot grinding to a complete halt for half an hour for Arnold to abuse his ugly wife is a big part of why it's bad.

>>86850302
>The less said about True Lies

What the fuck could you have to say against True Lies?

>>86850638
So it's a joke?

>>86850677
>j-just a meme you guys lol

>>86850524
>Wonder Woman sees something wrong going on
>Does something about it.

>Superman sees something wrong going on
>Goes to ask a priest whether he should do something about it or not

>Wonder Woman's mom tells her she shouldn't help men
>Wonder Woman does it anyway 'cause she feels it's right

>Superman's dad and mom tell him not to help men
>He doesn't even save his dad

If anything, you guys should be shitting on Snyder for making such a fucking beta out of

>>86850603
>She's saying there's not one unique right way to portray women just like there's not one unique right way to portay men.
Yet wonder woman, who's the definitive stereotype of an empowered woman, is to be praised?

>>86850302
>Sarah in T2 dehumanizes herself in the pursuit of her goal and becomes a "strong woman" by effectively turning herself into a man, she literally destroys her femininity so she isn't "weak".

That's exactly what makes her character interesting though. Her being a strong womyn isn't portrayed as this awesome thing, she's clearly broken by it.

>>86850692
Snyderposting is ironic anon. Nobody likes his retarded vision.

Wonder Woman was hardly progressive anyway

>falls in love with the first white male she sees

>betrays her own native culture for the white male's culture and beliefs

>native women can only breakthrough if they shack up with a white male

it was garbage

>>86850340
Based Patty, MCUcks can't catch a break these days

>>86850600
>she eventually evolves to full marie sue
Well, that's Snyder and Terrio's fault. Jenkins and Heinberg did a good job in their movie.

>>86850651

hey, go kill yourself

This guy has had 5 divorces


He doesn't know shit about women.

>>86850554
>She's not saying his opinion is invalid

She literally starts her argument by saying that Cameron can't understand why WW is great because he is not a woman.

Do women really think that people can't understand a character that isn't literally "you"?

>>86850724
This but unironically.

>>86850701
>titude towards wo
Just like there's tons stereotypes of powerful men being praised, yes. She's defending women's right to have one of those characters, while having other types of characters as well. Don't forget she also directed Monster.

>>86850773
>Do women really think that people can't understand a character that isn't literally "you"?
Are you asking this sarcastically?

>>86850724
The feminist narrative is only pushed by fat feminist who tried to cash on WW's success and Disney shills on /tv/ trying to explain away why the movie cucked the competition box office, critics and audience wise. Anyone who has seen the movie knows the movie isn't feminist at all

Both Cameron and the director are right.

Wonder Woman really was overblown in it's celebration of itself. Strong women can be complex or just superheroes that can fuck people up

>>86850794
And she thinks her movie is empowering to women? Isn't that the movie about that murdering mother played by charlize theron?

>>86850692

Superman was a good obedient son and a good and respectful man.

Even in comics Superman was always more mindful of the status quo than Wonder Woman or Batman. That's why Wonder Woman and Batman had a sort of understanding in that way. They're the rule breakers, although Wonder Woman sometimes tend to push things to far even for Batman, since she's a meta and Batman's paranoia against metas makes him weary of her somewhat.

>>86850595
>sjws are the ones triggered by cameron
>A man claiming that women should fit the "strong woman who needs no man" stereotype and who directed fucking Avatar

Do you guys ever try to actually think things through, or just react to buzzwords?

>>86849567

this

proves how retarded people are that it's considered some huge moment in feminist cinema by both fans and haters just because thats what the marketing says when Diana has almost no agency the entire movie and the only reason she triumphs at the end is because of something she didnt have any control over and because the writers forgot the themes of the movie up until that moment

>>86850340

that would be a good response of Diana ever solves her problems with compassion or any other method other than using extreme violence to slaughter conscripted teenagers she could take out non-lethally

>>86850826
>Wonder Woman really was overblown in it's celebration of itself. Strong women can be complex or just superheroes that can fuck people up
I agree.

>>86850779
It really wasnt a progressive movie by any stretch. Anyone claiming otherwise was fooled by the marketing

>>86850738
Are you telling me she was always gonna remain naive and retarded in Jenkins and Heinberg movies?
There was already a movie showing her character, it was implied that she was gonna become that, and since its not a retcon of sny kind, having a flawed marie sue character in one movie, makes them a marie sue on every movie that takes part in the same universe.

You can't just go lLALALALALA shes not a marie sue in this movie even tho she becomes one in a few years!

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>>86849184
A MAN HAS OPINION?!?

>>86850843
Go on Patty Jenkins' tweet and see who the people going "yass queen slay" and "jim mansplainer" are

>>86850838
>Isn't that the movie about that murdering mother
It's not a murdering mother, it's a murdering lesbian prostitute.
And I don't know if she ever used the word "empowering". What she's basically saying is that women should have the same variety of characters than men are. You have movies with male protagonists about flawless heroes, irredeemable assholes and everything inbetween. She's claiming women should be able to do so as well.

>>86850878
but anon my daughter wants to dress like wonder women, this has never happened in the history of mankind!

I love seeing strong female role models in movies. I really do. And to make this happen, all they have to not be completly fucking useless for the entire show/movie. Examples"

>Ripley
>The agent from Zero Dark Thirty
>Charlize Theron in fucking anything
>Emily Blunt in Edge of Tomorrow

Plus, 9 times out of 10, the feminist icon is probably just a minor character.
>Ben Affleck's bland bitch of a GF in Armageddon. Fucking cries all movie.
>Meanwhile Watts is a mid-40s space shuttle pilot and gets like 10 lines.

>>86850363
>>86850377
>>86850483
>>86850730
This was already posted DickCucks

>according to cameron WW wasn't "yasss queen slay" enough
/tv/ will never recover

>>86850861
>Diana ever solves her problems with compassion or any other method other than using extreme violence to slaughter conscripted teenagers she could take out non-lethally
God forbid she fights in a war!

On the other hand, it was so cool when Superman and Zod crushed an entire city, and Superman killed Zod at the end. It really brought home the concept that Superman is all about hope!

>JC
>being wrong

>>86850883
>Are you telling me she was always gonna remain naive and retarded in Jenkins and Heinberg movies?
I'm not telling you anything until we see what they do with her next. So far we can only talk about what we've got. Anything else is not fact but mere speculation.

>>86850738
>>86850883
>>86850600

How the fuck was she Mary Sue in BvS? She became a tired and pessimistic woman worn out thanks to the ages of nothing ever improving despite Steve's sacrifice.

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>>86849184
Based Destroyer of Capeshit.

>>86850843
Is that what he is implying? I thought it was the fact they're just mimicking men and he was calling them out on the hypocrisy.

How can you honestly not see his characters, and some of the others he praised, are more inline and empowering for women than some stupid stereotype like WW? Sarah Connor evolves and changes when she's placed in the same situation a man is, becoming stronger and being empowered. That's true equality and character depth that break stereotypes. Meanwhile WW promotes the belief you aren't special unless you're born that way, and goes so far as to copy the entire how-to on creating generic, stereotypical fanwank that's been going on for decades, then parading it as if it were the second coming of christ

>>86850887
Yes, and the people here going "go Jim", "sjw BTFO" are just as retarded as those.
I'm judging Jenkins and Cameron for what they say and not for other people's comments. It's hilarious how both sides simply react to whether the one talking is a man or a woman and not to what they're actually saying.

>>86850897
>She's claiming women should be able to do so as well.
So there has never been any movie with characters that weren't a stereotype of a woman in any role?

Daily reminder that James Cameron praised Zack Snyder. That man has never been wrong

>>86851011
And I'm saying that sjws are against
Cameron, unlike you implied

>>86850975
I'm not saying she was. I'm saying any faults they see in BvS have nothing to do with the director of the Wonder Woman movie, and therefore irrelevant to this discussion which is about the WW film.

>>86851001

>I thought it was the fact they're just mimicking men and he was calling them out on the hypocrisy.

No, dumbshit.

Cameron said that Wonder Woman wasn't a true feminist icon because she is a objectified role model of what the men in Hollywood think women are supposed to be like: which is to be beautiful, have little character flaws and not have much struggle.

Basically, he's saying that she sucks as a feminist icon because she costing on her good looks instead of her strength of character, which he sees as woman being tough and gritty.

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It's telling that people in this thread have to bring up Man of Steel out of nowhere and twist its narrative to defend Wonder Woman. Guess her movie can't stand on its own merits.

>>86851097
you have a nice ass Anon

>>86851097
Nice try Snydercuck.

So this is what getting rid of the CLASSICS looks like. The industry has been rewritten as starting with WW.

>>86851001
>are more inline and empowering for women
See? This is your problem. You think there's only one type of female character that is positive and should exist. Why can't women have their power fantasy, just like men have all the time? That's Patty Jenkins point. She already made a movie with the type of character Cameron defends, she now did another movie about a different type of characters. WW doesn't promote any different message than male superheroes do, so what's the big deal? If you don't like superheroes, don't go watch a superhero film. But let women who do like that kind of stuff have their own for once.

>>86851096
But gritty is literally all about looks, and tough doesn't just mean physically.
So the fact he's a guy, calling out hollywood for pushing out unrealistic standards for women to aspire for, and instead wants them to embrace the "be proud of who you are" shit, has triggered all the sjws?

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You either agree with Cameron that for female characters to be considered strong female model they've to be ugly, problematic and tough...

Or you either agree with Jenkins that female characters can be both that and beautiful, well-adjusted and feminine and still be considered strong female models.

>>86851035
Did you even read what I wrote?

>>86849840
Only jews

>>86851040
He praised Robert Rodriguez in the very same sentence.

>>86851160

Yes, because they're trigguered by who he is, not what he is saying. They think that him as a male shouldn't voice his opinion on what should be considered a good female model.

>>86851046
What I implied is that Cameron is a sjw himself.

>>86849184
They're both kinda right in a way.

Wonder Women is a good female character by showing that women should not be ashamed of their gender.
But she shouldn't be hailed as the perfect example of a strong woman, because she lacks many relatable traits that close the gap between herself and real women.

>>86851097
You mean, just like MoS and BvS posts always have to bring up Marvel out of nowhere to defend those movies?

>>86849184
He's doesn't seem to understand that Wonder Woman isn't Sarah Conner, she's The Terminator. Chris Pine was Conner.

So now girls will stop pretending to like Aliens. Bravo.

>>86851171
>ugly, problematic and tough...

Well, Gadot checks the first two.

>>86851147
>Why can't women have their power fantasy
But they do. This isn't in dispute. I can literally google movies with females of any variety in any situation and i'll always find a mary sue character, the exact same way you do for males. And I can find almost as many that feature females not in stereotypical roles, but infact have character and depth, again the same as with males.
I can't recall the last time a stereotypical male mary-sue was paraded around as an icon of male unity, why was this the case for WW?

>>86851266
what a stupid post

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>>86851266
>Conner
>Conner

Why do people always make this mistake?

>>86851222
>They think that him as a male shouldn't voice his opinion on what should be considered a good female model.
Fuck me this literally triggers me, but i'm a beta with no spine so it's all good

Why do people care about such stupid shit?

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>>86851246

I disagree. Wonder Woman is a good fantasy for women, specially because Wonder Woman show to them that they don't need to be less feminine to be a hero. They can care about their looks, they can be open, emotional and gentle, they can want to need a man, to desire to have babies, to start a family, and all that makes them women, and still be a hero, still be strong, still be taken seriously.

Seriously, Wonder Woman is the perfect fantasy for women in our age. Women need her. Fuck, i need for women to need her. I'm tired of seeing cute chicks going bald and hating man and wanting to abort, and... fuck, i'm getting depressed...

>>86851341
Is sumfin ta do

>>86851341
Are you new to /tv/?

>>86851356
Nobody that matters takes her seriously. Remember that doggo

>>86851356
You're giving way too much credit for a flick that has already been forgotten by most normies

>>86851396

Every young confused chick that go watch Wonder Woman is another woman saved.

>>86851356
>they don't need to be less feminine to be a hero

Yeah, if they are nigh invulnerable and superstrong and have magic weapons.

>>86851432
You're breaking your mothers heart.

>>86850340
>I dont like someones opinion, so he is wrong

>>86851356
You have triggered a bunch of contrarians with your objectively correct post, good job

>>86850302
>Sarah in T2 dehumanizes herself in the pursuit of her goal and becomes a "strong woman" by effectively turning herself into a man, she literally destroys her femininity
Femininity as you describe it doesn't exist.

>>86851470
That's not what she said. She said he's wrong because he's a man.

>in order to be good, strong characters, female characters need to be bulldykes
I mean I knew /tv/ was full of fags but this is too much

>>86851287
>why was this the case for WW
Because it's the first big female led superhero film and it's been a worldwide success, despite the fact that until recently, many people (including Hollywood producers) sustained that female superheroes could never be successful.
People who try to make more than that from this movie are trying too hard and it's not the movie nor Jenkin's fault.

>>86849184
>Hollywood
>patting itself on the back
It's literally nothing new. They've been smelling thier own farts out of Chardonnay glasses for decades.

>>86851435
>if they are nigh invulnerable and superstrong and have magic weapons.
This was never an issue with male superheroes, or characters like James Bond. Why is it a problem when a girl does it?

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>>86849184
Soon

>>86851356
Except literally the only thing that makes a woman a "woman" is one chromosome and the female end of the human reproductive system.

>>86851266
The expand on that point, Wonder Woman follows the trope of creating a character that is supernatural and juxtaposing it to a normal human and their society. And then, even though the human is likely infinitely more responsible for coherent plot progression than the supernatural person, the movie isn't titled after them. She's The Terminator, The Iron Giant, Totoro, fucking Jaws too.

I think the fact he doesn't understand that premise that is so plainly obvious (even though he's a fucking film maker) and decides to make false equivalencies strictly due to two characters having vaginas is actually way more sexist than anything WW represents as a movie. Also, WW does have its problems, WW herself wasn't one of them.

>>86849184
Did anybody else hate Sarah Conner in T2? She was a cunt and her being badass was just not believable. Sarah Conner in T1 is waifu status though.

>>86849412
But she is. She outmaches everyone right from the beginning, counters no obstacles, doesn't learn new abilities, doesn't progresses or grows to be a better person, doesn't counter her fears, has no weak points, beats everyone effortlessy.
Definition of a Mary Sue.

>>86851435

Hey, man. Let them delude themselves they can be tough by just being themselves. All i want is for a girl to look at me the way Wonder Woman looked at Steve. That's it.

I took a girl to watch the movie. She cried at the end and later that night we fucked and talked about raising a family and shit afterwards, not that i ever will with this one, but the the day was nice. I feel that women nowadays need movies like that. They need to feel comfortable being woman again, in the classic sense. They're constantly bombarded by everything and everyone in social media to be either like a man or some sort of Disney's villain that hate all man, normal woman and child. So movies like Wonder Woman, where the female character and protagonist is both the hero of the story and a woman who despite whatever power or life mission she has still desire to be good looking, be hold by a man, birth a baby, start a traditional family, and so on, are a good thing.

>>86851595
Yea and the only difference between a human and monky is a few chromosomes.

>>86851621
Yeah, especially the scene where they're talking to the black guy who created skynet or whatever.

>>86851610
Good point

>>86849184
>Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon
dunno about that bruh. she was pretty hot in judgement day.

>>86851591
I'm more interested in Batgirl than Wonder Woman 2. Contrarians will pretend Gotham City isn't more interesting than whatever dumb shit WW will get caught up in next.

>>86851675
>I took a girl to watch the movie. She cried at the end and later that night we fucked and talked about raising a family and shit afterwards
This is why WW was such a success while being an upper mid-tier capeshit, if you take a date to see Wonder Woman you have good chances of getting laid. Try the same with Guardians of Reddit and you're as fucked as wearing a fedora. You may as well scream "I'M A FUCKING MANCHILD LET'S GO SEE A TALKING RACCOON MAKE POOPY JOKES" to her

>>86851583
James Bond is more of an escapist fantasy than something to strive towards.

And what makes Superman a good role model, isn't that he's powerful, handsome, and masculine.
Its that he's kind, reserved, and hopeful. He has traits that real people should have, instead of just want to have.

>>86851293
Imagine my lack of shock that Cameron is no stupider than /tv/ bc you don't understand either.

>>86850340
>I belive women can and should be EVERYTHING just like male lead characters should be.
And here you see that she is missing a point that James wanted to make.
James said that flaws are good thing. If someone is perfect he is not that intresting, no matter the gender.
I liked WW, apart from that CGI shitfest in the end, but James makes a good point.

>>86850104
That wasn't the most important thing about.
She was a MOTHER.
She did everything to protect his son.
That was the defining charecteristic of Ripley too btw. A trope that is completely devoid in Wonder Woman.

>>86851734

Batgirl will 100% be fucking awful. I can just see it. Whedon said he was inspired by the new comics where Barbara basically act like an entitled and cunty womanchild. If the movie at least focused on a fragile and resentful wheelchair-trapped Barbara trying to regain control of legs and life, maybe there'd be a good movie, but nope. Shit will be pure girl power.

>>86850297
Yup, but that isn't clearly cuck enough for the progressives.

>>86851783
>She was a MOTHER.
>She did everything to protect his son.
Did she fuck, she got herself arrested and institutionalized and left John to fend for himself, he very nearly got killed by the T-1000 as a result and only the T-800 he sent back saved him
She was so focused on stopping judgement day she almost let it kill her and her kid, Cameron is right at least when he calls her a terrible mother

>>86851739

I didn't even thought i'd be getting laid that night. The movie definitely helped me in that regard. The movie left her super emotional and craving a dick.

>>86851676
So you admit you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

>>86851854
This. She meant well but she fucked up hard, but that's why she's a good sympathetic character.

>>86851809
>"She came up, and I started getting obsessed with how a young woman could get hardcore enough to need to put on the cowl. Like, what's her damage?" he told The Hollywood Reporter. "She didn't have her parents killed in an alley. Who is this person, who decides — rather than being forced to by their childhood trauma — decides to pick up this life?" he adds. "How intense and driven that person is... I just couldn't stop thinking about it."
That sounds more interesting than your pretentious cripple dreck.

>>86851610
yeah the Amazon people are fucked up for teaching a child all that hate.

>>86851932

She did it because she wanted Batman's dick. That's it. Her father was a cop who worked with Batman, Batman was hella cool, and her father never let her do anything risky or cool. So she was infatuated with Batman and bored out of tears.

>>86851932
Its easy to want to be a hero when there's already a Batman.

>>86851147
Because women's power fantasy isn't about being the hero, but about getting the hero to fall in love with them. To find a strong, dangerous beast and tame it. That's why women's favourite movie heroes are vampires, pirates, werewolves and millionaires. You can't just switch the male and female idols because it makes the whole movie false and dissonant, and it won't click with people. These are thousands of years old archetypes that cannot be simply rewritten to push an agenda this removed from reality.

>>86851595
Seriously this. I'm tired of people conflating "strong female character" with personality traits they perceive women should have. Take Ursula of the Little Mermaid. That's a strong female character with conviction, definitive personality, and is iconic. But by the retarded concept of "femininity" the average normie spouts (about 99% of this thread) nothing about her is "feminine".

Wanna make a strong female character? Make a strong character. Then make their last chromosome an X. That's it.

>>86851814
Nothing is ever cucked enough for the progressives. Remember those rallies calling Justin Trudeau racist. Even fucking Just Trudeau is racist in their eyes.

>>86849184
I just honestly writers just suck nowadays or they're just trying to appeal to as many retards as possible. You guys are actually into film & tv so you don't buy into it. I'm like that with music, rap is garbage to me (subjective) and I prefer music that I can later analyze and pinpoint the musical theory behind it (like what scale mode a measure is in, what chord was this person aiming for with a run, etc).

Besides superheros are for little kids grown adults shouldnt be watching superhero movies. I'm also a hypocrite cause I watch fuckin anime

>>86851583
James Bond is neither superstrong nor invulnerable. The guy is a legit power fantasy because it's a normal human pulling the impossible.

>>86851750
The same type of thing you said about Superman can be said about Wonder Woman.

>>86849184
The issue is that Cameron's entire criticism is "she's not how I would do it." A character can be extremely powerful and attractive and still be compelling, just when properly handled. Those two aspects alone don't ruin a character.

I love Cameron's earlier work (can't stand Avatar), but I always roll my eyes when the guy who pushed for 3D tries to shit on other movies for aspects just because he personally wouldn't do it.

>>86851356
The point is there was nothing about kids or family or being a mother in the movie. The jews carefully avoided that, they don't want the goys having bad ideas like starting a family or having children.
>>86851675
You just linked the movie as a pavlov-reflex with fucking, you idiot. The movie was trash, and so is your taste.

>>86852097
Yeah, just like Batman. They're not any more realistic than any superhero though.

>>86851984
>She did it because she wanted Batman's dick.

Go back to bed, Bruce Timm

>>86849184
he is right

>>86849903
blade is good

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>>86852139

>The point is there was nothing about kids or family or being a mother in the movie. The jews carefully avoided that, they don't want the goys having bad ideas like starting a family or having children.

Did you miss Wonder Woman curiosity in regards to sex, how babies are made, what normal man and woman do when not having to deal with war, and so on? Wonder Woman was craving Steve's seed deeply.

I'm so tired of this bullshit. Why do people act like there aren't any strong or well written female characters when there has been for fucking decades?

>>86851854
That only makes her more realistic desu, women fuck everything up all the time.

>>86852186
Americans have a constant compulsion to pretend everything the masses consume is new and improved.

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>>86852148

You know it to be true.

>>86852142
I didn't say anything about "realism". Just the fact that Bond and yes, Batman, are legit power fantasies precisely because they are doing impossible feats while being normal humans instead of superpowered freaks/aliens/gods/whatever. If anything I'd say Batman and Bond are more "unrealistic" for that very same reason.

Why is /tv/ so triggered about Wonder Woman? It was pretty fun and it deserved the praise and success it got

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>>86850302
>I think True Lies is close to if not Cameron's worst movie, it blows.

>>86852184
That was more like how a feminazi would react to completely alien concept like being a mother. She has shown no motherly instincts towards anyone.
Her interest towards Steve was also superficial at best, like an attention whore woould react to male attention, she liked it, but it didn't really make her do anything.

>>86849932
>During her stay in England, Dutch engraver Simon van de Passe captured her likeness and recorded that she, like the artist himself, was 21 years old.

Her stay in England is a matter of public records, mate.

>>86852186
Name five female action heroes made in the 00s that are genuinely good and not bullshit SJW mary sues.

>>86849932
>Pocahontas myth.
>Almost certainly a fabrication by John Smith.
Not even Americans are this stupid m8.

>>86852298

>but it didn't really make her do anything.

They fugged, brah.

>>86852334
Did they? When? I totally don't remember that part.

>>86849932
Didn't the artist who designed Neytiri, say that Cameron's chief instruction was "people must want to fuck her?"

wtf. i like james cameron now

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>>86852396
>ever disliking Jim Cameron

>>86849184
>>“All of the self-congratulatory back-patting Hollywood’s been doing over ‘Wonder Woman’ has been so misguided,”
I could see this mindset.
>he told the outlet in an interview to promote the “Terminator 2: Judgment Day” re-release.
Oh, never mind, he's just selling me his "strong" female lead.

>>86852318
This is a leading question, because no matter what answer people give you'll claim they're bullshit SJW mary sues.

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>>86851675
>a good thing
Back to HuffingtonPost or wherever cancerous zone you came from

>>86849184
There really wasn't anything sexual abou Wonder Woman though besides her bare legs

>>86852546
You're forgetting the zika baby skull she flaunts around.

Just as a general response to the thread:
Mary sue is a criticism for children and doesn't belong in real discussion of film. It's based on trait checklists and not actual characterization, let alone real artistic accomplishment. That being said, we're talking about Cameron movies so real discussion isn't warranted.

>>86852507
So, you can't name any and went with that excuse, good.

I can actually think of one, Emily Blunt's character in Edge of Tomorrow.

>>86852318
Name 5 male action heroes made in the 00s who aren't bullshit numale pretty boys marty stu

>>86852603
The Brave One
That movie is worth 5 'good' capeshit-tier female action characters.

>>86852613
The Expendables

But I'm not sure it counts since it was a throwback to the 80s/90s action heroes.

>>86852702
It's too early to whip out the Kinos in this convo. You got to learn to keep your best cards for the final rounds.

>>86852613
Keanu in John Wick
Matt Damon in The Bourne trilogy
Gerard Butler in just about any action movie he's made in the past ten years
Karl Urban in Dredd
ching chong nip nong in The Raid

>>86851998
Eh she's still a woman and has less resources. Hopefully they show her getting battered like Daredevil. That would be intense seeing a girl have to try really hard to be a Bat.

>>86852603

Emily Blunt's character in Sicario?

>>86852592
Mary Sue isn't a checklist of traits, rather the presence of a single trait. "Were they ever in danger of failing by themselves?" If the answer is no, and it turns out they solve every problem with no repercussion, then they are a Mary Sue. Also, the reason Mary Sue's are annoying is because an absence of tension and consequence is a lack of drama, and as Aristotle put it, the opposite of drama is comedy. Therefore Mary Sue's are comical.

>>86852440
i like his movies up to titanic, but always thought he was a wanker

>>86852613
You have to give an answer first and then make that question for it to be a legit answer instead of a lame deflection, but I will entertain your request.

Tom Cruise's character in Edge of Tomorrow, for the same exact reasons of his female coprotagonist.

Hugh Jackman in Logan

Iko Uwais in The Raid

Karl Urban in Dredd

Michael Jai White in Blood and Bone

>>86852702
>The Brave One

Damn good, but that wasn't an action movie. Just because people shoot guns that doesn't make a movie "action".

>>86852947
I'll give you Urban, but Damon? Reeves? They're good, but still pretty (older) boys.
It's like saying Patrick Swayze was a manly man.

Butler is a good actor, but he was never in a good action movie character-wise.
Ching Chong is a kawai desu pretty asian boy.

>>86852507
Furiosa fails to save every pregnant girl.
Black Widow fails to have a normal, healthy sexual relationship
WW fails to save Chris Pines
Someone already mentioned Emily Blunt twice.
That's all I got

>>86853103
>being good looking is a disqualifier
I don't know what I expected responding to meme shitter.

>>86853103
>Butler is a good actor, but he was never in a good action movie character-wise.
You never asked for good action movies, just good action male leads, and Butler fits the bill.

>>86853143
>Name 5 male action heroes made in the 00s who aren't bullshit numale pretty boys marty stu
>pretty boys

>>86853177
It's clear you don't know what that means. Ching chong from the indonesian flick is an actual martial artist, and a fuck ugly one at that. Keanu is handsome but he isn't some skinny shit, he actually works out. Same for Damon. None are numale cucks, like your bitch ass.

>>86849706
>she became one via character development
which we never saw

>>86849232
Wrong. He's saying that she's not feminine ENOUGH.

What Cameron is saying is you can take a male and put him in the role of Wonder Woman and it wouldn't be any different. It'd be another fish-out-of-water super hero tale.

What makes Terminator 2 so good, and the character of Sarah Connor so good, is that it's a story about a mother learning how to be a mother and protecting her child from the dangerous outside world -- it's about a mother's love for her child. it's the kind of movie only a woman could star in because the entire story is about child rearing and traditional family roles.

Wonder Woman is about a super hero that beats people up, there's nothing inherently unique to it and it certainly doesn't make Wonder Woman's femininity a key component of the story.

>>86853177
The qualifier is "bullshit numale pretty boys marty stu", not just "pretty boy"

Even if you consider the The Raid guy as a "pretty" (really?) the character went through the wringer the movie, and needed his bro's help to barely beat the final opponent. Not a gary stu in any way or form.

>>86853336
Watch the movie, not your phone. Idiot.

>>86853414

That's not what he's saying at all, dumbfuck.

He said she was objectified and that his strong female character wasn't a beauty, but gritty and tough.

And Sarah Connor was a terrible mother that sacrificed her femininity and motherhood to fight to prevent the end of the world.

>>86849184
>promote the “Terminator 2: Judgment Day” re-release.
>say something that will get attention
None of us had a chance.

>>86853458
I've seen both she goes from not really knowing what she's doing in 1 to full on Alex Jones disciple in 2

>>86852186
Nobody, but there hasn't been a straight up female superhero film before Wonder Woman. At least not a big budget, widely released one.

James Cameron is always right

>>86852298
>. She has shown no motherly instincts towards anyone.
>The first thing she notices when she gets to London is a baby and runs to see it
>She cheers up the Scottish dude when he was feeling useless
>She feels the urge to help the people in that town when she hears about that lady's family being in trouble

You're a retard.

>>86852371
Just admit you didn't watch the movie.

>>86849184
Absolutely. Based Cameron is right again.

>>86853143
>>being good looking is a disqualifier
Seems to be for James Cameron. No wonder he pretty much only casted ugly as shit female leads in his films.

>>86854606
wut?
Supergirl

>>86853414
>it's about a mother's love for her child. it's the kind of movie only a woman could star in because the entire story is about child rearing and traditional family roles.
You change it for a father and it's the exact same movie, you fucking retard.

>>86854844
Sorry, I meant to say a good one. There's Catwoman and Electra too, of course (although those are more anti-heroes than straight superheroes).

>>86849906
Plebs like you it's why Zack Snyder gets shitted upon

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5pRYuI3etc

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>She’s an objectified icon
Well, she was created by an artist who only wanted to project his bondage into comic form, and her only fans are feminists who somehow thought she was a progressive icon and horny nerds. Wonder Woman is mainly an object of fetish projection and marketable iconography rather than an actual character, so Cameron's statement is correct.

>>86849232
They already beat me to it, but I'll say it anyway. He's saying that she's a Mary-sue.

>>86854865
You mean War of the Worlds?

>>86849184
He is just old to understand modern feminism.

>>86855029
>A 30 something year old man that has done jack shit with his life and needs for something to literally come down from the sky in order to get off his ass and finally do something with his life
I can see why so many people here like it. They feel represented and justified in their NEETness, while it also gives them some hope that someday, something will happen and they're gonna be able to show what they're really capable of.

>>86855081

It was more than just BDSM. Marston wanted boys to be into feminine and submissive women, by showing them a cool female hero who was pretty feminine and liked to be tied up and playfully tortured by bad guys, while also trying to make girls feel empowered by their femininity and submissiveness.

So it's more like, "Hey, girls, being feminine and letting me tie you up before butt-fucking you is super empowering. Trust me, i'm a psychologist and inventor."

>>86855112
>He's saying that she's a Mary-sue.
That's not what he's saying at all.

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>>86855081
This
>create a superhero blatantly based on your sexual fantasies
>add some easy feminist and WW2 propaganda so you can keep getting away with it

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>>86855183
What? No!
You're literally just a brainlet or a disohnoest person.

The entire point of that scene or every moral myth in the last 4000 years to be fucking fair is that a tale, a symbol, a fantasy, an utopia if you like isnt purposless if it inspires men to strife towards it.

A superhero can be a role model cause some kids decided to help their friends cause that's "what superman would do"

>>86855212

Marston believed that there were two types of people: those that feel a need to dominated others, and those that feel a need to submit to others, and that society should be based on a master-slave dynamic where people are free to pursue their natural inclination. Since society isn't like that we've all these social problems as byproduct of people unhappiness. Women, because of their feminine and motherly nature, had a tendency to be good masters, due to their loving and gentle nature.

>>86855278
I'm not talking about a scene but the character, you retard. You can't even read, nor type.

I want James Cameron to create his own female superhero and break 3 billion to shut everyone up

>>86851356
>They can care about their looks, they can be open, emotional and gentle, they can want to need a man, to desire to have babies, to start a family
This is Cameron's entire point, most of this shit is stuff women do for the sole purpose of pleasing/attracting men, or it's things that the end result and goal is directed or controlled by men.

You can deny it all you want but women don't wear makeup to "care about their looks", they do it solely to appeal and look attractive to men, and ironically makeup is a male creation to make "ugly" women more attractive.

Cameron is right whether you cucks like it or not. Almost everything involving a woman's existence is done for the benefit or end game of men.

>>86855081
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j73IkjslvoM

>>86856427
Good post.

>>86856427
>>86856917
Women wear makeup more than just to attract men. Male attraction may be at the heart of the matter, but since the 20th century it's been more than that. Makeup helps women look like idealized versions of themselves, it makes them become more glamorous and important. Men spruce themselves up to attract women too, but we also do it to look respectable and assertive. We become better when we look better. Same with women. It's part of the social consciousness. That's why betas and internet tough guys like you look so pitiful and deserve scorn. You look ugly.

That's also why our superhero icons, male and female, look attractive. Because we admire attractive people and it helps us aspire to become better (in most cases).

>>86857203
>Makeup helps women look like idealized versions of themselves
To men.
>it makes them become more glamorous and important
To men.

Thanks for proving the point.

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>>86856427

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>>86849427

>>86856427
Cameron is pushing for the "strong woman that needs no man" stereotype. Jenkins says they deserve to have more than that stereotype as representation on the big screen, just like men have more than one way to be portrayed as heroes.

>>86857261
>Implying that all men do is not to look like a good mate for women.

anybody think that based jim only said what he thought the world wanted to hear and it came out wrong? he probably just thinks it's a shit movie

the fact that journalists want to make the most successful director in history look bad shows just how fucked these people are

>>86857261
Thanks for proving you're gay.

>>86849911
Classical Tunics were knee length and left no thigh exposed

>>86854865
Not true. The whole film is about Sarah Connor realizing and accepting her role as a MOTHER while the terminator represents the father figure. If you replace Sarah Connor with a male, it's about two gay guys quibbling over their adopted child -- not the same movie.