>Movie takes its characters seriously How is that a bad thing

Spider-Man 2 was well written and directed though.

>>85490643
Because it's a bunch of men running around in tights.

It's a masterpiece. I fucking adore this movie.

Where has suppermans pointy finger gone, why is it cut in half, bad hotoshop or the CGI morphed over it?

>>85490643
Because Spiderman 2 did an infinitely better job of it.

>>85490801
kek

>>85490643
As so many discussions related to capeshit are, it isn't a true/false, yes/no, black white question. There is such a thing as a movie not taking itself seriously at all, slightly, taking itself seriously, or doing so entirely too much, as well as numerous other levels between those I listed. It is possibly for one movie to do something appropriately, while another does the same thing entirely too excess.

>>85490643
It's fine, but if you want to be entertaining on a serious level you need to actually do a good job, meanwhile an adventurous quipfest can be entertaining on a different level and doesn't have to rely on it's story/philosophy/characters

SvB was trash, just get over it and enjoy it if you like it anyway

>>85492214
It's in shadow you doofus

>Movie takes its characters seriously
>How is that a bad thing again?

It isn't. It does become a major problem when the characters take themselves way too seriously while the movie is retarded as shit patrician DChad

>>85490643
Why is superman missing a finger in this picture?

>Lex "The Joker" Luthor
>serious

>>85490643
The problem isn't that it takes its characters seriously. It takes them TOO seriously.

>>85492214
>>85492432
are you fucking retarded?

Enough of this shit

BvS is bad because it has a terrible plot, shoves major DC players into one film, does multiple comic stories in one film, has awful casting choices, and bad pacing.

There is nothing bad about any film that takes itself seriously, stop drfending this shitty movie, and stop false flagging anyone who shits on it a marvel shill because their movies are just as bad.

>>85492554

Don't let it trigger you f@m.

It's just the usual "BvS was a good movie meme" thread.

>>85492263
how

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>>85490643
These movies didn't push the leftist agenda enough, if at all. Wonder Woman was a good first step. Fuck that Zack Snyder nazi motherfucker.

>>85493836
>likable characters
>characters have legitimate motivation for their actions and not just "because we need to move the plot along"
>villain is simultaneously sympathetic and threatening without being cringey or acting like an autist

Real simple shit. BvS "taking its characters too serously" is a legitimate criticism because the characters aren't fleshed out enough to deserve that treatment. They deserve the same flippancy and ignorance the creators put into making them feel like real people.

>>85493836
Better acting and music, especially acting. Rosemary Harris is an infinitely better actress than Diane Lane and every scene she's in with Tobey is heartfelt and emotional. Doc Ock also has some touching scenes.

>>85493836
Raimi is an actual director

>>85490801
t. Patrician

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>>85494018
>you will never have a son who will dress up as Harley Quinn
>tfw

>>85494018
Wtf he's not even old enough to be a trap

Spiderman 2 is way more sincere, personal, funny and therefore more believable and easy to identify with than the embarassing grimderp posturing in BvS.

>>85492554
t. Marlel shill

>>85490643
>You have to save martha...
>MARTHA! WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME!
>Mmmmm boys...
>THAT'S HIS MOMMY'S NAME! DON'T HURT HIM!
Wait... Was I supposed to be taking this schlock seriously? Am I being taken on a grand ruse cruise without my consent?

>>85490678
fpbp

>>85492416
thanks.

>>85492454
>Lex "The Joker" Luthor
He was more like Riddler.

>>85490643
Its too serious.
The characters are all unlikable sloths.

>>85490728
>Being this retarded.

>>85490643
If you ain't quip, you ain't hip.

>>85490643
It's code for too masculine or not feminist enough

>>85490678
Is there a director better able to distill the pure essence of fun into a film than Raimi.

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>>85490643
>Serious capeshit for serious adults like myself

>>85492532
>TOO seriously.
no such thing.

>>85490801
Lmao

spiderman 2 also was filled with cornball fun

Even logan knew how to balance it
granted it has the advantage of pretending its not about men in tights punching eachother because of the mutant angle.

Bats and Superman is inherently very silly. You can make batman a bit darker because thats his aesthetic. even old timey could play the noir detective angle. same cant be applied to superman, Miller did it right yet they were too busy copying cover art instead of actually paying attention to the comic

>>85494546
You are 1000% retarded senpai.
It's not about the name you mong, it's about the fact that Sups care about another human, tries to protect him even while facing deadly threat. Guy is about to get stabbed with magical spear and he asks his potential killer to save someone else, someone who he fears for more then for his own goddamn life.
Bruce's most significant claim against Clark was that he is alien, he doesn't understand humanity and holds himself above everyone else. During this scene Bruce sees that Superman is just like him - a man trying to protect people he holds dear.
So fucking tired of your retarded "ooh their mommies share the name so they are friends now". This episode is NOT about the name, it's about caring and protecting. But you autists cannot fucking understand what it means anyway.

>>85495296
>spiderman 2 also was filled with cornball fun
>dat rami shakey cam and snap zooms when doc ock's arms come to life
I fucking love it.

wtf where's superman finger

>>85494018
>These movies didn't push the leftist agenda enough, if at all.
Superman is literally an immigrant

>>85495587
>Bruce's most significant claim against Clark was that he is alien
except it wasn't, his claim against him was that he has too much individual power and no checks, that would still apply if he was human

>>85495743
Bruce was scared of Sups cause he cannot understand the motivation of the latter, so he tried to control him. It's not about being incredibly powerful, it's about applying that power for some cause. When Bats saw that Superman's causes are same as his own he understood that Superman is not an enemy.
Unfortunately, the movie didn't spell it out loud for you so you couldn't get it. Nothing to worry about, we still love you despite the fact that you are slightly retarded, anon.

>>85490728
So is Shakespeare, faggot.

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>>85490801
Me too.

>>85495587
No. Its about the fact that a director told them to act that way, said cut, and patted himself on the back for catching that magic.
The performance is HILARIOUSLY BAD, I literally laughed out loud. I could give a fuck if anything about that scene did or did not make sense with or without context. It doesn't matter because the dramatic turn of your movie is fucking clown shoes.
Holy shit I love the snyder meme defense force (aka: (you), you salty fucking poointheloo with actual autism), the way you bend over backwards to defend this thunder-turd of a movie and just ignore the fact that its a fucking ugly movie with the symbolic depth of a college deathmetal almbum cover, packed to the brim with some of the worst performances by otherwise decent actors that I've ever seen.
>b-but the story is really complex and mature
Maybe, but who fucking cares when the movie is otherwise totally dreadful. I'm not going to see a middleschool production of waiting for gadot for the same fucking reason.

>>85490801
I didn't watch before the ultimate cut released on blu-ray because of all the shitty reviews.
Imagine my surprise when it was really fucking good, it blew my mind that people hated it.

>>85494134
still not over this scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo1-Gk1uWA4

>>85494546
>schlock

Fuck off back to Re.ddit letter Media senpai

>>85490643

The movie takes its characters too seriously.

The average joe isn't going to wax philosophic about the morality and motivations of Superman, a person who can literally hear him talking shit from thousands of miles away and will immediately come to his house to kick his ass. They will stay the fuck out of his way and take him at his word until he betrays the people's trust. Trying to initiate a war on Supes is the dumbest shit that modern Superman stories try to do because it turns everyone on the planet into a self-serving asshole who quite simply don't believe a dude that has been nothing but a help to them since the day he came to earth would ever be a genuinely good person.

Man of Steel even makes Pa Kent an asshole who treats his son like a WMD instead of a person.

>>85495743
>Edgelord Batman that brands criminals
>Has a big problem with unilateral vigilantism without public oversight
That dog just don't hunt.

>>85495887
>he had the power to wipe out the entire human race, if there is even a 1% chance he is our enemy we have to take that as an absolute certainty
that's Batman's exact words on the matter, how does him caring about others contradict that at all?

>>85490643
If only the characters in BvS had any sort of logical motivation.

Why is James Healey such a tasteless pleb?

>>85490643
taking the characters seriously wasn't the problem. Miscasts and bad plot is what made BvS bad.

>>85490643
If you think that you need to make Superman a mopey guy who's reluctant to use his powers to help mankind in order to make him relatable, it's because you are unable to take him seriously, unless you change the essence of his character.

>>85496159
There's a 1% chance batman could wipe out the human race.

>>85496092
This one hits so much harder imho.

https://youtu.be/OjokjB5VGjg?t=2m22s

And people have the nerve to say this movie is shit.

>>85496305
how? I mean if you're talking about Batgod then sure, but BvS Batman, even if he decided to take over the world he wouldn't get very far

>>85490643
>it's considered the best superhero movie of all time.

By what kind of pleb?

>>85496255
The cast was fine. They've all done some fine movies. But they had applesauce farts and fuckall to work with in this movie. The script is a mess of four different movies that all could have worked out well enough if there was any kind of focus. There are things I liked about the movie, It's just that those moments are few and far between and almost all in the first half.

>>85495896
Shakespeare is well written

>>85490643
>he thinks the only problem with BvS is that it took the character too seriously
you're a lost cause

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>picture books are serious business

>>85494451
you didn't say anything in your entire post.

>>85496358
He almost killed the only guy who could beat up lex's pet lord of the rings troll. The one that was capable of killing superman? The one that they had no plan or method of stopping (because if they did, why not just use that on the weaker superman)?
BvS batman is the one I'd put money on to fuck up and kill everyone.

>>85494797
>Its too serious.
again no such thing

>>85496119
>The movie takes its characters too seriously.
You can't take your characters too seriously.

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>>85496775
They are for videogame players that don't know a thing about cinema beyond picture related

remember these humanoid children have never seen something as entry level as french new wave

>>85490643

Man of Steel and Batman v Superman are too good for the fanboys. Zack Snyder's movies are too intelligent for them. Synder has elevated the superhero genre and yet all he gets is criticism. Instead of more video gamey, comic-con trash that Marvel regularly serves them up, Snyder is more interesting in making art that actually means something

>>85496953
>alien baby falling from the sky
>normal by the book legal immigration

>>85496873
So /tv/ in general?

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>>85496953
>women and children

>>85496663
>The cast was fine
jesse was not a good lex, so no, the cast was not fine. Whether it was his idea or snyders, he was one of if not the most horrible thing about the movie.

>>85497227
>muslims invading in the name jihad or mexicans invading in the name of welfare checks
But a leftist agenda would portray immigration in a positive light

>>85497227
Superman's backstory is based on a Jewish fairy tale about smuggling a kid from an alien culture into the royal family of the native culture.

>>85492554
>drfending
Opinion immediately discarded

>>85490643
>taking character seriously
>having them behave like no sane human being would

>>85490678
/thread

>>85492454
>>85494735
You do realize that Kevin Spacey was basically a more older and bald version of Jesse Eisenberg, right?

>>85498140
what the fuck does that have to do with anything

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>>85490643
>implying it wasn't 10/10 comedy

I'm glad people are getting sick of this "bvs is good" meme, worst thing since defending the star wars prequels

>>85496092
>>85496353


FUCK!!!
I BELIEVE THERE'S A HERO IN ALL OF US
I LOVE YOU AUNT MAY!!!!

>>85496295
>If you think that you need to make Superman a mopey guy who's reluctant to use his powers to help mankind in order to make him relatable, it's because you are unable to take him seriously, unless you change the essence of his character.

Damn. Can you elaborate?

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>>85490801
you have to back, juan

>>85496133
I guess it's a good thing that that isn't his motivation then, neither his real one nor the one he uses to justify his vendetta.

>>85495680
>hes always been

>>85492454
I can guarantee that he will be recast, the same with Leto. They made a huge mistake with that casting and Geoff Johns will fix it.

>>85494018
It has a major plotthread about an evil capitalist creating an uncontrollable monster to kill an immigrant.

>>85495936
>>85496023
>>85490801
>it blew my mind that people hated it.


same here, the film community should be ashamed for the baseless narrative they've spun around the movie.

>>85494128
well first off you dont NEED likable characters for a movie to be good and Supermanm, Perry, WW, Lois, Alfred and Batman (in the last 20 minutes) were all likable to me.
>characters have legitimate motivation for their actions and not just "because we need to move the plot along"
but everyone had a legitimate motivation in BvS, and really Spider-Man 2's biggest flaw is giving Dock Ock the generic HURR DURR HE IS CUH-RAZY! motivation. I mean Parker is pretty fucking stupid in Spider-Man 2 for just assuming that the only way to have a normal life is to not be Spider-Man. I love the movie, I do, but there are some really shitty parts of it.
And Lex wasnt cringy my dude, sorry you get so triggered over seeing a bottle of peach tea or a jolly rancher in a movie.

>>85506175
>>85492454
>>85494735
how was he in anyway like The Riddler or Joker? Because he made some sounds you thought were funny?

>>85492554
how was the plot terrible, what is wrong with having three DC characters in one movie, how does it do multiple comic stories in one? It doesnt do any one full comic story at all. Are you really going to complain that it took bits and pieces from different comic stories? How was the pacing bad?

Supes can fly around the world and rewind time. He can be anywhere in a fraction of a second. The mere concept of a Superman vs. anyone without superpowers movie is ridiculous. He's too powerful. He's literally like a god.

>>85496818
Lex had more kryptonite should Doomsday have gotten out of control. That was the whole point of the making kryptonite weapons for the government thing.

>>85495296
You dont read enough Superman my dude. Superman started as a serious character, beating up criminals and politicians and throwing dudes off roofs. He was a hero for the downtrodden during the depression.


Even sillier, Silver Age Superman was fucking nuts and played elaborate pranks on his friends and went to extreme lengths to keep secrets.
Post-Crisis Superman is more or less the exact same tone as MoS and BvS Superman.


And both of the movies had light hearted moments, sorry you cant remember any of them due to your overwhelming bias.

>>85496119
>Man of Steel even makes Pa Kent an asshole who treats his son like a WMD instead of a person.


How? If anything its the exact opposite of that because he wants to protect him from the world at all costs. You ever read Secret Identity, where the government is constantly after Superman? Yeah, thats basically what Pa Kent was imagining. Most interpetations have him treat Superman like an invincible weapon and NOT like an actual son he wants to protect.


You're crazy.

>>85509105
>Supes can fly around the world and rewind time.
That was Reeves Superman.

BvS makes their conflict more about their ideals and characters than raw physical strength. Hence the v instead of vs in the title.

>>85496873
>>85496775
ive watched plenty of "real" movies. the OG french Beauty & The Beast, The Dreamers, M, 8 1/2, Ran, Once Upon a Time in the West, 12 Angry Men, My Dinner With Andre-- I could just keep listening them if I wanted, and I think BvS is a great film.
Why you gotta be such a silly elitest?

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>>85509363
It is a misguided push to store every superhero into a neat little folder called "Marvel". BvS becomes reduced to shit and its creative strengths are instead turned around against it for failing to be a cynical pleb pleaser as Marvels are.

I can definitely promise you the ones whining about "real cinema" aren't the ones in Bergman/Kubrick/Scorsese threads.

>>85495936
Saving this image for future kinoposting

>>85490801
Me too.

How about this: A movie should only take itself as serious as much as it deserves to be taken seriously. Does that work?

Not only is BvS a great and hugely underrated film, but it's one of the few times that it ever truly made me feel that Superman was an inspiring hero.

>>85495936
Plato is a mysticist and should not be associated with this movie desu

>>85490801
Then why didn't it get any awards?
Or get rated positively by critics?

>>85510327
>movie gets panned by the very same media elite that it itself is criticizing
really makes you think.

Also, cutting 30 minutes ruining scene flow, muddying character motivations and omitting important story beats didn't help.

Extended Cut was incrediblr. But even the theatrical cut was evident to be patrician tier to anyone with a clue.

>>85495999

This.

You can make all the arguments about how it's not because of the name or some shit but that scene felt forced , awkward and anticlimactic because the only interesting thing in that movie was Batmans motivation which was resolved with a PTSD trigger that lasted 2 minutes after which Batman threw away all his convictions towards superman and became his ally to save his mommy.

And you people unironically defend this garbage.

>>85490643
It's hard to take Superman seriously in anything.
>oh wow im invincible
>and i have super strength
>and i can shoot lasers
>and i can fly

>>85509169
Batman stole the largest supply of it, though, the shipment coming off of the portuguese

>>85510327
I would love to know aswell. This film more than makes itself worthy of industry-wide recognition. It advances the genre in numerous key areas while also rightfully putting visual storytelling on the piedestal it belongs. In a genre so visually oriented, only Snyder seems to comprehend the power and importance of photography.

>>85501589
Well, a bit too late but it's pretty straight forward. Just watch any interview with Snyder talking about his superhero films. He can't accept superheroes as they are, he can't take them seriously, so he has to destroy their character in order to make them more relatable to him because he somehow thinks taking them seriously meanst making them "realistic".
This is a guy who said his way to take Batman seriously was if he got raped in prison.

>>85494018
It's about how an immigrant is wrongly accused because of what other people with his same origin did. It also shows how wrong a reactionary person like Bruce Wayne in BvS was.

>>85510660
t. Zack Snyder

>>85510839
You are misquoting and deliberately painting him in a misleading light.

Snyder said he wanted Batman in a universe dark enough that you could believe anything could happen to Bruce, including rape. Meaning that he wants the audience to feel the character is in geniune danger to create thrilling films.

>>85510839
Thank you, that helps a bit. I started this thread because I have a film notebook where I write down rules/suggestions for writing and filmmaking. After rewatching Spider-Man 2 I came to the conclusion that audiences will take your characters seriously if you take them and their problems seriously, but I failed to extend on that idea. "Take your characters seriously" is too vague IMO and can easily be misinterpreted.

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>>85510839
Snyder has more love and understanding for superheroes than any other director working in the field today.

The Terraforming scene alone shows how well Snyder is aware of the symbolic importance of Superman and how it ties into the hope and struggles of man. And he delivers without Superman needing to express a single word. The visual language says it all, as any competent film based on a visually-oriented medium is.

>>85510979
that is the ideal interpretation of the random gibbering of zack snyder.

he's completely failed to make anything even close to it.

>>85510979
>Everyone says that about "Batman Begins." "Batman's dark." I'm like, "Okay, no, Batman's cool." He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn't, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that's how that would go.

The real quote only makes him sound like an even bigger edgy tryhard.

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>>85511098
>That could happen in my movie.
Emphasis on the word could. Batman is in constant danger all the time. Why shouldn't audiences actually believe he is in danger? Snyder does right to blend the power fantasy of Batman with the actual risks and consequences it COULD result in.

>>85490801
T. pleb

>>85511052
>The visual language says it all
How
What does it say

>>85511084
Watchmen
300
Man of Steel
Batman v Superman
He's made it four times over. Even Sucker Punch flirts with the themes of escapism against the cold harsh conditions of reality. It's an ever present theme in his films. Superman proves himself in our world, not in an imaginary world where everyone treats a potential demigod as a friendly neighbourhood Kryptonian. This is why I find his Superman more meaningful than other film interpretations. Superman triumphs in our world.

>>85511183
Do you think it's mere chance it cuts to White and his colleagues in rubbles? Look how Superman is about to get crushed until Perry extends the helping hand to the trapped woman. And then back to Superman, gaining renewed power ascending upwards to his figurative birth.

>>85490643
It misinterprets what the characters stand for on a base level. This by itself isn't bad, but they're replaced by tonedeaf shit that only a mouth breather like Zack Snyder would think is cool. And what Zack Snyder thinks is cool isn't heroic, it's just violent. Spider-Man 2 is better because it understands what Spider-Man is on a fundamental level and the film just falls into place from there.

>>85511261
>buzzword criticism with no substance
Pay enough attention to "criticism" of Zack's movies and you'll marvel at just how lacking in substance 99% of it is

>>85511052
>"I kinda came to the conclusion also that they couldn't really talk in their suits, um, with any credibility..."

>"... more than 4 or 5 lines and you start to notice, like wait, these are two guys ... one guys dressed up like a bat and the other has a big red 'S' on his chest, and they're being super serious about how mad they are at each other..."

Sure he does, buddy. Sure he does.

>>85511261
Your posts say nothing. If you want a proper reply, make an actual argument past buzzwords.

>>85511149
>Oh yeah, you thought Nolan's movies were dark, well, you know nothing! In my movie Batman could get raped!

You can't defend this childish bullshit with a serious face.

>>85490678
BvS was well directed.
You could argue about well written but the direction was good

>>85511333
I just did and you just ignored it. Batman existing would definitely place him at great risk, which Snyder feels is arrogant to ignore.

The power fantasy against our reality.

>>85511353
This.

This cult of hating BvS like it's the worst thing known to mankind has made me see the true lenses of this website desu. I've been browsing 4chan for 8 years and you really shouldn't take more than half of the things here seriously. I mean for real, disrespecting Snyder's daughter over a movie? What a fucking culture "nerd culture" is.

>>85511416
nerd culture is cancer

not a surprise its what Marvel shit caters to

>>85511353
No, it wasn't. The performances were mostly bad, even from capable actors. Scenes failed to get the message through the general audience. Pace was all over the place, with the knightmare scene completely fucking up the narrative flow of the movie as the most glaring example. Character arcs and motivations are terribly handled. The reason why everybody thinks they became friends because their moms have the same name is because that's pretty much what the movie tells you. After that scene, they got right into being buddies fighting Doomsday and quipping even though Batman was fucking trying to murder him just a few minutes ago.
All this without mentioning the forced references to religious art that come out as horribly forced and stilted.

>>85511485
>All this without mentioning the forced references to religious art
It makes perfect sense though. The perception in men creating new myths and Gods using the images of these superheroes.

Stop type out buzzwords and criticism when you understand so little of anything.

>>85511375
But none of Snyder's movies are closer to our reality than superhero films like Marvel's. They're just cartoonishly grim, as if they were made by a 15 year old and that quote shows it.
He's literally trying to one-up Nolan in supposed "darkness" by implying that his Batman could get raped.

>>85511485
>The performances were mostly bad
>directing

>The reason why everybody thinks they became friends because their moms have the same name is because that's pretty much what the movie tells you
no, that's because they're people used to marvel like movies who handhold you and explain everything while adding quips every other sentence
>Pace was all over the place
that was fixed in the UC

>>85511416
What you see on /tv/ is just a small part of a hate campaign that encompasses numerous social media sites including 4chan, Reddit, Twitter and so on.

Lurk these threads long enough and you'll notice it's the same 3-4 shitposters in every thread reading points of a script.

>>85511530
>It makes perfect sense though.
I'm talking about how they were shot and introduced into the movie. They're not organic to it at all, the movie stops dead every time Snyder needs his characters to pose like some painting he googled once.

>>85511541
So which film captures an alien coming to Earth best, Snyder with Superman or Marvel with Thor? How did the world react to Asgardians being real again? Did they even react?

>>85511594
And you are wrong. It is through the lens of his perceivers we see Superman.

>>85511259
Could've at least linked the scene. You don't think you're reaching a bit? Or that it wasn't executed that well?

>>85511571
>that was fixed in the UC
No, it wasn't.

>The performances were mostly bad
>directing
Yes, a director directs actors as well. Why do you think some actors can give good performances in one movie, and shit performances in another? You obviously have no fucking clue how movies are made, and what a director does.
Just watch at the performance of Gadot in BvS and in WW (and the overall character work) to see what a decent director does with actors.
It's not by chance that Jenkins directed Theron in an award winning performance. It's obviously one of her strengths.

>>85511626
You can look it up on Youtube. It cuts perfectly between man and Superman.

>>85511541
BvS was pretty good at showing the world how they treat both the Superman and the Batman.

>>85511625
Again, you're talking to me as if I don't understand what are those scenes supposed to mean, and I completely do. It's not like they have any subtelty about them, and that's exactly the problem. Every few minutes, we're completely taken out of the rhythm and flow of the movie to see characters pose like some religious painting. That's just sophomore filmmaking.

>>85511578
Reddit was just recently busted for mods being Disney-bought. Behind the open nature of social media, there is something manipulative attempting to create narratives. And no narrative is complete when opposed.

>>85511693
So when exactly does that occur in BvS? My money is that you didn't even realize it was there until we pointed it out to you.

And no, it doesn't break the film as it symbolizes the birth of new myths.

>>85511693
I only know a couple of examples of what you're talking about.

>the Superman montage
>death of the Superman
>Supes half dead with the sun rising (arguably)

Anything else?

And what movie do you think, does religious symbolism right?

It's pretty funny that the same guys that defend Snyder's BvS, saying that people would blame Superman for Metropolis's destruction, even when he actually saved the world, simply because he was also Kryptonian and the reason why Zod came to Earth, are the ones trying to defend Snyder replacing the giant squid of Watchmen for Dr. Manhattan, and try to dismiss that the rest of the nations would logically blame America for Manhattan's actions, even when he attacked America as well.

>>85511667
I found it and watched it. Then I rewatched Kal El's actual birth scene from the movie to compare.
I'm not saying the scenes needed to mirror each other, but I think Zack failed in achieving what he meant to with that scene. He was close though.

>>85511789
>are the ones trying to defend Snyder replacing the giant squid of Watchmen for Dr. Manhattan, and try to dismiss that the rest of the nations would logically blame America for Manhattan's actions, even when he attacked America as well

I defend BvS and I don't defend this. Pull your head out of your ass. Any true Watchmen fan would arguably realize the importance of the squid.

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>>85511751
>>85511787
Not even the poster y'all replying to, but don't play dumb.

>>85511823
>Then I rewatched Kal El's actual birth scene
Go to the scene where he kills Zod. Mirror that with his birth on Krypton.

>>85511869
This is one of the most important scenes in the film. Any idiot who thinks this "breaks" anything is ill fit to discuss the film.

>>85511751
Sure, because sudden slo-mo and posing wasn't obvious enough, I needed someone else to tell me so. You don't even need to know the specific painting, if you're familiar with religious imagery at all, you know every time Superman was supposed to be Jesus. It's not fucking subtle at all.

>>85511787
>And what movie do you think, does religious symbolism right?
I would have to think about this, since it's not one of my interests when watching movies, so I do not tend to gravitate towards movies with heavy religious imagery and undertones.
The thing is that in BvS it was so fucking blunt that it's impossible to ignore. Superman's montage and death felt as if some guy in film school got a 200 million budget from somewhere.

>>85511833
You have to admit you're in the minority of BvS defenders. Most of them are Snyder apologists that call Moore a hack.

>>85511869
yeah, that's what I included in "the superman montage." That scene is just the start of it.

>>85511934
does it matter if it's "subtle"? if it was too obscure, it would be pretentious. snyder just likes to take a point across. how would you have done it better?

>>85511934
>I would have to think about this, since it's not one of my interests when watching movies
Nice dodge breh

>>85511984
>does it matter if it's "subtle"? if it was too obscure, it would be pretentious. snyder just likes to take a point across. how would you have done it better
This perfectly describes the hypocritical nature of Marvel shills.

The other idiot never even replied to me how Thor's arrival to Earth was more believable than Superman'. I guess talking shit is easy when you dodge every time your shitty marvels are called out.

>>85509363
>the OG french Beauty & The Beast, The Dreamers, M, 8 1/2, Ran, Once Upon a Time in the West, 12 Angry Men, My Dinner With Andre
jr high core

>>85511984
>does it matter if it's "subtle"?
It does. At least, the introduction of such imagery has to be subtle enough not to feel like something shoved into the movie by force, like it does in this film. If all the movie was nothing but religious imagery and posturing, it wouldn't feel out of place at all. But it's a plot driven film that stops dead on its tracks a bunch of times to show us the characters posing or moving in super slo-mo to channel some religious imagery. As if we didn't have enough Super-Jesus imagery in Man of Steel.

How would I have done it? No idea, that's a dumb question. I probably wouldn't have done it at all, because I think the Superman/Jesus thing isn't interesting at all. This doesn't mean that if it was well done, I could either let it pass or even enjoy it. I don't agree with Nolan's politics nor the ideas behind his Batman films, but they're well done so I enjoyed them anyway (the first two at least, TDKR falls apart in the end).

>>85490678
200% THIS

>>85512082
>This perfectly describes the hypocritical nature of Marvel shills.
Btw, I don't even like Marvel films. I thought Civil War was as bad, if not worse than BvS simply by being a much more cynical piece of shit. Bad movies are bad movies, regardless of the studio that produces them.

>>85490678
>Spider-Man 2 was well directed though.
It's unfair to compare Raimi with Snyder.
Even Darkman is a better superhero film than anything Snyder has ever done, and will likely ever do.

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>>85512134
Well, let's just agree to disagree. Personally me and my friends (who had no liking or interest in Superman whatsoever) enjoyed the religious symbolism. It was pretty much the first time they saw Superman in that light.

On another note, Superman being seen as a Christ-figure isn't a Snyder-exclusive thing. It's been done on the comic issue Kingdom Come (subtle, right?), and pic related from Smallville.

>>85512339
It was also done in Superman Returns and Ross' Peace on Earth.

It's no coincidence it only turned into a negative for these people when Snyder did it.

>>85512339
>>85512377
I hate it anytime it happens. It pissed me off in Returns the most.

>>85511899
>Go to the scene where he kills Zod. Mirror that with his birth on Krypton.
It doesn't really seem that similar at all. Snyder is definitely good with visuals and unlike a lot of the Marvel Studios directors actually has a vision/interpretation of these characters that he wants to pursue, but I think execution isn't good enough.

And after Superman Returns I don't think people wanted a new radical take on Superman that needs to be built up over a series of films, they wanted Superman Returns but actually good.

>>85512339
>Superman being seen as a Christ-figure isn't a Snyder-exclusive thing.
Yes, I know, it's the most obvious parallel and it's beed overdone in comics. That's why, if you're gonna make it in the movies, at least make it well, or in some inventive way. If aping some religious paintings by having your characters pose for several seconds is the best you can do, you can fuck right off. Show some creativity, do some work.

>>85511931
It's racist shite.

>>85512404
It's 0.01% of the films and that's all your fedora ass can obsess over. How do you function in real life?

>>85511787
>And what movie do you think, does religious symbolism right?
Ironically, Wonder Woman.

>>85512429
It's not you shitskin.

>>85512455
It's the part that the "PRAISE SNYDER" people fawn over. What are you talking about?

>>85512568
So your beef with these films is derived from some online fanboy battle of yours?

Good to know the basis and extent of your criticism. How many hours have you been posting in this thread just so you can have your say in this fsnboy wars of yours?

>>85490801
In five/ten years critics will realize this film is a masterpiece.

>>85511984
Does the movie explore these religious themes on more than a surface level? Or does he just do a blatant Jesus pose with no further contemplation?

Spider-Man 2 has really bad Jesus imagery in the train scene, but at least it kind of meant something there. Peter has his arms outstretched because he's trying to stop the train, Superman's arms have no reason to be outstretched in this scene he's just floating back to Earth. And the train scene in Spider-Man 2 happens right after Peter makes the decision to go back to superheroics and defend a city that doesn't really appreciate him.

>>85512600
I'm not the anon arguing over the symolism but fucking god, how do you not see how any time people give a valid critique of this film (Too many plot threads, rushed climax, too many liberties with characters for an adaptation) people usually respond with "B-but muh symbolism" when the symbolism Snyder has used were in multiple comic books for nearly over 3 decades.

>>85496873
>>85496775
>LARPing as film buffs

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>>85490643
S-p-i-d-e-r-m-a-n-2? That's not how you spell Winter Soldier

>>85512660
Sure you're not that anon. Always that anonymous dodge when getting destroyed.

>>85512672
Winter Soldier was great, but forgettable.
I wish the visuals in that movie had been as strong as the writing and acting.

>>85512186
>by being a much more cynical piece of shit
how?

>>85512674
If I am getting "destroyed" why don't you respond to the actual arguments?

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Does anyone have any orange slices?

Now THAT's writing

>>85512732
I did. I ended up with a major fedora tumblrina who obsesses like a mental case over total imagery that lasts 10s.

"Not that anon". Give me a fucking break you two-faced cunt.

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>>85512714
TV's obsession with Spiderman 2 is pure nostalgia. Try showing both to a normie or someone born after 9/11 see what movie gets a bigger reaction.

>>85512832
MY problem isn't the imagery (Not sure about the other anon), my problem is the fact people use the imagery as a fucking scape goat to the real problems of the movie, which I posted here>>85512660

I am personally fucking sick of people using the imagery that the movie is good when it only shows up for 10 secs like you said and is less subtle than comics 30 years ago. The shitty thing is that covers the Superman part when the Batman part can be entertaining.

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>>85512840

>>85490643
The key is for the characters to take themselves seriously, while allowing the movie itself is to be self aware. The primary flaw with BvS, plot problems aside, is that the movie is just so unbearably grim, and when the the film itself is ridiculous, that comes across as unintentionally funny. Spider-Man 2 worked because it wasn't continuously insisting that it was the most important story ever told. There were moments of levity, and it didn't shy away from being goofy.

Something like Dark Knight works because almost all of the goofier elements are stripped out of it and the movie is more or less played straight. If Ledger's Joker was still shooting comically oversized guns and electrocuting people with the buzzer gag, while maintaining the tone of the movie we got, it would have come across as cringey. It would have been like Amazing Spider-Man with the ridiculous CGI lizardman trying to turn other people into ridiculous CGI lizardmen in an otherwise grounded movie.

Disney Marvel has the opposite problem. They're afraid to come across as cheesy, so they undercut every dramatic moment with a quip. That's fine if you're functionally retarded and think those movies are actually funny, but otherwise it makes everything seem glib and inconsequential, which is a recipe for a very boring cinematic experience.

>>85490643
>Movie takes its characters seriously
>How is that a bad thing again?
Because the characters are ridiculous. One is a rich guy who dressed up like a bat to punch a clown, and the other is an alien Jesus Jew who wears flies around in a cape and tights, whose only disguise is a pair of glasses (and not even sunglasses) who feels weak when you show him a green rock and his nemesis is a bald rich guy with no real powers even though Superman (yeah, that's really his name) has every power ever.

To put it another way, what if I tried to make a serious Mr. Bean movie? Mr. Bean still acts foolish, but the movie tries its best to take him absolutely seriously. Maybe I could make all the scenes really dark and add a bunch of symbolism to make Mr. Bean deep, too. Maybe have Mr. Bean ask his teddy bear if he bleeds.

It's just ridiculous.

>>85513084
Q U I P S
A R E
L I F E

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>>85512915
Spidey 2 wasn't as good as the original. The acting minus Doc Ock was shitty and wooden. The MJ acting subplot was dogshit. The ending sucked and so did scenes like this. PROVE ME WRONG

>>85513084
>He hasn't seen Mean Bean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rg0Z520ZVw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv_C17omsMk

>>85513152
How did Tugboat see in that mask?

>>85513169
Must be CGI no mask can contain that HOTHEAD