What did people think of ASOIAF before the series? what was

>>86844340
everyone thought they were neat

>>>/lit/

I loved the first 3 books. Yawned through the 4th, hated the 5th. The book series was already trashed by the time the tv series started imo.

I remember it being very popular in the nerd community, 15 years ago.

>>86844340
It was always my favorite series

People liked them. Hell /lit/ was crazy over ADWD. Now they claim they don't funny enough.

So Martin hasn't finished the series? Isn't the publisher putting immense pressure on him?

>>86846711
They can't. Book writers have zero obligations. Especially one of GRRM's calibre.

>>86844340
It was great for the Young Adult Genre.

>>86844340
>literally never heard of the books before the series aired
There's your answer.

>>86846711
He's old, obese, addicted to food and lazy as fuck. The publisher knows he will die before finishing anything beyond a plate of donuts. It will end up like The Wheel of Time. Another author will take over, IE, glorified fan fiction. It's fucked. The tv-show is canon, deal with it.

>>86844340
People loved it until he released a book that introduced a bunch of new literal who characters and omitted favourites like Jon and Arya.

Also half a decade between releases has soured people on him too, if it wasn't for the tv show people would have forgotten them

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>>86844340
GOOOODS THE BOOKS WERE GOOD BACK THEN

>>86846711
Well if the tv series wasn't created then grrm might feel pressured to get it done but since he is rich as fuck thanks to hbo he doesn't give a fuck

Books 1 to 3 were cummed all over /lit/ and 4chan in general. 4 and 5 had some defenders but most of us agreed the series went to shit, just like the tv show went to shit after the 4th season. GRRM got lucky with the first 3 books and ripped off british/english history, it's obvious.

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>>86846747
> > Isn't the publisher putting immense pressure on him?
> They can't. Book writers have zero obligations. Especially one of GRRM's calibre.

Nonsense, GRRM signed a contract and took an advance so he has to produce two more books or the publisher can sue the shit out of him.

>>86848732
His response would be "let them sue me". It's not like he will be out of house and home.

1st book was good

2nd was shit

3rd was good

4th was good

5th was shit.

1 and 4 were probably the best because they were more focused.

>>86848805
>His response would be "let them sue me". It's not like he will be out of house and home.

Yes, in fact he would.

It's a lawsuit the publisher literally can't lose, GRRM would have to pay back all the money he got from them and pay his lawyers to fight the case that he literally can't win, because he SIGNED A CONTRACT.

1st was really good. 2nd was kind of boring other than the blackwater battle. 3rd was excellent. 4th is better than it's given credit for. 5th is absolutely awful.

It's a good series but I have zero confidence that Martin can capture any of what made it good to begin with, with the last 2 books.

>>86844340
1. is GOAT
2. is okay
3. is good
4. is okay
5. is meh

>>86849116
who the hell asked you?

>>86849203
OP did

>>86849203

From OP

"What did people think of ASOIAF before the series?"

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I really like the Brazilian covers

>>86849368
>brazils
>knowingshit about castles and euro history

>>86848962
They can't sue him since the contract doesn't say anything about the unreleased books, man knew his skills were fading so he didn't wanna leave it to chance.

>>86849605

>americans being retarded on the internet again

Is it genetics?

>>86844477
This. By Dance I only gave a shit about Davos chapters.

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who did it best?

>>86850159

I really dislike the minimalist designs that seem to be the fashion in USA/British cover designs like with ASOIAF.

Give me LOTR style gorgeous paintings with castles, mountains and characters. Fantasy is supposed to be able world building and escapism they should give that sense in the cover art.

>>86844340
How would your day look like if TWOW is finally released to your local bookstore?

Mine would be like this: First I gonna wake up early and take a shower, then I gonna take the car and ride to my local bookstore, then after buying the book I will go to the snackbar and buy kapsalon and a 6 pack red bull and after that I will ride back to my home and start reading and eating.

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>>86849690
> I want to write some books
> ok, here’s a bunch of money
> thanks
> how many books you gunna write?
> I dunno
> ok, that’s cool

Sorry, I didn’t realize you’re a dumbass. Carry on.

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>>86850159
accept no substitutes

The 5th is the most underrated book in the series. People only remember the Dany chapters which were horrible.

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>>86850768

>From the author of the sequel to this book, comes this book
>The beloved fantasy saga begins

I always used to watch scenes when they came out to see how the show handled them in comparison. I was disappointed with everything after season 1.

The show appears to have become terrible fanfiction as a result of exhausting the available source material.

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>>86850768
was this one of the original covers?

>>86850823
Based Hot pie

>>86844340
terrible

>>86850806
Yeah I quite liked ADWD, the one I couldn't bear was AFFC

How would your day look like if TWOW is finally released to your local bookstore?

Mine would be like this: First I gonna wake up early and take a shower, then I gonna take the car and ride to my local bookstore, then after buying the book I will go to the snackbar and buy kapsalon and a 6 pack red bull and after that I will ride back to my home and start reading and eating.

>>86850471
he signs for ''one book'' contract when he's close to finishing it you stupid fuck

>>86844340
Everything went shit at a Feast for Crows:
>Terrible writing style; literally half the page is italicised, internal dialogue trying to be witty.
>Story doesn't really go anywhere; no great structure like the preceding books.
>Too wide a scope; with the books that are left it's really unlikely things will be tied up satisfactorily.
>Darkstar.

I'm probably in the minority but I thought A Feast for Crows was the best book. Jaime and Cersei had top-tier chapters and a book with no Dany or Jon was everything I wished for. Christ their PoVs are boring.

Not to mention AFFC had great worldbuilding. ADWD would be in my top too if it weren't for those godawful Dany chapters. The Theon ones were the best in the entire series though, absolutely great.

i remember reading the first novel way back and hating it because Ned the main character died at the end since he reminded me of Boromir but better.
Then i heard the Sean Bean casting, it was hilarious and sad at the same time.

>>86850806
The endless and pointless dany chapters were hard work. The theon chapters made up for it a bit for me but it still seemed a bloated mess overall.

>>86844340
I made a huge mistake even comparing the two

I loved season one so much I bought the complete bookset. However I wanted to read them as the show went on to compare the differences. So in Season two i started reading book two and I was so annoyed with the differences I dropped the show and just read the rest of the books.

Now i can't enjoy the show , which is too bad because everyone I know is and I would enjoy it because at least it's good budget and it has medieval armors and CGI dragons, it's something I would enjoy

So now I'm waiting for all the books to come out, then later on I would watch the entire show and not get too riled up about it

i can safely say i never heard of the books before the show

>>86848732
At the beginning he was planning on only writing 3 books, so if the early contracts matter he has already fulfilled them.

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>>86851520

No, GRRM signed a contract and took an advance on a trilogy, then part way thru the publications he signed another contract and took another advance for two more books, then party way thru them he, signed another contract and took another advance for the final two books.

GRRM is contractually obligated with providing his publisher with the final two books.

>>86844477
Dance came out after season one.
Why do you come here to lie?

>>86851247
>implying brienne and jaime aren't literary kinography
dorne isn't great though

>>86852598
Sorry I offended you...why are you offended? It was obviously an opinion.

>>86849368
Wow, way cooler than the ones in OP's pic. I was bitching about this a few weeks ago. Couldn't they put something better than "generic sword, crown and goblet" on the cover?

>>86846647
Stop lying. /lit/ was always split on the series, but once the show started they just shit all over it. tBotNS is the official /lit/ approved SFF series and always has been.

>>86852167
He can die before finishing. Can't sue the dead.

They were good compared to most other fantasy I read up to that stage because it wasn't "Mary Sue/Gary Stu from quaint village in bumfuck nowhere has to learn to master magic/sword mastery/ninja skills etc in order to save the world from [insert cackling evil villain]."

Daenarys chapters were always fucking terrible and a chore to read through though, her character feels so out of place with everyone else.

Also, he dun goofed by making Melly Sanders a POV character, she was much better when her motivations/alignment were mysterious.

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>>86844477
>liking the first book
Shit didn't get really good until feast you pleb

>>86846647
Maybe initially, but that was quickly quelled because ASOIAF is pleb material.

>>86851797
Its not my favorite, but Feast gets unfairly shit on, imho. Brienne and Jaime chapters are GOAT-tier, and I loved the Ironborn stuff. No Dany is fucking great, but I did miss Tyrion and, to a lesser extent, Jon POVs. Feast just had the unfortunate position of trying to follow Storm, which is the peak of the series thus far. Luckily, after all the buildup of Feast and Dance, Winds should be a barn burner like Storm was.

>>86844340
Are they ever going to do the audiobooks with a guy who can act? I want to get into the series but the raspy guy doesn't work for me. He's so monotone that it's hard to remember to pay attention.

>>86854234
I've never listened to an audio book, but do the guys reading it actually put on voices and shit for different characters? That seems really fucking cringey.

>>86847388
>>86846711
>>86846747
I think there's a pive part off-spin coming too, fat fuck is set for life
Why doesn't he get this shit ghostwritten is above me though. These are 2 books, can't he really humor his fans with a closure?

>>86854273
Some guys act out every character. Some guys just do a dry reading. It's not cringe as a long as they have a good voice. Acting or no acting a guy with a raspy voice pretending to be a girl is offputting. More importantly the guy who reads these ASOIAF novels is plain boring.

>>86854351
I see. I think the guy who played Viserys did the audio book of Dunk & Egg. His voice is great, I'm sure he'd do well.

>>86854273
roy dotrice who narrated the audiobooks did a great job imo, at least for the first 3 books.

>>86854338
HBO is developing five different spinoffs right now. Sounds like they're hoping for one to take GoT's place, but I'm sure they'll make one or more of the others into miniseries. The fat man said they won't do Robert's Rebellion, which is stupid because I think it would be the one option that could actually hold the GoT audience.

I'm hoping for a series about Aerys' Kingsguard, with a major focus on the falling out between Aerys and Tywin. That way we'd get prime Jaime, Barristan, Dayne, Robert and Ned.

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>>86850768

Cheesy fantasy covers are comfy.

>>86854535
Roberts rebellion makes 100% the most sense, as it'll even include characters casual fags are aware of like ned, robert, jorah, the greyjoys, so on. If not that, then dunk and egg as it's only 100 years before but still, grrm has said this isn't it.

The only one I can think of that made sense as a prequel would be aegons conquest, he has 3 dragons and it'd mirror daenerys invasion in season 7 and it still has all the regular house names like lannister and stark for normies to recognise.

Some people want a spinoff set in essos but that'd make no sense from a franchise point of view. HBO would want recognizable things like to see the eerie once again (could be seen in aegons conquest) or a young ned and rhaegar. Every other prequel always has nods and references and eastereggs to the main series like star wars, lord of the rings with hobbit, you can tell all these are set in the same universe just years apart, if it's a wild spinoff set thousands years apart or set in essos it'd make no sense.

Like people on /tv/ read, even shitty genre fiction
Anyways the books were decent until the fourth, which has some redeemable qualities. then ADWD came out and that was a killing blow.
Also GRRM is a complete asshole that deserves all the hate that he can get. Even if he does finish the books they are going to be derivates of the tv series because he's spent. Stuff like Cersei burning king's landing? it's going to happen. Stannis dying? you fucking bet.

>>86854535
>>86854535
>No roberts rebellion
Is this confirmed? I was holding out hope this could be a great mini series, like spartacus gods of the arena was a better series than blood and sand despite being a prequel

does /lit/ have any approved genre fiction besides Book of the New Sun

>>86854536
>arabian riding a big black horse
>white woman riding a small white pony

really makes you think...

>>86855087
Yeah, GRRM said in a blog post that they won't do RR because after GoT/ASoIaF, there won't be anything new to discover about it - which is stupid, because most fans want more Ned/Robert/Jaime/Tywin/Arthur Dayne/Rhaegar etc. And unfortunately, in the same post, he also said none of them are Dunk & Egg because he's only written three D&E books and wants to write "nine or ten", so unfortunately, >>86854957 is kinda shit outta luck as well. I'd be down with an Aegon the Conqueror series, but the budget for each episode would be ridiculously huge from the get-go, since it would basically be like season 7 of GoT. This is why Robert's Rebellion should have been the one to get adapted - familiar characters, no huge CGI budget for dragons and wolves and zombies, and it would lead perfectly into S1 of GoT.

RR and D&E make the most sense, so who knows wtf HBO is gonna do.

>>86847388
If they let Sanderson take over SOIAF to finish it that would be great. I thought he did a good job on WoT, and I reread the entire series as each book came out.

I read the books because /tv/ had daily threads hyping the series since the very first day it got announced, a year before it aired. Never read a fantasy book other then LOTR but really enjoyed them. By the time the show finally aired I was halfway through the second book.

>>86855299
Seek mental help.

>>86844477
this

>>86849368
uma delicia

>>86855516
Isn't he a hardcore Mormon and prefers his fantasy more high and wholesome? I can't really comment because I've never read a Sanderson book, but if what I've heard is true, ASoIaF isn't really his style.

I haven't read the First Law books either, but by the sounds of it, Joe Abercrombie might be a better choice to finish it - provided he has GRRM's notes and that autistic Mexican guy to help him out.

>>86850159

Finland has a nice moodiness to it.

>>86853067

Why are you assuming he's offended? Why are you apologizing for causing offense instead of for lying?

>>86855516
GOT is too dirty for him. I actually like him and his anime but it doesn't fit, like >>86855640 is saying. he's still better than Abercrombie though, jesus fuck does that guy suck. The first Law is complete bullshit

>>86855746
Genuinely curious about what makes Abercrombie bad? I'm planning on reading the Black Company after ASoIaF, but First Law was on my list as well.

>>86844340

The book series (so far) has been really good... although GRRM can be a little wordy at times and takes FOEVER to write new installments. But, definitely worth checking out. (So are The Hedge Knight spin-offs/prequels)

The show was as good as it could be (at trying to condense 1000+ page books into 10 episode seasons) for the first 4-5 seasons or so... once the show writers ran out of 'source material' & started coming up with their own shit, the show became utter lowest common denominator garbage.

>>86853445
The original cover art for A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, and A Storm of Swords were cool.

Speaking as someone who read the books back in 2001, they were highly appreciated for the fact that they actually had men and women act like real people. Even Jon wasn't quite a Gary Stu because he was an entitled fuckwit that had a LOT of growing up to do in AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS.

Plus a lot of readers back in the message boards in 2001 commented that Daenerys' actions since the end of AGOT caused a lot of ripple effects in how she destabilized Essos. The burning of Mirri Maz Duur was the 1st indication that Daenerys was not going to be this princess-in-exile archetype that were used to.

>>86854957
>>86855390
There's way more interesting things in Westeros history than Robert's Rebellion or Aegon's Conquest. A mini-series about the Dance of the Dragons, the First Blackfyre Rebellion, or my personal favorite, the Ninepenny Kings saga would be amazing.

Even pre-Conquest storylines like how Durran XXI of the Durrandons made an alliance with the Children of the Forest to halt the Andal advance. Or the Andal invasion of the Vale.

Or if they depicted the Valyrian Freehold like the Rome TV series. Remember the Targaryens weren't even amongst the most powerful Dragon Rider families and were out in the remote corner of the Freehold.

Even Nymeria and the Rhoynish escaping from the Valyrians and their perilous travels into Sothoroys and finally into Dorne would be hella epic.

>>86855789
It's bleak to the point of absurdity, like Aber went out of his way to make everything awful for no reason. If you plan on reading then I won't spoil you but man is it over the top. But it's entertaining at least I guess, so if you want to read them go at it. if you are also reading black company then it will feel samey imo, but whatever rows your boat.

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>>86844340
Lowbrow fantasy, which shows mimics perfectly.

Also people said GRRM is borderline retarded because his writing style is atrocious.

>>86850159
France 1. fucking hate the USA/Sweden one it's the same as we got here in Aus looks so boring.

>>86851797
>>86854196
AFFC and ADWD were glorious because it picked up right after all the shit that went down in ASOS.

Everyone I know hated the Greyjoy chapters, but I really enjoyed the Kingsmoot and a glimpse of what Euron was like. I really liked that one Ironborn candidate that suggested to sail in the far west and colonize new lands. I'm willing to bet that not only is that dude right, he's gonna be the founder of a vast empire in Americos.

Brienne and Pod's journey in the Riverlands was like reading Dunk & Egg. I really hate how the TV series made her into this jaded killer when she's actually an unsure teenage girl that's trying to do the right thing.

And Davos goes to White Harbor was glorious. Was also pleasantly surprised how Stannis/Jon interactions were like. They bicker and argue like The Odd Couple, but they respect the shit out of one another and will watch each other's back.

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>>86854536
Fuck yeah. Wish I could have gotten the Black Company with this cover.

>>86855703
finland looks like a heavy metal album cover

>>86856099
Dubs of truth
They're essential chapters that show the cost of war, and the fallout in general
I really like when they go back to Astapor in Dance.

>>86856099
Yeah, book Brienne is such a great character. Her and Jaime's chapters are juxtaposed nicely, with Jaime's redemption arc finally getting into full swing, and Brienne ending up betraying him to LSH to save her own skin.

>>86853796
Daenerys is literally the Mary Sue of the series. It's entirely obvious that she is GRRM's favourite character to write for which is why we get so many useless chapters of hers.
>Shit, I need to pad out this book. I know, I'll throw in a few more Dany chapters. I love writing those

TWoW will be fucking full of them, just wait.

>>86851516
Wake up, go to pick up preorder, read in a day, get online and shitpost.

>>86856232
I don't think it'll be too Dany-biased. There's too much stuff happening elsewhere to focus on Dany that much.

>Stannis/battle of ice
>situation at Winterfell
>Barristan/battle of Meereen
>Tyrion, Jorah and Victarion finally getting into Meereen (resolution of the knot, hopefully)
>Jon's murder/situation at the Wall
>Jaime/Brienne/LSH resolution
>fallout in King's Landing from Kevan and Pycelle's murders (Cersei is basically back in control again, and more unstable than ever after the imprisonment/walk of atonement)
>Davos going to Skagos
>Sam at the Citadel

Compare that against "Dany being captured by Dothraki", and I don't think Winds will be too Dany-heavy. No way he wraps it all up in two books though, at the very least Dream of Spring will have to be a 2-parter, in which case he's guaranteed to die before part 2 comes out.

>>86856381
It's insane how much shit is going to happen in TWOW.

You also forgot:

Red Wedding 2.0 at Riverrun. Stoneheart and her Brotherhood faction infiltrated the Frey wedding that's going to be held there.

Euron attacking Oldtown and most likely going to plunder the Citadel for its magical lore

>>86856225
I'm not sure it's betraying him so much as seeing whether or not it's Stoneheart putting Jaime to the test over his redemption. The show really gutted Jaime's progression.

>>86856210
It's funny as fuck that the show really handwaved Daenerys fucking up in Slavery's Bay compared to what happened in the books. Nation-building by a foreigner and seeing how everything goes to shit is a meta commentary on the US presence in Afghanistan and Iraq. Daenerys trying to be a white savior to brown people is hilarious yet SJWs don't see the hypocrisy or satire in this.

>>86844477
pretty much this, although after the half of book 5 it get interesting again

Book 2 and 3 were fantastic. Book 1 could also be fucking great at times. Only good part of 4 and 5 were Arya becoming a little loli killing machine.

>>86854969
Stannis isn't dying anytime soon in the books. It's almost guaranteed that he is going to defeat the Boltons and then make zombie Jon Snow the lord of Winterfell. He'll probably focus his attention afterwards on the Walkers and probably die in a battle against them.

>>86856813
I like that one theory that Jon's consciousness will warg into Ghost after being shanked. It ties into the Last Hero setting off with a dozen companions and a dog against the Others.

Read the first 3 and loved them waited for 4th and was meh, 5th was bad.

A good time to be a fan of the books was when they announced they were making the tv show. 4 Chan did not have many /General/ threads back then and MrEcko used to start them who also did the /LOST/ threads back when that was airing /tv/ used to be a lot slower and seemed more fun.

>>86853588
>He can die before finishing. Can't sue the dead.

Sure, I don't know of the publisher imposed some kinda time window on the next two books (doesn't appear so) but if he does die before publishing them, odds are they have a clause in the contract guaranteeing them access to his notes and papers so they can hire ghost writers to finish the story.

>>86856916

Yeah his mental state being kept stable being in Ghost makes a lot of sense to me. The people we know who have died and been brought back to life, Cat and Beric, are consumed with the last things that happened to them being the Freys and The Mountain. Jon warging into Ghost will save his stability and not be consumed with getting revenge on the Nights Watch.

>>86857101

Hopefully he dies soon so Brandon Sanderson can finish the series like he did with wheel of time.

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>>86854535
>>86854957
>>86855087
>>86855390
>>86855928

Anything prequel series done by HBO is guaranteed to be complete shit, as we can see from how they fucked up GoT despite having five novels of 1000 pager each to work with.

They are going to be committee written marketing department driven garbage.

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>>86855846
>The show was as good as it could be

>>86851797
I wouldn't go so far as "best", but it's very good. Brienne, Jaime, and Dorne chapters were all top-tier.

ADWD was too ambitious for its own good, though.

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>>86856381
>>86856518

Both of you forgot Aegon the Reconqueror.

>>86857321
True, but I have faith that 1 or 2 of the spinoffs will be in the hands of competent people like the Rome crew or Season 1 of True Detective.

>>86850924

lol

>>86857476
Yeah, Young Griff being omitted from the show was annoying.

The South is a clusterfuck because with Cersei's Trial by Combat and all those wildfire caches, Euron's attack on the Reach, Young Griff setting up shop in Storm's End, and maybe Daenerys' arrival, there won't even be civilization anymore there.

It used to be pretty popular on 4chan there was real discussion of it

GoT ruined everything because it triggered 4chan's contrarianism so all of a sudden everyone hated it, and the show's retarded writing gradually whittled away the rest

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Val and Jon > Dany and Jon

>>86857321
To be fair, the focus of 4000 of those pages is eating, fucking, and shitting.

>>86857640
4chan's contrarianism is mostly targeted against Martin's books for some reason. Few LOTR autists that just can't take the fact that ASOIAF is arguably more popular than LOTR now, thus spamming constant threads about taxes and whatever.

At the end of the day the criticism of the show is absolutely justified. It went to total shit after season 4.

>>86857640
I actually remember back in 2011 when there was great analysis and critique of ASOIAF plotlines and world-building.

>>86857719
Man, I really hate how they removed so many secondary characters; many of whom play decisive roles behind-the-scenes.

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>>86857640

The S01 generals were great because D&D were sticking reasonably close to the original story and we could speculate on what would happen in later seasons, meanwhile most of the discussion was about the books.

But with each subsequent season, the general got shittier as the show got shittier and nowadays, the general is just a race by retards to repost the same tired memes from the last thread…

Did anyone else here read the Belgariad?

A _____ of ______

>>86857840
I remember back in 2012 when we had Grampa Tywin and Arya, people were wondering WTF was with that original content. It was the 1st real sign of Benioff and Weiss screwing up by adding in their fanfiction.

Not to mention the complete omission of Ramsay being disguised as Reek and Theon being the one who killed Rodrik Cassel. It fucked over Theon's character just like Jaime murdering a made-up cousin in that season.

>>86857827
>No Darkstar
>No Tyrell brothers
>No Arianne
>No Young Griff
>No any Meereenese characters
>No Bloody Mummers
>No Patchface
>No Ghost of High Heart
>No Edric Storm
>No Euron (only Victarion's and Aurane Waters' character merged with Euron's name)
>No Genna Lannister
>No Kettleblacks

>>86857840
there were no generals, bud

>>86857879
A Suck of Fuck

>>86857818
It's still about the show.

You can bash GoT on /tv/ all day and everyone will agree with you. Going after the books still produces some rebuttal. A lot of it is also political, because they're mad that GRRM is an SJW and think Tolkein is some pure defender of traditional christian values.

>>86848962
>>86849690
Why do either of you pretend to know the details of any contracts Martin has with his publisher?

>>86857840
>those days where D&D original content was actually good, felt natural, and added to the characters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6GW03WsFgU

What happened

>>86857911
>Aurane Waters
Him along with Rolland Storm are probably my favorite bastards in Westeros. It's interesting how Rolland, Aurane, and even Jon (everyone views him as a bastard regardless of R+L=J) are all with Stannis. That dude does not give a fuck so long as you're competent.

Also, they whitewashed Cersei's blatant stupidity in the show so they can't have her give the royal fleet to Aurane just because he looks hot.

Every character you listed is partly why ASOIAF is a fun read. The show completely missed the point when they just focus on their fan-favorite memes.

I mean, they turned the Thenns into slasher-movie cannibals instead of the only civilized tribe amongst the Wildlings and one of Jon's best moments in ADWD when he married Alys off to the new Magnar

>>86857879

A Pile of Shit

>>86858036
Got too full of themselves and thought they could modify GOT.

Man, I really hated Talisa. Because it made Robb look stupid as fuck for pissing away his Frey alliance just because of foreign ass.

4chan and /tv/ especially likes to rewrite history. /tv/ will never let you believe that GoT threads in 2012 were full of praise and genuine discussion instead of shitty memes about taxes and black dicks.

Similarly, both /tv/ and /lit/ would never admit that there was a lot of praise and positive discussion on the ASOIAF books.

Game of Thrones is now a normie hit, so it must be the worst thing ever. Also the show has shitty writing now so clearly it was bad all along.

>>86858038
Aurane isn't with Stannis, he crowned himself King of the Stepstones. Stannis would execute him

>>86858036
The first cracks were mostly hamless, like Arya and Tywin.

Oh they left out Ramsay dressing as Reek? Well, they do have time constraints I guess and the Theon story can still work..

Oh...No Lady Stoneheart? I...I...never liked it anyway......

Then before we knew it we had Grey Worm x Missandei, beetle crushing, and Show Dorne

>>86844340
Before about season 3 of the show, the first 3 books were very well liked on 4chan. The 4th was regarded as underrated and undeserving of the criticism it got but still not as good as the initial trilogy. The 5th was debated but had loads of defenders (at least 50%).

It'd be hard to believe that before around 2014 in general, /tv/ used to have actual discussion on it instead of just pedos and /pol/

>>86858073
what went different in the books?

>>86858129
What about Patchface's rhyme? He's the one with the most accurate prophecies.

>We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh.
Aurane is a bastard of House Velaron which has a seahorse.

The 3 possibilities are:

- Aurane is a pirate king in the Stepstones as it was alluded in AFFC.
- Aurane is hedging his bets and waiting to join with Daenerys
- Aurane is allocating his forces and will bring the royal fleet to Stannis when the time is right.

>>86857997
GRRM is a self-proclaimed feminist, but it doesn't show up in the books.

>Dany is constantly fucking up, destabilizes an entire region, and reverts to a horny little girl when Daario shows up
>Cersei is a sociopath/borderline psychopath with paranoid delusions who is dumb as fuck and gets gamed at every turn
>Catelyn is an impulsive idiot
>Sansa is a naive dumb shit little girl who gets Ned killed
>Olenna is catty, but her and Margaery are essentially non-characters in the books
>Arianne and the Sand Snakes get absolutely BTFO by Doran
>Arya is useless for 4 books
>Melisandre is cool, but is 100% wrong about Stannis bring Azor Ahai

>>86849203

OP

>>86858281
There was no Talisa in the books. Robb captured a castle in the Westerlands that was held by the Westerlings, a House sworn to the Lannisters. Robb heard about the "deaths" of Bran and Rickon; he was mourning them and Jeyne Westerling, a young girl his age "comforted" him i.e. grief sex. It was hinted in AFFC that Jeyne's mom drugged Robb with a love potion.

When Robb realized he deflowered a high-born girl like Jeyne, he immediately thought of Jon and the possibility that Jeyne would have a bastard. Robb married her out of misguided honor; something that the Freys didn't take kindly to.

In the show, he just fell head over heels with some Voltanese noblewoman whose somehow in the middle of Westeros during a warzone as a nurse. Does this sound plausible to you?

>>86850159
finland, easily. reminds me of princess mononoke

>>86858296
Ah that's a good point. I love Patchface's riddles. It's a shame how the show cut so many magical elements.

>No Marwyn

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>>86858038
>mfw people refer to Jon as "The Black Bastard of the Wall" in the later books

>>86857997
>You can bash GoT on /tv/ all day and everyone will agree with you.

And that's fine, the show has been shit after season 4. But I fucking hate these autists that say only season 1 was good, that's absolute bullshit. Not to mention that they probably don't believe it themselves considering they've watched all 7 seasons. What's the point of watching a show for so long if you've only considered just 1 season of it good? I for example can't stop right now because I'm just way too deep, and the decline from season 4 to season 5 was absolutely staggering and not something I expected to be repeated (sure, season 4 showed some cracks and dips in quality, but as a whole it was still quite good).

>A lot of it is also political, because they're mad that GRRM is an SJW and think Tolkein is some pure defender of traditional christian values.

Yeah, that is an obvious one, really. I have a hard time picturing Martin as an SJW even though he constantly virtue signals. At the end of the day his books have nothing to suggest that he is a true SJW, in fact they point towards the opposite, but who knows?

>>86850159
'finland is aesthetic as fuck

>>86858375
He most likely does it to appease his fans. Game of Thrones is super popular now and with that comes certain downsides - mainly braindead normies and SJW's who want everything to be like they want. But as you said - there isn't a single female in the books that is even remotely competent.

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>>86858219
>beetle crushing
best scene anon. it added depth to tyrione too

Lads, I'm almost done Feast, just past the chapter when Jaime meets with the Blackfish at Riverrun. Jaime tells the Blackfish "You can go to the Wall, Jon Snow is Lord Commander now." Blackfish says something like "Catelyn didn't trust Jon, like she didn't trust Theon. Seems she was right about both of them."

The fuck did he mean by this? What's wrong with Jon being elected LC?

>>86846711
No, it's not finished. The fat cunt has dragged it out for over 20 years.

>>86858402
>It was hinted in AFFC that Jeyne's mom drugged Robb with a love potion.
I don't remember this. Why would she do that in the first place, the Westerlings are the Lannister's bannermen. I read a theory somewhere that getting Jeyne to sleep with Robb was a ploy by Tywin.

>>86858581
It was actually D&D bitching about the author of Ender's Game (who was a critic of the show) and added nothing to the story/character

>>86850159
Finland

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FINISHED, IS IT
IS THAT HOW YOU WANT YOUR BOOKS

>>86858589
plz rspnd

2000 pages of brienne chapters

how anyone likes affc is beyond me

>>86858589
Cat hates Jon, Cat is Blackfish's sister so he also mistrusts Jon. He thinks Tywin manipulated the Watch into electing Jon LC in exchange for not assisting Robb or some shit like that. Also Blackfish is an asshole.

>>86844340
Just from the covers I can tell the author is a hack

>>86844394
>GoT
>literature

In answer to your question OP only people who named their cat Darksummoner would ever have read such trash.

>>86859242
>Literally judging a book by its cover

>>86844477
I actually liked the 5th book. And although most of FFC was trash - I'm looking at you Brienne - but I liked Jamie chapters, and reading Cersei's descent into madness.

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I remember seeing the first one at Borders and thinking it would probably suck because the author put "R.R." in his name to be like Tolkien. I guess I could have been really ahead of the curve on that one...

>>86859217
>>86859389
Brienne chapters are the supreme pleb filter of the series. I'm sorry lads, but you've outed yourselves.

>>86859338
>implying thats a bad thing
I bet you think first impressions are "evil" too

>>86844340
Most people didn't care or know about them, book nerds liked them for the most part and there were a few theorist type people out there but much less than now. However most fantasy lit nerds did not like the later books because they're slow paced for fantasy and too quick to shift focus away from fan favorite characters.

>>86858613
If he hasn't managed to finish the mess he made in previous book for 20 years, how are DnD supposed to finish it?

>>86848330
>ripped off british/english history, it's obvious.
what? grrm himself said the series was inspired by the balkans and the balkan war. british accents and ugly medieval costumes aren't ripping off english history.

>>86859338
I hate this expression. There's a reason cover art exists: To give some idea of the mood/themes of the book. It serves almost as much purpose as the title to anyone not listening to an audio book or reading in braille.

>>86859709
The War of the Roses between the Houses of Lancaster and York.

I loved the first 3 and was bored to tears by the next 2.

Read the first 3 before the series.

>>86859709
War of the roses, famous english history, read up on it. Also the red wedding is ripped straight from british history. Look up the black dinner. There's also a ton more.

>>86859960
Actually it's based on Philip the Fair's death and the lead up to the Hundred Years War. Look up the Accursed Kings series, GRRM said it's the "original game of thrones."

Finland easily. Really captures the feels.

>>86847388
>The tv-show is canon, deal with it.

Literally the thing I tell myself whenever I contemplate about Winds of Winter and ADoS

This is how GRRM write (literally):

>Create main characters
>plan a journey for each one of them, with all of them evetually coming down to the same path
>now you have to make sure all the journeys will end in the same path
>start creating more characters to guide the paths of the main characters
>the new characters are now getting too big, they now need arcs of their own
>get more and more characters
>shit is getting messy
>spend +6 years writing each volume
>it should get simpler, but it's getting more complexe
>have no idea how to proceed, should you do a 5 year gap? scrap off certain characters like they never existed? new POV? Yeah, new POV!
>new POV boring as fuck
>nobody likes it
>stuff is getting more complexe when it should be getting simpler

>>86848962

All he has to do is release books. They don't have to be any good. He could shit out something terrible in a week and would no longer be liable.

>>86858617
Jeyne's mom, Sybell Spicer is the granddaughter of Maggy the Frog, the woods witch that told Cersei's future. Sybell plotted with Tywin to fuck over Robb and made sure her daughter wasn't pregnant with Stark babies so that Tyrion could knock up Sansa as the sole descendant of Ned. Sybell did this because her grandfather was a spice trader who had access to foreign plants and her grandmother Maggy knew all sorts of potion. So it's not far-fetched to believe Sybell drugged Robb as well as have her daughter drink anti-conception brews.

>>86859662
Yeah a lot of fantasy fans didn't like how things weren't a carbon copy of LOTR, Wheel of Time, and other titles in the genre.

I must be the only dude who read the book sequels to 1988's Willow. They were co-written by George Lucas and Chris Claremont (writer for X-Men in the 1980's). You can tell how shitty the Star Wars prequels were gonna be thanks to the Shadow War Trilogy because a lot of its elements were in it. The 1st 2 Shadow War books were written a few years before The Phantom Menace (1995 and 1996), the last one in 2000. And these are typical fantasy books that have a Queen and her dragons.

>>86861351
The five year gap would've saved so much bullshit. No Dany fucking about in Meereen, no Arya wandering around Braavos, no Sansa moping about at the Eerie.

>>86850768
so campy

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>>86855928
I didn't know what "Gary Stu" was, so I went to UD. It said, female version of Mary Stu. Okay so far so good, let's follow the link:

>Mary-Sue

>"A sexist term used to enforce the misogynistic ideals that female characters/authors shouldn't be allowed to fantasize or write anything along the lines of wish fulfillment. Its misogynistic qualities are exemplified in many ways, most notably being the fact that it's not a term dominated by the male counterpart despite existing in a patriarchal society, as well as the fact that the male counterpart is largely undecided upon in name and also undefined (see urban dictionary'sGary Stuentry which has no definition but to say "A Male Mary Sue", and theMarty-Stuentry which involves the "Mary Sue" definition to define it).

>It's usually used on the whole to bully new authors out of writing female characters altogether, making the task seem so daunting to some that they now only write slash fictions with two male characters, also........"

Wtf I hate reading now

Pic unrelated

>>86861458
Yeah, but what the fuck would Jon, the Night's Watch, the Wildlings, and Stannis be doing during those 5 years? Manning all the castles on the Wall as well as evacuating every Wildling, Mammoth, and Giant north of it?

>>86855236
Why would you need anything else?

>>86861691
>cis-het

Now what in the fuck does cis-het mean?

>>86859538
Mate, you're chatting shit. Each chapter, "have you seen this girl?", and then she get the shit beaten out of her. Fucking kino.

>>86861825
Not the anon you're responding to, but Brienne's chapters are insights into what's been going on in the Riverlands ever since Arya went to Braavos. Plus there's a good amount of background material like the story about the innkeeper whose Black Dragon metal sigil washed up and became Red from rust; a hint at Young Griff actually being a Blackfyre descendant. Or Brienne's childhood and how she was rejected by a potential suitor and why she fell in love with Renly. Not to mention the clue about her being a descendant of Dunk.

>>86858375
GRRM isn't a third wave feminist. He's a feminist in the sense that he thinks women should be treated like actual people in his books, and they are. Most fantasy books before him uusally had women characters that were either passive sideliners with no personality, or were stereotypical stonk womyn that also didn't have much personality besides being Mary Sues. In GRRM's books, they have agency, and we get to know what they're like as people. Yeah, they make lots of stupid decisions and can be shitty people, but the same applies to his male characters as well.

>>86862032
>third wave feminist
The more I read about 3rd wave feminism, the more I cringe about a 4th wave.

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>>86861755
>thinking it would just be an easy Google ™
>mfw there is a queer-dictionary with these terms defined

queerdictionary.blogspot.com/2014/09/definition-of-cishet.html?m=1

I'm walking away from the keyboard. inb4 phone posting.

>>86862447
>People who are cishet arguably form most of the human population
>arguably

>>86862498
Don't forget how they sneer at cishets as "breeder", as if that's supposed to be insulting.

>>86857879
A Sneed of Feed

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>>86862447
>Karen is a dedicated ally-- she's a cishet but goes to Pride every year to show support for her dads
>mfw I read this

>tfw we will never get a series exploring the Far East lands like Yi Ti and the city of the winged men etc
Also I think RR would make a better movie than a series budgetwise

>>86862759
I mean, I sorta get why LGBT think this way because all their lives, they were subjected to hetero cisgender people being the norm and they're pushing back at those conventions. But give it another 10-20 years, we're gonna see major blowback from all this shit.

>>86862971
We might, but with only Asian actresses if they ever do Yi Ti and other places in far Essos. Nobody wants to watch Asian dudes.

>>86859709
I didn't read of Bosniaks and Serbs.

>>86861692
That's one sticking point, but I think it could have been remedied by having Stannis and Jon rebuilding the castles along the Wall/settling wildlings in the Gifts/Stannis rallying as much support as possible during those five years. When we return after the gap, it might have been to Stannis finally marching on Deepwood Motte, and possibly Jon ranging in the north, looking for wildling stragglers. Jon hears about Hardhome, realizes he'll need ships to transport the women and children, then returns to Castle Black.

I've read all the books, I remember enjoying the first 3 and struggling to get through 4 and 5. I watched the first 3 seasons of the TV series and stopped because it started diverging from the books too much for my liking. At this point I can barely remember what happens in the books beyond the very broadest strokes of the plot, and I don't know if I intend to read the 6th when it comes out.

>>86862982
>pushing back against reality

yeah good luck

>>86861948
All of this, plus observing the fall of the Brotherhood under LSH, the pure bookino that is Septon Meribald and the broken men speech, the Quiet Isle and a conclusion to Sandor's character arc, the near-mythical status of "the Hound" pillaging the riverlands (whoever wears his helmet is referred to as the Hound, sorta like Dread Pirate Roberts), the comfy RPG quest deep into Crackclaw Point, based Randyll Tarly verbally BTFOing Brienne at every opportunity, the final fate of the Bloody Mummers. Brienne is the second best POV in the books, after Jaime.

>>86863090
No way would Stannis wait that long to liberate Deepwood Motte. He needs to rally the North behind him so he'd do the same thing as he did in ADWD. He'd probably gather all the allies he could get his hands on, Davos retrieves Rickon so the North has a Stark again. The Boltons would be double-fucked since they have nobody left to help them. It's even possible that Stannis reoccupies Winterfell with Northmen and Mountain Clansmen help with Rickson safe in White Harbor. The North can circle around the Dreadfort since it's winter and just isolate them for the time being.

I do agree that Jon and Stannis would be refortifying the Wall and settling the Wildlings in an uneasy alliance with the rest of the North. Stannis' ships would be used to ferry all the wildlings at Hardhome and we might even see a confrontation with the Others & Wights just like the TV series. Stannis would also receive the loans from the Iron Bank so he's got plenty of capital to buy food and seed for the Northmen and his troops. Not to mention weapons, supplies, and probably even mercenaries to buffer up his forces.

I'm also willing to bet that Stannis would mine the shit out of every bit of dragonglass in Dragonstone and then abandon it so that all his troops are now in the North and ready at the Wall.

Meanwhile, Cersei can't do shit because winter's come and she's got enough of her own problems. I doubt the Greyjoys will bother Stannis even though he has Asha and possibly Theon as hostages. The only stumbling blocks are Young Griff and Daenerys (whenever they come).

>>86863282
>the fall of the Brotherhood under LSH
Absolutely. It's really sad how Berric's original mission in protecting and feeding the smallfolk got hijacked by Stoneheart's quest for vengeance. I'm just hoping that based Edric Dayne and his followers are continuing Beric's fight as their own faction.

>the pure bookino that is Septon Meribald and the broken men speech
That alone is one of the best speeches about how the common man suffers from war. And those fuckwits in HBO didn't even have the decency to do it.

>the comfy RPG quest deep into Crackclaw Point, based Randyll Tarly verbally BTFOing Brienne at every opportunity, the final fate of the Bloody Mummers.
This is Brienne (and Pod) raising their stats. They're the only one doing one of those knight's errant from fantasy within the context of Westeros. And she's slowly but surely building her experience and legend as a descendant of Dunk.

>>86863053
We just need a Lomas Longstrider series where he discovers the wonders of the world

>>86863220
Pushing back as in, they're pushing back against what society's been dictating to them for decades and wanting to be treated with dignity and respect.

>>86863053
Why not? Can white people not pay attention for more than two minutes if there isn't another white person on screen?

>>86863532
That'd be comfy as fuck. It's like a fantasy Marco Polo.

>>86863579
People tend to want to watch actors that they can relate to. This is why the vast majority of casting in US shows and movies are full of white people because whites are still the majority. There is a growing trend in having more black actors with a smattering of Latin American and Asian, but TV is a business first and foremost. White viewers would be turned-off of watching a show with nothing but Asian people.

>>86863499
The sad thing is, they had Ian McShane as the Meribald stand-in, and he would've been the perfect actor to deliver the broken men speech. Hell, he even gave a shitty D&D version of the speech in his episode, but it sucked so bad that it had no lasting effect at all.

>>86863629
This has always made zero sense to me. POC watch white people on their screens all the time and don't turn it off because they don't see someone that looks like them on it. If you can sit through a film about inanimate objects, then you can sit through a film with coloured people.

>>86863777
I'm not surprised. Benioff and Weiss lack the ability to pull this off. I hate how these 2 fuckwits were the ones in charge of adapting ASOIAF.

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>>86858038
>and one of Jon's best moments in ADWD when he married Alys off to the new Magnar
ADWD was basically a 1000 page argument to why Jon would be the best king for Westeros. The guy is tough and clever as shit. He singlehandedly saves Stannis' campaign from failure while also managing the Night's Watch. It's also justified that he cracks at the end.

Nuances completely lost in the show. Nuances that make or break a story.

>>86863629
But I enjoy k-dramas full of gooks and I'm a pasty white.

>>86863952
The show and books have opposite problems.

The show is fast and rushed, where entire plot points get ignored and wasted because showrunners want a character in a certain place or time. Books have the opposite problem. Each act takes hundreds of pages. Kingsmoot? For some reason we needed 200 pages of that. Brienne walking the country side? For some reason we needed 5 chapters for that. GRRM and D&D are polar opposites. One wants to build worlds and more and more characters and the other just wants to cut all shit and get to the meat of it, failing at it.

I wish we had a balance of these two extremes. But we don't. So we're stuck with a poor show and an unfinished book series with more and more bloat added by the page.

>>86863879
That's because white is the default and everyone likes watching white people. Inanimate objects are fake, but seeing non-white actors is real life. I don't agree with this line of thought, but people are more bigoted than society cares to admit.

>>86863969
Yeah, ADWD really warmed me up to Jon. I always liked his POV, since you see the Wall/Night's Watch/beyond the Wall from his perspective, but as a character, he's sort of a one-note sullen shithead for three books. As soon as he takes command of the Wall when Mance attacks, he becomes much more interesting, and feels like a mini-Ned, but much more pragmatic, which I really like.

I liked all of them. Especially feast and dance.
Feast and dance where fantastic because they are basicly the same book in the same time frame.
All george did was separate the characters like flavors in ice cream.
Do you like drama or do you like action?
Both where good books and both had their ups and downs.
Its why the dany chapters seem to go on forever.
Feast and dance are all technically one book.
And i for one cant wait to see how the books diverge from the tv show.

>>86855640
It's going to be Daniel Abraham or whatever his name is. He's Gurm's best buddies and hes collaborated with Gurm in the past. If anybody finishes ASoIaF it'll be him.

>>86854234
Holy shit his interpretation of the sex scenes was fantastic

>>86857628
The amount of shit hitting the fan in the upcoming book is making me want to start reading.

>>86863969
I beg to differ. It's a study of how a brave and dutiful character with good intentions can still fuck things up. Ned was a breakdown of what's wrong with conventional fantasy because it ignores human emotions and failings. Jon is Ned 2.0 in that he KNOWS that other people don't adhere to his sense of honor or arguments in solving problems but he still fumbles the ball by not being able to sell it properly. Jon made a lot of critical errors in ADWD alongside his far-reaching actions.

>It's also justified that he cracks at the end.
And this is why I hope we don't see Jon get rezzed soon. He needs to take a step back and deal with the repercussions of his actions like being stuck in Ghost or something.

>He singlehandedly saves Stannis' campaign from failure while also managing the Night's Watch
And this is definitely something the show should've done more of. Jon was treading carefully with maintaining his duty as Lord Commander, but he also knew that giving Stannis help was the best chance for the North and the Wall to prepare against the Others. If the Boltons had defeated Stannis, the North would be weakened and divided while Jon is fucked beyond belief. No way would the Boltons help the Watch out.

>>86864057
I hear ya. I don't mind cutting some of the fat off the books, but there's a ton of story material that should've been retained. All the audience and showrunners care about is Michael Bay-level action sequences instead of getting into the meat-and-bones of what makes ASOIAF intriguing: the characters and how they interact with the greater world.

>>86864232
Martin said the manuscript was physically too large to be made into one book. Why is this? Would a 2000 page book not be able to hold together? I suppose it would be fucking enormous, but I wouldn't have a problem with it. Couldn't they make the type one size smaller, and use those tissue-thin pages that Bibles always seem to have?

>>86864146
>As soon as he takes command of the Wall when Mance attacks, he becomes much more interesting, and feels like a mini-Ned, but much more pragmatic, which I really like.
That's because AGOT, ACOK, and ASOS was Jon learning and developing as a man and as a member of the Night's Watch. Jon in AGOT wouldn't have been able to do any of the diplomacy and organization as LC in AFFC/ADWD.

Like Mance's son and Gilly. AGOT Jon would've been a softy, but ADWD Jon knew he had to send Mance's son (and Maester Aemon) away so that Melisandre doesn't burn them.

>>86864320
TWOW is going to be ASOS tier, but even better. We all know the final chapter will have The Wall collapse and the Others & Wights breaking through.

>>86850159
Finland

>>86864416
Yeah, I liked that about Sam's POV. When he speaks to Jon about leaving, he's fumbling and stuttering about it, then Jon tells him to man the fuck up, stop calling himself a coward, and "stuff your smallclothes into a sack, and leave by first light", to which Sam thinks "this wasn't Jon speaking, this was the Lord Commander." A nice indication of the growth Jon's gone through.

>>86844340
Have read better books with the FORGOTTEN REALMS™ logo at the top (as a joke of course). Still better books.

>>86850103
Reek chapters.

Bran chapters were fucking awesome, all that lore.

I've only read the books and have seen almost none of the HBO series.
It's alright but extremely overrated and it's annoying that people treat GRRM like the second coming of Tolkien while better authors in the genre get ignored. Dance with dragons was also incredibly boring.
In fact I'd say that his superhero series "Wildcards" is arguably better and more original than GoT and was more deserving of an adaptation.

>>86864518
Lad, Forgotten Realms is fucking cringey Dungeons and Dragons bullshit. At least ASoIaF has believeable characters and (in books one to three), a tight, focused plot.

>>86864105
That may have been the case a few decades ago, but we have more 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants of non-white decent. These people want representation, and Hollywood can only ignore them for so long. Either audiences are really thick, or Hollywood perpetuates the myth that they are. I'm sure people would be happy to see stories from a different perspective, and experience things outside their normal world view. Hollywood needs to stop whitewashing, and the white inserts.

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>>86851516
>eating kapsalon
Turkish shit meat with soft fries and days old veggies covered in cheap cheese,, absolutely disgusting

>>86864551
>while better authors in the genre get ignored4

such as... ?

>>86864516
Yep. Remember how Jon didn't sit down and eat with his friends because he was the LC and had to distance himself? And Sam's chapter had the other Watchmen complain about Jon not being himself and being high-and-mighty as the new LC? Stuff like that is what makes GRRM's writing fun to read.

Like the 2 different perspectives in AFFC and ADWD while Jon's writing the letter to Cersei. We saw Sam's POV about Jon trying to juggle the NW neutrality, Stannis, and the Lannisters and then we saw what was going on in Jon's mind during that same scene in ADWD.

Most writers tend to make another character suffer in an important moment to prop up another's POV. GRRM gave his us 2 presentations of the same moment and neither Jon nor Sam was fully right or wrong. That's real life and it's moments such as this that made AFFC and ADWD worth the wait.

>>86864625
>Either audiences are really thick, or Hollywood perpetuates the myth that they are.
It's a little bit of both. Let's not pretend there's still quite a bit of white shitheads who don't anything that's not WASP on TV/film and think everything is an attack on the white race. Or the fact that Hollywood is full of old white dudes who have no clue about modern society and are too afraid of bucking the trend or taking a risk so they just want to make a quick buck without even trying.

And we're not even scratching the surface with things like raceswapping and monochrome casting.

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>>86858029
>it's actually GRRM and his publisher passive aggressively arguing online

>>86864663
Personally I like Alan Dean Foster, EE Knight or R.A. Salvatore's earlier stuff more. If we're talking purely dark fantasy I'd say that a lot of the Warhammer novels have more entertainment value (though that's really all they offer).
Depends on what you're looking for though, I read fantasy novels for entertainment. Plus I never got much of a "deeper meaning" out of GRRM's novels. The first 3 are good but he loses focus after that.

>>86864694
I'm on the last hundred or so pages of Feast, this discussion has me pumped for Dance now. I'm excited to see how Jon changes after being rezzed (assuming he does actually get rezzed). Like it was mentioned ITT, it seems like Jon may have warged into Ghost right as he died, which might preserve his humanity, unlike Beric and Catelyn. It will be interesting to see how his character changes, based on the parallels between Jon and Ned, with Jon getting a second chance.

>>86864887
>>86864663
Oh and Patrick Rothfuss is doing a pretty good job with the King Killer books.

Does the show ever talk about the gigantic wolf pack that's destroying entire villages?
They mention it in a side conversation in the novel and then never talk about it again.

>>86864991
Jon will deal with Ghost's feral nature. Jon will have to embrace the full facet of his Stark heritage.

Somebody else from a while back that while Jon wargs into his Ghost, his body might get hijacked by the Night's King. That would be pretty awesome if we see "Jon" as a servant to the Others while Jon's soul is in his direwolf and trying to deal with it.

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>>86857476
Blackfyre pretender fucking shits leave.

>>86864785
Still salty about Matt Damon and the Wall of China.

Although I understand the use of positive discrimination as a means to break down barriers, I wish we had more original characters from minority backgrounds. Instead of a brown Wolverine, I'd rather have an original character that actually told the story that could be relatable to someone growing up from that kind of background.

Books 1-3 are pure fantasykino
After that the stories everyone cared about were ending and he decided to introduce like 100 new characters from Dorne and the Iron Islands that no one cares about and now there's way too many loose threads which he will never be able to bring together in a satisfying way

>>86865093
Pre-ASOIAF had so many awesome characters.

Based Bloodraven and his half-brother Bittersteel, Roddy the Ruin, Addam Velaryon, Baelor Breakspear, the Laughing Storm, Ser Raymund Fossoway, Maynard Plumm, the list just go on and on.

>>86865151
House of undying was so good. I like Dorne story. Areo is my nigga. Iron Islands are good too. Victarion chapters are good.

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>>86864999
havent hit your (you) quota for today?

>>86850159
the german one looks really classy but i like the france 2 version better

>>86865137
New characters don't sell is the problem.

>>86865087
What's the time limit on a warg living inside their animal? Varamyr lasts at least a few months in his wolf, and the eagle guy Jon kills made it from the Skirling Pass almost to the Wall, so I'm guessing Meli rezzes Jon in a fairly timely fashion. I'm just worried that GRRM rushes it, and it comes off as cheap.

On the other hand, do you think he has the balls to let Jon die permanently? He clearly had more in store for Jon's character, and the aforementioned parallels between him and Ned are sort of pointless if Jon just goes out the same way Ned did, so I think a resurrection was the initial plan, but does the show making the reveal change his mind?

>>86844477
If you took out the Sansa and Danny chapters, the later books were actually pretty good.

>>86865235
Cregan Stark is a favorite of mine, even though he didn't really do much.

>>86865252
Its not bait. GRRM is overrated thanks to the popularity of the HBO series. His first 3 books are great but they aren't ground breaking.

>>86865287
I think that the longer you stay in an animal, you run a greater risk of losing your humanity. I think Jon is going to be stuck in Ghost for a couple months at least.

As for GRRM changing things in the future books, I have a suspicion he might. He probably told the showrunners a few ideas that he was willing to try and they went on and did them. He's using the show as a test-bed to gauge those ideas and what to do for TWOW and ADOS.

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>>86853067
>is wrong
>"that was just my opinion"
>d-don't get all offended

Well your opinion is wrong you fucking idiot.

>>86865368
I'd say they're fairly groundbreaking in that he was the first author since Tolkien to really elevate the genre of fantasy into something accessible to normies that's worthy of respect.

>>86865267
Nigga, what?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxQYLWljCvI

Pure fantasyhorror.

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Tfw never hear this on the show
>Gather round me, men. I know what you are feeling. I have felt the same myself, a hundred times. Your breath is coming faster than it should. In your belly a knot of fear coils like a cold black worm. You feel as though you need to empty your bladder, maybe move your bowels. Your mouth is dry as the sands of Dorne. What if you shame yourself out there, you wonder? What if you forget all your training? You yearn to be a hero, but deep down inside you fear you might be craven.
Every boy feels the same way on the eve of battle. Aye, and grown men as well. Those Stormcrows over there are feeling the same thing. So are the Dothraki. There is no shame in fear, unless you let it master you. We all taste terror in our time, but take care you do not seek death out there, for you will surely find it. The Stranger comes for all of us, but we need not rush into his arms.
Whatever might befall us on the battlefield, remember, it has happened before, and to better men than you. I am an old man, an old knight, and I have seen more battles than most of you have years. Nothing is more terrible upon this earth, nothing more glorious, nothing more absurd. You may retch. You will not be the first. You may drop your sword, your shield, your lance. Others have done the same. Pick it up and go on fighting. You may foul your breeches. I did, in my first battle. No one will care. All battlefields smell of shit.
You may cry out for your mother, pray to gods you thought you had forgotten, howl obscenities that you never dreamed could pass your lips. All this has happened too.
Some men die in every battle. More survive. East or West, in every inn and winesink you will find greybeards endlessly refighting the wars of their youth. They survived their battles. So may you.

>>86865087

That's some straight up Tobias-esque animorphs bullshit.

>>86854338
his ego won't allow someone else to write it for him

>>86865368
And i agree wholeheartly. Recommending Rothfuss tho? hes even beyond fatman georgie

>>86865318
Cregan is god-tier. I had no idea that a Stark served as Hand of the King even if it was only for a day. Cregan did more in a day than most men could do in a lifetime. And despite being a loyal follower of Rhaenyra, even Cregan couldn't abide the idea of poisoners killing Aegon II, thus punishing all of those complicit with it except for Corlys Velaryon. The Starks served House Targaryen faithfully and Aerys as well as Rhaegar were retarded as fuck to piss on them.

It sucked that Cregan's son and heir Rickon fought with Prince Daeron in the Conquest of Dorne and died from it. The death of Rickon plunged the North into mini civil wars because of the messy issue of succession thanks to his half-brothers.

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>>86844394
Here's what /lit/ thinks of the books and GRRM. Fitting that this thread is on /tv/, alongside capeshit, where it belongs.

>>86865428
Tolkien didn't make the genre accessible, the movies did.

they were considered the best fantasy series, together with malazan

>>86865453
Heh heh, I was a big fan of those books as a kid and it was exactly Tobias that I was thinking of when considering Jon being stuck in Ghost. You have to admit that the hero being trapped in his faithful beast is something we don't see too often in fantasy.

>>86850159

As someone who speaks a lot of languages, all of these book titles are retarded. Literally none of them mean anything even close to "A Game of Thrones".

>>86865448
Fucking Barristan the Based.

>such an amazing fighter, he beats the Titan's Bastard (who's using a sword) with a stick
>parries his blade with such ease, GRRM describes it as "contemptuously"
>absolutely BTFO's a fighting pit champion less than half his age

>>86865448
This was the last straw for me. McElhinney raised a good point about how the show was going and what did they do? Have his character killed off. That's unprofessional as fuck.

>>86865511
Out of curiosity why is Rothfuss worse than GRRM?

>>86865564
Maybe accessible was the wrong word, but Tolkien elevated the genre to something more than just pulp magazine garbage. ASoIaF is undeniably something more than just Forgotten Realms/Dungeons & Dragons/Conan/paper-thin, two dimensional "hero's journey", dark lord fantasy drek.

>>86865595
Lmao I find this funny as fuck. Translate a few for me?

>>86865742
ASOIAF is a Western pulp version of China's Romance of the 3 Kingdoms in my opinion. GRRM made a fantasy epic that focuses primarily on the people, not the backdrop, mystical creatures, or whatnot.

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>>86865603
>>86865694
and we instead got a whole season of le witty meme dwarf telling cock jokes,

>>86865742
I found the gimmick of "anyone can die" to have gotten old very quickly. His writing carries a "there are no heroes" mentality and it gets exhausting.

>>86865595
Well that german edition for one actually splitted martins books in half thus there being ten Books that need names. But ye its all just publishers marketing bullshit

>>86855928
>jon is entitled
i think you need to read again, jon snow is 10000 times more likable in the books than in the series

>>86865267
I think this would be less of a problem for non-cape films. But, if I'm not mistaken, comics are struggling with selling their normal stuff, let alone new heroes.

>>86865709
Its pretty simple, cause the little work he has done is worse then grrms, and that by miles. whats there to be curious about?

>>86865967
Honestly, the "anyone can die" thing is overblown because of Ned's execution and the Red Wedding. Aside from Ned and Robb, very few major POV characters die and stay dead.

>>86865783

Most of them simply mean some uninspired variation of "The Iron Throne" or "The Throne of Swords", but there are some even less descriptive ones like "The Lord of Winterfell" and "In the Age of Wolves".

>>86866003
I remember everyone loved Stannis because this was something he didn't choose, and he saw it as his duty. He even says so in one chapter. Jon is literally the same. He never wanted any of these responsibilities, he was just looking for somewhere to escape the curse of being a bastard; somewhere to belong.

What are your top 5 PoVs lads?

1. Jaime
2. Theon
3. Davos
4. Sansa
5. Cersei

>>86865900
Based Barristan slaying Maelys the Monstrous is why we need to see a big-budget well-casted professionally written depiction of the War of the Ninepenny Kings. The Band of Nine themselves are fascinating as fuck as villains:

- The Old Mother, a pirate queen
- Samarro Saan, the Last Valyrian, another pirate leader
- Xhobar Qhoqua, the Ebon Prince, an exile prince from the Summer Isles who founded and led a sellsword company in the Disputed Lands
- Liomond Lashare, the Lord of Battles, a famed sellsword captain.
- Spotted Tom the Butcher, from Westeros, captain of a free company in the Disputed Lands.
- Ser Derrick Fossoway, the Bad Apple, an exile from Westeros, a knight with a black reputation.
- Nine Eyes, captain of the Jolly Fellows
- Alequo Adarys, the Silvertongue, a Tyroshi merchant prince, ambitious and wealthy.
- Maelys I Blackfyre, the Monstrous, captain-general of the Golden Company.

Not to mention, this is where Jon Arryn met his fellow Lords Paramount; Ormund Baratheon (who got killed and his son Steffon stepped up as the new Stormlands Lord), Rickard Stark, and Hoster Tully. This is what would later lead to the Alliance in Robert's Rebellion.

We'd also see young Tywin Lannister fight bravely (Tytos didn't show up) and young Aerys get knighted by his best buddy Tywin. In fact, I'd kill to see an episode or two of young Tywin, Aerys, and Steffon being bros in King's Landing. I wonder if Tywin felt closer to Steffon after falling out with Aerys and was smug at the thought of Steffon's son Robert being King?

Hell even the Greyjoys showed up to help with hundreds of longship because Quellon was a pretty cool dude unlike his shit son Balon.

>>86865526
>9 sentences
>out of a saga that not only has more than a million words in total, but it wasn't even praised by its prose, which it's regular
GRRM writing style is serviceable, it's mostly plain and straight to the point, and when he tries he can write something somewhat emotional, but that's not his strong point.

>>86866017
Marvel and DC both tried to make changes to their normal stuff and were met with mixed results. DC tried a reboot while Marvel tried giving well-known characters a new gender or skin color. Marvel also grabbed a bunch of unknown writers and artists of questionable talent and let them run wild. I think there's a significant gap in quality between Jane Foster as Thor and Thor as Thor.
Non-cape films would have a much easier time because then it would just rely on the ability of the director/writer. If John Wick had been black instead of white nothing would change.
Personally I don't really understand this idea of not being able to empathize with a character that doesn't match your skin color.

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>>86866138
>no catelyn

>>86866175
don't forget Jorah making a name for himself and killing blackfyre shits

>>86866112
Kek, this is really cracking me up for some reason. Reminds me of the complaints after Hodor/Hold the door, because "Hold the door" in other languages sounds nothing like "Hodor"

>>86866003
Not that anon, but remember in AGOT how he beat the shit out of the other Night's Watch recruits and thought he was better than them? The show touched upon this, but the book explored it even further. Like how Jon was sullen at being a Steward, but realized that Mormont was grooming him for command.

AGOT Jon was very different from the guy we'd see in ADWD. To be fair he was a 14-year-old kid who didn't realize what he was getting into, but he eventually manned up thanks to the Old Bear and Maester Aemon guiding him.

>>86866138
1. Jaime
2. Brienne
3. Ned
4. Theon/Reek
5. Davos

>>86866057
What makes it worse, specifically or are you just memeing?
Kvothe's journey from orphan to mary-sue to broken down shadow of his former self is infinitely more interesting than any of the major character arcs in GoT so far.

>>86866225
I love Catelyn's chapters too, it was hard to choose just 5.

I don't understand why plebs hate her so much, she has some of the best chapters in the series. "M-muh Jon" faggotry is too strong I guess.

>>86848732
Unless he signed with a specific deadline in mind, he can literally fuck around until he dies without doing them.

The contract is to ensure that he doesn't go around to different publishers.

>>86866231
Jorah was only a kid when the Ninepenny War broke out. Jorah fought in Robert's Rebellion as well as the Greyjoy Rebellion. It was the Greyjoy Rebellion that earned him his knighthood when he was the 1st man to storm Pyke.

No love for Bran chapters, they were oozing darkness and mythos.

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Out of the way, REAL fantasy coming through

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>>86862498
>arguably

triggered me too m8. It's just a not-so-subtle reminder that you are forever inferior cis-scum.

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>mfw GRRM said Jaime's chapters were some of the hardest for him to write
>they're also some of the best, if not the best
Man I am dreading his inevitable death. I think it's pretty clear that the Starks, Tyrion and Dany are the ones GRRM really cares about and will probably make it through the series.

>>86866223
>Personally I don't really understand this idea of not being able to empathize with a character that doesn't match your skin color.
That's because you're a reasonable person. Individuals are level-headed, but people can be shitty.

>>86866381
I fucking loved Bran's ADWD chapters.

Never cared for them before, but the spoopy atmosphere really clicked for me in ADWD. There's something really unsettling about them.

>>86866445
Makes you wonder what the rest of this text says in GRRM's original pitch.

http://imgur.com/fvvTPYi

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this shit being released as a movie literally ruined my life. I used to have a girl who I beta orbited for a while and I did it by stealing the personality of Tyrion, I even made jokes from the books. I even wrote a love story for her one day that was just the red wedding but i replaced robb with her boyfriend, her with queen talisa, and myself with roose bolton. she was mad at the story but forgave me because she thought i was creative and let me hang around near her. when the fucking show came out and the normies raved she watched it and realised what i was doing and got mad.

>>86866223
Well, hopefully things start to change. Sad to think it may take another generation or two.

>>86866535
>I even wrote a love story for her one day that was just the red wedding but i replaced robb with her boyfriend, her with queen talisa, and myself with roose bolton
this is fake right?

>>86866381
This

The best chapters in the series were Bran's an Jon's chapters when beyond the wall

The fight at Fist of the First Men was GOAT

Nearing the bump limit, lads. Best ASoIaF thread I've seen in months, seven blessings.

>>86866535
There's no way this is real but I wish it was

>>86850973

Is that Kevin Costner?

>>86866535
That's gay. I think you may be gay now.

>>86866590
Fist of the First Men was a Sam chapter, but I do agree to some extent.

>>86866590
>The fight at Fist of the First Men was GOAT
The fact that we didn't get to see this nightmarefuel in the show pissed the fuck out of me. That whole sequence was terrifying as fuck.

>>86865526
Asimov was a notoriously bad writer too, but he's also regarded as one of the great authors of the 20th century.

>>86866594
On 2017 /tv/ no less. Christ the /got/ general is such shit, I really wish we could have some good asoiaf discussion from time to time.

>>86866594
>>86866668
Apparently the secret is making this shit book focused. Normie redditors pass it over for the more memeworthy show discussion.

>>86865137
Why is that anyone's duty to deal with except for those who feel underrepresented?

>>86866668
That's because /got/ generals have people who don't read the books.

>>86866648
That would have been amazing to see. The sense that they were fighting an unwinnable battle. Seeing the dead come at them. The feeling of utter despair.

>>86866285
Im not memeing. I think it the absolut worst bottom of the barrel diartribe ive ever read.
Grrm at least tried to give the genre some fresh spice, while Rothfuss just run with the most boring fantasy world tropes and unimaginative themes he could find. Its like a real shitty d&d campaign some neckbeardy nerd came up with, and then he invites his friends to play and he´ll gonna be the game master but brings his own character cause the adventure is all about him to act out his fantasy, while on the other hand someone like grrm atleast has the tendency to let his friends be the players

>>86866731
Didn't use to be like this a couple of years ago though. I remember season 3 /got/ generals and they were full of great book discussion.

>>86866663
because he saw a purpose in writing books, he came up with so much science accurate shit he pretty much invented the concept of an air scrubber after some nasa scientist asked him about how it would be possible to recycle air in a space station
he was a shit writer but he knew his shit

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>>86866767
Yep. The Battle at the Fist of First Men made the Hardhome episode and the recent Capture a Wight mission look like easymode. They tried everything to stop them even fire arrows. And there were multiple zombie bears attacking the Night's Watch group.

Even in the books, the Wights are 10 times more dangerous. You cut a limb off of one of them? The limb still moves and will try to attack you while the body is still up and moving.

>>86866822
Probably because the book readers got pissed at what the show became or they lost interest and moved on.

>>86866718
Because the power is asymmetrical. Attitudes need to be changed top and bottom. Also, if you expect people to be loyal to the country they live in you need to give them agency and equal representation.

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>>86861450
>Sybell plotted with Tywin to fuck over Robb and made sure her daughter wasn't pregnant with Stark babies so that Tyrion could knock up Sansa as the sole descendant of Ned

Sybell Spicer was cunningly playing both ends right from the start; if Robb won the war, her daughter would be queen but if Tywin won the war, Houses Westerling and Spicer would be safe.

Sybell magicked Robb and Jeyne into falling in love, then she insured Jeyen wouldn’t get pregnant unless and until Robb won the war.

When Tywin and House Tyrell defeated Stannis at the Blackwater and the Freys bailed on Robb, Sybell got in contract with Tywin to explain what she was doing, spinning it that she had been loyal to House Lannister all along and Jeyen hopping in bed with Robb had been a mistake by a stupid girl.

The marriage of Sansa to Tyrion took place weeks after the Battle of the Blackwater and was a quick reaction to House Tyrell secretly planning on marrying Sansa to Willias, which caught Tywin unaware.

Sybell Spicer initiated the events that would lead to the Red Wedding (though she personally didn’t know would happen).

But instead of all that, the tv show gave us Talisa the SJW...

>>86866668
>>86866717
I have a thread on /lit/ going, if you guys want to continue discussing the books. Remember it is /lit/, and we may get laughed off the board.

>>9938526
>>9938526
>>9938526

>>86866926
Yeah I guess. I still watch it but I really get nothing out of it anymore.

I used to get really pissed off at the show, but for the last 2-3 seasons I just don't care anymore. I think it was Stannis burning Shireen that really made me completely disconnect with it. Now I'm just watching it out of habit I guess, plus all my friends and coworkers won't shut up about GoT.

>>86866958
Equal representation or proportional representation?

>>86867076
Looks like it's dead friendo.

>>86867010
I was so pissed at her. How could she do that to her daughter. Her husband and king are murdered at a wedding, she was lucky not to be there. Secretly kept giving her a morning after tea to rob her of a kid. At least Jamie put her in her place.

>>86867173
Equal.

>>86867271
Why should anyone be obligate to give equal representation to a group that is a lesser percentage of the population, much less a business?

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>>86858296
>The 3 possibilities are:
>- Aurane is a pirate king in the Stepstones as it was alluded in AFFC.
>- Aurane is hedging his bets and waiting to join with Daenerys
>- Aurane is allocating his forces and will bring the royal fleet to Stannis when the time is right.

I think Aurane the Pirate King is the best bet.

He probably would have sided with Aegon the Reconqueror (what little is known about Daenerys is that she's staying in Meereen) but there's no mention of that and as far as everybody in south knows, Stannis is fucked and freezing his balls off way up north and no longer a threat.

>>86848962
Wouldn't he just have to give back the advance and maybe a small penalty

It's annoying how different they made Cersei and Littlefinger. Cersei is not this calm but vengeful person; she's a lot more like Joffrey and less like Tywin than she realises. Littlefinger really is quite great in the books. He plays Cersei (and even Tyrion) like a fiddle, he works with the Tyrells but thwarts their plans to marry Sansa off, he kills Joffrey to allow Sansa to escape, but in a way where she'll be isolated and rely on him. People are nothing but a game to him.

They've also ruined Varys (and Illyrio seems to have vanished from existence) by removing Aegon. Their "bare bones" approach to the series has resulted in small changes becoming fairly significant. I suppose the destination the core, main characters will be at will remain the same.

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>>86863777
>The sad thing is, they had Ian McShane as the Meribald stand-in, and he would've been the perfect actor to deliver the broken men speech.

McShane would have been perfect for the Elder Brother of Quiet Isle, pic related for Septon Meribald.

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>>86864322
> All the audience and showrunners care about is Michael Bay-level action sequences

Don’t blame the audience for Dumb & Dumbers lack of talent and complete failure, people will watch good art if it’s presented to them (and the Internet says it’s good) but they’ll also watch absolute trash, (especially if the Internet says it’s good) as tv is the modern day equivalent of sitting around staring into the camp fire.

>>86867347
So people shouldn't be given equal opportunities to audition for roles because of the proportion of the population they make up? Makes sense. I'd like to here your justification for whitewashing.