How is it that this manages to succeed as an actual serious movie,

>>85196945
Because it has actual character stuff going on. Different from baka, Raimi gave a drawback to being Spiderman. In the end, you feel that it applies to you when you have to choose between being good or being happy. It's a serious question that has been discussed forever.
I haven't watched BAKA, but from the trailers I can tell that there is nothing going on in it, much like the entirety of the MCU.

>>85196945
>feel cheap, bland, and lifeless.
To you maybe. I enjoy them. Most people do as well. That's why they keep watching them.
You are just a bitter old man.

>>85196945
Because the Raimi Spiderman had a somewhat relatable character, whereas in Marvel Studios films, their characters' flaws tend to be essentially cosmetic and their characters are mostly perfect.

I haven't seen the new Spiderman, so I don't know how it deals with this, though I think Spiderman as a character is itself something more relatable generally.

>>85197246

No one wants to watch your fucking high school movie. Fuck off.

>>85196945

They made this character accessible to a wider audience than marvel's spider-kid. That's the big difference. Marvel making a film about a 15 year old shuts out potential viewers and only appeals to kids and tumblr.

It also helps when the director pours his heart into it and gives half a shit about the subject which in turn inspires the actors to actually care as well. That's what happened with the first two films at least.

It always helps that the way he struggles humanizes him for us viewers. Take him failing to get by; his shit NYC apartment that he can't even pay rent for, his job that he loses.

>>85196945
>Different from baka
>from baka
what?

>>85197246
I'm 18 years old dude

>>85197194
>you have to choose between being good or being happy. It's a serious question that has been discussed forever.

I think this is the most succinct and accurate assessment I've read on here. This is not only true of Spider-Man, but any great movie or story that deals with the morality of being a Good Man versus being a Happy one. Philosophers from Socrates to Kierkegaard deal with this question, as do storytellers from Homer to Hemingway. Raimi's first two movies made this struggle the epicenter of its hero's struggle. Everything from the humor to the action revolved around it. It was an entertainment with a universal struggle at its core. That core question, pain, and pondering is absent from a lot of Marvel's modern output.

>>85197246
DUDE I LOVE WATCHING THE SAME OL SHIT 10 TIMES A YEAR LMAO

Spiderman 2 doesn't end with a big fight scene, it ends with absolution. Peter gives Octavius a chance and Octavius changes at the last moment to do something good.

No other super hero film does this. Hell, few films of any sort do, I certainly can't think of one off of the top of my head. Protagonists and heroes frequently offer the antagonist mercy, or try to save them in what always feels to be a token effort before the villain causes their own death, but only here does something actually get accomplished. It's really human, uplifting and sad at the same time.

>>85198567
Villains that redeem themselves at the last minute is a trope of it's own. It's common enough.

>>85197194
Dafuq is BAKA ?

>>85198567

We will never get an emotional spidey film like raimi's again

>>85198628
Good examples. Tell me about them, why do they redeem themselves.

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>>85197194
>>85198676
What the fuck? I didn't type this shit. Can mods edit posts?
>meant BAKA

>>85198628
Do they get to bring friends?

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>>85197246
You have a cheap, easily-satisfied taste and you should feel bad.

>>85198676

Baka=homecumming

>>85198676
homecoming

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>>85197194
>>85198759
>meant BAKA
This is funnier than it has any right to be.

>>85198726
>>85198763
Hey hey, slow down now. I know nothing. I KNOW NOTHING.

>>85197356
>Because the Raimi Spiderman had a somewhat relatable character
No, he's not.
I can't relate to a guy who crawls through walls and shooters spider webs, and anyone who does is an autist.

Marvel Quips suck any movie they infect dry. They take over the film and render everything cringey and meaningless and juvenile.

There's a difference between humor and quips. There's a difference between quips and Marvel Quips. If you don't understand the differences you're a retard

>>85198567
Literally this just happened in Homecoming

>>85198951
Dude, really? It's about a poor kid trying to balance College, friends, and three jobs. One of those jobs is Spider Man. That's the most relatable fucking super hero movie I've ever seen. The powers don't change his personal life. Sure, it's cool, but it's just another job he has to do. And he doesn't even get paid for it.

>>85199066
No. In Homecoming Pedro tells Big Bird to stop or he'll die. Big Bird just says "Fuck you!" and tries to fly off. Then Pedro saves him. Bird didn't learned a thing compared to Doc Ock who at least sacrificed himself in the end.

>>85199132
Again, the concept of relating to superheroes is absolutely fucking stupid.
This is why I laugh everytime I hear about representing races in these movies.
No, just because you are white you are not Captain America.
Just because you are black, you are not Black Panther.
No one has what makes them special, AKA, their superpowers, you are just a bunch of bored dudes who decided to watch some superhero movie.

>>85199161
>Bird didn't learned a thing
He still keeps Pete's identity a secret from other thugs while in prison.

>>85199167
> Doesn't understand the importance of being represented racially on screen.

Oh, you're a gamergater aren't you

>>85199167
I guess relatability doesn't matter because they're all fictional
You're an idiot

>>85199236
No I don't, because it's pointless.
As I said, just because you are white, you are not Captain America.
Just because you are black, you are not Black Panther.
You will NEVER be a superhero, you are a nobody, an average dude with a completely average life who will never make in his 80 years of life the same accomplishments those characters made in a 2 hour long movie.

Sure, you can pull the "inspiration" card, but inspiration for what, to drive your car back home from the cinema?
To pirate the sequel to the movie you just watched?
To wake up at 6AM to go to work at the 7/11?

>>85199167
How can you not realte to Peter Parker? He's a poor loser with a sick aunt, who fails to do just about anything right

>>85199325
Because i'm not a poor loser with a sick aunt, and I worked hard to make sure everything I did went along as good as possible?

One man: Fiege. There hasn't been one controlling force over the creative direction in a franchise since George Lucas. Or Hitler

>>85199317
Do you think relating is the same thing as projecting? Are you an idiot?

>>85199362
Yes I do, what other reason could there be?
Are you telling me that just because your skin is the same color, you, an average nobody, can relate to a supersoldier who saves the world several times a year?

>>85199352
>Trying this hard to be stubborn
I may not be anything of those things either, but I can relate to his troubles. I can't identify with Steve Rogers, but he is relatable as fuck

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>>85199352
>posts on /tv/
>claims he's not a loser

>>85199388
>he is relatable as fuck
Yeah, I too was pumped full of super soldier serum and went around WWII throwing a shield at a rogue nazi division before being frozen and ending up 100 years in the future.

>>85199317
>>85199362
I think this guy is actually retarded. He's confused projection with relation and now he's projection his own stupidity onto everyone else.

Honestly a mind numbingly stupid argument. That people can't suspend their disbelief and find reliability in the human aspects of the character. Which makes the character more sympathetic. Some kids might go home and pretend to be spiderman, but seeing a movie where a guy struggles with balancing a lot of the parts of his life makes him sympathetic, makes me care more about him, and makes the stakes of the movie more personal and therefore more exciting. Film 101 you fucking retard. Jesus christ, embarrassing.

>>85199384
You keep bringing race in as if it matters. Also, relating is when you can RELATE to a character. You can sympathize with them.
Projecting is when you actively imagine being that character

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>>85199408
>>85199384
>>85199352
>>85199317
>>85199167
>being this autistic
Pace yourself buddy, you're gonna burn out at this rate.

>>85199420
But I can not sympathize with them.
Their issues involve fighting villains who want to destroy the world, or a city at least, and when they have personal issues, they are completely fucking stupid.

>>85198676
>>85198759
Its a word filter you fucking newfags

>>85199418
It's a superhero movie, the superhero is never in any real danger.
Even when he dies he gets revived a movie later.

>>85199451
Pete Parker's personal issues in several movies have to do with being a social outcast in high school. Cease your autism anon.

>>85196945
Spider-Man 2 probably has as many jokes as an MCU film, but the difference is that they aren't just quips. In fact the quips that Spidey makes are lame and perfectly in-character.
Raimi tells a lot of jokes visually, and a lot of it isn't just Peter making fun of people or having a laugh, its mostly other people or things putting Peter down. So in a way its completely in service of the theme of the movie, whereas MCU humour is superflouous to the narrative. The only times it really works for me is Iron Man and Guardians, because in those cases it is grounded in character.
It boggles me that people can't seem to understand that the guy who made both A Simple Plan and Evil Dead 2 might have a better grasp on tone than some hacky director who fetishises Ferris Bueller.

>>85199480
>He keeps adding useless info to the conversation

>>85199485
And while he deals with those, he puts on a retarded spider costume and goes fly around New York shooting webs.
I can not relate to that.

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I, hereby, declare that Spider Man Homecoming will be refered to as BAKA on this board.

>>85199516
>I have to relate to 100% of the character in order to projec- I mean relate
fuck off

>>85197194
>>85198759
Asuka please leave.

>>85199480
That's why good character development is so important. Stakes aren't about him dying, it's about his relationships, and his future. The part where Peter misses MJ's play to save kids is painful. Because you know damage was done to the relationship and you know he can't tell her what really happened.

And yeah, in the end, there's no real danger of Spiderman himself. But that's why the movie's climax revolves around Dr. Octavius's arc and Peter finally telling MJ who he is.

Pretty fucking good in my opinion

>>85199496
>because in those cases it is grounded in character.
Too bad those characters are always the same, just tell quips all the time.

>>85199549
For me to relate to someone that someone would have to be a normal dude.
That's why i'm interested in someone making a movie without any human characters, and characters that barely resemble people in shape.
Lets see how all the "muh representation" and "muh relatable" autists react to that.

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This backstabbing hack is in charge that's why.

>>85199621
Who did he backstab?

Raimi is a god at directing.

The only reason Spider-Man 3 even sucked is that they never released a director's cut. All they needed was like 30 extra minutes to tell the story.

>>85199167

Alexander the Great wanted to be like his hero Achilles and modeled himself after him. Hero worship and emulation are natural and important traits to human beings. Modern day superheroes, if handled with care, perfectly fit the mold. The fault isn't with what are essentially humanized demigods, it's that a very powerful company interested in bringing in the most revenue possible reduce any and all individuality these stories may have in order that they turn a profit.

>>85200076
And we have to thank these movies for all these Batmans, Captain Americas and Supermans we have around our world.

>>85200076
>Hero worship and emulation are natural and important traits to human beings.
Soundsl ike absolute retardation that needs to be cut off.

>>85199735

good filmmaking

>>85199735
Ike Perlmutter.

>>85200076
>Hero worship and emulation are natural and important traits to human beings.
In the past, and in the past people were savages, almost subhumans, and now capeshit only produces manchildren, so it has to go.

>>85199317
>>85199167
based realism poster

tell these kids how it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNxzdnZVIp0

I am genuinely saddened that they remade Spiderman again.

Spiderman 2 was such a fucking authentic and great movie. Fuck man.

>>85196945
I really don't understand why people praise Spiderman 2 so much.
Sure, it was a fine sequel, but I always thought it was a 7/10, like the first one.
A decent popcorn movie, but nothing more.

>>85200405
t.disney shill

>>85199408

You're just being obtuse. There's no way you can be this much of a cancerous autistic faggot who thinks people relate to this movie because of the main character's super powers.

>>85200481
Without superpowers this movie has nothing.

>>85200480
Haven't watched any superhero movie since The Dark Knight.

>>85198628
why does he wear the mask

>>85199476
shit was made 2 weeks ago. shut the fuck up

>>85196945
I AM VINDICATED

>>85200405
Spiderman 2 is a near perfect movie

>>85200405

Okay MCuck.

what I'm saying is
Marvel films don't take themeselves seriously
but Raimi's films didn't take themselevs too seriously either

>>85200603
What?
I don't watch modern superhero movies.
I mean, they have never been anything special, but lately they are just awful.
Tried watching Iron Man and Batman v Superman a few months ago but they were terrible, didn't even finish watching Iron Man.

>"You know, Peter, with great power comes great responsibility. Rudyard Kipling called it "White Man's Burden." Myself, I just call it as I see it: the responsibility of the master to discipline the servant."
>Ben looks directly at the camera.
>"The niggers, the spics, the chinks...It's our responsibility to civilize them. And if we can't? Then they shall dangle from the elm tree. The Day of the Rope is near, Pete. We'll have every nigger in this country dead or in chains in 10 years, and may God have me shot in a carjacking this very night if I'm wrong. God bless the American Nazi Party."

>>85199029
>There's a difference between quips and Marvel Quips.
which is

>>85200501

It has pathos.

>>85199161
>Pedro
>Big Bird

>>85200657
>Spiderman 1 quips
>Spiderman Homecoming quips
It then becomes very apparent

>>85200672
Anyone can make someone feel emotions through a goddamn movie.

>>85200651

There's your problem. You're watching studio helmed garbage. I don't watch super hero films much these days either though. The thing about the raimi films is that they were self contained movies that tried to tell a quality story without shoehorning in multi verses or advertising the next big crossover.

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>relating to superheroes
This thread is manchild central.
At least these movies will make you think you can shoot webs out of your wrists and finally make you jump out the window.

>>85199594
>That's why i'm interested in someone making a movie without any human characters, and characters that barely resemble people in shape.
Zootopia?

>>85200750

No they can't. You're clearly an example

>>85200835
No, those acted like people and had antropomorphic shapes.

>>85200576
The fuck, retard? The wordfilter for that acronym has been in place for a year and a half.

>>85200727
Did Raimi's Spider-Man even have quips? I don't recall any.
>It's you who's out Gobby, out of your mind
doesn't count.

>>85198793
Because I feel good when watching fun movies?
You see where your logic fails, correct?
>>85198405
Then you have the taste of a DCcuck, or a 50 year old fedora tipper.
>>85198614
>tfw your Marvel hate bread is so shit you need to resort to memes to bump it up
Sad Desu.

>>85200915
>Wrestling scene
>Goblin attacking the Daily Bugle
Pretty sure theres one more but I can't remember

>>85201059
It's been a while since I watched it, I don't even remember Goblin attacking the Bugle.

>>85198951
What movie have you watched where the characters life was exactly like yours? I'm very curious.

>>85202324
He's a shitposter ignore him

>>85197194
>baka
NANI?!

bump
I'm trying to come to a conclusion for my film journal

>>85200095

Superman and Batman movies came way before the MCU existed.

Amazing Spider-Man 2 looks and feels like a fake movie, like something characters would watch in a TV show or movie, or some kind of demo to show off a TV.

>>85204631
and why do you think that is

>>85196945
homecoming

>>85204692
it's flashy and over dramatic

>>85196945
H E A R T