>"Ned was an idiot" What did Ned do wrong besides

He made a promise he couldn't keep. Jon got murdered.

>>86530130
Marry that old cunt Catelyn

He went against his gut instinct and trusted little finger

>>86530130
His only mistake was being the only honorable man in a world full of cunts and assholes. It was a pretty big mistake.

>trusting a guy that runs a brothel in King's Landing

To be honest the entire initial premise and setup of the books is bizarrely convoluted.

John Arryn died and it is initially a mystery as who killed him but that fizzles out without major consequence.
Same thing about the dagger that the assassin had that tried to kill Bran.

He wasn't even an idiot, sure he lost "the game of thrones" and was basically an outcast, but he got a pretty sweet deal.

All he had to do was say he was a traitor and then get shipped off to his adopted son and live out his days as a crow fighting the good fight.

Joffrey fucked it up, and no one accounted for that, not even Cersei or Tywin.

>>86530130
He didn't do anything wrong. He got fucked over by Joffrey

>>86530130
He was an idiot for supporting Robert. He should have told him that Lyanna was not raped at all, and that he was just a cuck who needed to move on and get another pussy.

>>86530385
t. hasn't done a close reading of the books

>>86530130
He was not an idiot but nor was he a very good schemer

For those of us who read the book without knowing the story beforehand, how many of us knew how Ned should or shouldn't trust, what move he should or shouldn't make? Ned made some bad decisions in hindsight but he was also hampered by ill fate as well

Sansa leaked to Cersei which meant she was captured in the coup

The ambush by Jaime, which by coincidence was during the time Ned had given up his position as hand, left him crippled.

He lost a valuable week or more of time in bed and after that had to hobble around with a cane

Despite all that he discovered the truth was poised to act... but then Robert returned from the hunt fatally wounded

Had the plot to kill Robert in the hunt not succeeded then Ned would have won the game

The real idiot is Robert for not publicly announcing his will in front of the small counsel instead of privately to Ned.

>>86530130
Why did Ned tell Cersei in first place? Did he think that she'd change her life for better? Was it because he was honorable and didn't want to backstab her? Why is Littlefinger faggot? He was Ned's friend, what's his endgame?

He should have returned north and than made his play, doing it while in city controlled by lannisters was a major mistake

Lannisters would have no choice but to give up joffreys claim to the throne once armies of Starks, Arryns and Baratheons rolled up on them

The only mistake Ned make was being a loyal friend to a moron like Robert

>>86530938
That would not have mattered.

>>86530130
>who'd given him every reason to trust him to that point?
Littlefinger literally told Ned not to trust him.

>>86530130
>Didn't tell Robert about Lyanna being a dumb slut thus making Robert think that he missed the one true love, making him extremely depressed and hurling the realm towards utter decadence
>Blaming Jaime for killing the Mad King thus creating a lot of friction between the Lannisters and the Starks.
>Convinced Robert not to kill Dany
>increasing tension between house Lannister and house Stark even more by refusing to help Jaime find his brother.
>not heeding Renly's advice on Cersei and the Lannisters.
>not getting the fuck out of King's Landing as soon as he learned of Robert's "suspicious" death
>thus not uniting with Stannis and marching both of their combined forces against King's Landing and fucking shit up

tl;dr, Ned was extremely stupid.

>>86530130
He probably should've listened to that poor guy that tried to warn him about white walkers in the first episode. Ned deserved what he got.

>>86530130
implying thats is not enough

>>86530980
I can't remember, was Littlefinger aware of the plot to kill Robert?
He may have just been helping Ned to get cozier with Robert, when Ned got BTFO he had to rapidly shift.
I really can't remember all the context from the book though.

>>86530130
the plot decided he had to die

most characters still alive in the show are complete idiots except davos and the nightking, but the plot didnt protect them.

any other answer is false

Ned's father didn't prepare him for the intrigues of court politics.

He showed all his cards before playing them.

Didn't get Stannis and his men to the city the minute he became hand of the king.

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>>86531225
>you'll never see Stannis and Ned lead an army against King's Landing, killing every Lannister in their path and saving the seven kingdoms from The Others

>>86530385
what? arryn's death was a plot orchestrated by Littlefinger

>>86530462
>we'll never get to see Ned join the Night's Watch to fight off undead with his brother and son

why'd it have to be like this bros

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>>86531560
>>86531656

>>86531225
>Convinced Robert not to kill Dany
this actually didn't make a difference. by the time he had convinced him varys had already sent out the assassin, who failed.

>>86530130
>What did Ned do wrong besides warning Cersei

He went south for muh honor.

He wasn't realistic, he didn't learn from history (his ancestors were killed doing the same shit). He didn't listen to his wife and put his family and his country first.

>>86530311
>It was a pretty big mistake.

Actually I'd like to interject for a second. At the cost of death of him, wife, and two sons.
>his one daughter is an assassin
>his other daughter is practically queen of the north
>his son is the three eyed raven
>his nephew is about to fuck the queen of dragons

Ned's honor lead to all of this.

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>>86530130
>who'd given him every reason to trust him to that point?

Except for when he literally told him not to.

>>86531225
ditto. plus he acted as if honor was the most valuable thing in the world and everyone was honored as he was. he had it coming

>>86531731
>He wasn't realistic, he didn't learn from history (his ancestors were killed doing the same shit
his ancestors were killed because his brother ran in front of the keep and yelled for the prince's head, and his father answered a summon from a mad tyrant


it's pretty retarded to conflate that with just "going south"

>>86530130
he was a soldier, not a politician

>>86531225
Hate to admit but this is all valid. I liked Ned as a person but he was a simpleton.

>>86530719
It's really obvious GRRM doesn't know what he's doing anymore.

>Crows was shit
>Dragons was shit

Gee I sure wonder if Winds will be a good book or not.

>>86531911
best case scenario is he pulls a Robert Jordan

>>86530938
This. There should have been other witnesses.

>>86530980
I think he warned her so that she's escape and take the children with her. Even if she was guilty Ned knew the kids were innocent and if the incest were revealed they might die along with their mother (and Jaime).

>>86530130
>Trusted LF at all
>didn't immediately ship his daughters back to Winterfell when shit started going down
>renounced his power due to him pussing out about killing Dany and leading to Jaime fucking him up
>kept sending off his guards for every little thing, didn't bring enough in any case
>didn't let Loras take command of killing the Mountain
>Didn't demand Stannis return to KL at once with the Royal Fleet
>Didn't listen to Renly and take him up on his offer when Robert dies.
>Trusted Slynt and the Goldcloaks
>killed Lady

>>86530130
>>86530130
>Ned was an idiot.

It's true actually. Ned was an honorable man, the most honorable the series has had, BUT he's used very early on to show you that honorable men won't have the type of invincible plot armor on this show that they have in virtually every other fantasy before. And though some characters obviously have quite a bit of plot armor (Jon Snow for instance), NONE are invincible and it's truly one of the only fantasy universes that operates similar to our world. Being good is no guarantee of success just like being evil doesn't necessarily mean you'll be brought to justice.

Ned was honorable. Ned was brave. Ned was smart. But he has literally NO cunning or mind for politics, and is completely blind to the cunning political schemes of others. In any type of realist universe, Ned would always be the first to go...

Ned trusted a man who was ALWAYS after his wife's pussy and showed every sign that he still was, he trusted a brothel keeper and a man who ALWAYS manages to retain power regardless of who reigns (meaning that he'll always be working for the side he thinks can win, loyalty is fickle). He let Cersei know in advance what he was planning, giving her ample time to address the threat

Ned was an idiot. He acted every bit like one of the lawful good stooges in every fantasy series that always plays the hero. And he suffered the exact same fate he would in the real world. It was a really clever illustration that this is NOT any other fantasy series.

>>86531225
>>Didn't tell Robert about Lyanna being a dumb slut thus making Robert think that he missed the one true love, making him extremely depressed and hurling the realm towards utter decadence
I'm still hoping there will be something addressing this. At best, considering the show is now claiming Rhaegar ended his first marriage and likely married Lyanna, as dumb as that is, maybe Ned didn't want to break Robert's heart or something.
>>Blaming Jaime for killing the Mad King thus creating a lot of friction between the Lannisters and the Starks.
This was straight up stupid and hypocritical of Ned.

And I agree with the rest.

>>86530130
Season 1 Littlefinger was when Aiden actually tried to act like someone who could trick others into trusting him. After that he may as well have been twirling his mustache.

>>86532070
>And though some characters obviously have quite a bit of plot armor (Jon Snow for instance)
As much shit as Jon gets for being a lame character (and he is), I think he broke the Stark mold and was not honorable, at least from the start. Robb is a better example, since like Ned it was his sense of honor that did him and killed a lot of people. Jon on the other hand was willing to trick people, dump Ygritte when necessary and broke his vows. In a way it's probably while he lived longer than others while his attempt at making right by everyone is what got him stabbed, ultimately.

>>86532081
>This was straight up stupid and hypocritical of Ned.
How? Jaime was still sworn to defend Aerys, and everyone else ever has taken that oath pretty seriously. Jaime could have just held the mad king at sword point, or knocked him out until Ned shows up, he had already foiled his wildfire plans by killing the alchemist.

Ned never swore to protect Aerys, and although he wanted him dead for killing his father and brother, he didn't want a Kingsguard to do it.

Cersei sure was lucky that a pig managed to kill what once was the strongest man in the seven kingdoms so easily

>>86531977
I hope so, I like Sanderson's writing

>>86532223
It was autism, pure and simple. He knew the events that led to Aerys getting a sword in the back and he still gave Jaime shit for it when it was clearly an impossible situation to get out of. Ned similarly did "dishonorable" things but it's fine as long as he could justify it in some way?

>>86530604

You're right. This is what caused the rebellion.

If not for his honor and his promise, there would have been peace.

>>86530385
>>86530130

>Trusting a guy who wants to fuck your wife who was also humiliated and permanently scarred by your brother

Ned was a moron

>>86530604
I hadn't think about that. Fuck, Ned was such a coward. He was always looking for himself first.

>>86532345
He gave Jaime shit for it because he was Kingsguard and killed his King. It wasn't an impossible situation, he stopped the alchemists already, he could have just choked the King out and waited and it wouldn't have been so dishonorable.

The only dishonorable thing Ned did was keep Jon as his own, rather than see him killed by Robert. Saving his nephew's life by pretending he's your bastard is far less "dishonerable" than needlessly killing the King you were sworn to protect.

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>>86530604
>letting the mad king go unchecked
>the man who would burn people alive as trial
>the man who burned Ned's family
>the man who was going to blow all of Kings Landing away

Yeah, Ned was TOTALLY an idiot for not keeping the Targs in power.

>>86532223
>>86532558
Ned didn't even let Jaime explain what was happening. It's actually sad because Jaime really admired Ned Stark and felt treated unfairly by the way he was treated.

As for what he did with Jon, it was extremely honorable in a convoluted way. He put a mark of shame on his name and broke the heart of his wife by coming home with a child he claimed as his just so he could protect his life and his sister's last wish.

>>86530385
Beyond what others said, Littlefinger was obviously trying to manipulate Ned, anybody with an ounce of common sense would have seen that. When those farmers came to KL and complain about being attacked by the Mountain's men, the moment they dropped the sack of fish they left behind, Littlefinger did his best to imply that it was a message sent straight at him by the Lannisters, just so that Ned would stir shit up. Anybody else would have told Littlefinger to fuck off with his "subtleties" and would have never trusted him.

>>86530980
>>86530980
Ned has a very soft spot for children, even bastard children born of incest from enemy house. He spazzed out when he heard about Rhegar's children before the ToJ incident, and was still advocating to spare Danny despite her being more adult than child. Must be something to do with the fact that he's harbouring a Targ that should have been killed.

>>86530604
I think he overestimated how delusional and obsessed with the past Robert became.

While Ned eventually forgot about Ashara and built a happy and loving family while being a good warden of the North, Bobby kept obsessing with the rebellion as the greatest moment in his life and built up Lyanna as a perfect waifu that never existed while ignoring his duties as king and his 10/10 wife.

>reminder that Bobby B was the only man in the show that made Cersei laugh
>reminder that Bobby B is the only man that hit Cersei in her smug bitch face

>>86532846
She kind of laughed at Tyrion a few times.

>>86532345
>He knew the events that led to Aerys getting a sword in the back
No he didn't, Jaime explicitly told Brienne that he never told Ned the full story because he figured Ned judged him the moment he saw eyes on him.

From Ned's point of view Jaime stabbed the King in the back likely in service of his father.

>>86532882
At not with

>>86531748
>his daughter was mindbroken and became an assassin willing to threat her own sister
>her other daughter got raped and humiliated by two dipshits
>his son has autism, and most likely Bran is dead and it's just his 3-eyed raven inhabiting his body
>his nephew is going to bang his aunt, hung a child, let the wildlings into the country disgracing the night's watch, got killed and his best friend is Sam

It sounds like it lead to some pretty bad shit desu senpai.

>>86532935
To be fair to Ned, that is clearly what it looked like.

>>86532977
Yeah I know, Jaime never told the story to anyone, so everyone just naturally assumed he went turncloak for his father, which is a reasonable assumption.

>>86532935
It can be hard to remember these sorts of details because the show implied that Ned knew more about it and Jaime did sort of talk about it in his presence.

>>86531782

Sounds like being suicidely retarded is the Starks most notable trait and not muh honor.

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>>86532070
>meaning that he'll always be working for the side he thinks can win, loyalty is fickle

>not using a semicolon

i unironically think this post is very keen, though i wish its punctuation had more flourish

>>86533010
No it didn't. Brienne explicitly asks Jaime "Why didn't you tell Ned about this?" and he says something to the effect that Ned judged him the moment he walked in the Throne Room.

Jaime never told anyone aside from Brienne about why he did it, so everyone just assumed he did it for Tywin.

>>86533025
It only pops up occasionally, Ned's father didn't really act stupidly. Plus Benjen, Bran, Arya and Rickon seem relatively fine.

>>86533025
Ned's father in hindsight shouldn't have gone, but it was either show up to his son's trial or go in open rebellion when the King has his son hostage.

dude didn't really have a choice

Ned isn't dumb, he's just not cut out for scheming. He had a somewhat decent plan in place to remove Joffrey, but he trusted the wrong people and chose the wrong time and place to strike.

After all, he had the opportunity to get rid of the Lannisters by siding with Renly, but his honour and his support for Stannis stopped him.

>>86532085
I thought Littlefinger at least had subtlety that made sense up until this last season. He had himself well surrounded by allies (or at least all the allies that mattered). He always had himself in a position where he was relatively untouchable. He maneuvered all the key players from a position where he could never be blamed.

But this last season he's became fucking sloppily written, doing many things that the earlier seasons' wiser Littlefinger never would have done.

He never would have went to the Stark family crypt (a place where virtually anyone but the starks or the crypt's keepers would have been unwelcome), to tell Jon Snow that he wants to bang his sister and his dead step mom right next to his (alleged) dad's grave. He gave Bran the dagger meant to assassinate him which just reeks of creepiness and the fact that he probably had a hand in it. He never would have been so primitively playing the Stark girls that literally all they'd have to do is have a good honest chat to realize Littlefinger is fucking them all along. Also, why doesn't he go back to the Vale where he can play at being Sweet Robins Lord and Protector where he's in a relatively untouchable spot as long as he bring Robin gifts and stays in his favor.

He just literally makes no sense. He's behaving like a guy with a death wish. But I suppose that's how they have to write him for his final arc. The earlier seasons' Littlefinger would have essentially remained untouchable and a power behind the throne (whoever happened to sit on it) until he dies at the ripe old age of 90.

>>86532081
Ned didn't tell Robert because Robert was insane with rage and was fine with slaughtering targ women and children. What the fuck do you think he would have done to Jon if he knew the truth

Ned & Ashara is the best ship

>>86533065

>Benjen volunteered to join the Nights Watch and most likely was eager to go ranging with little support past the wall which got him killed
>Bran would climb on the roof of Winterfell like a retard

I'll give you Arya but Rickon isn't even a character so he doesn't count.

>>86533206
especially with Jon being Rhaegar and Lyanna's son

only a moron would tell robert. But he probably should've told Cat.

>>86533065
>Ned's father didn't really act stupidly.
Shame he still got one of the worst deaths mentioned. It sucks to be a Stark.

>>86533100

He had another son so putting himself on the line and abandoning the North like that was stupid. The Starks are about muh honor and duty only when it suits them.

>>86532709
>his 10/10 wife
that cheats on him with her own brother?

>>86532944
Nah, in the first three seasons Cersei and Tyrion used to get along pretty well.

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>>86533256
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>86533358
it was either that or declare open rebellion

nobody expected that King Aerys would murder him. He at least expected a trial.

>>86533289
>>Benjen volunteered to join the Nights Watch and most likely was eager to go ranging with little support past the wall which got him killed
Stark tradition and it was seen as a relatively honorable thing to do. Plus as nobility he wouldn't have it as bad as the lower level men. And he had support, he just encountered some supernatural shit out there.
>>Bran would climb on the roof of Winterfell like a retard
Nothing wrong with that.

>>86530462
Have you seen the show? he did admit he was a traitor and Joff still killed him.

>>86533199
Littlefinger in Episode 3 was absolutely pathetic. Not only that he made that absolutely bizarre speech to Jon, but he acted like a retard all around. He tells Sansa that he knows Cersei best, Sansa makes fun of him by telling him that SHE knows her better and all of a sudden he's a bumbling fool who stutters and can't find his words. And right afterwards he tells her to be prepared for absolutely everything, but her quip from seconds ago sent him into full panic mode.

And to make matters worse on his decision to stay at Winterfell, if nothing else would convince him to leave, Bran knowing about the "chaos is a ladder" thing should have told him to run away as far as he can right at that moment. Like yeah sure, it's nice that he tries to pull off retarded schemes, but when you have a dude that literally knows everything that you ever did and that can undo every lie you told and you still stay...

>>86533421
that's what he's saying. he got a good deal and took it, but joffrey fucked it up which nobody expected

>>86533392
She was perfectly willing to be his wife at first.

She only went back to fucking Jaime because Robert called her Lyanna in their wedding night.

>>86533432
>Bran knowing about the "chaos is a ladder" thing should have told him to run away as far as he can right at that moment. Like yeah sure, it's nice that he tries to pull off retarded schemes, but when you have a dude that literally knows everything that you ever did and that can undo every lie you told and you still stay...
I try to justify it as LF assuming he had a mole and wants to figure it out or something, since there's really no way he could know about all the supernatural magic stuff with Bran. But you are right.

>>86533124
>but his honour and his support for Stannis stopped him.
and honestly Stannis kinda fucked up as well for staying completely silent all through Ned's tenure as Hand.

Stannis could have sailed a large amount of his men to KL and told Ned, Renly and Robert the truth about Cersei, all before any of the bad shit went down. Renly could have proposed to execute/exile the Lannisters and have Robert marry Margery and everything would have been fine.

>>86530159
No he hasn't dumbass

>>86533449
Cersei is the true victim of the series.

>>86533449
she probably still would've fucked Jaime on the side

she was fucking him well before wedding robert

>>86533317
>But he probably should've told Cat.
There was no guarantee that she could've kept her trap shut or that she wouldn't blow his cover. By lying to her and making her think that Jon is Ned's bastard and therefore be mad at both of them over it, there was little suspicion to be had. If people would have sniffed Jon's true heritage, Robert would have had him killed on an instant and possibly tried to kill Ned as well once he realized that Lyanna only loved Rhaegar.

>>86532081
>>86531225
>>86533206
Robert would have gone total Ape shit.

If he told Robert the only way to keep Jon safe would have been to kill Robert and become King because any other party would have had Jon killed as well.

>>86530980
He didn't want the kids murdered like Rhaegar's were. He saw the Mountain's aftermath.

>>86533521
>There was no guarantee that she could've kept her trap shut or that she wouldn't blow his cover
I think after years or marriage and love he could be reasonably certain she wouldn't say shit, and it would do a lot to ease the tension with them.

>>86533518
Cersei is a whore, she would have happily traded away Jaime for the better looking Rhaegar or prime Robert.

Especially since they were a prince and king respectively.

He made the mistake of not following Littlefinger's plans. If he chose to obey Littlefinger's plan, Ned would still be alive as hand of the king to Joffrey. Cersei would be imprisoned or executed. Joffrey would be a puppet.

Not a mistake he made, but a mistake everybody else made was thinking Joffrey was going to obey Cersei's command of not executing Ned and using Ned as a bargaining tool.

>>86533599
she would've just fucked them both

>>86533556

The way things played out she would have sold Jon out in a heartbeat if it meant getting her girls back.

>>86533480
Your theory sounds plausible but it doesn't fit. He knows that Bran was North of the Wall for years, there was no way he could have had a spy network set up while on the run.

But assuming you are correct, LF is still a moron for staying. Bran having a mole close to LF means that LF's lies are still possibly exposed and since his Betrayal of Ned was the most well-known of them all, he's basically toast anyway.

>>86533601
Cersei would have still ended up telling Joffrey to fire Ned and replace him with daddy.

>>86533482
Stannis knew of Joffrey's true lineage due to Ned's research, he had no prior knowledge of that before.

My dad reminds me of Ned.

>>86533659
No he already knew, it's why he fled to Dragonstone at the start of the show. He was investigating the matter with Jon Arynn.

>>86533664
Is he dead? Are you adopted?

>>86533659
He knew all along in the books but did nothing about it until Robert and Ned were both dead.

>>86533556
He didn't told Catelyn because he wanted her to treat Jon like an outsider. Ned groomed Jon to join the night watch since he was a child.

>>86533700
I don't remember all the book details, was there a reason he kept his mouth shut when everything went down with Ned?

>>86533664
Sorry to hear your father is dead or, per the thread topic, an idiot. Or both.

>>86533556
We are talking about Cat here.
she's the single most retarded female character in the books/show

>>86530938
>literally told Cersei and Barristan to leave
>tells Ned right after
Stupid as fuck. Also Renly was going to help him become Protector of the Realm and Ned basically said he wouldn't do it in the middle of the night. Ned had his men, Renly had like 100 and Loras Tyrell was still at King's Landing too IIRC

>>86530130
His mistake was to be honorable in the midst of backstabbers. Jon made the same mistake but he has plot armor.

>>86533752
I'm pretty sure it was a combination of not thinking Robert would believe him, and thinking he was next after Jon Arynn, So he went to Dragonstone to gather his forces.

>>86533620
If she had knew the truth, she would have probably loved Jon as one of her own childs.

>>86533776
That's not Lysa

>"Oh Petyr-kun you are so cute, sure I'll tell my sister that the Lannisters killed my husband and I will not help her, my father, uncle and nephew in the war because your dick is the most important thing in the world to me"

>>86533620
How would selling Jon out get her girls back from the Lannisters? And she wouldn't have had such animosity towards him if she knew.

all of house stark acts like idiots

people idolize the starks but they are retarded, must be the tully infecting them

>>86533807
Ned also didn't want to do shit with Renly because he wasn't the rightful heir.

>>86533752
>was there a reason he kept his mouth shut when everything went down with Ned?
Autism, pretty much
He felt slighted by Robert because he chose Ned as Hand instead of himself. He clearly doesn't think much of Renly at all. I think he says somewhere in the books that he thought Robert wouldn't believe him about Joffrey's parentage if he told him, since it looks self-serving because he would be next in line. Also at this point I believe he already had Melisandre at Dragonstone, so she could have been whispering in his ear to do nothing yet.

>>86533704
>>86533752

I meant physically, sorry.
He's wise but every now and then shows some pretty dumb behavior.

>>86533403
I'm gonna get real mad when the next novels comes out (if they ever do) and lady stoneheart and the mountain have no relation with the wighs and white walkers whatsoever.

>>86533820
He should have teamed up with Ned instead of being butthurt that he didn't get chosen as hand.

>>86533807
yeah but that was on the condition that Renly be King

>>86533896
Fuck the Tullys

>>86533947
He fled immediately after Jon Arryn's suspicious death. He never really got the chance to team up with Ned. He probably would have, he seems to respect him.

>>86533601
Did Littlefinger intend for Ned to die? I wasn't clear on that.

>>86533988

He respected him but also realized what a retard he was and knew he'd need more than the Starks to oust the Lannisters.

>>86534012
Some say yes, others say no. I think he did to destabilize the kingdom and to make sure Cat was single with nothing hold her back, even emotionally (which she would have if Ned were alive and in the NW); and if that didn't work, then it also means he had Sansa isolated in KL. Plus it empowered Joffrey who would be a valuable pawn to LF.

>>86534012
I think so since it would have left Cat available.

LF wants two things, power and Cat's pussy (If unavailable then Sansa's)

>>86534012

No one did. Joffrey fucking up that badly was an awfully convenient fuck up just to keep the plot moving.

>>86534012
I think after he realized Ned couldn't be controlled / Ned wasn't going to follow LF's plan, yea, LF didn't care whether or not Ned lived or died. But originally, LF's plan was to have Ned live and act as hand with Joffrey as a puppet. Although, LF would probably have killed Ned off down the line at a more appropriate time.

Why didn't Ned legitimize Jon?

>>86530130
>my brother almost murdered baelish in a duel over petyr's boner for her and basically teabagged him in front of everyone
>also he's still got a friendzone boner for my wife
>so i can totally trust him
Dumb.

>>86534012
I don't think he intended for Ned to be killed, I think he figured Ned would have to renounce his titles and take the black. He probably didn't expect Joffrey to react quite that savagely. But I ALSO don't think Littlefinger minded that Ned was killed either as that freed up Cat.

Hell, that was probably a better outcome for LF than he originally anticipated.

>>86534104
>LF's plan was to have Ned live and act as hand with Joffrey as a puppet.
Cersei would have never allowed that. She would have told Joffrey to replace Ned with Tywin as soon as possible.

>>86534113
Jon joined the Watch, there would be zero reason to do it. He gave up his claim to any holdings or ability to carry the name so there's no reason to make him a Stark.

>>86534097
It wasn't a fuck up, it totally fit with Joff's character and his motivations, even if it were done with some encouragement from LF. In a way it also made quite a bit of sense from Joff's pov, to get rid of a traitor with that much influence, since him getting sent to the NW isn't a guarantee of keeping everything quiet.

>>86534113
He couldn't, he's not a King. He could've asked Robert, but that would've fucked over his trueborn son and doubtlessly piss off Cat.

Also, he knew Jon wasn't actually his son.

>>86534115
In fairness, most people don't hold grudges for twenty years.

>>86534113
Because it would have made Cat go crazy.

>>86534113
Ned wasn't a king, he couldn't. And it would have upset Cat a lot (since Jon would have been a threat to Robb's position), his presence was already an insult to her. Also he wanted Jon at the NW.

>>86533934
I don't think any of those three are related, or should be.
Wights seem to be somehow directly under control of the Others, I think its kind of related to "skinchanging" by the living, since the Wights appear to have the bright blue eyes like the Others themselves.

Stoneheart is the opposite, and was resurrected by the "Lord of Light" and some kind of fire magic, as was Beric. She still remains her own person in control, but lost a lot of her former self in the process, as Beric did throughout his resurrections.

The Mountain was possibly never actually dead, but might have been saved from death via some kind of Blood magic. I think it's in some way similar to how Mirri Maz dur saved Khal Drogo, but more advanced since Qyburn probably knows more than Mirri (they were both instructed by Marwin seemingly, who visited Asshai)

>>86534172
>but that would've fucked over his trueborn son
Not really, Robb is older than Jon.

>>86534151
Yeah, but why didn't he legitimize him before that? Ned kind of groomed Jon to take the black. It's kind of a shitty thing to do to your adopted son.

>>86534214
It would've fucked over Bran and Rickon, should Robb die without heirs. And it would've made the rift with Cat even greater.

>>86534113
I think he wanted the most regular life for Jon. Be a nobody so he could have a normal life.

>>86534219
>It's kind of a shitty thing to do to your adopted son.
Starks think that freezing your balls while being permavirgins in the Wall is honorabru

>>86534219
Ned was hesitant to let Jon take the black. I'm sure him and Howland Reed wanted to use Jon as a trump card in case things went to shit.

>>86534219
Ned had no power to do so. Only the standing King can legitimize someone. He may have been able to as Hand, but Jon joined up first.

>>86534240
It would have been impossible for Jon to renounce any possible claim as guardian of the north but still be considered an Stark?

>>86534173
You're right, that is fair. But still a glaring oversight. He should have at least assumed the worst like he did for everyone else.

>>86534328
No, but legitimizing bastards is tricky business. It started the Blackfyre rebellion, and there's no real point of legitimizing him just so he can renounce his claims. And again, it would've pissed off Cat.

>>86534328
Yes, The Night's Watch is a death sentence because they give up their life to take the black. Nobody had any reason to think he would get out of it by coming back from the dead, that's literally the only way other than desertion.

>>86533896
Robb Stark was the worst of them. Missed out on a 10/10 wife, got himself murdered, and massively fucked over everyone who followed him.

I couldn't even be upset about the Red Wedding, he deserved it.

>>86534279
>Jon as a trump card
Ned fully expected and wanted a long Baratheon reign, he was just naive enough to think that Viserys and Daenerys would stay in Essos for the rest of their lives despite repeatedly trying to get an army to invade with.

>>86534392
A King can relieve someone in the Night's Watch of their vows. Stannis offered Jon as much.

I really can't wait to see how Lady Stoneheart plays into the storyline. Does Beric's appearance at the Wall mean that Lay Stoneheart will travel North to fight the Night King? She's such an interesting and fascinating character and I'm glad that the show has diverged from the books so much. Brienne being nowhere near Winterfell also makes me optimistic that Stannis might not be dead in the real ASOIAF universe, let the showplebs believe what they want.

>>86534365
>no real point of legitimizing him just so he can renounce his claims
Giving him the option to live as a noble and not as a second class cintizen probably would have been enough not to push him to join the black.
> And again, it would've pissed off Cat
But Ned had no reason not to tell Cat the truth anyway,

>>86534427
he can't really have expected one of them to have magic eggs that hatched into magic flying nukes

>>86534432
That would make sense, and I believe you I just don't remember it.

>>86534446
I still can't think of a single good way for LS, Brienne and Jaime to all walk away alike from their conflict.

>>86534464
>Giving him the option to live as a noble and not as a second class cintizen probably would have been enough not to push him to join the black.
He was living as a noble. He got a nice bed, sword training, schooling, good food, etc. Jon had it far, far better than 99% of Westeros. The only issue his bastardy gave him was the shame that came with it, but legitimized bastards still hold the same shame so it wouldn't have made any difference.

>>86534476
No, but convincing the Dothraki to get some ships and do exactly what Robert predicted them to do was a very likely scenario.

>>86534496
Brienne is literally being hanged, I just don't see what Lady Stoneheart could have said that would keep her neck from breaking first of all but surviving secondly.

>>86534511
And all his siblings aside from Sansa really liked him.

>>86530130
From a book reader POV, Ned was kind of an idiot and an asshole. He had an unwarranted hatred for Lannisters that led him to be suspicious of them and to blame them for Jon Arryn's death when they had nothing to do with it. He attempted to manipulate King Robert's will to put someone he preferred on the throne because of his own sense of moral obligation. His actions more or less plunged the kingdom into total war. The appropriate thing to do would've probably been to ride to Winterfell and to get in touch with Stannis rather than trying to usurp the King with the only men in the kingdom that can be bought in the only place in the kingdom where loyal soldiers can't be used, King's Landing.

>>86534536
in his defense, if Dany didn't have dragons she probably never would've gotten ships, much less convinced the dothraki to get on them

>>86534569
>blame them for Jon Arryn's death when they had nothing to do with it
To be fair, it was easier to believe that the contents of Lysa's letter were true than it all turning out to be just her being a dick hungry slut.

>>86534569
>He attempted to manipulate King Robert's will to put someone he preferred on the throne because of his own sense of moral obligation.
What? He knew Joffrey wasn't Robert's actual heir, he just didn't have the heart to tell him it on his death bed.

There's no way Robert would want Joffrey as his heir if he knew.

>>86534589
Drogo said that he was going to get ships and take his army to Westeros before dying from the infection.

>>86534645
He didn't have the heart to be honest due to sentiment, ergo he wasn't honorable.

The entire story of A Song of Ice and Fire rides heavily on the fact that Ned is consistently a liar and is unable to make moral decisions because he's afraid he'll hurt someone's feelings.

>>86534685
oh yeah.

to be fair though that was because of robert's assassination attempt

if he never did it, drogo probably never would've upheld his end of the bargain to viserys. so ned was right

>>86534643
It really would be. Someone who was getting regular dick would be less likely to be such a huge cunt because it relieves stress.

>>86534685
That is not relevant, every Westerosi knew that the Dothraki were afraid of water and never in their history have sailed across the sea. Even without the dragons and Unsullied, what Dany did was historical in this regard.

>>86530604

Need supported Robert because his brother and father were just murdered in addition to his sister being kidnapped

Wasn't just about his sister bruv

>>86534699
>consistently a liar

he didn't tell his best friend that he was a cuck when he was dying

i don't think this makes him dishonorable

>>86534746
Honor is doing the right thing even when it hurts. Honor is not being a nice guy. Honor demanded that Eddard be honest to his friend, especially on his deathbed, even if it was hard for them both.
Stannis is honorable. Eddard is not.

>>86534768
>Stannis is honorable.
Yeah, the guy who used magic to stab his brother in the back.

>>86534768
What difference would it have made? It wouldn't just meant Robert would die in pain, both physical and mental instead of just the former.


He chose to back Stannis, even though it was the tactically unwise decision and ultimately lead to his death.

>>86534797
Renly had it coming

>>86534511
don't bastards have less rights?

>>86534744

His sister being a stupid thot got her brother and father killed.

>>86534949
He didn't have inheritance and he didn't sit at the lord's table, and people treated him with some disrespect ( though mainly this only seemed to be Cat and Sansa ) but aside from that he lived about as well as any Lord, probably better than most considering he was with the Starks.

And he definitely lived better off than any commonfolk.

>>86530385
>John Arryn died and it is initially a mystery as who killed him
Arryn was pretty old and his death was chalked up to natural causes, many people his age did in fact just die like that in Westeros.

>>86534906
That doesn't make what Stannis did honorable. It was quite the opposite in fact.

>>86530385
Wtf? Littlefinger got Lysa Arryn to kill Jon, and Joffrey tried to kill Bran. These resolutions were outright stated in the books.

>>86531225
>Blaming Jaime for killing the Mad King thus creating a lot of friction between the Lannisters and the Starks.

God I hated Ned for that. What a fucking hypocrite.

>Help lead rebellion to overthrow the mad king
>get butthurt and offended at Jaime for having the balls to kill the king himself as if that wasn't the whole point of the fucking REBELLION AGAINST THE KING
>spouting the "muh honor" and "muh kingslayer" comments years later because Jaime did what he was too much of a pussy to do himself

Fuuuuuck yoooo

>>86533880
Here-here. People in this thread call Ned retarded, but compared to Lysa he is fucking mastermind. Literally every decision she made was dumb.
>two-faced backstabbing bitch
>coward
>treat her family like shit
>worships Littlefinger's cock
She's the worst.

>>86537243
>end Targaryen reign and legitimacy by dethroning the king
>sworn bodyguard kills him before any legal process
>dishonors his position
Also, if you think it about it, there is a hint that maybe Ned would have liked to be king. The fact that he never got to consider that option by fighting the MK is what makes him an interesting character. He's not perfect and he's a human being.

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>>86530130
Not taking Renly's offer to fuck Cersei's plan up

>>86530462
It's implied that Littlefinger had a little chat with Joffrey about traitors beforehand.

>>86530130
Trusting the dude that you AND your brother had cucked, real smart

>>86533027
>unironically
Why the FUCK does 4chan keep using this word its unironically getting on my nerves

>>86530311
>only honourable man

Jaime Lannister has more honour in his big toe than this two dimensional prick

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>>86531225
>Didn't tell Robert about Lyanna being a dumb slut thus making Robert think that he missed the one true love, making him extremely depressed and hurling the realm towards utter decadence
Right in the feels

>>86530604
What are you talking about? Robert would kill Jon if he knew that Jon was half Targaryen ESPECIALLY if he was Lyannas son

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does anyone know where i can watch episode 6?

>>86539520
Google. I recommend using a porn site

>>86532558
>He gave Jaime shit for it because he was Kingsguard

This. People still do this shit in real life too, people are shunned for breaking the law to kill someone even if they're committing crimes or being outright evil.

>>86539538
thanks man!

>>86532658
Where was it said Jamie admired Ned? That's a neat detail.

>>86533501
Jon Arryn did get murdered.

>>86530130
he was naive

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Please stop posting threads about GOT when it was kino

I am having a very difficult time adjusting to this new shit-show.

>>86539448
attempted to kill a little kid, fucks his sister. =/= honour

>>86538968
Ned distinctly did not want to be king in the books. Ignoring all factors of his personality he needed to keep Jon safe.

>>86539448
Like when he stabbed his king in the back?

>>86539749
There is nothing inherently wrong with incest, but ignoring that, you could make the argument that he had to kill Bran in order to save his innocent children with Cersei, the other Lannisters, and the stability of the realm.

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>mfw Jory died
GoT was a great read, this thread is making me want to get back to it.

>>86539415
Because there is a lot of irony here reddit

>>86530130
ned left the north just to hang out with his buddy the king instead of dealing with a potential white walker invasion which he was warned about episode 1.

a man left his post. the only survivor of the attack and he even accepted his death he didnt try to talk his way out of it like "wait i need to show you guys where they were " then try to sneak off .no he accepted the judgment and got his head cut off

the entire show is about how ned failed to see the obvious. that a man moments from death has little to hide and given the circumstances no reason to lie

>>86531911
>Crows was shit
are you a retard or something?

>>86540440
Can't really blame Ned for that though. The Others hadn't been heard from for around 8,000 years. No one else in the NW, including Benjen, seemed to believe it either. The only thing maybe Ned should be blamed for was not better preparing the North/Night's Watch for Mance Rayder and his army.

>>86539629
he tells it to brienne I think or thinks about it in the riverlands

>>86539629
Book 3 or 4 or so, once Jamie has really hit rock bottom we get to know him a bit

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NEEEEDD

Anyways, he wasn't an idiot. He just didn't want a repeat of Rhaegars kids. You know that whole thing where he saw two kids and an innocent mother brutally murdered and basically forgiven by Robert?
He knew Bobby would smash Cersei and Joffreys heads in too.

>>86539777
>There is nothing inherently wrong with incest
Fucking degenerates. No wonder you support one

>>86532241
he was poisoned by lancel, the boar was a happy accident

>>86540897
>poisoned

he just gave him wine

>>86534496
>>86534555
I think LS will try to kill Jaime but Brienne will save him by killing her

>>86532970
>hung a child
what?

>>86540932
poisoned wine it's both in the show and the books

>>86532284
>I like Sanderson's writing
/tv/ is so horrible in so many ways

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>>86539783
same here
>ywn read it for the first time again

Ned was an idiot. He told Cersei his plans thinking she would just take her children and run when he was the one in her home with no troops. He had no leverage to do anything and should have listened to Littlefinger or Renly.

>>86532709
>while ignoring his duties as king and his 10/10 wife.
His duties to a whore who
>Sleeps with her brother
>Aborted his children
>Who hates him so much, when she swallowed his cum, she thinks of it as an act of killing Robert's children
>planned to murder him from the second day of their marriage

>>86533599
She has fucked every cock she saw as moderately attractive, she would've stayed the same, even if she was married to Rheagar

>>86541182
olly

>>86530938
>the small council

You mean Littlefinger, Pycelle, Varys, and Cersei (standing in for Tywin as Hand)? Yeah, that would have worked.

So when is he coming back? I've been waiting for 6 seasons now.

>>86530130
he didnt know the rules of the GAME OF THRONE

He thought a fucking letter was going to protect him from Joffrey and Cersei.

>>86544356
They bring back a bastard but not 006.

>>86530130
He was overly righteous and overly trusting. He views everything as black and white honorable and shameful. He also refused to see shit from another mans point of view. He drew his own conclusions about most people and once his mind is set he would not change easily. Hated people like Jaime purely on the fact that they broke an oath.

Honestly he's just garbo at politics and thinks he can brute force his way through every choice by doing whatever is most honorable.

He's basically like book Stannis but less about duty and more likely to do shit or let things slide if it's someone he's buddies with like Robert.

Where Stannis will chop off your fingers while also offering knighthood Ned would give a man that sends assassins after children the Iron Throne.

>>86530604
He joined the rebellion AFTER Aerys burned his father to death while his older brother strangled himself to death trying to reach a sword to save their dad.

It was Ned's older brother that started all the shit by literally riding into Kings Landing screaming about lopping off the princes head. Robert just followed suit.

>>86530130
>who'd given him every reason to trust him to that point?
U fokn wot m8?

>>86536811
I'm pretty sure they were stated in the show by Lysa right before she got dropped out the moon door

>>86537243
>You served him well...when serving was safe.

Ned, Robert and Jon Arryn raised the banners and fought the Targs even though defeat would mean the end of their houses. Jaime sat in Kings Landing the whole war, and Ned didn't know about the wildfire so he thought Jaime murdered Aerys to save his own skin.

>>86530130
>warning Cersei that he was going to tell Robert and trusting Littlefinger
Because both of those were outstandingly stupid mistakes. Cersei had the power to get rid of him, whatever the "courtesy" he was showing her. And Littlefinger was just a scheming pimp.

>>86533988
Ned sent him a letter asking him to return to KL and take his seat on the Small Council, he never responded.
Stannis didn't like Ned, he was envious of how Robert saw him as his true brother. When Robert set off to Winterfell to name Ned Hand of the King, it was the final insult to Stannis, who had been passed over for Storm's End by Renly and now as Hand by Ned.

>>86539247
Why would the madman littlefinger do this? How could this be the next step in his master plan?

>>86530604
t. person who fell asleep during the Tower of Joy dialogue

>>86530130
>What did Ned to besides his two biggest retard mistakes

>>86539031
Dying is a better fate than living in a world where Renly is king

>>86544320
He hung Olly on a washing line?

>>86542223
He didn't expect Bobby to conveniently die while hunting pigs. Especially while having Barristan protecting him.

>>86530130
He assumes that every Lannister is a dumb moron who hates him, while only Cersei is actually scheming against him. Tyrion doesn't care whatsoever, and Jaime literally explains to Ned that he avenged his family by killing Aerys, but Ned dismisses him as a cocky prick (admittedly he was on the surface).

Also, why the fuck did he trust Baelish? He clearly hated Ned for being married to Catelyn.

>>86534555
Probably something along the lines of "I can bring you Jaime Lannister"

>>86548002
>but Ned dismisses him as a cocky prick (admittedly he was on the surface).
It wasn't because he was cocky about it, it was because from his point of view it looked like Jaime decided to switch sides and stab his king in the back just because it was clear that Aerys was going to lose the war.

>>86539754
>Killing mass murderers is wrong now

>>86546976
Cat.