It's time to settle the debate once and for all. Did Alfred

yes earlier in the movie he said he has a dream where he sees dubs guy at a cafe and they don't say anything to each other

>>86342399
Certainly, then, Nolan at least nods to the possibility that we could view this ending as a fantasy of Alfred’s. And yet, other than this stylistic echo, it surely makes no narrative sense to view the ending in this way.

This is for the simple reason that the film has expended considerable effort in its last few minutes establishing that Bruce was not piloting ‘The Bat’ when it flew the nuclear bomb away from Gotham: a scene with Fox and some mechanics lets us know that, contrary to what we had assumed, the vehicle’s autopilot had been repaired; Commissioner Gordon receives information leading him to discover a newly-repaired Bat-signal; a brief exchange between the executors of Bruce’s will tells us that the necklace Selina previously stole (and Bruce subsequently recovered) is now missing from the Wayne estate’s manifest; and we see Blake following instructions that take him to the Bat Cave. All of these things strongly suggest precisely what the Florence scene apparently confirms: that Bruce survived, laid these paper trails for those close to him, and retired into anonymity with Selina.

Given this hard narrative data, the comparatively slight stylistic provisions laid by Nolan - which flirt with the Inception-like idea that the final scene is a fantasy - seem rather opportunistic. They appear simply to be a sort of tantalizing bait for a certain kind of viewer (such as Kermode, apparently) - one who will leap upon the smallest chance to ‘save’ a supposedly too-happy ending by claiming that it is potentially ironic, or ambiguous, or ‘subversive’ (a critical tendency). Whereas in Inception such a final act of potential misdirection at least makes some sense in terms of the plot that has preceded it, The Dark Knight Rises has established no such precedent: most of what follows the bomb blast creates the suggestion that Bruce has survived, and Alfred’s POV in the café seals it.

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Also why was his drink so small? Who has such a small drink?

>>86343098
hes drinking balsamic vinegar

>>86343098
He's just a really big guy.

>>86343098
british tea?

>Batman quits being Batman twice in one movie

Fucks sake these people don't get the character

It was hamfisted as fuck to have Batman carrying a bomb on his ass into the ocean. The cinematic equivalent to a lobotomy.

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>>86344090
This was Nolan Batman though. Pussy was a prime motivation for him being Batman, and he was on a quest for 3 movies to convince someone else to be Batman.
He accomplishes both by the end of the 3rd movie.
>>86344141
>not recognizing nolan's dark and gritty homage

>>86343098
its an espresso

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>>86343141
what the

>>86344289

You revved the engine a bit too hard. Nolan hasn't made a good movie since TDK and even that one gets overrated to hell and back when it all boils down a comic book version of Heat. I'll take the original, thanks.

the fuck? how hard is this to understand?

Alfred told Bruce about his yearly tradition of going to Italy on vacation, and while on this break he imagines seeing Bruce retired and living a peaceful and happy life.

Bruce remembers this and as Alfred keeps up with his tradition and goes to Italy on vacation again, Bruce shows Alfred that he is alive and ok, and is living a peaceful and happy life.

The batpod's autopilot being functional is even mentioned in case you morons are too dense to realize Bruce is still alive.

>>86343098
He says in the film that it was Fernet Branca. I hate this movie, but remember this well, because this is all the Argies drank when I visited Buenos Aires and it's a FUCKING AWFUL DRINK. Argies, what the fuck.

>>86344090
>Opens with him not being batman with bad knees
> becomes batman
> Gets back broken
> Works to become batman again, punched in the back and knee is no longer a problem
> Then decides it's time to stop being batman.

Sheesh, 3 hours to get back to where we started. Shouldn't even be called The Dark Knight Rises. Should be called The Dark Knight Flip Flops.

>>86342349
no /thread

I thought batman was in love with talia, not catwoman. Isn't this the case in the comics?

>>86344416
Batman wasn't say " no autopilot" He was actually saying "no, autopilot"

Bravo nolan

>>86344428
you dumbo, Bruce was living a miserable and lonely life before he returned as Batman. in the end he's happy and has a wife/girlfriend

>>86344469
Talia raped him in the comics

>>86344469
You can get all the pussy you want when you Batman, nigga.

>>86342349
Yes op, Alfred dreamed Bruce Wayne editing the security patch for Lucious, fixing the bat signal for Gordon, and giving the batcave to Robin.Nolan literally spoons feeds you it's not a dream

Guys guys guys
What if. Hold on. Now what if. What if BRUCE WAYNE is the mask?

>>86344569
>fixing the bat signal for Gordon
i thought the city fixed the Bat signal, in appreciation of what Batman did.

>>86344428
Here's my question, did he quit being Batman literally at the end of TDK when he sacrificed Batman's reputation for Harvey Dent and ran from the cops? (Because they can't chase Batman if he never dresses up as Batman.) Or did he continue on a while before quitting?

>>86344648
he continued on until his knees gave out

>>86344502
She raped him in the movie too

>>86344613
It's left ambiguous who fixed it. That's what Nolan does. He leaves things ambiguous.

>>86344672
Well he fell from a pretty big height at the end of TDK. Isn't it plausible that's what broke his knees?

>>86344569
Is Alfred gonna be Robin's bitch? I mean butlers are like property right, so he's gonna serve him like a proper slave right?

>>86344682
not really, isn't the bat signal reveal DURING the reveal of the Batman statue in city hall? or did Bruce manage to sculpt himself as well?

>>86344717
his knees didn't break, the joints wore out completely. that happens from extreme overuse.

>>86344648
I would figure he quit being Batman after Dent died so Dent could fully become a martyr and not distract from the plan

>>86344773
that makes no sense. that would mean he had only been Batman for about a year in total until his return in Rises.

>>86344682
It's not ambiguous, why does everyone need to be explicitly told what is going on? Why would they include that scene in the montage of Bruce leaving clues he is alive if the city fixed it? Why would Oldman act surprised and relived when he notices it's fixed? It's basic subtly, it's not even that deep

>>86344599

Ssssssssssmokin'!

>>86344416
But how the hell did Bruce time it so perfectly? What are the chances that he would be at the exact cafe Alfred was in, at the exact perfect moment, clearly not specifically waiting for him but just ordering food at the same time?

>>86344879
because he's the goddamn Batman

obviously Alfred goes at the same time every year.

>>86344879
Well, he IS Batman.

>>86344814
I think it was 4 years and regardless why would Bruce keep being Batman when he went out of his way to protect Dent? His death was the catalyst to finally get rid of all the corruption in the police department, why would Batman still fight cry when the cops want to arrest and kill him and their is no major crime until Bane comes?

>>86344977
I find it kind of absurd that the Joker didn't escape from jail at all in those 4 years. He sure is weak in the TDK universe.

>>86345002
you know Heath died, right? they didn't bring Joker into it out of respect for Ledger
>>86344977
how do you think it was four when it's obvious Dark Knight is 1 year from Begins

>>86345002
Ledger's dead, you want Jared Leto's Joker in Nolan's universe?

>>86344425
this

fernet takes like jaeger if jaeger was 300% mintier

>>86345055
Because I recall reading about it somewhere something like that was stated in some media tie-in media

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Nolan went out of his way to tell the audience, who he must assume are idiots, that Bruce is alive.

He could have ended the scene on Alfred's reaction but he didn't because he didn't want people to misinterpret the scene, and people still did.

There's scenes all over the movie that attempt to feed audience like idiots.

Did you forget what Bruce was referring to when he last spoke to Gordon? Well here's a flashback, you morons.

Did you not get the reference that Blake is Robin? No, his actual birth name is REALLY ROBIN, you fucking idiots.

Sincerely, Nolan.

>>86345386
speaking of Nolan, did the British survive WW2? Dunkirk explained nothing.

>>86344756

Reminds me of a Youtuber who went through everything you would have to do to actually become Bat-man (spoiler alert: it's fucking impossible no matter how much money you have).

So it's kinda funny Nolan took real-life logic and applied it to Bruce Wayne's knees. I'm not saying it's not believable. In fact, it's entirely believable. It's just odd he applied it to his knees.

It's like if in the Flash TV or new movie, there's a plot point that he has to stop being the Flash because all that high speed running has completely destroyed his arch support causing severe foot pain. Is it believable? Entirely, but it would be so odd...

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Uh... Nolan?

>>86344756
If he had zero cartilage left he'd be unable to walk and would need surgery and months of PT, not a magic knee brace

>>86345386
>He could have ended the scene on Alfred's reaction but he didn't because he didn't want people to misinterpret the scene, and people still did.


>who's he toasting to?

>is it God?

B R A V O N O L A N

>>86345476
Yes, the greatest British war film is about the British Army struggling to run away from a superior enemy

>>86346167
Batman has killed people in every Nolan movie. He killed Ras in BB, Dent in TDK,and he killed Talia in TDKR

>>86342850
Nice.

>>86346167
>No, Harvey. I'll let you shoot this innocent child so to teach you a lesson on how every life is sacred even yours and if I kill you I'll be just as bad as the Joker. If not worse. So please go on. Blow his brains out. I'll wait.

Batfags have such ocd about the no kill rule. Maybe Nolan should never have put Batman in this situation, but then the whole no kill rule is meaningless since Batman has his own angels in the outfield that will never put him in a situation where it matters. It's just an empty platitude he whips out to look superior to others.

>>86348120
Kermode seriously does suck.

>>86348233
Well Bravo Nolan showed the coin landed on the no kill side after Batman murdered Dent

>>86344416
how could he afford travelling to europe when he was a BROKE ASS WHITE TRASH

>>86347951
Ras is immortal you fucking nugget

>>86344721
>batcave below an orphanage
what could POSSIBLY go wrong

>>86348716
He dressed up as an immigrant and got in for free without being checked.

>>86342349
It's deliberately open to interpretation. The spectator can choose which it is.

>>86345062
I think we all know who should have replaced Ledger.

>>86342349
Who cares? Regardless, it's a shit ending to what could have been a good concise trilogy. TDKR was a bloated mess full of expositional dialogue trying to wrap up a story with very little to do with previous installments.

>>86344090
>Batman quits being Batman after 6 months of Batmanning, leaving the city to rot for a few years while the Harvey Dent Act is pushed through

>>86343098
He's in Florence and that's a (somewhat) popular bitter in Italy.
t. Italianon

>>86349274
Realistically there is no way he could have kept up that life style for more than six months.

>>86344425
why would he drink Fernet Branca instead of italian Grappa?

If you couldnt immediately tell this would happen when they first mentioned the auto pilot, you are a brainlet. Shitty writing.

>>86345386
It's as bad as the ending of TDK where Gordon has to explain to his son why Batman is running away

>>86349274
>Batman has to beat every single pickpocket in Gotham into submission and partial paralysis, literally ending crime, not just turn the tide and inspire people to stand up to corruption and make the city on a literal shithole

Go back to bed, Alex Ross. Don't you have photos of your fat friends to trace?

>>86342349
Does anyone have the CIA edit?

>>86349343
Realistically, there's a lot wrong with the Dark Knight universe, but Batman being unable to Batman is the least of it's worries.

>>86349574
>He gives up on his parents dream, basically Batman's entire reason for doing what he does, when he takes a little bump on the knee
Stop being an apologist.

>>86348741
Not in the Nolan universe you comic spaz

>>86350186
How do you know? We never saw his corpse in Batman Begins.

>>86349226
It wasn't that bad, it concluded the story that Bruce couldn't let Batman go out of his life that is stated in TDKR by Rachel. In TDKR he fakes he kills Batman and fakes his death, starts a new life with Selina which signifies Bruce moved on from Batman and Rachel

>>86350275
We see his ghost in TDKR, that is the closest you will get to immortality in Nolan's interpretation

>>86350376
>ghost
It was obviously just Bruce's imagination.

>>86344320
shit's really good for you senpai

>>86349226
>BB: Bruce comes back, becomes a vigilante to fight corruption in Gotham
>TDK: Bruce wants a Gotham that no longer needs Batman but Bruce may always need to be Batman, his only real motivation to stop being Batman is so he can be with Rachel but she ends up dying, taking the only thing in his life that wasn't Batman
>TDKR: Bruce has been mourning Rachel for like 7 years, is no longer Batman and is absolutely miserable. He finally comes out of retirement and finds purpose again, but being Batman isn't a good thing because he has a deathwish. The theme of the movie is about the consequences of deception, even if the motivation is that of good. Alfred reveals Rachel was never going to be with him, Bane reveals Dent went on a murder rampage. Bruce realizes in the cave he has no fear of death because the only thing he was living for was being Batman. He finally moves on from Rachel and Batman, and Gotham is able to handle the truth of Harvey Dent. Bruce and Gotham no longer need Batman

>>86343098
It's his salad dressing but because he's a dumb American he drinks it instead of putting it on his salad

>>86350854
He's British though. I can't tell if you know that but regardless this is a real shitty troll attempt

>>86349173
Ott A. Kounth?

>>86345002
>He sure is weak in the TDK universe.

Or the actually have locks on the doors, unlike in comicbooks.

>>86342349
In the original script it was CIA instead of Bruce.

>>86351594
No it wasn't. Agent Wilson reappears later under the mantle of "Deathstroke." Seriously, look it up. Tell me what Deathstroke's name is.

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>>86349592

>>86352505
Your feel when you realize Nolan left both CIA's and Bane's deaths vague so as to respect the tradition of comic books where characters do not necessarily die permanently and could potentially still be out there. Probably also why Talia just looked like she fell asleep.

>>86352805
>Your feel when you realize Nolan left both CIA's and Bane's deaths vague
Being this level of retarded

Go make a snyder thread, idiot.

>>86352880
Just gonna create a thread with that as the OP post. Later though, so I don't have to interrupt it with sleep.

>Bruce gives the entire batcave to some rookie hothead cop with zero martial training
What was he thinking?

>>86352912
He didn't care. He wanted to give up the Batman life so he gave it to the only person who had any interest in it.

I thought it was stupid how Bane said he more or less grew up in hell. Then when Bruce is sent there, you see that it's not that bad. He basically had TV, he was being nursed back to health and he had a crowd cheering him on as he tried to escape. A regular American prison would have been a worse punishment than that mediocre place.

Also in the Dark Knight, it's established that the people of Gotham are good when both the civilians and prisoners don't blow each other up. Yet when Bane comes in, everyone starts looting and being assholes.

>>86342349
why would Alfred dream he was with Selena? When he left the story Bruce was romancing Miranda Tate.

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>>86352805

>>86344425
Say this aloud and try to bang ONE argie chick, go ahead I double dare you

This scene would have been so much better if they didn't actually show Bruce. Just show something catching Alfred's eye and have him smile.

>>86353812
Nolan knows the audience is stupid, people are actually debating if it was a dream only because Nolan made Inception

>>86343098
A drink the size of a tangerine
tangerine

Yes, it was a nod to Ivan's Childhood by Tchaikovsky. Ivan dies but the movie ends in a dream where he happily plays with apples on the beach. In the movie Bruce is dead but there is a dream where he is happy once again.

>>86344090
Unironically this. Bruce can never reach. point where he doesn't do what he does. Nothing short of death or aging would stop him. Bruce is a madman. Dude needs his fix. An ugly love interest that gets blown up and a bad knee that's repaired in all of forty seconds aren't good reasons for Batman to stop.

>>86346167
There's a difference between killing one person to save someone else's life and just murdering thousands of people because it looks kewl. Superman didn't only kill Zod, he murderized Smallville and most of Metropolis in his rampage.
Shit, if he was just going to snap his neck, why did he have to go through so many buildings to do so? Because this is Roland Emmerich levels of schlock made to entertain mouthbreathers.

>>86357150
There was another movie like this, some sci-fi movie where he won and saved the day but in the end it's revealed he was put into a coma partway through the movie and the rest of it was a dream.

>>86343098
It's ferent. You drink it in small doses

>>86357417
>because it looks cool
No, because it was a fight between two incredibly powerful superhumans, there were obviously going to be casualties. But for the purpose of narrative, I'm like 99% only like a couple people if any died in smallville, and they were Zod's and his cronies' fault.

>>86342850
Kino post

>>86344425
Fernet is great you fucking pleb

>>86357821
No, Snyder very clearly just wanted to show building after building going down because he has no concept of scale or subtlety. It's the Michael Bay school of filmmaking, except even Michael Bay's movies have some manner of emotional core to them, as stupid as they are.

>>86357824
>great, well thought out post gets two replies
>the post about Alfred's tiny drink gets a million of them

>>86344425
argies have mate though which is great

>>86358098
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKQKGoJjghc

Here's all you need to know about (squeaky voice) Zack Snyder!

>>86353582
>>86352505
genius

>>86349173
drew russel?

>>86359306
Kurt Russell.

>>86343098
during the commentary nolan reveals that alfred was actually a vampire the whole time and he was drinking blood

>>86345386
love nolan but agree. i wish it wasnt so deliberate. probably a reaction to people getting pissy about inception's ending

>>86346167
>b...but Marvel
>b...but Nolan

Who's next, Burton?

>>86347951

He didn't outright "kill" them, he just left them to die without interfering. It's a Batman thing, you wouldn't understand

>>86361718
Jubilee is a vampire, so it makes sense.

>>86362315
Burton has always been shit on.
>muh creepy stuff
Boring shit.

>>86362382
Oh yes, tackling Harvey off a building was such non-interference. Batman is such an innocent fellow.

>>86352505
Well technically Bane didn't throw CIA out of the plane. He threw the plane out of the skies

>>86344090
i hate this fucking trope

>>86342349
It's a reference to how American Psycho was all a dream and that Patrick Bateman didn't actually kill anyone.

>>86342399
Speaking of dubs!

Nice!

>>86358376
cash me outside howbow dah

>>86364749
It only works for characters like Spider-Man, where his literal character development is "with great power comes great responsibility". Batman exists only to remove crime, have plot armor and to feel sorry for him.

>>86342349
TDKR is nearly complete shit. My opinion of people drops by 30% when I find out they like this turd.

2/10

>>86362382
Batman literally lit up the truck Tala was driving with bullets, he left them to die without interfering after shooting her

>>86342349

Nope. People often cite the unbelievability of Bruce Wayne finding some obscure cafe, but really all he really had to do follow a distraught British man.

>>86353758
>Banging SA scum
Man, argie girls great asses and huge noses. They're white, but of the german jewish variety.