Is Jon Snow the greatest military mind we've ever seen

>>85072668
I know you're being ironic, but there is really no reason why women shouldn't be conscripted just the same as men. Why should men go fight and die in Vietnam or Iraq while women just sit on their asses back home?

>>85072668
>fighting age
Huh? Why aren't 10 year olds fighting? Imagine how confused the enemy will be when an army of 10 year old attacks, they probably won't even fight back

>>85073005
Don't American troops kill child soldiers all the time?

>>85072954
they got rid of that shit after the US conscripts just got stoned and fragged everyone. why even mention Iraq when its completely the opposite of a conscription?

>>85073237
nah they run if the children fight back

>>85073293
Iraq was a very immoral war. America had no right to declare war on Iraq.

>>85073358
that literally has nothing to do with conscription

a la not an argument

>>85072668
Still a better commander than stannis and tywin combined

>>85072954
women are relatively useless in combat and can provide better for the nation through various economic support roles

using 100% of your people in combat is totally unsustainable

>>85073437
Are you implying that America's endless warmongering in the middle east is in any way justified? It's completely unjustifiable, and immoral. Countless innocent civilians have been killed because of America, children have been killed. Children have been killed by America.

>>85073481
that literally has nothing to do with conscription

a la not an argument

>>85072668
>there's no way game of thrones can get worse after season 6
>it gets worse
I'm loving it. It's like watching a trainwreck.

>>85072668
Most critics of the "muh stronk womyn" trope are approaching it from the wrong angle, that is the angle of realism. The problem with the trope isn't realism; Arnold Schwarzenegger mows down dozens of enemy soldiers in Commando without taking a single hit, despite being built like a fridge. Nobody complains about realism then.

The problem isn't realism, it's gender dynamics, particularly the way men view women. It's fundamentally unhealthy for men to strive towards seeing women as equals. I say strive towards, because no one really perceives the sexes as equals, not even those who claim to do so.

Part of a healthy mindset for a man is the desire to protect the women near and dear to him. If this desire does not exist, he is weak of mind and most likely a coward. When men with healthy mindsets are exposed to media that displays women fighting on equal terms with men, it feels like an attack on their value as men and their utility. A man being turned off by the "muh stronk womyn" trope is not misogyny. On the contrary, it's the opposite.

Modern media, quite simply, is not made for men with healthy views on women. It's made for nu-males and lost, young women.

This show is full of military geniuses.
>see those horsepeople who don't fully grasp the concept of siege weapons and clothing, let alone armor?
>I'm going to use them to invade a country right before a year long winter!
>How do I make sure those narrow streets in this city are well protected?
>I know, just give my guards long as fuck spears

>turn on got
>little girl kills an entire room full of men
>"I'll spare your life your a girl *smirk"
>next scene
>"girls can be soldiers too *Davos sidesmirk"

Is this a parody now?

>>85072668
>>85072954
Lol you are making this thread over and over. The first one was fun but you must be getting bored of it by now.

>>85072954
Because some folks are born made to wave the flag

>>85073526
I think the problem is that what is otherwise an okay TV show is being slightly weighed down by the female cast. I can suspend my disbelief for dragons and zombies but not for effective female leaders.

Not sarcasm btw.

>>85072954
Considering the fact that the US government already has major problems with their populace not supporting military action against another country, it would be a lot worse if images and video was shown on the news of blown up or captured women.

Listen, I'm not here to say that women are inferior than men, however there are major differences between the two sexes. Your average man is physically stronger than your average woman and is built for war. They have a predilection for it. They also like protecting women. In fact protecting women on the battlefield always leads to trouble because men will jeopardize a mission to save a woman in trouble, and this has been shown during studies of the IDF. Also you have to account for carrying gear and actual combat. You can't discount millions of years of evolution just because of equality, especially when it comes to a nation's defense.

However, when faced with an unrelenting enemy that desires to convert you into an army of the dead, or flying robots intent on your total destruction, then it would be acceptable to put weapons into every man, woman and child's hand. You have no other choice.

>>85072954
because that's a good way for 75% of your population to die off

>Completely desperate war for existential survival
>No prisoners, no attrition, just death
>WAAAHHH WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIGHTING IS JUST POLITICAL PC BULLSHIT
Jesus fucking christ, are you all just being ironically retarded?

>>85073526
The problem is that women are portrayed unrealistically only for the sake of something called "diversity", "gender-quality", etc. Shit like that doesn't exist, women are not equal to man in any way. And there is nothing wrong with that, hey are build differently in both mental and physical way. Shoehorning that shit down our throats just so a show can be "progressive" is annoying the crap out of me.

>>85072668
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pliska

Yeah.

>>85073696
In the past if you were in such a desperate situation that you had to use women on the front lines you had already lost the war.
In now war did women fight on the winning side.

>>85073696
>Jon Snu: Send off your women to die lads
>Angry Man: Hey senpai I don't want my daughter to die, why should she be forced to fight?
>annoying 5 year old girl: hurr I want to fight so who cares about your daughter
>oh by the way I won the argument now shit down and shut up faget

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>>85073528

>>85073746
Bravo D&D

>>85072668
I could write many many many essays on all of the things wrong with the formations, charges, tactics, strategies, plans and on and on it goes for Game Of Thrones.

Jon Snow isn't the problem, the whole thing is fucked.

Alexander is weeping.


Weeping.

>>85073696

This and also

>>85072668
>OP making this shitty fucking thread twice an hour for hours and hours

Holy shit shut the fuck up, go buy a damn fleshlight or something OP.

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>>85072668
women can do anything a man can. EQUALITY NOW!

I'm so glad I dropped it on DVD first episode of S5, holy fug.

>>85073646
Here's your (You), you deserve it.

>>85073730
The past didn't have fucking lich kings that were near immortal, had no need for logistics, have absolutely 0 political goals, and just there to act as death reapers.
>>85073746
SnuSnu: "Guys, we are completely and irrevocably fucked. We need literally every resource dedicated soley to fighting or we all get scourged."
WannabeSantaBeard: "U FUKKEN WOT M8"
MeanGirlsCandidate: "Pussy."

>>85073812
*first episode

Fucking autocorrect.

Is this a meme or did Jon Snow actually conscript women and children to fight?

>>85073864
Well thats just agreeing "women shouldnt be in battle in reality".
Saying "its just fantasy" validates everything OP says.

>>85073730
>In the past if you were in such a desperate situation that you had to use women on the front lines you had already lost the war.

The point is they are losing the war against a supernatural enemy of FUCKING ZOMBIES

Also in a world where there is magic and shit of course women have to do war shit, fucking Melisdandre throwing fireballs in the books

This isn't remotely the real world either did you complain about having female Night Elf Paladins in PvE quests?

This thread is stupid.

>>85072668
Also as for men fighting in an early renaissance era army.

The reason that men are basically the only option is twofold, firstly the equipment load is awesome in itself and these armies are literally especially mandated to forced march everywhere, this is basically impossible for women at their strength level. I wouldn't mind this if it functioned like a Roman Contubernium, with the women being dedicated pack mules and carers, essentially (Which is a much more effective use and would keep the men better rested for warfare) but the second problem is the larger and that to maximise their effectiveness troops of this era have to double up as field engineers, be able to construct forts and that kind of thing, and women are simply to weak for the enormity of that kind of effort, especially at speed.

If that weren't enough, shieldwalls need a great deal of uniformity in height and strength, without it they would collapse.

I conclude women would function better as servants, and at the very most as reserve fighting forces, maybe light infantry or skirmishers like Velites instead rather than conventional infantry.

>>85073910
The strenght of the book series is its more grounded and serious than say LOTR.
This is going away from the strenghts of the series into the realm of "shit writing".

>>85073646
>discount millions of years of evolution

Do you think people should start grooming women for war every gen so in the far future everyone can fight? Is that even possible?

>>85073904
In reality it's a fucking terrible idea when even total war scenarios require a 3-to-1 MINIMUM support-infantry ratio, yes.
But bitching about 'MUH FEMINIST AGENDA' is like the new bitching about 'MUH GAY AGENDA' when it's not happening at all in the setting.

>>85073808
>I want equality!
>But I don't want to have any responsibility!
God it sounds like my last girlfriend when I type it out like that.

While theres a lot of shit to be said about putting women in combat roles, the realization that they have to take action for their beliefs and the blind panic that ensues always tickles me pink.

>we're losing the war against zombies
>instead of running away lets make things worse by sending women and children to die

Like shit nigga take everything of value and move your people south or across the sea.

>everyones biggest problem of the episode was this

It's like 4chan is sexist instead of being smart

>>85073533
You mean little girl poisons an entire room full of men, it's not like she fights them all off

>>85073528
Well if they used phalanx tactics a narrow street would be good for them.

>>85073957
It is a hollywood feminist trope that women have to be equal to men in everything. Its not arguable, this is what happens when the tv show writers arent following the books.

>>85073590
>>85073707
I understand where you're coming from, but the lack of realism is not the problem. There are far more unrealistic things in the GoT than women fighting on equal terms with men. The thing is, fire-breathing dragons and ice zombies are not turn-offs for men. Women, who fight on equal or superior terms with men, are, because it deprives men of their utility. Men want to fight for women, and when they're deprived of that, they are repelled, and might even feel understandably emasculated, because they've been deprived of their role and identity as protectors.

>>85073696

A country is it's people. Men fight to protect their wives, children mothers. Even if the enemy is complete evil. Tolkien knew this.

>>85074003
Except that's not being portrayed at fucking all, /pol/nigger. It's an act of desperation and why it was responded to with protest.

>>85073967
There are other threads roasting different aspects.

Selection bias on your part.

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>>85073967
A bunch of dudes from your neighborhood are coming to kick the shit out of you with golf clubs and baseball bats. You can round up a group of people do go fight them. Do you call up your male buddies, or do you have your girlfriend text her friends (pic related) to come fight with you?

Wouldn't the 10 year old girls be alot more vicious if and when the Night King transforms them after killing them?

>>85072954
because forcing the entire population to fight a war is a good way to lose a war if your population rallies against it OR if they get BTFO your country still has a chance to live on if people are left behind. Since women are the more valuable sex (you can repopulate a country with few men and lots of women) it's unnecessary to force women into military situations.

>muh mens rights
misogynists are civil terrorsts and shouldn't be negotiated with

>>85074034
Except the Walkers are full-blown scorched earth and indiscriminate slaughter. If your non-combatants are going to get murdered anyway, they might as well have a weapon.

>>85074050
Call the girls so I can watch them get beat up

>>85073910
>This isn't remotely the real world either
>Biggest selling point of the series was how grounded it was and that reality beats idealism

Bit of a difference between a Mage lobbing fireballs and a 10 year old girl charging into battle. Brianne was fine because she was the exception to the rule and built like a man, she highlights just how weak the other women of Westeros are and even then she struggles against a weakened Jaime.

>>85074077
Bait

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>>85072954
Because more than half of the anons here could beat the shit out of Ronda Rousey. Don't bother posting those youtube videos where horny boys let her win.

>>85074115
How is that bait?

>>85072954
I know you post is pretty stupid but please study up on human physiology before commenting again

https://www.t-nation.com/opinion/women-in-ground-combat

>>85074115
>any argument that can be a legitimate counter-argument is "bait"

US public education is a joke

>>85073545
unfortunate

>>85074129
>one out of a million
>against the average male

Fuck off tard, unless everyone girl on earth can function like Rousey, please refrain from posting on this board again.

>>85074050
I call everyone.

>>85074111
>how grounded it was
>fucking Game of Thrones

Anyone who ever thought that is literally retarded shit is fucking ridiculous from the beginning.

>muh history

No it's shit at that, enjoy it for the ludicrous cartoon it's always been.

>>85074129
Why do all Anglos look like this? Why are Anglos disgusting both inside and outside?

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>>85073533
esxpanding on that
>Another Cersei is being cartoonishly retarded but then says she's smart, and then has an overly "clever" conversation with a faggot in leather designer clothes to reinforce that she's smart
>FUCKING ED SHEERAN CAMEO END IT NOW
>10 minute long scene just for dragon cunt to say its begun in the most monotonous voice possible

Honestly the only part that didn't feel like a parody was with Samwell Tarly.

This show was honestly amazing once and theres still bits of that left, but this is just garbage.

>>85074083
>xcept the Walkers are full-blown scorched earth and indiscriminate slaughter.

So were the forces of Mordor. Do you think men can fight effectively if they know their daughters are on the front line suffering or already dead?

>>85074038
>justifying obvious postmodern ideals

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>>85073730
>Women didn't fight in the Soviet army against the Nazis in WW2

>>85074011
Your argument is overly reductive. Dragons don't exist in real life so the depiction of dragons in fiction isn't dissonant with what the viewers know. Women do exist in real life and everyone knows they are weak and shit at fighting so depicting them in a way that ignores that is dissonant with what viewers know.

>b-but in this fantasy series the people aren't actually humans, they just look like them and the women are actually as strong as men
The reason this hand-waving doesn't appease anyone who isn't retarded is that the societies depicted clearly developed around sexual dimorphism like real societies did.

>>85074038
It says a lot when the love of realism is /pol/ activity.

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>>85074159
>Legitimate

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>>85074222
>memes

>>85074238

Me on the left

>>85074187
and if the Soviets weren't getting a shit ton of supplies from the United States and if the Nazis weren't fighting a war on two fronts, they would have lost.

>>85074187
And their strategy sucked shit through a straw too.

Soviet strategy was a fucking embarrassment and if their terrain wasn't fucking impenetrable and their tanks weren't so damn good they'd be even more of a laughingstock.

>>85074238
Neck Theory strikes again

>>85074129
Jesus she used to be cute but she just had to grow up. Just why.

>>85072954
because each woman takes 9 months to birth one baby. If you want 100 new citizens, you need 100 women. Meanwhile, one man has enough sperm to create an entire village.

If a tribe loses most of it's women, it's done for. They can't repopulate fast enough. If a tribe loses most of it's men, they can still repopulate fine provided they have a few men.

Women aren't people, they are a resource. This is a biological fact. They're too precious to squander as fodder in battle.

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>>85074129

>>85074261
>>85074299
me on the right tho

comin for you~

>>85073783
They're just adapting from the books so basically it's GRRM's fault.

>>85073481
Anon, do you know what conscription means

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>>85073646
kek its horny thinking of saving a woman instead of finishing your mission, <>Reallymakesyouthink.edu.think.org<>

>>85074338
If the zombies kill everyone that hardly matters.

Real life desperate situations usually do have everyone including women and kids fighting to survive because they're desperate. Everyone dead = repopulation hardly matters.

If people survive the fucking apocalypse then you worry about that shit.

Honestly people in the Middle Ages never thought like that anyway that's some post-Enlightment nuliberal garbage muh evolution philosophy and back then it was about God and shit so if God tells a young girl like Joan of Arc to be put in harm's way so be it.

>>85074358
Not really.

GRRM detailed that both the Dornish and the Unsullied have Phalanx formations, not reproduced, to cite one example.

>>85074050
I think I'd just fuck off somewhere else the one in the white t-shirt and the other in the brown vest.

And tell my girlfriend she can deal with it.

>>85072954
because if you enlist everyone from 10 to 70, there's not gonna be much people left at home, and your kids will be raised by some 80 year old until they're old enough to go to war.
Also probably economic bankrupcy, and no one to manufacture anything. Your soldiers will have to make every bullet count, because that's all the bullets they're getting.
No war effort either since people at home will be too young or too old to do anything. And the kids will be trained for war by 80 year olds.

>>85072954

Because men are different from women and better fit for combat.

>>85074038

Why are tumblerinas constantly lying to themselves and us...
Do you have really no balls to make your original point if you are not in a safe space cheering on your every word in a braindead fashion?

>>85074180
No, but Middle Earth wasn't dealing with the same political shenanigans that ate up the bulk of their armies and fractured absolutely any notion of alliance.
You're complaining about muh political agenda in the midst of a battle for survival of humanity.
>>85074185
>Thinks ideals matter when the world is dead
>>85074493
>I don't have an argument and can't provide any examples, better call them an SJW

>>85074479
You're talking not about a long-term public policy here in GoT but in a very short term last ditch effort to save everyone from the Ice God of Death, you'd be stupid not to just use everything you have in this case.

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>>85074193
Okay, but men exist in real life too, and we know that one single man cannot take on a whole army the way Arnie frequently does. Nobody complains about realism then, despite the fact that it completely defies commons sense.

Men like to feel useful, men like to feel strong, and there's nothing wrong with that. It feels good to impress a women by opening up a can of pickles for her, the same way it feels good to project yourself onto strong men who fight for their women. I don't buy the realism argument; I think men simply want to feel useful, and rightfully so.

>>85074535
>I think men simply want to feel useful

Yeah and some men get off on watching women warriors in fantasy fiction because its a fetish for fappin', honestly most normal people just watch it for what it is: a damn tv show with monsters and dragons. They don't feel threatened or emasculated or any other threat by some fantasy tv show. Worry about how much money you make at your job instead.

>>85074193
Except there's only one woman that's actually good at frontline fighting, and she's a freak of nature, and we're constantly reminded of it.
The rest use poison, subterfuge, politics, etcetera to kill. You just want a platform to bitch because nobody cares about the SJW push in gaming.

>>85074527
He was talking about Vietnam.
There ain't no Vietnam in Middle Earth.

But I guess Jon might as well. It's winter, so I guess there's not much people can do but stay home and masturbate around the fire.
On the other hand, every dead kid will strenghten the snow zombie army.

>>85074535

Arni beating hordes of poo in da loos is an over exaggeration of individual real life examples of alpha men besting vast numbers of lesser trained men.

Women generally being almost better at combat and ruling than men is a complete eversion of reality. That's a difference.

>>85074527
>you'd be stupid not to just use everything you have in this case
Yes you are. What if you sent 90%+ of your population to fight and only less than 5-10% survived? That's not nearly enough to rebuild your society. That's not even considering people can overrun and take your city since barely anyone worth a salt will be left there.

>>85074628

Yeah just consume our shitty, blatant propaganda, because it's not real, although we want to achieve real life societal goals with it, amirite.

Man I wish they would do a Traitor Son cycle adaptation. Miles/Christian Campbell is a history nut along with being a LARPer which makes for much better battle sequences than anything Martin could come up with. He knows and understands battle tactics both old school and new and it really shows. They're also so vividly written that they're basically on a plate for a good director to make use of. Seriously check it out if you haven't, dicks all over ASOIAF.

>>85073967
>unironically using the term sexist
God GoT season is the worst. Women are dumber and weaker than men, that's undisputable fact. Denying reality does not make you smarter, it makes you a delusional twat

>>85074628
I don't think men feel threatened by watching GoT, but I think they feel turned off by something that fundamentally doesn't appeal to them.

>>85074535
One guy doing some impossible bullshit rampage is the whole point of that kind of movie. People go in knowing they're getting that. Whereas here people are going along watching a bunch of politics and shit presumably because they're interested in this take on how recognizable human society is altered by having dragons and magic and shit, and the adventures that happen in this new environment. That completely collapses if you start arbitrarily deciding some well known assumptions about the human condition get thrown out the window halfway through your story despite the fact that things like the societal structure are based on those assumptions.

>>85074681
Good point. One exaggerates human nature, while the other one defies it. That is definitely a worthwhile perspective. The "stronk womyn" trope is at odd ends with human nature, which puts a lot of people off.

>>85074689
If sending 90% meant even a few of you would live while you'd all be slaughtered if you sent less, sure. In that worst case scenario you just want a chance a few people might even make it, you're not thinking about the next step because there's a good chance there will be no next step, fuck everyone's probably just hoping at best to go down fighting at that point and dealing with the end of the world being a reality that will soon come to pass. And plenty of people would rather die fighting than hiding so people go to fight.

>>85074535
>Nobody complains about realism then
I do. I can't stand action films that do this.

>>85074038
>act of desperation
>let's strain our logistics even further
>let's put a whole bunch of way weaker people in our phalanxes
>let's throw a larger number of less capable soldiers against an enemy that instantly assimilates all your fallen
>this will surely help

>>85074647
I addressed an argument I think is invalid and pointed out why. I never even said anything specific to this show you libcuck retard.

>>85074864
They're fighting a bunch of brainless rotting zombies so for most of them it's just about throwing people their way, only the White Walkers need skilled soldiers to counter. As for assimilating the fallen nothing can help that. They'll just do that to the villages either way. Pretty obvious they'll need the dragons for any hope of stopping it.

>>85074180
Not even that. Would you rather be in a shieldwall with your fellow trained men, or with a bunch of women and geriatrics in it? Would you rather go house to house in Fallujah with your platoon of trained soldiers, or together with a bunch of armed stacies plucked straight from starbucks? Cohesion is important. Inferior soldiers can indeed be worse than no soldiers.

Of course it makes sense to give women and kids some means to defend themselves if push comes to shove. But you don't want to put them on the front lines.

>>85073922


> Rapes and sex crimes are through the roof for mixed gender armies and each one causes a scandal reducing the combat effectiveness and morale of troops, this applies more so in a fantasy setting.

> The constant squalor and filthy conditions of siege warfare and even modern combat conditions of Iraq renders the females reproductive system barren. How were the populations who were wiped out by the Night King regeneration over the years? Through looking after the women and keeping them safe to reproduce to avoid extinction, it's like when Jon Snow died he saw it was better dead and wants to take everything with him.

> Different fitness and exercise standards. Women soldiers don't have to do the same rigorous testing. Through giving women special treatment in long distance running, circuit training and drills, by allowing them time to rest on a truck dramatically reduces the morale and effectiveness of soldiers.

Although as an anon said having them as support roles as councillors, cooks and logistics would be better as women have a natural warmth and a pre disposition for interrogating feelings from men, this would cut down on ptsd related suicides.

>>85074535
No one would complain if Jon Snow beat up someone a foot taller than him. It would be completely unrealistic, He is tiny and would get his ass kicked by most men his age.
But it would bug people if every line was about how 'short people can fight to you know' because the viewer would be overly aware that they were watching a vehicle for unrealistic wish fulfillment.

>>85074187
In negligible numbers. For every woman who was on the front, there were a thousand men. Women did make up a whole 2-3% of the total red army manpower, but in the wast majority of cases it was in non-combat support roles - medics, truck drivers, communications personnel. And even in combat roles it was almost never as GIs - stuff like crewing anti-aircraft batteries, aircrew, snipers, etc

It's a stupid meme that's been blown vastly out of proportion by literal communist propaganda.

>>85074866
>Call out arguments that make no sense from people who never bothered to watch anything but S7E1
>LOL LIBKEK BTFO
You provided no argument. At no point is anyone suggesting any of them are actually going to be good, or capable, but dead and useful is more desirable than dead and worthless.

>>85075029
>It would be completely unrealistic
I'm pretty sure if you trained a manlet from birth in combat he'd kick the shit out of some random 6 foot dude you pulled off the street.

>>85074844
Well there's no arguing that.

>>85075080
Read up.

Women are shit in Phalanxes, worse in Maniples, awful in loose formations where they have to fight on their own.

There's literally no military formation they don't actively undermine.

At very best a reconaissance force.

>>85074445
Jesus titty fucking christ you've won 4chan copper for the most retarded post I have ever seen here and there's guys roleplaying as creepy bastards and posting endless pictures of feet. You've got to be a certain type of stupid for the deprived audience of my home board to have more common sense than you

>>85075029
Them making a thing of "girls can fight" instead of just having it as part of their dumb fantasy show is stupid but you'd have to be retarded to not see that /pol/ just complains on all the other boards about women like a broken record all the time (with the flimiest dumb shit excuse to whine and bitch about), I' sick of their fucking agenda. /pol/ really is the cancer killing 4chan by taking everything so fucking seriously, which we used to make fun of people for doing.

Game of Thrones has made an endless parade of stupid and shitty writing decisions but this isn't one of them. "Duurrr Jon is a bad general." I'm way more pissed about the Stannis character assasination then something that shows Jon has his back against the wall. That's fine. I'm sick of /pol/ making everything about preaching and pushing their political agenda.

>>85074844
>And plenty of people would rather die fighting than hiding so people go to fight.
Plenty of young men who are fed lies about duty and honor and manliness.

>>85075080
What are you even sperging out about you moron? >>85074193 was my first post in this thread. In this post I addressed the argument that 'other things are unrealistic so being unrealistic isn't the problem' by pointing out a difference in the unrealistic things people are complaining about and other unrealistic things they're ok with.

>>85074914
Except we're shown that the wights move quickly and use weapons just like live people
>throwing people their way
Literally the worst thing you can do, retard. The more casualties you suffer, the more wights there are to kill. You want strong, well trained and highly motivated troops as much as possible. Weaker soldiers who not only prove a liability in a fight as well as eat your food and slow you down on the march are NOT a good choice to bring along. If you're fighting in a shieldwall, the last thing you want next to you is a teenage girl who can't even hold the bloody spear up.

>>85073646
>Built for war

Ancient warfare maybe - not modern warfare. No one is "built" for modern warfare, it's an aberration of nature.

you have your own general fuck off over there

>>85075197
Yes they are. While I agree that a woman could equally pilot a jet fighter as well as any man could, or be the commanding officer of a carrier, women just don't match men when it comes to being in infantry.

>>85075080
Group combat relies on cohesion and force multipliers. A phalanx is NOT strengthened by mixing a whole load of less capable soldiers in. It relies on its integrity to survive and defeat the enemy. A woman is a weak point that can tear the whole thing apart. What little benefit having an additional (much weaker) pair of hands offers is quickly outweighed by the liability of giving them the responsibility for the lives of others in the group.

>>85075197
Brainlet using big old words to hide the fact he's a coward. The female reproductive system needs certain ph conditions and temperatures to stay functional, meaning the majority of women who come back from overseas can no longer have children.

>>85075292
My nigga.

>>85075130
You're correct on all. I'm saying that shit is better than zero, and that I doubt it'll be fought in conventional fashion.

>>85075292
The first two lines, yes. If you know this much about medieval warfare, then you also know that formations broke about the time the third or fourth lines were hit, which is when most casualties occured.
And I highly doubt Gary Snustu is going to fight this with conventional tactics and formations, because that would be absolutely retarded.

>Use cannon fodder against an enemy that can raise them as undead where they are exponentially more powerful than when they were alive.

A normal soldier could probably beat his undead counterpart without much issue, but a child or old woman could never beat her undead counterpart.

>>85075197
>far stronger
>faster, more endurance etc.
>better spatial awareness and reasoning
>better pain tolerance (except for when women are giving birth and theirs goes through the roof)
>arguably a more aggressive and decisive nature, and more self-sufficient (less social) personality
>countless other small differences accumulated over billions of years of iteration
>none of these matter in modern combat
???

>>85075150
>women are women
>men are men
>political agenda
You are a dense cunt. Do you really not see? Everything around you, every piece of media you consume, every shitty subreddit you stalk on a daily basis, is pushing a manufactured, farcical political agenda on you. One that literally shouts you down for daring to say the truth. /pol/ isn't pushing an agenda, you're just so used to the agenda being pushed that someone NOT pushing it for a change is perceived as some crazy political fanatic. What you see here is a bunch of anonymous shitposters rejecting some obvious forced political bullshit, nobody is pushing anything.

I guess I can't really fault you. When everything you see 24/7 is "REPEAT AFTER ME WOMEN ARE JUST THE SAME AS MEN", it can seem quite shocking to see someone reject that or poke holes in it. So much so that you perceive those people as the agenda pushers.

>>85075391
>>arguably a more aggressive and decisive nature, and more self-sufficient (less social) personality

How is that arguable?

>>85075358
Do the words ACTIVELY UNDERMINE mean nothing to you?

It is literally preferable to have 300 Disciplined Hardened Drilled Spartans in a Phalanx than a thousand weak men, let alone including women in, actively undermining the support structure that exists to create forward motion.

>>85075391
I didn't even mention reaction time, that's a big one. 20-30 milliseconds for top-level runners.

>>85075383
>>85075383
>Completely missed the last seasons when it was shown there are only two known ways to kill a Walker
>Don't worry guys, we can totally beat them

>>85073526
fuck you

i love commando and i still think him mowing down a bunch of guys without taking a single hit is fucking retarded

It's meant to show that it's a fucking do or die situation in his mind god damn you fucking people.

Though for real >mfw sansa wants to centralise vassal power instead of keeping it dispersed and also appearing to be a generous king which will further inspire loyalty out of those you were magnanimous towards as well as show that you respect old claims.

Jon literally made the right call.

>>85072954
Jews need the women to stay at home so they get blacked while the white man are out fighting their war

>>85075429
I hadn't read anything substantial on that stuff so I didn't want to make strong claims. but yeah, seems fairly self-evident.

>>85075450
Oh, now I get it, you watched 300 and now you're an expert on historical warfare.
The stick and board phalanx fell out of practice long before the War of the Roses broke out.
The key component in the phalanx, even then, was discipline, provided you had enough strength to hold your shield, which isn't that hard.
This will not be a conventional war fought with conventional tactics when the only way to kill the enemy is with fire or obsidian, because magic.

>>85075423
What's so astounding is the fact that these "progressive" notions are completely novel, whereas notions like gender dimorphism have endured all recorded history, and yet it's the old notions which are wrong, and the new ones are obviously correct, despite the fact that they have not demonstrated any sort of sustainability.

The arrogance of the progressive mindset is truly astounding.

>>85075450
No it's not, medieval levy armies weren't hardened soldiers. They had cores of professionals and a ton of levies because that's more effective. Routiers and knights often made up the core of a force but the unwashed masses were the meat of it.

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>>85072668
uh it's the total war concept

it's not invading russians where the girls will just get raped

they all die no matter what if they lose

>>85075489
I wasn't implying that Commando was bad. Commando is pure kino. However, it's completely detached from any sort of realism, and yet neither you or I are repelled by it.

>>85075539
Lots of things persisted throughout history and are fucking bunk as fuck. Appealing to history is not a strong position to argue from. We know more now than we ever have by orders of magnitude, and the general consensus we have is... no consensus because we're constantly discovering things we just don't know shit about.

>>85075391
>(except for when women are giving birth and theirs goes through the roof)
that's a myth, like female intuition. women who have passed kidney stones have said that the pain was more excruciating than childbirth.
coincidentally, kidney stones in men have a longer route to take.

>>85075278
>>85075391
I never even denied the fact that women are inferior to men when it comes to combat, the salient point you should have derived from my post is that NO ONE IS BUILT FOR MODERN WAR.

You need years of practice and technique to survive a minute in a modern warzone. Then again, that doesn't protect you from a bullet does it? Methods of war have far outpaced man's ability to evolve naturally to it.

The only way individuals can endure modern conflict is to be subsumed in a superstructure (modern army with advanced intel), you will be dead in no time if try to lone wolf shit.

>>85075391
Also most of your "advantages" did nothing for those slaughtered in the last world wars. Muscles doesn't protect you from shrapnel.

>>85075491

No, he's made an idiotic decision that will backfire hard when the Winter kills off a majority of the population and the few Women desperately needed to repopulate will have been sent off to war.

>>85075521
>The key component in the phalanx, even then, was discipline, provided you had enough strength to hold your shield, which isn't that hard.

Except that's bullshit, a key element in discipline is being able to rely on the relative similarity of the strength level of the other members of your phalanx, otherwise it'll cave, there'll be a break in the line, and you'll be fucked.

>>85075627
This is kinda a binary thing. Winter won't kill off "a lot" of people if they lose, it'll kill everyone, if you lose population immediately goes to 0.

>>85075564
If they win, they all die anyway because Jon will have effectively reduced the female population.

Even if they win, the amount of females left will be minimal. At best a couple of thousand, out of which the majority will be killed during the Winter and those that survive might suffer from being unable to give birth a common problem in GOT.

>>85075656
If they win, the Winter and damages caused by the war will result in everyone dying anyway.

It's a no win scenario either way as it was always intended. They can win the war, but they'll all die from the Winter.

>>85075660
If you lose population =<0 if win population > 0

also you assume that it'll be a total massacre and slaughter with some kind of 90% attrition rate. and you're ignoring that there's women down south.

>>85075602
Yes and no.
Modern battle rattle, which is the shit you have to carry on your back, is about 80 pounds for 11b infantrymen, and I think 60-70 for 0311s. Women don't have the explosive physical strength needed to vault over shit with gear, and don't have the upper body strength required to assist a downed friendly. If anything, women would've been better in medieval wars than modern wars, but still shit.

>>85075655
>A key component in not shitting yourself and running from the stabby things two inches from your eyeball is how much the guy next to you can lift

>>85075595
Sure, if you're talking about empirically based, hard science. Thing is, the contemporary laws and overall zeitgeist are not based on empirical science. On the contrary, they are often in complete defiance of hard science.

>>85075521
And even as you say that the stick and board Phalanx fell out of practice which I fully admit it did, the Swiss Infantry Pike Square is nearly identical to the Macedonian Phalanx.

I'll accept that the Phalanx probably won't be used, though.

>>85075545
What part of "In a Phalanx" don't you understand?

Besides, disciplined heavy infantry fell out of favour in the middle ages in favour of shock calvalry.

>>85075602
>Also most of your "advantages" did nothing for those slaughtered
Yes they did. Being eventually slaughtered doesn't somehow mean that having better reflexes and not collapsing from exhaustion from carrying a 50 pound bag around didn't help them get to that point.

>>85075423
/pol/ this isn't even a fucking feminist thing it's just a "we are fucked and this is a catatrophic situation" thing. You're seeing boogeymen in your all important nerd teevee and vidja again. Calm the fuck down and do something that actually matters in your life instead of constantly shitting up a board that was meant to be fun and entertaining.

But I know, can't rest cause da Jewz propoganda, right? Not everything has to be about some fucking social agenda you little bitches.

>>85075731
No they aren't. I don't actually expect anyone to follow contemporary neuropsychology but to dismiss it as anything other than hard science drawing us to "we don't actually know" conclusions is laughable. Rigorous science is what's lead us to conclude we don't know shit about the brain, neuroscience has made us less certain about everything we thought about ourselves.

>>85072668
All he does is train girls 10-16 though, right?

>>85075718
Push, because you're literally pushing into enemy ranks to break them up.

Don't pretend like strength isn't relevant in a Phalanx and having a strong backbone doesn't prevent the line being broken.

>>85075739
The pike formations were all about mobility, though, and primarily used expressly due to the shift towards cavalry you mentioned. IIRC the first effective use of muskets was when mixed with pike formations for that reason.

>>85075792
>Still thinks a phalanx will be used at all
>Still thinks phalanxes were used at the point of history GoT is loosely based around
>Still doesn't understand most line formation casualties in ancient warfare came from lines breaking rank to rout

>>85073481
>be civilian in Iraq
>''fucking american pigs, fighting the talibans turning this country into a war zone''

>be civilian in Iraq after US hippies decide to withdraw troops
>''fucking american pigs are finally gone now things will get back to normal''
>two days later talibans rape and kill your 6 year old boy and steal your goats letting you to starve to death
Allahu snackbar

>>85072954
I don't see a a problem with women in the military, but their jobs need to be suited to their physical abilities. Front line combat is not one.

in got, they need to like have the women use crossbows and shit like that.

what the fuck are these niggas pretending like they're going to use a phalanx of girls against the white walkers

>>85075744
>>85075718
Again, you think I'm arguing for women. I'm saying that modern war is a shitshow in general. The only time you can enjoy a modicum of triumph is if your army is VASTLY superior to your enemy's.

There's a reason why most modern armies now use machines to transport goods rather than men, it's all about efficiency, nothing about physical prowess and "honor".

>>85075744
So being a pack mule means you're perfectly adapted to modern war? What a joke.

>>85073526
>Part of a healthy mindset for a man is the desire to protect the women near and dear to him. If this desire does not exist, he is weak of mind and most likely a coward


w-what if i don't have women around me

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>>85075769
>implying pol isn't doing the same thing as "marketplace feminists"

They spend all their time consuming this "jew" media so they have to bitch about it to absolve themselves for spending time watching it instead of going out and doing shit.

>>85075739
The phalanx is fucking useless in a medieval environment, and no, heavy shock cavalry was a very late development, knights were primarily heavy infantry for the majority of their existence, and professional soldiers, your serjants and routiers were also heavy infantry by and large.

It's a renaissance thing where the sort of thing you're talking about comes in.

>>85073005
child soldiers are a thing moron

>>85075491
rewatched episodes 9 and 10 of S6 as well as the new one. what is Sansa's problem
>gets mad at Jon and Davos for not asking her for input at the battle planning
>has nothing to say anyway, just talks about how she "knows Ramsay" and apparently all of Davos and Jon's years of training and experience counts for nothing against this all-powerful enemy (the saddest thing is that's actually how D+D see Ramsay)
>passive-aggressively doesn't tell them about the Vale army coming, consigning hundreds of her own people to death
>undercuts Jon at a major meeting of his lords because she wants to spite the remaining faultless members of houses that have served the Starks faithfully for hundreds/thousands of years and give their land to randos
is she supposed to be sympathetic at this point? are we supposed to pity her because the littlefinger/lannister scorched earth cancer has gone to her head? isn't one of the major points of the story that that isn't a good long-term approach, e.g. the state of the starks vs the lannisters at the end of book five? (on upward and steep downward trends respectively) why is Jon being so nice? for that matter, are we supposed to sort of admire cersei for "solving" a problem she herself caused in the easiest/dumbest way possible and causing her one remaining child to an hero? are these supposed to be characters we think are smart?

I don't want to watch this shit but my dad really likes it and we don't have a whole lot in common

>>85075837
>they need to like have
You need to kill yourself

>>85072668
>women
>fighting
No.

>>85075824
>The pike formations were all about mobility,

Not really.

Pike formations were really about the discovery that a reasonably disciplined force moving in formation could break shock calvalry's advance, and shock calvalry WERE for mobility.

Same guy

>phalanxes were used at the point of history GoT is loosely based around

They're literally used by the Dornish and Unsullied in the series.

And as I've mentioned and you don't seem to object to pike formations are identical to the Macedonian Phalanx more or less, and contemporary to the time period anyway.

>Still doesn't understand most line formation casualties in ancient warfare came from lines breaking rank to rout

I'm not disputing what most casualties are being created by, but to create that situation you have to actually break their ranks, and in a phalangial situation that depends on the strength of a pushing match,which were common.

>>85073481
hi ISIS

what are the white walkers planing on doing after they kill everyone?

>>85075597
it's pretty damn painful, just not as acutely painful as a a bad tooth abscess. it's more about how long that pain lasts and that short of an epidural there's not much you can do to make it go away because of baby's health and other shit.

>>85075912
Honestly I think that it's the sign that sansa is getting a head about her for this kind of thing. She's not fully there yet, but she's learned enough to start playing the game and she wants to. And she keeps seeing this shit as keeping her down.

>>85073528
>>85073997
well actually *fixes glasses*

in books they abuse how stuck together unsullied are and they throw pots of boiling oil on top of them

since unsullied are just autistic eunuchs, not fucking futuristic robots, it tends to work in breaking them apart

>>85075890
why are there not more pole hammers in this show? it was one of the best weapons against heavy armor

>>85075873
>So being a pack mule means you're perfectly adapted to modern war?
No? Stop arguing with your strawmen. If you replaced all your male soldiers in ww2 with female soldiers and designed your battle plans around female ability then even more soldiers would be slaughtered. People dying doesn't somehow mean that being faster and stronger didn't matter at all.

>>85074011
is there any woman who fights on equal terms with a man in the series that is not named Brienne, who is confirmed for a female Rich Piana of the GoTverse?

>>85075873
Actually, yes, as most infantry are indeed pack mules whose only job in the US doctrine anymore is to find enemy and call in ordnance of some sort.
Soldiers are expected to carry a fuckmothering ton on their back and run miles doing it. Modern infantry relies almost entirely on running, endurance, upper body strength, and explosive on-demand power.

>>85075948
>Pike formations weren't for mobility
The entire point was that they could move as a unit as required.
>Sandnigger mass produced infantry using suboptimal but effective tactics
Who knew?
>You have to break ranks to rout
>When most routs were caused by people shitting their pants
Guess what'll happen when you stab the same guy twenty times and they give no fucks?

>>85075932
If you do it with me, then okay

>>85075890
>The phalanx is fucking useless in a medieval environment

The Swiss pikesquare was one of the most major tactical revolutions of that era, and it mimics the Macedonian Phalanx.

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>>85075881
Then you need to find some, brother.

Women are pretty fucking great. Putting them on the front line may be a bad idea, but life would be pretty empty without them.

>>85076005
Because chainmail is actually pretty decent against hammers, it moves more, it's when you get the big slabs of metal that just cave under them instead of flowing that they become brutal.

Yes I know that the designs have most people wearing plate but the weaponry and the like is really more early-mid middle ages imo rather than late/renaissance when cannons and plate and pikes were becoming the hot shit

>>85072954
You historically illiterate fucktards that defend that decision need to watch that video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSX7iT0n65Q

>>85074338
If that's the way we're approaching, men are also a resource, as a workforce and as a defense force.

>>85076042
that was the late 1400s, we're not medieval any more.

>>85073590
The most annoying thing about the show is that women make up 3/4 of the significant protagonists and many of them (Yaara, Daenerys, Cersei, Arya, Sand Sneks) are overpowered in some fashion. It was easy to believe that Ygritte was a great marksman because she lived as a wildling her whole life and it's easy to believe that Brienne is a very powerful knight, but it's hard to believe that people would follow Daenerys or Cersei despite their obvious/near insanity and weak rule, that Yaara would gain a ton of respect from a very masculine society in the Iron Isles, that Arya would be able to become such a powerful and imposing assassin, and that the Sand Snakes would be such good combatants and not be killed/forced into a dungeon for what they did to the ruling family.

There are only three female characters on the show that are shown to be weak constantly. One is Misande, who was doesn't really factor into the main plot and is the most competent. The other two are Gilly and Sansa. Gilly is an incestuous rape baby and Sansa has been dragged around the entire show.

>>85076021
Yara and Ygritte, arguably Aria.

>>85073005
>Imagine how confused the enemy will be when an army of 10 year old attacks

You know the enemy is a fucking demon leading an army of mindless zombies that just won't give a single fuck wether they fight men, women or children right ?

>>85076011
Most of the advances made in world war 2 was done by mechanized infantry, artillery and bombing.

I use strawman because you mis-characterize, you glossed over the original point, so why should I respect your opinions in turn? America can win most conventional wars nowadays with drones - again, emphasizing the point that modern war had seen a decreasing use of meat bodies to fulfill once utilized roles.

>>85076029
>>When most routs were caused by people shitting their pants

Most, but victories over disciplined enemies are achieved by physically breaking their ranks.

It's why the wedge formation is so commonplace.

>>85076060
ahem.

>lindy, fucking, beige.

At least link someone who has half a clue and doesn't just run with whatever fucking idea comes into their head, and there are several good youtubers who do know their shit, like scholargladitoria or metatron.

Who would win, a Phalanx of Unsullied or a similar-sized units of shieldwalling, spear-through-opening, slowly-approaching Boltons?

>>85076021
And the sand sneks.

>>85076089
The battle of Morgarten was in 1315, when these tactics were first employed.

>>85076132
This is true, but we're still discussing things completely irrelevant to the original argument.

>>85075873
if the original guy had said "built for violence" when referring to male humans, would this discussion have taken place?

I'm glad he didn't.

I still disagree with your point, though I'm not entirely sure what it is.

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>>85076130
>America can win most conventional wars nowadays with drones

>>85073479
It's not a conventional war between two human powers, where one will beat the other, break or take some of their shit, and subjugate/rule the populace.

It's a war of elimination
Against you
and your species

To elaborate even further, it's a war of elimination waged by another species that can convert your dead into undead.

TLDR the entire fucking rulebook goes out the fucking window and women and children now have to fight or die - there is no alternative - hiding just delays inevitable death

>fighting demonic ice monsters that can't take the heat

Like nigga just walk to Dorne or sail across the sea if you're lazy srsly

>>85076119
>Yara
Gets scared off through Ramsay's plot aura + dogz. Does she have one actual decent fight?

>Ygritte
Gotta give you that, but everyone can be seen as a decent fighter with a bow from a range

>Aria
She's GRRM's wife's favourite, that's JonSnowy tier of plot armor.

>>85076155
The way I recall it, the fight was going kinda even.

>>85076130
>I use strawman because you mis-characterize
you're retarded.

>so why should I respect your opinions in turn?
the only opinion i'm expressing is that your """argument""" that male physical advantages didn't matter in ww2 because people died would only make sense to someone with down syndrome

>>85072668
there's no point in ALL of them to join the fight, the male soldiers would be too focused on keeping their wives and children alive than actually do what they are fucking told, it's stupid

>>85076102
Danny's rule has been held together by fanatical following and having one of the largest purely professional armies out there. A lot of people wanted her to keep up with her absolutist shit rather than temper it like she does over time.

Cersei is ruling by fucking fear alone at this point, and Arya becoming an assassin is pretty reasonable.

Yaara, it's fantasy and it's not totally beyond the scope of believability that if a women proved she was hard she could get the loyalty of people who only really care about being hard.

>>85075987
but she just seems like a dumbass who thinks she has it all figured out. like Cersei. makes her unlikable, and I'm biased toward her to begin with because Sophie a cute.
And I actually like her in the books

>>85076175
Well, to get back to it.

What kind of tactics do you think will be used against the Wights?

>>85072668

Eh, I guess women can throw stones from the top of a wall and fetch arrows, so it's not that retarded.

>>85076232
You're just saying that because you hate women.

>>85076056
I get the utility of swords, but chain mail is less effective against piercing weapons like spears, so shouldn't we see more pole arms and stuff ?

>>85075142

There are numerous examples throughout history of women fighting in desperate situations. That's basically the only time they do fight.

Jon Snow was being perfectly logical. The retarded thing was that the reaction of the lords was like a fight between 21st century /pol/tards and SJWs.

>>85076194
Built for violence and built for war are not synonymous. Please understand context.

My original point is that modern war, as we see it now, isn't really a place for men - rather it is a place for machines, handling information and orchestrating battles. It is staggeringly complex - even in modern wars in the 20th century, the grunt had to rely on a complicated system of communication and intel being compiled by people 100s of miles away.

As soon as firearms were first introduced into armies, any semblance of being "naturally built" for war vanished.

>>85076130
>Most of the advances made in world war 2 was done by mechanized infantry, artillery and bombing.
Except for the parts when infantry would literally have to march for hundreds of kilometers with heavy equipment on them because they didn't have enough vehicles.
Go read some books about the Ostfront, nigger. The troops were required to have pristine physical condition and even so exhaustion was still a problem sometimes.
Your weak women would've stood no chance whatsoever. Kill yourself.

>>85076222
>Gets scared off through Ramsay's plot aura + dogz. Does she have one actual decent fight?

She kills several Bolton henchmen with ease. Ramsay's dogs are weirdly OP though; that scene really doesn't make much sense.

>The way I recall it, the fight was going kinda even.

Bronn is one of the show's best fighters, and he was really struggling against a girl half his size, who fought with daggers. Jaime was getting dominated, though to be fair, he was fighting with his off-hand.

>>85076173
That was a completely different thing closer to a scottish schiltrom than the swiss pike squares. u wot. The kind of pikes that came out and made chain worthless weren't a thing until later on when metallurgy got better which is when the kind of pikes you're talking about got into their heyday and eventually lead us to pike and shot.

>>85075833
The Taliban is fucking hundreds of miles away in Afghanistan, not Iraq you illiterate inbred.

>>85076292
Incendiary fuckmothering everything that can be launched, thrown, slung or shot.
Burning oil and pitch being thrown down the side of walls, a la Warcraft II.
High-mobility formations luring walkers into fields of pitch to be lit.
Going down the dragonglass route, probably polearms tipped with the stuff, if just for mass production speeds.
Dragonglass-throwing ballistas.
Fuck, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some pure fantasy shit like a glaive thrower.
Don't forget we also have magical fairies that'll probably show up at some point. Maybe we'll have human casters.

>>85076209
His point still stands. It would make more sense to make women stand in production line makes weapons, armour/clothing, food etc. His enlistment only makes sense if everyone is already armed to fight which is doubtful realistically. Even if everyone was properly armed and protected with proper armour someone needs to grow or import food and carry it to the army.

>>85074129
The majority of anons are stronger than rhonda I agree but rhonda could still arm bar 90% of anons thru better technique

>>85076227
I'm saying the benefits are marginal because your fate was normally ordained by busy-bodies miles away, they never really banked on your "physical advantages", rather your ability to be cannon fodder and decoy.

Honestly, strength hardly factors into modern war except for transport of personal equipment, the focus should be on mental endurance if you want a trait that's actually useful in a modern combat zone.

>>85076208
They're waging a war now with exclusively those drones.

>>85076398
It was a Phalangial formation dependent on long Pikes that broke Heavy calvalry charges.

>>85076381
Bronn also had to have awareness over 3 enemies and Jaime, since he knew Jaime was dead weight and if Jaime dies, Bronn is dead meat. It was essentially 1.25 versus 3, plus unconventional weapons multiplier.

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>>85075984
there are a lot of things that are pretty damn painful and last longer than a delivery, we just don't put people who experience them on a pedestal. probably because they don't bitch and whine about it.

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>>85072668
Already been done

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Crusade

>>85076316
Until you can get thin enough points to go through the rings they're not that great. The second they got them though everyone with money wanted them plates.

>>85076380
>Your weak women would've stood no chance whatsoever. Kill yourself.


How many times do i need to fucking repeat myself you utter moron? Do you lack reading comprehension? I'M NOT ARGUING FOR WOMEN.

I'm saying that modern war is and was becoming a place increasingly hostile to humans, to the extent that even in those wars of the 20th century; reliance on machines was what won battles - not the strength of men.

>>85076405
Who cares about the name or the faction you stupid nigger? The point still stands, when US troops leave the civilians have to suffer at the hands of extremists. Can you disprove that?

>>85076471
>Strength hardly matters in modern combat
Except that's fucking wrong.
>80lbs ruck on your back
>Need to be able to run fast as fuck, for extended periods, while wearing it
>Needs explosive strength to get around/over obstacles
>Occasional need to carry someone or their equipment so they don't fucking die
Do you know anything about modern warfare that didn't come from vidya?

>>85076489
Still, common sense says that Bronn should have rushed at the whip woman, since she has no real means of close quarters defense against a sword, before tackling the dagger lady. Considering how dexterous and agile Bronn is, this should have been an easy feat, since Jaime was distracting the spear chick.

>>85076560
>Doesn't know what the ANA is
>Doesn't realize we spent a decade building a police force for them

>>85076471
Strength is genuinely more important now than it ever has been for infantry patrol missions and the like.

>>85076471
>they never really banked on your "physical advantages"
you heard it here first from this brilliant military strategist, guys. the army was actually completely wasting its time getting guys in shape and would have had equivalent results with a bunch of asthmatic fatasses. crazy how the people being paid to figure out the most efficient way to kill germans didn't understand war like this guy does

>>85076374
>its a guns weigh nothing post
>its a marching isn't required with guns post
>its a guns don't include horrible realities of war that require a male psyche to deal with post

If guns replaced all need for men in battle we would have seen women being conscripted in to armies in the 1500s.

>>85074535
>Nobody complains about realism then, despite the fact that it completely defies commons sense.

Yeah, but Arnold's movies are campy action movies specifically about a bad-ass man killing lots of bad guys. Game of Thrones is supposed to be a show more about medieval politics and war mixed with some fantasy elements. You think people wouldn't complain if say, the Hound suddenly shows up and mows down an entire army with a huge ass mace?

This thread is confusing me. Is everyone suggesting that they shouldn't prepare women and children to fight the walkers?

Enemy soldiers might let women and children off with a little bit of rape, but zombies give no quarter.

>There's now a really good chance we're gonna see 10 year old and 60 year old women getting minced by white walkers

unsure how to feel about this desu

>>85076560
If the US never meddled in the middle east then neither problem would exist in the first place. Cart before the horse.

>If I set a fire in a house and leave, then the house goes up in flames and burns down. So you see the reason why I need to stay here right?

>>85076514
>doesn't know the childrens crusade was a fucking meme that didn't actually happen

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>>85076629
A 10 year old white walker was literally the first gore shown in the entire series.

>>85076508
i went through two days of abscess pain and two days of labor
the first makes me an irresponsible cunt, and rightly so
the second makes me a bringer of life and that's probably more what it's about
women are put on a pedestal period, child birth pain is irrelevant

>>85076577
common sense is a great thing to have post factum

i'm not making excuses for sand sneks cause that whole arc was butchery, but Bronn was outmanned, outgunned, on foreign soil, in foreign city, has no idea if they have any backup, has a deadweight of Jaime to worry about. IF they were winning, it was due to numbers and surprise-uncertainty factor more than actual combat prowess.

>everyone's training
>nobody's harvesting or tending the animals
>everyone dies before the battle

>>85076547
Not even the guy you're talking to but you're a fool if you think men aren't required in modern war. Drones aren't controlled by an AI and they can't clear a building room by room either.

>>85076471
A military conflict against underequipped sandniggers is hardly a war.
If you're talking about an actual war there's no way to avoid urban warfare, or you think Vietnam could've been won by air dominance alone ? Hint: it didn't happen

>>85076727
You know you can drill for like an hour a day and still tend to the field.

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>>85076680
This, but also will someone explain the symbols being left by the WW's?

>>85076727

Its funny how in r9k-ish women hate threads like this every says how inferior and useless women are, then complain how they are needed for critical jobs elsewhere and need to do that instead.

>>85072954
>I want my people to die completely and never to replenish their numbers
Women are the bottleneck of population growth. A handful of (alpha) men can impregnate thousands of women; in fact this is nature's preferred way to keep beta males out of the genetic pool.

Sending your women to die is
1) cowardly
2) stupid
3) suicide both on the front and at home

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>>85076629
That's not really how it works, familia. Contemporary movie and television producers want to demonstrate that women can fight just as well as men, but they also don't want to depict violence against women, so they have to resort to making the women overpowered fighters who emerge from huge battles unscathed.

After all, woman can do everything that men do, but they do it better, while wearing high heels.

>>85076597
Training was more for discipline and compliance than it was to improve you physically.

>>85076562
Most men don't meet current US army standards for physical fitness, they've scaled back on the amount of equipment you need for excursions and increasingly used vehicles - because efficiency.

>>85076594
To be a pack mule, not for combat. It's a testament to how little US infantry actually engage in frontline assaults, as someone alluded to above, just call in the artillery at the first sign of trouble.

Despite that, your statement is factually wrong, strength would be far more useful in close-quarter combat before firearms than it is now with.

>>85076374
I just don't understand what you're arguing. It seems unnecessarily pedantic.

>evolution didn't magically prepare male humans for the complex methods of modern warfare

Right. We've invented our way into all kinds of situations we're not ideally suited for. But the other people were just arguing that men are still much better suited for it (combat) than women are, and you don't seem to disagree with that, so what are we doing here? Besides passing time

you dumb fucking niggers there's an army of the dead coming

why the fuck wouldn't you train the women

if it were possible, they should be training the livestock and house cats too, because ARMY OF THE FUCKING DEAD

calm your aspergers you bunch of fucking incels, jesus christ

>>85076780
> half ass training and farming
>half starved by the time battle comes around and die from poor training
>>85076780
>every poster posts the game argument
OK queen.

>>85076780
t. redditor

>>85076747
>If you're talking about an actual war there's no way to avoid urban warfare, or you think Vietnam could've been won by air dominance alone ? Hint: it didn't happen

Yet it mostly did, men are used to keep people from not coming back into a zone you've just leveled. The highest priority in any modern conflict is air dominance.

>>85076739
Didn't say they're not needed at all, by they're of fleeting importance with the advancement of technology. Always have been, always will.

>>85076538
What was the best weapon against chainmail?

>>85076632
but anon, the taliban flew planes into our buildings so we had to invade a country and depose an american installed puppet-turned-dictator because yellow cake. don't you understand that we can't leave the power vacuum we've created? think of the children we haven't bombed to death yet.

>>85076817
>Training was more for discipline and compliance than it was to improve you physically.
if marching around with 80 pounds packs was not a necessary part of their optimal strategy to kill germans then why did they decide to send infantry out running around with 80 pound packs? why not just eliminate infantry since it apparently didn't matter at all what they're doing?

>>85076837
>>85076727
Bebdigo Gratis

>>85076817
Jesus christ you're fucking beyond redemption.
You don't seem to understand that the only infantry that operate like you think they do are Rangers, SFOD-D, JSOCT etc.

The scale-back on gear still leaves most infantry with over 60lbs on their backs while fighting.

And the need to use physically explosive power on demand, while carrying that weight.

The "most of the army doesn't meet physical quals" is from overweight pogs that aren't in combat units, because the Army is mostly comprised of non-infantry.

>>85076780
>women are useless at fighting
>this means they can't perform an equally important task like farming

No one has said this. In fact people have said this would be more logical.

you guys realise that this is no ordinary war right. They literally need every single ounce of strength from the human race to defeat the walkers. There are tons of able bodied women out there that could fight but don't because of tradition. Jon's approach was simply the most logical, there's nothing wrong with it. Swordfighting is about skill more so than muscular prowess. You nerds would all get btfo by an average 12 year old swordfighter in a match so stfu.

>>85072954
You know that's how USA came to be THE USA right? They were a industrial juggernaut that produced supplies and ammunition both the World Wars thanks to WOMEN being delegated to factories while abled men went preparing to join the war

America is like that support that steal killshots during ganks.

>>85076827
It was a minor digression from what the main subject of his post was, I just took offense when he assumed men are "built for war". I just pointed out that built for violence and built for war aren't the same thing - and expounded on the point that modern war isn't a place you are individually built for. There's a ubiquity among many adolescents to romanticize war and conflate the complexity of modern engagements with simple skirmishes of the distant past.

>>85076780
But women are not physically capable as men, otherwise sports and athletic competitions wouldn't be gender-segregated, and women are needed for the most critical job in all civilizations, which is birthing the next generation.

Your post has a lot of moral grandstanding, but it's lacking in compelling arguments.

>>85076780
>then complain how they are needed for critical jobs elsewhere
that's because the competent people previously doing those critical jobs are now in the frontlines.

>>85076894
The issues there is that farming isn't something you can do in Westerosi megawinters, you're either stocked up or you're not. This was a plot point in an earlier season when discussing logistics against the North. Why have a bunch of bitches and brats hanging around doing nothing while you're facing extinction?

>>85076926
If it really did increase military power to march women off to the front lines all the wars would have had women in front lines.
It doesnt, they're fucking useless and distract the males who need to have good morale to fight well.

>>85076894
And this is the fundamental misunderstanding of modern feminism. Traditionalis understand that the two sexes have their own roles and support each other in their roles to advance society. Modern feminist ideology wants women to assume male roles which ultimately hamstrings society.

>>85076817
>strength would be far more useful in close-quarter combat before firearms than it is now with.

As someone who actually practices this, no. There is negligible difference between the strongest and weakest person in a line when we fight in formation, what matters is discipline and knowing what to do, almost anyone is capable of getting the strength needed to do it. Meanwhile in a modern combat situation you have a ton of equipment to carry, you need to be able to help move your squad mates at a moments notice, handle moving through difficult terrain, need to be able to open things, etc, etc. Strength is a hell of a lot more important now than it ever has been for combat.

>>85076873
Napalm and napalm accessories

Lacking that, crossbows

https://youtu.be/eRtemWv_5cc?t=128

>>85076926
I don't have a problem with the idea of training the women and children. Just with the way the scene was delivered, which was a cringy agenda-pushing rah-rah yaaas queen slay shitfest. I barely even blinked, that's the level the show's at now.

That shit/food scene was unironically kino though

>>85076873
Until pikes could go through rings? arrows, it's why you can see the transition through the very big kite sheilds, to the flat topped transition shields and eventually the heaters as armour got more able to handle things.

>>85076865
>level a first world city with drones
>most of the enemy infantry was hidden in the metro tunnels
>oh boy, looks like you've wasted your resources and now it's time for infantry combat

>>85073358

>no right

They could so they did. Iraq should have been less or a pussy if they didn't want to get invaded.

"No right" my ass

>>85076865
Its funny that yousay that but history shows that with more advanced technology the sizes of armies increase and not decrease. Guns allowed armies to grow larger than they had been beforehand. Modern technology has allowed us to put armies of tens of millions of men in the field. What you are saying is incorrect.

>>85076926
>Swordfighting is about skill more so than muscular prowess.

And yet, men and women don't compete in Olympic fencing.

Don't get me wrong; in this scenario it's a good idea to train the women and prepare them for the event where they are the last line of defense, but it's probably unwise to send them all out on the front lines with the men. Women can fight, but they don't fight on equal terms with men.

>>85076688
>women are put on a pedestal period
precisely.
so you agree that the whole 'women have higher pain tolerance because childbirth' is utter bullshit, good to hear

>>85077079
There's also a lot more people in general.

We've massively downscaled army size since the 1800s.

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>>85072668
>enter thread
>see all this assblasting from feminists
>it aint me starts playing

>>85076876
Infantry are cleaners for the main actors in war, machines. Men are used to hold specific places of import and to make sure no one is lurking in recently bombed locales. That's AFTER they've bombed the place to shit and have ran through the area with vehicles.

Men were of course needed for the wars of the 20th century, I just think you're overstating their importance as individual actors with agency.

>>85076886
I mean, we can bring up the statistic about the amount of ammunition expended in previous wars that actually managed to hit a target, confirming the point that men had little to no impact in actual advances. Also don't think I'm saying that we don't need men to operate machines, that is a different matter.

>>85074238

She has a tighter body than I once thought

>>85076956
So have the women in medieval factories producing things for the war effort. Like the allies did in WW2.

>>85077090
yeah that's definitely not true, i'm pretty sure anyone could go through that actually
it sucks but it's not traumatizing

>>85075660
>>85075693

The Others (whitewalkers for you faggots) threaten every human being on the continent (and presumably beyond - the original Long Night effected the entire known world and according to lore was ended in Essos by Azor Azai) - not just the North.

Besides when a female population dwindles the male population will venture southward to find wives

>>85077084
Olympic fencing isn't really a swordfight like that. It's a totally different kettle of fish really.

>>85077121
>I just think you're overstating their importance as individual actors with agency.

You underestimate it, there's a reason that basically everyone that is remotely successful encourages independent action at all levels. Even the soviets who had a very different style of it encouraged it in their own way despite their doctrine being built around the idea that the troops wouldn't have the know how to do it because it was designed during WW2.

>>85076985
>Meanwhile in a modern combat situation you have a ton of equipment to carry

Alright I really need to address this specific agenda because it's swamped the entire discussion. It's very few armies and militias that require their men to carry such inordinate weight with them everywhere, they are the EXCEPTION to the rule. Most carry relatively light equipment with them; the essentials. Stop with your myopic view that only western wealthy western armies exist.

>>85077067
You can't just invade a country without a casus belli. Haven't you ever played Crusader Kings?

>>85077216
We talk from a NATO/CN/RU perspective because these are the ones that are effective. If it was somehow comparable to not carry this kind of kit it would be worth discussing.

>>85077121
>That's AFTER they've bombed the place to shit and have ran through the area with vehicles.

>bomb a place to bits
>send armor alone, without infantry support
>gets taken out by anti-tank weapons fired from trenches or ruins
MILITARY GENIUS

>>85077079
Size of army has NOTHING to do with technology and has everything to do with Napoleon changing the way wars were waged - initiating peasantry and
general kin into the ranks rather than paid conscripts, it has been an upward trend from then.

>>85077055
That's unconventional warfare, if the aggressor was particularly unethical then he could leave the country a bombed shitheap and leave. Shooting any immigrants from said country on sight, technically that aggressor would win.

>>85077111
I love the smell of flagrant yeast infections in the morning.

>>85077216
Western armies are more like hobby armies anyways. They're not there because of a necessity so the hires arent made based on necessity either. If women want to work in military, who gives a shit.

>>85072668
>zombies
>dead bodies become more zombies
>have useless cannon fodder that will only die
>thus increasing the number of zombies unnecessarily

>>85077298
What could infantry do that modern artillery/aerial power could not? You know how precise and lethal most bombs are nowadays?

>>85077295

My point was that international 'rights' don't exist... everyone is a killer and no one needs a reason to do anything

>>85077104
Except modern methods of production allowed us to arm more soldiers than previously. Disregarding the fact that we have a larger population modern methods of warfare and farming means we can equip more of the population for longer periods of time than we could ever before. Any society with a "warrior" caste is one with a very small military compared to the general population.

>>85077111
paint it black is superior anyway

>>85077354
and it's been proven every fucking time NATO decides to try winning a war with just air power that it doesn't fucking work. They REALLY wanted to prove it could in Yugoslaiva and in the end they still relied on boots on the ground and the limited scope of it early on meant they wasted an insane amount of time bombing decoys.

>>85077308
>leave the country a bombed shitheap and leave
gaza strip

Warfare general

>>85076939
What drives you to want to dispel that sort of thinking? It seems like an unusual thing to focus on.

I see more commonalities between killers/soldiers/warriors throughout history than I see differences desu. Less and less in their circumstances but definitely in the mindsets they start and proceed with. I wouldn't want to become one myself but I suspect I could slip into the role without too much trouble if necessary. On account of being built for violence, if not for war. :^)

>>85077296
So you think their efficiency is directly correlated to how much their grunts can carry on their backs? Not logistical expertise? Not technological supremacy?

>>85077481
A strategic studies lecturer once said. If you took a modern soldier and threw him on a Napoleonic field he'd have no idea what to do. Take a Napoleonic soldier and put him on a modern battlefield and he'd understand.

>>85076413
The point is everyone needs to be prepared to fight, and armed to do so - because it's going to be a defensive war and farms/production centers will inevitably be on the lines as the forces of man are pushed back.

There is also the fact that lands to the South are hostile (negating any food/supply deliveries from the South), and it's winter - meaning there is going to be a meagre harvest anyway and less mouths to feed is always better.

Mobilizing and arming an entire populace just allows an effective defense in depth - and it also means John Snow's butt isn't wide open if the Southerners come up for a invasion before the winter becomes truly shit

>>85077157
But they will. He talked about mining the dragon glass and making weapons of it.

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>>85072668
Why don't they just craft thousands of Valyrian steel-tipped arrows, and defeat the white walkers with archery?

>>85077498
The amount of kit they have and their ability to use it, keep it with them and still put out the explosive force they do is a very, very key part of their success yes. Turkish troops have those same advantages but are far far less effective.

>>85077354
Actually hold a place and eliminate the enemy without wasting a lot of resources bombing at random.
I thought it was common sense not to send the armor unprotected by infantry regardless of how ''precise'' you think your bombs are.
Infantry anti-tank weapons are pretty scary nowadays.

>>85077121
Right, so you're an armchair reddit general.
For some reason you think most modern combat happens at grenade-throwing range, don't realize that infantry have to be strong as fuck just to function as expected, or understand how territorial advances in war even fucking happen.
Could you at least make an effort to look like you know what you're talking about?

>>85077157
Or have the old, sick, or feeble do it They need absolutely everyone that can hold a weapon holding a weapon.

>>85077216
>I'm fucking retarded, the post
Most militaries require it. Canada, UK, France, Germany, Australia, Russia, et al. Pogs aren't expected to because they're not fucking grunts.
Being wealthy has fuckall to do with what's on your back, and different countries have different needs from their infantry. The Nepalese pack heavy despite massive terrain issues simply because vehicular travel is a bitch in the region. Serb infantry is on the lighter side because they have no need or purpose for doing much hard travel.
Tents, shovels, mess kits, rations, load bearing gear, ammo, clothes, sleeping gear, water, flashlights all add up in weight fast, and none of it is particularly expensive.
>>85077321
>Spent the last century in conflict
>Hobby military
Okay.
>>85077354
What is:
>Korea
>Vietnam
>Lybia
>Czechoslovakia
>Yugoslavakia
>Ukraine
>Afghanistan
>Iraq
>Tunisia
>Afghanistan(Russia)
>Syria
>WW2
>WW1
And literally every other armed conflict?
Why do you think the goal is always total annihilation? Why do you think bombs are suddenly more powerful now than in the past, when the only real advances have been guidance systems?

You do know JDAMs are literally leftovers from WW2-Vietnam unguided bombs with a guidance kit stapled onto it, right?

>>85077520
Why? Surely they'd be equally confused. If anything the modern soldier might have done a bunch of reading about the Napoleonic Wars and have a pretty good idea.

>>85077481
The only common thing they have is that they're willing to fight and die for a cause. That's where the similarities end; contextually they are as different as can be considering the circumstances of how they're trained and compensated for their activities.

>>85077434
Israel, right next door.

>>85077433
Dude, NATO can win any conventional war in a weeked. The problem is THEY'RE NOT WAGING CONVENTIONAL WARS. Such with the US in the middle east, they are occupying land and setting up satellite states, this is an entirely different matter than ordinary warfare.

If we take conventional warfare as taking out the opponents military infrastructure and arsenal, then in most cases it can be done in a day. See israel when it had a conflict with surrounding arab states for instance, took out 3 planes in one of its neighbor countries and crippled its entire military.

Infantry are only used in the current day (by powerful countries) to act as neo imperialists, securing their interests in that country.

>>85077308
It has EVERYTHING to do with technology. Farming techniques and technology allowed us to over produce food which allows us to use less of our population on food production and more can be used in the army and production of other goods. It requires an extremely efficient state that very few ancient societies could create to train and equip the common man. This is why so many ancient people had a dedicated aristocracy trained to fight. Firearms allowed for the easy, fast and cheap creation of armies from a class of people that were once used to feed the warrior caste.

Napoleon was also not the first to use such armies. It was a rising trend across Europe for centuries because equipping an army of peasants with guns is actually cheaper than equipping an army in armour etc.

>>85077750
>Israel, right next door.
still has to have infantry because it turns out leveling a shithole doesn't stop the inhabitants from trying to kill you

>>85077758
If you're the guy earlier who was talking about Pike formations, would you elaborate on earlier vs Later Swiss Pike Formations.

So far as I can see, by and large the difference between earlier and later formations came down to superior discipline leading to better mobility and multi-directional pike employment, that and much better pikes.

>>85077705
The kind of chaos of the battlefield has a lot of fundemental similarities and are in many ways the same. the napoleonic soldier knows gunfire, artillery, explosions and chaos. a modern soldier has never had to deal with it without the same kind of direct links you usually have, the structure of the battle is far different to everything he's trained. Napoleon's man has a lot of fundamental knowledge and understanding, our man has a lot of specialist knowledge.

>>85077750
>Dude, NATO can win any conventional war in a weeked

You GROSSLY overestimate how easy it is to actually attack a country. If you try to be gung ho and do it quickly you're in for a very, very, very, bloody nose.

Even outdated SAMs are a ridiculous threat, even if you run SEAD operations. And what the fuck is your concept of warfare, warfare is a political act, jesus christ if you want to armchair general at least read your fucking clauswitz.

>>85077750
>Willing to fight die for a cause
Jesus fuck, no. It's because it's a paycheck with benefits nine times of ten.
>NATO
You mean the US and France? Because we're the only NATO members that actually get shit done.
>Infantry are mostly used to locate, track, and do boot work in modern war
ftfy.
>>85077758
You do realize that it happened way before firearms, right? Mongolia did it, Rome did it, England did it to a lesser extent, Russia did it, Spain did it, Italy did it. "Common man army" isn't anything fucking new.
>>85077804
This. Bombs don't secure areas, determine friend from foe, hold areas worth not levelling, and most importantly, doesn't completely buttfuck any hope you have of logistics because you bombed out all the fucking roads.

>>85076471
I'm sorry but >>85076562
has the right idea.
Personal infantry equipment nowadays in a combat zone looks like
Armor (IBA/IOTV, Etc) 20-30lbs
Load Bearing gear
Helmet
Night Vision
Assault Pack or Ruck - depending on mission
8-14 mags, 4-6 Hand Grenades (Frag, Smoke, Diversionary, incendiary, also including Pop Flares), 200-400 rounds of General Purpose Machine Gun Ammo, an Anti-Tank Munition (AT-4, M72 LAW - these are issued as a munition or round, not like a normal weapon)
Personal Radio
Knive
Lights
Food
etc

The Western Infantryman carries more gear than any other fighter in history, and it's getting to the point now that it's affecting attrition, because soldiers are getting back issues due to it. We're right on the peak/beyond of what a human being can safely carry for extended duration/difficult environments.

>>85077912
SEAD is a lot more effective now than it was twenty or even ten years ago, but it does require an absolutely insane amount of coordination with various air assets, and losses are always expected.
The USMC and AF's recent testing of the F-35 is extremely promising, though.

>>85077804
Israel is not a good example because it's an enclave with hostile elements literally on its doorstep. It's almost like an occupying force, hence the "infantry" are more like a hyper militarized police force.

>>85077758
No, it didn't have anything to do with technological innovation - unless you're using the syllogistic logic that just because men have used technology, any phenomena then on is a result of technology. It had to do with policy and yes NAPOLEON did popularize it with his "people's army". Keyword, popularize - many others may have used it in the past but they didn't predicate a trend, Napoleon did.

>>85077888
The much better pikes thing is actually pretty critical. Before them men in armour were still ridiculously hard to actually kill if they didn't act totally retarded. The arms race between weapons and armour is a hugely defining aspect of what tactics were used until like, the 1800s maybe. Not to say it's not still a key element, but it's not quite as all defining.

>>85077992
>Western

Exception to the rule. Already addressed this above.

>>85077993
Yeah but we say this every time, real combat is far more chaotic than we ever anticipate, and of course ground based radar and anti-sead techniques are always coming along well.

The only winning move is to not fly over hostile land.

>>85077913
>Jesus fuck, no. It's because it's a paycheck with benefits nine times of ten.

Alright, what am I supposed to derive from this considering the subject of our argument? That men are built to be self serving? Not built for war? Ok!

>>85076413
I bet a girl could beat you in a fight

>>85078046
One thing that defined earlier vs later Phalanxes is something that Philip of Macedon discovered:

You don't need big shields when you have long, effective pikes. I think that probably opened the door to the flexibility that later made the Swiss Pike formation far more difficult to outflank than traditional Phalanxes which generally had to support the front of the formation to be effective.

>>85077912
The US destroyed Iraq's army in a week without losing a single tank. The conventional part is over, thus comes the unconventional where you CAN'T win unless you eradicate all native peoples in that area.

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>>85073237
yeah but then we make propaganda movies about how it made them feel bad

>>85077913
And did you notice I said it was something VERY FEW ancient societies could pull off? Rome and China and the best examples of this. Only they could afford to train, arm and pay large scale professional armies. Spain, England etc as you said only managed to pull this off once they had reached a more modern style of fighting. This was because of their technological advances, China and Rome only managed it before because they were already massive empires with a large enough population and rich enough government. Tribal societies like the Mongols are a completely different matter. Everyone in such societies need to know how to ride a horse and shoot a bow and arrow, settled societies need an agricultural base.

>>85078193
But that was also the armour vs weapons race once more. The armour and helmets were so much better protected against arrows and shot that it was kinda okay to forego it.

Same reason the japanese didn't use shields during the Senoku era, they'd found armour that protected well enough that the big deployable shields were enough to cover the lighter armoured men.

>>85078033
>It's almost like an occupying force, hence the "infantry" are more like a hyper militarized police force.
how is this an important distinction if they still have to be physically capable to do their job?

anyways either you're going to continuously level a whole country and hope they don't have some way of delivering explosives to your doorstep or you're going to have to have physically capable soldiers weeding out your enemy at some point

>>85078205
Almost as if the Iraqi army had been really fucking cheap and didn't even buy useful ammo for their tanks and was massively dysfunctional like all the arab armies are. (well I can't really say anything about Iran's, but they all like proper NCO structure and the like which is a really big deal because the grunts don't trust the officers, etc.)

>>85078092
True, which is why modern SEAD relies on stand-off ewar before other assets even get close. It's still never been practiced in reality, but in sims the F-35 was able to achieve penetration and complete objectives in airspace covered by modern SAMs with fighter threats. Deets here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgLjNsB_hyM

You are very correct, though, flying over hot airspace is never lossless.

>>85078134
Fucking what? Are you literally autistic?

>>85078227
Wrong, wrong, partially wrong, and wrong.
It had almost everything to do with societal and cultural progression. Production always follows suit and vice-versa. The Mongolians stopped being tribal the moment Ghengis starting getting shit done, and everyone killed or you were worthless.

When war stopped being a thing you did as a political leader for fun, and became necessary for security, the doors opened.